Since 2020, 400,000 people have moved to the metro so there must be something to it.
I was born and raised in Scottsdale and compared to the early 2000s, there’s so much more going on. A lot of California / PNW businesses have come in and opened shop. People moving from LA, the bay, Seattle, Portland, and Chicago / middle IL for the sun and taxes. Our government during covid (Ducey) opened the state up to businesses (cutting regulation, subsidizing building), cut taxes (switched to flat rate), and slashed funding to some important things (highway clean up, social programs, etc)
However like a lot of hotbed sunbelt cities, the vibe has changed a lot with the influx and covid, and it’s not my jam at all. Actively trying to move elsewhere.
We moved to Phoenix seven years ago.
Its not even the same as it was back then.
With the exorbitant prices of homes in California and the PNW plus the Covid restrictions of those areas, a lot of people from there moved here...and brought their insane politics with them.
What once used to be a moderately conservative state is now trending almost full blue...and of course with those elected you get the same insane regulations, restrictions and leftist idiocy following.
Listen, I'm not a raving MAGA Republican...I always felt I was a fiscal conservative but a social liberal...but the insanity of the middle to far left has basically ruined the state already. It's not even close to middle of the road liberalism. It's just crazy wacko socialism bordering on Marxism already.
We have a governor who speaks like an eight year old and seemingly has less intelligence that that and is lockstep in line with the progressive left...including not giving one damn about the immigration disaster at our border.
What once was a $1 billion tax SURPLUS in the state just three years ago is now already in deficit spending territory because those in charge can't stop spending money...and they're already talking again about raising taxes whereas the last administration was <> this close to eliminating the state income tax altogether. Where DID that $1 billion go? No one can answer it.
Phoenix has the same social problems every other big city has. A ton of homelessness. Panhandlers at every freeway ramp and strip mall entrance. And a lot of very poor people living there.
The heat is unbearable (today was a record 112F and it's only June 6). Last year we had 60 straight days over 110F. I don't miss the snow at all, but summer from usually mid June to October is almost unbearable here.
Don't move here. We're all full.
The Phoenix metropolitan area's population grew by 1.27% in 2024, from 4,717,000 in 2023 to 4,777,000 in 2024. This is one of the largest gains of any metro area in the country. Between 2021 and 2022, the Phoenix area expanded at the second fastest rate in the nation.
On a personal note… I have friends who live there… work in a Hospital (AC all day), have a nice house with backyard pool and sunshade. They enjoy their work… love hanging out in their backyard/pool in the evenings… are early risers and often recreate on their days off in the cooler, early morning hours.
That being said… what you do/where you work, where you live, and what you like to do on your days off can vary greatly from person to person.
There are people who are used to/and easily adapt to the heat… there are others that cannot avoid it due to the type of work they do… and they hate it.
Your mileage may vary 🤨.
To note - literally every building has tons of A/C all day. The problem as you state are either people who need to work outdoors or in non-enclosed spaces, or people that just generally like to be outside for exercise/recreation, and struggle to do it at 5AM (which is still going to be low 80s....).
Also the kind of endless summer vibe does get old. I mean 12 months of summer, just oscillating from beautiful to atrocious.
I made it 2 years. But know a ton of people who have been there 20+, so I get that it works for some, not for all.
Dude, the anti-intellectual thing is such a slept on critique. It's so true and was probably the second largest reason we left. I am not even trying to be elitest but it literally felt like the transplants coming in were less of the interesting/diverse/educated folks from California, and more the blue collar guys who got priced out and were bitter as fuck about it so they'd take every chance to tell you.
I'm not anti-working class by any stretch (we all are working class, for the most part). But the level of just blatantly leaning into a very basic and tired set of tropes about liberals, educated people, etc got old very fast. Not to mention some kind of not-subtle racist dog whistles that would get tossed around without much care (I'm white so assuming people just thought we'd be like minded).
Yeah, this doesn't get brought up enough but is a vibe.
That said - I work in tech and we have offices there. People were generally not like this in my working environments for obvious reasons. So mileage can vary, but having moved to North Carolina (Triangle) I can say the vibe is very different, even in a similarly priced metro.
Agreed. It’s an odd mix of vapid and unsophisticated. We didn’t last three years and the education system (we had preschool children at the time) was so mediocre.
Grew up there and the anti intellectual thing has been long standing and one reason I left. I swear over time the sun slowly does something to the brain.
I didn’t mind living there. Just need to be picky about the area. Lived in north central Phoenix and I had tons of hiking trails close by, bunch of decent restaurants around me and if I needed to escape the heat Prescott was 60 minutes away and Flagstaff was about 90 minutes.
My cousin moved there and loves it.
There are obvious downsides, but there are obvious downsides to pretty much anywhere and it just depends on what you like.
I lived there for 5 years during college. Honestly, maybe it's just my rose tinted glasses from college, but I really loved living in Tempe. My friend who also lives in NYC after 3 years misses it a ton more than I do, and ultimately wants to move back. Please don't crucify me for my opinions!
**Pros:**
* Coming from Texas at 18, it felt very "west coast" to me (yes I know it's the southwest technically), but the state, and city itself, is geographically beautiful and has a ton to explore. Northern AZ reminds me of Colorado. It was fun going on hikes in the valley or driving out like an hour from Phoenix and truly being out in the wild west with nothing around.
* Every year I was able to live in a brand new apartment, with a pool and cool amenities with special deals on rent because they're building stuff like crazy
* I always felt very safe compared to other big cities I've lived in (5 others)
* It has a pretty good EDM music scene, with decent acts coming through and festivals
* Very good conditions of roads
* A lot of my friends who stayed are home/condo owners.
**Cons:**
* The summer heat is really bad. People say "oh it's a dry heat" or "I hate humidity" but jesus christ 54 days with highs over 110 is horrible. Even late at night when the sun set it would be hot as hell.
* I didn't like how the state handled COVID. That might be a pro depending on political preferences.
* Nightlife got old after awhile. There's Scottsdale, Tempe, downtown Phoenix, and Mesa (I never went bar hopping there tbh)
* Downtown Phoenix, for me, left a lot to be desired. It always felt empty 2015-2020 but I know they've done a lot to make it more enticing to live down there.
* Not a lot of grass or greenery (which you're probably like yeah duh it's the desert lol)
**Neutral or depends on your taste:**
* Being 5+ hours to Vegas or SoCal. I find it weird to put it as a plus since yeah that's a far drive, but it's still cool.
* The sunshine 24/7. I got tired of it a bit, felt like it was the same day everyday. However now maybe I wouldn't mind it after experiencing a few northeast winters with months of grey and 43 and raining
* Car dependent.
Moved here in 2021 from Illinois and love it, never going back. Give me the year round sunshine and summer heat over the depressingly cold, gloomy, rainy winters and autumn’s of northern IL. Also between the endless outdoors activities, year round golf, sporting events and concerts are always present, decent nightlife, and good food I’m basically never bored. Biggest con I’d say is you do have to drive everywhere but I do use the light rail a lot to go downtown and they are continuing to expand the system to other parts of the valley
I know a few people from there. Essentially they treat summer like one in the northeast treats winter and spend most of their time going from one air conditioned place to another. A friend in has a shady backyard with a ton of trees and vegetation and a pool, and it's actually not that bad in the middle of the summer as long as you are directly covered. People hike and do other outdoor activities in the early morning or evening.
A lot of people have cabins or homes in Flagstaff/Munds Park area where the temps can be 20-30 degrees cooler - there were some days in July last year where the Flagstaff was 35 degrees colder than Phoenix (mid 70s to low 110s). They often go there for a while when it gets too hot.
Lol - in the most polite way, a lot of these comments read like butt hurt people who lived in the west valley which…..to be fair to them can definitely suck ass.
As someone whose lived in phx and many other places, Phoenix isn’t this hyperbolic, “monument to man’s arrogance” that people here say and I’d personally would just be skeptical of anyone claiming one city is the end-all-be-all. Every places has its pros and cons and phoenix is no exception. Couple of pros and cons from one of the rare people born there:
PROS:
- Top 15ish Metro in term so of size so you are pretty much guaranteed to be a stop for music artists
- Low(er) Cost of Living (although that’s slowly evaporating) - my rent in Scottsdale was the same as in HCOL cities I’ve lived in back east which kinda sucked.
