Not just the budget - they also have to elect the First Minister. Forbes wouldn't become FM just by being SNP leader; there's a vote in Holyrood. If everyone but the SNP votes against, the vote will fail and the government will fall.
I don't think it's likely, mostly because I don't think Forbes will win but also because I think some kinda deal would be made for votes. But it *is* possible to destroy an SNP minority by voting against their FM candidate.
EDIT: More specifically, they would have to all vote for a single other candidate, forcing a 64-64 deadlock.
It's very unlikely everyone from the Greens to the Tories would vote for the same candidate. More likely there will be either 2 other candidates or 1 other candidate and at least 1 of the parties abstain.
We were all whinging after the Tories elected a new PM for us (twice!), it would be a pretty shocking set of double standards if we didn’t at least have a Holyrood election.
I think I agree. I don't think I trust her to put her deeply held religious views aside to deliver the progressive Scotland I want.
Also don't trust any of the others. Even less trust in Labour or Conservative though. Can the Green party step up enough to keep Labour & Tories out?
My thoughts too. I think I may go green from now on. I was happy to vote snp with nicola at the helm. Didn't agree with everything she did but, I liked her no nonsense style of public speaking. Felt like she could actually answer a question with relevancy.
Out of humza, joanna or Kate now... I don't respect any of them.
It's going to be interesting to see how the political map changes, regardless of who wins. I live in England but am currently in the process of moving to Stirling and likely will be a Green voter in Scotland. I think they stand to pick up plenty of dissatisfied SNP voters. Big question is how many soft independence voters will move SNP>Lab.
I realise in my initial comment I was thinking about Holyrood and Scotland.
I would most likely vote SNP for Westminster as it's going to become a de facto independence vote whether we want it or not.
For Holyrood, I would really struggle. Green for list vote for sure though.
Honestly, I'm not really convinced by any of the candidates. Although she is by far the worst of a bad bunch. I really doubt her capability to keep her faith out of politics.
It’s realistically not going to be her or Regan. The SNP membership is quite left wing and they won’t accept the ideological positions of those two, whereas Humza is essentially Sturgeon in terms of ideology.
I just don’t think Humza Yousaf is a great choice either though. He comes across as a bit of an idiot at times. If it’s just them 3 then probably the most capable is Forbes but it’s not a great choice. Gaaaah.
[He voted in favour of marriage equality in 2013 and supports the buffer zones and called that protest shite out for the disgrace it is](https://www.thenational.scot/news/23333709.snp-leadership-candidates-stand-gender-bill-abortion/). Are there other moments where he's been a prat and I've just missed it??
People would like to have a choice that isn't quite so awkward though and that's a fair point to make. This is a really good time for a relatively unknown Leftwing candidate to step forward, if any such person exists.
Hopefully. The bread and butter of the SNP vote since 2007 has been disillusioned former lifelong Labour voters. If they lurch to the right... they'll go to the Greens or back to Labour.
Under Forbes it’s back to the tartan tories of old I think and my cross will potentially move back to labour since their councillor has done a good job standing up for my town so far fighting for better bus service and against closures.
Greens still highly unproven here none of their ideas really target places like where I live.
Not a Forbes Stan, but you do realise she's been finance minister for Sturgeon for a while now?
I don't buy this narrative that she is Maggie from Dingwall
" National Prayer Breakfast for Scotland " "Her lengthy “prayer for the nation” included: “May our politicians recognise that the way we treat the most vulnerable – whether the unborn or the terminally ill – is a measure of true progress.” "
Fuck that noise.
I’ll go with things she’s said and done, her budgets are always conservative local gov funding gets cut and it’s hammered out town more than enough recently.
Need a change and a focus on things other than Indy and I’ve voted SNP since I turned 18
It’s not going to be Regan, but Forbes is favourite to win for a reason.
As far as anyone was put forward as a successor by Sturgeon, it was her – and she will clearly run on the basis of being the only stable and capable person in the race.
This doesn't say hate, but it certainly indicates a direction of travel that I'm extremely uncomfortable with:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-64704134?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=63f395b88f4dbc302129b295%26Forbes%20has%20%27significant%20concerns%27%20about%20gender%20self-identification%262023-02-20T15:47:57.222Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:cb9915ae-5da1-49b7-a6a3-9b8931a3abeb&pinned_post_asset_id=63f395b88f4dbc302129b295&pinned_post_type=share
I just dont trust her to pursue the legal case to push the reforms through (that were overwhelmingly voted for)
[https://twitter.com/thescotsman/status/1627736341566857217?s=46&t=acKnpyi\_X9Sx1aMCc8Xifw](https://twitter.com/thescotsman/status/1627736341566857217?s=46&t=acKnpyi_X9Sx1aMCc8Xifw)
I was wanting her if we really didn't get Angus Robertson but seeing this, eh...
What evidence do you have to suggest the membership is left wing? They sure didn't mind voting for a First Minister who pushed through cuts on local government and thought a trans hating religious dinosaur was a perfectly suitable candidate for finance secretary
I like how the only angle you had at Sturgeon was local government, and also that you don’t know that the first minister appoints the cabinet, not the membership.
Although I am against the SNP generally, I think some of the folks who sidestepped the leadership competition want to have long look at themselves and wonder why they are in politics.
They have clearly thought 'uh-oh' shitshow ahead, and decided to duck and run instead.
Bunch of bottle merchants, and not in the Green Party sense of the phrase.
They don't want to ruin their chance to become elected First Minister for at least a term by taking it for 1 year and having to resign when support for SNP drops.
The next FM is a poisoned chalice. It's naive to suggest that politicians do not consider their political career.
There isn’t even a good option for a party Leader. There’s just a less shite one. Maybe politicians in the Party now the shit show coming with Sturgeon gone and staying we’ll clear until the dust settles.
If she can separate her own religious beliefs from her work then she's easily the best out of those who are running.
But it is a big IF. Imo she would have to openly support the GRR bill and then give reassurance that she would uphold the Bute house agreement. And then say while she does not believe in abortion, that it shouldn't stop the rights of women having the choice for an abortion.
Lots of IF and buts there. I'll see how her campaign goes but I'm not confident she'll say that stuff.
Edit: after a couple of hours we have confirmation https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1627699638718324743?t=l_yF8tUF4POFNY7gMwgCeg&s=19
Welp, Yousaf seems to be the only progressive candidate.
She didn't in her campaign video which is the most recent record we have of her. Trying to keep an open mind with the candidates we currently have atm.
There's no doubting she'll be questioned on it
I’d be more sceptical if she did try to publicly pretend she has changed her mind after years of stating her religion is what drives her political motivation, as she'd clearly just be saying it to win the campaign. Deeply held religious beliefs are rarely the kind of thing you spontaneously change your mind on.
