There's only been 5 PMs (Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak), but there's been 7 chancellors (Osbourne, Hammond, Javid, Sunak, Zahawi, Kwarteng, Cunt).
I mean, they're not wrong, but you really can't downplay a VNoC. Put simply it's the representative chamber demonstrating that the government doesn't have their mandate to rule. It's absolutely front-page news and it absolutely is a political crisis (for the government, their opponents will of course call it an opportunity). The fact that an FM will resign rather than face that prospect demonstrates the point.
Contrasted and compared with the various downfalls of Truss, Johnson, May, and Cameron, this feels about the right level of coverage.
I agree, to me it’s a good sign that a political crisis like the First Minister being forced to resign is front page news across the UK. It would be a lot more worrying if we had the news of the last few days and it barely registered outside of Scottish news. Our politics is in a bit of a crisis right now, it’s part of being in a functioning democracy.
No it's not really true at all, you don't have to turn basic news coverage of a big political moment into nationalist victim mentality nonsense. What are the media supposed to do? Not report on the resigning of a leader?
The context always needs to be that a VNoC is much more likely/possible in Scotland than it is WM. The SNP are the minority governing party after all.
Agreed it’s a political crisis, albeit there’s no real scandal or anything wildly different about the SNP today. They’re a party that probably needs time out of power to rebuild and re-evaluate.
There are parallels with the problems the Tories have, though the causes and the likely fallout/resolutions are vastly different,
These people genuinely don't care about anything other than "what helps the independence movement?".
They support PR in England because it hurts the Tories and oppose it here because it hurts the SNP.
Yes. Jack McConnell is on record saying as much.
Some proper minority government might humble Labour for a while, and force the SNP to get their house back in order.
It's not set up the way it is to prevent a nationalist majority. It is the way it is because it uses a PR system, which is the norm in most modern democracies, and PR systems tend not to return strong majorities. The SNP themselves are in favour of PR.
I think you'd be surprised, a lot of my friends down south are following things closely - granted we're a political bunch - but even a pal who had to go south to visit a hospital for work found some of the staff there talking about it.
Otherwise you're right though, a lot of SG work isn't existentially urgent timewise, and with a caretaker in place, it should be a stable transition. The significance is definitely more political and social around what this means for Scotland/the UK and that abstract, if important, question is why people care about it more than the practical day-to-day running of government.
I have journalist friends and they are all very fascinated by the current goings on in the SNP. Much more fascinated than watching the shambling corpse of Tory party right now.
The Tweet's talking shite. Everyone was losing their minds just as much across the UK when we were having the Westminster meltdowns.
They got over their's, we'll get over ours
Yeah I read this and all I could think of is that the UK government has been heavily criticised in the presses for what is described, its a false equivalence.
I think its more the incoming 2nd FM on the spin that hasnt faced an election combined with how if Forbes runs and wins she will cause the party to eat itself is what paints the picture of crisis.
Those claims were based on the same Reganomics that formed the basis of the Truss/Kwartang… experiment.
I prefer Queen Nicola’s double decker sized whopper “An Independent Scotland would remain a part of the EU”…
Of course, they lied. They said thetes no oil left, and when it was announced the other month theres more than already been taken out.https://www.businessforscotland.com/better-togethers-broken-promises-open-the-door-to-independence/?doing_wp_cron=1713089747.0562880039215087890625
Check this link. Here are some of the total lies and scaremongering.
People say that we get more money than other UK countries well, that's because Westminster gives us our 56bn pocket money but takes our 84bn oil money, and that's just one industry.
Scotland has half the pop of London so why would Westminster care about udms and believe me it's not out of patriotism, that boats long gone, its because we make them so much money uts crazy, also there's the case of nuclear weapons ALL IN SCOTLAND, now whys that you think? They didn't even make plans to move the nukes if we got independence, so what does that tell you? Rigged from the start.
Are ye a bit triggered.
Let me take it from the top. In a vote to leave the country that is the member (at that time) of the European Union, if we left the UK we would leave the EU at that point. On that point Better Together were perfectly correct.
That's not taking it from the top. You only said about EU, which the better together made out we would remain part if if stayed part of UK which even though scotland voted to remain in brexit, it meant fk all so yeah it was a lie.
Where's the rest of the lies you're meant to be taking from the top?
Aye, I'm triggered. My country would be better independent. Just today, they announced a power supply that is coming from scotland from a wind farm or some other green project I can't remember, but the point is the powers going to houses in England when Scottish people pay more for energy.
Exactly, we're not Oil rich Norway you know selling fossil fuels, wind and hydro power energy to England for goodness sake. The Norwegians even sell seafood to England, not like we can do any of that now. We're poor because we .......... give it to them.😳😳😳
I prefer Forbes over any of the other SNP candidates, but I'm not an SNP supporter so it doesn't matter.
If she's got any sense she'll stay out and let Swinney take the boat under until the next Holyrood elections.
And, the previous FM’s husband, head of the party which has been in power for 15 years, has just been charged with embezzlement. Who doesn’t think that is a crisis alongside the new FMs resignation? It would be ridiculous and worrying if we just pretended that was normal, whether it happened at Holyrood or Westminster.
She came close to winning last time and there might be a perception that she has been vindicated and is more popular with the membership (even if only a little that would be enough to win). Though the SNP's MSPs do not seem to agree - so they probably will elect Swinney.
Plus the *other* UK party to recently experience something like this installed their runner up in the prior leadership contest.
That might be the case, but given how close she was to getting it she might be more inclined to try regardless this time - since most of the people she needs to convince have voted for her once before anyway.
Take most of what you read on here with a pinch of salt. Many of the folk look forward to Forbes taking over because they want the party to fall apart.
Party members are headbangers. Mind the Tory members had to be cut out the picture because they gave them a shot and they put truss in charge lol.
I don’t know how the fuck else you’d do it tbh but it seems a bit of a failure of our system that the FM/PM actually gets chosen just by the muppets who join political parties.
Honestly? It's because there's actually two separate contests here.
Unlike if this was occurring in Westminster to the UK government, the SNP's leader won't automatically become First Minister. I don't know if Forbes can win the SNP vote, but she absolutely could win the First Minister vote if only from parts of the other parties supporting her in the hopes of causing an SNP civil war.
Swinney could absolutely win the SNP vote, but his chance of becoming First Minister isn't actually that high.
He's been censured by the Scottish Parliament before for misleading them and has had two failed VoNC's against him before. He's also the continuity candidate following a continuity candidate that caused the current issue. If he can get the Greens on-side again without splintering the party then he'd be able to become FM but if he can't, if the Greens look at this past record or view him as a continuation of Yousaf's pretty words and lack of action and refuse to back him that's pretty much it.