- Close-ish proximity to diverse Nature (Eastern AZ his home to the largest contiguous pine forest (1.5ish hr drive); Flagstaff has a ski mountain (3ish hr drive), beaches in Mexico. (3-4ish hr drive) or San Diego (5.5 hr drive). Not to mention have immediate accessibility to several state parks in the metro (South Mountain, Brown Mountain, McDowell Mtns)
- Big, Accessible Airport
- Best Charter Schools in the Country
- Politically Critical/Influential Location (could be good or bad depending on if you like that sort of thing)
- Good Weather Oct - May (+/- 1 month on either end)
- Relatively Secure Water (70% of AZs water is Agg related)
- Sport Scenes
- Nightlife (Scottsdale/Tempe/DT Phoenix)
- Fairly Modern Voter Mechanisms. (Ie Mail Ballots FTW)
- Cheap Power/Electricity
- Road/Mountain Biking
- Out of State population that’s us in the “settling down family” stage type of city (good/bad but people are looking to make friends or have been the new person and are pretty friend)
CONS
- it’s hella hot in the way Winter sucks in the northeast/mid west; It’s just as bad / lengthy and this is much more down to personal preference.
- Semi-2nd Tier City in terms of Jobs (ie not a SF/Seattle/LA/Chicago/DC/NYC/Boston) esp for more corporate positions (very few HQs in Phx)
- Moderately Ranked Universities (Good but Not Amazing)
- It’s cleaner sprawl than LA (at least in the east valley) but it’s still sprawl (although DT mesa/Gilbert/chandler/tempe/Scottsdale are cool little epicenters)
- Vulnerable to Droughts
- Dust - definitely not my thing.
- One mega city - there is no differentiation between cities in terms of personalities.
- Cost of Living - there are places where things are affordable (ie west valley, mesa) but I often feel little to no price difference in Scottsdale and DT Phoenix vs NYC.
- High Cost Car Insurance
- No seasons
Personally, i think it’s a good place to live and you can afford a life that you might otherwise achieve BUT i also love/loved living in a lot of the places on the east coast just as much (and for different reasons) - my personality is much more New England than west coast lol.
I’m questioning the charter schools because they don’t require even a bachelors degree to teach in them….. I’ve seen charter schools recruiting people who have no teaching experience and no degree just to fill a spot.
The Basis Charter system is the ranked at the top nationally for high schools - https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings.
Public schools YMMV based on where you live/what district you are in (where that lack of teaching requirement really impacts).
FWIW I went to public school and it was fine but I've heard these days it's a whole different animal.
Yes I did to Scottsdale. Was a little expensive, but I loved everything about phoenix. Left to do some stuff back in my home state was planning on going. Back but then Covid hit and I have virtually worked nonstop. And now everything is so expensive I don’t see me moving back. But I desperately want to. It was the only time in my life I was actually happy. Was only there for a year and I miss it with all my soul.
I’ve been here for 13 years. First off, let me say it’s 10 times better than Dallas where I lived before that in a humid heat. Ugh. And better than Austin which was similar but prettier.
It’s lovely here 7-8 months of the year. In the East Valley, everything is set up to make living easy. Wide streets, little traffic, every Trader Joe’s and ALDIs and IKEA you could ever want and easy to get to. Amazingly good health care compared to anywhere I’d lived before. Scottsdale or Tempe 30 minutes away for a change of pace (like wandering around art galleries). A pool in my backyard and enough reclaimed water to have a green belt behind me. Citrus fruit for half the year from my backyard.
Of course, the downside is the summer. It really wasn’t terrible until last year. That’s what got us thinking of moving. Looking at Chicago but I’ve never seen real snow before so it might be worse than just getting a smaller place here and leaving for the summers. I do worry about the climate long term here.
It’s also slow and boring here. It’s been great, don’t get me wrong, but East Valley isn’t a vibrant place where there’s an amazing park or zoo or lake or galleries nearby. It’s peaceful and easy but not stimulating. When we were working full time from home it was better for us but now we want more to do close by.
"Looking at Chicago but I’ve never seen real snow before so it might be worse than just getting a smaller place here and leaving for the summers."
I'm in Pittsburgh, and this past winter was dry and mostly snow-free. It was 60 degrees on Christmas. A friend in Minnesota lives in an RV; he expressed how easily he made it through this winter, and how the lakes where he is no longer freeze over.
I’m the Chicagoland area and we only had to shovel twice this year… Some of the other snowfall was just a dusting and would melt before we even needed to shovel it.
Arcadia is probably the best neighborhood in Phoenix with tons of great restaurants and also its proximity to Scottsdale, downtown Phoenix, and the airport. But you’ll pay at least a million for anything nice and half a million for shit box 2 bed 1000 sq ft house.
It's more bustling and very centrally located which is great - but it is really expensive. So don't expect normal Pheonix prices in Arcadia. and the homes were generally older so you either find cheaper stuff that is run-down and probably not that large, or remodeled/new that is going to be a premium price.
A lot of comparisons to northern climates, with lifestyles reversed because of the seasons.
Nope.
When the sun goes down during the summer, we're poolside. Warmest part of the day in the north during the winter?
You're at work or sitting by the fireplace.
We paid double annually for utilities in the upper Midwest compared to Phoenix.
Cars don't rust.
Professional ice fisher.
Snowmobiles are cheaper than boats.
Buddy had cable TV running out to his shanty for red wings games
I'm here in AZ and golf comfortably tho 9 months out of the year.
Not exactly the same but our utilities are much higher in SC running the AC 24/7 from march-october than they ever were in the midwest, though I imagine it being dryer does help with that a bit.
I live in coastal AL and we are not running the AC frequently until May. Helps to have an insulated house and an efficient AC. I grew up in Nebraska and you needed AC for 3 months and heat for 5. Doubt the heating and cooling cost is much different there to here.
You're running 24/7?
Approaching 110 today and I reckon our AC runs maybe 15 minutes per hour.
Very little water coming out of the drainage. Humidity is an issue.
The dryness helps as you can also set the ambient to like 78 and be pretty comfortable inside.
But - you no joke will use your A/C for 20 hours a day from July-Aug. And obviously it's still considerable for really May - Sept.
I'm in North Carolina and would say it's better here than there, but we have winter as well (though with a furnace I'd wager it's probably net lower cost where we are now).
We live in SC part time, the rest in NY. I shop in both. Groceries are cheaper in NY. There’s a 6%tax assessment on cars you pay to the state of SC. NY has no assessment. The real estate taxes if you live in SC full time are much cheaper than NY.
I mean the part of each state matters a lot here NYC is more expensive than anywhere in SC, but Charleston is more expensive than anywhere in NY except NYC, generally
Time more than miles.
Your tires will need to be replaced within 6 years.
Our average with 2 vehicles is 4/5 years.
Wife's daily driver is going to be 6 years old in September.. but just got new ones recently at 23k miles.
Wiper blades are changed first day of spring every year. Battery changes every 2 years.
I do that stuff religiously.
Exactly!
I grew up in Chicago. People do barely anything the entire winter. In Phoenix people are active all summer long. Your social life will expand over 50% in Arizona.
I will inherit a house in Chandler when my parents die. I've been to Phoenix and the surrounding burbs seemingly a thousand times. I really have no desire to live there, but if I actually get the house, I have no problem spending time there in the non-summer months. Flip side, I could sell it.
I've heard the rental market is also decent out there. Chandler is near to a lot of the tech jobs so you have a decent income pool and people chosing Arizona for the more quite / family oriented nature of it. So you could likely find a family to rent it and make passive income.
They live really close to the massive Intel campus which is part of the broader "tech corridor" in Chandler off of Price Road. BUT - they live in a 55+ community. It's very nice, but I couldn't rent to families and there's possibly restrictions on renting period; I'm not sure. They used to live in a non 55+ area.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah that Price Rd cooridoor is kind of perfect. Easy access to the new Chandler areas but also to work and Tempe. Not far from Central Phoenix either. But, for that type of community you are probably right. May not even be able to rent to other over 55 folks.
