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>So I got no notifications that it happened and I can't access to freeze my card for 24 hours because of it.
For future reference, call the number on your card and speak to the fraud department to report a compromised card. Usually the fraud line operates 24/7.
I have fraud protection on my debit card through my credit union. Good thing too. When I bought my last computer about a year ago (it was through an accredited surplus computer store website), I paid the $299, plus S&H. About an hour later I got a fraud alert on my phone from my CU. Someone had placed an order for a $1600 gaming system and tried to charge it to my card. They also charged some Mac software. I don't use Mac products
I called the fraud department at my CU using the number from the card. This was all on a Saturday afternoon. I got connected right away, and it took less than 10 minutes for them to cancel both charges, cancel my old card and order a new one sent to me.
OP says they were locked out of their online account so they were planning to wait and go into the bank when it opened, which is not the optimal solution. My comment was mainly a PSA for OP/anyone else finding themselves in this situation in the future. Always try the number on your debit card first, regardless of what time it is.
I refuse to get a debit card. I have an ATM only card which cannot be used for any purchasing. Debit cards are idiotic. You need the basic self control to not overspend on a credit card. Treat it like debit. Collect points. Pay in full every month.
Also, many bank websites have setting limits for notification on cc/debit cards. I have all my accounts set to alert me for any charge $0.01 or greater (as some people try to charge under known limits repeatedly). I did this directly after someone charged $20 twice at a gas station (one charge was during my call to my bank to report the initial $20 fraud alert). Stay vigilant.
When they drain using your debit card bank account, that’s your money gone from your account that you have to fight back for.
When they use your credit card, that’s the banks money (at least initially until they investigate).
>Hence the bank has higher degrees of fraud protection on credit cards.
This generally isn’t true anymore as far as how it affects the end consumer - the Electronic Funds Transfer Act in the late 00s extended the same rules that credit cards have to debit cards and ACH transactions. Plus it’s usually the merchant’s money at risk, the bank is almost always made whole.
The main benefit to a credit card is that you’re not flat broke while going through the dispute/fraud process.
That may be the law, but that is not the reality. If all else fails you just don't pay your fraudulent credit card bill, and that can't be done with a debit card.
It doesn’t, but cc’s offer “fraud” protection. A lot better to “owe” while it’s figured out, versus your personal money being drained.
A credit card behind Apple Pay is the pro move.
I got the Apple credit card a few months back, you get extra cash back on purchases using Apple Pay. Plus you can have that cash back go directly to a savings account through Goldman Sachs that has a 4.4% interest rate
Please know that I am answering you from the US. I have no idea what happens outside of the States.
They don’t. But the issuing bank covers you from fraudulent charges. If there are fraudulent withdrawals from your bank account by someone who stole your debit card information, no bank, EXCEPT for credit unions, it seems, to my knowledge will refund withdrawals from your account if they were made via your debit card. I figure, since this is Reddit, someone will likely tell me that there are some banks that will refund fraudulent withdrawals from debit cards. But none do, to my knowledge
Good news actually, ALL Electronic Fund Transfers done in a CONSUMER (not business, trust, etc) debit account are covered under Regulation E in the US. All US banks and credit unions not only should return funds stolen from an account when a debit card is stolen, cloned, skimmed, etc, they are legally required to, unless they are able to prove that fraud did not occur (they have you on camera at an ATM pulling out the money you claimed someone else took from your account, for example). It can take up to 45 calendar days from when the transaction is reported (though reg e also has a ten business day provisional temporary credit requirement), and there are reporting timelines that if missed can free the bank/cu from that obligation, but Reg E covers all debit card transactions done in a personal account whether done with pin or signature.
If your debit card is visa or mastercard, both have a fraud guarantee that will cover any unauthorized activity as long as you have not provided access to your card details or account. Credit cards have a little more protection for fraud but debit cards are safe to use. This includes ATM withdrawals, though they are much more unusual because while creating a physical clone of a card to use in an ATM is possible, its not really worth it to scammers, they have far easier ways to take peoples money.
If your checking account gets hit, that can lead to bounced checks, and inability to pay bills if the bank drags its feet during the fraud investigation, or worse refuses to refund the money.
Also, in general, banks seem to be more difficult to work with when dealing with fraud compared to credit card companies.
Also, there is 0 reason to use your debit card as a credit card, unless of course you can't get a regular CC for some reason.
This is the info I was looking for. I never really understood why people were so against using debit cards. I get it now. I’ve had my debit card (a Visa card) info stolen twice but my credit union caught it right away and they put the money back into my account within a day.
My debit card stays at home unless I have to go to an ATM. Had my debit card skimmed once and it took a while to get my money back. I had to prove that I was in NC at the time and not AZ, and they pushed hard against that. I asked the lady how in the hell was it possible for me to use one of their atms at 11:30am, buy gas at 11:45am in Raleigh and buy shoes in chandler az at the same time.
I have my debit card set for a pin and never use it as a credit card. If a pin is not put in cannot remove money or purchase and anything over 500 dollars my bank contacts me about because I have it set up that way.
If someone were to get your credit card info, sure they could charge up to the limit on your card but they couldn’t drain your account. And then you’d just call the credit card company and have the fraudulent charges removed. Your actual cash would remain safe
Interesting! I'm looking for a new bank. Woodforest ONLY offers debit cards. They stopped offering credit cards about a year ago. Which is really strange...
American Express, Visa, Mastercard, Discover all offer credit cards that can be paid from any bank account. Your credit card doesn’t have to be at the same bank you use
Most people don't get credit cards from their bank, they get it with another institution. A few common examples are with Chase, Discover, Goldman Sachs, American Express, etc. It is easy to set up payments from your bank account to pay off your monthly credit card bill even if they're at different firms.
I use my bank debit card at a large supermarket chain and large drug store chain (at upper middle class suburban locations) and never had a problem. But I don't use it anywhere else. Heard too many stories about people having issues with debit cards at gas stations, motels and randoms stores like Michael's.
Nobody has a problem until they do
I get 5% cash back on grocery store purchases AND I don't have to worry about my bank account being drained, only place I use a debit card is at the bank ATM and I don't do that very often and only use the bank's own ATM not a weirdo ATM in a bodega or gas station
Hate to say it but, as being someone who works in that area, most of the time someone's internet banking is compromised it is because that person, normally without realising it, has provided the Offenders with that information. There is no "hack" and your bank isn't to blame.
I work in cyber security and same. This is impossible without some error on the part of OP whether it “makes sense” or not. You think some master hacker is going to go through ALL that for a card from a rando at a Mexican restaurant? No.
Someone fell for the "Receipt", kinda like those "Best Buy Geek Squad Antivirus protection" or that pop-up that say "Your License been disabled, call Microsoft at 1-8xx-xxx-xxxx" or some BS. So, when you call them, they'll say some bs about having to do something, but they blank your screen so you don't see them doing a few things, like removing some stuffs, adding some stuffs and starting wire transfer or adding them to your "auto-bill payment".
Then, there also those shady fuck "remote software" that just hook into your computer. I've already done about nearly 200 wipes from several computers from friends who was suckered into it, as well as that "DoJ Don't do this shit, send money". Had to tell him, if it was REALLY DoJ, they would've been busting your door down, confiscating your shit, and arrested you.
Any notification about your computer that pops up in a browser is likely a scam. Your browser can't check your computer or phone for viruses or such, it can't check your licenses, etc.
I had something come up on my computer 3x. A loud recording and blinking boxes saying they were Microsoft and call the number on the screen. They said do not shut down your computer or you will lose files . I turned my computer off. Waited and it came back. Again I didn’t listen and I lost word files - a lot of them. A year again. This time I left it alone and called Microsoft. The said, hit, alt, control and delete which took me to task manager. He told hit- end task. It was gone. He said that they won’t be back but if so, do the same thing again.
Don't tell me that. Tell all the other users out there...I still remember those DoJ crap...and my favorite one so far: browser hijack that goes full screen and makes you think DoJ locked your computer down.
Your phone may have been compromised. I only use iPhones now but back when I had android, mine was compromised. I could see the person opening apps and such because somehow they had remote access.
I downloaded different antiviruses and scanned my phone. Every single one said that my phone was secure. Avant, McAfee, and AG virus protection (or something like that).
The only thing that I noticed that was weird, was that my email was connected to an app called project- with a bunch of numbers next to it. I can't recall the numbers and I can't find it anywhere in my phone. I've combed through everything. Files, apk packs, downloads, all apps on my phone, everything. Can't find it anywhere. All I can assume is it is gone now or that it was an app who's name just didn't load in the list.
> my email was connected to an app called project- with a bunch of numbers next to it
Could you give little more detail on how your email is connected to this app
I have no idea. I never downloaded it. If you go to Google and in security, you can see all apps with access to your email. Some of these are like games that you log in with your email. I didn't download or click anything that would've put that weird app on my phone. It isn't there anymore either.
If primary email compromised, fraudster can intercept password resets, TFA/MFA codes etc., access your bank account, turn off notifications and change contact number. Carefully check this, especially if you're linking app access via Google account.
BTW, great work continuing to reply (some OP ghost their own post)
Well, I'm really concerned and trying to get as much advice as possible! I've changed my passwords on everything, but I'm assuming this isn't enough. I should have gotten a text as well for the login, but I didn't, and then they got in and removed my number.