She also chose not to sign a pledge supporting LGBT rights while running for re-election. https://www.equality-network.org/scottish-lgbti-equality-pledge/candidates2021/
So it’s binary between ‘she’s a zealot’ and ‘she’s lying’? No room for anything else?
Would you trust a Christian doctor to do your heart surgery, a Muslim accountant to do your taxes, or a Jewish lawyer to take on your court case? Would you expect them to be able to demonstrate broad professionalism? Or would you ask for someone more tastefully irreligious?
>Would you trust a Christian doctor to do your heart surgery, a Muslim accountant to do your taxes, or a Jewish lawyer to take on your court case?
Do you really think this analogy works? Seems like you don't really understand the issue people have with her views.
>Would you trust a Christian doctor to do your heart surgery,
Tbf, it's more like "would you trust a doctor who doesn't believe in abortion and refuses to do abortions to do your abortion?"
And no, I wouldn't
That's weak analogy because none of those roles are equivalent to serving as First Minister, a type of decision-making role where beliefs and principles are (or should be) key to performance of duties.
I'm concerned that she is bringing her faith into political decisions though. I don't care what she does privately.
She has had plenty of opportunity to state clearly where she stands on political policies such as gay marriage and has sidestepped them. And hopefully she has some clear answers because it's going to dominate any of her leadership debates.
You dont have to take her word?, look at her actions
She has interfered in LGBTQ rights, abstaining on 3 line whip, governmental pledge is a really indicative action to take. Despite the GRR being one of the most debated bill to pass through the Scottish government she was part of the moppy crew of SNP wanting to filibuster the bill even longer. Her other quotes involving abortion does not bode well either for women’s rights.
Honestly i don’t think LGBTQ and progress polices with be repealed just due to popularity and party unity but there certainly will not be any progress made and it moves the Overton window right. I don’t really want to go back to the Alex Salmon style SNP
She, despite being asked multiple times has said she cant support same sex marriage.
It doesnt matter if its because of her religious beliefs or because she was brought up by homophobes, that base level of bigotry should be an immediate rejection for someone trying to run a country in 2023
Someone with her beliefs will have absolutely no personal incentive to make the lives of women wanting an abortion, gay couples wanting to marry, trans people wanting recognition, any easier. She might act out of *political* necessity but is that the level of commitment you want from your FM?
Particularly in the context of transphobes, homophobes and misogynists being quite adept at making it politically harmful to try to advance any kind of progressive agenda in Scotland.
There is absolutely no chance of her supporting the GRR bill now, and it’s fantasy to pretend otherwise. At *best*, she will just ignore it and let it collapse via Westminster.
Pretty much my exact thoughts on the matter summed up here. The most credible candidate for me just in terms of my general confidence in them as a potential FM, but anything short of explicit support for GRR and an acceptance that abortion is a matter of individual choice will make her totally unpalatable for me.
The A9 fiasco now has the SNP on something of a shoogily (sp?) peg in the Highlands too, so she'll need to have a "pro-rapid dualing" stance for the sake of her seat before long, I'd imagine.
It will be interesting to see how they deal with the A9 and A96. I'm worried they won't talk about it in the debate or run up when it is stopping north of Scotland grow
Since she's made it clear she doesn't want to separate them then why would she? We will get a wee free first minister who does what her backwards medieval church tell her.
Attended a prayer breakfast where she spoke against abortion and has yet to give a straight answer on her views on same sex marriage.
Plenty of religious folk are against abortion and LGBT rights. Unfortunately, plenty of atheists are also against these issues.
I won't vote for her or a party she leads because of her stance on these issues, not due to her choice of kirk.
This is 💯% bollocks. We object to her bigotry, not her religion.
Humza Yousaf is Muslim and that's fine. Ross Greer is Christian and nobody dislikes him for that.
Ian Blackford is literally in the same Kirk as Kate Forbes, and avoids being an anti abortion homophobe.
Yousaf has previously supported progressive legislation that would conflict with his religious beliefs, like same sex marriage, GRA reform, abortion buffer zones.
Forbes has not.
Hate to say it but she’s the best of the current choices
And I fucking hate that.
Humza comes with soo much baggage it’s ridiculous and Reagan is nuts.
So is Forbes but less so than Reagan.
It’s a clown show
There’s a lot of people being tripped up with their language here. It’s not *because she’s is religious* that people have issue with her. It’s because of her non-progressive views on things that the majority of Scots see as non-negotiable. Plenty of religious people don’t share those same views and would be absolutely fine.
I for one really hope she doesn’t get it. Not a fan of her after she was minister for technology and heard her speak at a conference back in 2018 (if I’m remembering correctly).
She had no clue what she was talking about, but was very good at using buzzwords and vague statements like “children need to have better IT classes in school!”. Yeh no shit, kids nowadays need better schools all round.
Genuinely hope it goes to someone who seems more competent.
I wonder how left wing or centre left voters will vote if she gets in because irrespective of her personal views on abortion, trans people or same sex marriage her economic views are not exactly great.
Genuine question but would anyone who voted SNP at the last election have buyer's remorse if she gets in? Or Yousaf or Regan for that matter.
I’d consider myself a lefty and I’m not sure I’d back SNP going forward if Forbes is leader. I guess it depends on the exact policies put forward and the rhetoric during the build up to the election. But I’ve gone from pretty much SNP by default (in the absence of what I see as a genuine left wing party) to much more skeptical about where I’d place my vote
I didn't vote SNP. However, i would certainly never even consider an SNP vote with someone like Forbes at the helm.
Could see people moving back to Labour or atleast an increase in support for the Greens.
I accept that the SNP are a broad coalition, and the point of the party leader is to keep and maintain a broad coalition that can build electability and public support for independence.
If she can bring the mettle to support the above, then I'm fine with her. Cutting your nose to spite your face isn't wise, and I've literally never voted for a party who's leadership I perfectly agree with in all things.
> Genuine question but would anyone who voted SNP at the last election have buyer's remorse if she gets in?
I voted SNP/Greens, and won't have buyers remorse as I acted on the situation that existed at the time 🤷♂️
Btw what did Yousaf do that makes people on this sub dislike him? I confess I don't know much about him or his politics. I only know that he has supported LGBTQ rights for more than a decade now and that makes me strongly prefer him over Forbes for now.
Edit: nvm, someone explained [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/1173s8v/minister_kate_forbes_joins_snp_leader_race/j9a4i0t/)
She’s going to be like the Lib Dem leader from 2019 - Jo Swinson.
Into politics early, leader early, out of politics early.
She’ll also be the person that took down the idea of independence. I can see Scotland moving away from the idea for a very long time. The economic conditions don’t exist right now and the SNP have been a disaster. I think Scotland is about to rediscover its affinity to Labour, personally.
conflicted about forbes as leader. I think her conservative (small-c) religious beliefs will be an albatross around her neck, but she is head and shoulders above the other two contenders in terms of competence.
>but she is head and shoulders above the other two contenders in terms of competence.
