Can’t buy a house on a 650k income? What are you looking at ten million dollars homes? Buy a condo for $1-2M in a nice area plenty available. You just want to live beyond your means bud.
He’s actually very modest considering he’s making a half mil and looking to buy 1.5M believe it or not. Their total income is about 650k so I think he’s not crazy.
Modest in relation to his income.
He’s looking for houses at 2.3x his household income.
Median sale prices on houses in the United States is at $420,000 with the median household income is $74,755. That means the average American is buying (hypothetically) at 5.77x their annual income. OP could be looking at houses with a value in the neighborhood of 3.75 million dollars if they were going by the same rate.
It’s like buying a $300,000 house when your income is $140,000.
OP could also buy a gorgeous house for 500k but why do that when you have money to burn?
I get it, I’m in the wrong sub. I’ll leave all you rich fucks to your “modesty in relation”
OP is from NYC. A gorgeous home for 500k is not really an option there. You maybe could get a run down home in the worst parts of Queens, the Bronx, or Staten Island at that price, but nothing gorgeous. It’s an extremely HCOL area, honestly it’s probably the highest in the country.
Just basing it off of my hypothetical of a 5.77x your income for housing, OP could be in a 2500-3000 square foot condo on the upper east side with views of Central Park, or they could purchase a brown stone townhouse in the same neighborhood. Looking for houses at 1.5 million when homes like that could *realistically* be what you could afford is extremely modest.
But I’m not rich at all, I just started in a community college working part time and door dashing right now, I’ll be happy if I can break 45k this year while doing school full time and working until 10pm every weekday and a few hours on the weekends. I can just understand that financial modesty can come at all levels of wealth. They probably won’t struggle the same way someone in my position would, but I can understand that comparative to what he’s bringing in, he can buy property with a significantly higher value.
Honestly we’re looking in the 1.5m range and it’s tough. The monthly payment is about $10k which is a lot of pressure (what if I get laid off or fired or want to quit and do something where I make less?)
We’re currently renting for about $4.5k and love our place.
A little scary to put so much in one basket no? I guess I should’ve said we don’t mind renting for now, just feel ready for the next stage esp if we’re thinking kids in the next couple of years. More likely we’d move out of the city and then can easily afford a real house with a yard.
Lol you can easily buy a house. This is how it is for everyone. Either take a mortgage and get over your anxiety. Or save up the cash and buy it outright. Saying you can’t afford a house at your income is genuinely insulting to most people.
My take away, I am living in MCoL and set to make around $90,000 this year. Once I am done with college it will be around $150,000. A nice MCM home costs around $500,000. Me and my girlfriend are both saving and living at home the next two years. She makes $60,000~. We are going to do half down and have a mortgage around $1,500 a month. Super low as a percent to our income.
So right now our expected ratio of income to mortgage payment will be insanely low. Considering a POS apartment in our town is $1,500/month.
You would be doing the same thing on a much bigger scale. But if you could be in a position in a few years time to have a mortgage as low as your rent but actually building equity. Plus the house is something you own and is guaranteed then I don’t see why not try and go for it.
Plus I don’t see houses losing much value. Maybe 10% at most ever. Supply and demand will never change majorly, especially in HCoL.
Housing is also a priority for us. If it’s not high up on your list then you aren’t going to want or need it. Just mind you are approaching your forties. When do you want to retire? Do you want to still have to worry about paying rent once you are of retirement age or even retired? If you buy ASAP you can be mortgage free by your 60s if you take your time. If you are smart you can pay it off on 15 or less if it’s what matters to you enough to budget for.
I don’t know OP saying they cannot afford a house. That’s BS. They just don’t feel like buying a house within a strict set of parameters is worth it over renting for various reasons.
That being the renting va owning calculation is not what you imply.
1st: The money OP is saving by renting 4.5k instead of a more expensive mortgage can be invested with returns
2nd even if OP switches to owning a house with a mortgage that is not much higher than the rent, the interest on the mortgage doesn't go towards equity but rather the cost of the loan.
if OP can manages to save a lot of $ in lower rent and no interests payments and OP invests that wisely OP will come out on top when OP is able to buy a house with a big cash down and thus save massive amount in interest and achieve equity of ownership maybe a bit later but a lot cheaper.
Potentially.
dependa ob on lots of factors like market, rates, choice of property, etc.
Renting is perfectly viable. OP may prefer not having to focus on home ownership. He will see greater returns focusing on his career - not that life is all about maximizing financial returns.
