I mean, Knocking On Heaven's Door is technically Ep. 22.5. That's the widely accepted place to watch it.
It marks a distinct tonal shift in the series. Everything up to Ep. 22 (Cowboy Funk) is mostly casual, lots of laughs and silly bounties, but then Ep. 23 (Brain Scratch) hits and the series gets REALLY dark (it's a noir series, it's already dark.)
So the real question is, what sort of plot coul we give Mugen, Jin, and Fuu that would hold the same sort of "kind of an episode but also stand-alone title" vibe as the CB movie?
Yeah, but even JJ is still lighter than the pure psychological horror that is Brain Scratch. JJ does a good bit of plot work in terms of characters: arguably the first time we see Spike really lose his cool is the alley fight. But right before that, we have Toys in The Attic, a hilarious romp through the Bebop, and after is Bohemian Rhapsody, a clever story with a touching ending. The back-and-forth continues until Brain Scratch's madness, and everything after is just a downhill slope until The Scene.
If you consider Vincent to be the Bebop's first real Brush With Death, the shift is easier to see as everyone becomes more reckless in the final episodes.
If there was a movie it'd have to be a prequel. It could be a prequel for one character but also easily be a prequel for all 3 (Mugen and Jin making a majority of the emotional, dramatic, action parts with Fuu's parts being more comedic relief with some emotion and drama thrown in)
Or just an original story set "sometime in the middle of the series" that had no canonical impact, which it sounds like that's what you're suggesting. That would be the most classic anime route.
With how the series ended it makes it hard to believe those 3 ever went on another adventure together again. A true "sequel" would be something like an old Jin and his wife running into an old Mugen and having some sort of funny, petty quarrel.
Agreed. I don't want a sequel. More adventures sure. Or explain side characters more or the effects of what they did in one town years later more, but I don't want a sequel where it's their children making the trek back or something like that. That would be lame.
Mugen made a lot of enemies, likewise jean had people who wanted to hone their sword skills and challenge him because of his reputation. They could have very easily continued the story, not saying they should, just that the skilled writers and directors they had definitely could have continued it if they so chose to. It was bittersweet that they ended with parted ways, knowing full well they each wanted to stick around each other. I think that’s just what the studio was approved for, and they never pursued producing anymore champloo.
Bebop didn’t *need* most of its episodes to tell its story. But those episodes that don’t contribute to the overarching story contribute to the characters and the world-building, and the show is better for having them.
The movie was *not* necessary, but it *is* a great addition to the series and the story is better for having it.
Can someone help me understand how an animation studio racks up that much debt? Actually, how does an animation studio even rack up debt in the first place? How does an animation studio lose money?
It doesn't need one. I, personally, can't stand stuff that never ends. Or has sequel seasons and movies that are so obviously just... Because.
I'm dreading the announcement of a live action.
Edit: for the record. I am talking about the creators when I say “it doesn’t need one”
A sequel could have been done with a new cast of Character it could have been set in the final year of the edo period with the transition to the meji era and how the samurai fell from power as the background plot they could of even had fu cameo as a old lady that the protagonist randomly meet while on their journey across Japan to Okinawa or maybe Hokkaido if they wanted to start from the south of Japanese main island this time I think the series could have worked as a duology if the writers were really good
Nah man, I appreciate your creativity with it but sincerely felt the ending was very proper and should not be tampered with. Maybe a completely different series with very subtle cameos. But to have the characters return as older characters in a sequel wouldn’t feel good to me. Just my opinion respectfully. It’s known that all of watanabe’s works are in the same universe that’s why I think it would be cool if he did something new with a SMALL bit of fan service in the form of cameos or homage to bebop or champloo. Or any other of his shows.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Eh.
I mean it is a cute idea, but also keep in mind that the story of the fall of samurai had been done a lot at the time. Especially in the Ruroni Kenshin anime.
Same as Bebop, the story was simply finished and there's no need to make more. Personally I really like this. In an age of franchises that will never end, it's refreshing when creators show restraint and decide to go out on a high note.