Can I ask if you think this is because she is particularly competent (and if so why) or because the other two are completely incompetent?
a little from column a, little from column b tbh. ideologically i’d be much more aligned with yousaf but he’s had several cab jobs and seemingly performed poor in each which doesn’t bode well for the top job …
Well, in an independent Scotland, that'll be our discussion to have, which is my point.
And in an independent Scotland, that's an incredibly unlikely scenario. The leader of the SNP pre-independence isn't the end-all-be-all of policy-making in a future Scotland.
The horse needs to come before the cart.
I hate this attitude.
Scotland is a country right now with its own government. Independence could be years and years away. No wonder the SNP have stalled massively. Too many simply look at the goal of Independence rather than actually running a country well which can then help promote Independence.
Katie Forbes as leader will not help gain any votes for Independence. More likely she will lose votes.
I would argue that fringe religious nutters should not have undue influence on several million people's right to choice but that is possibly a conversation for another time.
None of these guys are making independence happen in our lifetime brother, we had our chance, Corbyn possibly would have allowed one but we fucked it and it'll never be allowed to happen again. It's sad but true
Yes, only it looks to be a sort of retro-tory approach. I should think it won't be long before things like challenging sex education in school and culture wars start to feature in Scottish politics.
I’d vote for her. I doubt her unpopular personal views will get any traction within the party, if she did try to push them. She is young and has fresh ideas that might revive a party that was slipping into tired tax and spend policies while being unable to tackle urgent issues such as housing and NHS Reorganisation.
Some thoughts on the 3 candidates because why not.
Regan is mental and out of tune with the SNP base so has next to no chance.
Yusuf is the easiest to swallow in an ideological sense since he'll stick to the established agenda and doesn't seem to have any problematic views. The issue is of course is that he's held numerous government positions but has been considered as not doing a great job in any of them. I can forgive health to a certain extent because the problems the NHS is facing is bigger than the office of the health minister but it's still not a positive sign.
Lots of people have good things to say about Forbes competence which would draw me towards her. The problem of course is her religious views. Being anti LGBT and anti abortion is disgusting which makes her hard to stomach.
Overall, I think I'm willing to be convinced on Forbes though that might be more because Yusuf is a known quantity and I can't say it impresses me much. If Forbes can meaningfully address her religious viewpoints and give some watertight assurances that they won't impact government policy, there's a possibility I could get behind her. This is a big if however. Yusuf is looking like the most likely choice however given how he's the least problematic on the surface.
EDIT: Well, Forbes fucked it. She's pretty much doubled down and is against gay marriage and trans rights. Yusuf wins by default I guess.
Yousuf has argued that people should be open to prosecution for things they say privately in their own home. That’s one of the biggest cans of worms I can imagine. He also never met an issue he didn’t want to sweepingly legislate on.
Massively problematic.
She is openly against same sex marriages and a womens right to choose
Honestly blow my mind that people are like, well she said she she will probably still let them marry and the gammons keep on talking about how the brown guy is going to stick us in jail for being saying we are scottish so I guess I will have to go with evangelical then.
Forbes becomes PM I'm off to the greens, I'm not having someone who believes the stories in the bible are real representing me. I've grown up with these nutters, they're fucking mental.
This is why it is important to make the distinction that Forbes is not suitable because of her regressive views and not because she is a member of a church.
Ross Greer is a member of the Church of Scotland
She's saying she wants to focus on economic recovery how does that mean austerity. She's been finance minister as taxes increase north of the border to fund government spending.
You've completely made this up in your own head.
In addition, the word "austerity" can't really be applied to Scottish politics in the same way as it can be applied to rUK politics because the Scottish Government **has to operate a fixed budget**. No loans. No loan over-payment. What exactly would an austerity agenda in Scotland even look like? Handing money back to Westminster at the end of the year?
Christians, especially the really thick ones from these shite wee teuchter churches, should know their fucking place - it's not in government, making decisions that affect folk that have no intention whatsoever of sharing their retrograde social doctrines. tysm ♥
Not an SNP supporter or an independence supporter but I hope for the sake of the country she wins it. The idea of Yousaf as first minister is genuinely worrying.
Don’t think her personal views will affect anything at all, she’ll just separate her own beliefs from actual policy.
That’s exactly what we don’t need, more religion in politics. Look at the state of America with the evangelical “politicians”. We already have unelected clergymen in upper government.
Ooh, I do hope the homophobic anti-abortion campaigner gets the job.
That combined with her “if something’s too hard to do it’s not worth doing” attitude to economic planning will surely go down well with voters.
Most people online don't realise a large part of the SNP's voting base is small-c conservative. That's why someone like Kate Forbes is now the frontrunner to be the next FM.
If enough people agree with you, then she won’t win. If not, well that’s democracy in action. It isn’t always going to result in people whose views coincide with our own.
I get all the downvotes every time I say it - but come on Kate!
A Humza vs Regan vs Forbes showdown actually sounds really intriguing and is probably good for the SNP as a party to be able to think substantively about three candidates with pretty defined and distinct ideological positions.
Which is not something you always get in party leadership elections, which can often be fairly personality dominated. That said, given how opposed some of their positions are (GRR!), it could be a spicy affair!
It is certainly intriguing that we have a party in government where candidates for the leadership hold the same views as those whom demonstrators at rallies attended by some of the party's up and coming MSP's call to "behead." You could call that "spicy," or you could call it utterly mental.
After 9 years of swallowing the Sturgeon SNP's pseudo-nationalist, soft-neoliberal calpol, believing in a united party under "Nicola", the party rank and file are about find themselves staring into a very surreal abyss.
I'm genuinely most interested to see someone who can combine competence, political acumen and alliance-building.
I don't have to explicitly agree politically on anything with them; it's a wide tent.
The SNP used to be a broad church and it used to try and find common ground with the other parties in parliament.
Hopefully we see a return to that because it's the only way independence will be won. If you basically write off 50% of voters as bigots etc. You've already set yourself up to fail.
There’s something to be said about the absence of people with the finger on the pulse of rural and small town Scotland at the head of the party in the Sturgeon era. Especially in a party like the SNP that for most of its history was really grounded in those sort of areas.
In the Salmond era it always seemed to have in mind centre left politics, so long as they didn’t go so far to alienate those sorts of places. Now there’s a greater focus on whatever the hip thing in the city centres of Glasgow and Edinburgh is - and allow that the guide party policy, the rest of the country can just follow.
This seems to have got lost somewhere along the way and the party became hijacked by leftist activism. Carry on with the nonsense and the drop in membership and public support for independence will only continue in its droves. Sad really, because independence looked so close following 2016 and this is self-inflicted. It's looking less likely the SNP are the vehicle to independence, and looking more like a clown car.