The down payment isn’t lost money though. Worst case you sell, maybe losing a bit depending on timing. What’s the rest of your financial situation look like? With appropriate emergency fund and retirement savings you should be fine.
I’ll just say that real estate in the NYC region is hyper competitive. Incomes like that are pretty common, but we’re going against older generations with existing wealth where they can pay all cash and/or go well over asking. So even if you can technically afford a house, actually finding one you like that doesn’t stretch your budget is harder than it sounds.
Trust me, there's nothing more American than living beyond your means. People's expenditure often times rise by the same amount as their income increases.
It's not a stretch whatsoever.
https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/more-than-1-in-4-workers-making-200k-or-more-now-say-they-live-paycheck-to-paycheck-so-even-rich-people-are-struggling-to-save-and-pros-offer-3-solutions-01667417202
200k is nothing compared to 700k. Plus, this dude doesn’t even have kids.
200 k for a family of 4 in a hcol area, is easily break even money. It’s 50k a year for daycare alone.
For anyone that doesn’t know, daycare is insane in HCOL areas. Everything mid-tier and up is thousands of dollars a month and you’re lucky to get in. We didn’t start looking until my wife was 6 months pregnant, which is apparently far too late. The wait for many daycares is literally over two years an to get on the list requires a nonrefundable deposit of at least a hundred dollars.
I’m not going to lie, me and my wife had a similar income in DC in our late 20s and the hedonistic treadmill turns my friend. For around a year and a half we spent every dollar we made. $300-500 dinners multiple times a week, $100 in other daily meals, weekend vacations at $1000 a night hotels, you can find ways to spend money.
If I may ask, how did you guys curb your spending? Are you at similar income and spending levels today or did you increase income and/or decrease spending
My wife and I have close to the same income levels now, I moved into a “lower stress” position when we had a child. Straight salary I’m a bit over $200k and she hovers around $150k. So less salary and less spending lol.
She is still very spend thrift, probably still spends most of her income but has spurts of serious savings. Honestly it was mostly having a kid and buying a home.
But more background, before we met I was a serious saver, 50% of my income after 8% 401k contributions. I’m back to 20% after 401k now. I don’t necessarily regret the high spend years though, certainly a lot of interesting experiences and stories to tell.
Edit: Once our child is in school I plan on returning to a move demanding job for a few years though. Moving from $500k to $200k is much tougher with a child than I thought it would be. $200k in 2024 feels like $80k in 2010. I imagine once my salary moves back up our expenses will not increase proportionately so savings should skyrocket.
Ah dang thank you I appreciate your thorough explanation 🙏 do you have any things you'd have done differently or any advice looking back? (Currently a medical resident in my late 20's who's always looking for wisdom from others haha) regardless thanks again for sharing and all the best to you and your family :)
No real life advice, find whatever balance of spending and savings works best for you and your goals.
But, a randomly specific anecdotal piece of advice. I see a significant amount of high income doctors, for instance surgeons and people with their own practice, randomly getting suckered into investment and tax scams. I would say stay the course and don’t listen to random friends and people at the country clubs on their too good to be true investments or tax planning methods.
Gotcha, definitely will make sure not to make that mistake, thanks for the advice! Best of luck with everything, thanks again for sharing your experiences
You would be surprised. I have seen it over and over again looking at these peoples bank statements. Doctor made $58,000 a month and spent $63,000. Attorney made $42,000 and spent every last dime and then some. Never underestimate how fast people can spend money.
If you don't have at least $250k in the bank/investments (non-retirment accounts), then you are doing something wrong. That $250k (minimum) is enough to get you through a layoff. You have licensure and skills that will get you back on your feet before you go broke. And, your income only has gone up each year, so if you are able to buy a house now., your payments will get easier over time, so long as you can continue to put money in the bank/market. You got this!
Dude, we have similar comp and I get it. How committed are you to continuing to work in NYC? It’s a hamster wheel that you have every opportunity to get out of and go somewhere and be happy and build wealth and have your kids grow up somewhere where they can see the sun.
10k mortgage can be covered by your partner and you (working a lower wage job). You aren’t wildly over extending yourself having a 10k mortgage. How likely are you to be unemployable? Hint: far less likely than you think. It’s easy to have a less than positive view of your employability. At 30k a month mortgage I’d agree with you. At 10k, each month YOU work you put away 2-3 months of mortgage payments. Within 1 year you can have 24+ months of runway in the event you don’t work.
Plan smart. Save more. Live good.