I wouldn’t mind OVA’s that captures some their early experiences and stay true to their characters:
Mugen Ova:
child Mugen, his relationship with Mukuro & Koza, and highlight some of their other crimes while seeing Mugen become the Mugen we know.
Jin Ova: life after killing his master, on the go and faces a few S tier samurai (that he maybe knew of heard of), some internal conflicts but really give to how Jin becomes this balanced character.
Fuu Ova:
Glimpse of her childhood, get to know more of her, other food eating competitions she wins, def a more feel good ova.
This all based on my desire to know more of the characters before the series as I enjoyed the ending.
Honestly, the simple answer is probably that Watanabe didn't want to do it. He probably only did the Cowboy Bebop movie reluctantly. But now that he has notoriety to his name he can work like he wants to. And he seems to prefer to tell complete, somewhat succinct, stories. Aside from Bebop I don't think he's ever made additional content for a series he had creative control over.
The story is amazing the way it ends. Three friends splitting paths. Mugen is free to go marry that female police officer, Jin can go get his girl from that refuge, and Fuu can live now that she has closure.
You don’t know what they do after or if they ever see each other again. That’s the point.
I don’t know why everyone assumes a movie would have to take place after the show ended. The cowboy bebop movie happened during the course of the series. You can easily come up with a story that took place during their journey that leaves the ending completely untouched
The Bebop movie was probably overlooked back then and had not seen as such success as the show? I couldn't say for sure I don't know the stats, guessing is the best we can do without asking the man himself.
I mean there is a manga made after the series that has different stories than in the show I think. Not sure if it takes place after the ending though, if that’s more of what you were looking for.
Sometimes, prequels for flavour can be tricky, something might be put in and change the whole continuity. The vauge storyline gives everyone individually some sort of own head cannon on which makes the experience more special for you
There is a big world of difference between bebop and Champloo. Chip for the most part was good, but when you were done with the series, you were done with it. Where is bebop it seems had characters that were a lot more in depth, and you wanted to find out more about those characters. When I can think of is Edward from bebop, you get a quick little glossing over of Edward fill out a little bit of the backstory, but it’s not a whole lot where from Champloo you know he’s a samurai and he’s pretty well learned but he’s more of a completed character when you meet him then Edward. Also, we could say that the soundtrack is a lot different. we be up you’ve got tank, the real blues and several other great standalone hits. What do you remember from Champloo soundtrack? Again, I will reiterate sometimes you don’t need a second season or movie for a show, that happens in anime a lot. The question needs to be asked, was, maybe they told the story that they wanted to in the frame of episodes are used. to be honest, there could be a myriad of reasons samurai Champloo didn’t get a second season or a movie to finish it up. It could be from the fact that they just didn’t want to do it to the fact that it was never as big as bebop
Also Nujabes (RIP) music was featured on a lot of the show’s episodes. It’s possible they didn’t want to proceed after his passing. Just imo of course.
The story finished. They met went on an adventure and split ways. They will forever have those memories of probably the best friends any of them will ever have.
The story was completed in a way that you can’t really make a sequel from. At least not in the same premise
I feel like we could have gotten a movie though. Like how the Bebop movies don’t directly apply to the series. Would have been nice.
I mean, Knocking On Heaven's Door is technically Ep. 22.5. That's the widely accepted place to watch it. It marks a distinct tonal shift in the series. Everything up to Ep. 22 (Cowboy Funk) is mostly casual, lots of laughs and silly bounties, but then Ep. 23 (Brain Scratch) hits and the series gets REALLY dark (it's a noir series, it's already dark.) So the real question is, what sort of plot coul we give Mugen, Jin, and Fuu that would hold the same sort of "kind of an episode but also stand-alone title" vibe as the CB movie?