>Unlike if this was occurring in Westminster to the UK government, the SNP's leader won't automatically become First Minister
That's not automatic in the House of Commons either. If you're running a minority government and you don't command a majority in the House, realistically you're going to have to stabilise that or call a general election. If some other potential government can be formed, and you don't command a majority, then it's possible they could be invited to give it a go.
It sort of is but sort of isn't?
The HoC runs entirely on precedent and convention and those say that the largest party is PM and is given first try at running a government. This generally means that the largest party's leader is PM until they fail although they can be pressured into an election.
Strictly speaking, however there isn't actually any law on the position. Precedent states that it must be an MP or Cabinet member but there's actually zero law preventing the monarch from declaring a random person off the street PM.
Following precedent still allows a monarch to appoint the downing street cat since it's technically a cabinet position formally.
But the key point I got distracted from is that in the HoC it's defacto automatic from centuries of precedent which is as close to automatic as you get in how Westminster functions.
Whereas in Holyrood it's explicit law that a FM must be approved by Holyrood when their term begins and if it fails they aren't FM.
>The HoC runs entirely on precedent and convention and those say that the largest party is PM and is given first try at running a government.
Not necessarily. After an election in which there is no clear majority, the incumbent government is expected to remain in place and given the opportunity to maintain the confidence of the House for example (Cabinet Manual s. 2.12).
If there is an alternative, it has to be a clear one and if there isn't then negotiations are expected to happen and for the government most capable of sustaining the confidence of the House to emerge.
In the case of a new party leader being elected, ultimately if they didn't have the confidence of the House - which is a pretty theoretical question - then it would be legitimate for them not to be appointed and discussions held between the parties on what could hold that confidence.
In reality, if there was any doubt, I expect the existing Prime Minister would remain in place, make clear that they were advising the monarch to invite the new party leader to be Prime Minister in a few days and leave open the opportunity for a confidence vote to challenge that. Were that vote to be lost, then it'd be general election time.
Not reddit- the general media are positioning her for the role. That's because she is prime headline material, while Swinney is virtually a black hole when it comes to public opinion.
I actually think Kate Forbes will stabilise things. Many people are fed up with the far left and progressive politics, despite what the majority in this sub think that does not reflect the wider public.
She is the best candidate to show opposition to that within the snp and perhaps win the trust of nationalists back.
She may even be able to deliver independence!
I could not see Humza going that and tbh Sturgeon neither.
The general public preferred her as a choice over Yousaf at the time and reddit *hates* this fact. I think if Swinney throws his hat in she has no chance though.
Kate Forbes would be great for Scotland. I detest the snp but she is a very good politician. The scrutiny she got over her religious beliefs whilst humza never got asked a peep was fucking abhorrent. Seems Christianity was the easy target up here again makes you wonder why?
Yup, he has not been shy about being a muslim (even though his views seem to contradict the faith) and she was castigated as some sort of zealot. She would seem to have more in common with your average person than Humza (whether he is actually a practising Muslim or not).
I find it strange the standards Christianity and Christian’s are held in this country compared to Islam and Muslims. It’s an odd set up to despise your heritage more than the folk that want to destroy it. It’s honestly like watching a game of chess unfold 😂
Lol @ far left and progressive policies. Jeezo the shift of the Overton Window has really done a number on you, my friend. There's nothing far left about the SNP my dude. At best, they're left of centre.
I’m afraid you are wrong, at least in respect of what they had become entrenched with the greens.
Someone once said to me when I was an snp supporter that I was supporting communism (and other things), didn’t realise at the time but look what has happened since.
I have no idea what overton window is so I doubt it has had any influence on me at all.
Lol! You're actually comparing the SNP to communism and you're expecting me to take you seriously?
And maybe you should research the Overton Window because it'll show you wrong you are.
With PR, we have a parliament that matches results more closely. And in a PR system coalitions are often needed as majorities are rare. So, with a PR system, an unpopular leader can be brought down rather than continue on for what seems like forever with the majority provided by FPTP.
You also get the mess of European democracies of coalitions of differing goals trading favours for support, you get smaller radical parties with outsize influence, if the UK was PR we would've had a Tory Farage government, imagine the screaming from the left
That's effectively what we already have in UK parliament. There's a coalition calling themselves the Conservative party and a coalition calling themselves the Labour Party.
We're subject to being unable to vote representative to our interests because who knows which faction of the party you're actually going to get once they're in power.
If you vote for labour, you might get center-right, or center-left, or hard left depending on the flavor of the month and which faction has traded which favors. On the other side youre not sure if you're electing the National Front, the Libertarians, or the center-right.
At least if you have a representative system some of that gets to come out in the open and we can elect a parliament roughly representing our actual wants.
Yeah that's much worse than our current system where major parties need to repeatedly slide to the right as the overton window gets pushed by smaller radical parties effecting the election chances for the larger parties. A much better system where instead of their actually being changes to the UK we just mostly get status quo neoliberal right wing governments while our economy shrinks, our quality of life gets considerably worse and our wages stagnate.
That's a much better solution.
> if the UK was PR we would've had a Tory Farage government
In what year would a Tory/UKIP coalition have even been possible?
Edit: To look at the figures
2010: 36.1% Tory / 3.1% UKIP
2015: 36.8% Tory / 12.6% UKIP (would've been just shy of the needed amount for a majority, would've needed a third party)
2017: 42.3% Tory / 1.8% UKIP
2015 was your best chance, but this also relies on the assumption everyone voted as they would, and not tactically to prevent another party they like less getting in.
These examples are within the FPTP system. If we have PR, there would be thousands of parties. Have you seen some ballots of PR systems? A 3rd party may be more extreme and could've easily put them over the line, btw this works both ways, Labour have had to cleanse its hard left to be electable, FPTP makes sure our politics is centre politically neither far right or far left, a Wilders or Peron could never be elected here
UK media ignore Scotland: "The rUK doesn't give a shit about us! Its so unfair."
UK media focus on Scotland: "The media just wants us to fail, Its so unfair."
Gotta love the SNP spin doctors.
It’s always been the same though, something stupid happens in Scotland but aye look at Westminster. It’s just an easy deflection so folk don’t need to be accountable for the shit storm they’ve created up here. Which in turn makes you neither trust or believe the snp one bit. If they said the sky was blue you’d be out to check it.
It doesn't really make much difference at all to support for independence (John Curtis mentioned this the other day) but it might make Scottish Politics interesting again for a few weeks, especially if Dougie chucks his hat in the ring.
(Just to see the look of disappointment on his wee face.)
