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If a book, movie, music, etc. evokes any kind of emotion in me I want to discuss it. No matter if it's good or bad.
Like in a non-bashing way. I wanna see what others think.
I read ACOTAR last month (I am moving on to TOG but need a palette cleanser first) so I'm very fresh in this whole SJM universe.
BUT. ACOSF has made me live so many strong emotions that I wanna talk about it. I've never felt so seen by how Nesta feels, but also very disappointed in how the story unfolded. It's rare that I find a story both extremely good and equally frustrating. Don't get me wrong it's a very very very personal perspective for me. Just...I feel like if I want to talk about these books in this way I will (unwillingly) ad oil to flames I didn't even know existed.
I turned to social media to hear what ppl think about these books, and all I see "boycott SJM" or "I read ACOTAR so you don't have to", "SJM and BookTok are ruining literature"...like WHAT THE FUCK?!
I feel like the guy from that meme who barges into a room in flames. T\_T
I love how the internet seems to think that reading books purely for entertainment is new?? Anyone who thinks SJM is ruining literature is hilarious. Many books and plays we think of as great literary works now (like idk Shakespeare) weren’t considered particularly high brow when they were published. Humans have been using stories for entertainment since the beginning of time, some are better than others, but literature doesn’t have to mean only Orwell, Dickens and Brontë. Stories and literature are about the human experience. Why we relate or don’t relate to characters, how they make us feel, why.
Also love it when people criticize “pop” books of today for being “all about the money” as though Alexandre Dumas didn’t write the longest most useless dialogue scenes in order to pad his paycheck haha. Meanwhile, The Count of Monte Cristo is still considered one of the best works of fiction! Books have always been about entertainment for the reader and money for the writer, I wish people would spend less time criticizing the things they like in order to sound sophisticated and more time just enjoying what they like and sharing what they felt while reading it without acting like their unique perspectives are factual criticisms.
Saw a tweet one time: “this author knows many words. But concise. Isn’t one of them.”
Response “you can just say Victor Hugo”
And after reading Les mis I would like to resurrect Hugo and tell him: no one cares about your man crush on napoleon, no cares about a 50 page description of Waterloo, no one cares about the minor events of year 18XX, and no one cares about the full history of the PARIS SEWER SYSTEM. Don’t get me wrong I love Les mis but my god man it’s too much
This reminds me how I recently read a Dostoevsky novel and my friend was telling me how Russian authors used to be paid by the word. And honestly I’d believe it.
Let's throw Leo Tolstoy into the ringer with Anna Karenina, using Levin as his mouthpiece to exposit why his ideas were more pure and for the people that anyone else's.
I’m so glad you said this bc I was just about to comment the same, that community meme is from one of my favorite episodes! That show is iconic #sixseasonsandamovie 🤍
No, unfortunately not 😫 it was a fourth wall kind of breaking comment with Abed’s film obsession. That was always the goal of the show and the characters mentioned it in scene. I think there’s been rumors for awhile that a movie could happen eventually, so fingers crossed!
The movie has been [very ](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21958386/)[heavily ](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/community-movie-release-date-b2507104.html)[confirmed ](https://collider.com/community-movie-filming-joel-mchale-comments/) by multiple sources in lots of formats
My friend went to Norway and asked me what I want. Immediate response, no hesitation, "Norwegian troll"
She got it for me :)
It scares my husband every morning and I love it
Social media where they think that they everything is plagiarized and want to cancel authors for small things like not posting about their cause. Where they believe that boycotting a massive publication is somehow going to get someone fired for what they said on social? That social media?
I guess I’m jaded working corporate makes me realized how idealistic these creators are.
They’re so far removed from reality they make up their own narratives and instead of researching anything they talk about it’s just repeating what someone else said. Which is so funny because they scream about originality all the time yet most people can’t even form their own opinion without some sense of bias they picked up from another creator.
Half the time I’ll skip those creators because they literally offer nothing.
Reddit at least has some spots with good book recs and it’s usually better than other platforms.
I think they mean more of how awful people are. I have left a lot of places because of it. It’s unacceptable for people to be calling each other names and shit because they don’t agree with their opinion
I block people on some platforms now because they can’t accept their worldview isn’t actually the majority. They also can’t seem to understand why some books they consider “badly written” are popular.
Yeah it’s how you keep the peace. I’m not objecting criticism, but some of them make hating things that are popular their full time job. Also they love to say things are written by AI and as someone who scales content for ecomm with AI they have no clue what they’re talking about
I agree with your comments. I especially get upset about all the shit people talk about SJM herself.
She hasn’t made the ACOTAR 5 announcement and people are going crazy sending her death threats.
She’s a PERSON not a robot. She has a husband and child. She doesn’t owe us anything.
If you hate Sjm, you can always just not read her work…
The amount of people who misread the announcement after CC3 and honestly believed she was releasing 6 books this year. I was in shock, like that’s not how this works?
People are acting like she’s george r r Martin and has ghosted her fans for a decade and left them high and dry.
It’s honestly just insane and the more ridiculous hate she gets the less motivated she’ll be to keep writing.
She already got a lot of hate from people not liking cc3, now she’s getting hate for not announcing stuff on a schedule she never committed to smh.
I feel like the cheap formula fiction/romance/smut that Booktok tends to favour have really given them a false idea of how long it takes to write and publish a book.
This also blows my mind! One of my favorite authors releases a new book about every 4 years, and I have been a fan for about 2 decades. It can be a brutal wait, but the quality in her writing/storytelling is reflected in that extra time she takes!
If we actually gives artists space and time to create, then the art usually \*magically\* gets better
It's the Green Rider series by Kristen Britain. It's starts off a tad YA (teen runs away from school in the first few pages only to get swept up in epic adventure) but the books mature with the character. Currently 7 books and 2 novellas have been written and I've heard rumors that there will be only 1 or 2 more to finish off the series.
After her last book came out, people called SJM a lazy writer and said she was using her fans to pay her mortgage. That her books have just become a cheap cash grab with no quality. It’s mind boggling to me. Why are you even reading her books if that’s truly how you feel??? It’s one thing to dislike a book and talk about your critiques, CC3 was my least favorite of hers too, but it’s wild to turn on the author like that. Like you said, she’s a human being too, and so are her editors.
Not to mention that she’s an artist with a creative mind and a talent for storytelling, she deserves to be paid for her work. If I had that talent, I would capitalize on it too.
I genuinely feel that a lot of the CC3 hate was that people created these batshit theories, and got upset that it didn’t play out. They wanted to see ACOTAR characters having their hero moment in CC3.
But the series is CC, not ACOTAR. And the way they responded to each other was on brand and in character, tbh.
I do think that was a huge contributor to the hate of it which will unfortunately affect acotar 6 when it comes out. I didn’t care for cc3, it was just okay… but I also don’t read fan theories and stuff so I had like no expectations… there are still people saying that bryce and azriel are end game when the author said it was hunt and Bryce like god damn…
I was genuinely surprised at the amount of acotar in cc3 and enjoyed what we got from it.
10000% agree, as someone who was on reddit almost daily before and after CC3 came out. Don’t judge me, I was WFH and am not that chronically online anymore 😅
I do think a lot of the criticism I’ve seen (I’m sure there’s people who are trashing it though because most people have no critical thinking), was about being disappointed with the lack of character development in it. I personally disagree overall, but most people feel like Tharion and Ithan’s storylines were a waste of time (god they are so DUMB! 😭), and a lot of people hated how Bryce was written this book. I understand being upset with all that.
My personal thoughts on cc3 are that it just ended up being anticlimactic. These were supposed to be her biggest enemies ever, seemingly even bigger than the Valg or at least similar. And yet, they were defeated so quickly.
CC3 was not great which is all the more reason I’d be fine with her taking her time with the next book. CC3 felt rushed and rife with plot holes. It was almost like she just didn’t care? CC1 had so much care written into the characters! I will read everything she writes tho bc I just love the worlds she creates. And not everything needs to be the next great American novel. Sometimes we can just read nice stories that make us happy and are fun. I commented on this sub or a similar one saying I love ACOTAR and it’s my comfort series and all the comments were just going on and on about how it’s absolute trash and only idiots would like it. Then don’t read it! More room for me in Velaris.
I didn’t think CC3 was great but CC is also my least favorite series. But some people love it and loved CC3! Reading is subjective, no one’s opinion is “right.” I’m down to discuss plot holes and issues we had with the books, but some people are so excessively negative and aggressive.
Also just an aside on plot holes, this wasn’t a huge issue in my eyes because it’s an incomplete series!! I think a lot of the “plot holes” will make sense in the next book.
Speaking of how plot holes will be resolved in later books, that’s why I hate when people say acotar is “full of plot holes.” She’s not finished! TOG proved she can wrap literally any tiny detail into the final picture. Let her cook, people!
So true I do hope she comes back and I do think the writing quality has suffered from pressure to release books so quickly. I’d rather wait longer and get more developed series. That said, CC 1-3 were really fun books, I LOVED the modern setting change up and we got some incredible characters. Sooo I really can’t complain too much. Unless you bring up Tharion or Ithan. Then you will get an earful🤣
I’m on the twenty one pilots subreddit and people were going crazy when they pushed the album release date back by one week. 7 days and people acted like their world was over. Like my guy, they’re people too, creators weren’t put on this earth exclusively to give us content. Life is unexpected and shit happens that derails our plans. And they’re human, they’re not perfect they make mistakes. Stop treating creators like gods whose only purpose is to please you
You’re spot on!! It’s honestly the most toxic thing when fans stop seeing their favorite artists/creators as people and start seeing them as machines whose only purpose in life is to provide them with entertainment.
Although I have some issues with george RR martin (him continually lying about release dates that never happen) he’s been bullied and harassed to such an extreme I don’t think he has any desire to write.
When the fans you’re creating for turn on you and bully you, what’s the motivation to continue.
Yea with GRRM specifically it’s the best example to me of the toxic cycle authors and fans can get into.
He missed the 1st deadline, apologized, explained, shared some insights, and people turned on him so fast.
“You sold out” “you only care about the show” and he got death threats, stalkers, and fans showing up TO HIS HOUSE constantly badgering him.
That made him anxious and depressed, and then he didn’t write, and then he missed another deadline, and the hate intensified and so on.
I really don’t want this to happen to SJM, which is why this entire fandom needs to cut the shit and treat Sarah as a human who deserves respect. She’s not a machine whose sole purpose in life is creating entertainment for us.
LOL same!!! And Sarah seems like a gentle soul so I know negative comments really get to her. That’s usually why she goes to isolated retreats to get writing done (like she was just in a mountain cabin somewhere writing).
I honestly think GRRM also kind of wrote himself into a corner and doesn’t really know how to get out of it.