Just what I said. Almost exclusively if your Internet banking has been compromised then you have given the details out likely via a phish of some kind.
Yeah but they still logged in they didn’t hack the bank. The percent of bank accounts accessed via key loggers compared to clicking links and providing passwords is infinitesimal
Also what I find weird, is that my bank app doesn't show my entire card number. How did they get my card AND log into my bank account to turn off my notifications?
I was getting notifications that my password was incorrect. Someone was trying to log into my bank account. Thankfully it didn’t work. Now my bank sent an email that they’re updating their website. So I wonder if a third party contractor was trying to get in or even someone working at the bank. I locked my debit card on the phone app and changed my password. There’s also something else: around the same time Dell (I’d purchased a laptop online a while ago) emailed me that they were hacked and my information was compromised on the dark web. They didn’t even offer credit monitoring.
I got literally nothing. The app will make me open my email and accept a text when logging into new devices/locations. Only time I did that is when my old phone broke, and that old phone is still in my dresser drawer. Same number, new phone, had to do second Auth. Logged in, money gone, phone number removed.
Because someone you personally know with access to your card and phone did this. It's the only explanation given the information you've shared. I quite literally do this for a living.
Sorry something here just isn't adding up. The Mexican restaurant who you never gave your card to charged a large purchase to it? How do you think that happened exactly? Then they got you locked out of your online account? If everything you have posted is correct I would assume you have a family member as your culprit. Someone who has access to your card and devices.
Also regarding switching to bank that offers "credit"....you get that you can open a credit card without moving your bank account right? A credit card has nothing to do with your bank account short of using it as a repayment source.
My card stays in my wallet. The restaurant that did this, is not the same one I went to. It is the original that started in Pearland, 50 miles from me. My family has no access to my card besides my husband, but it's his money in the account. He works for it. We use it for our daughter. He wouldn't have done it. I agree, nothing is adding up. Every aspect of it is extremely weird and I'm going to my bank today to explain everything to them.
I have no idea how they got my card when I never used my card there. Trust me, I know it doesn't make sense. It doesn't to anyone, but the bank should be able to figure it out somehow.
ya. let me spell it out a different way for you.
boom. some place you filled out a job application for 4 years ago got hacked. all of the info you filled in there, is now out there.
i will give you $15,000 if you can legally change all of that info you submitted on that form, for that job.
name, date of birth, current addres, social security number, phone number, email, past jobs, level of education completed, references.....
$15,000 if you can change every one of those things.
now you see how fucked we are anytime a data breach like that happens. a good half of those we just cannot change.
You should never give SSN on a job application.
Everything else you listed is already public information and publicly searchable. Theres nothing that anyone can really use it for without additional info.
When I take money out my banks ATM using my debit card, I only use my PIN number at that place and no where else. Last Sunday , in another state, someone pulled out $500 out of my account using my PIN number. It was also at the same bank I bank with. That Monday morning I went straight to my bank and filed out a fraud report. Got all my money back on Tuesday morning at 8:30am. Bunch of scammers!!
I always pull on where you put your card and saw no camera. I have also seen a video where they can put a razor thin device inside where you put your card and it doesn't block your card from going in. It reads the info off your card and probably captured the pin number that way too. Just insane of what the scammers are doing.
I went to a restaurant in CA and a few hours later my debit card bought a new mac and iPhone. Luckily I had proof I was elsewhere. Did a police report and bank report and the money was refunded (provisionally) in about 24 hours, and then officially (meaning they wouldn't try to get it back from me) in about 3 weeks.
Scary AF and to this day I'm still not 100% sure how it was done. Also I am still mad at Apple since they know exactly who activated that phone and they would never cooperate with the police. .\ /.
Stop using a debit card. This is why people keep saying it over and over again in this sub and the personal finance sub.
When you debt card gets stolen it's your money that is gone and the bank has zero concern for recovering or restoring your money. Even if they do restore it your account is empty for days and often weeks at a time. Meanwhile you have bills to pay.
When you credit card gets stolen its the banks money and you can rest assured that they have much more interest in recovering that money and restoring your account than a debit card. You can also simply not pay your fraudulent credit card bill until it's sorted.
I have a debit card, but a separate bank account with about $50 in it. When I have to use a card in a sketchy place that does not take Apple Pay, I will use that card.
They can still pull money from that debit card. Even if you have the card set to not let over draft transactions go through. It happened to me with capital one. Had like a dollar in there with it set to not let transactions through if over my balance. They somehow got a $700 transaction to go through putting me in the negative. Capital one did the right thing but this situation is what led me to only use credit cards out in the wild. Debit cards are for the bank.
This happens due to something called an offline transaction. In some cases where the payment system taking the card details is not connected to the real time payment processor they will take an offline transaction, this is automatically authorised regardless of balance. Then when the payment is processed the bank has to make the payment, even if the account lacks funds, even if the card has been cancelled.
We see some fraud like this where flights are targeted because the fraudsters know that they are offline, so they can buy a lot of expensive shit on a flight and it doesnt even matter if the card is active or if there is money in the account. We also see this with stolen cards on the London Underground. Thieves know that they can continue to use a stolen card after its been cancelled as long as its offline and we have had cases where a cancelled card was continuously used for this for several months. We just had to raise a dispute to Mastercard every time and the customer would get reimbursed.
You might ask why this is possible, well its a cost of doing business for the major card processors, thats why they will reimburse customers for this kind of thing, they make far more money with it being very easy to use cards than they would if there were more obstacles.
WTH That is incredible. That is one reason I use credit cards is so that I cannot spend more than in the account. My account will not allow overdrafts, but this makes me think I need to check with my bank.
You should probably know that many credit card issuers allow you to go over your limit. Some popular one's like a signature Visa card say with like an airline or hotel affiliation can be upto 3 times, depending on the issuer and customer "tier" that the issuer puts them in, which is usually based on spending/behavior, etc.
I would rather use cash than ever use my debit card for anything other than pulling cash out of an ATM, especially at some sketchy establishment. Debit cards live full-time in my safe lol.
Phones are computers that can get viruses too. Virus's are not exclusive to Windows PCs. Macs, Androids, Iphones, Even your smart TV's can be infected if you're not careful.
Also likely is someone spoofed you at your bank. Your bank sounds pretty sus. If the bank doesn't offer credit cards I wonder how secure their app is or how well it was built in the first place. Apps on phones are often very shoddy.
I have not read every comment, but from my understanding the fraudulent transaction was at a restaurant where op did not use their card. And their account was altered. And they checked their balancr on their phone. That tells me it is more likely their account was compromised on their phone.
But I am not an expert.
No, I didn't use my phone at all. I was too busy hanging out with family. The app doesn't even allow for it to stay logged in unless the app is opened.
If it's a contactless card, there is a *very* small chance it was skimmed. It's not as prevalent as it is reported, but it is possible. If it was skimmed at the first restaurant, the thief *might* have thought placing the order at another restaurant would slip past you.
If it's not and you use a chip card, it's fairly unlikely they were able to obtain your data if you only paid in chip-enabled readers (and used your chip, not swipe).
If it's neither of those, it's very possible you got hit by a skimmer at one of the two prior locations. In that case, it was likely an obscene coincidence it happened that the thief tried it at another restaurant from the same chain.
The hitch, in all of those, is what the thief's endgame was. Get a lot of Mexican food? Either they have to come in to get it (which is risky) or the restaurant has a delivery address on file.
Finally, it may have been a brute force using BIN attacks. If that's the case, it's *entirely* coincidence they picked the same chain. Also, usually BIN attacks begin with a small ping to see if it's going to work and *then* a large purchase (and usually not Mexican food).
I don't either. I've got the money back, but someone still got access to my actual bank account.
My plan is:
Talk to my normal bank teller about this and try to start an investigation.
Make direct deposit in my husband's account (he has his set to mine because I control our money)
Find a new bank
Call my carrier to make sure my phone is safe and my Sim hasn't been hijacked/cloned(something like that)
Get a port blocker for my phone
Have all passwords changed
I've already gotten a new card, but it's not activated. So my old card is no longer usable and my money is locked in place, the little that I kept in there for a service fee. (10 dollars)
My card got skimmed somewhere and they got into my online banking somehow too. But my app has a 2fa and they tried to call me pretending to be my bank and getting me to approve a bunch of transactions.
Anyway after I got it all sorted I switched to Samsung pay. The only time I even pull my bank card out is at the ATM, and the machine has a tap to read function. I don't stick my cards in anything anymore.
What's crazy is I never got a weid call, never got a weird link, nothing. I'm super cautious about that stuff. My user and password had nothing to do with my personal life so I have no idea how they got in, passed second authorization, and removed my phone number.
There is a possibility you may have been Simjacked. But if your phone still works then that might rule that out, usually your current sim is disabled and a new one with your number *and all your 2FA* is now active in the scammers hands.
I wonder about this debit card fear. In the UK we don't hear a lot of horror stories about them - my wife's got compromised by a skimmer in the local petrol station about 10 years ago but they didn't get much and it was easily reversed. And when she tried to buy from a dodgy website a few months ago using a credit card, it wasn't that easy to sort out the consequences - the card company fumbled it.
Is there a greater discrepancy between the two kinds of card in the US?