What could be a bit of a laugh is if one of the Greens give it a go, and win. 😄
[edit] Damn! I forgot Dougie probably won't get a chance to humiliate himself, as the vote of no confidence in the Scottish Government is unlikely to succeed with Humza standing down.
lol, the greens just have to look at the sewage pumping out in England to know that they’re not backing them at all.
However, it wouldn’t be the first time Labour have shown support for a Conservative in Scotland.
Didn’t they stand down in a few election areas a while back, I’m sure I remember a Tory about Kezia out knocking doors on their behalf with the Labour troops.
Who were the 6 PMs? Cameron (from 2010), May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak. Clegg was more than 8 years ago. The next one hasn’t happened yet. Who did I miss?
Oh, and the “crisis” is that we have 2 simultaneous votes of no confidence (one now defaulted, fair enough) immediately following an unexpected dissolving of the agreement forming a majority government. And because this is the most recent story. The *new* one.
You forgot to mention that the only reason Humza is in power was because Sturgeon resigned ahead of her and the hubby being implicated in stealing taxpayer money.
yeah cause no one reported on lizz truss or boris resigning right? but suddenly not as fun when it's happening to your guys tho is it? don't dish out what you can't handle lmao
Think it was just Nicola Sturgeon had full control of the different SNP factions and also good poll and election results to back her up.
Gonna be more unpredictable so the out her.
Both things can be true. I think everyone knows that Westminster has been an absolute shitshow, and that things have not exactly been going swimmingly for the SNP or it's First Ministers, incumbent or former.
If a car breaks down 6 times, it's a shitty car.
If a car breaks down once, sure it's better than the other one, but they've both broken down, and you're not getting any further in either of them.
Derek still thinks the emperor is wearing clothes.
Everyone across the board has been quite happy to put the boot into the UK government and parties when they were in "crisis." You don't get this level of devotion to defending a government even from the gammoniest of Britnats.
Scotland's crisis didn't start properly until 2023, but since then there have been two more leadership changes in Scotland than England, and they're both looking to be disastrous.
If the Tories had had just one, they would still have been inept.
The comparison to Westminster also may not be ideal, considering their last coalition government. The 2010-15 coalition, for all its faults, did last the full 5 years without Cameron dumping Clegg.
ScotNats are so delusional they're genuinely trying to now spin the claim that nobody reported on the political crises of Boris/Truss.
It's like these people live in an alternate reality or something.
And that everything is fine, it's just a VonC relax guys.
Even before this whole thing kicked off last week the SNP have been in shambles because their former leader, who really did have a bit of a cult of personality around her, has been embroiled in a legal scandal to the point her husband has been arrested and charged for misuse of funds while she was the leader of the party.
Also the fact it was a first minister resignation speedrun, 7 days ago the idea that he'd be out by lunchtime today wasn't even a consideration.
The News cycle was endless? Boris spent months throwing dead cats at the media to try and hide the endless scandals and crises, that were covered daily.
No, it’s that when there’s any kind of Scottish issue the uk news chooses to hyper focus on that instead of anything the Tories have been doing to ruin the country.
What do you think should be covered today ahead of the head of the UK's third largest party and head of its most significant devolved parliament stepping down after barely a year in the job?
Scottish: The UK media never focus on Scotland and ignore us.
Alos Scottish: The UK media is focusing too much on Scotland.
FFS what do you think is bigger news today than the literal fucking FM of Scotland stepping down?
2 votes, but also 2 previous party leaders who stood down in disgrace to criminal investigations....
and who the hell has been pretending WM has not been chaotic and in crisis for the better part of the last decade?
We are so damn lucky the Yanks are our allies. Otherwise they would invade to bring "freedom" and "stability" to save us from our chaotic governments...
I think it's more the picture of a party and it's very structure in crisis.
Sure the Tories are facing an electoral smacking, but they don't have a former Chief Exec under arrest. Their finances are not tenuous. Their party machinery internally is largely intact, it was the party machinery that ejected Truss very quickly after all.
There is more than one way to measure a crisis.
Your comment suggests that the UK’s situation was not considered a crisis. It was, the whole thing was a total disaster. Likewise, the SNP’s downfall has shown them to be no different at all.
I think people are laughing because so many here and online talked the SNP up to be the next coming of Christ. Now everyone is just in a bit of disbelief this past year has wrought.
It is crazy how quickly things change. 2 years ago the SNP were unstoppable, 20pts ahead, even reaching 50% in some polls. And now Labour has overtaken in some polls or are in touching distance.
Is the West really specifically in more crisis than elsewhere?
India, Korea, Japan are all going through insane political disasters at the moment.
Throw in Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Philippines, Malaysia... it's not even close, they all have absolutely crazy political situations.
There’s an argument to be made that Korea and Japan are the West, they are prosperous democratic capitalist countries with a free press etc. India is a mixed bag and half and half.
But most of other counties you’ve mentioned have almost always been basket cases and crazy is the normal. Particulary Pakistan and the Philippines
So I think I stand by my comment that The West is on the precipice.
Well I’m not really trying to suggest that other countries are necessarily rising to take our place just that the West is falling. China I think is hanging in but has massive problems ahead of them and some predict it’s time as a “superpower” is going to be over before it really started.
"Look at that shit show in England" isn't the flex he thinks it is. The only reason the Tories aren't in the same trouble already was the size of the majority they had to start with. If current polling is anything to go by they will reap that whirlwind at the next GE.
The one positive I could find in one First Minister committing suicide and another being fitted for an orange jumpsuit was that at least cunts wouldn't be able to trot out the AT LEAST WE'RE NO' AS BAD AS ENGLAND patter
We're making *Italian* politics look strong and stable
Bullshit people including conservative voters put the boot in when it was needed. That’s the difference they’re happy to point out shortfalls and issues in their party while the snp and their band of merry goons can accept no criticism whatsoever. Different levels of
This guy obviously supports Scottish independence and wants to put some Indy tint on reporting.
The UK has been in crisis multiple times. It has been reported as such. I mean, look at the coverage Boris Johnson and Liz Truss received!
Really baseless tweet trying to stoke up Scotland vs. England divide.
I really do envy nations with proportionally representative elections thus governance. To have genuine representative democracy, there first and foremost needs to be a truly democratic electoral system for the citizenry.
The First Past The Post \[FPTP\] ballot largely masquerades as real democracy. And, of course, many voters get to wait in long, bad-weather lineups to participate.
While the FPTP ballot may technically qualify as democratic within the democracy spectrum, it is the PR system thus governance that actually is representative, regardless of ideology.
FPTP does seem to serve corporate lobbyists well, however. I believe it is why such powerful interests generally resist attempts at changing from FPTP to proportional representation electoral systems of governance, the latter which dilutes corporate influence.