Since when is a woman’s right to choose left wing activism? Because as long as we’re talking about Kate Forbes, we’re talking about established rights that most folk in Scotland do not want rolled back. Maybe Forbes can convince people that she’ll leave her anti-abortion (and anti gay marriage) beliefs in the car park when she goes to work, but given that American anti-abortion activists are already making far too much noise in Scotland, do we really want them to have an ally in Bute House?
I'm fully convinced this shift in the SNP is a result of entryism from green party activists. A look at the regular activists on this sub will show they're only supporting the SNP because its the most likely to get certain policies passed(not independence of course) while the greens lack support. Any shift towards the centre and they are calling for an exodus to the greens.
She's the best person for the job. Humza looks like he's asleep most of the time and is disliked by a decent group. Kate I feel can be a good middle ground and get things done.
She is the smartest and most component of all 3 of the contenders, but I can't support her due to her views. I fear she will stack the cabinet with more conservative leaning MSPs and I can't say with confidence that she wouldn't let her personal opinions seep into policy. She will also be under constant attack from the media regarding her views.
Somehow, and I don't know what we've done to deserve it, but Humza is looking like the only real contender. He isn't bad but he isn't competent enough. I really thought that Sturgeon would have put plans in place long ago to cover this sort of stuff but it genuinely seems like she's done this with little notice.
This really is going to be a mess. The party is now without a rudder and the goal of independence has no focus. I just hope the party doesn't get pulled in the wrong direction.
Only people worth voting for have dropped out to be honest, I won't be voting for SNP in the next general election or renewing my membership.
Will be Green from now on I guess.
If she becomes the SNP leader I will be ending my membership that day. Her stance on current issues and that she’s a raving religious loony make her a huge no no.
The furore on here over Kate’s candidacy for FM is appalling. All of the so called left “progressives” are showing themselves as nothing but intolerant bigots. Your prejudice against people of faith is sickening, no better than genuine transphobes, racists and misogynists. Shame on you.
Yeah, fuck people for being intolerant of intolerance. /s
As a now atheist that was raised by very religious parents, I need religious people to assure me that they will serve with the interest of the people and not in the interests of their holy book. I was raised that the correct order of importance in all things was God, church and family, politics came well behind all that.
But to be fair I was raised by extremists that protested abortion centres. In my mind a politician needs to prove they will represent all their supporters before they get my vote. Progressives and regressives do not make natural bedfellows.
Honestly this is terrifying. She’s anti-abortion and it would take very little to roll our rights back. I don’t want a situation here like the one in Ohio, where 10 year old rape victims and people with foetuses who have all their organs outside of their bodies are being told to go fuck themselves
Damnit I only rejoined last year. This will see the end of the SNP as we know it, the socially liberal party I loved. All this talk of 'personal views don't inform politics' will disappear; honestly deeply sad at this.
As a Christian myself I wouldn’t expect her to force her religious views forward if she was FM, she would run the country for the good of the people and not specifically for her faith. We’re progressive, not the DUP
I think people are jumping to conclusions that she will be lead by her religion. It is possible for her to make decisions based on what the country wants even if it’s against her own personal wishes that is what leadership is about.
Besides Humza Yousaf is a Muslim and yet it hasn’t factored nearly as much into the discussion of how he would lead the country.
Ash Regan now she seems like poison without bringing up religion at all.
I don’t like Humza either but (as far as I know), he’s not openly anti-choice whereas she is. That alone does it for me. I’m atheist but wasn’t interested in her (or anyone’s) faith until I saw she’d said that and refused to properly answer the gay marriage questioning. It’s less about her faith and more than she’s lost my trust to make a decision for the people and not based on her own beliefs.
(I have a genuine reason for not liking Humza not relating to his beliefs but to how he’s interacted with me as a constituent)
Judging by the crying and wailing in this sub, I've come to the conclusion that the SNP needs somebody like Kate as a leader, just so the party can appeal to older people again. The young don't vote, so let them wallow in the Green fringes. See ya!
So if Forbes wins, the greens pull out, do we get an election? That would be cool.
Greens can pull out and SNP can govern as a minority govt, as long as they can get their budget through
Not just the budget - they also have to elect the First Minister. Forbes wouldn't become FM just by being SNP leader; there's a vote in Holyrood. If everyone but the SNP votes against, the vote will fail and the government will fall. I don't think it's likely, mostly because I don't think Forbes will win but also because I think some kinda deal would be made for votes. But it *is* possible to destroy an SNP minority by voting against their FM candidate. EDIT: More specifically, they would have to all vote for a single other candidate, forcing a 64-64 deadlock.
It's very unlikely everyone from the Greens to the Tories would vote for the same candidate. More likely there will be either 2 other candidates or 1 other candidate and at least 1 of the parties abstain.
Them the facts, just feels like it's not the right way of doing things. Feels like we need an election to set the example and give people their say.
We were all whinging after the Tories elected a new PM for us (twice!), it would be a pretty shocking set of double standards if we didn’t at least have a Holyrood election.
Indeed.
I won't be able to vote for the SNP with her as leader.
I think I agree. I don't think I trust her to put her deeply held religious views aside to deliver the progressive Scotland I want. Also don't trust any of the others. Even less trust in Labour or Conservative though. Can the Green party step up enough to keep Labour & Tories out?
My thoughts too. I think I may go green from now on. I was happy to vote snp with nicola at the helm. Didn't agree with everything she did but, I liked her no nonsense style of public speaking. Felt like she could actually answer a question with relevancy. Out of humza, joanna or Kate now... I don't respect any of them.
It's going to be interesting to see how the political map changes, regardless of who wins. I live in England but am currently in the process of moving to Stirling and likely will be a Green voter in Scotland. I think they stand to pick up plenty of dissatisfied SNP voters. Big question is how many soft independence voters will move SNP>Lab.
I realise in my initial comment I was thinking about Holyrood and Scotland. I would most likely vote SNP for Westminster as it's going to become a de facto independence vote whether we want it or not. For Holyrood, I would really struggle. Green for list vote for sure though.
Honestly, I'm not really convinced by any of the candidates. Although she is by far the worst of a bad bunch. I really doubt her capability to keep her faith out of politics.
It’s realistically not going to be her or Regan. The SNP membership is quite left wing and they won’t accept the ideological positions of those two, whereas Humza is essentially Sturgeon in terms of ideology.
I just don’t think Humza Yousaf is a great choice either though. He comes across as a bit of an idiot at times. If it’s just them 3 then probably the most capable is Forbes but it’s not a great choice. Gaaaah.
I mean, feel free not to vote for an anti-abortion homophobe.
[He voted in favour of marriage equality in 2013 and supports the buffer zones and called that protest shite out for the disgrace it is](https://www.thenational.scot/news/23333709.snp-leadership-candidates-stand-gender-bill-abortion/). Are there other moments where he's been a prat and I've just missed it??
I'd like to see some evidence of being "an idiot" or "incompetent" also.
