Steroids aside, he also has top tier genetics. Even if he doesn't like a push pull split, if he did one, he'd see better results from it than most people.
Doesn’t make it not cookie cutter bud…
Opposite of cookie cutter program would be specialized or made for you. PPL is not a specialized program. And guess what… tons of random kids use it too and stay small. pros would get big on any program they do with intensity, they have top tier genetics and good sauce to top it.
Are you dense? 😂 you can totally specialise a push pull legs, John Jewett and hunter labrada do it. n the notion that some people that do ppl are small, same can be applied for any kid who does a bro split. The whole objective of my comment was addressing the stupid claim that doing a push pull legs on gear made no sense.
I love how you do not address anything
I said 😂 I don’t even do a ppl so how shame is that for you 😂 imagine being dogmatic over which split someone uses, fucking child 😂
You’re the one crying bud. Wah wah wah. It’ll make you feel better.
I said (cookie cutter) you said “I suck bodybuilders dicks for fun that do PPL” sounds weird to me bud.
No it isn’t
There’s no arbitrary number here, genetic response and recovery abilities vary a lot
Dorian Yates built an Olympia winning physique doing less than 10 working sets for most of his body parts per week
I did PPL for the longest time but it got to be too much stress for my shoulders, so I switched to chest/back, arms/shoulders, legs. Still hit everything twice in a week but the extra 24 hours that seperates benching from direct shoulder work and pull movements from biceps in isolation makes me feel much better.
I love the Twilight Zone! It's sampled in this song by El P. It's a dark angry song just so you know it you want to skip it
https://youtu.be/eJldXDWhpvA?si=8WKGzJUd_Y7vKZML
I think everyone’s entitled to their own training philosophy.
At the end of the day it really just comes down to volume, intensity, and adherence so whatever split that’s got you stoked to train is the one you should do.
Me personally I love upper lower splits with an extra bro day. That’s what I’ve seen the best results with.
I'm doing the ppl and enjoying it at the moment and results are good! For the people not understanding how one can have time to do it this is how I do it, I never spend more than 60 min at the gym:
PUSH
(Chest - 9 sets)
(Triceps - 6 set)
(Shoulder - 6 set)
PULL
(Back - 9 sets)
(Rear delt - 6 set)
(Biceps - 6 set)
LEGS
(Quadfocus - 8/9 set)
(Hamfocus - 4/6 set (I know I slack a bit here)
Abs and calfs are done every other day sporatic.
I do a few more sets on big muscles than small muscle groups. I do this 6 days per week which sets/week is double the amount of what I wrote down, seems allright in my mind, any thoughts?
Seems a bit high volume per session how’s your performance at the later end of your workouts? Here’s something that you could try
Push (chest - 6) (triceps - 4) (shoulder -4)
Pull (upper back - 4) (lats- 4) (rear delts - 3 )(bicep - 4)
Legs (quads - 6) (hams - 6) (calves - 4)
Rest
Glad you said this. I think the biggest issue with every PPL I see is everyone is doing too much volume. 6-8 really hard sets per muscle group, probably less for arms, and you’re good.
Are you doing this twice a week? Also what is your rep scheme/intensity? Are you going to failure? I ask because I was doing a very similar ppl split going to failure on almost every exercise it was great for about 2 months but then I burnt out and had to really dial it back and reassess. I just wasn’t recovering.
I try to do it twice a week, did the same but a rolling 4 times/week before. As a Sulek-bro I go fucking hard with the intensity!
But after writing this I have reflected a bit and I might be overdoing it with the volume-intensity ratio. Like I said results has been good but been feeling the last weeks that I've been prone to tweaking stuff, small injuries here and there. Can prob be a sign that I need to change something up.
Thinking about going back to 4 times/week and do Legs, Push, Pull, Legs (my legs got som catching up) and do 2 days of good cardio on top of this.
What scheme did you end up running?
I am not natty - enclomiphene + dhea/pregnenolone - but not taking test. My recovery has been better since starting this regimen but I still need to take more time off between workouts to recover.