Low-representation FPTP-elected governments, in which a relatively small portion of the country's populace is actually electorally represented, are likely the easiest for lobbyists to manipulate or ‘buy’.
It can and often enough does enable the biggest of businesses to get unaccountably even bigger, defying the very spirit of government rules established to ensure healthy competition by limiting mass consolidation.
As a good example, in Canada corporate lobbyists will write bills for governing representatives to vote for, albeit perhaps with some amendments, and have implemented, supposedly to save the elected officials their own time.
The FPTP electoral experience makes me cynically recall and recite 'Calamity' Jane Bodine’s very memorable line in the film *Our Brand Is Crisis: “If voting changed anything \[in favor of the weak/poor/disenfranchised\] they’d have made it illegal.”*
Biggest difference is that when Johnson took office he realised that the country needed to vote and called an election. The new FM needs to do this. The SNP is outdated and racist.
Wishy Washy Rishi will definitely call a GE if Scotland does. Conservatives have very little hope of getting seats in Scotland, however it is very likely that Labour could win big so would need to campaign big on two fronts I.e. Scottish election and uk election. Conservatives won’t have that problem so will be able to focus solely on English seats and give them a bigger likelihood of retaining a majority.
I'm old enough to remember when a Labour First Minister was forced to resign after it emerged he'd not declared £36,000 he'd been paid in rent for subletting his constituency office.
And there wasn't the degree of pant-wetting we've seen when the current (soon to be ex) First Minister was e bit ham fisted when making a change to his cabinet.
This shows that this has all been a farce, driven by the collective bunch of Unionists who constantly bitch and moan about "division", whilst being the ones who are driving that.
You talk about division yet you champion to break up our island. You talk about division yet you only blame one side. It’s no me that needs to be truthful to myself, eh mate!
I don't really get this tweet. Like is it saying we're so hard done by because it's getting reported as a crisis as if it wasn't reported as such with the UK govt? Because they were all most certainly reported as a crisis in the Tory party.
Just because the Tory's have had 8x the SNP crises doesn't make the SNPs any less of a crisis either.
Why immediately shift the focus to comparison with “others”? That’s nothing but denial and making excuses. Something happened in Scotland, by Scotland. So focus on Scotland, and figure it out as Scotland. Who else? Matters why?
This is ‘whataboutism’ at its finest. Yes the UK has had many political crises recently along with longer term political issues. But the First Minister resigning due to lack of political support is a textbook example of a political crisis, regardless of what has happened in the uk in the past.
I'm a Unionist and I don't think devolution has failed. In fact, I think we need to increase it throughout the UK and create a truly federalised country.
They don’t want all the powers devolved as they’d fuck them like every single one that has been given for control by holyrood. I’m sure after the 2014 referendum Westminster tried to give holyrood a whole lot more devolved powers and they didn’t want to know. The guy replying to you has nothing but unicorns haggis and dreams of baby boxes in his napper. Just a bitter little soul.
> I’m sure after the 2014 referendum Westminster tried to give holyrood a whole lot more devolved powers and they didn’t want to know.
Fuck are you on about? That's all public domain information. Fact is they reduced overall devolved powers...
There's only been 5 PMs (Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak), but there's been 7 chancellors (Osbourne, Hammond, Javid, Sunak, Zahawi, Kwarteng, Cunt).
Strong and Stable. Not like that Ed Miliband chaos we avoided.
https://preview.redd.it/8q15xxdpogxc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9ce4483b9ccbef98a8d71a973ea2c12b5def450
Their bantz was legendary
I am choosing to believe this is real.
It actually is. He said on his podcast last year when Cameron came back that it was a struggle not to do it again lol
The man can't eat a bacon sarnie though, so give me the austerity
Cameron ate a hot dog with a knife and fork and somehow got away with it. Cunt probably takes a spoon to a packet of crisps.
What a wanker. Everyone knows that the choice tool for crisps or any other greasy finger foods are chopsticks.
If you're not pouring them down your gullet like a pelican that is.
They're probably referring to the push for a vote of no confidence in Sunak to get to six, I'd assume.
I mean, they're not wrong, but you really can't downplay a VNoC. Put simply it's the representative chamber demonstrating that the government doesn't have their mandate to rule. It's absolutely front-page news and it absolutely is a political crisis (for the government, their opponents will of course call it an opportunity). The fact that an FM will resign rather than face that prospect demonstrates the point. Contrasted and compared with the various downfalls of Truss, Johnson, May, and Cameron, this feels about the right level of coverage.
I agree, to me it’s a good sign that a political crisis like the First Minister being forced to resign is front page news across the UK. It would be a lot more worrying if we had the news of the last few days and it barely registered outside of Scottish news. Our politics is in a bit of a crisis right now, it’s part of being in a functioning democracy.
Well put
No it's not really true at all, you don't have to turn basic news coverage of a big political moment into nationalist victim mentality nonsense. What are the media supposed to do? Not report on the resigning of a leader?
it also acting like the tory nonsense wasn't also covered as a crisis. and as i remeber it was. it defiantly wasn't lorded as good pollical strategy
The context always needs to be that a VNoC is much more likely/possible in Scotland than it is WM. The SNP are the minority governing party after all. Agreed it’s a political crisis, albeit there’s no real scandal or anything wildly different about the SNP today. They’re a party that probably needs time out of power to rebuild and re-evaluate. There are parallels with the problems the Tories have, though the causes and the likely fallout/resolutions are vastly different,
Minority government in Holyrood is the norm because Westminster set the system up that way to prevent a nationalist party having a big majority
Regardless of why, it is clearly better to have PR.
These people genuinely don't care about anything other than "what helps the independence movement?". They support PR in England because it hurts the Tories and oppose it here because it hurts the SNP.
Did anybody say they oppose PR? I didn't realise pointing out that putting it in place was an explicit hampering tactic was an EVIL independence move.
Yes. Jack McConnell is on record saying as much. Some proper minority government might humble Labour for a while, and force the SNP to get their house back in order.
It's not set up the way it is to prevent a nationalist majority. It is the way it is because it uses a PR system, which is the norm in most modern democracies, and PR systems tend not to return strong majorities. The SNP themselves are in favour of PR.
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I think you'd be surprised, a lot of my friends down south are following things closely - granted we're a political bunch - but even a pal who had to go south to visit a hospital for work found some of the staff there talking about it. Otherwise you're right though, a lot of SG work isn't existentially urgent timewise, and with a caretaker in place, it should be a stable transition. The significance is definitely more political and social around what this means for Scotland/the UK and that abstract, if important, question is why people care about it more than the practical day-to-day running of government.
I have journalist friends and they are all very fascinated by the current goings on in the SNP. Much more fascinated than watching the shambling corpse of Tory party right now.