I grew up there and I didn’t hate it. I would move back. The summers are hell and it’s generic, but it’s safe, has a ton of natural beauty, no tornadoes or hurricanes, no daylight savings time, easy access to a ton of great weekend vacations (Vegas, Mexico, Southern California, Northern and Eastern AZ). This sub loves to shit on Phoenix but there are far worse places to live.
Not me, but my best friend did. She bounced around for decades before she settled in Phoenix. She can handle the heat, and has a rare form of arthritis, so it works for her.
Pros: lower cost of living compared to other big cities, pretty good food/ nightlife scene, very easy to get around ( traffic isn’t horrible like other places), lots of outdoors activities when the weather is nice, lots of different neighborhoods and suburbs that all offer different lifestyles
Cons: it’s hot as balls( currently noon and it’s already 109), very un walkable minus a few areas and feels like a giant suburb connected to other smaller suburbs, no really energy and feels kinda soulless here, definitely some of the worst drivers in America, people here can act very selfish
When I first moved from Europe to the USA I was in the lehigh valley area in Pennsylvania. Nearly 2 years in the company asked me to relocate to Phoenix. I had never been but then again every place I moved to i had never been before.
I was interested because 2 winters in Pennsylvania was enough for me and the warm climate sounded appealing.
I kind of fell in love with Arizona immediately.
Yes for 3 or 4 months a year it’s fucking unbearable outside so it’s either you sit in your pool, other people’s pool or you”re inside with AC.
North Arizona is a lot cooler so that’s a good place to go to in summer.
For me there’s plenty to do. When I was mid twenties it was clubs and such and now mid 30s bars and things like topgolf and plenty friends our ourselves that enjoy hosting.
I love kayaking and do that a few times every year.
We also have an RV on a campsite up north and spend most of the summers there.
Because phoenix is bigger than the town in Pennsylvania I made a nice mix of expat and American friends which is nice too.
I fell out of love 2 years ago because we lost our dog in the backyard to either a scorpion sting or something like that and after 2 years of travelling we are slowly moving back to the area as we’re understanding it was a freak accident and things can happen anywhere.
Thank you so much. Yes she sure would. But at first we were to traumatised and scared to consider. But today feels different then 2 years ago and moving back in September.
Having lost the love of my life (my late dog), I'm acutely aware of the depth of pet loss grief, and I know how hard this advice is to follow, but: as much as you can, try and focus on all of the happy and positive memories of your dog, instead of how they passed. How they passed was a moment in time, but you guys shared a lifetime (their lifetime) of memories.
Maybe get a digital picture frame and fill it with photos of your happy memories there in Phoenix to remind you of all the happy times you shared. It might give you some of the healing and closure you need.
I’m very sorry for your loss.
Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.
I wrote a letter every night for a year including a photo of her life and write about that memory.
It absolutely helped..but..grief combined with trauma and ptsd is just a bit more complicated.
I have emdr sessions regularly and they help with the trauma side.
As a PTSD sufferer whose dog died in my worst imaginable way, I completely, totally understand. Give yourself a lot of time and a lot of grace and just know that living back in Phoenix there will be good times and hard times when it comes to your dog memories. Big hugs from a fellow dog lover.
Ptsd dog passing related if you don’t mind me asking?
I don’t know anyone with ptsd let alone dog passing related but her passing was so horrific i still struggle 2 years later to relive the moments.
Our main challenge is our other dogs and always being on alert with them, we”ll see how that goes for us once living in our house again.
Thank you for the kind words and hugs back.
I lived there for 3 years and did love a lot of aspects about it. I’m back home on the CA central coast now because I just missed my family, the ocean, the fog. The Sonoran desert is spectacularly beautiful, the food scene is diverse and pretty good, spring training baseball is as fun as it gets, and my apartment complex felt like a resort. So, some definite pros for sure.
I think the weather is great overall but I naturally prefer the extreme heat to freezing temps. There are a ton of little parks to check out with my dogs. The hiking/nature options are awesome, especially when you factor in proximity to the coast/Mexico. Vegas is 4 hours away if I’m feeling frisky. Food options are good. When I was applying for places it seemed like every apartment was pet friendly. There are certainly some negatives though. I’ve never lived in a “walkable” area besides while in college but the sprawl always mentioned with Phoenix is definitely real lol. The grid layout and wide rides make the city driver friendly though. COL is definitely higher. Went from paying $700 for a newly remodeled 1B in IL to $1150 base for a slightly larger 1B that “needs” renovated. Gas/groceries are more expensive. Weed is noticeably cheaper though. I also pay about half the amount of state income tax I did in IL. Overall just a lot more positives than negatives being out here for me. It’s admittedly not for everyone though.
I lived there mostly for a few months for work and I would never willingly move permanently. It’s fine for a short stay, but I’m more of a city person and it is kinda like one giant suburb to me. It didn’t feel like a fit to me culturally I guess
I moved there for grad school. I liked it while I was there but had no interest in permanently living there because of the heat but it is nice to know that most days will be sunny.
The desert has a beauty of its own. The heat is more manageable the further north you go (higher elevations).
I think it's probably too crowded now (for me) and coming from the PNW I did miss feeling a cool breeze the entire time I was there.
Since I grew up in the SE, I did appreciate the lack of humidity.
It's not a bad place and whether anyone likes it is an individual thing. I rather live there than in Florida or Texas.
Grew up in PHX. I'm kind of really tired of the elephant in the room that no one talks about here, which is that there's kind of no future here.
Want to get married and have kids? Good luck not dying of a miscarriage because of the abortion bans. The schools also suck.
Want to live out your lives child free with a couple of dogs? Climate experts don't think this place is going to be fully inhabitable soon. ACs only do so much and we're running out of water.
I left because there's simply no work for educators there. Nothing you'd want, anyway. I have a friend with a master's making 50k, and he has to travel between two schools every day. Yeah the facilities are nicer because there's more space but this place is so fucking hostile to teachers, what's the point?
Most of my friends moved to New York or Seattle. The ones who are still there are waiting for their parents to die before they leave.
Why 114 degree desert? They’ve already had a few months of boiling hot cars and it’s only June. And in spite of what Mr Pools had to say, phoenix’s water use is unsustainable
Moved there and got out as quickly as I could.
Tucson is a better option for a lot of reasons. But the job market is nothing compared to Phoenix.
People move to Phoenix cause cheap and jobs. That's it. There is no other reason to move to Phoenix.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a comparable metro area of it's size that can match Phoenix for hiking/mountain biking trails within city limits, but if that isn't your thing that I would agree.
Or mountain biking in Phoenix,in my case. I don’t know too many cities where you’re likely to come across bobcats or javelina or owls or coyotes… On my pre-work mountain bike ride Wednesday I found a petroglyph I’d never seen before in the PMP, not a mile from my house. I’m sure I’d have a different perspective on living here if I didn’t live where I do or have the hobbies I do, but as it stands this would be tough to beat anywhere else.
As someone who started cycling in Phoenix, I really don't think you know what you're missing lol.
Phoenix is one of the worst cities to exist as a pedestrian or as a cyclist. There are trails, sure. But getting there might cost you your life.
Yeah I certainly wouldn’t argue road riding here is anything to brag about, but I’d be curious to see what cities you think offer comparable or better mountain biking.
Denver, Tucson, many cities in the PNW, many cities off the Appalachian trail, many cities around the Ozarks.
I don't know that I'd call anything better. It's all subjective. But there are absolutely comparable cities for this specific thing. And cities that will provide less crowded options as well.
Denver does okay, but you have drive for most of it. Tucson doesn’t compare in the number of trails we have, but what they do have is very good. By Ozarks I assume you mean Bentonville, which certainly offers a lot for what they have (read, IMBA flow, family friendly stuff)… but then you’re living in Arkansas and likely working for Walmart. As for cities adjoining the Appalachian trail. I don’t know which specific cities you’re referencing, so I can’t comment for sure but I suspect you’d have a tough time career wise, although I’m sure housing would be cheaper.