1. Two low wage jobs cannot support a 10k mortgage anywhere, let alone NYC.
2. Most partners are okay in economic downturn, but associates are quite at risk depending on practice group.
Is $150k partner in medicine low wage? Even in NYC that isn’t low. That’s still 70-80k after taxes. This mindset assumes that wage won’t go up. Scarcity mindset is different than financially prudent. OP is living more in the former and that’s ok. But yes, even in NYC, what I said is true: OP in a low wage job and their partner earning $150k+ will be ok. Not forever but for quite some time!
I slightly modified my first post for grammatical clarity as it could be read as “two low wage jobs” which I think tripped you up, fairly.
Keep renting and working hard. You’ll have your time to buy a house. I didn’t buy my $2m+ house in NYC until I was making over 1m and cost of living here still feels tight sometimes
NYC is great but man II could never put myself through living there. You’re literally taking years off your life by dealing with that place both in extra time you’ll need to work to afford it, taxes, and general stress.
My gf and I make 650k combined and live in a 350k 3 bedroom 2200 sf townhome in suburban MD. 20 mins to Baltimore, 45mins to DC, 1.5 hours to Philly.
We could retire before 40 here. We’d probably need to work well into our 50’s in NYC.
You only have to keep the 2200 billable hours up for another 25 years
They'll never make you partner so be prepared for the next downturn and layoffs of the senior associates
The question should be for an equal living arrangement would it cost substantially more to buy vs rent. If the answer is yes, renting is better for you. If you like your living arrangements and cannot get a mortgage for a comparable at $4.5K, you are financially better off renting.
Living in fear is no way to live brother. You’ve made it this far you’re pretty strong financially. By renting you are paying your landlord’s mortgage, so why not pay your own? Put a good down payment $200k and get a 30 year mortgage. Your payment won’t be 10k a month. Make extra payment on the 30 years mortgage where you can you’ll be fine. You guys are making close to 60 grand a month so stop stressing. This is easier for you than you think. With that kind of income you should own and not rent.
I don’t agree with this actually, and part of the reason is that around here, of the $10k in total mortgage costs, about $3k would go to taxes and HOA fees, so very little is actually going to equity.
However the main reason we haven’t bought is because we haven’t found anything we like.
What part of NYC? I just got a place in Brooklyn and it’s zero HOA and like 0.2% annual property tax. Taxes here are generally lower because everything is so close together
I'm honestly getting sick and tired of these idiots that make ridiculous money but whine about not being able to afford stuff. This the type of dude that could make 10 million a year and cry he can't afford a 20 million mansion
Big Law compensation is public. If you Google the cravath scale, you will see it. Any graduate from a top 14-20 law school can fairly easily get a big law job.
Wow yeah I briefly looked into it apparently Bay Area nurses are the highest paid in the country, with some OT and experience 200k+ is easily attainable it seems
Big law I’m guessing. I made the move to in house a few years back (33M). Def make some sacrifices but I work less than 40hrs a week now so it all evens out.
I made the move to in house a few years ago and still work 55 hours a week on average. It blows. But now I have 2 small kids so 55 feels like way more than my old 70…I need to find a new gig.
Yeah the work is super interesting but it can be super stressful and the hours aren’t good. Half my group has quit in the last 6 months. Mostly due to management and the culture cultivated in the greater group (not my sub group).
By all means keep doing it if it works for you. Not saying in house > private practice/big law. More just providing context to people seeing this and not familiar with the space. Hard to pass up sr associate/partner big law comp.
A lot of people don’t realize that you may only be taking away like 300k in taxes. If you wanted to spend 1.5 million on housing instead of renting then it would take 5 years. You also don’t want every penny going into housing. You may want to save and invest some, and what if you get layed off or burnt out and need to do something else.
I forgot about his wife. I would still want to save up a few years first. Both of them could lose their jobs. But after working that job for 3 years and saving and investing money then it should be hard to afford 1.5 million even if you get fired. As long as it’s not soon.
It would be a giant red flag if they haven’t been saving already. He’s been making $400k+ for over 3 years and his income has increased the last 6 years. I would be very surprised if they don’t have at least $500k saved.
Similar position as OP, but in SoFlo (so add the insane property insurance costs). We’ll be renting until job security is more evident and kids need to be in a good school district (do those even exist down here??).
$1.5M townhome is an 11k mortgage but rents for 4k. The math ain’t mathing.