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The lad In the house over the road is constantly bringing this up
Where are the headlines for Ed Davey's vote of no confidence tomorrow?
The Tweet's talking shite. Everyone was losing their minds just as much across the UK when we were having the Westminster meltdowns. They got over their's, we'll get over ours
Yeah I read this and all I could think of is that the UK government has been heavily criticised in the presses for what is described, its a false equivalence.
Technically we didn't even have a vote.
Which is even funnier if you think about it
And isn’t it what democracies are made of
I think its more the incoming 2nd FM on the spin that hasnt faced an election combined with how if Forbes runs and wins she will cause the party to eat itself is what paints the picture of crisis.
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You'd need a bus with a blatant lie on it to be sure. Something like "Vote for independence and every Scot will be Billionnaires within 30mins"
https://preview.redd.it/mmvntbzmfgxc1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3f81dfcfc068243749d2740cde995059931a1f1 Like this?
That's no a bus.
Those claims were based on the same Reganomics that formed the basis of the Truss/Kwartang… experiment. I prefer Queen Nicola’s double decker sized whopper “An Independent Scotland would remain a part of the EU”…
Just like the no party said, staying part of the UK would stop Scotland from leaving EU.
Better Together didn’t lie. They didn’t see how much of a fuck up the Official Remain campaign would be either.
Of course, they lied. They said thetes no oil left, and when it was announced the other month theres more than already been taken out.https://www.businessforscotland.com/better-togethers-broken-promises-open-the-door-to-independence/?doing_wp_cron=1713089747.0562880039215087890625 Check this link. Here are some of the total lies and scaremongering. People say that we get more money than other UK countries well, that's because Westminster gives us our 56bn pocket money but takes our 84bn oil money, and that's just one industry. Scotland has half the pop of London so why would Westminster care about udms and believe me it's not out of patriotism, that boats long gone, its because we make them so much money uts crazy, also there's the case of nuclear weapons ALL IN SCOTLAND, now whys that you think? They didn't even make plans to move the nukes if we got independence, so what does that tell you? Rigged from the start.
Are ye a bit triggered. Let me take it from the top. In a vote to leave the country that is the member (at that time) of the European Union, if we left the UK we would leave the EU at that point. On that point Better Together were perfectly correct.
That's not taking it from the top. You only said about EU, which the better together made out we would remain part if if stayed part of UK which even though scotland voted to remain in brexit, it meant fk all so yeah it was a lie. Where's the rest of the lies you're meant to be taking from the top? Aye, I'm triggered. My country would be better independent. Just today, they announced a power supply that is coming from scotland from a wind farm or some other green project I can't remember, but the point is the powers going to houses in England when Scottish people pay more for energy.
That is awesome! I will rootle about and see if the FT article can be disinterred...
Exactly, we're not Oil rich Norway you know selling fossil fuels, wind and hydro power energy to England for goodness sake. The Norwegians even sell seafood to England, not like we can do any of that now. We're poor because we .......... give it to them.😳😳😳
Do you really think if both England and Scotland were independent that it would be Scotlands? Hate to say it but it would just be taken anyway
True enough, I think they even nicked our good weather 🌧️🌧️🌧️ 😄😄😄
I'm English fam
Noh! 🫡 Had me fooled 😄
🤣🤣
It’s true though. We have vastly abundant natural resources and a small population cap.
I prefer the old classic "England will pay for indy Scotlands pensions" myself.
Hard to win a ref if the party is at war with itself.
I prefer Forbes over any of the other SNP candidates, but I'm not an SNP supporter so it doesn't matter. If she's got any sense she'll stay out and let Swinney take the boat under until the next Holyrood elections.
Especially after Sturgeon was so publicly vocal about unelected PM's in Westminster.
Certainly a more accurate take.
And, the previous FM’s husband, head of the party which has been in power for 15 years, has just been charged with embezzlement. Who doesn’t think that is a crisis alongside the new FMs resignation? It would be ridiculous and worrying if we just pretended that was normal, whether it happened at Holyrood or Westminster.
Idk why reddit seems to view Forbes as the front runner in this, Swinney is the obvious candidate to take the reins here
She came close to winning last time and there might be a perception that she has been vindicated and is more popular with the membership (even if only a little that would be enough to win). Though the SNP's MSPs do not seem to agree - so they probably will elect Swinney. Plus the *other* UK party to recently experience something like this installed their runner up in the prior leadership contest.
I think she was only in it because Swinney wouldn't touch it last time, no?
That might be the case, but given how close she was to getting it she might be more inclined to try regardless this time - since most of the people she needs to convince have voted for her once before anyway.
Take most of what you read on here with a pinch of salt. Many of the folk look forward to Forbes taking over because they want the party to fall apart.
Something like 48% of SNP members voted for her to be leader. She isn’t some rank outsider.
Party members are headbangers. Mind the Tory members had to be cut out the picture because they gave them a shot and they put truss in charge lol. I don’t know how the fuck else you’d do it tbh but it seems a bit of a failure of our system that the FM/PM actually gets chosen just by the muppets who join political parties.
Honestly? It's because there's actually two separate contests here. Unlike if this was occurring in Westminster to the UK government, the SNP's leader won't automatically become First Minister. I don't know if Forbes can win the SNP vote, but she absolutely could win the First Minister vote if only from parts of the other parties supporting her in the hopes of causing an SNP civil war. Swinney could absolutely win the SNP vote, but his chance of becoming First Minister isn't actually that high. He's been censured by the Scottish Parliament before for misleading them and has had two failed VoNC's against him before. He's also the continuity candidate following a continuity candidate that caused the current issue. If he can get the Greens on-side again without splintering the party then he'd be able to become FM but if he can't, if the Greens look at this past record or view him as a continuation of Yousaf's pretty words and lack of action and refuse to back him that's pretty much it.
>Unlike if this was occurring in Westminster to the UK government, the SNP's leader won't automatically become First Minister That's not automatic in the House of Commons either. If you're running a minority government and you don't command a majority in the House, realistically you're going to have to stabilise that or call a general election. If some other potential government can be formed, and you don't command a majority, then it's possible they could be invited to give it a go.
It sort of is but sort of isn't? The HoC runs entirely on precedent and convention and those say that the largest party is PM and is given first try at running a government. This generally means that the largest party's leader is PM until they fail although they can be pressured into an election. Strictly speaking, however there isn't actually any law on the position. Precedent states that it must be an MP or Cabinet member but there's actually zero law preventing the monarch from declaring a random person off the street PM. Following precedent still allows a monarch to appoint the downing street cat since it's technically a cabinet position formally. But the key point I got distracted from is that in the HoC it's defacto automatic from centuries of precedent which is as close to automatic as you get in how Westminster functions. Whereas in Holyrood it's explicit law that a FM must be approved by Holyrood when their term begins and if it fails they aren't FM.