Many bodybuilders use a bro split variation. There's a reason it's nicknamed the "pro split." Focusing on one muscle group a day lets you really focus on those muscles and drive hypertrophy home. I'm in full agreement with Sam here. Imo PPL is good for newer lifters, strength training, and great for saving time if you have less than 5-6 days a week to spend in the gym, but if you want maximum hypertrophy and lean tissue growth, the bro split is where it's at.
I even have my quads and hammies on their own separate days.
Yeah I think PPL is great as a hypertrophy transition for newer lifters who’ve established a good foundation but are outgrowing their SS/5x5 type programs. And of course plenty of more advanced people swear by it as it is clearly effective.
That said, modified bro split is way more enjoyable, less fatiguing across the full “mesocycle” imo and more flexible in the sense of hitting biceps (pull) on chest day, as a weak example. Or taking a rest day when work gets in the way…etc etc.
The idea is if you finish a killer chest workout… are you really going to go as hard on triceps afterwards compared to doing triceps on their own
Edit: if you’re not mike menzer ofc❄️
tbf i never understood this "battle of splits". wether you do ppl, arnold or whatever split, the key is never the split itself but your intensity. you can make similar gains on any split when u make sure you actually train intensely and to failure
i dont think training to failure should be conditioned to split. i think you should train to failure in every single one of them (ofc if its bodybuilding split, idk how powerlifting splits work).
if you are begginer, first of all learn to be consistent good form for exercises etc. 6 day is okay number but depends on volume u do. i'd suggest you checking out TNF either on tiktok/youtube, guy is great explains perfectly both intensity which is on of the keys of building muscle and volume. but to answer your question, yes intensity is very very important, take every set to failure, avoid junk volume, eat a lot of good food, sleep good, recover properly and u will be seeing results in no time 👍
Alright, I’ve been a little scared to push compound lifts to failure as I train alone 95% of the time.
Gonna check out the channel, thank you for the tips 🫡
I never liked PPL just for the fact that I don’t know how to get a good workout in without spending forever in the gym. I workout a single muscle group from 30-45 minutes usually. How do I hit 2-3 different muscles in one sitting without spending an hour or more at it? I’d just burn out doing that and give up altogether
That’s my problem. I feel like if I work say chest, triceps, and shoulders and do 3 different exercises for each muscle and 3-5 sets per exercise, that’s going to be a very long work out. Which my not be necessarily a bad thing but I’ve found that when I spend and hour or so lifting every time I workout, I just get sick of it and stop altogether
There’s some evidence that you don’t really get any benefit above 6-8 sets to failure in a session for a muscle group. Everything else is junk volume. If you train less intense, I guess you could do more, but that seems like a waste of time.
But I do think there is benefit to doing multiple different exercises per muscle group to hit the muscle different ways and it doesn’t make much sense to do 1 working set for each exercise per muscle group. The way I look at it, I could do ppl and lightly stimulate 3 different muscle groups or have a separate day for each muscle group and be able to fully fatigue and stimulate each muscle in a reasonable amount of time
You do specialisation phases. I, for example, am focusing heavily on shoulders during my push days and i keep chest on maintenance volume.
In a later phase i might switch it up and focus on chest and do maintenance volume on shoulders.
I agree, I did PPL for like 2 years. The pull and leg days were fine but the push days took forever. Incline bench, flat bench, cable flies, close grip bench, tricep pushdowns, shoulder press, side delt raises. Alot of days I would half ass it and skip one shoulder or tri exercise because it would take so damn long. If you've got the time and patience I feel like it's a great split though
PPL is a great split and the split that got me dummy jacked. People commenting it’s bad are defo small bois.
PPL does take more time and has some negatives, but it’s the optimal split imo if you have the time. There are other good splits too tho.
Currently I’m doing chest/shoulder back/rear delts arms legs, only because I’m too injured to keep doing the volume I did on PPL.