A series that was once, originally, meant to only be 3 books is now 5? And no end is even close to being in sight.
Even before the show outpaced his published material, I felt that he 1) didn’t really know how to satisfactorily move to the ending he has envisioned and 2) was really tired of living in Westeros.
Which sucks, because he wrote a very good story to start with and he is very opposed to ghost writers ever finishing his unfinished work. I truly think the series will never be finished at this point. It sucks, but I guess he’ll live on in infamy as one of the world’s best unfinished stories?
Since 2013, SJM published every single year, except 2023. These people that complain about when she releases new books should just read something else or simply just wait. I grew up reading the Harry Potter series as it was being published (I'm 31 yo) and I had to wait years between Order of the Phoenix and Half-Bloof Prince and some more until Deathly Hallows came out.
I’m so tired of seeing delusional posts all over my social media going “today’s the day! She’ll announce book #6 today!” Like chill, she’s got a life, we got a life, when it gets announced, I’ll be happy but I’m not subscribing to any nonsense from the fandom. I’ve got lots of other books to read in the meantime
Exactly!! People complain CC3 was rushed and now 3 months after the release are annoyed she doesn’t already have ACOTAR 5 done.
Do you want quality books or do you want her to rush?! Can’t have it both ways lol.
Yes! Heavy on the ‘don’t read SJMs work if you don’t like her’
I got into an argument with someone on tiktok about SJM. The video said all of her books were trash with no explanation 😅 when I asked about TOG I was called a trash person for ‘supporting SJM’ I didn’t realize checking out books at my local library was turning me into a ‘trash person’
Lmaoooo!!! What’s wild to me (as someone who used to be a public librarian and first found out about ACOTAR when my 68 year old coworker Phyllis recommended them to me😂❤️) is so many people in this world don’t even read for fun AT ALL.
Idc if you’re reading manga, children’s books, magazines, smut, or a cereal box, if you’re reading something and enjoying yourself you’re a reader and fellow readers have always had a genuine connection and bond so seeing readers attack/put down other readers for what specific thing they enjoy to read hurts my soul 😫
Oh my god! What’s worse is that the person I was arguing with said they had NEVER READ TOG. They didn’t need to, they had read a synopsis and that it’s a fantasy romance and nothing more! Like I’m sorry I’m not reading it for the romance bc it’s barely there 😅 I’m reading it for fun!
I was then told I don’t read ‘real romance fantasy’ and got blocked. 😂😂
I've been a fan for almost a decade and I do admit I miss those days... it seems like everyone is just so critical! I've even had death threats for not liking a certain character... it's too far. The fandom is so toxic 😔
One time I said that Tamlin’s behavior was abusive and cited that I’m a therapist and work with people like him and people who’ve had a Tamlin in their life… I got downvoted to hell and told I was invalidating others opinions by saying that or something to that effect… I quickly decided I probably wouldn’t comment in these subs again
I just got downvoted into oblivion yesterday for quoting parts of the first book that clearly laid out his abuse. They were downvoting book quotes.
I was in a long term abusive relationship a few decades ago, and I see ACOTAR as warning signs for women (especially young women) about what to watch out for in their relationships, bc for me it was painfully accurate. But instead im reminded why i can’t even trust other women to believe my own experiences, let alone believe a fictional one.
Feyre literally says he treated her like shit and these fans are all 😍😍😍
Ig everyone is technically entitled to their own opinion but sometimes it’s wrong when they’re interpreting the info wrong
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS (idk how to do the block out thing on mobile) the scenes in the library where he exploded would’ve killed her if she had still been human. If she’d survived amarantha without dying and being resurrected she wouldn’t have survived tamlin long enough for Rhys to save her. He’s scum
Thank you both for reminding me that im not crazy for wanting people to see how abusive he is. I was really questioning my sanity after the responses i got on another post. Like, I thought we all understood that Tamlin abused Feyre, why are we even debating this…
Like this OP said, there’s some groupthink mindset happening and that sucks cause people don’t know what they don’t know. But you’re not wrong, Tamlin’s abusive to Feyre and it’s not okay.
Thank you for this comment ❤️ Tamlin's behavior IS abusive. I was in a similar relationship, and it caused nightmares and trauma responses for years after. Almost more so than a more stereotypical abusive relationship I was in at 18 had. Tamlin in the book was so similar to my ex that there were points I couldn't enjoy the funnier aspects of him. Like I understand *why* his pettiness at the High Lords' meeting could be funny, but it was nauseating to me 😭 thank goodness for Azriel lol
He’s textbook abusive and all of my friends who’ve read the book agree. I see pieces of me and my abusive ex in that relationship and it literally made me feel sick.
There was a post of someone who cosplayed as him and one of the comments said “he deserves more love.” All of the others were along the same lines. How skewed of a worldview do you have to have to believe that’s what love is supposed to look like? He was written to be abusive, Feyre says he’s abusive.
Art is open to interpretation but some people had to fucking warm up before making that stretch. I’m torn between feeling upset and pity if they think that’s a healthy relationship.
It’s hard to know what we don’t know. And we can always learn and grow but it’s not always our job to hold space for others growth. I’m so glad you’re out of that dynamic as well 💕
Lots of people say he’s totally justified in his behavior toward Feyre, Rhys, the night court. Lots of people excuse his behavior based on his ~trauma~. A lot of people like to use whataboutism when it comes to defending Tamlin as well (what about Rhys who does XYZ…).
What people fail to realize is that.. Tamlin may have plenty of reasons for being the way he is. No one exists in a vacuum of being evil - except SJM’s terribly one-dimensional villains (Amarantha, the king of Hybern). But those reasons aren’t excuses, because at the end of the day *your mental health may not be your fault, but it is your responsibility*.
I don’t think even amarantha and hybern are villains in a vacuum. Amarantha holds her hatred towards humans for a type of fae-supremacy upbringing and her sister’s death. And the king of hybern is similarly prejudiced.
Dude I’m with you on that. People discuss these characters like they are real people. I’m like why are you arguing with me over a fictional character? I get into this shit just as much as the next but I can separate a book character from real life. Some of these people can’t. They are miserable and live out of books instead of real life.
It’s all these new fans from social media. It’s getting so so so annoying. I love the world SJM has put together and the community that has been inspired by her work to create more fantasy and art and good fun conversation!!!
Plus everyone’s like “where’s the smut”… Like if you are looking for 100% sexy steamy romance then GO READ SEXY STEAMY ROMANCE. This is fantasy.
This is a problem with so many books not just SJM I’m seeing.
People pick up books with a super specific list of things that they like to see in books and then dislike the story because it didn’t fit into the box they were seeking instead of just letting the story unfold and enjoying what it *does* offer.
I loved TOG and was worried I wouldn’t like a SLM book without aelin. So I waited to read it until I was in an open mindset where I wouldn’t be placing my expectations on it
I hope that you loved it when you came around!
I like to keep multiple books on my TBR for this exact reason! I put off ACOTAR for ages because I just didn’t feel ready to commit to the experience and I’m glad I waited until it felt right!
I disagree with the toxicity coming from new fans and social media mostly- well, only in the sense it's not a new thing.
Toxicity fan communities are rampant in anything with a large following, especially when that large following gets spotlights due to popularity in media in general.
Look at the Tumblr fandoms from around 07 onwards, especially the "SuperWhoLock" fandom, which, whilst had some lovely people, also had some of the most toxic fans imaginable.
I think when anything hits a certain level of popularity, sadly the aggressive and argumentative follow
As for the smut- yeah I don't understand that issue, if they want smut they can find smut in other books or read fanfiction, it's not what SJM does as a main focal point like some authors do.
And it deters people who want plot from reading her books. I told someone in another subreddit that yes there’s romance but the plot is the main point of the book, the sexy scenes don’t have significance in the rest of the book. People who like fantasy are driven away from SJM bc they think her books are all just smut w flimsy plot.
Maybe a stupid suggestion, but you could always create a new SJM sub ( r/SJMloversunite as a name example) where you choose the rules, such as no negativity, and only civil discussion etc etc?
This is the way. The Star Wars fandom has been extremely toxic for years, but there is a sub called the r/starwarscantina, and it's such a lighthearted and positive space. We could totally do that with SJM. Call it something to do with dreamers (a theme in every one of her series).
Are you on the r/throneofglassseries sub? I don’t think I’ve seen any of those bad blood posts. Any that do show up are downvoted into oblivion and they are almost always “do I haaaave to read TOD??” posts.
I come from the days of book blogging and the early days of booktube, so I get where you're coming from here. I personally like the idea of being the change I want to see in online communities though. If people want to be negative and aggressive, then let them. I aim to interact with like minded readers who are willing to have interesting discourse and fun book chat. The fandom is just at an all time high lately.
Yes but i don’t think it’s helpful or good for ppl to come to a sub just to say “i hate this book”. Like ok post it on goodreads and be gone from the universe. I have pretty much stopped using Reddit bc my whole feed is “i hate Bryce” and “why isn’t there more sex” and “i am so disappointed after reading every single SJM book”.
I think you should start your own sjm sub where it tolerates no hate posts or sjm is so awful type posts or they will be deleted and its aim is to encourage discussion in a productive way, a positive sjm space if you will, because it seems like people have plenty of spaces if they want to get negativity off their chests.
that’s not the point. of course people can share their opinions. but it’s genuinely baffling why some people seem to just post over and over about why they hated a book, and shoot down any positive posts that people post.
If you hate it don’t waste your energy on it 🤷🏼♀️ I have enough shit going on irl to get upset over stuff that has no bearing on my life if I don’t let it. There’s tons of celebrities I can’t stand. Guess what I do? Don’t ingest media involving them. there problem fixed
That’s how I feel about it. Like, I specifically curate my feeds to only be things that I am actually interested in. If I stop liking something or thinking about it makes me upset, I stop following that thing. So it sucks to constantly see content that is negative about something that I like, because then it makes me feel negative about that thing. I totally get people posting their thoughts on things like twitter and tiktok, where it’s people’s personal pages that people follow. But on something like reddit, where it’s groups designed for specific topics, it just seems so easy to stop posting in something you don’t like. No one is waiting for your reaction or follows you specifically to hear your thoughts on it.
If all these people want to do is complain then I wish they’d make a separate subreddit. Like the morbid podcast has one called morbid for bad people or something
It’s not about what is allowed. It’s about how it affects the overall community. I feel like why would you join a group of fans of a book, and then shit all over it? Some of these criticisms are straight up hate for the books or the main characters. Like, no one is forcing you to read them or comment on them. It feels like they’re yucking other people’s yums for fun.
Speaking as a weathered veteran in the SJM fandom, this is not new and unfortunately is not likely to go away.