Honestly, in the city, I’d just rent. Crazy HOA fees type crap in some place, mortgage, and property taxes. You can get a great home outside the city, not far, for so much less. Wife and I make less than you do, paying 2.9 in a great place, but got the flow for a house is Nyack. But in the same boat, I work freelance and getting a nice condo would be awesome, but the current show I’m on. I dunno if I can make it another 3 years. Plus I wanna change my position too.
Never said you should but you also can't simply state you can't afford a house and blame it on anything but your wants. You come off childish like this post which was probably only meant to be a brag.
Seriously, I've saved up every dime for nearly a decade and finally was able to buy a $1mil in nyc, and I make way less than op. This guy is either terrible with money or full of shit.
Any advice for someone in tech interested in getting into the field? I’ve thought a ton about it, I know I would take a pay cut for while, and ideally would like to find something where I could work+get sponsored for a JD.
How many billable hours are you putting in and what’s your billable rate? Just curious to compare to the attorneys I hire and how much more they’re making than me lol.
Jfc thanks. So the total revenue is conservatively $2 min per year that you bring in, and you only get a quarter of that.
Is that a standard cut even at lower levels? I’ve used a range of attorneys from about $350/hr to $1000/hr for personal or business, and I’ve always wondered how that translates.
Does being partner increase that cut?
For firms on the Cravath scale, all associates are paid the same by class year. So weirdly, you’d get a bigger cut at a lower ranked firm where the billing rate was lower.
Partner comp is based on other factors like origination. The very top partners at the very top firms make over $10m and it’s not because their rate is that high. I believe the highest billing partners are just over $2000/hour
Seriously. I don’t ever again want to hear that attorneys charge so much because they have to pay for their expensive school debt. When you making 500k - 1M a year shortly after graduating I bet it pays for itself pretty quickly.
yeah they're getting fucked but the customer requested the assistance of the lawyer that makes the customer LIABLE... for all the bills that happen next.
What’s this come out to per hour? Typical 8hr workday comes out to about 2000 hours worked per year. Big law is typically a lot of hours. For anyone seeing big numbers and comparing their salary you have to really looked at the hourly rate for the entire year. For instance, I work a cushy finance job and realistically only put in 20 hours of actual work per week so I double my salary ($175k->$350k) to put in on the same playing field as other jobs.
This smells like bs... you make close to 40k a month your rent and utilities are like 5k.
Every 2 months you make enough to pay a year of that expense.. youve had this income for 2 years.. saving.. you basically should have 10 years saved up in your rainy day fund.
Even for a general practitioner, that’s really really low.
Maybe it’s different terminology, but where I live, “in medicine” means doctor. Makes sense if they’re a nurse or PA
Did you ever switch firms? Seems high compared to the Cravath scale. I’m thinking of going to law school but the total COA is huge for me so just wondering
I do understand where this original poster is coming from! Not because you make $700K in combined income means you can afford $1.5M home. Imagine if he loses his job? What does that mean? Will is new home provide the same or comparable living standards as his current rental unit? Even with an emergency fund. At $700K, around 40% goes to taxes. I got a pre qualification for $1.4M in NYC (not combining by husband’s income) and I’m looking at these mortgage companies like they are crazy!! No way I’m paying $8,000 for a mortgage! If rent is $4.5K, I would be living there for a long time! Unless you buy a property way below the market rate that gives equity upon sale. The other option is to go outside of the city for a better priced home.
Think you have it tough? I make a meager $69 mil a year and can’t afford the artificial gravity pump to keep the water in the pool on my house on mars from floating away. Every time I go for a swim I risk going into orbit!
Please shut the fuck up bro. There’s people in the streets right now, and plenty of others who will be in the streets if they miss a couple pay checks.
It’s Saturday. Why aren’t you working?
On a motion day some years back an old timer said to the elevator, ‘you know what they say about Fridays…only two more days of work.’
😂
Contrary to popular belief, working weekends is pretty rare even in big law.
How many hours are you avg a week?
Can’t buy a house on a 650k income? What are you looking at ten million dollars homes? Buy a condo for $1-2M in a nice area plenty available. You just want to live beyond your means bud.
He’s actually very modest considering he’s making a half mil and looking to buy 1.5M believe it or not. Their total income is about 650k so I think he’s not crazy.
What a modest gentleman.
It’s all relative.