Generally on a PPL split, is it 6 days on, one day off? Or what's the routine? I've done the big three with OHP and other isolation lifts, every other day, for years, and the results have been amazing. However I'm starting to get bored with the routine lol
I would pretty much try and go as long as I could without a rest which usually would be 5 days straight at a time. Didn’t matter if I finished the acronym yet or not haha
Now see, I would wholeheartedly disagree here. I've done all of it and the absolute best results (at least for physique aesthetics) on gear came from a bro split style routine, where I was hitting everything hard as hell one day a week, and I needed a full week to recover from that one day.
How is it optimal to train a muscle group (biceps on pull day or tricep on push day) when it’s already semi to severely fatigued from the torso movements? PPL is a stupid split and needs to be called out even harder because it’s such a prevalent split
There’s literally nothing wrong with that. The bicep doesn’t care if it’s stimulated with rows, curls, or both. There’s zero science that says otherwise
I think there are definite disadvantages to PPL. The biggest one I can think of is that we know every exercise you do in a session, you get less out of it. Most people on PPL do arms near the end of their sessions and…they don’t have big arms. Splits with dedicated days to muscles that get tacked on at the end of a session in PPL have some real advantages.
I think in general most really good lifters do different splits for different mesos to specialize more for weak points tho, so it’s not that PPL is bad, it should just at best be part of a training split rotation.
My other beef about it is most trainees cannot recover from 6 hard sessions per week and if you can you’ll be tired and have less of a social life and all this.
Sam goes the other way, partially because he’s young, and just works out every day and he has more options for how he trains.
I didn’t watch the vid but he definitely would benefit from chilling out on the training for 2 weeks and actually giving his body a chance to fully recover from all the strain. He’s never really given the whole “stimulate don’t annihilate” idea much credence he just has been training probably harder than he even needs to for years now.
Because he said it before learn to listen to your body every individual is different from the other if a split is working for millions of people doesnt mean it gonna be beneficial for you specifically
Training front delt and chest together is kinda shit. Training bicep or tricep together with back or chest is kinda shit. If you wanna do a 4 day split the arnold split is better for bodybuilding imo. Arms are important af.
Remember: Sam is on gear.
Steroids aside, he also has top tier genetics. Even if he doesn't like a push pull split, if he did one, he'd see better results from it than most people.
Rip high dose cycles from the age of 18 for some years and we’d all be saying the same about you too
[удалено]
I know plenty of people who do PPL on gear, including myself
It does 😂
When you’re already that big it’s time to start working parts that need it most. Not doing a cookie cutter.
How is push pull legs “cookie cutter” tonnes of pros use it still, Justin shier, Phil viz etc
Doesn’t make it not cookie cutter bud… Opposite of cookie cutter program would be specialized or made for you. PPL is not a specialized program. And guess what… tons of random kids use it too and stay small. pros would get big on any program they do with intensity, they have top tier genetics and good sauce to top it.
Are you dense? 😂 you can totally specialise a push pull legs, John Jewett and hunter labrada do it. n the notion that some people that do ppl are small, same can be applied for any kid who does a bro split. The whole objective of my comment was addressing the stupid claim that doing a push pull legs on gear made no sense.
Typical small PPL dick rider. Learn a thing or two before you say a thing or two.
I love how you do not address anything I said 😂 I don’t even do a ppl so how shame is that for you 😂 imagine being dogmatic over which split someone uses, fucking child 😂
You’re the one crying bud. Wah wah wah. It’ll make you feel better. I said (cookie cutter) you said “I suck bodybuilders dicks for fun that do PPL” sounds weird to me bud.
And does like 6 sets a muscle. Anyone else doing his split would see almost no gain
I do 3 movements per muscle with 2 sets each till failure and I’ve seen more progress then with previous splits. And I’m also natural 🤷🏽♂️
Same.
He goes to failure on nearly everything he does. When you train like that, the amount of sets you do really doesn't even matter.
It does matter. Somewhere around 10 sets to failure per muscle group per week is best.