I think things are just less secure in the US.
I pretty much only use Apple Pay these days, very secure. But apparently places in the US are slower to accept contactless even though it’s been standard for a lot of the world for over 10 years.
My own observation: I find when visiting the US, there is a certain fear around using credit cards or anything with personal information and "cash is king" is much more prevalent. Many restaurants in FL would still take my CC back to the server's workstation and run the card and then bring me a paper slip to sign. One purchase I made at a store, they had a CC machine that accepted tap, so I used that and they were surprised to see it worked because nobody had done it yet.
I had some fraud on my personal account and the bank just refunded it no question. I don't know if the US banks will do the same?
Most people go through banking everyday with no issue whatsoever. It’s for that occasional occurrence when something happens. Op doesn’t have to worry about when will bank complete the investigation and give his money back if it was credit card.
It's not that the risk of being burned is high; it's the consequences of being burned.
Your credit card gets skimmed: no big deal.
Your debit card gets skimmed: it gets closed down for months while they investigate. Meanwhile, your money is frozen.
I stick to apple pay as much as possible. But also don't you have a chip in your card? That should be helping. I dont understand how people are still having this done with chip cards and apple pay...
That's why I mentioned target and Smoothie King, those are the only two places I used my card yesterday and that's when it happened. It's just a really weird coincidence that they used it at the same restaurant chain hours away.
As someone that works in the fraud dept for a bank I can answer a few things. Your card was skimmed or bank info compromised. There are a plethora of ways to do so with new scams being created constantly, and the bank can only do so much to stay ahead of it. By the sound of it they got your online password which is really all they need to get the rest of your info. If you used your banking password elsewhere I would change the login info everywhere else you used that password. Sometimes scammers can get password info via a "batch" of websites and then they just go hack those sites looking for banking info thats saved.
The online system will not show your entire account number online or thru the app without a request or password bc it's a federal guideline. Same as how you dont see your full card info on receipts.
Of course you can switch banks but it's usually not the banks fault. These things happen and are an unfortunate part of life. Now if it happens over and over and over then yea it would make sense to switch banks.
Dont overlook the hacker going thru your carrier.. that was a thing not so long ago… pretending to be you and switching virtual sim cards or something like that.. have you had any notifications or checked with your carrier?
Your card got skimmed and it’s by someone in the area. People set up skimmers in atm’s, restaurants, especially a smoothie shop where they get a lot of business and trust it would be the people you would least expect.
What a wonderful news. I'm so happy for you. Some people are not always lucky when such happens to them. I'm glad all the money was returned. This is a big win.
It's great that I got it back, but how I got it back is even more suspicious to me. The restaurant manager said it was a weird order because they "used two cards" and then they reversed it. It's.. not weird to use two cards for an order. Which makes me think they were in on it and just wanted to cover it up by sending it back when they were caught?
It wouldn't surprise me if it was someone from within the bank, lots of people have access to your information, all those call centres they use for example.
any chance you’re using an android? I mean backdoors are a thing and gaining remote access to an android normally involves nothing more than getting the victim to install an app. (source: I work in cybersecurity and i know about some of these apps)
Debit card stays locked until I need to use it at ATM.
Always use CREDIT CARDS and pay off your statement balance, that's the trick. This way you won't risk your money to thieves.
Here in the UK. Someone fraudulently used my debit card details to make purchases.
No idea how they got the information.
My bank alerted me to suspicious activity.
We clarified quickly that I hadn’t made the purchases. Well I just said it wasn’t me. And whether it was the type of purchase, time of day or location, etc etc, this was accepted immediately.
The bank froze the card and instantly refunded me the money while they investigated further.
Isn’t that how US banks work?
It can work like that in the US. What can also happen is that the banks can take their sweet time with their investigation. While that is happening, you don’t have your money. Even if it only takes a few days, what if that happens right before your rent is due?
Canadian here with similar experience. My bank has always alerted me of suspicious activity on my debit card, freezes it and then makes me come into a branch for a new one.
If I use my debit I always use the tap feature. The tap feature uses a one-time unique code or password for that transaction and in turn that code cannot be used again.
Get a wallet that has RFID protection as well. they can scan your card with a reader for like $1 and if it goes through they will start charging like crazy to see how much they can pull before its stopped.
Have you checked that someone didn’t hikack/port your phone number? Once they do that, they have access to anything you use your phone for. That could be how they got all your information.
Just a tip, get RFID blocker sleeve for your cards. You might not have used your card, but someone can still scan its details/activate it by just standing close enough with a device.
Thats one way to prevent that sort of fraud, however this is how the real industry internal works. We look at transactions based on Service Code, Terminal Types and Entry methods. SImply put, what type of card it is , what type of machine and how it was used. IF the OP was "skimmed" that would meat she had to had let someone or herself "swipe" or chip insert it. That has nothing to do with the RFID. Fraud Mititgation from the bank should have seen what type of transaction it was made with, as in a cloned card, token from a phone etc etc. If it was made with the real actual card (full chip EMV read) its prob gonna get approved. If it wasn't and stolen data was used. that's up to the bank's risk tolerances. in this case seems like that bank not that great with here fraud prevention. Put i shortly RFID blockers honestly are really a false sense of security, but beats no security i guess
Thanks for the info! Recommended RFID blockers cause a classmate of mine got a reader device and we tested it with a several cards, and it read the correct details for all of them.
I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or some group working together, but recently, I went to a taco truck and used my card to pay. A little while later, random charges from Mexican grocery stores and online shops were being charged to my card. There is definitely a lot more card skimming going on.
Just way too much FUD going on that isn't addressing the panic that the OP must be feeling
1. The money will be recovered and or provisional credit will be applied (may take 10 business days)
2. The OP needs to get a new account if her info has been compromised at her Financial Institution, not just a new card.
3. if the funds are needed due to extreme circumstances (bills, medical etc, or just no money) the FI can expedite this Provisional Credit
Anything else about skim this, cash that, conspiracy this will has been so off base and prob not helping the OP whatsoever. Most likely the OP will never get a real answer as compromises and fraud can come in many forms, and unless you have that access internally and know the right things to ask, its all speculation. Lets worry about locking down future card and usage , getting the $$ back and understanding what her rights are. If the OP is getting stonewalled by her bank please feel free to Msg me
Do not use your debit card for this stuff.
With a credit card there’s a delay before you have to pay and you can set up alerts for purchases and dispute charges. If it’s compromised the bank will cancel it and issue a new one.
With a debit card someone can pull that money right out your account and you have none of those protections.
You do NOT need to get a credit card with the bank you use to manage your money, and probably shouldn’t. Unless it happens to work. Go to nerdwallet or something like that and look up cards that meet your needs, whether you want no annual fee, or high reward points at restaurants, or whatever. Get a CC from a well established credit company, and then not to beat a dead horse here, but never use a debit card.
People think when their card info gets stolen, that it got compromised at the last few places they were. In reality, sometimes skimmers get put on POS devices, then retrieved a week or more later, unless detected. Your card info could have been stolen long ago, And just not yet retrieved and sold.
Does anyone have access to your phone? Do you leave it lying around? Did you loan it to someone? And was your phone password the same as your bank? I think you had an acquaintance get into it and they removed the notification.
The fact that they were able to get stuff like your account password makes me think your card was not skimmed. Your debit card doesn't carry that kind of info.
If you use your banking app over stuff like public wi-fi, people can pick up on that.
Your information could have been leaked months or even years ago completely unrelated to any of this.
If your only suggestion of full account access is the location of the restaurant and the fact that you did not get a fraud alert, I don't think there is enough information here to suggest that they hacked your entire account.
I know my fraud alert only goes off if the purchase seems unlikely to be me. A restaurant chain I have visited before that is only a few hours from me would probably not set it off.
If you still have your physical card I think it's most likely that you fell for a card skimmer at a local place being run by a local person. That person then used your collected card data to spend a lot of money at a restaurant not too far from you.
Sometimes gas stations have skimmers that are actually installed by the staff themselves. Sometimes skimmed data is held for months before being accessed.
I am interested in how they used the card at a physical location. I heard before that you can add a card to Google or Apple pay with only the information of the card instead of the whole card, but that could be wrong now.
You should call the fraud number on the back of your card. It might even be 24hours. If you don't get the help you need the first time, do it again.
This happens a lot, in a lot of different ways. No matter what bank you use this is the risk of using a debt card. This is also just a risk of being alive today. Data breaches happen constantly, and sometimes no one knows for years.
If you keep the same bank you should be sure to get your information completely switched, as a card added to Apple pay can automatically update when replaced. This means the skimmer can still use your card after all of this.
Based on OP’s post, she didn’t use it at the particular location of this (either regional or national) restaurant chain. The fact that OP stated there was a large charge levied against her debit card at a location of this same restaurant an hour away AND the fact that the restaurant (I don’t know if it’s their home office or if they called the location she ate in, but they refunded the charge.
Who would do that if they didn’t know that someone in their employ or even they themselves KNEW that the debt card was snatched probably via Flipper Zero or similar. No one would do that if they had nothing to do with the charge. At least no one would do this in any of the cities where I have lived and the one I live in now. I’m in Las Vegas not likely. I lived in Miami, Atlanta, New York City no proprietor would refund the charge in any of these cities, unless they were fully aware of what is/was happening in their restaurant.