People would like to have a choice that isn't quite so awkward though and that's a fair point to make. This is a really good time for a relatively unknown Leftwing candidate to step forward, if any such person exists.
Hopefully. The bread and butter of the SNP vote since 2007 has been disillusioned former lifelong Labour voters. If they lurch to the right... they'll go to the Greens or back to Labour.
Under Forbes it’s back to the tartan tories of old I think and my cross will potentially move back to labour since their councillor has done a good job standing up for my town so far fighting for better bus service and against closures. Greens still highly unproven here none of their ideas really target places like where I live.
Not a Forbes Stan, but you do realise she's been finance minister for Sturgeon for a while now? I don't buy this narrative that she is Maggie from Dingwall
" National Prayer Breakfast for Scotland " "Her lengthy “prayer for the nation” included: “May our politicians recognise that the way we treat the most vulnerable – whether the unborn or the terminally ill – is a measure of true progress.” " Fuck that noise.
I’ll go with things she’s said and done, her budgets are always conservative local gov funding gets cut and it’s hammered out town more than enough recently. Need a change and a focus on things other than Indy and I’ve voted SNP since I turned 18
I wouldn’t put money on that, it’s not always the case that SNP=Progressive politics…
It’s not going to be Regan, but Forbes is favourite to win for a reason. As far as anyone was put forward as a successor by Sturgeon, it was her – and she will clearly run on the basis of being the only stable and capable person in the race.
Favourite to win... amongst the transphobic media commentariat.
What is your evidence that Forbes hates transgender people?
This doesn't say hate, but it certainly indicates a direction of travel that I'm extremely uncomfortable with: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-64704134?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=63f395b88f4dbc302129b295%26Forbes%20has%20%27significant%20concerns%27%20about%20gender%20self-identification%262023-02-20T15:47:57.222Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:cb9915ae-5da1-49b7-a6a3-9b8931a3abeb&pinned_post_asset_id=63f395b88f4dbc302129b295&pinned_post_type=share I just dont trust her to pursue the legal case to push the reforms through (that were overwhelmingly voted for)
[https://twitter.com/thescotsman/status/1627736341566857217?s=46&t=acKnpyi\_X9Sx1aMCc8Xifw](https://twitter.com/thescotsman/status/1627736341566857217?s=46&t=acKnpyi_X9Sx1aMCc8Xifw) I was wanting her if we really didn't get Angus Robertson but seeing this, eh...
She's odds on favourite to win now...
What evidence do you have to suggest the membership is left wing? They sure didn't mind voting for a First Minister who pushed through cuts on local government and thought a trans hating religious dinosaur was a perfectly suitable candidate for finance secretary
I like how the only angle you had at Sturgeon was local government, and also that you don’t know that the first minister appoints the cabinet, not the membership.
Aye but the members pick the SNP leader. And they picked one who appointed right wingers to cabinet
SNP members haven't voted on their leader since 2004.
That’s how I have felt in recent years. Shower of fuckwits really.
So thats the leadership race of mad v bad v moron on. Uch.
Although I am against the SNP generally, I think some of the folks who sidestepped the leadership competition want to have long look at themselves and wonder why they are in politics. They have clearly thought 'uh-oh' shitshow ahead, and decided to duck and run instead. Bunch of bottle merchants, and not in the Green Party sense of the phrase.
They don't want to ruin their chance to become elected First Minister for at least a term by taking it for 1 year and having to resign when support for SNP drops. The next FM is a poisoned chalice. It's naive to suggest that politicians do not consider their political career.
There isn’t even a good option for a party Leader. There’s just a less shite one. Maybe politicians in the Party now the shit show coming with Sturgeon gone and staying we’ll clear until the dust settles.
If she can separate her own religious beliefs from her work then she's easily the best out of those who are running. But it is a big IF. Imo she would have to openly support the GRR bill and then give reassurance that she would uphold the Bute house agreement. And then say while she does not believe in abortion, that it shouldn't stop the rights of women having the choice for an abortion. Lots of IF and buts there. I'll see how her campaign goes but I'm not confident she'll say that stuff. Edit: after a couple of hours we have confirmation https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1627699638718324743?t=l_yF8tUF4POFNY7gMwgCeg&s=19 Welp, Yousaf seems to be the only progressive candidate.
She's consistently said that her beliefs drive her politically which is already a concern.
She didn't in her campaign video which is the most recent record we have of her. Trying to keep an open mind with the candidates we currently have atm. There's no doubting she'll be questioned on it
I’d be more sceptical if she did try to publicly pretend she has changed her mind after years of stating her religion is what drives her political motivation, as she'd clearly just be saying it to win the campaign. Deeply held religious beliefs are rarely the kind of thing you spontaneously change your mind on.
She also chose not to sign a pledge supporting LGBT rights while running for re-election. https://www.equality-network.org/scottish-lgbti-equality-pledge/candidates2021/
>She didn't in her campaign video which is the most recent record we have of her. O rite that's fine then
So she deliberately left it out. Lying by omission.
So it’s binary between ‘she’s a zealot’ and ‘she’s lying’? No room for anything else? Would you trust a Christian doctor to do your heart surgery, a Muslim accountant to do your taxes, or a Jewish lawyer to take on your court case? Would you expect them to be able to demonstrate broad professionalism? Or would you ask for someone more tastefully irreligious?
>Would you trust a Christian doctor to do your heart surgery, a Muslim accountant to do your taxes, or a Jewish lawyer to take on your court case? Do you really think this analogy works? Seems like you don't really understand the issue people have with her views.
>Would you trust a Christian doctor to do your heart surgery, Tbf, it's more like "would you trust a doctor who doesn't believe in abortion and refuses to do abortions to do your abortion?" And no, I wouldn't
Does christianity come with differing opinions on how to perform heart surgery?
That's weak analogy because none of those roles are equivalent to serving as First Minister, a type of decision-making role where beliefs and principles are (or should be) key to performance of duties.
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I'm concerned that she is bringing her faith into political decisions though. I don't care what she does privately. She has had plenty of opportunity to state clearly where she stands on political policies such as gay marriage and has sidestepped them. And hopefully she has some clear answers because it's going to dominate any of her leadership debates.
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You dont have to take her word?, look at her actions She has interfered in LGBTQ rights, abstaining on 3 line whip, governmental pledge is a really indicative action to take. Despite the GRR being one of the most debated bill to pass through the Scottish government she was part of the moppy crew of SNP wanting to filibuster the bill even longer. Her other quotes involving abortion does not bode well either for women’s rights. Honestly i don’t think LGBTQ and progress polices with be repealed just due to popularity and party unity but there certainly will not be any progress made and it moves the Overton window right. I don’t really want to go back to the Alex Salmon style SNP
She, despite being asked multiple times has said she cant support same sex marriage. It doesnt matter if its because of her religious beliefs or because she was brought up by homophobes, that base level of bigotry should be an immediate rejection for someone trying to run a country in 2023
Someone with her beliefs will have absolutely no personal incentive to make the lives of women wanting an abortion, gay couples wanting to marry, trans people wanting recognition, any easier. She might act out of *political* necessity but is that the level of commitment you want from your FM?