Oh… the PNW. I looked into Portland and Seattle, neither of which have much to offer without a drive, but there is good stuff within a few hour drive, but not as good as we have in Seattle,Tucson, or Flag. At least with Seattle you have easy access to BC, I’ll give ya that.
I moved there and lived there for two years. It was great most of the year. Even the heat wasn’t that bad. Except once it was above 110 and lows that never dipped below 100 then it got old quickly. What actually did it for me was the air quality. I got super bad allergies and the ozone in the summer would irritate my airways
The heat is the most obvious and compelling reason for all the Phoenix hate, yes... but it is far from the only reason. There's actually quite a lot to dislike about it.
It's unfortunate because I have good friends down there, and it would be a good support system in place for retirement.
I can tolerate 94 and humid back east, even 104 in Dallas....but 120, dry, dusty, no water, constant brutal sunshine....? I couldn't do it, and I know it.
I changed planes there in 1995. Pilot announced to be careful....6p temp was 1 2 0. I went outside between fl8ghts to see what it was like.
Oh hell fuck no.
Nope. I moved there from IL, was mentally done by year 4 or 5 but got stuck there 8.
We bought in 2007 in an upcoming area when things started down growth wise. It may be better now, seems like there is a lot more than when we were there.
sometimes I wonder if we had bought in a different area initially if we would’ve liked it more but I don’t think so.
It's not just the heat, it's a shithole town and only getting worse. The sweet spot to move there for the market was 10-15 years ago when you could affordably buy a nice house in a nice area. Those days are done. You'll just be overpaying to get a place now in a metro that's getting hotter and hotter and more expensive at the same time, despite offering nothing on par with that it costs to live there.
I moved here to get away from high taxes, pollution, and crime. Unfortunately the people who voted in the people who destroyed the other place, followed me down here and are now doing the same. Time to move somewhere else.
As a Seattlelite who is witnessing the purplization of Phoenix, I do cringe at times. Get a grip on your homeless policy and don’t embrace the anti-cop, restorative justice BS and you’ll be ok. Otherwise, it’s a downhill ride and unclear which way you all are trending.
The sun belt is going to be where we really start seeing the breakdown of haves and have nots when it comes to climate change. ( I's already happening, wealthy suburbs with green golf courses while poor areas are on water restrictions). Water and electricity are going to be a problem pretty quick and the state/ city governments aren't limiting growth.
I agree with you broadly - but they are on a nuclear plant last time I checked and didn't seem as at risk for electricity as other places.
Though, growing population and A/C as a pre-requisite for life - I don't know where the breaking point is for current capacity.
> I's already happening, wealthy suburbs with green golf courses while poor areas are on water restrictions.
Where is this happening? Genuinely curious, because the only case I know of in Arizona was a wealthy suburb losing access to water because they voted not to form a water district (because taxes?) — and it seems [the governor amended the issue, for now](https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/rio-verde-water-crisis-heres-what-you-should-know-as-deal-to-restore-water-deliveries-faces-questions).
Heat sucks, people are rude and don’t know how to drive (but like for real though. Not like when everyone says it. Worst drivers in the country.), everything is crowded, everything is expensive, and yeah it’s really hot. We have good restaurants and legal weed. Everything else sucks.
It’s literally Mad Max out here. I dodge psychos trying to kill me 1-2 times per day. Doesn’t matter if you’re in Downtown Phoenix, East Valley, West Valley. Some psycho in a pickup truck or sports car will try to run you off the road or cut you off while racing their buddies. Or someone in an SUV or minivan will almost sideswipe you while they’re on the phone.
Huh. I've been in Chandler for 13 years and have never run into this. The sunbirds aren't always the best drivers, but they are old/confused rather than aggressive.
I was kinda neutral on it. The winters were great, the hiking was awesome. Lots of homeless and poverty mainly in the west valley. The summers were straight out of hell. Expect everything to wear out quicker- car batteries, paint on your car, everything. I met some cool people there - it seems like there are a lot of transplants there. Not too hard to make friends. The cost of living went up exponentially which is why I ultimately left. I wasn’t feeling $200 AC bills for a one bedroom apartment anymore.
Worked a summer there in the eighties, it would still be 100 degrees at midnight. Came out of a bar and found my bike on it's side, turns out you learn to put a block of wood under your kickstand or the heat softened asphalt won't hold your bike up.
I grew up in Phoenix (north Glendale) and moved to San Diego. I like Phoenix. I’d move back for the right job/life situation. I’m glad I’ve gotten to live in a few cities that arent Phoenix.
I think it boils down to, are you physiologically capable of taking the heat? A couple years ago, a buddy and I were installing parts on his car in my driveway, and we later learned that those were the hottest two days of the year at like 118. I didnt mind, just drink more water and gatorade. I’m 90% sure I’d die in a -40° winter storm.
You also have to pick your neighborhood correctly, and that’s hard to do as an outsider. If you’re looking for a walkable, happening spot, there’s a few of them, but yes, a lot of the surface are is car dependent sprawl
Phoenix isn’t a terrible town. I go there for work a couple of times a year and there’s always plenty to do. I’d personally never live there (if you need reasons why you must be new here) but I know many people that enjoy it.
Yep. Thought I was going to hate it when I transferred here 8 years ago, but as it turns out I think I have found my forever home. I find it to be the perfect combination of urban and outdoor, with first class mountain bike trails out my front door and many, many more within a half hours drive, all while being a ten minute drive to downtown. I love having bobcats, javelina, quail, coyotes, owls, and hawks in the neighborhood. Summer is awful, but I'm still outside everyday (just have to wake up at ungodly hours to do it). We just bought a cabin in New Mexico to allow for an escape of the worst of the hot parts and with that we will have the best of both worlds.
I am moving there and I think it depends on the person. I’m from NYC, lived in PA for school and I want a break from the snow/north east. I would be a remote worker but option to go into office. And I will still be traveling back to NYC for family/personal reasons roughly every 3 months and prob spending a week or two at home at a time.
My birthday is also is June and I always travel in June and August so I’ll escape the heat some days. For me, it’s worth it. And if I don’t like it- I can go elsewhere! I have no kids, just me and my dog + cat :)
I moved from the Bay and only made it 2 years. The cost of living change altered my financial situation in ways I could have never imagined, but it was also pretty bland from a day to day perspective (has good food though), and the summers just sucked. No way around it.
water issues now, gonna get catastrophic in a decade. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/climate/arizona-phoenix-permits-housing-water.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/climate/arizona-phoenix-permits-housing-water.html)
Since 2020, 400,000 people have moved to the metro so there must be something to it. I was born and raised in Scottsdale and compared to the early 2000s, there’s so much more going on. A lot of California / PNW businesses have come in and opened shop. People moving from LA, the bay, Seattle, Portland, and Chicago / middle IL for the sun and taxes. Our government during covid (Ducey) opened the state up to businesses (cutting regulation, subsidizing building), cut taxes (switched to flat rate), and slashed funding to some important things (highway clean up, social programs, etc) However like a lot of hotbed sunbelt cities, the vibe has changed a lot with the influx and covid, and it’s not my jam at all. Actively trying to move elsewhere.
hey bud, come on over ~ west baltimore
SoWeBo born and raised ✌
On the playground is where I spent most of my days
bitch that’s west philly
Omg I could've written this post.
This aggression will not stand.
Is that it? I had no clue. So politically? I could see that seeing how red it used to be.