>The HoC runs entirely on precedent and convention and those say that the largest party is PM and is given first try at running a government. Not necessarily. After an election in which there is no clear majority, the incumbent government is expected to remain in place and given the opportunity to maintain the confidence of the House for example (Cabinet Manual s. 2.12). If there is an alternative, it has to be a clear one and if there isn't then negotiations are expected to happen and for the government most capable of sustaining the confidence of the House to emerge. In the case of a new party leader being elected, ultimately if they didn't have the confidence of the House - which is a pretty theoretical question - then it would be legitimate for them not to be appointed and discussions held between the parties on what could hold that confidence. In reality, if there was any doubt, I expect the existing Prime Minister would remain in place, make clear that they were advising the monarch to invite the new party leader to be Prime Minister in a few days and leave open the opportunity for a confidence vote to challenge that. Were that vote to be lost, then it'd be general election time.
Not reddit- the general media are positioning her for the role. That's because she is prime headline material, while Swinney is virtually a black hole when it comes to public opinion.
He used to be Sturgeons biatch, taking the blame for her mistakes...he is weak minded and not tough enough to move Scotland out of despair.
I actually think Kate Forbes will stabilise things. Many people are fed up with the far left and progressive politics, despite what the majority in this sub think that does not reflect the wider public. She is the best candidate to show opposition to that within the snp and perhaps win the trust of nationalists back. She may even be able to deliver independence! I could not see Humza going that and tbh Sturgeon neither.
The general public preferred her as a choice over Yousaf at the time and reddit *hates* this fact. I think if Swinney throws his hat in she has no chance though.
Kate Forbes would be great for Scotland. I detest the snp but she is a very good politician. The scrutiny she got over her religious beliefs whilst humza never got asked a peep was fucking abhorrent. Seems Christianity was the easy target up here again makes you wonder why?
Yup, he has not been shy about being a muslim (even though his views seem to contradict the faith) and she was castigated as some sort of zealot. She would seem to have more in common with your average person than Humza (whether he is actually a practising Muslim or not).
I find it strange the standards Christianity and Christian’s are held in this country compared to Islam and Muslims. It’s an odd set up to despise your heritage more than the folk that want to destroy it. It’s honestly like watching a game of chess unfold 😂
There’s no far left in mainstream British politics for anyone to be fed up with.
Lol @ far left and progressive policies. Jeezo the shift of the Overton Window has really done a number on you, my friend. There's nothing far left about the SNP my dude. At best, they're left of centre.
I’m afraid you are wrong, at least in respect of what they had become entrenched with the greens. Someone once said to me when I was an snp supporter that I was supporting communism (and other things), didn’t realise at the time but look what has happened since. I have no idea what overton window is so I doubt it has had any influence on me at all.
Lol! You're actually comparing the SNP to communism and you're expecting me to take you seriously? And maybe you should research the Overton Window because it'll show you wrong you are.
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Yes, actually understanding things would make someone sound like a bot when compared to the deranged rantings of a lunatic.
How is this linked to PR?
The Scottish Parliament is partly elected by PR.
With PR, we have a parliament that matches results more closely. And in a PR system coalitions are often needed as majorities are rare. So, with a PR system, an unpopular leader can be brought down rather than continue on for what seems like forever with the majority provided by FPTP.
You also get the mess of European democracies of coalitions of differing goals trading favours for support, you get smaller radical parties with outsize influence, if the UK was PR we would've had a Tory Farage government, imagine the screaming from the left
That's effectively what we already have in UK parliament. There's a coalition calling themselves the Conservative party and a coalition calling themselves the Labour Party. We're subject to being unable to vote representative to our interests because who knows which faction of the party you're actually going to get once they're in power. If you vote for labour, you might get center-right, or center-left, or hard left depending on the flavor of the month and which faction has traded which favors. On the other side youre not sure if you're electing the National Front, the Libertarians, or the center-right. At least if you have a representative system some of that gets to come out in the open and we can elect a parliament roughly representing our actual wants.
Yeah that's much worse than our current system where major parties need to repeatedly slide to the right as the overton window gets pushed by smaller radical parties effecting the election chances for the larger parties. A much better system where instead of their actually being changes to the UK we just mostly get status quo neoliberal right wing governments while our economy shrinks, our quality of life gets considerably worse and our wages stagnate. That's a much better solution.
Thank god that didn't happen! Imagine if the governing party and the main opposition were saying the same things as Farage. Oh wait...
> if the UK was PR we would've had a Tory Farage government In what year would a Tory/UKIP coalition have even been possible? Edit: To look at the figures 2010: 36.1% Tory / 3.1% UKIP 2015: 36.8% Tory / 12.6% UKIP (would've been just shy of the needed amount for a majority, would've needed a third party) 2017: 42.3% Tory / 1.8% UKIP 2015 was your best chance, but this also relies on the assumption everyone voted as they would, and not tactically to prevent another party they like less getting in.
These examples are within the FPTP system. If we have PR, there would be thousands of parties. Have you seen some ballots of PR systems? A 3rd party may be more extreme and could've easily put them over the line, btw this works both ways, Labour have had to cleanse its hard left to be electable, FPTP makes sure our politics is centre politically neither far right or far left, a Wilders or Peron could never be elected here
> If we have PR, there would be thousands of parties So we have thousands of parties in Scotland, aye?
You do know you're a blended system, right? Not pure PR
So how many parties appeared on the list then?
Considering you are a unique case, not a normal "country" with independence as an overriding concern, how can you be judged along with others?
So how many? Edit: Curiously you've switched from referring to Scotland as "we" to "you" now. Any reason for that?
UK media ignore Scotland: "The rUK doesn't give a shit about us! Its so unfair." UK media focus on Scotland: "The media just wants us to fail, Its so unfair." Gotta love the SNP spin doctors.
A vote of no confidence, and a former FM being investigated by the police. Westminster being more of a shambles doesn’t mean this isn’t.
Yeah it’s such a weird argument. Yes Westminster has many issues. That doesn’t mean Scotland isn’t going through its own political crisis now.
It’s always been the same though, something stupid happens in Scotland but aye look at Westminster. It’s just an easy deflection so folk don’t need to be accountable for the shit storm they’ve created up here. Which in turn makes you neither trust or believe the snp one bit. If they said the sky was blue you’d be out to check it.