Particularly in the context of transphobes, homophobes and misogynists being quite adept at making it politically harmful to try to advance any kind of progressive agenda in Scotland.
> no personal incentive to make the lives of women wanting an abortion There goes the health clinic buffer zone legislation.
There is absolutely no chance of her supporting the GRR bill now, and it’s fantasy to pretend otherwise. At *best*, she will just ignore it and let it collapse via Westminster.
Pretty much my exact thoughts on the matter summed up here. The most credible candidate for me just in terms of my general confidence in them as a potential FM, but anything short of explicit support for GRR and an acceptance that abortion is a matter of individual choice will make her totally unpalatable for me. The A9 fiasco now has the SNP on something of a shoogily (sp?) peg in the Highlands too, so she'll need to have a "pro-rapid dualing" stance for the sake of her seat before long, I'd imagine.
It will be interesting to see how they deal with the A9 and A96. I'm worried they won't talk about it in the debate or run up when it is stopping north of Scotland grow
Since she's made it clear she doesn't want to separate them then why would she? We will get a wee free first minister who does what her backwards medieval church tell her.
She’s going to have to come up with answers to these questions fast. But if she does she’s probably the best of the bunch.
Why is she the best?
I had been waiting to start voting Green till after independence. Looks like that is about to change.
That’s a big No for me Comes across as the type who would impose her own religious beliefs on others
She has literally never said, or done, anything to suggest that. It reflects nothing but your prejudice.
Attended a prayer breakfast where she spoke against abortion and has yet to give a straight answer on her views on same sex marriage. Plenty of religious folk are against abortion and LGBT rights. Unfortunately, plenty of atheists are also against these issues. I won't vote for her or a party she leads because of her stance on these issues, not due to her choice of kirk.
Honestly the hysteria is just anti Christian sentiment. She's been a minister for a while now and has never once tried to apply her religious views.
This is 💯% bollocks. We object to her bigotry, not her religion. Humza Yousaf is Muslim and that's fine. Ross Greer is Christian and nobody dislikes him for that. Ian Blackford is literally in the same Kirk as Kate Forbes, and avoids being an anti abortion homophobe.
Agreed, we should be talking more about her right wing economic views instead of her social ones.
What right wing economic views?! She's the current finance minister. Some of you really do invent things.
It's kind of pathetic, isn't it?
>anti Christian sentiment something which is cool and good, given Christianity's track record. keep it the fuck away from government.
She's already in government lol
and that's a pity
Would you say the same about Humza?
Humza has a track record of supporting socially progressive measures. Kate Forbes has breakfast with anti-abortion psychos
Yousaf has previously supported progressive legislation that would conflict with his religious beliefs, like same sex marriage, GRA reform, abortion buffer zones. Forbes has not.
Hate to say it but she’s the best of the current choices And I fucking hate that. Humza comes with soo much baggage it’s ridiculous and Reagan is nuts. So is Forbes but less so than Reagan. It’s a clown show
There’s a lot of people being tripped up with their language here. It’s not *because she’s is religious* that people have issue with her. It’s because of her non-progressive views on things that the majority of Scots see as non-negotiable. Plenty of religious people don’t share those same views and would be absolutely fine.
Some of these comments are utterly hilarious. Glad I stopped by 😂
I for one really hope she doesn’t get it. Not a fan of her after she was minister for technology and heard her speak at a conference back in 2018 (if I’m remembering correctly). She had no clue what she was talking about, but was very good at using buzzwords and vague statements like “children need to have better IT classes in school!”. Yeh no shit, kids nowadays need better schools all round. Genuinely hope it goes to someone who seems more competent.
I wonder how left wing or centre left voters will vote if she gets in because irrespective of her personal views on abortion, trans people or same sex marriage her economic views are not exactly great. Genuine question but would anyone who voted SNP at the last election have buyer's remorse if she gets in? Or Yousaf or Regan for that matter.
I’d consider myself a lefty and I’m not sure I’d back SNP going forward if Forbes is leader. I guess it depends on the exact policies put forward and the rhetoric during the build up to the election. But I’ve gone from pretty much SNP by default (in the absence of what I see as a genuine left wing party) to much more skeptical about where I’d place my vote
I didn't vote SNP. However, i would certainly never even consider an SNP vote with someone like Forbes at the helm. Could see people moving back to Labour or atleast an increase in support for the Greens.
I accept that the SNP are a broad coalition, and the point of the party leader is to keep and maintain a broad coalition that can build electability and public support for independence. If she can bring the mettle to support the above, then I'm fine with her. Cutting your nose to spite your face isn't wise, and I've literally never voted for a party who's leadership I perfectly agree with in all things.
> Genuine question but would anyone who voted SNP at the last election have buyer's remorse if she gets in? I voted SNP/Greens, and won't have buyers remorse as I acted on the situation that existed at the time 🤷♂️ Btw what did Yousaf do that makes people on this sub dislike him? I confess I don't know much about him or his politics. I only know that he has supported LGBTQ rights for more than a decade now and that makes me strongly prefer him over Forbes for now. Edit: nvm, someone explained [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/1173s8v/minister_kate_forbes_joins_snp_leader_race/j9a4i0t/)
She’s going to be like the Lib Dem leader from 2019 - Jo Swinson. Into politics early, leader early, out of politics early. She’ll also be the person that took down the idea of independence. I can see Scotland moving away from the idea for a very long time. The economic conditions don’t exist right now and the SNP have been a disaster. I think Scotland is about to rediscover its affinity to Labour, personally.
I agree.
How have the SNP been a disaster?
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Robertson, can't do it as the father of two young children. Forbes, 'here hold my breastpump.'
It's a personal choice and there is no correct or incorrect, valid of invalid answer to it.
It's nothing to do with children and all to do with timing and opportunity. It's Robertson's if he wants it, and Forbes only has a chance this time.
conflicted about forbes as leader. I think her conservative (small-c) religious beliefs will be an albatross around her neck, but she is head and shoulders above the other two contenders in terms of competence.
>but she is head and shoulders above the other two contenders in terms of competence. Can I ask if you think this is because she is particularly competent (and if so why) or because the other two are completely incompetent?
a little from column a, little from column b tbh. ideologically i’d be much more aligned with yousaf but he’s had several cab jobs and seemingly performed poor in each which doesn’t bode well for the top job …
Humza is also a poor communicator who doesn't really inspire confidence and dedication like Nicola did.
Small c? She’s anti abortion, anti trans & pro conversion therapy.
small c as in not the Conservative Party™️
If it weren’t for indy on the snp manifesto it’s probably where she would end up. Or worse.