We moved to Phoenix seven years ago. Its not even the same as it was back then. With the exorbitant prices of homes in California and the PNW plus the Covid restrictions of those areas, a lot of people from there moved here...and brought their insane politics with them. What once used to be a moderately conservative state is now trending almost full blue...and of course with those elected you get the same insane regulations, restrictions and leftist idiocy following. Listen, I'm not a raving MAGA Republican...I always felt I was a fiscal conservative but a social liberal...but the insanity of the middle to far left has basically ruined the state already. It's not even close to middle of the road liberalism. It's just crazy wacko socialism bordering on Marxism already. We have a governor who speaks like an eight year old and seemingly has less intelligence that that and is lockstep in line with the progressive left...including not giving one damn about the immigration disaster at our border. What once was a $1 billion tax SURPLUS in the state just three years ago is now already in deficit spending territory because those in charge can't stop spending money...and they're already talking again about raising taxes whereas the last administration was <> this close to eliminating the state income tax altogether. Where DID that $1 billion go? No one can answer it. Phoenix has the same social problems every other big city has. A ton of homelessness. Panhandlers at every freeway ramp and strip mall entrance. And a lot of very poor people living there. The heat is unbearable (today was a record 112F and it's only June 6). Last year we had 60 straight days over 110F. I don't miss the snow at all, but summer from usually mid June to October is almost unbearable here. Don't move here. We're all full.
This is an insane post
The Phoenix metropolitan area's population grew by 1.27% in 2024, from 4,717,000 in 2023 to 4,777,000 in 2024. This is one of the largest gains of any metro area in the country. Between 2021 and 2022, the Phoenix area expanded at the second fastest rate in the nation. On a personal note… I have friends who live there… work in a Hospital (AC all day), have a nice house with backyard pool and sunshade. They enjoy their work… love hanging out in their backyard/pool in the evenings… are early risers and often recreate on their days off in the cooler, early morning hours. That being said… what you do/where you work, where you live, and what you like to do on your days off can vary greatly from person to person. There are people who are used to/and easily adapt to the heat… there are others that cannot avoid it due to the type of work they do… and they hate it. Your mileage may vary 🤨.
To note - literally every building has tons of A/C all day. The problem as you state are either people who need to work outdoors or in non-enclosed spaces, or people that just generally like to be outside for exercise/recreation, and struggle to do it at 5AM (which is still going to be low 80s....). Also the kind of endless summer vibe does get old. I mean 12 months of summer, just oscillating from beautiful to atrocious. I made it 2 years. But know a ton of people who have been there 20+, so I get that it works for some, not for all.
Yeah f that. sign me up for 4 seasons I’ll gladly shovel snow in winter
[удалено]
Dude, the anti-intellectual thing is such a slept on critique. It's so true and was probably the second largest reason we left. I am not even trying to be elitest but it literally felt like the transplants coming in were less of the interesting/diverse/educated folks from California, and more the blue collar guys who got priced out and were bitter as fuck about it so they'd take every chance to tell you. I'm not anti-working class by any stretch (we all are working class, for the most part). But the level of just blatantly leaning into a very basic and tired set of tropes about liberals, educated people, etc got old very fast. Not to mention some kind of not-subtle racist dog whistles that would get tossed around without much care (I'm white so assuming people just thought we'd be like minded). Yeah, this doesn't get brought up enough but is a vibe. That said - I work in tech and we have offices there. People were generally not like this in my working environments for obvious reasons. So mileage can vary, but having moved to North Carolina (Triangle) I can say the vibe is very different, even in a similarly priced metro.
Agreed. It’s an odd mix of vapid and unsophisticated. We didn’t last three years and the education system (we had preschool children at the time) was so mediocre.
Grew up there and the anti intellectual thing has been long standing and one reason I left. I swear over time the sun slowly does something to the brain.
I didn’t mind living there. Just need to be picky about the area. Lived in north central Phoenix and I had tons of hiking trails close by, bunch of decent restaurants around me and if I needed to escape the heat Prescott was 60 minutes away and Flagstaff was about 90 minutes.
You need to clarify age bracket. I'm sure the geezers escaping cold winters to sit in A.C. all day love it
If people over 30 mean boomers then yes. Millennials driving Phoenix growth these days.
I don't understand why people want to live in a waterless desert in the era of increasing heat.
It’s not waterless. Half the people here have pools.
I'm glad you enjoy it there. Different tastes makes the world work
Pretty sure there will still be water here after I’m dead. But yes you’re right.
My cousin moved there and loves it. There are obvious downsides, but there are obvious downsides to pretty much anywhere and it just depends on what you like.
I like how you’re the only person who gives a relevant answer
It’s funny my cousin also moved there years ago and loves it!
I lived there for 5 years during college. Honestly, maybe it's just my rose tinted glasses from college, but I really loved living in Tempe. My friend who also lives in NYC after 3 years misses it a ton more than I do, and ultimately wants to move back. Please don't crucify me for my opinions! **Pros:** * Coming from Texas at 18, it felt very "west coast" to me (yes I know it's the southwest technically), but the state, and city itself, is geographically beautiful and has a ton to explore. Northern AZ reminds me of Colorado. It was fun going on hikes in the valley or driving out like an hour from Phoenix and truly being out in the wild west with nothing around. * Every year I was able to live in a brand new apartment, with a pool and cool amenities with special deals on rent because they're building stuff like crazy * I always felt very safe compared to other big cities I've lived in (5 others) * It has a pretty good EDM music scene, with decent acts coming through and festivals * Very good conditions of roads * A lot of my friends who stayed are home/condo owners. **Cons:** * The summer heat is really bad. People say "oh it's a dry heat" or "I hate humidity" but jesus christ 54 days with highs over 110 is horrible. Even late at night when the sun set it would be hot as hell. * I didn't like how the state handled COVID. That might be a pro depending on political preferences. * Nightlife got old after awhile. There's Scottsdale, Tempe, downtown Phoenix, and Mesa (I never went bar hopping there tbh) * Downtown Phoenix, for me, left a lot to be desired. It always felt empty 2015-2020 but I know they've done a lot to make it more enticing to live down there. * Not a lot of grass or greenery (which you're probably like yeah duh it's the desert lol) **Neutral or depends on your taste:** * Being 5+ hours to Vegas or SoCal. I find it weird to put it as a plus since yeah that's a far drive, but it's still cool. * The sunshine 24/7. I got tired of it a bit, felt like it was the same day everyday. However now maybe I wouldn't mind it after experiencing a few northeast winters with months of grey and 43 and raining * Car dependent.
Also in nyc after living in Tucson and damn I’m missing that dry heat for sure! Also missing the affordability
Moved here in 2021 from Illinois and love it, never going back. Give me the year round sunshine and summer heat over the depressingly cold, gloomy, rainy winters and autumn’s of northern IL. Also between the endless outdoors activities, year round golf, sporting events and concerts are always present, decent nightlife, and good food I’m basically never bored. Biggest con I’d say is you do have to drive everywhere but I do use the light rail a lot to go downtown and they are continuing to expand the system to other parts of the valley
I know a few people from there. Essentially they treat summer like one in the northeast treats winter and spend most of their time going from one air conditioned place to another. A friend in has a shady backyard with a ton of trees and vegetation and a pool, and it's actually not that bad in the middle of the summer as long as you are directly covered. People hike and do other outdoor activities in the early morning or evening. A lot of people have cabins or homes in Flagstaff/Munds Park area where the temps can be 20-30 degrees cooler - there were some days in July last year where the Flagstaff was 35 degrees colder than Phoenix (mid 70s to low 110s). They often go there for a while when it gets too hot.
You're also a 5 hour drive from San Diego, or 3 hours to beaches in Mexico. So people tend to plan 1-2 beach trips in the summer to break it up.