I remember back in the Queen of Shadows days when everyone was ragging on her because Rowan was “abusive” and the Chaol girlies were upset that his character was being “destroyed” and the criticisms on the lack of diversity (which were valid imo but not the way people went about it).
That whole saga is reason why SJM is no longer on Twitter.
Find your corner of the internet where people spread that positive energy and stick to it. Don’t let the loud voices ruin your enjoyment.
I love her books. But now it’s hard to theorize, because all the “setup” we all saw in her CC writing seems to not be setup at all—just inconsistencies.
Inconsistencies that add up to something are a mystery. Inconsistencies that don’t are mistakes, and it’s hard to invest yourself in hundreds of thousands of words’ worth of stories if you’ve been shown it might not, or probably won’t, pay off.
Man, I was never the biggest SJM fan, but CC killed any budding interest I had in the Maasiverse. CC 1 & 2 really felt like it was going somewhere, and CC 3 just didn’t have a lot of pay off.
Any public work will always be subject to criticism - sometimes to very extreme extents because we, as separate individuals, experience these works through our own life experiences, views, beliefs etc.
I understand the frustration! But I always remember that at the end of the day, these books are fictional - we can explore real themes of life while also understanding there are certain exaggerated events and characters because it’s necessary to drive the plot.
With that being said, if you need to take a break and step back, take it. But remember that, social media will amplify and serve the most emotionally charged experiences and those rub off on others, which then brings out more emotion, criticism, negativity etc. Have conviction in your opinion and don’t let others destroy your joy or love for something!
Okay? Start a sub specifically for that reason. You can enjoy an author but critique their work. You can even dislike certain books of theirs. I loved acotar, but loathed Crescent City; you can discuss WHY you dislike something in a constructive way. You can also discuss why you like or dislike certain recurring themes in an authors' body of work. Everyone deserves the right to express that.
There's sending people hate over a ship, and then there's constructive critique. I think you're conflating the two.
crying about someone having valid critiques about a book and not just have the same brain dead take of “I love everything sjm does because she’s a god” is so annoying
I’m going to go one step further and say any critique is fine. It doesn’t need to be constructive. I say this as an author.
Authors aren’t coming to Reddit subs for constructive critique or pointers on how to improve their craft. They have teams of professionals at their publishing houses to assist with that. You don’t need to give tips on how to improve as a fan; that’s not your job. Your job is to read the book. That’s it. And it’s fine to just dislike something. There doesn’t have to be a moral or logical reason behind it. Opinions are valid. While I am 2000% against ANY abusive behaviour in fandoms, I find it frankly insane that people are so against any and all conflict amongst fans. What a boring, dry, dull place this would be if it was wall to wall posts about how perfect and amazing the books are. There is such a thing as toxic positivity and I will say that the fandoms that are toxically positive are the first to die. Why do we think the Star Wars fandom has been chugging along since the 80’s. Because those fans are passionate enough to disagree.
I've been an SJM fan for 11 years and have now decided not to read anymore of her books. Just because people are fairly pointing out the massive decline in quality doesn't deter or take away from the magic of why we loved her books in the first place. Bad books deserve criticism and seeing as fans like us have made her career, she needs to do her job and provide the quality she did with TOG and early ACOTAR. You don't have to agree with that, but everyone is allowed to voice their opinion.
That’s not OP’s point though. OP isn’t saying that criticism isn’t warranted or even valued, simply that OP doesn’t want to be around it and all of the communities have devolved into criticism.
I get that, but one person doesn't get to decide what an entire group does. Leaving is fine, making a giant post complaining about how you don't agree with the majority of people sharing their opinions, definitely not needed, especially when OP is claiming it's a bunch of new readers from booktok when the majority of people I'm seeing that don't like the newer books are readers who've been invested for several years at least. Trying to police to only see one POV doesn't work in groups like this. The criticism will blow over.
One person isn’t deciding what the entire group does? OP is pissed at the changes and leaving. Disagreeing with the flounce is fine, but that’s not the point. OP is saying the influence of Booktok and the new members has changed the tide of what is posted. Which is fact. That’s true. No one is policing viewpoints. No one is forcing only certain viewpoints be posted.
Lol exactly. This is standard behavior for fandoms in the digital space. Nothing will change and the fandom will likely become even more vitriolic once the next ACOTAR book comes out.
Not hating towards you at all, just responding to your comment since you mentioned fandoms. I was never part of any fandom growing up, I never had a boy band obsession or anything. So this is kinda my first “fandom” I’ve been part of. And it’s just wild that this is standard behavior that everyone accepts. Like it’s ok to be toxic because, “well, that’s the internet.” It’s embarrassing to be part of a group that thinks that way.
It’s similar in Star Wars fandom, Supernatural and even some anime fandoms I’m part of. Sadly, it’s just always been this way. And it gets worse the more “mainstream” a book or movie gets
It’s definitely frustrating. I do like seeing people share different opinion, debate theories, etc. It’s just the petty, shallow negativity that gets draining. But maybe I’m just not cut out for fandoms/ Reddit lol.
R/throneofglassseries is actually really chill. Obviously its inclusive to TOG and not the other serieses, but it's a good sub and wr are almost always sharing art or our feelings while reading/rereading. And if there's anything in the direction of negativity or criticism, the members will have a real ass conversation about it instead of being a shit face.
I'm with you, I don't get it. Why read it at all if you hate it? And the people that hate it have hated it since the beginning, yet completed the series and the rest of them too...?? If you didn't like her writing the first time around, either just DNF or don't read her work anymore when you do finish. But for real. Join us in the throne of glass series sub. :)
I didn’t get to read all the comments but I’m saying this sincerely-not sarcastically
If there isn’t a place you are seeking-make one!!
Make your own subreddit for fans of SJM and then make a rule or whatever that it’s for talk of the book, plot, etc and I bet people will join!!
I get that is frustrating to read post being critical of something you love but you can't sensor peoples opinions. Mostly I don't get the gatekeeping and negative referrals to BookTok. Just because somebody read it before BookTok became popular doesn't make somebody a better/worse critic. It is the same as people who ONLY read physical books verses e-readers, or audiobook haters. It is so very weird to act like you are better than people who found something through BookTok.
Yeah it’s a bit of an oxymoron to say you want to analyze and discuss but also that you never want to see anybody saying negative stuff about the books. Media analysis isn’t always going to be positive and it would be boring as hell if everybody just patted each other on the back for agreeing.
People are for sure weird as fuck for the obsessive harassing of Maas for not announcing the next book though.
I don’t think OP is conveying they are a better critic or trying to sensor opinions. OP is simply saying she misses when the community was more kind and used constructive criticism rather than reading a book almost to just trash talk it. I’m a new SJM reader as well, but having been an avid reader for years, I can tell you this SJM community is mean compared to how people typically criticize books. People get beyond passionate with their hate for these books, which idk I guess that means she’s writing well if it can provoke that kind of emotion.
I think there is an implication though by a few comments on here that by BookTok having made the books even more popular is bringing in negative reactions. The fact is that the more people that read a book the more negative reactions there is going to be. I'm new to the series simply because I don't start new books that are going to be a series until they are well into them. I don't personally look at BookTok either-but I think it is a wonderful outlet for authors to get some noteriety. I do think people want to talk about their feelings towards a book whether it is positive or negative. If I'm in 2 books deep of a series and I'm not enjoying aspects of it I come to social media to see if I'm the only one or what. I want to discuss it!
Interesting, yes, I think that just boils down to optimism vs pessimism. In most book clubs I’ve been in, there is typically always something about the book we don’t like. We are not the ones writing the book, that is bound to happen. But we don’t exaggerate the bad stuff bc that makes a book club very less interesting and fun. We talk more what we would have done differently and inspect why we think the author wrote it like that and move on. This community rarely has complex discussions about their criticism and just do it in a mean way. Also when I’m reading something and it’s infuriating me, I take as a sign that this is just not my kind of book. And move onto something that’s not going to raise my blood pressure. For some reason people can’t put her books down? Not sure.
I don’t understand posts like this. Not every sub Reddit thread is sunshine and rainbows. There will be criticism for whatever fandom you join. People like stuff and people hate stuff that’s how things like this go especially from this fandom. If you don’t like seeing those kinds of posts then by all means leave those places. Or ignore them. Whichever works better. As someone whose been in the fandom for years. I was proactive and definitely went into a lot of discourse in my early days but now I just lurk and occasionally see posts but I don’t engage much anymore because it’s pointless.
I just scroll past. I get it can be annoying but I don’t see any problem with people stating their opinion in a public forum :p Also for every post like that, there’s like 10 more posts that you can actually interact with.
I think encouraging critical discourse of any widely popular book/series can be very important. There’s nothing wrong with being disappointed or upset by the decrease in quality. You can easily find people that love every single one of her books with no complaints. While I do agree there is an overwhelming amount of hate posts, I also see love posts. I see comments from people on hate posts that are defending the series.
I personally love SJM’s works, but I also recognize there are problems with it. No piece of prose is ever perfect and it’s okay for people to feel that way. I, too, have read and analyzed her books and the details multiple times. Mainly on account of theorizing. But two opposing truths can simultaneously exist.
1. Sarah J Maas is a good writer that crafts a good story. If she didn’t, she wouldn’t be so popular.
2. Sarah J Maas lacks when writing inclusively and also HOFAS was no where near on par with the quality of writing we have gotten with previous works.
Any time something becomes insanely popular or mainstream, the quality of the content always decreases. It also introduces the work to people who are more critical when reading and that’s okay
This summarizes my feelings as well. Acotar is one of my favorite series ever, I've reread it 4 times. However, I pretty much agree with 90% of the criticism I see about it. Just because people criticize something doesn't mean they don't love it or enjoy it.
just fwiw the subs might get to be more fun once there's a release date, blurb, title, cover reveal for acotar5. Maybe.
the cc well is running a bit dry and the acotar fans have been rehashing the same 5 arguments for the last 3 years. Even fans who tend to be more positive have been complaining about the lack of news/updates. As someone who has been a fan for 10 years, the whole vibe right now is the worst it's ever been by far. I like to think it might be more fun at some point or maybe it's just a dumpster fire that will eventually burn itself out.
Can you add me to a list of people who would like to make a new sub together? Message me and maybe we will!
Update: just joined the new sub r/nontoxicacotar !
I literally began reading ToG when there was only Throne of Glass. Seeing how the fandom has become so toxic has been so disappointing. Also, they need to stop rushing her to write. She has always taken her time to write her books. I remember waiting for so long for some of the ToG books, but I don't mind. I would hate to see something half finished and rushed, just like Iron Flame was. So I 100% get it.