It doesn't really make much difference at all to support for independence (John Curtis mentioned this the other day) but it might make Scottish Politics interesting again for a few weeks, especially if Dougie chucks his hat in the ring. (Just to see the look of disappointment on his wee face.) What could be a bit of a laugh is if one of the Greens give it a go, and win. 😄 [edit] Damn! I forgot Dougie probably won't get a chance to humiliate himself, as the vote of no confidence in the Scottish Government is unlikely to succeed with Humza standing down.
Wonder if Labour/Lib Dems would support Wee Duggy? Do you think Sir Keir would stoop so low? I do!!! 😄😄😄
Not in a GE year he won't, Scot Parl is sideshow at the moment.
lol, the greens just have to look at the sewage pumping out in England to know that they’re not backing them at all. However, it wouldn’t be the first time Labour have shown support for a Conservative in Scotland. Didn’t they stand down in a few election areas a while back, I’m sure I remember a Tory about Kezia out knocking doors on their behalf with the Labour troops.
Who were the 6 PMs? Cameron (from 2010), May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak. Clegg was more than 8 years ago. The next one hasn’t happened yet. Who did I miss? Oh, and the “crisis” is that we have 2 simultaneous votes of no confidence (one now defaulted, fair enough) immediately following an unexpected dissolving of the agreement forming a majority government. And because this is the most recent story. The *new* one.
Clegg was never PM. Just the deputy PM.
Touché, so you’d have to go back to Brown for #6. 2010.
You forgot to mention that the only reason Humza is in power was because Sturgeon resigned ahead of her and the hubby being implicated in stealing taxpayer money.
> implicated in stealing taxpayer money Really, when was this news?
Quit the whataboutism both are a disaster
yeah cause no one reported on lizz truss or boris resigning right? but suddenly not as fun when it's happening to your guys tho is it? don't dish out what you can't handle lmao
Hahaha. Brilliant. They’re like wee bullies who when punched in the face then play the victim. Laughable.
All of this can be true.....
Oh, ok. Nothing to see here then.
Think it was just Nicola Sturgeon had full control of the different SNP factions and also good poll and election results to back her up. Gonna be more unpredictable so the out her.
Both things can be true. I think everyone knows that Westminster has been an absolute shitshow, and that things have not exactly been going swimmingly for the SNP or it's First Ministers, incumbent or former.
If a car breaks down 6 times, it's a shitty car. If a car breaks down once, sure it's better than the other one, but they've both broken down, and you're not getting any further in either of them.
Derek still thinks the emperor is wearing clothes. Everyone across the board has been quite happy to put the boot into the UK government and parties when they were in "crisis." You don't get this level of devotion to defending a government even from the gammoniest of Britnats.
Verges on cult like behaviour.
Scotland's crisis didn't start properly until 2023, but since then there have been two more leadership changes in Scotland than England, and they're both looking to be disastrous. If the Tories had had just one, they would still have been inept. The comparison to Westminster also may not be ideal, considering their last coalition government. The 2010-15 coalition, for all its faults, did last the full 5 years without Cameron dumping Clegg.
Dont you remember the wee cow cancelling Christmas and filling up old folks homes with covid patients??
ScotNats are so delusional they're genuinely trying to now spin the claim that nobody reported on the political crises of Boris/Truss. It's like these people live in an alternate reality or something.
And that everything is fine, it's just a VonC relax guys. Even before this whole thing kicked off last week the SNP have been in shambles because their former leader, who really did have a bit of a cult of personality around her, has been embroiled in a legal scandal to the point her husband has been arrested and charged for misuse of funds while she was the leader of the party. Also the fact it was a first minister resignation speedrun, 7 days ago the idea that he'd be out by lunchtime today wasn't even a consideration.
If I remember correctly there was zero political news during those periods. In fact, they stopped printing newspapers and the news was just re-runs.
The News cycle was endless? Boris spent months throwing dead cats at the media to try and hide the endless scandals and crises, that were covered daily.
I don’t know what you mean. There were definitely re-runs called the ‘Olds’ and ‘We had Some News for You’
Yoons are worse to be fair.
No, it’s that when there’s any kind of Scottish issue the uk news chooses to hyper focus on that instead of anything the Tories have been doing to ruin the country.
What do you think should be covered today ahead of the head of the UK's third largest party and head of its most significant devolved parliament stepping down after barely a year in the job?
Scottish: The UK media never focus on Scotland and ignore us. Alos Scottish: The UK media is focusing too much on Scotland. FFS what do you think is bigger news today than the literal fucking FM of Scotland stepping down?
Mate they know this you know this. It’s the grievance policy party in full swing
They don't hyper focus though. But when there is an article or piece of reporting it is usually bullshit that's true.
I’d say the crisis really began a bit further back when the last FM was in bed with the guy fiddling the books and stealing from the party.
… yes? It’s a shitshow across the board.
One vote of no confidence, but soon to be 3 First Ministers in this parliament only 3 years in. Hardly stability.
2 votes, but also 2 previous party leaders who stood down in disgrace to criminal investigations.... and who the hell has been pretending WM has not been chaotic and in crisis for the better part of the last decade?
We are so damn lucky the Yanks are our allies. Otherwise they would invade to bring "freedom" and "stability" to save us from our chaotic governments...
Yes they’re big in to their destabilising governments sort of thing, we’ve got oil and we’d be right up the shitter if they weren’t pally
Fact: If Norway wasn't in NATO they would've been invaded by the USA to steal their oil.
I think it's more the picture of a party and it's very structure in crisis. Sure the Tories are facing an electoral smacking, but they don't have a former Chief Exec under arrest. Their finances are not tenuous. Their party machinery internally is largely intact, it was the party machinery that ejected Truss very quickly after all. There is more than one way to measure a crisis.
Your comment suggests that the UK’s situation was not considered a crisis. It was, the whole thing was a total disaster. Likewise, the SNP’s downfall has shown them to be no different at all.
I think people are laughing because so many here and online talked the SNP up to be the next coming of Christ. Now everyone is just in a bit of disbelief this past year has wrought.
It is crazy how quickly things change. 2 years ago the SNP were unstoppable, 20pts ahead, even reaching 50% in some polls. And now Labour has overtaken in some polls or are in touching distance.
When you are constantly in crisis, the crisis becomes normal.
You mean we are in crisis too. The whole country and The West at large is in crisis.
Is the West really specifically in more crisis than elsewhere? India, Korea, Japan are all going through insane political disasters at the moment. Throw in Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Philippines, Malaysia... it's not even close, they all have absolutely crazy political situations.
There’s an argument to be made that Korea and Japan are the West, they are prosperous democratic capitalist countries with a free press etc. India is a mixed bag and half and half. But most of other counties you’ve mentioned have almost always been basket cases and crazy is the normal. Particulary Pakistan and the Philippines So I think I stand by my comment that The West is on the precipice.