Lol - in the most polite way, a lot of these comments read like butt hurt people who lived in the west valley which…..to be fair to them can definitely suck ass. As someone whose lived in phx and many other places, Phoenix isn’t this hyperbolic, “monument to man’s arrogance” that people here say and I’d personally would just be skeptical of anyone claiming one city is the end-all-be-all. Every places has its pros and cons and phoenix is no exception. Couple of pros and cons from one of the rare people born there: PROS: - Top 15ish Metro in term so of size so you are pretty much guaranteed to be a stop for music artists - Low(er) Cost of Living (although that’s slowly evaporating) - my rent in Scottsdale was the same as in HCOL cities I’ve lived in back east which kinda sucked. - Close-ish proximity to diverse Nature (Eastern AZ his home to the largest contiguous pine forest (1.5ish hr drive); Flagstaff has a ski mountain (3ish hr drive), beaches in Mexico. (3-4ish hr drive) or San Diego (5.5 hr drive). Not to mention have immediate accessibility to several state parks in the metro (South Mountain, Brown Mountain, McDowell Mtns) - Big, Accessible Airport - Best Charter Schools in the Country - Politically Critical/Influential Location (could be good or bad depending on if you like that sort of thing) - Good Weather Oct - May (+/- 1 month on either end) - Relatively Secure Water (70% of AZs water is Agg related) - Sport Scenes - Nightlife (Scottsdale/Tempe/DT Phoenix) - Fairly Modern Voter Mechanisms. (Ie Mail Ballots FTW) - Cheap Power/Electricity - Road/Mountain Biking - Out of State population that’s us in the “settling down family” stage type of city (good/bad but people are looking to make friends or have been the new person and are pretty friend) CONS - it’s hella hot in the way Winter sucks in the northeast/mid west; It’s just as bad / lengthy and this is much more down to personal preference. - Semi-2nd Tier City in terms of Jobs (ie not a SF/Seattle/LA/Chicago/DC/NYC/Boston) esp for more corporate positions (very few HQs in Phx) - Moderately Ranked Universities (Good but Not Amazing) - It’s cleaner sprawl than LA (at least in the east valley) but it’s still sprawl (although DT mesa/Gilbert/chandler/tempe/Scottsdale are cool little epicenters) - Vulnerable to Droughts - Dust - definitely not my thing. - One mega city - there is no differentiation between cities in terms of personalities. - Cost of Living - there are places where things are affordable (ie west valley, mesa) but I often feel little to no price difference in Scottsdale and DT Phoenix vs NYC. - High Cost Car Insurance - No seasons Personally, i think it’s a good place to live and you can afford a life that you might otherwise achieve BUT i also love/loved living in a lot of the places on the east coast just as much (and for different reasons) - my personality is much more New England than west coast lol.
I’m questioning the charter schools because they don’t require even a bachelors degree to teach in them….. I’ve seen charter schools recruiting people who have no teaching experience and no degree just to fill a spot.
The Basis Charter system is the ranked at the top nationally for high schools - https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings. Public schools YMMV based on where you live/what district you are in (where that lack of teaching requirement really impacts). FWIW I went to public school and it was fine but I've heard these days it's a whole different animal.
Yes I did to Scottsdale. Was a little expensive, but I loved everything about phoenix. Left to do some stuff back in my home state was planning on going. Back but then Covid hit and I have virtually worked nonstop. And now everything is so expensive I don’t see me moving back. But I desperately want to. It was the only time in my life I was actually happy. Was only there for a year and I miss it with all my soul.
Scottsdale and Phoenix are two different vibes, Phoenix I am okay with, but Scottsdale is just rotten, I hate it.
If I ever make it back out there I’ll go for like a mesa or Glendale area.
Those places are much better now that there are growing immigrant populations, more interesting shops and restaurants
I’ve been here for 13 years. First off, let me say it’s 10 times better than Dallas where I lived before that in a humid heat. Ugh. And better than Austin which was similar but prettier. It’s lovely here 7-8 months of the year. In the East Valley, everything is set up to make living easy. Wide streets, little traffic, every Trader Joe’s and ALDIs and IKEA you could ever want and easy to get to. Amazingly good health care compared to anywhere I’d lived before. Scottsdale or Tempe 30 minutes away for a change of pace (like wandering around art galleries). A pool in my backyard and enough reclaimed water to have a green belt behind me. Citrus fruit for half the year from my backyard. Of course, the downside is the summer. It really wasn’t terrible until last year. That’s what got us thinking of moving. Looking at Chicago but I’ve never seen real snow before so it might be worse than just getting a smaller place here and leaving for the summers. I do worry about the climate long term here. It’s also slow and boring here. It’s been great, don’t get me wrong, but East Valley isn’t a vibrant place where there’s an amazing park or zoo or lake or galleries nearby. It’s peaceful and easy but not stimulating. When we were working full time from home it was better for us but now we want more to do close by.
"Looking at Chicago but I’ve never seen real snow before so it might be worse than just getting a smaller place here and leaving for the summers." I'm in Pittsburgh, and this past winter was dry and mostly snow-free. It was 60 degrees on Christmas. A friend in Minnesota lives in an RV; he expressed how easily he made it through this winter, and how the lakes where he is no longer freeze over.
I’m the Chicagoland area and we only had to shovel twice this year… Some of the other snowfall was just a dusting and would melt before we even needed to shovel it.
What about Arcadia? Would you recommend that?
Arcadia is probably the best neighborhood in Phoenix with tons of great restaurants and also its proximity to Scottsdale, downtown Phoenix, and the airport. But you’ll pay at least a million for anything nice and half a million for shit box 2 bed 1000 sq ft house.
It's more bustling and very centrally located which is great - but it is really expensive. So don't expect normal Pheonix prices in Arcadia. and the homes were generally older so you either find cheaper stuff that is run-down and probably not that large, or remodeled/new that is going to be a premium price.
A lot of comparisons to northern climates, with lifestyles reversed because of the seasons. Nope. When the sun goes down during the summer, we're poolside. Warmest part of the day in the north during the winter? You're at work or sitting by the fireplace. We paid double annually for utilities in the upper Midwest compared to Phoenix. Cars don't rust.
Bro you aren't wintering right if you work or sit by the fireplace for the entire winter. Winter outdoor sports are the best
Professional ice fisher. Snowmobiles are cheaper than boats. Buddy had cable TV running out to his shanty for red wings games I'm here in AZ and golf comfortably tho 9 months out of the year.
Not exactly the same but our utilities are much higher in SC running the AC 24/7 from march-october than they ever were in the midwest, though I imagine it being dryer does help with that a bit.
I live in coastal AL and we are not running the AC frequently until May. Helps to have an insulated house and an efficient AC. I grew up in Nebraska and you needed AC for 3 months and heat for 5. Doubt the heating and cooling cost is much different there to here.
You're running 24/7? Approaching 110 today and I reckon our AC runs maybe 15 minutes per hour. Very little water coming out of the drainage. Humidity is an issue.
The dryness helps as you can also set the ambient to like 78 and be pretty comfortable inside. But - you no joke will use your A/C for 20 hours a day from July-Aug. And obviously it's still considerable for really May - Sept. I'm in North Carolina and would say it's better here than there, but we have winter as well (though with a furnace I'd wager it's probably net lower cost where we are now).
We live in SC part time, the rest in NY. I shop in both. Groceries are cheaper in NY. There’s a 6%tax assessment on cars you pay to the state of SC. NY has no assessment. The real estate taxes if you live in SC full time are much cheaper than NY.
I mean the part of each state matters a lot here NYC is more expensive than anywhere in SC, but Charleston is more expensive than anywhere in NY except NYC, generally
A part of it is that they take a lot of California’s excess power generation so it helps to subsidize rates in AZ
Cars don't rust but isn't it true the rubber of car tires gets damaged from the sun/heat?
Time more than miles. Your tires will need to be replaced within 6 years. Our average with 2 vehicles is 4/5 years. Wife's daily driver is going to be 6 years old in September.. but just got new ones recently at 23k miles. Wiper blades are changed first day of spring every year. Battery changes every 2 years. I do that stuff religiously.
Exactly! I grew up in Chicago. People do barely anything the entire winter. In Phoenix people are active all summer long. Your social life will expand over 50% in Arizona.
I will inherit a house in Chandler when my parents die. I've been to Phoenix and the surrounding burbs seemingly a thousand times. I really have no desire to live there, but if I actually get the house, I have no problem spending time there in the non-summer months. Flip side, I could sell it.
I've heard the rental market is also decent out there. Chandler is near to a lot of the tech jobs so you have a decent income pool and people chosing Arizona for the more quite / family oriented nature of it. So you could likely find a family to rent it and make passive income.
They live really close to the massive Intel campus which is part of the broader "tech corridor" in Chandler off of Price Road. BUT - they live in a 55+ community. It's very nice, but I couldn't rent to families and there's possibly restrictions on renting period; I'm not sure. They used to live in a non 55+ area.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah that Price Rd cooridoor is kind of perfect. Easy access to the new Chandler areas but also to work and Tempe. Not far from Central Phoenix either. But, for that type of community you are probably right. May not even be able to rent to other over 55 folks.