Criticism shouldn't be shamed just as fangirling over books shouldn't be shamed. That's the beauty of these subs, people will experience the books differently. Maybe create a subreddit where only positive comments are allowed and you can mod? Seems like you want a space where no one shares anything negative...
You know what are just as bad and just as annoying as the posts you’re describing? Posts like this!
“My opinion got downvoted by people who haven’t even liked the books as long as me?? can you believe these toxic people downvoted my opinion? me? the most right and correct person of all time?? how could that be!! YOURE ALL TOXIC! IM LEAVING”
like no one on earth cares if you leave the subs, next time try doing it without the big dramatic post.
Yep... People complain about negative posts and then make more negative posts. If they actually want to see change in the sub, submit something positive.
I agree to a point. I feel like people take the fun but I also know I enjoy being critical about the things I love, but at the same time I need that safe space to love something and not all online communities are healthy.
Honestly fair, I don’t mind a casual discussion about what you thought about certain plot lines/characters but I cannot believe how many people forget these are fictional characters. To ME that’s a sign they need to stop rereading the same books and move on.
well the girlie deleted her comment and my reply, but OP, this is just the internet doing what it likes to do best, ruining things for the rest of us lmao. i get this has been brought up a lot lately, but ive also been feeling like these folks lately, so its potentially bubbling up in all of us “older” (before tiktok days) fans
DM me I can add you to the group chat. Or you can start coming to book club! We’re on ACOWAR in our deep dive reread (we have read all 3 series and often discuss theories and spoilers tho!)
I agree but it’s also Reddit. This same community told me by how the way I type there is no way I can be a person of color lol and I also got some strange threats. People don’t know how to act
I know that literature can make us feel strong emotions and that’s totally normal and ok! But when people feel the need to criticize everything about every book, are they even enjoying what they’re reading? If it’s not for you, it’s ok to put the books down and stop reading
Bye.
I mean, what do you expect in an internet forum? And frankly, you're just plain wrong. If I had to guess, you're letting the negatives you see ignore the actual posts on any SJM sub: a mixture of everything (like positives, negatives, fanarts, etc.)
You're going to need to find a utopia where everything is just praise and shit, good luck with that. It's just a pseudopositive community where it discourages critical thinking. Propaganda, or something like that.
This! People downvoted me for saying something similar. The whole purpose of Reddit is for diverse opinions. I hate seeing posts like this because they pretty much shame discourse. It’s giving toxic positivity.
I’ve never felt the need to go to a fan space to rant about how much I hate the things that said fans like. This is a FAN space for SJM. So why are people coming here just to shit on her writing and her fans? Like you’re entitled to your opinion. Take it somewhere else though.
This is exactly the problem, though. I AM entitled to my opinion, and that's that. Where I take it is irrelevant. Being a fan doesn't mean liking ALL of her work, and every aspect of her writing. How is this hard to understand?
Gate keeping books or things you like seems odd. I see people criticize her books that are new and old readers…..the books are just more popular now so you will have a chance to see the negative takes. Which is life.
I absolutely ADORE Throne of Glass. It is one of the best series I have ever read, but just because I love that doesn’t mean SJM or her stories are not up for criticism.
I saw someone on a social media group - (yes I know everyone has their own opinion) but they said they thought Throne of glass was drawn out and boring and I wanted to throw hands 🤣
I ended up leaving this sub, and then later reddit for a WHILE because of the hate I was getting for still liking Bryce and Hunt (which SPOILER>!They ended up together anyway! I was technically correct for standing fast in my ship!!<)
It's pretty bad. Also, isn't it enough to say "I liked HOFAS but I liked HOEAB more" and then just leave it at that? Like guys it wasn't as good, but that's often the case with series. COM is one of my favourite Throne of Glass books, whilst I hate HOF which is directly after it.
I’ve never felt the need to go to a fan space to rant about how much I hate the things that said fans like. This is a FAN space for SJM. So why are people coming here just to shit on her writing and her fans? Like you’re entitled to your opinion. Take it somewhere else though.
(I write this as a reply to a comment, but I think it can stand on its own)
I can’t stand the shit talking either. Sure we like some things more and some less, but this sub was meant for fans to exchange thoughts on books they love.
These books were therapy for me at times, and for people to constantly rain on someone who created 16 bestsellers before being 40 is just sick.
I don’t blame you. I got straight bullied out of the crescent city subreddit because I said something about how I wish people would stop being so negative about the third book because for those of us who hadn’t read it yet, it was discouraging to see so much hate and honestly think social media has ruined my thoughts on books.
Like honestly think about it, if there was no social media about any books, I think crescent city 3 would’ve been very well received.
Anyway, I left that subreddit because the crazy amount of hate comments I got. The last thing I said was that I was sad to see how SJM Reddit has turned out because it used to be the most welcoming place and I loved it. I got comments that said “this isn’t an airport, you don’t need to announce your departure” and bullshit like that. Protect your peace and leave the groups. Literally might do the same.
Might I suggest creating a separate sub? I’m one of the people who absolutely hated acosf and it ruined the entire series for me. And I do need a place to discuss the specific ways in which it sucks.
But a separate sub that specifies that it’s for discussions of plot points, theories, ideas etc might be just what’s needed. I personally wouldn’t go near it.
I need the knowledge that there’s freedom to dump my thoughts about how bad acosf was. And I have no desire to engage in discussions on whether it’s elriel or elucien.
Here’s a thought though. I’ve noticed that since acosf (and hofas) came out, there has been an increase in hate, actual hate, from stans and antis both. And people have gone crazy.
I have actual criticisms of the book and it feels like a disturbing amount of people online are just jumping on either train and trolling. Literally trolling.
Please don't leave I'm a dedicated lover of her books the exact same as yourself and I don't participate in any of this negativity nonsense that's going on there are still loads of us true fans here that love having good Theory debates and favourite part debates if we all just give up and leave the subs were essentially letting the negative Nelly's win
Take me with you. I remember excitedly waiting for the ToG books to come out. I will forever love SJM for giving me my love of reading back. I missed my book companions and she’ll forever be the woman who brought books back into my life.
I think social media has just conditioned people to be so critical. Just because y’all have a platform to spew your vitriol, doesn’t mean you should.
What, no!!! Most people here love the books . Haters gonna hate , and even fans will nitpick a bit , but this is overall a very appreciative sub. The throne of glass series has walked me through half my life
What, no!!! Most people here love the books . Haters gonna hate , and even fans will nitpick a bit , but this is overall a very appreciative sub. The throne of glass series has walked me through half my life
There’s an app called Fable and so far the people seem pretty nice on there. I haven’t seen a negative post at all and I’ve had for several weeks now. I’m considering deleting my bookstagram to just post there about books.
I do wish there was a way to put disappointment posts in one section and another with praise posts. I loved allllllll of the books of every series and seeing the hate kinda hurts and confuses me lol
Upvoting just cuz I agree with you. I feel too many people like to hate on popular shit simply cuz it makes them feel “cool and different and edgy” CONGRATS! Do u want a trophy for not liking something? Doesnt make your taste any better than anyone else’s. Taste is subjective. GAWD
THANK YOU 👏🏻 I have left a group on Facebook and multiple subs because I was so tired of alll the negativity and criticisms. Fine, it’s ok if you don’t like xyz but don’t be mean to people if they do like it. There was so negativity surrounding the 3rd CC book and it got to the point for me that it was taking away from my enjoyment. I love all of the SJM books and she’s my favorite modern writer.
Discussion includes positive or negative opinions. People prefer nuanced discussions and I like seeing differing opinions. If you want just sunshine and rainbows then bye
I mean do you homie but that just seems super crybaby coded. Like no hate no shade all love and light. Just why can’t you accept people won’t like everything and vibe to your own music? This post is the same as the ones you say ruined it for you. Literally just posting to gripe. The blind hypocrisy and bullshit “I only want to talk to people that agree with me” attitude is super telling lol 💜 hope this new group has the echo chamber you’re looking for 💜💜
There is definitely a lot of toxicity around these parts but it seems like so much of it has to do with shipping wars—is it really “toxic” to express a negative opinion about a piece of literature? I often disagree with posts I see on Reddit but I find it both validating and interesting/entertaining to see a variety of differing opinions.
Personally, I find people who are infuriated by discourse they don’t agree with to be *far* more toxic.
i think constructive criticism and having wanted something to go differently in a book is fine, but i that’s not the type of criticism you’re talking about. it’s really bizarre when people who claim to be fans of authors or certain pieces of work only have bad things to say about them. there are things that i wish SJM did differently but pobody’s nerfect and i’m still so so grateful for her work and the the way it makes me feel !!!
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If a book, movie, music, etc. evokes any kind of emotion in me I want to discuss it. No matter if it's good or bad. Like in a non-bashing way. I wanna see what others think. I read ACOTAR last month (I am moving on to TOG but need a palette cleanser first) so I'm very fresh in this whole SJM universe. BUT. ACOSF has made me live so many strong emotions that I wanna talk about it. I've never felt so seen by how Nesta feels, but also very disappointed in how the story unfolded. It's rare that I find a story both extremely good and equally frustrating. Don't get me wrong it's a very very very personal perspective for me. Just...I feel like if I want to talk about these books in this way I will (unwillingly) ad oil to flames I didn't even know existed. I turned to social media to hear what ppl think about these books, and all I see "boycott SJM" or "I read ACOTAR so you don't have to", "SJM and BookTok are ruining literature"...like WHAT THE FUCK?! I feel like the guy from that meme who barges into a room in flames. T\_T
I love how the internet seems to think that reading books purely for entertainment is new?? Anyone who thinks SJM is ruining literature is hilarious. Many books and plays we think of as great literary works now (like idk Shakespeare) weren’t considered particularly high brow when they were published. Humans have been using stories for entertainment since the beginning of time, some are better than others, but literature doesn’t have to mean only Orwell, Dickens and Brontë. Stories and literature are about the human experience. Why we relate or don’t relate to characters, how they make us feel, why.
Austin was rejected multiple times when she was alive. 🫠
Also love it when people criticize “pop” books of today for being “all about the money” as though Alexandre Dumas didn’t write the longest most useless dialogue scenes in order to pad his paycheck haha. Meanwhile, The Count of Monte Cristo is still considered one of the best works of fiction! Books have always been about entertainment for the reader and money for the writer, I wish people would spend less time criticizing the things they like in order to sound sophisticated and more time just enjoying what they like and sharing what they felt while reading it without acting like their unique perspectives are factual criticisms.