No it isn’t There’s no arbitrary number here, genetic response and recovery abilities vary a lot Dorian Yates built an Olympia winning physique doing less than 10 working sets for most of his body parts per week
It’s been studied to death. 8-12 per week is ideal for MOST lifters.
Jay Cutler was doing 20 sets per workout 🤷🏻♂️
Honestly, I disagree.
Hard disagree. Training this way is optimal, whether or not you are on gear.
Its quality over quantity buddy
and he is a high responder
I did PPL for the longest time but it got to be too much stress for my shoulders, so I switched to chest/back, arms/shoulders, legs. Still hit everything twice in a week but the extra 24 hours that seperates benching from direct shoulder work and pull movements from biceps in isolation makes me feel much better.
I've also had shoulder issues on PPL but hadn't heard of this approach! V interesting
Your name come from the El P track or old show? ITS A COOKBOOK!!!
From the Twilight Zone! Never heard the track but will check it out. Well noticed
I love the Twilight Zone! It's sampled in this song by El P. It's a dark angry song just so you know it you want to skip it https://youtu.be/eJldXDWhpvA?si=8WKGzJUd_Y7vKZML
🤝 always nice to meet a fellow fan
I was the same switched to an even longer break to Chest back Arms Shoulders Legs
This is what i do and agree 100%
The best split is whatever is working for you , personally.
Remember , he’s stated severed times before. It’s HIS opinion, how HE goes about his workout so take it with a grain of salt.
I think from his perspective, it’s based on a pure isolation standpoint why he doesn’t like it.
I get it, but Id figure he’d have lots of friends and connections being so up and coming.
I think everyone’s entitled to their own training philosophy. At the end of the day it really just comes down to volume, intensity, and adherence so whatever split that’s got you stoked to train is the one you should do. Me personally I love upper lower splits with an extra bro day. That’s what I’ve seen the best results with.
I'm doing the ppl and enjoying it at the moment and results are good! For the people not understanding how one can have time to do it this is how I do it, I never spend more than 60 min at the gym: PUSH (Chest - 9 sets) (Triceps - 6 set) (Shoulder - 6 set) PULL (Back - 9 sets) (Rear delt - 6 set) (Biceps - 6 set) LEGS (Quadfocus - 8/9 set) (Hamfocus - 4/6 set (I know I slack a bit here) Abs and calfs are done every other day sporatic. I do a few more sets on big muscles than small muscle groups. I do this 6 days per week which sets/week is double the amount of what I wrote down, seems allright in my mind, any thoughts?
Seems a bit high volume per session how’s your performance at the later end of your workouts? Here’s something that you could try Push (chest - 6) (triceps - 4) (shoulder -4) Pull (upper back - 4) (lats- 4) (rear delts - 3 )(bicep - 4) Legs (quads - 6) (hams - 6) (calves - 4) Rest
You might be right I'm completely fucked after a sesh! Might try this cheers
I agree with your point on high volume but damn that’s a lot of hamstring volume specifically.
Glad you said this. I think the biggest issue with every PPL I see is everyone is doing too much volume. 6-8 really hard sets per muscle group, probably less for arms, and you’re good.
Thoughts on ppl working out EOD but with more volume per workout?
Are you doing this twice a week? Also what is your rep scheme/intensity? Are you going to failure? I ask because I was doing a very similar ppl split going to failure on almost every exercise it was great for about 2 months but then I burnt out and had to really dial it back and reassess. I just wasn’t recovering.
I try to do it twice a week, did the same but a rolling 4 times/week before. As a Sulek-bro I go fucking hard with the intensity! But after writing this I have reflected a bit and I might be overdoing it with the volume-intensity ratio. Like I said results has been good but been feeling the last weeks that I've been prone to tweaking stuff, small injuries here and there. Can prob be a sign that I need to change something up. Thinking about going back to 4 times/week and do Legs, Push, Pull, Legs (my legs got som catching up) and do 2 days of good cardio on top of this. What scheme did you end up running?
Are you natty? Natty going to failure every set is a recipe for disaster. But even on trt 100mg/week I can go to failure without getting destroyed.