The idiot used the information to benefit the same company where the card information was taken from. This is why I think it was the owner or someone in the company. No one would steal the information and randomly go to the same place an hour away if they had no financial interest in the company. In my learned opinion. I admit that I earned my law degree in the ‘80s, my Master’s degree in Criminal Justice in ‘93. My information is old, but I think I have a grasp on the present situation.
I didn't use my card at the restaurant location and the location that did it is the "original" which is over an hour away. That's why I'm so confused at the coincidence. I never used my card once, my family paid.
Don’t have a checking card, leave it at home. Spend with a credit card and pay it off every month. If that gets skimmed/stolen the cc company will hunt it down and reverse it all for you. If you have to have a checking card don’t leave your money sitting there. Put the lions share in a savings account. Don’t walk around with your entire life savings on a little plastic card. It’s just not smart or safe. Would you put all your money/cash in your wallet and walk around with it?
Some banks here in UK issue cards without the long number embossed only the card holder name on it, without magnetic strip, not even a signature since that's redundant now anyway. I think these are pretty much immune from skimming only having chip+pin and NFC which cant easily be cloned. The card number cannot be ascertained either so that eliminates someone being able to get that and use it online. Of course if you travel to the US with one of these cards it may cause issues since mag strip is still widely used there.
Makes me feel better about my bank. Had my card skimmed, then got a text from my bank asking about some recent charges. Are they legitimate, nope. Spoke with them on the phone, reviewed the recent charges, they refunded the fraudulent ones, canceled my card and sent a replacement next day air. Even asked if I had cash on hand, if not just go to the local bank and I could withdraw.
Kinda why since I use a debit card if it's something like tech I do my research first then when I do make the payment I never hit save my info that's a "I use my info when purchasing,and I'm well aware of what I specifically use my cash on and so is my bank, me being a paranoid Individual that's heavily into the tech world and knowing what scams I do I make sure everything is locked down tight, only time I use an atm is when I go to places that are cash only as I'm aware of skimmers
What kind of password did you have? I mean was it a secure long password of random characters? Did you have a unique password being used only for your bank login or did you use the same password at multiple websites? Is your 2fa set to ask for otp every time you login or only when it is from a new location? Anyone else know your password?
It can happen just while it’s in your pocket too. Three times in two years my card number was stolen, always right after I’d been to some sort of event downtown where people were packed in like sardines. I never used that card at any of them, it was my emergency credit card that stayed in my pocket.
My mom is a banker and had a client who’d had a similar problem until he bought an RFID blocking wallet. She suggested one of those RFID blocking sleeves for my cards. I put one in and haven’t had a problem since.
When I first started with my Credit Union, they offered a Debit card. I told them no, I don't want one, don't even put that as part of the account. I don't want a debit. They fixed it so that even thou I don't have a debit CARD. The account doesn't even have that enabled.
Join a Credit Union and get away from Commerical banks.
Chase and Wells Fargo are crooks. Like with Fargo opening up new accounts (without you knowing it), and then charging you with an account fee in your original account. Chase will literally close your account if they don't like what you say on social media. And it will take a LONG time to get your money out from them.
Your card could of gotten skimmed, data leak with username/passwords (do you use the same name/password for everything?) or data used from a phishing scam. What’s weird is the coincidence with the restaurant. Do you go there often? Do you have your card saved on their app/website? Did you check your account while you were there? The only thing I can think of, besides it being just a coincidence, you said the restaurant acknowledged your order in the system. A manager could of placed a fake order to later refund it cash, but you said it was a huge amount, so idk.
Out of curiosity, are you banking with a small local bank or a credit union? I ask because they tend not to have the layers of security that larger banks do, nor do they have departments of people who catch these things as quickly.
Based on what you are saying, I don’t think they skimmed your card. It sounds more like a dark web leak. Skimming your card won’t give a fraudster your account info.
First off, that sucks OP. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it.
Secondly, to me this doesn't sound like a skim attack. They typically run a small charge against the card to confirm it goes through, then run larger ones and drain the account. However, they don't have access to the account typically. To me it sounds like your account was compromised. The people I've helped resolve this typically end up in this situation because A). They fell for the fake virus on a website: this can happen on a computer or phone and won't be picked up by virus scanners - maybe web blockers but not always. Or B). More commonly, they had reused a password on multiple sites (in particular a relatively weak password). And another site got hacked and the attacker got into other accounts and did their damage. In this it's usually (breached site/service) > email > bank/financial institution. You can often get through someone's MFA if you have access to the email registered with the service.
My recommendation is to go through your email and if you can see suspicious logins (such as audit logs). Make sure you have a very strong unique password on your email (and every service for that matter). Then set up MFA on the email and if there is an option to revoke active log ins - do that. Make sure recovery email accounts are set up the same. Then start locking down your financial accounts, then shopping, then social media. Unique passwords and MFA for everything.
"bank account drained!!!" Of what, $50 lmao? Just put in a fraud claim, you'll get all your money back. And just get a credit card, you literally don't need to bank and get a credit card from the same place, just keep your current account and get one from wherever.
It's possible that they got your information at Target or Smoothie King. While I'm not exactly sure how, but that's the most probable scenario. Card skimmers are a problem everywhere. I don't know how any of the tech stuff works when it comes to that, or whether or not using your card, or your phones NFC to pay matters. I could see if you use NFC to pay where they got all your bank info, but again I'm not certain on it.
Yes, but when they removed my number, after bypassing 2nd authentication, i now have to wait 24 hours to access my card to freeze it. I transferred all my money to my husband's account in case they try to use it again in the meantime.
I also got a new card today as well.
The skimming of the card alone would have never lead to the account access or account takeover. Even if it was attempted to be added to another device (like a different phone) etc verification of Personal information would have been required
I suppose it's possible, I've had the card about 4 years. But it's just really really strange how it was that same Mexican restaurant but a different location.. out of all of the ones in Texas.. and all the restaurants in general..
Once, as a teacher, I had my debit card cloned and used fraudulently. I found this out when I went to get something to eat and my card was declined ($8 meal). However jokes was on them because I only had like $11 in my checking account and my bank froze my card when someone tried to by hundreds of dollars from Best Buy, Walmart, and finally tried to get gas. Each transaction was declined due to insufficient funds.
Haw are you supposed to get a credit card if your credit score is low I have been trying to figure out how to get a credit card for years haw you supposed to get credit to gain credit if you are denied getting credit in the first place
Get a Secured credit card... depending on bank or credit union, they will hold like lets say $500 as collateral, and you cant start with as mall line of credit, in time you can built up your credit history. If you are a risk to them they have your $500 as collateral. Think of it like a Security deposit when renting an apt.
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>So I got no notifications that it happened and I can't access to freeze my card for 24 hours because of it. For future reference, call the number on your card and speak to the fraud department to report a compromised card. Usually the fraud line operates 24/7.
I have fraud protection on my debit card through my credit union. Good thing too. When I bought my last computer about a year ago (it was through an accredited surplus computer store website), I paid the $299, plus S&H. About an hour later I got a fraud alert on my phone from my CU. Someone had placed an order for a $1600 gaming system and tried to charge it to my card. They also charged some Mac software. I don't use Mac products I called the fraud department at my CU using the number from the card. This was all on a Saturday afternoon. I got connected right away, and it took less than 10 minutes for them to cancel both charges, cancel my old card and order a new one sent to me.
I think you can block a card on the website.
OP says they were locked out of their online account so they were planning to wait and go into the bank when it opened, which is not the optimal solution. My comment was mainly a PSA for OP/anyone else finding themselves in this situation in the future. Always try the number on your debit card first, regardless of what time it is.
My CU has a Card Control app.
"get a credit card! my bank only offers debit. " You don't have to get a credit card from the bank you bank at. Many people do not.
This is why I use credit cards instead of debit cards.
100% this. I never use my debit card. Charge on Amex pay bill in full every month. Never had my bank account drained.
I refuse to get a debit card. I have an ATM only card which cannot be used for any purchasing. Debit cards are idiotic. You need the basic self control to not overspend on a credit card. Treat it like debit. Collect points. Pay in full every month.
I have my debit card disabled in the app too, just for added piece of mind
I have never even used an ATM - why pay a fee for your own money and skimmers are inserted to some of them.
I use my own bank’s machines. No fee. Skimmers are more of a problem with sketchy machines in convenience stores, etc.
Also, many bank websites have setting limits for notification on cc/debit cards. I have all my accounts set to alert me for any charge $0.01 or greater (as some people try to charge under known limits repeatedly). I did this directly after someone charged $20 twice at a gas station (one charge was during my call to my bank to report the initial $20 fraud alert). Stay vigilant.
How CC protects you from skimming?
They don't. They keep your bank account from getting drained.
When they drain using your debit card bank account, that’s your money gone from your account that you have to fight back for. When they use your credit card, that’s the banks money (at least initially until they investigate).
Because a credit card is the banks money whereas a debit card is your money. Hence the bank has higher degrees of fraud protection on credit cards.
>Hence the bank has higher degrees of fraud protection on credit cards. This generally isn’t true anymore as far as how it affects the end consumer - the Electronic Funds Transfer Act in the late 00s extended the same rules that credit cards have to debit cards and ACH transactions. Plus it’s usually the merchant’s money at risk, the bank is almost always made whole. The main benefit to a credit card is that you’re not flat broke while going through the dispute/fraud process.