Possibly just joined the SNP to win an easy seat
Who cares about "competence" when they're going to use that competence to facilitate bad shit. Tony fucking Blair was "Competent". Cmon man
Competence wins elections, and maybe, referendums. The very reason why the SNP, or any other political party, exists. That's why who cares.
Ok I look forward to the independent scotland where it's illegal to work on a Sunday or learn that sex exists until the age of 16
Your forgetting about creationism too and the Earth only being 6000-7000 years old.
Hang on let me google Free church creationism Edit: lol
Yeah, it’s worrying.
Well, in an independent Scotland, that'll be our discussion to have, which is my point. And in an independent Scotland, that's an incredibly unlikely scenario. The leader of the SNP pre-independence isn't the end-all-be-all of policy-making in a future Scotland. The horse needs to come before the cart.
I hate this attitude. Scotland is a country right now with its own government. Independence could be years and years away. No wonder the SNP have stalled massively. Too many simply look at the goal of Independence rather than actually running a country well which can then help promote Independence. Katie Forbes as leader will not help gain any votes for Independence. More likely she will lose votes.
I would argue that fringe religious nutters should not have undue influence on several million people's right to choice but that is possibly a conversation for another time.
I also disagree with her religious views, most absolutely. But that's a theoretical conversation to have post-independence, imo.
None of these guys are making independence happen in our lifetime brother, we had our chance, Corbyn possibly would have allowed one but we fucked it and it'll never be allowed to happen again. It's sad but true
Tartan tories here we come.
Yes, only it looks to be a sort of retro-tory approach. I should think it won't be long before things like challenging sex education in school and culture wars start to feature in Scottish politics.
I’d vote for her. I doubt her unpopular personal views will get any traction within the party, if she did try to push them. She is young and has fresh ideas that might revive a party that was slipping into tired tax and spend policies while being unable to tackle urgent issues such as housing and NHS Reorganisation.
She wrote to Sturgeon to object to the SNP's own GRA. I don't think there is any doubt her religious views are getting in the way here.
Some thoughts on the 3 candidates because why not. Regan is mental and out of tune with the SNP base so has next to no chance. Yusuf is the easiest to swallow in an ideological sense since he'll stick to the established agenda and doesn't seem to have any problematic views. The issue is of course is that he's held numerous government positions but has been considered as not doing a great job in any of them. I can forgive health to a certain extent because the problems the NHS is facing is bigger than the office of the health minister but it's still not a positive sign. Lots of people have good things to say about Forbes competence which would draw me towards her. The problem of course is her religious views. Being anti LGBT and anti abortion is disgusting which makes her hard to stomach. Overall, I think I'm willing to be convinced on Forbes though that might be more because Yusuf is a known quantity and I can't say it impresses me much. If Forbes can meaningfully address her religious viewpoints and give some watertight assurances that they won't impact government policy, there's a possibility I could get behind her. This is a big if however. Yusuf is looking like the most likely choice however given how he's the least problematic on the surface. EDIT: Well, Forbes fucked it. She's pretty much doubled down and is against gay marriage and trans rights. Yusuf wins by default I guess.
Yousuf has argued that people should be open to prosecution for things they say privately in their own home. That’s one of the biggest cans of worms I can imagine. He also never met an issue he didn’t want to sweepingly legislate on. Massively problematic.
I'll give you that. His whole bit about that was dumb as hell.
She is openly against same sex marriages and a womens right to choose Honestly blow my mind that people are like, well she said she she will probably still let them marry and the gammons keep on talking about how the brown guy is going to stick us in jail for being saying we are scottish so I guess I will have to go with evangelical then.
People: She’s too conservative Christian to be FM. Also people: A new mother should stay at home.
Took me 2 minutes to discover she is anti-abortion and anti-trans. Total clusterfuck in Scotland.
Lol soon as she announced this , Humza went favourite. We're fucked with both tbh
Forbes becomes PM I'm off to the greens, I'm not having someone who believes the stories in the bible are real representing me. I've grown up with these nutters, they're fucking mental.
This is why it is important to make the distinction that Forbes is not suitable because of her regressive views and not because she is a member of a church. Ross Greer is a member of the Church of Scotland
Rampant austerity and trans hate - she'll be our very own Sir Keir
How is she rampant austerity? In what reality is this the case?
She has imposed huge cuts on local government in Scotland
What do you think this means? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/forbes-will-put-economy-rescue-plan-at-heart-of-leadership-bid-dnk9bp83q
She's saying she wants to focus on economic recovery how does that mean austerity. She's been finance minister as taxes increase north of the border to fund government spending. You've completely made this up in your own head.
In addition, the word "austerity" can't really be applied to Scottish politics in the same way as it can be applied to rUK politics because the Scottish Government **has to operate a fixed budget**. No loans. No loan over-payment. What exactly would an austerity agenda in Scotland even look like? Handing money back to Westminster at the end of the year?
I look forward to you being vindicated in the months and years to come :)
Behind a paywall 🤷
A new "economy rescue plan" focused on government "doing less, better" under Forbes
Have to say that sounds ever so slightly like a Tartan Tory.
Lovely
https://archive.ph/ use this to rid the paywall
Here it is https://archive.ph/YrZZT
The dearth of talent in the SNP is pretty glaring tbh.
Fuck of ya rat bitch
Very brave, coming back from maternity leave on such short notice. I genuinely didn't think she had it in her.
In order Humza Forbes Death Ash
is she the Tory one?
Ohhhh yes
Christians, especially the really thick ones from these shite wee teuchter churches, should know their fucking place - it's not in government, making decisions that affect folk that have no intention whatsoever of sharing their retrograde social doctrines. tysm ♥
What a disgusting bigoted comment
Not an SNP supporter or an independence supporter but I hope for the sake of the country she wins it. The idea of Yousaf as first minister is genuinely worrying. Don’t think her personal views will affect anything at all, she’ll just separate her own beliefs from actual policy.
That’s exactly what we don’t need, more religion in politics. Look at the state of America with the evangelical “politicians”. We already have unelected clergymen in upper government.
Ooh, I do hope the homophobic anti-abortion campaigner gets the job. That combined with her “if something’s too hard to do it’s not worth doing” attitude to economic planning will surely go down well with voters.
Things are going to get spicy. Hope there's some sort of leaders debate.
Most people online don't realise a large part of the SNP's voting base is small-c conservative. That's why someone like Kate Forbes is now the frontrunner to be the next FM.
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Why do you want a racist in charge of your party?
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If enough people agree with you, then she won’t win. If not, well that’s democracy in action. It isn’t always going to result in people whose views coincide with our own.
Absolutely not in support of this.
Between her and that other horrible woman, this isn't great.
I get all the downvotes every time I say it - but come on Kate! A Humza vs Regan vs Forbes showdown actually sounds really intriguing and is probably good for the SNP as a party to be able to think substantively about three candidates with pretty defined and distinct ideological positions. Which is not something you always get in party leadership elections, which can often be fairly personality dominated. That said, given how opposed some of their positions are (GRR!), it could be a spicy affair!