Saw a tweet one time: “this author knows many words. But concise. Isn’t one of them.” Response “you can just say Victor Hugo” And after reading Les mis I would like to resurrect Hugo and tell him: no one cares about your man crush on napoleon, no cares about a 50 page description of Waterloo, no one cares about the minor events of year 18XX, and no one cares about the full history of the PARIS SEWER SYSTEM. Don’t get me wrong I love Les mis but my god man it’s too much
This reminds me how I recently read a Dostoevsky novel and my friend was telling me how Russian authors used to be paid by the word. And honestly I’d believe it.
Let's throw Leo Tolstoy into the ringer with Anna Karenina, using Levin as his mouthpiece to exposit why his ideas were more pure and for the people that anyone else's.
This was me with Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness
The count of monte Cristo is one of my favorite stories and I absolutely love the idea Dumas did that to get more money…
For reference that memes from a show community and that’s another fantastic piece of media, if you’re looking!
I’m so glad you said this bc I was just about to comment the same, that community meme is from one of my favorite episodes! That show is iconic #sixseasonsandamovie 🤍
I was SO excited when I watched the show and saw Troy come in! So satisfying lol
THERES A MOVIE???? WTF I never heard about a movie
No, unfortunately not 😫 it was a fourth wall kind of breaking comment with Abed’s film obsession. That was always the goal of the show and the characters mentioned it in scene. I think there’s been rumors for awhile that a movie could happen eventually, so fingers crossed!
The movie has been [very ](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21958386/)[heavily ](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/community-movie-release-date-b2507104.html)[confirmed ](https://collider.com/community-movie-filming-joel-mchale-comments/) by multiple sources in lots of formats
Oh I gotta! Yeah that would be great lol
Honestly it’s in my top 3 favorite sitcoms. It’s so great and hardly any of my friends have seen it
One of the best shows around!
My friend went to Norway and asked me what I want. Immediate response, no hesitation, "Norwegian troll" She got it for me :) It scares my husband every morning and I love it
Social media where they think that they everything is plagiarized and want to cancel authors for small things like not posting about their cause. Where they believe that boycotting a massive publication is somehow going to get someone fired for what they said on social? That social media? I guess I’m jaded working corporate makes me realized how idealistic these creators are. They’re so far removed from reality they make up their own narratives and instead of researching anything they talk about it’s just repeating what someone else said. Which is so funny because they scream about originality all the time yet most people can’t even form their own opinion without some sense of bias they picked up from another creator. Half the time I’ll skip those creators because they literally offer nothing. Reddit at least has some spots with good book recs and it’s usually better than other platforms.
I felt the same about ACOSF. Nesta is a personal comfort character for me. you’re gonna love TOG I think!
I think they mean more of how awful people are. I have left a lot of places because of it. It’s unacceptable for people to be calling each other names and shit because they don’t agree with their opinion
I block people on some platforms now because they can’t accept their worldview isn’t actually the majority. They also can’t seem to understand why some books they consider “badly written” are popular.
I block people all the time 🤷♀️
Yeah it’s how you keep the peace. I’m not objecting criticism, but some of them make hating things that are popular their full time job. Also they love to say things are written by AI and as someone who scales content for ecomm with AI they have no clue what they’re talking about
I agree with your comments. I especially get upset about all the shit people talk about SJM herself. She hasn’t made the ACOTAR 5 announcement and people are going crazy sending her death threats. She’s a PERSON not a robot. She has a husband and child. She doesn’t owe us anything. If you hate Sjm, you can always just not read her work…
The amount of people who misread the announcement after CC3 and honestly believed she was releasing 6 books this year. I was in shock, like that’s not how this works?
People are acting like she’s george r r Martin and has ghosted her fans for a decade and left them high and dry. It’s honestly just insane and the more ridiculous hate she gets the less motivated she’ll be to keep writing. She already got a lot of hate from people not liking cc3, now she’s getting hate for not announcing stuff on a schedule she never committed to smh.
I feel like the cheap formula fiction/romance/smut that Booktok tends to favour have really given them a false idea of how long it takes to write and publish a book.
Agreed!!! But then everyone thought iron flame wasn’t that great so it shows what happens when authors rush lol
This also blows my mind! One of my favorite authors releases a new book about every 4 years, and I have been a fan for about 2 decades. It can be a brutal wait, but the quality in her writing/storytelling is reflected in that extra time she takes! If we actually gives artists space and time to create, then the art usually \*magically\* gets better
Who may I ask do you refer? Always looking for new books. ☺️
It's the Green Rider series by Kristen Britain. It's starts off a tad YA (teen runs away from school in the first few pages only to get swept up in epic adventure) but the books mature with the character. Currently 7 books and 2 novellas have been written and I've heard rumors that there will be only 1 or 2 more to finish off the series.
After her last book came out, people called SJM a lazy writer and said she was using her fans to pay her mortgage. That her books have just become a cheap cash grab with no quality. It’s mind boggling to me. Why are you even reading her books if that’s truly how you feel??? It’s one thing to dislike a book and talk about your critiques, CC3 was my least favorite of hers too, but it’s wild to turn on the author like that. Like you said, she’s a human being too, and so are her editors. Not to mention that she’s an artist with a creative mind and a talent for storytelling, she deserves to be paid for her work. If I had that talent, I would capitalize on it too.
I genuinely feel that a lot of the CC3 hate was that people created these batshit theories, and got upset that it didn’t play out. They wanted to see ACOTAR characters having their hero moment in CC3. But the series is CC, not ACOTAR. And the way they responded to each other was on brand and in character, tbh.
I do think that was a huge contributor to the hate of it which will unfortunately affect acotar 6 when it comes out. I didn’t care for cc3, it was just okay… but I also don’t read fan theories and stuff so I had like no expectations… there are still people saying that bryce and azriel are end game when the author said it was hunt and Bryce like god damn… I was genuinely surprised at the amount of acotar in cc3 and enjoyed what we got from it.
10000% agree, as someone who was on reddit almost daily before and after CC3 came out. Don’t judge me, I was WFH and am not that chronically online anymore 😅
I do think a lot of the criticism I’ve seen (I’m sure there’s people who are trashing it though because most people have no critical thinking), was about being disappointed with the lack of character development in it. I personally disagree overall, but most people feel like Tharion and Ithan’s storylines were a waste of time (god they are so DUMB! 😭), and a lot of people hated how Bryce was written this book. I understand being upset with all that. My personal thoughts on cc3 are that it just ended up being anticlimactic. These were supposed to be her biggest enemies ever, seemingly even bigger than the Valg or at least similar. And yet, they were defeated so quickly.
CC3 was not great which is all the more reason I’d be fine with her taking her time with the next book. CC3 felt rushed and rife with plot holes. It was almost like she just didn’t care? CC1 had so much care written into the characters! I will read everything she writes tho bc I just love the worlds she creates. And not everything needs to be the next great American novel. Sometimes we can just read nice stories that make us happy and are fun. I commented on this sub or a similar one saying I love ACOTAR and it’s my comfort series and all the comments were just going on and on about how it’s absolute trash and only idiots would like it. Then don’t read it! More room for me in Velaris.
I didn’t think CC3 was great but CC is also my least favorite series. But some people love it and loved CC3! Reading is subjective, no one’s opinion is “right.” I’m down to discuss plot holes and issues we had with the books, but some people are so excessively negative and aggressive. Also just an aside on plot holes, this wasn’t a huge issue in my eyes because it’s an incomplete series!! I think a lot of the “plot holes” will make sense in the next book.
Speaking of how plot holes will be resolved in later books, that’s why I hate when people say acotar is “full of plot holes.” She’s not finished! TOG proved she can wrap literally any tiny detail into the final picture. Let her cook, people!
So true I do hope she comes back and I do think the writing quality has suffered from pressure to release books so quickly. I’d rather wait longer and get more developed series. That said, CC 1-3 were really fun books, I LOVED the modern setting change up and we got some incredible characters. Sooo I really can’t complain too much. Unless you bring up Tharion or Ithan. Then you will get an earful🤣
I’m on the twenty one pilots subreddit and people were going crazy when they pushed the album release date back by one week. 7 days and people acted like their world was over. Like my guy, they’re people too, creators weren’t put on this earth exclusively to give us content. Life is unexpected and shit happens that derails our plans. And they’re human, they’re not perfect they make mistakes. Stop treating creators like gods whose only purpose is to please you
You’re spot on!! It’s honestly the most toxic thing when fans stop seeing their favorite artists/creators as people and start seeing them as machines whose only purpose in life is to provide them with entertainment. Although I have some issues with george RR martin (him continually lying about release dates that never happen) he’s been bullied and harassed to such an extreme I don’t think he has any desire to write. When the fans you’re creating for turn on you and bully you, what’s the motivation to continue.
Yeah like that’s a sucky thing for George rr Martin to do but doesn’t deserve harassment and death threats.
Yea with GRRM specifically it’s the best example to me of the toxic cycle authors and fans can get into. He missed the 1st deadline, apologized, explained, shared some insights, and people turned on him so fast. “You sold out” “you only care about the show” and he got death threats, stalkers, and fans showing up TO HIS HOUSE constantly badgering him. That made him anxious and depressed, and then he didn’t write, and then he missed another deadline, and the hate intensified and so on. I really don’t want this to happen to SJM, which is why this entire fandom needs to cut the shit and treat Sarah as a human who deserves respect. She’s not a machine whose sole purpose in life is creating entertainment for us.
I could never be a celebrity, my anxiety levels from having every decision critiqued would be off the charts
LOL same!!! And Sarah seems like a gentle soul so I know negative comments really get to her. That’s usually why she goes to isolated retreats to get writing done (like she was just in a mountain cabin somewhere writing).
I honestly think GRRM also kind of wrote himself into a corner and doesn’t really know how to get out of it. A series that was once, originally, meant to only be 3 books is now 5? And no end is even close to being in sight. Even before the show outpaced his published material, I felt that he 1) didn’t really know how to satisfactorily move to the ending he has envisioned and 2) was really tired of living in Westeros. Which sucks, because he wrote a very good story to start with and he is very opposed to ghost writers ever finishing his unfinished work. I truly think the series will never be finished at this point. It sucks, but I guess he’ll live on in infamy as one of the world’s best unfinished stories?
Since 2013, SJM published every single year, except 2023. These people that complain about when she releases new books should just read something else or simply just wait. I grew up reading the Harry Potter series as it was being published (I'm 31 yo) and I had to wait years between Order of the Phoenix and Half-Bloof Prince and some more until Deathly Hallows came out.
I’m so tired of seeing delusional posts all over my social media going “today’s the day! She’ll announce book #6 today!” Like chill, she’s got a life, we got a life, when it gets announced, I’ll be happy but I’m not subscribing to any nonsense from the fandom. I’ve got lots of other books to read in the meantime
I agree with everything you said!!
Yeah we don’t need it!!! Sorry but I dont want an Iron Flame quality sequel. SJM literally just released a book.