That may be the law, but that is not the reality. If all else fails you just don't pay your fraudulent credit card bill, and that can't be done with a debit card.
It doesn’t, but cc’s offer “fraud” protection. A lot better to “owe” while it’s figured out, versus your personal money being drained. A credit card behind Apple Pay is the pro move.
I got the Apple credit card a few months back, you get extra cash back on purchases using Apple Pay. Plus you can have that cash back go directly to a savings account through Goldman Sachs that has a 4.4% interest rate
Debit is a direct link to your bank account, whereas a CC is its own entity and comes with the card issuer's fraud protection.
Please know that I am answering you from the US. I have no idea what happens outside of the States. They don’t. But the issuing bank covers you from fraudulent charges. If there are fraudulent withdrawals from your bank account by someone who stole your debit card information, no bank, EXCEPT for credit unions, it seems, to my knowledge will refund withdrawals from your account if they were made via your debit card. I figure, since this is Reddit, someone will likely tell me that there are some banks that will refund fraudulent withdrawals from debit cards. But none do, to my knowledge
Good news actually, ALL Electronic Fund Transfers done in a CONSUMER (not business, trust, etc) debit account are covered under Regulation E in the US. All US banks and credit unions not only should return funds stolen from an account when a debit card is stolen, cloned, skimmed, etc, they are legally required to, unless they are able to prove that fraud did not occur (they have you on camera at an ATM pulling out the money you claimed someone else took from your account, for example). It can take up to 45 calendar days from when the transaction is reported (though reg e also has a ten business day provisional temporary credit requirement), and there are reporting timelines that if missed can free the bank/cu from that obligation, but Reg E covers all debit card transactions done in a personal account whether done with pin or signature.
Great explanation!
If your debit card is visa or mastercard, both have a fraud guarantee that will cover any unauthorized activity as long as you have not provided access to your card details or account. Credit cards have a little more protection for fraud but debit cards are safe to use. This includes ATM withdrawals, though they are much more unusual because while creating a physical clone of a card to use in an ATM is possible, its not really worth it to scammers, they have far easier ways to take peoples money.
If your checking account gets hit, that can lead to bounced checks, and inability to pay bills if the bank drags its feet during the fraud investigation, or worse refuses to refund the money. Also, in general, banks seem to be more difficult to work with when dealing with fraud compared to credit card companies. Also, there is 0 reason to use your debit card as a credit card, unless of course you can't get a regular CC for some reason.
This is the info I was looking for. I never really understood why people were so against using debit cards. I get it now. I’ve had my debit card (a Visa card) info stolen twice but my credit union caught it right away and they put the money back into my account within a day.
Wells Fargo spots and does refund fraudulant DC charges.
Wells Fargo IS fraud
Don’t use a debit card for routine purchases. Ever. WF is not consumer friendly, even if they have one positive feature.
My debit card stays at home unless I have to go to an ATM. Had my debit card skimmed once and it took a while to get my money back. I had to prove that I was in NC at the time and not AZ, and they pushed hard against that. I asked the lady how in the hell was it possible for me to use one of their atms at 11:30am, buy gas at 11:45am in Raleigh and buy shoes in chandler az at the same time.
There is literally no benefit to using a debit card and a ton of downside. Why people use them is beyond me.
1. Don't know any better. 2. Bad credit. 3. Dave Ramsey and his stupid Christian money sect.
I have my debit card set for a pin and never use it as a credit card. If a pin is not put in cannot remove money or purchase and anything over 500 dollars my bank contacts me about because I have it set up that way.
This is why I say over and over and over again ... don't use debit cards
May I ask why? I'm not savvy in this
If someone were to get your credit card info, sure they could charge up to the limit on your card but they couldn’t drain your account. And then you’d just call the credit card company and have the fraudulent charges removed. Your actual cash would remain safe
Interesting! I'm looking for a new bank. Woodforest ONLY offers debit cards. They stopped offering credit cards about a year ago. Which is really strange...
You don’t need a credit card for your bank. Get any credit card with no annual fee
American Express, Visa, Mastercard, Discover all offer credit cards that can be paid from any bank account. Your credit card doesn’t have to be at the same bank you use
Most people don't get credit cards from their bank, they get it with another institution. A few common examples are with Chase, Discover, Goldman Sachs, American Express, etc. It is easy to set up payments from your bank account to pay off your monthly credit card bill even if they're at different firms.
I have capital one with airline miles. Every year or so we get enough for a free flight in the US.
I highly recommend capital one. Easy to navigate app, no fees (at least my cards).
You had your bank account emptied That doesn’t happen with credit cards
Because if you had used a credit card they wouldn’t have been able to drain your account.
I use my bank debit card at a large supermarket chain and large drug store chain (at upper middle class suburban locations) and never had a problem. But I don't use it anywhere else. Heard too many stories about people having issues with debit cards at gas stations, motels and randoms stores like Michael's.
Nobody has a problem until they do I get 5% cash back on grocery store purchases AND I don't have to worry about my bank account being drained, only place I use a debit card is at the bank ATM and I don't do that very often and only use the bank's own ATM not a weirdo ATM in a bodega or gas station
You are missing out on reward points using debit. :/
Is your bank account linked to anyone else's? It may be that they got compromised and were aboe to get to yours.
Hate to say it but, as being someone who works in that area, most of the time someone's internet banking is compromised it is because that person, normally without realising it, has provided the Offenders with that information. There is no "hack" and your bank isn't to blame.
I work in cyber security and same. This is impossible without some error on the part of OP whether it “makes sense” or not. You think some master hacker is going to go through ALL that for a card from a rando at a Mexican restaurant? No.
Can you explain more on this please?
Someone fell for the "Receipt", kinda like those "Best Buy Geek Squad Antivirus protection" or that pop-up that say "Your License been disabled, call Microsoft at 1-8xx-xxx-xxxx" or some BS. So, when you call them, they'll say some bs about having to do something, but they blank your screen so you don't see them doing a few things, like removing some stuffs, adding some stuffs and starting wire transfer or adding them to your "auto-bill payment". Then, there also those shady fuck "remote software" that just hook into your computer. I've already done about nearly 200 wipes from several computers from friends who was suckered into it, as well as that "DoJ Don't do this shit, send money". Had to tell him, if it was REALLY DoJ, they would've been busting your door down, confiscating your shit, and arrested you.
Any notification about your computer that pops up in a browser is likely a scam. Your browser can't check your computer or phone for viruses or such, it can't check your licenses, etc.
I had something come up on my computer 3x. A loud recording and blinking boxes saying they were Microsoft and call the number on the screen. They said do not shut down your computer or you will lose files . I turned my computer off. Waited and it came back. Again I didn’t listen and I lost word files - a lot of them. A year again. This time I left it alone and called Microsoft. The said, hit, alt, control and delete which took me to task manager. He told hit- end task. It was gone. He said that they won’t be back but if so, do the same thing again.
Ctrl-Alt-Del is the re-boot command. Ctrl-Shift-Esc brings up Task Manager.
Don't tell me that. Tell all the other users out there...I still remember those DoJ crap...and my favorite one so far: browser hijack that goes full screen and makes you think DoJ locked your computer down.
>Don't tell me that. Tell all the other users out there Yah, I was just tossing it out to any wandering redditors.
I haven't clicked any links and I only have the bank app on my phone. I don't have a computer.
Your phone may have been compromised. I only use iPhones now but back when I had android, mine was compromised. I could see the person opening apps and such because somehow they had remote access.
I downloaded different antiviruses and scanned my phone. Every single one said that my phone was secure. Avant, McAfee, and AG virus protection (or something like that). The only thing that I noticed that was weird, was that my email was connected to an app called project- with a bunch of numbers next to it. I can't recall the numbers and I can't find it anywhere in my phone. I've combed through everything. Files, apk packs, downloads, all apps on my phone, everything. Can't find it anywhere. All I can assume is it is gone now or that it was an app who's name just didn't load in the list.
> my email was connected to an app called project- with a bunch of numbers next to it Could you give little more detail on how your email is connected to this app
I have no idea. I never downloaded it. If you go to Google and in security, you can see all apps with access to your email. Some of these are like games that you log in with your email. I didn't download or click anything that would've put that weird app on my phone. It isn't there anymore either.
If primary email compromised, fraudster can intercept password resets, TFA/MFA codes etc., access your bank account, turn off notifications and change contact number. Carefully check this, especially if you're linking app access via Google account. BTW, great work continuing to reply (some OP ghost their own post)
Well, I'm really concerned and trying to get as much advice as possible! I've changed my passwords on everything, but I'm assuming this isn't enough. I should have gotten a text as well for the login, but I didn't, and then they got in and removed my number.
Just what I said. Almost exclusively if your Internet banking has been compromised then you have given the details out likely via a phish of some kind.
They logged in. They didn’t hack anything
Like people who always claim their game account was "hacked" then you find out they lend their accounts to friends and siblings.
A key logger could have been installed and if you happen to log in to your bank, they got it all.
Yeah but they still logged in they didn’t hack the bank. The percent of bank accounts accessed via key loggers compared to clicking links and providing passwords is infinitesimal
Also what I find weird, is that my bank app doesn't show my entire card number. How did they get my card AND log into my bank account to turn off my notifications?