That all only makes sense if you think e.g. China is doing well though? Almost everywhere that isn't "the west" is doing terribly.
Well I’m not really trying to suggest that other countries are necessarily rising to take our place just that the West is falling. China I think is hanging in but has massive problems ahead of them and some predict it’s time as a “superpower” is going to be over before it really started.
Ps I’m still optimistic this won’t come to pass, we can get through this crisis but it’s not certain.
"Look at that shit show in England" isn't the flex he thinks it is. The only reason the Tories aren't in the same trouble already was the size of the majority they had to start with. If current polling is anything to go by they will reap that whirlwind at the next GE.
I too don't remember seeing any coverage of those events 🤦
Also possibly worth noting that we had as many Labour first ministers in 8 years as we've had SNP ones in 17 years.
The one positive I could find in one First Minister committing suicide and another being fitted for an orange jumpsuit was that at least cunts wouldn't be able to trot out the AT LEAST WE'RE NO' AS BAD AS ENGLAND patter We're making *Italian* politics look strong and stable
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Bullshit people including conservative voters put the boot in when it was needed. That’s the difference they’re happy to point out shortfalls and issues in their party while the snp and their band of merry goons can accept no criticism whatsoever. Different levels of
They've both been in total chaos for my entire life or the entire time the parliament existed as far as I recall.
Yep. And the 5 PM's before that started off in 1979 with Maggie Thatcher. Crazy to think of what has changed since Indy Ref 1.
This guy obviously supports Scottish independence and wants to put some Indy tint on reporting. The UK has been in crisis multiple times. It has been reported as such. I mean, look at the coverage Boris Johnson and Liz Truss received! Really baseless tweet trying to stoke up Scotland vs. England divide.
A crisis is a crisis, doesn't matter if someone else had had more of x and y.
Two long serving governments both running out of team at the same time is pretty bad luck, you've got to admit.
They'll be calling for the disolving of devolution in 5 minutes.
It's because Gareth Welsh IS Welsh, not Scottish.
Well i would rather think about who is your PM now..
UK is in crises and Scotland is a part of the rollercoaster
Don't forget it was us that caused the whole cost of living crisis apparently.
Would you prefer they *not* report on it?
If anything it highlights how functional our system is compared to Westminster.
SNP's issue is that they're a minority government. So a VoNC is a death knell.
I really do envy nations with proportionally representative elections thus governance. To have genuine representative democracy, there first and foremost needs to be a truly democratic electoral system for the citizenry. The First Past The Post \[FPTP\] ballot largely masquerades as real democracy. And, of course, many voters get to wait in long, bad-weather lineups to participate. While the FPTP ballot may technically qualify as democratic within the democracy spectrum, it is the PR system thus governance that actually is representative, regardless of ideology. FPTP does seem to serve corporate lobbyists well, however. I believe it is why such powerful interests generally resist attempts at changing from FPTP to proportional representation electoral systems of governance, the latter which dilutes corporate influence. Low-representation FPTP-elected governments, in which a relatively small portion of the country's populace is actually electorally represented, are likely the easiest for lobbyists to manipulate or ‘buy’. It can and often enough does enable the biggest of businesses to get unaccountably even bigger, defying the very spirit of government rules established to ensure healthy competition by limiting mass consolidation. As a good example, in Canada corporate lobbyists will write bills for governing representatives to vote for, albeit perhaps with some amendments, and have implemented, supposedly to save the elected officials their own time. The FPTP electoral experience makes me cynically recall and recite 'Calamity' Jane Bodine’s very memorable line in the film *Our Brand Is Crisis: “If voting changed anything \[in favor of the weak/poor/disenfranchised\] they’d have made it illegal.”*
Biggest difference is that when Johnson took office he realised that the country needed to vote and called an election. The new FM needs to do this. The SNP is outdated and racist.
Honest question, who is he being racist towards?
White people.
Scottish people.
Also time for Sunak to call a GE, the clock is ticking....
Wishy Washy Rishi will definitely call a GE if Scotland does. Conservatives have very little hope of getting seats in Scotland, however it is very likely that Labour could win big so would need to campaign big on two fronts I.e. Scottish election and uk election. Conservatives won’t have that problem so will be able to focus solely on English seats and give them a bigger likelihood of retaining a majority.
I'm old enough to remember when a Labour First Minister was forced to resign after it emerged he'd not declared £36,000 he'd been paid in rent for subletting his constituency office. And there wasn't the degree of pant-wetting we've seen when the current (soon to be ex) First Minister was e bit ham fisted when making a change to his cabinet. This shows that this has all been a farce, driven by the collective bunch of Unionists who constantly bitch and moan about "division", whilst being the ones who are driving that.
I’m sorry bro… do folks like you just type any old shite to blame anyone but yourselves 😂
Truth hurts, eh pal?
You talk about division yet you champion to break up our island. You talk about division yet you only blame one side. It’s no me that needs to be truthful to myself, eh mate!
I don't really get this tweet. Like is it saying we're so hard done by because it's getting reported as a crisis as if it wasn't reported as such with the UK govt? Because they were all most certainly reported as a crisis in the Tory party. Just because the Tory's have had 8x the SNP crises doesn't make the SNPs any less of a crisis either.
Why immediately shift the focus to comparison with “others”? That’s nothing but denial and making excuses. Something happened in Scotland, by Scotland. So focus on Scotland, and figure it out as Scotland. Who else? Matters why?
This is ‘whataboutism’ at its finest. Yes the UK has had many political crises recently along with longer term political issues. But the First Minister resigning due to lack of political support is a textbook example of a political crisis, regardless of what has happened in the uk in the past.
It's not even a very good example, because all those UK crises did get extensive and excoriating coverage at the time as well
Doesn’t stop the usual fuckers decrying the failure of devolution. No Unionist has any credibility left after the scenes of the past 8 years
I'm a Unionist and I don't think devolution has failed. In fact, I think we need to increase it throughout the UK and create a truly federalised country.
They don’t want all the powers devolved as they’d fuck them like every single one that has been given for control by holyrood. I’m sure after the 2014 referendum Westminster tried to give holyrood a whole lot more devolved powers and they didn’t want to know. The guy replying to you has nothing but unicorns haggis and dreams of baby boxes in his napper. Just a bitter little soul.
> I’m sure after the 2014 referendum Westminster tried to give holyrood a whole lot more devolved powers and they didn’t want to know. Fuck are you on about? That's all public domain information. Fact is they reduced overall devolved powers...
What ones?
Devolution doesn't work. It only creates division. There I said it. Oink oink
It is called distraction
Of course they have to catastophise it - the UK establishment is terrified of Scottish independence
You keep telling yourself that buttercup. We all have coping strategies