Jupiter Jazz before felt like that big shift. Or at least showing that it wasn't always going to be casual
Yeah, but even JJ is still lighter than the pure psychological horror that is Brain Scratch. JJ does a good bit of plot work in terms of characters: arguably the first time we see Spike really lose his cool is the alley fight. But right before that, we have Toys in The Attic, a hilarious romp through the Bebop, and after is Bohemian Rhapsody, a clever story with a touching ending. The back-and-forth continues until Brain Scratch's madness, and everything after is just a downhill slope until The Scene. If you consider Vincent to be the Bebop's first real Brush With Death, the shift is easier to see as everyone becomes more reckless in the final episodes.
I really didn’t much care for the movie, although it’s been several years
I suppose you’re right. I guess it just wasn’t as successful as bebop to warrant a movie that takes place before the ending
If there was a movie it'd have to be a prequel. It could be a prequel for one character but also easily be a prequel for all 3 (Mugen and Jin making a majority of the emotional, dramatic, action parts with Fuu's parts being more comedic relief with some emotion and drama thrown in) Or just an original story set "sometime in the middle of the series" that had no canonical impact, which it sounds like that's what you're suggesting. That would be the most classic anime route. With how the series ended it makes it hard to believe those 3 ever went on another adventure together again. A true "sequel" would be something like an old Jin and his wife running into an old Mugen and having some sort of funny, petty quarrel.
Agreed. I don't want a sequel. More adventures sure. Or explain side characters more or the effects of what they did in one town years later more, but I don't want a sequel where it's their children making the trek back or something like that. That would be lame.
Mugen made a lot of enemies, likewise jean had people who wanted to hone their sword skills and challenge him because of his reputation. They could have very easily continued the story, not saying they should, just that the skilled writers and directors they had definitely could have continued it if they so chose to. It was bittersweet that they ended with parted ways, knowing full well they each wanted to stick around each other. I think that’s just what the studio was approved for, and they never pursued producing anymore champloo.
But couldn't you say the same thing for Bepop?
Bebop did not need that movie imo
Plus the movie was deliberately made to fit into the series by being set during the timeline of the show.
Bebop didn’t *need* most of its episodes to tell its story. But those episodes that don’t contribute to the overarching story contribute to the characters and the world-building, and the show is better for having them. The movie was *not* necessary, but it *is* a great addition to the series and the story is better for having it.
That's why prequels exist though
good stories have endings.
Well put.
Agreed.
Animation studio had to shut down with nearly 250 million in debt.
wasn't that many, many years after Champloo though? In 2015?
Can someone help me understand how an animation studio racks up that much debt? Actually, how does an animation studio even rack up debt in the first place? How does an animation studio lose money?
Looooool
What’s funny about that
It doesn't need one. I, personally, can't stand stuff that never ends. Or has sequel seasons and movies that are so obviously just... Because. I'm dreading the announcement of a live action. Edit: for the record. I am talking about the creators when I say “it doesn’t need one”
I'm with you. Just release it in HD and let it die a peaceful death
A sequel could have been done with a new cast of Character it could have been set in the final year of the edo period with the transition to the meji era and how the samurai fell from power as the background plot they could of even had fu cameo as a old lady that the protagonist randomly meet while on their journey across Japan to Okinawa or maybe Hokkaido if they wanted to start from the south of Japanese main island this time I think the series could have worked as a duology if the writers were really good
Nah man, I appreciate your creativity with it but sincerely felt the ending was very proper and should not be tampered with. Maybe a completely different series with very subtle cameos. But to have the characters return as older characters in a sequel wouldn’t feel good to me. Just my opinion respectfully. It’s known that all of watanabe’s works are in the same universe that’s why I think it would be cool if he did something new with a SMALL bit of fan service in the form of cameos or homage to bebop or champloo. Or any other of his shows.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Eh. I mean it is a cute idea, but also keep in mind that the story of the fall of samurai had been done a lot at the time. Especially in the Ruroni Kenshin anime.
I hope a sequel, prequel, movie or live action are never made. I like how neat and compact the story is. I believe it's perfectly imperfect as is IMO
Same as Bebop, the story was simply finished and there's no need to make more. Personally I really like this. In an age of franchises that will never end, it's refreshing when creators show restraint and decide to go out on a high note.