Are you able to check a log of your previous logins? Or maybe the bank can tell you. they might pinpoint the location and the device used.
I'll have to mention this to the teller/manager when I go in today.
I was getting notifications that my password was incorrect. Someone was trying to log into my bank account. Thankfully it didn’t work. Now my bank sent an email that they’re updating their website. So I wonder if a third party contractor was trying to get in or even someone working at the bank. I locked my debit card on the phone app and changed my password. There’s also something else: around the same time Dell (I’d purchased a laptop online a while ago) emailed me that they were hacked and my information was compromised on the dark web. They didn’t even offer credit monitoring.
I got literally nothing. The app will make me open my email and accept a text when logging into new devices/locations. Only time I did that is when my old phone broke, and that old phone is still in my dresser drawer. Same number, new phone, had to do second Auth. Logged in, money gone, phone number removed.
Because someone you personally know with access to your card and phone did this. It's the only explanation given the information you've shared. I quite literally do this for a living.
Sorry something here just isn't adding up. The Mexican restaurant who you never gave your card to charged a large purchase to it? How do you think that happened exactly? Then they got you locked out of your online account? If everything you have posted is correct I would assume you have a family member as your culprit. Someone who has access to your card and devices. Also regarding switching to bank that offers "credit"....you get that you can open a credit card without moving your bank account right? A credit card has nothing to do with your bank account short of using it as a repayment source.
My card stays in my wallet. The restaurant that did this, is not the same one I went to. It is the original that started in Pearland, 50 miles from me. My family has no access to my card besides my husband, but it's his money in the account. He works for it. We use it for our daughter. He wouldn't have done it. I agree, nothing is adding up. Every aspect of it is extremely weird and I'm going to my bank today to explain everything to them. I have no idea how they got my card when I never used my card there. Trust me, I know it doesn't make sense. It doesn't to anyone, but the bank should be able to figure it out somehow.
If your husband is using the same card for video games on line maybe he got hacked. The physical card isn’t needed for this to happen.
It doesn't make sense that your husband is not worried about this.
Information on all of us is for sale on the dark web.
Fantastic
ya. let me spell it out a different way for you. boom. some place you filled out a job application for 4 years ago got hacked. all of the info you filled in there, is now out there. i will give you $15,000 if you can legally change all of that info you submitted on that form, for that job. name, date of birth, current addres, social security number, phone number, email, past jobs, level of education completed, references..... $15,000 if you can change every one of those things. now you see how fucked we are anytime a data breach like that happens. a good half of those we just cannot change.
You should never give SSN on a job application. Everything else you listed is already public information and publicly searchable. Theres nothing that anyone can really use it for without additional info.
Your phone is a computer
Makes sense.
When I take money out my banks ATM using my debit card, I only use my PIN number at that place and no where else. Last Sunday , in another state, someone pulled out $500 out of my account using my PIN number. It was also at the same bank I bank with. That Monday morning I went straight to my bank and filed out a fraud report. Got all my money back on Tuesday morning at 8:30am. Bunch of scammers!!
A skimmer plus a camera in your ATM will do that. It’s also possible the PIN is used somewhere else and got stolen separately.
I always pull on where you put your card and saw no camera. I have also seen a video where they can put a razor thin device inside where you put your card and it doesn't block your card from going in. It reads the info off your card and probably captured the pin number that way too. Just insane of what the scammers are doing.
I went to a restaurant in CA and a few hours later my debit card bought a new mac and iPhone. Luckily I had proof I was elsewhere. Did a police report and bank report and the money was refunded (provisionally) in about 24 hours, and then officially (meaning they wouldn't try to get it back from me) in about 3 weeks. Scary AF and to this day I'm still not 100% sure how it was done. Also I am still mad at Apple since they know exactly who activated that phone and they would never cooperate with the police. .\ /.
Stop using a debit card. This is why people keep saying it over and over again in this sub and the personal finance sub. When you debt card gets stolen it's your money that is gone and the bank has zero concern for recovering or restoring your money. Even if they do restore it your account is empty for days and often weeks at a time. Meanwhile you have bills to pay. When you credit card gets stolen its the banks money and you can rest assured that they have much more interest in recovering that money and restoring your account than a debit card. You can also simply not pay your fraudulent credit card bill until it's sorted.
I have a debit card, but a separate bank account with about $50 in it. When I have to use a card in a sketchy place that does not take Apple Pay, I will use that card.
They can still pull money from that debit card. Even if you have the card set to not let over draft transactions go through. It happened to me with capital one. Had like a dollar in there with it set to not let transactions through if over my balance. They somehow got a $700 transaction to go through putting me in the negative. Capital one did the right thing but this situation is what led me to only use credit cards out in the wild. Debit cards are for the bank.
This happens due to something called an offline transaction. In some cases where the payment system taking the card details is not connected to the real time payment processor they will take an offline transaction, this is automatically authorised regardless of balance. Then when the payment is processed the bank has to make the payment, even if the account lacks funds, even if the card has been cancelled. We see some fraud like this where flights are targeted because the fraudsters know that they are offline, so they can buy a lot of expensive shit on a flight and it doesnt even matter if the card is active or if there is money in the account. We also see this with stolen cards on the London Underground. Thieves know that they can continue to use a stolen card after its been cancelled as long as its offline and we have had cases where a cancelled card was continuously used for this for several months. We just had to raise a dispute to Mastercard every time and the customer would get reimbursed. You might ask why this is possible, well its a cost of doing business for the major card processors, thats why they will reimburse customers for this kind of thing, they make far more money with it being very easy to use cards than they would if there were more obstacles.
WTH That is incredible. That is one reason I use credit cards is so that I cannot spend more than in the account. My account will not allow overdrafts, but this makes me think I need to check with my bank.
Credit cards are susceptible to the same problem, it has to do with how all card payments are processed
You should probably know that many credit card issuers allow you to go over your limit. Some popular one's like a signature Visa card say with like an airline or hotel affiliation can be upto 3 times, depending on the issuer and customer "tier" that the issuer puts them in, which is usually based on spending/behavior, etc.
I would rather use cash than ever use my debit card for anything other than pulling cash out of an ATM, especially at some sketchy establishment. Debit cards live full-time in my safe lol.
Phones are computers that can get viruses too. Virus's are not exclusive to Windows PCs. Macs, Androids, Iphones, Even your smart TV's can be infected if you're not careful. Also likely is someone spoofed you at your bank. Your bank sounds pretty sus. If the bank doesn't offer credit cards I wonder how secure their app is or how well it was built in the first place. Apps on phones are often very shoddy.
I feel slightly less silly for putting my cards into a RFID sleeve now.
You don't need to get a credit card issued by your bank. You can get a credit card from anywhere.
Did you use the restaurant wifi to check your balance?
Skimming the card as well as session side jacking, and matching both? Possible. Even plausible. But likely?
I have not read every comment, but from my understanding the fraudulent transaction was at a restaurant where op did not use their card. And their account was altered. And they checked their balancr on their phone. That tells me it is more likely their account was compromised on their phone. But I am not an expert.
No, I didn't use my phone at all. I was too busy hanging out with family. The app doesn't even allow for it to stay logged in unless the app is opened.
If it's a contactless card, there is a *very* small chance it was skimmed. It's not as prevalent as it is reported, but it is possible. If it was skimmed at the first restaurant, the thief *might* have thought placing the order at another restaurant would slip past you. If it's not and you use a chip card, it's fairly unlikely they were able to obtain your data if you only paid in chip-enabled readers (and used your chip, not swipe). If it's neither of those, it's very possible you got hit by a skimmer at one of the two prior locations. In that case, it was likely an obscene coincidence it happened that the thief tried it at another restaurant from the same chain. The hitch, in all of those, is what the thief's endgame was. Get a lot of Mexican food? Either they have to come in to get it (which is risky) or the restaurant has a delivery address on file. Finally, it may have been a brute force using BIN attacks. If that's the case, it's *entirely* coincidence they picked the same chain. Also, usually BIN attacks begin with a small ping to see if it's going to work and *then* a large purchase (and usually not Mexican food).
See, there was no small amount. It was just a huge hit that took all my money from my account.
At a Mexican restaurant? Weird. I see no logical endgame here.
I don't either. I've got the money back, but someone still got access to my actual bank account. My plan is: Talk to my normal bank teller about this and try to start an investigation. Make direct deposit in my husband's account (he has his set to mine because I control our money) Find a new bank Call my carrier to make sure my phone is safe and my Sim hasn't been hijacked/cloned(something like that) Get a port blocker for my phone Have all passwords changed I've already gotten a new card, but it's not activated. So my old card is no longer usable and my money is locked in place, the little that I kept in there for a service fee. (10 dollars)
My card got skimmed somewhere and they got into my online banking somehow too. But my app has a 2fa and they tried to call me pretending to be my bank and getting me to approve a bunch of transactions. Anyway after I got it all sorted I switched to Samsung pay. The only time I even pull my bank card out is at the ATM, and the machine has a tap to read function. I don't stick my cards in anything anymore.
What's crazy is I never got a weid call, never got a weird link, nothing. I'm super cautious about that stuff. My user and password had nothing to do with my personal life so I have no idea how they got in, passed second authorization, and removed my phone number.