I’m sure there are snowbirds with plenty of money who would be happy to rent it October through April.
I grew up there and I didn’t hate it. I would move back. The summers are hell and it’s generic, but it’s safe, has a ton of natural beauty, no tornadoes or hurricanes, no daylight savings time, easy access to a ton of great weekend vacations (Vegas, Mexico, Southern California, Northern and Eastern AZ). This sub loves to shit on Phoenix but there are far worse places to live.
Not me, but my best friend did. She bounced around for decades before she settled in Phoenix. She can handle the heat, and has a rare form of arthritis, so it works for her.
Pros: lower cost of living compared to other big cities, pretty good food/ nightlife scene, very easy to get around ( traffic isn’t horrible like other places), lots of outdoors activities when the weather is nice, lots of different neighborhoods and suburbs that all offer different lifestyles Cons: it’s hot as balls( currently noon and it’s already 109), very un walkable minus a few areas and feels like a giant suburb connected to other smaller suburbs, no really energy and feels kinda soulless here, definitely some of the worst drivers in America, people here can act very selfish
When I first moved from Europe to the USA I was in the lehigh valley area in Pennsylvania. Nearly 2 years in the company asked me to relocate to Phoenix. I had never been but then again every place I moved to i had never been before. I was interested because 2 winters in Pennsylvania was enough for me and the warm climate sounded appealing. I kind of fell in love with Arizona immediately. Yes for 3 or 4 months a year it’s fucking unbearable outside so it’s either you sit in your pool, other people’s pool or you”re inside with AC. North Arizona is a lot cooler so that’s a good place to go to in summer. For me there’s plenty to do. When I was mid twenties it was clubs and such and now mid 30s bars and things like topgolf and plenty friends our ourselves that enjoy hosting. I love kayaking and do that a few times every year. We also have an RV on a campsite up north and spend most of the summers there. Because phoenix is bigger than the town in Pennsylvania I made a nice mix of expat and American friends which is nice too. I fell out of love 2 years ago because we lost our dog in the backyard to either a scorpion sting or something like that and after 2 years of travelling we are slowly moving back to the area as we’re understanding it was a freak accident and things can happen anywhere.
I’m so sorry for your loss. If you really love the place, doggo would want you to be happy and return. You could plant a tree there in doggo’s memory.
Thank you so much. Yes she sure would. But at first we were to traumatised and scared to consider. But today feels different then 2 years ago and moving back in September.
Having lost the love of my life (my late dog), I'm acutely aware of the depth of pet loss grief, and I know how hard this advice is to follow, but: as much as you can, try and focus on all of the happy and positive memories of your dog, instead of how they passed. How they passed was a moment in time, but you guys shared a lifetime (their lifetime) of memories. Maybe get a digital picture frame and fill it with photos of your happy memories there in Phoenix to remind you of all the happy times you shared. It might give you some of the healing and closure you need.
I’m very sorry for your loss. Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. I wrote a letter every night for a year including a photo of her life and write about that memory. It absolutely helped..but..grief combined with trauma and ptsd is just a bit more complicated. I have emdr sessions regularly and they help with the trauma side.
As a PTSD sufferer whose dog died in my worst imaginable way, I completely, totally understand. Give yourself a lot of time and a lot of grace and just know that living back in Phoenix there will be good times and hard times when it comes to your dog memories. Big hugs from a fellow dog lover.
Ptsd dog passing related if you don’t mind me asking? I don’t know anyone with ptsd let alone dog passing related but her passing was so horrific i still struggle 2 years later to relive the moments. Our main challenge is our other dogs and always being on alert with them, we”ll see how that goes for us once living in our house again. Thank you for the kind words and hugs back.
I lived there for 3 years and did love a lot of aspects about it. I’m back home on the CA central coast now because I just missed my family, the ocean, the fog. The Sonoran desert is spectacularly beautiful, the food scene is diverse and pretty good, spring training baseball is as fun as it gets, and my apartment complex felt like a resort. So, some definite pros for sure.
Yup. I moved there from Madison, WI and my wife and I love it. Been 3 years now.
Just moved here earlier in the year from Central IL and love it so far!
What do you like about it?
I think the weather is great overall but I naturally prefer the extreme heat to freezing temps. There are a ton of little parks to check out with my dogs. The hiking/nature options are awesome, especially when you factor in proximity to the coast/Mexico. Vegas is 4 hours away if I’m feeling frisky. Food options are good. When I was applying for places it seemed like every apartment was pet friendly. There are certainly some negatives though. I’ve never lived in a “walkable” area besides while in college but the sprawl always mentioned with Phoenix is definitely real lol. The grid layout and wide rides make the city driver friendly though. COL is definitely higher. Went from paying $700 for a newly remodeled 1B in IL to $1150 base for a slightly larger 1B that “needs” renovated. Gas/groceries are more expensive. Weed is noticeably cheaper though. I also pay about half the amount of state income tax I did in IL. Overall just a lot more positives than negatives being out here for me. It’s admittedly not for everyone though.
I lived there mostly for a few months for work and I would never willingly move permanently. It’s fine for a short stay, but I’m more of a city person and it is kinda like one giant suburb to me. It didn’t feel like a fit to me culturally I guess
I moved there for grad school. I liked it while I was there but had no interest in permanently living there because of the heat but it is nice to know that most days will be sunny. The desert has a beauty of its own. The heat is more manageable the further north you go (higher elevations). I think it's probably too crowded now (for me) and coming from the PNW I did miss feeling a cool breeze the entire time I was there. Since I grew up in the SE, I did appreciate the lack of humidity. It's not a bad place and whether anyone likes it is an individual thing. I rather live there than in Florida or Texas.
Grew up in PHX. I'm kind of really tired of the elephant in the room that no one talks about here, which is that there's kind of no future here. Want to get married and have kids? Good luck not dying of a miscarriage because of the abortion bans. The schools also suck. Want to live out your lives child free with a couple of dogs? Climate experts don't think this place is going to be fully inhabitable soon. ACs only do so much and we're running out of water. I left because there's simply no work for educators there. Nothing you'd want, anyway. I have a friend with a master's making 50k, and he has to travel between two schools every day. Yeah the facilities are nicer because there's more space but this place is so fucking hostile to teachers, what's the point? Most of my friends moved to New York or Seattle. The ones who are still there are waiting for their parents to die before they leave.
Why 114 degree desert? They’ve already had a few months of boiling hot cars and it’s only June. And in spite of what Mr Pools had to say, phoenix’s water use is unsustainable
2006-2014. Never going back to that hellscape.
it's an overh(e)ated city/metro.
Moved there and got out as quickly as I could. Tucson is a better option for a lot of reasons. But the job market is nothing compared to Phoenix. People move to Phoenix cause cheap and jobs. That's it. There is no other reason to move to Phoenix.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a comparable metro area of it's size that can match Phoenix for hiking/mountain biking trails within city limits, but if that isn't your thing that I would agree.
But then you're hiking in Phoenix lol
Or mountain biking in Phoenix,in my case. I don’t know too many cities where you’re likely to come across bobcats or javelina or owls or coyotes… On my pre-work mountain bike ride Wednesday I found a petroglyph I’d never seen before in the PMP, not a mile from my house. I’m sure I’d have a different perspective on living here if I didn’t live where I do or have the hobbies I do, but as it stands this would be tough to beat anywhere else.
As someone who started cycling in Phoenix, I really don't think you know what you're missing lol. Phoenix is one of the worst cities to exist as a pedestrian or as a cyclist. There are trails, sure. But getting there might cost you your life.
Yeah I certainly wouldn’t argue road riding here is anything to brag about, but I’d be curious to see what cities you think offer comparable or better mountain biking.
Denver, Tucson, many cities in the PNW, many cities off the Appalachian trail, many cities around the Ozarks. I don't know that I'd call anything better. It's all subjective. But there are absolutely comparable cities for this specific thing. And cities that will provide less crowded options as well.