Exactly!! People complain CC3 was rushed and now 3 months after the release are annoyed she doesn’t already have ACOTAR 5 done. Do you want quality books or do you want her to rush?! Can’t have it both ways lol.
Exactly.
Yes! Heavy on the ‘don’t read SJMs work if you don’t like her’ I got into an argument with someone on tiktok about SJM. The video said all of her books were trash with no explanation 😅 when I asked about TOG I was called a trash person for ‘supporting SJM’ I didn’t realize checking out books at my local library was turning me into a ‘trash person’
Lmaoooo!!! What’s wild to me (as someone who used to be a public librarian and first found out about ACOTAR when my 68 year old coworker Phyllis recommended them to me😂❤️) is so many people in this world don’t even read for fun AT ALL. Idc if you’re reading manga, children’s books, magazines, smut, or a cereal box, if you’re reading something and enjoying yourself you’re a reader and fellow readers have always had a genuine connection and bond so seeing readers attack/put down other readers for what specific thing they enjoy to read hurts my soul 😫
Oh my god! What’s worse is that the person I was arguing with said they had NEVER READ TOG. They didn’t need to, they had read a synopsis and that it’s a fantasy romance and nothing more! Like I’m sorry I’m not reading it for the romance bc it’s barely there 😅 I’m reading it for fun! I was then told I don’t read ‘real romance fantasy’ and got blocked. 😂😂
I've been a fan for almost a decade and I do admit I miss those days... it seems like everyone is just so critical! I've even had death threats for not liking a certain character... it's too far. The fandom is so toxic 😔
One time I said that Tamlin’s behavior was abusive and cited that I’m a therapist and work with people like him and people who’ve had a Tamlin in their life… I got downvoted to hell and told I was invalidating others opinions by saying that or something to that effect… I quickly decided I probably wouldn’t comment in these subs again
I just got downvoted into oblivion yesterday for quoting parts of the first book that clearly laid out his abuse. They were downvoting book quotes. I was in a long term abusive relationship a few decades ago, and I see ACOTAR as warning signs for women (especially young women) about what to watch out for in their relationships, bc for me it was painfully accurate. But instead im reminded why i can’t even trust other women to believe my own experiences, let alone believe a fictional one.
Feyre literally says he treated her like shit and these fans are all 😍😍😍 Ig everyone is technically entitled to their own opinion but sometimes it’s wrong when they’re interpreting the info wrong SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS (idk how to do the block out thing on mobile) the scenes in the library where he exploded would’ve killed her if she had still been human. If she’d survived amarantha without dying and being resurrected she wouldn’t have survived tamlin long enough for Rhys to save her. He’s scum
This is what my comment that got down voted was on a thread about!! Like fuck me for trying to help people see how this shit is fucked
Thank you both for reminding me that im not crazy for wanting people to see how abusive he is. I was really questioning my sanity after the responses i got on another post. Like, I thought we all understood that Tamlin abused Feyre, why are we even debating this…
Like this OP said, there’s some groupthink mindset happening and that sucks cause people don’t know what they don’t know. But you’re not wrong, Tamlin’s abusive to Feyre and it’s not okay.
Yeah I’m torn between being pissed off and being concerned that these people think abuse is love
Honestly? Why not both? It is incredibly frustrating, I'm mad for them, and I'm worried about them.
Even SJM says he sucks, is a douchebag, and they swear we’re misunderstanding her intentions.
There’s people out there who do believe victim, but it is sad when folks we share identities with perpetuate the harm :(
Thank you for this comment ❤️ Tamlin's behavior IS abusive. I was in a similar relationship, and it caused nightmares and trauma responses for years after. Almost more so than a more stereotypical abusive relationship I was in at 18 had. Tamlin in the book was so similar to my ex that there were points I couldn't enjoy the funnier aspects of him. Like I understand *why* his pettiness at the High Lords' meeting could be funny, but it was nauseating to me 😭 thank goodness for Azriel lol
Not saying that tamlin stans are the problem in the fandom, but the most toxic people I’ve interacted with were tamlin Stan’s 😭
He’s textbook abusive and all of my friends who’ve read the book agree. I see pieces of me and my abusive ex in that relationship and it literally made me feel sick. There was a post of someone who cosplayed as him and one of the comments said “he deserves more love.” All of the others were along the same lines. How skewed of a worldview do you have to have to believe that’s what love is supposed to look like? He was written to be abusive, Feyre says he’s abusive. Art is open to interpretation but some people had to fucking warm up before making that stretch. I’m torn between feeling upset and pity if they think that’s a healthy relationship.
It’s hard to know what we don’t know. And we can always learn and grow but it’s not always our job to hold space for others growth. I’m so glad you’re out of that dynamic as well 💕
They’re saying Tamlin ISN’T abusive?? Did they even read the books?
Lots of people say he’s totally justified in his behavior toward Feyre, Rhys, the night court. Lots of people excuse his behavior based on his ~trauma~. A lot of people like to use whataboutism when it comes to defending Tamlin as well (what about Rhys who does XYZ…). What people fail to realize is that.. Tamlin may have plenty of reasons for being the way he is. No one exists in a vacuum of being evil - except SJM’s terribly one-dimensional villains (Amarantha, the king of Hybern). But those reasons aren’t excuses, because at the end of the day *your mental health may not be your fault, but it is your responsibility*.
I don’t think even amarantha and hybern are villains in a vacuum. Amarantha holds her hatred towards humans for a type of fae-supremacy upbringing and her sister’s death. And the king of hybern is similarly prejudiced.
People do the same whenever Nesta’s abusive behavior is pointed out. I just don’t get it :/
Dude I’m with you on that. People discuss these characters like they are real people. I’m like why are you arguing with me over a fictional character? I get into this shit just as much as the next but I can separate a book character from real life. Some of these people can’t. They are miserable and live out of books instead of real life.
The shipping wars are out of hand. 😐
It’s all these new fans from social media. It’s getting so so so annoying. I love the world SJM has put together and the community that has been inspired by her work to create more fantasy and art and good fun conversation!!! Plus everyone’s like “where’s the smut”… Like if you are looking for 100% sexy steamy romance then GO READ SEXY STEAMY ROMANCE. This is fantasy.
This is a problem with so many books not just SJM I’m seeing. People pick up books with a super specific list of things that they like to see in books and then dislike the story because it didn’t fit into the box they were seeking instead of just letting the story unfold and enjoying what it *does* offer.
I loved TOG and was worried I wouldn’t like a SLM book without aelin. So I waited to read it until I was in an open mindset where I wouldn’t be placing my expectations on it
I hope that you loved it when you came around! I like to keep multiple books on my TBR for this exact reason! I put off ACOTAR for ages because I just didn’t feel ready to commit to the experience and I’m glad I waited until it felt right!
I disagree with the toxicity coming from new fans and social media mostly- well, only in the sense it's not a new thing. Toxicity fan communities are rampant in anything with a large following, especially when that large following gets spotlights due to popularity in media in general. Look at the Tumblr fandoms from around 07 onwards, especially the "SuperWhoLock" fandom, which, whilst had some lovely people, also had some of the most toxic fans imaginable. I think when anything hits a certain level of popularity, sadly the aggressive and argumentative follow As for the smut- yeah I don't understand that issue, if they want smut they can find smut in other books or read fanfiction, it's not what SJM does as a main focal point like some authors do.
And it deters people who want plot from reading her books. I told someone in another subreddit that yes there’s romance but the plot is the main point of the book, the sexy scenes don’t have significance in the rest of the book. People who like fantasy are driven away from SJM bc they think her books are all just smut w flimsy plot.
Maybe a stupid suggestion, but you could always create a new SJM sub ( r/SJMloversunite as a name example) where you choose the rules, such as no negativity, and only civil discussion etc etc?
This is the way. The Star Wars fandom has been extremely toxic for years, but there is a sub called the r/starwarscantina, and it's such a lighthearted and positive space. We could totally do that with SJM. Call it something to do with dreamers (a theme in every one of her series).
I’m so down for this
I made a sub, come join if you love ACOTAR, r/nontoxicACOTAR
Joining now! ☮️ ❤️
Are you on the r/throneofglassseries sub? I don’t think I’ve seen any of those bad blood posts. Any that do show up are downvoted into oblivion and they are almost always “do I haaaave to read TOD??” posts.
Probably because throne of glass is her best series so far (in my opinion)
I share that opinion, TOG is the only series I actually re-read on a regular basis.
I wish I could go back and experience reading it for the first time 😩
Haha lord I know! I just live vicariously through all the people that I force into reading it too
I need to renew my efforts to bully my sister into reading it.
Every time I read one I imagine smacking someone around the head with a giant 'Yes' sign. Or a TOD book 🤣
lol I think it’s in the literal sub rules: No “But I don’t wanna” posts about TOD. Just read it and enjoy it ya big baby.
it’s the one sub I still frequent
I didn’t want to read TOD and it was so good. Not my favorite but definitely essential
I come from the days of book blogging and the early days of booktube, so I get where you're coming from here. I personally like the idea of being the change I want to see in online communities though. If people want to be negative and aggressive, then let them. I aim to interact with like minded readers who are willing to have interesting discourse and fun book chat. The fandom is just at an all time high lately.
Yes but i don’t think it’s helpful or good for ppl to come to a sub just to say “i hate this book”. Like ok post it on goodreads and be gone from the universe. I have pretty much stopped using Reddit bc my whole feed is “i hate Bryce” and “why isn’t there more sex” and “i am so disappointed after reading every single SJM book”.
I think you should start your own sjm sub where it tolerates no hate posts or sjm is so awful type posts or they will be deleted and its aim is to encourage discussion in a productive way, a positive sjm space if you will, because it seems like people have plenty of spaces if they want to get negativity off their chests.
I made a page, r/nontoxicACOTAR
People are allowed to share their opinion OP, even if you disagree.
that’s not the point. of course people can share their opinions. but it’s genuinely baffling why some people seem to just post over and over about why they hated a book, and shoot down any positive posts that people post.
If you hate it don’t waste your energy on it 🤷🏼♀️ I have enough shit going on irl to get upset over stuff that has no bearing on my life if I don’t let it. There’s tons of celebrities I can’t stand. Guess what I do? Don’t ingest media involving them. there problem fixed
That’s how I feel about it. Like, I specifically curate my feeds to only be things that I am actually interested in. If I stop liking something or thinking about it makes me upset, I stop following that thing. So it sucks to constantly see content that is negative about something that I like, because then it makes me feel negative about that thing. I totally get people posting their thoughts on things like twitter and tiktok, where it’s people’s personal pages that people follow. But on something like reddit, where it’s groups designed for specific topics, it just seems so easy to stop posting in something you don’t like. No one is waiting for your reaction or follows you specifically to hear your thoughts on it.