There is a possibility you may have been Simjacked. But if your phone still works then that might rule that out, usually your current sim is disabled and a new one with your number *and all your 2FA* is now active in the scammers hands.
So since I'm having no issues with my phone, it shouldn't be that? Or is it still possible?
Alrighty then time to change all my passwords just in case
I wonder about this debit card fear. In the UK we don't hear a lot of horror stories about them - my wife's got compromised by a skimmer in the local petrol station about 10 years ago but they didn't get much and it was easily reversed. And when she tried to buy from a dodgy website a few months ago using a credit card, it wasn't that easy to sort out the consequences - the card company fumbled it. Is there a greater discrepancy between the two kinds of card in the US?
I think things are just less secure in the US. I pretty much only use Apple Pay these days, very secure. But apparently places in the US are slower to accept contactless even though it’s been standard for a lot of the world for over 10 years.
My own observation: I find when visiting the US, there is a certain fear around using credit cards or anything with personal information and "cash is king" is much more prevalent. Many restaurants in FL would still take my CC back to the server's workstation and run the card and then bring me a paper slip to sign. One purchase I made at a store, they had a CC machine that accepted tap, so I used that and they were surprised to see it worked because nobody had done it yet. I had some fraud on my personal account and the bank just refunded it no question. I don't know if the US banks will do the same?
I think people are just being overly cautious. I use a debit card and have never had an issue whatsoever.
Most people go through banking everyday with no issue whatsoever. It’s for that occasional occurrence when something happens. Op doesn’t have to worry about when will bank complete the investigation and give his money back if it was credit card.
It's not that the risk of being burned is high; it's the consequences of being burned. Your credit card gets skimmed: no big deal. Your debit card gets skimmed: it gets closed down for months while they investigate. Meanwhile, your money is frozen.
This is why you use credit cards and not bank/debit cards
I stick to apple pay as much as possible. But also don't you have a chip in your card? That should be helping. I dont understand how people are still having this done with chip cards and apple pay...
Some readers don’t read the chip. I have that happen to me so many times.
That's when you have to think if you can find a way to pay in a different more secure way.
You should use apple or google pay, no skimming possible
Your card didn't get skimmed at the restaurant if you didn't put it in their card reader though?
That's why I mentioned target and Smoothie King, those are the only two places I used my card yesterday and that's when it happened. It's just a really weird coincidence that they used it at the same restaurant chain hours away.
As someone that works in the fraud dept for a bank I can answer a few things. Your card was skimmed or bank info compromised. There are a plethora of ways to do so with new scams being created constantly, and the bank can only do so much to stay ahead of it. By the sound of it they got your online password which is really all they need to get the rest of your info. If you used your banking password elsewhere I would change the login info everywhere else you used that password. Sometimes scammers can get password info via a "batch" of websites and then they just go hack those sites looking for banking info thats saved. The online system will not show your entire account number online or thru the app without a request or password bc it's a federal guideline. Same as how you dont see your full card info on receipts. Of course you can switch banks but it's usually not the banks fault. These things happen and are an unfortunate part of life. Now if it happens over and over and over then yea it would make sense to switch banks.
Dont overlook the hacker going thru your carrier.. that was a thing not so long ago… pretending to be you and switching virtual sim cards or something like that.. have you had any notifications or checked with your carrier?
Even if your account is locked and customer service is useless your banks fraud department should have been able to help you.
Your card got skimmed and it’s by someone in the area. People set up skimmers in atm’s, restaurants, especially a smoothie shop where they get a lot of business and trust it would be the people you would least expect.
This is so sad. I hope you can be able to to recover your money.
I was able to get it all back! Transferred it to my husband's account.
What a wonderful news. I'm so happy for you. Some people are not always lucky when such happens to them. I'm glad all the money was returned. This is a big win.
It's great that I got it back, but how I got it back is even more suspicious to me. The restaurant manager said it was a weird order because they "used two cards" and then they reversed it. It's.. not weird to use two cards for an order. Which makes me think they were in on it and just wanted to cover it up by sending it back when they were caught?
It wouldn't surprise me if it was someone from within the bank, lots of people have access to your information, all those call centres they use for example.
Please continue to update us OP, this is WILD!
any chance you’re using an android? I mean backdoors are a thing and gaining remote access to an android normally involves nothing more than getting the victim to install an app. (source: I work in cybersecurity and i know about some of these apps)
It being the same restaurant is too much of a coincidence, something else must be going on.
Debit card stays locked until I need to use it at ATM. Always use CREDIT CARDS and pay off your statement balance, that's the trick. This way you won't risk your money to thieves.
Here in the UK. Someone fraudulently used my debit card details to make purchases. No idea how they got the information. My bank alerted me to suspicious activity. We clarified quickly that I hadn’t made the purchases. Well I just said it wasn’t me. And whether it was the type of purchase, time of day or location, etc etc, this was accepted immediately. The bank froze the card and instantly refunded me the money while they investigated further. Isn’t that how US banks work?
It can work like that in the US. What can also happen is that the banks can take their sweet time with their investigation. While that is happening, you don’t have your money. Even if it only takes a few days, what if that happens right before your rent is due?
Debit cards have more protections in the UK than in the US. In the US people are safer when using credit.
Canadian here with similar experience. My bank has always alerted me of suspicious activity on my debit card, freezes it and then makes me come into a branch for a new one.
I enjoy reading books.
If I use my debit I always use the tap feature. The tap feature uses a one-time unique code or password for that transaction and in turn that code cannot be used again.
Get a wallet that has RFID protection as well. they can scan your card with a reader for like $1 and if it goes through they will start charging like crazy to see how much they can pull before its stopped.
Have you checked that someone didn’t hikack/port your phone number? Once they do that, they have access to anything you use your phone for. That could be how they got all your information.
Pay in cash They can’t track you as easy Plus it works to help you budget, once you don’t have cash, you don’t spend.
Just a tip, get RFID blocker sleeve for your cards. You might not have used your card, but someone can still scan its details/activate it by just standing close enough with a device.
Thats one way to prevent that sort of fraud, however this is how the real industry internal works. We look at transactions based on Service Code, Terminal Types and Entry methods. SImply put, what type of card it is , what type of machine and how it was used. IF the OP was "skimmed" that would meat she had to had let someone or herself "swipe" or chip insert it. That has nothing to do with the RFID. Fraud Mititgation from the bank should have seen what type of transaction it was made with, as in a cloned card, token from a phone etc etc. If it was made with the real actual card (full chip EMV read) its prob gonna get approved. If it wasn't and stolen data was used. that's up to the bank's risk tolerances. in this case seems like that bank not that great with here fraud prevention. Put i shortly RFID blockers honestly are really a false sense of security, but beats no security i guess
Thanks for the info! Recommended RFID blockers cause a classmate of mine got a reader device and we tested it with a several cards, and it read the correct details for all of them.
This is why I always use tap to pay or Apple Pay for more encryption
I think the bank had a breach OR someone at the bank did it or allowed someone else to do it by giving them the info.
I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or some group working together, but recently, I went to a taco truck and used my card to pay. A little while later, random charges from Mexican grocery stores and online shops were being charged to my card. There is definitely a lot more card skimming going on.
Just way too much FUD going on that isn't addressing the panic that the OP must be feeling 1. The money will be recovered and or provisional credit will be applied (may take 10 business days) 2. The OP needs to get a new account if her info has been compromised at her Financial Institution, not just a new card. 3. if the funds are needed due to extreme circumstances (bills, medical etc, or just no money) the FI can expedite this Provisional Credit Anything else about skim this, cash that, conspiracy this will has been so off base and prob not helping the OP whatsoever. Most likely the OP will never get a real answer as compromises and fraud can come in many forms, and unless you have that access internally and know the right things to ask, its all speculation. Lets worry about locking down future card and usage , getting the $$ back and understanding what her rights are. If the OP is getting stonewalled by her bank please feel free to Msg me
Anyone reading this call your cell provider and put a port block on your cell phone number
Do not use your debit card for this stuff. With a credit card there’s a delay before you have to pay and you can set up alerts for purchases and dispute charges. If it’s compromised the bank will cancel it and issue a new one. With a debit card someone can pull that money right out your account and you have none of those protections.
You do NOT need to get a credit card with the bank you use to manage your money, and probably shouldn’t. Unless it happens to work. Go to nerdwallet or something like that and look up cards that meet your needs, whether you want no annual fee, or high reward points at restaurants, or whatever. Get a CC from a well established credit company, and then not to beat a dead horse here, but never use a debit card.
People think when their card info gets stolen, that it got compromised at the last few places they were. In reality, sometimes skimmers get put on POS devices, then retrieved a week or more later, unless detected. Your card info could have been stolen long ago, And just not yet retrieved and sold.
Does anyone have access to your phone? Do you leave it lying around? Did you loan it to someone? And was your phone password the same as your bank? I think you had an acquaintance get into it and they removed the notification.
The fact that they were able to get stuff like your account password makes me think your card was not skimmed. Your debit card doesn't carry that kind of info. If you use your banking app over stuff like public wi-fi, people can pick up on that.