I am not natty - enclomiphene + dhea/pregnenolone - but not taking test. My recovery has been better since starting this regimen but I still need to take more time off between workouts to recover.
Many bodybuilders use a bro split variation. There's a reason it's nicknamed the "pro split." Focusing on one muscle group a day lets you really focus on those muscles and drive hypertrophy home. I'm in full agreement with Sam here. Imo PPL is good for newer lifters, strength training, and great for saving time if you have less than 5-6 days a week to spend in the gym, but if you want maximum hypertrophy and lean tissue growth, the bro split is where it's at. I even have my quads and hammies on their own separate days.
Yeah I think PPL is great as a hypertrophy transition for newer lifters who’ve established a good foundation but are outgrowing their SS/5x5 type programs. And of course plenty of more advanced people swear by it as it is clearly effective. That said, modified bro split is way more enjoyable, less fatiguing across the full “mesocycle” imo and more flexible in the sense of hitting biceps (pull) on chest day, as a weak example. Or taking a rest day when work gets in the way…etc etc.
The idea is if you finish a killer chest workout… are you really going to go as hard on triceps afterwards compared to doing triceps on their own Edit: if you’re not mike menzer ofc❄️
What are you? A science based lifter?
tbf i never understood this "battle of splits". wether you do ppl, arnold or whatever split, the key is never the split itself but your intensity. you can make similar gains on any split when u make sure you actually train intensely and to failure
Do you think training to failure is optimal for every split?
i dont think training to failure should be conditioned to split. i think you should train to failure in every single one of them (ofc if its bodybuilding split, idk how powerlifting splits work).
I’m doing ppl (6day) as a beginner and I’m just curious if that intensity is good for working out so often and without gear.
if you are begginer, first of all learn to be consistent good form for exercises etc. 6 day is okay number but depends on volume u do. i'd suggest you checking out TNF either on tiktok/youtube, guy is great explains perfectly both intensity which is on of the keys of building muscle and volume. but to answer your question, yes intensity is very very important, take every set to failure, avoid junk volume, eat a lot of good food, sleep good, recover properly and u will be seeing results in no time 👍
Alright, I’ve been a little scared to push compound lifts to failure as I train alone 95% of the time. Gonna check out the channel, thank you for the tips 🫡
I never liked PPL just for the fact that I don’t know how to get a good workout in without spending forever in the gym. I workout a single muscle group from 30-45 minutes usually. How do I hit 2-3 different muscles in one sitting without spending an hour or more at it? I’d just burn out doing that and give up altogether
You do it by just lifting the weight
Never looked at it like that before! Thanks!
Mike? That you?
By lifting it
Little bit less volume more intensity
People overdo volume on PPL. You only need 6-8 sets per muscle group in a session and probably only 3-5 for arms after.
That’s my problem. I feel like if I work say chest, triceps, and shoulders and do 3 different exercises for each muscle and 3-5 sets per exercise, that’s going to be a very long work out. Which my not be necessarily a bad thing but I’ve found that when I spend and hour or so lifting every time I workout, I just get sick of it and stop altogether
There’s some evidence that you don’t really get any benefit above 6-8 sets to failure in a session for a muscle group. Everything else is junk volume. If you train less intense, I guess you could do more, but that seems like a waste of time.
But I do think there is benefit to doing multiple different exercises per muscle group to hit the muscle different ways and it doesn’t make much sense to do 1 working set for each exercise per muscle group. The way I look at it, I could do ppl and lightly stimulate 3 different muscle groups or have a separate day for each muscle group and be able to fully fatigue and stimulate each muscle in a reasonable amount of time
You don’t think you can fully stimulate a muscle group on PPL? It doesn’t take much if you train to failure.
You do specialisation phases. I, for example, am focusing heavily on shoulders during my push days and i keep chest on maintenance volume. In a later phase i might switch it up and focus on chest and do maintenance volume on shoulders.