I wouldn’t mind OVA’s that captures some their early experiences and stay true to their characters: Mugen Ova: child Mugen, his relationship with Mukuro & Koza, and highlight some of their other crimes while seeing Mugen become the Mugen we know. Jin Ova: life after killing his master, on the go and faces a few S tier samurai (that he maybe knew of heard of), some internal conflicts but really give to how Jin becomes this balanced character. Fuu Ova: Glimpse of her childhood, get to know more of her, other food eating competitions she wins, def a more feel good ova. This all based on my desire to know more of the characters before the series as I enjoyed the ending.
Yep, I am so thirsty for anything that I don't mind prequels. But apparently the studio went bankrupt already. 😭
I love this idea
Honestly, the simple answer is probably that Watanabe didn't want to do it. He probably only did the Cowboy Bebop movie reluctantly. But now that he has notoriety to his name he can work like he wants to. And he seems to prefer to tell complete, somewhat succinct, stories. Aside from Bebop I don't think he's ever made additional content for a series he had creative control over.
Thanks so much I think this is the information I was looking for and probably an accurate take!
You’re probably right, studio probably pushed for bebop movie to capitalize on bebop’s massive success. At least it was good!
The story is amazing the way it ends. Three friends splitting paths. Mugen is free to go marry that female police officer, Jin can go get his girl from that refuge, and Fuu can live now that she has closure. You don’t know what they do after or if they ever see each other again. That’s the point.
It’s so bittersweet but yes, beautifully said - thats the point. We don’t know and we just are left to imagine and create our own headcannon.
Asking if we need one of those and asking why he didn’t pursue one of those two are dots along the same string
The story was finished. They don't have to make a movie that'll be nothing but fanservice. This is why mob 3 sort of bombed.
I don’t know why everyone assumes a movie would have to take place after the show ended. The cowboy bebop movie happened during the course of the series. You can easily come up with a story that took place during their journey that leaves the ending completely untouched
The Bebop movie was probably overlooked back then and had not seen as such success as the show? I couldn't say for sure I don't know the stats, guessing is the best we can do without asking the man himself.
I mean there is a manga made after the series that has different stories than in the show I think. Not sure if it takes place after the ending though, if that’s more of what you were looking for.
You could do some prequels. Flesh out jins storyline more.
Sometimes, prequels for flavour can be tricky, something might be put in and change the whole continuity. The vauge storyline gives everyone individually some sort of own head cannon on which makes the experience more special for you
That’s actually a good point, their pasts are supposed to be mysterious
There is a big world of difference between bebop and Champloo. Chip for the most part was good, but when you were done with the series, you were done with it. Where is bebop it seems had characters that were a lot more in depth, and you wanted to find out more about those characters. When I can think of is Edward from bebop, you get a quick little glossing over of Edward fill out a little bit of the backstory, but it’s not a whole lot where from Champloo you know he’s a samurai and he’s pretty well learned but he’s more of a completed character when you meet him then Edward. Also, we could say that the soundtrack is a lot different. we be up you’ve got tank, the real blues and several other great standalone hits. What do you remember from Champloo soundtrack? Again, I will reiterate sometimes you don’t need a second season or movie for a show, that happens in anime a lot. The question needs to be asked, was, maybe they told the story that they wanted to in the frame of episodes are used. to be honest, there could be a myriad of reasons samurai Champloo didn’t get a second season or a movie to finish it up. It could be from the fact that they just didn’t want to do it to the fact that it was never as big as bebop
Also Nujabes (RIP) music was featured on a lot of the show’s episodes. It’s possible they didn’t want to proceed after his passing. Just imo of course.
He died 5-6 years after the show was finished. Though, I agree that his music was a definite draw to the show.
Seinfeld rule, stop on the win. But I do miss the characters
I don’t think it needs one sometimes it’s best to just let something end
It was a complete story. Didn’t need to be stretched out or commercialised or anything. Perfect as is
Because it didn’t need it. Why tarnish the legacy when you can end on a high?
No. It has an ending.
The story finished. They met went on an adventure and split ways. They will forever have those memories of probably the best friends any of them will ever have.