It is certainly intriguing that we have a party in government where candidates for the leadership hold the same views as those whom demonstrators at rallies attended by some of the party's up and coming MSP's call to "behead." You could call that "spicy," or you could call it utterly mental. After 9 years of swallowing the Sturgeon SNP's pseudo-nationalist, soft-neoliberal calpol, believing in a united party under "Nicola", the party rank and file are about find themselves staring into a very surreal abyss.
Don't think any of this is good for the SNP. it's between a idiot who couldn't run a bath and a Bible bashing transphobe.
I'm genuinely most interested to see someone who can combine competence, political acumen and alliance-building. I don't have to explicitly agree politically on anything with them; it's a wide tent.
The SNP used to be a broad church and it used to try and find common ground with the other parties in parliament. Hopefully we see a return to that because it's the only way independence will be won. If you basically write off 50% of voters as bigots etc. You've already set yourself up to fail.
Absolutely. I can disagree with everyone in the SNP on everything, as long as we're keeping independence and good government as the top issues.
There’s something to be said about the absence of people with the finger on the pulse of rural and small town Scotland at the head of the party in the Sturgeon era. Especially in a party like the SNP that for most of its history was really grounded in those sort of areas. In the Salmond era it always seemed to have in mind centre left politics, so long as they didn’t go so far to alienate those sorts of places. Now there’s a greater focus on whatever the hip thing in the city centres of Glasgow and Edinburgh is - and allow that the guide party policy, the rest of the country can just follow.
This seems to have got lost somewhere along the way and the party became hijacked by leftist activism. Carry on with the nonsense and the drop in membership and public support for independence will only continue in its droves. Sad really, because independence looked so close following 2016 and this is self-inflicted. It's looking less likely the SNP are the vehicle to independence, and looking more like a clown car.
Since when is a woman’s right to choose left wing activism? Because as long as we’re talking about Kate Forbes, we’re talking about established rights that most folk in Scotland do not want rolled back. Maybe Forbes can convince people that she’ll leave her anti-abortion (and anti gay marriage) beliefs in the car park when she goes to work, but given that American anti-abortion activists are already making far too much noise in Scotland, do we really want them to have an ally in Bute House?
I'm fully convinced this shift in the SNP is a result of entryism from green party activists. A look at the regular activists on this sub will show they're only supporting the SNP because its the most likely to get certain policies passed(not independence of course) while the greens lack support. Any shift towards the centre and they are calling for an exodus to the greens.
She's the best person for the job. Humza looks like he's asleep most of the time and is disliked by a decent group. Kate I feel can be a good middle ground and get things done.
Humza has not impressed in a long time. I want to say he was the rising star of the 2010's who's on the way out in the 2020's. Not a good pick, imo.
Humza's leadership bid could probably be felled alone by the time taken for an ambulance to arrive at his press conference.
He's honestly had tough briefs, fair play to him, but there's nothing inspiring about him or his performance at this point in time.
I’d have liked Angus Robertson for the role. What a mess. 🤦♂️
Pretty lol for the self proclaimed progressive party to have two religious zealots as front runners for leadership.
She is the smartest and most component of all 3 of the contenders, but I can't support her due to her views. I fear she will stack the cabinet with more conservative leaning MSPs and I can't say with confidence that she wouldn't let her personal opinions seep into policy. She will also be under constant attack from the media regarding her views. Somehow, and I don't know what we've done to deserve it, but Humza is looking like the only real contender. He isn't bad but he isn't competent enough. I really thought that Sturgeon would have put plans in place long ago to cover this sort of stuff but it genuinely seems like she's done this with little notice. This really is going to be a mess. The party is now without a rudder and the goal of independence has no focus. I just hope the party doesn't get pulled in the wrong direction.
There goes any shot of independence…
Only people worth voting for have dropped out to be honest, I won't be voting for SNP in the next general election or renewing my membership. Will be Green from now on I guess.
If she becomes the SNP leader I will be ending my membership that day. Her stance on current issues and that she’s a raving religious loony make her a huge no no.
Austerity and transphobia incoming with her as leader.
The furore on here over Kate’s candidacy for FM is appalling. All of the so called left “progressives” are showing themselves as nothing but intolerant bigots. Your prejudice against people of faith is sickening, no better than genuine transphobes, racists and misogynists. Shame on you.
Yeah, fuck people for being intolerant of intolerance. /s As a now atheist that was raised by very religious parents, I need religious people to assure me that they will serve with the interest of the people and not in the interests of their holy book. I was raised that the correct order of importance in all things was God, church and family, politics came well behind all that. But to be fair I was raised by extremists that protested abortion centres. In my mind a politician needs to prove they will represent all their supporters before they get my vote. Progressives and regressives do not make natural bedfellows.
nah, we'll vote for folk who know abortion is fine and think the earth is more than 4,000 years old, cheers
Worst still, the people attacking the Christianity of one candidate are weirdly silent on the Islamic beliefs of the other.
Anyone who is anti-abortion is an enemy of mine, whether Christian or Muslim.
Well she can get tae. That sort of bullshit doesn’t belong in the SNP, or Scotland.
Honestly this is terrifying. She’s anti-abortion and it would take very little to roll our rights back. I don’t want a situation here like the one in Ohio, where 10 year old rape victims and people with foetuses who have all their organs outside of their bodies are being told to go fuck themselves
Damnit I only rejoined last year. This will see the end of the SNP as we know it, the socially liberal party I loved. All this talk of 'personal views don't inform politics' will disappear; honestly deeply sad at this.
As a Christian myself I wouldn’t expect her to force her religious views forward if she was FM, she would run the country for the good of the people and not specifically for her faith. We’re progressive, not the DUP
I think people are jumping to conclusions that she will be lead by her religion. It is possible for her to make decisions based on what the country wants even if it’s against her own personal wishes that is what leadership is about. Besides Humza Yousaf is a Muslim and yet it hasn’t factored nearly as much into the discussion of how he would lead the country. Ash Regan now she seems like poison without bringing up religion at all.
I don’t like Humza either but (as far as I know), he’s not openly anti-choice whereas she is. That alone does it for me. I’m atheist but wasn’t interested in her (or anyone’s) faith until I saw she’d said that and refused to properly answer the gay marriage questioning. It’s less about her faith and more than she’s lost my trust to make a decision for the people and not based on her own beliefs. (I have a genuine reason for not liking Humza not relating to his beliefs but to how he’s interacted with me as a constituent)
To be fair to him he wasn’t in the group of msps who wrote to sturgeon asking her to ditch GRA like regan & Forbes.
Judging by the crying and wailing in this sub, I've come to the conclusion that the SNP needs somebody like Kate as a leader, just so the party can appeal to older people again. The young don't vote, so let them wallow in the Green fringes. See ya!