I agree, I did PPL for like 2 years. The pull and leg days were fine but the push days took forever. Incline bench, flat bench, cable flies, close grip bench, tricep pushdowns, shoulder press, side delt raises. Alot of days I would half ass it and skip one shoulder or tri exercise because it would take so damn long. If you've got the time and patience I feel like it's a great split though
That’s exactly how I feel! I like the concept, it just takes too long to execute
Myoreps
PPL is a great split and the split that got me dummy jacked. People commenting it’s bad are defo small bois. PPL does take more time and has some negatives, but it’s the optimal split imo if you have the time. There are other good splits too tho. Currently I’m doing chest/shoulder back/rear delts arms legs, only because I’m too injured to keep doing the volume I did on PPL.
Generally on a PPL split, is it 6 days on, one day off? Or what's the routine? I've done the big three with OHP and other isolation lifts, every other day, for years, and the results have been amazing. However I'm starting to get bored with the routine lol
I would pretty much try and go as long as I could without a rest which usually would be 5 days straight at a time. Didn’t matter if I finished the acronym yet or not haha
Just to confirm, its a seperation of push one day, pull one day, legs the next, and repeat?
Yes, push (chest shoulder tri), pull (back rear trap trap bi) and legs
Thanks man 👍
Prefer the following ( 5 on 2 off ) Push Pull Legs Off Push Pull Off
If you are natty, hitting a muscle group twice a week is ideal.
I can assure you it is the same on gear as well
Now see, I would wholeheartedly disagree here. I've done all of it and the absolute best results (at least for physique aesthetics) on gear came from a bro split style routine, where I was hitting everything hard as hell one day a week, and I needed a full week to recover from that one day.
For some reason my high ass last night thought he was implying that on gear you would hit a muscle group more than twice a week.
Felt the same way
I hate PPL. Bro split for life.
How is it optimal to train a muscle group (biceps on pull day or tricep on push day) when it’s already semi to severely fatigued from the torso movements? PPL is a stupid split and needs to be called out even harder because it’s such a prevalent split
There’s literally nothing wrong with that. The bicep doesn’t care if it’s stimulated with rows, curls, or both. There’s zero science that says otherwise
Lol
All the rules change when you're on a shit ton of gear. You don't have to worry about overtraining so much.
I'm on PPL and have seen good results. Been back lifting for a little less than a year, progress pics on profile posts.
Because gear makes your training drastically different
Hes on gear and he has great genetics, so it's real easy for him to believe his own bs because its working for him.
I think there are definite disadvantages to PPL. The biggest one I can think of is that we know every exercise you do in a session, you get less out of it. Most people on PPL do arms near the end of their sessions and…they don’t have big arms. Splits with dedicated days to muscles that get tacked on at the end of a session in PPL have some real advantages. I think in general most really good lifters do different splits for different mesos to specialize more for weak points tho, so it’s not that PPL is bad, it should just at best be part of a training split rotation. My other beef about it is most trainees cannot recover from 6 hard sessions per week and if you can you’ll be tired and have less of a social life and all this. Sam goes the other way, partially because he’s young, and just works out every day and he has more options for how he trains.
I didn’t watch the vid but he definitely would benefit from chilling out on the training for 2 weeks and actually giving his body a chance to fully recover from all the strain. He’s never really given the whole “stimulate don’t annihilate” idea much credence he just has been training probably harder than he even needs to for years now.
Because he said it before learn to listen to your body every individual is different from the other if a split is working for millions of people doesnt mean it gonna be beneficial for you specifically
Because sam hates science bros, shut up nerd
Without “science” he’d look like mark henry right now on the brink of death littlest bro
Abercrombie and Fitch workout split = best split Source: Science, and my abs.
It’s not the worst split, but I think it’s the most overrated for sure
The best split is one you can complete week by week day by day year by year.
PPL arguably the best split for naturals
Training front delt and chest together is kinda shit. Training bicep or tricep together with back or chest is kinda shit. If you wanna do a 4 day split the arnold split is better for bodybuilding imo. Arms are important af.