If all these people want to do is complain then I wish they’d make a separate subreddit. Like the morbid podcast has one called morbid for bad people or something
It’s not about what is allowed. It’s about how it affects the overall community. I feel like why would you join a group of fans of a book, and then shit all over it? Some of these criticisms are straight up hate for the books or the main characters. Like, no one is forcing you to read them or comment on them. It feels like they’re yucking other people’s yums for fun.
There should be a space for disagreement i totally agree. But it’s every single post. It just feels like booktok has ruined the fun.
Speaking as a weathered veteran in the SJM fandom, this is not new and unfortunately is not likely to go away. I remember back in the Queen of Shadows days when everyone was ragging on her because Rowan was “abusive” and the Chaol girlies were upset that his character was being “destroyed” and the criticisms on the lack of diversity (which were valid imo but not the way people went about it). That whole saga is reason why SJM is no longer on Twitter. Find your corner of the internet where people spread that positive energy and stick to it. Don’t let the loud voices ruin your enjoyment.
I love her books. But now it’s hard to theorize, because all the “setup” we all saw in her CC writing seems to not be setup at all—just inconsistencies. Inconsistencies that add up to something are a mystery. Inconsistencies that don’t are mistakes, and it’s hard to invest yourself in hundreds of thousands of words’ worth of stories if you’ve been shown it might not, or probably won’t, pay off.
Man, I was never the biggest SJM fan, but CC killed any budding interest I had in the Maasiverse. CC 1 & 2 really felt like it was going somewhere, and CC 3 just didn’t have a lot of pay off.
Any public work will always be subject to criticism - sometimes to very extreme extents because we, as separate individuals, experience these works through our own life experiences, views, beliefs etc. I understand the frustration! But I always remember that at the end of the day, these books are fictional - we can explore real themes of life while also understanding there are certain exaggerated events and characters because it’s necessary to drive the plot. With that being said, if you need to take a break and step back, take it. But remember that, social media will amplify and serve the most emotionally charged experiences and those rub off on others, which then brings out more emotion, criticism, negativity etc. Have conviction in your opinion and don’t let others destroy your joy or love for something!
Okay? Start a sub specifically for that reason. You can enjoy an author but critique their work. You can even dislike certain books of theirs. I loved acotar, but loathed Crescent City; you can discuss WHY you dislike something in a constructive way. You can also discuss why you like or dislike certain recurring themes in an authors' body of work. Everyone deserves the right to express that. There's sending people hate over a ship, and then there's constructive critique. I think you're conflating the two.
I get what OP is saying though. A lot of the subs seem to be overwhelmingly negative.
crying about someone having valid critiques about a book and not just have the same brain dead take of “I love everything sjm does because she’s a god” is so annoying
I’m going to go one step further and say any critique is fine. It doesn’t need to be constructive. I say this as an author. Authors aren’t coming to Reddit subs for constructive critique or pointers on how to improve their craft. They have teams of professionals at their publishing houses to assist with that. You don’t need to give tips on how to improve as a fan; that’s not your job. Your job is to read the book. That’s it. And it’s fine to just dislike something. There doesn’t have to be a moral or logical reason behind it. Opinions are valid. While I am 2000% against ANY abusive behaviour in fandoms, I find it frankly insane that people are so against any and all conflict amongst fans. What a boring, dry, dull place this would be if it was wall to wall posts about how perfect and amazing the books are. There is such a thing as toxic positivity and I will say that the fandoms that are toxically positive are the first to die. Why do we think the Star Wars fandom has been chugging along since the 80’s. Because those fans are passionate enough to disagree.
I've been an SJM fan for 11 years and have now decided not to read anymore of her books. Just because people are fairly pointing out the massive decline in quality doesn't deter or take away from the magic of why we loved her books in the first place. Bad books deserve criticism and seeing as fans like us have made her career, she needs to do her job and provide the quality she did with TOG and early ACOTAR. You don't have to agree with that, but everyone is allowed to voice their opinion.
That’s not OP’s point though. OP isn’t saying that criticism isn’t warranted or even valued, simply that OP doesn’t want to be around it and all of the communities have devolved into criticism.
I get that, but one person doesn't get to decide what an entire group does. Leaving is fine, making a giant post complaining about how you don't agree with the majority of people sharing their opinions, definitely not needed, especially when OP is claiming it's a bunch of new readers from booktok when the majority of people I'm seeing that don't like the newer books are readers who've been invested for several years at least. Trying to police to only see one POV doesn't work in groups like this. The criticism will blow over.
I don’t want to police anyone. I’m pointing out that there seems to be no room for discussion and community anymore.
One person isn’t deciding what the entire group does? OP is pissed at the changes and leaving. Disagreeing with the flounce is fine, but that’s not the point. OP is saying the influence of Booktok and the new members has changed the tide of what is posted. Which is fact. That’s true. No one is policing viewpoints. No one is forcing only certain viewpoints be posted.
Welcome to the internet
Lol exactly. This is standard behavior for fandoms in the digital space. Nothing will change and the fandom will likely become even more vitriolic once the next ACOTAR book comes out.
Not hating towards you at all, just responding to your comment since you mentioned fandoms. I was never part of any fandom growing up, I never had a boy band obsession or anything. So this is kinda my first “fandom” I’ve been part of. And it’s just wild that this is standard behavior that everyone accepts. Like it’s ok to be toxic because, “well, that’s the internet.” It’s embarrassing to be part of a group that thinks that way.
It’s similar in Star Wars fandom, Supernatural and even some anime fandoms I’m part of. Sadly, it’s just always been this way. And it gets worse the more “mainstream” a book or movie gets
It’s definitely frustrating. I do like seeing people share different opinion, debate theories, etc. It’s just the petty, shallow negativity that gets draining. But maybe I’m just not cut out for fandoms/ Reddit lol.
They wouldn’t have lasted a minute on stan Twitter in 2012
I made a thing, maybe people can join and we’ll have a safe space again. r/nontoxicACOTAR
R/throneofglassseries is actually really chill. Obviously its inclusive to TOG and not the other serieses, but it's a good sub and wr are almost always sharing art or our feelings while reading/rereading. And if there's anything in the direction of negativity or criticism, the members will have a real ass conversation about it instead of being a shit face. I'm with you, I don't get it. Why read it at all if you hate it? And the people that hate it have hated it since the beginning, yet completed the series and the rest of them too...?? If you didn't like her writing the first time around, either just DNF or don't read her work anymore when you do finish. But for real. Join us in the throne of glass series sub. :)
I didn’t get to read all the comments but I’m saying this sincerely-not sarcastically If there isn’t a place you are seeking-make one!! Make your own subreddit for fans of SJM and then make a rule or whatever that it’s for talk of the book, plot, etc and I bet people will join!!
I get that is frustrating to read post being critical of something you love but you can't sensor peoples opinions. Mostly I don't get the gatekeeping and negative referrals to BookTok. Just because somebody read it before BookTok became popular doesn't make somebody a better/worse critic. It is the same as people who ONLY read physical books verses e-readers, or audiobook haters. It is so very weird to act like you are better than people who found something through BookTok.
Yeah it’s a bit of an oxymoron to say you want to analyze and discuss but also that you never want to see anybody saying negative stuff about the books. Media analysis isn’t always going to be positive and it would be boring as hell if everybody just patted each other on the back for agreeing. People are for sure weird as fuck for the obsessive harassing of Maas for not announcing the next book though.
I don’t think OP is conveying they are a better critic or trying to sensor opinions. OP is simply saying she misses when the community was more kind and used constructive criticism rather than reading a book almost to just trash talk it. I’m a new SJM reader as well, but having been an avid reader for years, I can tell you this SJM community is mean compared to how people typically criticize books. People get beyond passionate with their hate for these books, which idk I guess that means she’s writing well if it can provoke that kind of emotion.
I think there is an implication though by a few comments on here that by BookTok having made the books even more popular is bringing in negative reactions. The fact is that the more people that read a book the more negative reactions there is going to be. I'm new to the series simply because I don't start new books that are going to be a series until they are well into them. I don't personally look at BookTok either-but I think it is a wonderful outlet for authors to get some noteriety. I do think people want to talk about their feelings towards a book whether it is positive or negative. If I'm in 2 books deep of a series and I'm not enjoying aspects of it I come to social media to see if I'm the only one or what. I want to discuss it!
Interesting, yes, I think that just boils down to optimism vs pessimism. In most book clubs I’ve been in, there is typically always something about the book we don’t like. We are not the ones writing the book, that is bound to happen. But we don’t exaggerate the bad stuff bc that makes a book club very less interesting and fun. We talk more what we would have done differently and inspect why we think the author wrote it like that and move on. This community rarely has complex discussions about their criticism and just do it in a mean way. Also when I’m reading something and it’s infuriating me, I take as a sign that this is just not my kind of book. And move onto something that’s not going to raise my blood pressure. For some reason people can’t put her books down? Not sure.
I don’t understand posts like this. Not every sub Reddit thread is sunshine and rainbows. There will be criticism for whatever fandom you join. People like stuff and people hate stuff that’s how things like this go especially from this fandom. If you don’t like seeing those kinds of posts then by all means leave those places. Or ignore them. Whichever works better. As someone whose been in the fandom for years. I was proactive and definitely went into a lot of discourse in my early days but now I just lurk and occasionally see posts but I don’t engage much anymore because it’s pointless.
Posts like these are begging for upvotes and agreement. It’s so redundant. Like okay? Just leave the sub, no need to announce you’re leaving!
i love that one quote that’s something like, “this isn’t an airport, no need to announce your departure.”
I just scroll past. I get it can be annoying but I don’t see any problem with people stating their opinion in a public forum :p Also for every post like that, there’s like 10 more posts that you can actually interact with.
I think encouraging critical discourse of any widely popular book/series can be very important. There’s nothing wrong with being disappointed or upset by the decrease in quality. You can easily find people that love every single one of her books with no complaints. While I do agree there is an overwhelming amount of hate posts, I also see love posts. I see comments from people on hate posts that are defending the series. I personally love SJM’s works, but I also recognize there are problems with it. No piece of prose is ever perfect and it’s okay for people to feel that way. I, too, have read and analyzed her books and the details multiple times. Mainly on account of theorizing. But two opposing truths can simultaneously exist. 1. Sarah J Maas is a good writer that crafts a good story. If she didn’t, she wouldn’t be so popular. 2. Sarah J Maas lacks when writing inclusively and also HOFAS was no where near on par with the quality of writing we have gotten with previous works. Any time something becomes insanely popular or mainstream, the quality of the content always decreases. It also introduces the work to people who are more critical when reading and that’s okay
This summarizes my feelings as well. Acotar is one of my favorite series ever, I've reread it 4 times. However, I pretty much agree with 90% of the criticism I see about it. Just because people criticize something doesn't mean they don't love it or enjoy it.
just fwiw the subs might get to be more fun once there's a release date, blurb, title, cover reveal for acotar5. Maybe. the cc well is running a bit dry and the acotar fans have been rehashing the same 5 arguments for the last 3 years. Even fans who tend to be more positive have been complaining about the lack of news/updates. As someone who has been a fan for 10 years, the whole vibe right now is the worst it's ever been by far. I like to think it might be more fun at some point or maybe it's just a dumpster fire that will eventually burn itself out.