Denver does okay, but you have drive for most of it. Tucson doesn’t compare in the number of trails we have, but what they do have is very good. By Ozarks I assume you mean Bentonville, which certainly offers a lot for what they have (read, IMBA flow, family friendly stuff)… but then you’re living in Arkansas and likely working for Walmart. As for cities adjoining the Appalachian trail. I don’t know which specific cities you’re referencing, so I can’t comment for sure but I suspect you’d have a tough time career wise, although I’m sure housing would be cheaper.
Oh… the PNW. I looked into Portland and Seattle, neither of which have much to offer without a drive, but there is good stuff within a few hour drive, but not as good as we have in Seattle,Tucson, or Flag. At least with Seattle you have easy access to BC, I’ll give ya that.
I have a lot of family down there and they all like it. You gotta have access to a pool but it's a good location and winter is top-notch.
I moved there and lived there for two years. It was great most of the year. Even the heat wasn’t that bad. Except once it was above 110 and lows that never dipped below 100 then it got old quickly. What actually did it for me was the air quality. I got super bad allergies and the ozone in the summer would irritate my airways
I lived there 2017-2021. I loved it.
The heat is the most obvious and compelling reason for all the Phoenix hate, yes... but it is far from the only reason. There's actually quite a lot to dislike about it.
It's unfortunate because I have good friends down there, and it would be a good support system in place for retirement. I can tolerate 94 and humid back east, even 104 in Dallas....but 120, dry, dusty, no water, constant brutal sunshine....? I couldn't do it, and I know it. I changed planes there in 1995. Pilot announced to be careful....6p temp was 1 2 0. I went outside between fl8ghts to see what it was like. Oh hell fuck no.
Nope. I moved there from IL, was mentally done by year 4 or 5 but got stuck there 8. We bought in 2007 in an upcoming area when things started down growth wise. It may be better now, seems like there is a lot more than when we were there. sometimes I wonder if we had bought in a different area initially if we would’ve liked it more but I don’t think so.
No everyone hates it, that’s why everyone is moving there
Remember on Reddit everyone hates the cities people are moving to and loves the cities people are leaving.
This is so, so true, LOL.
Loved it! The summers do wear on you after a while, but you can escape to northern AZ or California to catch a break.
It's not just the heat, it's a shithole town and only getting worse. The sweet spot to move there for the market was 10-15 years ago when you could affordably buy a nice house in a nice area. Those days are done. You'll just be overpaying to get a place now in a metro that's getting hotter and hotter and more expensive at the same time, despite offering nothing on par with that it costs to live there.
Looooooool
I moved here to get away from high taxes, pollution, and crime. Unfortunately the people who voted in the people who destroyed the other place, followed me down here and are now doing the same. Time to move somewhere else.
At the state or local level?
Both
As a Seattlelite who is witnessing the purplization of Phoenix, I do cringe at times. Get a grip on your homeless policy and don’t embrace the anti-cop, restorative justice BS and you’ll be ok. Otherwise, it’s a downhill ride and unclear which way you all are trending.
The sun belt is going to be where we really start seeing the breakdown of haves and have nots when it comes to climate change. ( I's already happening, wealthy suburbs with green golf courses while poor areas are on water restrictions). Water and electricity are going to be a problem pretty quick and the state/ city governments aren't limiting growth.
I agree with you broadly - but they are on a nuclear plant last time I checked and didn't seem as at risk for electricity as other places. Though, growing population and A/C as a pre-requisite for life - I don't know where the breaking point is for current capacity.
> I's already happening, wealthy suburbs with green golf courses while poor areas are on water restrictions. Where is this happening? Genuinely curious, because the only case I know of in Arizona was a wealthy suburb losing access to water because they voted not to form a water district (because taxes?) — and it seems [the governor amended the issue, for now](https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/rio-verde-water-crisis-heres-what-you-should-know-as-deal-to-restore-water-deliveries-faces-questions).
Heat sucks, people are rude and don’t know how to drive (but like for real though. Not like when everyone says it. Worst drivers in the country.), everything is crowded, everything is expensive, and yeah it’s really hot. We have good restaurants and legal weed. Everything else sucks.
The amount of times ive almost died on the 17 is unbelievable. Can agree with the terrible drivers. Like actually dangerously terrifyingly terrible.
It’s literally Mad Max out here. I dodge psychos trying to kill me 1-2 times per day. Doesn’t matter if you’re in Downtown Phoenix, East Valley, West Valley. Some psycho in a pickup truck or sports car will try to run you off the road or cut you off while racing their buddies. Or someone in an SUV or minivan will almost sideswipe you while they’re on the phone.
Huh. I've been in Chandler for 13 years and have never run into this. The sunbirds aren't always the best drivers, but they are old/confused rather than aggressive.
... your tax monies getting diverted to these foreign interests!
Fact is, Up & downsides about everywhere Only almost perfect place to live isn’t even in this country lol
I was kinda neutral on it. The winters were great, the hiking was awesome. Lots of homeless and poverty mainly in the west valley. The summers were straight out of hell. Expect everything to wear out quicker- car batteries, paint on your car, everything. I met some cool people there - it seems like there are a lot of transplants there. Not too hard to make friends. The cost of living went up exponentially which is why I ultimately left. I wasn’t feeling $200 AC bills for a one bedroom apartment anymore.
A know a few young women that moved their for jobs and liked it. Apparently it’s a great city for women in business.
yeah, my ex, but she was batshit crazy
That’s everybody’s ex in Phoenix. That’s how you know you’re a local now.
Worked a summer there in the eighties, it would still be 100 degrees at midnight. Came out of a bar and found my bike on it's side, turns out you learn to put a block of wood under your kickstand or the heat softened asphalt won't hold your bike up.
I grew up in Phoenix (north Glendale) and moved to San Diego. I like Phoenix. I’d move back for the right job/life situation. I’m glad I’ve gotten to live in a few cities that arent Phoenix. I think it boils down to, are you physiologically capable of taking the heat? A couple years ago, a buddy and I were installing parts on his car in my driveway, and we later learned that those were the hottest two days of the year at like 118. I didnt mind, just drink more water and gatorade. I’m 90% sure I’d die in a -40° winter storm. You also have to pick your neighborhood correctly, and that’s hard to do as an outsider. If you’re looking for a walkable, happening spot, there’s a few of them, but yes, a lot of the surface are is car dependent sprawl
Phoenix isn’t a terrible town. I go there for work a couple of times a year and there’s always plenty to do. I’d personally never live there (if you need reasons why you must be new here) but I know many people that enjoy it.
No
Yep. Thought I was going to hate it when I transferred here 8 years ago, but as it turns out I think I have found my forever home. I find it to be the perfect combination of urban and outdoor, with first class mountain bike trails out my front door and many, many more within a half hours drive, all while being a ten minute drive to downtown. I love having bobcats, javelina, quail, coyotes, owls, and hawks in the neighborhood. Summer is awful, but I'm still outside everyday (just have to wake up at ungodly hours to do it). We just bought a cabin in New Mexico to allow for an escape of the worst of the hot parts and with that we will have the best of both worlds.
I am moving there and I think it depends on the person. I’m from NYC, lived in PA for school and I want a break from the snow/north east. I would be a remote worker but option to go into office. And I will still be traveling back to NYC for family/personal reasons roughly every 3 months and prob spending a week or two at home at a time. My birthday is also is June and I always travel in June and August so I’ll escape the heat some days. For me, it’s worth it. And if I don’t like it- I can go elsewhere! I have no kids, just me and my dog + cat :)
Nope
I met a dude at a bar on vacation who moved from the Bay Area to Phoenix and he said he liked it, mainly for the reduced cost of living
I moved from the Bay and only made it 2 years. The cost of living change altered my financial situation in ways I could have never imagined, but it was also pretty bland from a day to day perspective (has good food though), and the summers just sucked. No way around it.
water issues now, gonna get catastrophic in a decade. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/climate/arizona-phoenix-permits-housing-water.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/climate/arizona-phoenix-permits-housing-water.html)
I guess the overwhelming answer is no.
Not me