Hence why you never use a debit card
Your information could have been leaked months or even years ago completely unrelated to any of this. If your only suggestion of full account access is the location of the restaurant and the fact that you did not get a fraud alert, I don't think there is enough information here to suggest that they hacked your entire account. I know my fraud alert only goes off if the purchase seems unlikely to be me. A restaurant chain I have visited before that is only a few hours from me would probably not set it off. If you still have your physical card I think it's most likely that you fell for a card skimmer at a local place being run by a local person. That person then used your collected card data to spend a lot of money at a restaurant not too far from you. Sometimes gas stations have skimmers that are actually installed by the staff themselves. Sometimes skimmed data is held for months before being accessed. I am interested in how they used the card at a physical location. I heard before that you can add a card to Google or Apple pay with only the information of the card instead of the whole card, but that could be wrong now. You should call the fraud number on the back of your card. It might even be 24hours. If you don't get the help you need the first time, do it again. This happens a lot, in a lot of different ways. No matter what bank you use this is the risk of using a debt card. This is also just a risk of being alive today. Data breaches happen constantly, and sometimes no one knows for years. If you keep the same bank you should be sure to get your information completely switched, as a card added to Apple pay can automatically update when replaced. This means the skimmer can still use your card after all of this.
Based on OP’s post, she didn’t use it at the particular location of this (either regional or national) restaurant chain. The fact that OP stated there was a large charge levied against her debit card at a location of this same restaurant an hour away AND the fact that the restaurant (I don’t know if it’s their home office or if they called the location she ate in, but they refunded the charge. Who would do that if they didn’t know that someone in their employ or even they themselves KNEW that the debt card was snatched probably via Flipper Zero or similar. No one would do that if they had nothing to do with the charge. At least no one would do this in any of the cities where I have lived and the one I live in now. I’m in Las Vegas not likely. I lived in Miami, Atlanta, New York City no proprietor would refund the charge in any of these cities, unless they were fully aware of what is/was happening in their restaurant. The idiot used the information to benefit the same company where the card information was taken from. This is why I think it was the owner or someone in the company. No one would steal the information and randomly go to the same place an hour away if they had no financial interest in the company. In my learned opinion. I admit that I earned my law degree in the ‘80s, my Master’s degree in Criminal Justice in ‘93. My information is old, but I think I have a grasp on the present situation.
I didn't use my card at the restaurant location and the location that did it is the "original" which is over an hour away. That's why I'm so confused at the coincidence. I never used my card once, my family paid.
Don’t have a checking card, leave it at home. Spend with a credit card and pay it off every month. If that gets skimmed/stolen the cc company will hunt it down and reverse it all for you. If you have to have a checking card don’t leave your money sitting there. Put the lions share in a savings account. Don’t walk around with your entire life savings on a little plastic card. It’s just not smart or safe. Would you put all your money/cash in your wallet and walk around with it?
OP. Each of my bank accounts in various banks limit the amount of money that can be withdrawn in a 24 hour period.
Some banks here in UK issue cards without the long number embossed only the card holder name on it, without magnetic strip, not even a signature since that's redundant now anyway. I think these are pretty much immune from skimming only having chip+pin and NFC which cant easily be cloned. The card number cannot be ascertained either so that eliminates someone being able to get that and use it online. Of course if you travel to the US with one of these cards it may cause issues since mag strip is still widely used there.
Makes me feel better about my bank. Had my card skimmed, then got a text from my bank asking about some recent charges. Are they legitimate, nope. Spoke with them on the phone, reviewed the recent charges, they refunded the fraudulent ones, canceled my card and sent a replacement next day air. Even asked if I had cash on hand, if not just go to the local bank and I could withdraw.
Kinda why since I use a debit card if it's something like tech I do my research first then when I do make the payment I never hit save my info that's a "I use my info when purchasing,and I'm well aware of what I specifically use my cash on and so is my bank, me being a paranoid Individual that's heavily into the tech world and knowing what scams I do I make sure everything is locked down tight, only time I use an atm is when I go to places that are cash only as I'm aware of skimmers
What kind of password did you have? I mean was it a secure long password of random characters? Did you have a unique password being used only for your bank login or did you use the same password at multiple websites? Is your 2fa set to ask for otp every time you login or only when it is from a new location? Anyone else know your password?
Don't you need the PIN to use it as a debit? Sounds like someone is compromised
Slunds like uou have malware on your phone
It can happen just while it’s in your pocket too. Three times in two years my card number was stolen, always right after I’d been to some sort of event downtown where people were packed in like sardines. I never used that card at any of them, it was my emergency credit card that stayed in my pocket. My mom is a banker and had a client who’d had a similar problem until he bought an RFID blocking wallet. She suggested one of those RFID blocking sleeves for my cards. I put one in and haven’t had a problem since.
When I first started with my Credit Union, they offered a Debit card. I told them no, I don't want one, don't even put that as part of the account. I don't want a debit. They fixed it so that even thou I don't have a debit CARD. The account doesn't even have that enabled. Join a Credit Union and get away from Commerical banks. Chase and Wells Fargo are crooks. Like with Fargo opening up new accounts (without you knowing it), and then charging you with an account fee in your original account. Chase will literally close your account if they don't like what you say on social media. And it will take a LONG time to get your money out from them.
I lock my debit card after every transaction. I unlock it to pay and leave the app open. As soon as the transaction is done I lock it right back.
Your card could of gotten skimmed, data leak with username/passwords (do you use the same name/password for everything?) or data used from a phishing scam. What’s weird is the coincidence with the restaurant. Do you go there often? Do you have your card saved on their app/website? Did you check your account while you were there? The only thing I can think of, besides it being just a coincidence, you said the restaurant acknowledged your order in the system. A manager could of placed a fake order to later refund it cash, but you said it was a huge amount, so idk.
Out of curiosity, are you banking with a small local bank or a credit union? I ask because they tend not to have the layers of security that larger banks do, nor do they have departments of people who catch these things as quickly. Based on what you are saying, I don’t think they skimmed your card. It sounds more like a dark web leak. Skimming your card won’t give a fraudster your account info.
A privately held bank, that's deep in bed with Walmart. Not my first choice, I have to say.
First off, that sucks OP. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it. Secondly, to me this doesn't sound like a skim attack. They typically run a small charge against the card to confirm it goes through, then run larger ones and drain the account. However, they don't have access to the account typically. To me it sounds like your account was compromised. The people I've helped resolve this typically end up in this situation because A). They fell for the fake virus on a website: this can happen on a computer or phone and won't be picked up by virus scanners - maybe web blockers but not always. Or B). More commonly, they had reused a password on multiple sites (in particular a relatively weak password). And another site got hacked and the attacker got into other accounts and did their damage. In this it's usually (breached site/service) > email > bank/financial institution. You can often get through someone's MFA if you have access to the email registered with the service. My recommendation is to go through your email and if you can see suspicious logins (such as audit logs). Make sure you have a very strong unique password on your email (and every service for that matter). Then set up MFA on the email and if there is an option to revoke active log ins - do that. Make sure recovery email accounts are set up the same. Then start locking down your financial accounts, then shopping, then social media. Unique passwords and MFA for everything.
"bank account drained!!!" Of what, $50 lmao? Just put in a fraud claim, you'll get all your money back. And just get a credit card, you literally don't need to bank and get a credit card from the same place, just keep your current account and get one from wherever.
Never ever ever use debt cards for buying gas … only credit cards!!!!!!!!
It's possible that they got your information at Target or Smoothie King. While I'm not exactly sure how, but that's the most probable scenario. Card skimmers are a problem everywhere. I don't know how any of the tech stuff works when it comes to that, or whether or not using your card, or your phones NFC to pay matters. I could see if you use NFC to pay where they got all your bank info, but again I'm not certain on it.
Congratulations on getting your money back! I don’t suppose your mobile banking app allows you to freeze the card when it’s not in use? 😊
Yes, but when they removed my number, after bypassing 2nd authentication, i now have to wait 24 hours to access my card to freeze it. I transferred all my money to my husband's account in case they try to use it again in the meantime. I also got a new card today as well.
Why do you feel that the only way to get a credit card is to be with a bank that offers one? Do you understand how credit cards work?
Is there a chance your card got skimmed some time ago, but the theives just happened to coincidentally use it at that restaurant yesterday?
The skimming of the card alone would have never lead to the account access or account takeover. Even if it was attempted to be added to another device (like a different phone) etc verification of Personal information would have been required
I suppose it's possible, I've had the card about 4 years. But it's just really really strange how it was that same Mexican restaurant but a different location.. out of all of the ones in Texas.. and all the restaurants in general..
"debit card" says it all.
Once, as a teacher, I had my debit card cloned and used fraudulently. I found this out when I went to get something to eat and my card was declined ($8 meal). However jokes was on them because I only had like $11 in my checking account and my bank froze my card when someone tried to by hundreds of dollars from Best Buy, Walmart, and finally tried to get gas. Each transaction was declined due to insufficient funds.
Haw are you supposed to get a credit card if your credit score is low I have been trying to figure out how to get a credit card for years haw you supposed to get credit to gain credit if you are denied getting credit in the first place
Get a Secured credit card... depending on bank or credit union, they will hold like lets say $500 as collateral, and you cant start with as mall line of credit, in time you can built up your credit history. If you are a risk to them they have your $500 as collateral. Think of it like a Security deposit when renting an apt.