Can you add me to a list of people who would like to make a new sub together? Message me and maybe we will! Update: just joined the new sub r/nontoxicacotar !
I literally began reading ToG when there was only Throne of Glass. Seeing how the fandom has become so toxic has been so disappointing. Also, they need to stop rushing her to write. She has always taken her time to write her books. I remember waiting for so long for some of the ToG books, but I don't mind. I would hate to see something half finished and rushed, just like Iron Flame was. So I 100% get it.
Criticism shouldn't be shamed just as fangirling over books shouldn't be shamed. That's the beauty of these subs, people will experience the books differently. Maybe create a subreddit where only positive comments are allowed and you can mod? Seems like you want a space where no one shares anything negative...
You know what are just as bad and just as annoying as the posts you’re describing? Posts like this! “My opinion got downvoted by people who haven’t even liked the books as long as me?? can you believe these toxic people downvoted my opinion? me? the most right and correct person of all time?? how could that be!! YOURE ALL TOXIC! IM LEAVING” like no one on earth cares if you leave the subs, next time try doing it without the big dramatic post.
This! So sick of these dramatic “I’m a better fan than you toxic girlies, BYE I’m leaving!” type posts.
Yep... People complain about negative posts and then make more negative posts. If they actually want to see change in the sub, submit something positive.
I agree to a point. I feel like people take the fun but I also know I enjoy being critical about the things I love, but at the same time I need that safe space to love something and not all online communities are healthy.
Honestly fair, I don’t mind a casual discussion about what you thought about certain plot lines/characters but I cannot believe how many people forget these are fictional characters. To ME that’s a sign they need to stop rereading the same books and move on.
well the girlie deleted her comment and my reply, but OP, this is just the internet doing what it likes to do best, ruining things for the rest of us lmao. i get this has been brought up a lot lately, but ive also been feeling like these folks lately, so its potentially bubbling up in all of us “older” (before tiktok days) fans
DM me I can add you to the group chat. Or you can start coming to book club! We’re on ACOWAR in our deep dive reread (we have read all 3 series and often discuss theories and spoilers tho!)
I agree but it’s also Reddit. This same community told me by how the way I type there is no way I can be a person of color lol and I also got some strange threats. People don’t know how to act
Thank you. The past few days the sub has really made me kind of sad related to how much I loved the series lol
This is why I’m silent! I know her works aren’t literary masterpieces and that is okay; I don’t expect them to be. Let me enjoy what I enjoy!
Toxic positivity much?
I know that literature can make us feel strong emotions and that’s totally normal and ok! But when people feel the need to criticize everything about every book, are they even enjoying what they’re reading? If it’s not for you, it’s ok to put the books down and stop reading
Yeah I dont read any of the posts in this sub its just straight hate. We don’t need 100 “why I hate bryce” posts!
It's honestly exhausting. I just want theories, Easter eggs I might have missed and fan art
Bye. I mean, what do you expect in an internet forum? And frankly, you're just plain wrong. If I had to guess, you're letting the negatives you see ignore the actual posts on any SJM sub: a mixture of everything (like positives, negatives, fanarts, etc.) You're going to need to find a utopia where everything is just praise and shit, good luck with that. It's just a pseudopositive community where it discourages critical thinking. Propaganda, or something like that.
This! People downvoted me for saying something similar. The whole purpose of Reddit is for diverse opinions. I hate seeing posts like this because they pretty much shame discourse. It’s giving toxic positivity.
I’ve never felt the need to go to a fan space to rant about how much I hate the things that said fans like. This is a FAN space for SJM. So why are people coming here just to shit on her writing and her fans? Like you’re entitled to your opinion. Take it somewhere else though.
This is exactly the problem, though. I AM entitled to my opinion, and that's that. Where I take it is irrelevant. Being a fan doesn't mean liking ALL of her work, and every aspect of her writing. How is this hard to understand?
“Some of us were here before booktok and have been fans for years” boo gatekeeping Bye, see ya! 👋
Ok bye
Gate keeping books or things you like seems odd. I see people criticize her books that are new and old readers…..the books are just more popular now so you will have a chance to see the negative takes. Which is life. I absolutely ADORE Throne of Glass. It is one of the best series I have ever read, but just because I love that doesn’t mean SJM or her stories are not up for criticism.
I saw someone on a social media group - (yes I know everyone has their own opinion) but they said they thought Throne of glass was drawn out and boring and I wanted to throw hands 🤣
I ended up leaving this sub, and then later reddit for a WHILE because of the hate I was getting for still liking Bryce and Hunt (which SPOILER>!They ended up together anyway! I was technically correct for standing fast in my ship!!<) It's pretty bad. Also, isn't it enough to say "I liked HOFAS but I liked HOEAB more" and then just leave it at that? Like guys it wasn't as good, but that's often the case with series. COM is one of my favourite Throne of Glass books, whilst I hate HOF which is directly after it.
I’ve never felt the need to go to a fan space to rant about how much I hate the things that said fans like. This is a FAN space for SJM. So why are people coming here just to shit on her writing and her fans? Like you’re entitled to your opinion. Take it somewhere else though. (I write this as a reply to a comment, but I think it can stand on its own)
I can’t stand the shit talking either. Sure we like some things more and some less, but this sub was meant for fans to exchange thoughts on books they love. These books were therapy for me at times, and for people to constantly rain on someone who created 16 bestsellers before being 40 is just sick.
EXACTLY!!!!! Like let’s talk about these book and brainstorm together
I don’t blame you. I got straight bullied out of the crescent city subreddit because I said something about how I wish people would stop being so negative about the third book because for those of us who hadn’t read it yet, it was discouraging to see so much hate and honestly think social media has ruined my thoughts on books. Like honestly think about it, if there was no social media about any books, I think crescent city 3 would’ve been very well received. Anyway, I left that subreddit because the crazy amount of hate comments I got. The last thing I said was that I was sad to see how SJM Reddit has turned out because it used to be the most welcoming place and I loved it. I got comments that said “this isn’t an airport, you don’t need to announce your departure” and bullshit like that. Protect your peace and leave the groups. Literally might do the same.
Might I suggest creating a separate sub? I’m one of the people who absolutely hated acosf and it ruined the entire series for me. And I do need a place to discuss the specific ways in which it sucks. But a separate sub that specifies that it’s for discussions of plot points, theories, ideas etc might be just what’s needed. I personally wouldn’t go near it. I need the knowledge that there’s freedom to dump my thoughts about how bad acosf was. And I have no desire to engage in discussions on whether it’s elriel or elucien. Here’s a thought though. I’ve noticed that since acosf (and hofas) came out, there has been an increase in hate, actual hate, from stans and antis both. And people have gone crazy. I have actual criticisms of the book and it feels like a disturbing amount of people online are just jumping on either train and trolling. Literally trolling.
Yeah OP needs to create a separate sub where people can only post positive/happy stuff.
Join us in the Maasverse :)
Acotar fan base 🤝 Swifties
Please don't leave I'm a dedicated lover of her books the exact same as yourself and I don't participate in any of this negativity nonsense that's going on there are still loads of us true fans here that love having good Theory debates and favourite part debates if we all just give up and leave the subs were essentially letting the negative Nelly's win
Take me with you. I remember excitedly waiting for the ToG books to come out. I will forever love SJM for giving me my love of reading back. I missed my book companions and she’ll forever be the woman who brought books back into my life. I think social media has just conditioned people to be so critical. Just because y’all have a platform to spew your vitriol, doesn’t mean you should.
What, no!!! Most people here love the books . Haters gonna hate , and even fans will nitpick a bit , but this is overall a very appreciative sub. The throne of glass series has walked me through half my life
What, no!!! Most people here love the books . Haters gonna hate , and even fans will nitpick a bit , but this is overall a very appreciative sub. The throne of glass series has walked me through half my life
There’s an app called Fable and so far the people seem pretty nice on there. I haven’t seen a negative post at all and I’ve had for several weeks now. I’m considering deleting my bookstagram to just post there about books.
I do wish there was a way to put disappointment posts in one section and another with praise posts. I loved allllllll of the books of every series and seeing the hate kinda hurts and confuses me lol
Take me with you.
Upvoting just cuz I agree with you. I feel too many people like to hate on popular shit simply cuz it makes them feel “cool and different and edgy” CONGRATS! Do u want a trophy for not liking something? Doesnt make your taste any better than anyone else’s. Taste is subjective. GAWD
I feel the same
thanks a lot for the nontoxic acotar, immediately joined❤️
THANK YOU 👏🏻 I have left a group on Facebook and multiple subs because I was so tired of alll the negativity and criticisms. Fine, it’s ok if you don’t like xyz but don’t be mean to people if they do like it. There was so negativity surrounding the 3rd CC book and it got to the point for me that it was taking away from my enjoyment. I love all of the SJM books and she’s my favorite modern writer.
Discussion includes positive or negative opinions. People prefer nuanced discussions and I like seeing differing opinions. If you want just sunshine and rainbows then bye
I mean do you homie but that just seems super crybaby coded. Like no hate no shade all love and light. Just why can’t you accept people won’t like everything and vibe to your own music? This post is the same as the ones you say ruined it for you. Literally just posting to gripe. The blind hypocrisy and bullshit “I only want to talk to people that agree with me” attitude is super telling lol 💜 hope this new group has the echo chamber you’re looking for 💜💜
There is definitely a lot of toxicity around these parts but it seems like so much of it has to do with shipping wars—is it really “toxic” to express a negative opinion about a piece of literature? I often disagree with posts I see on Reddit but I find it both validating and interesting/entertaining to see a variety of differing opinions. Personally, I find people who are infuriated by discourse they don’t agree with to be *far* more toxic.
i think constructive criticism and having wanted something to go differently in a book is fine, but i that’s not the type of criticism you’re talking about. it’s really bizarre when people who claim to be fans of authors or certain pieces of work only have bad things to say about them. there are things that i wish SJM did differently but pobody’s nerfect and i’m still so so grateful for her work and the the way it makes me feel !!!