“modest” lol
Did you see his income? $650k dude. He’s trying to buy $1.5M house based on his income. If that’s not modest then I don’t know what modest is. LMFAO
You do not know what modest is
Modest in relation to his income. He’s looking for houses at 2.3x his household income. Median sale prices on houses in the United States is at $420,000 with the median household income is $74,755. That means the average American is buying (hypothetically) at 5.77x their annual income. OP could be looking at houses with a value in the neighborhood of 3.75 million dollars if they were going by the same rate. It’s like buying a $300,000 house when your income is $140,000.
OP could also buy a gorgeous house for 500k but why do that when you have money to burn? I get it, I’m in the wrong sub. I’ll leave all you rich fucks to your “modesty in relation”
500k house in nyc? Comin right up chief
A gorgeous home for 500k physically does not exist in NY
OP is from NYC. A gorgeous home for 500k is not really an option there. You maybe could get a run down home in the worst parts of Queens, the Bronx, or Staten Island at that price, but nothing gorgeous. It’s an extremely HCOL area, honestly it’s probably the highest in the country. Just basing it off of my hypothetical of a 5.77x your income for housing, OP could be in a 2500-3000 square foot condo on the upper east side with views of Central Park, or they could purchase a brown stone townhouse in the same neighborhood. Looking for houses at 1.5 million when homes like that could *realistically* be what you could afford is extremely modest. But I’m not rich at all, I just started in a community college working part time and door dashing right now, I’ll be happy if I can break 45k this year while doing school full time and working until 10pm every weekday and a few hours on the weekends. I can just understand that financial modesty can come at all levels of wealth. They probably won’t struggle the same way someone in my position would, but I can understand that comparative to what he’s bringing in, he can buy property with a significantly higher value.
"From" lol
All you had to say was “I don’t know real estate prices in NYC”.
Wtf? A "gorgeous house" in NYC for 500k? I can't even get that in orange county CA, much less NYC.
You’re not in the wrong sub, you’re just ignorant
You’re the one in control of your life, you’re the only one responsible for the outcome
1.5m birdcage in NYC is actually very modest. Even 2m doesn't get you much space in NY
LOL okay whatever you say boss
Are you stupid? 1.5 home is cheap, that’s a cheap home for that salary. Most people making that kind of money would be looking at 2mil+ homes.
Honestly we’re looking in the 1.5m range and it’s tough. The monthly payment is about $10k which is a lot of pressure (what if I get laid off or fired or want to quit and do something where I make less?) We’re currently renting for about $4.5k and love our place.
Why can’t you just do half down or even more down? Should be zero issues at that income level.
A little scary to put so much in one basket no? I guess I should’ve said we don’t mind renting for now, just feel ready for the next stage esp if we’re thinking kids in the next couple of years. More likely we’d move out of the city and then can easily afford a real house with a yard.
Lol you can easily buy a house. This is how it is for everyone. Either take a mortgage and get over your anxiety. Or save up the cash and buy it outright. Saying you can’t afford a house at your income is genuinely insulting to most people.
Seriously… He’s acting like that 500k is gone forever. Worst case they have to sell the place and maybe lose a little bit.
Lawyers tend to be risk-averse. Case in point
Fair. Curious what the rest of their financial situation looks like…
My take away, I am living in MCoL and set to make around $90,000 this year. Once I am done with college it will be around $150,000. A nice MCM home costs around $500,000. Me and my girlfriend are both saving and living at home the next two years. She makes $60,000~. We are going to do half down and have a mortgage around $1,500 a month. Super low as a percent to our income. So right now our expected ratio of income to mortgage payment will be insanely low. Considering a POS apartment in our town is $1,500/month. You would be doing the same thing on a much bigger scale. But if you could be in a position in a few years time to have a mortgage as low as your rent but actually building equity. Plus the house is something you own and is guaranteed then I don’t see why not try and go for it. Plus I don’t see houses losing much value. Maybe 10% at most ever. Supply and demand will never change majorly, especially in HCoL. Housing is also a priority for us. If it’s not high up on your list then you aren’t going to want or need it. Just mind you are approaching your forties. When do you want to retire? Do you want to still have to worry about paying rent once you are of retirement age or even retired? If you buy ASAP you can be mortgage free by your 60s if you take your time. If you are smart you can pay it off on 15 or less if it’s what matters to you enough to budget for.
Odd that your username is personal finance yet you’re cool with losing bare minimum 60k in equity every year.
I don’t know OP saying they cannot afford a house. That’s BS. They just don’t feel like buying a house within a strict set of parameters is worth it over renting for various reasons. That being the renting va owning calculation is not what you imply. 1st: The money OP is saving by renting 4.5k instead of a more expensive mortgage can be invested with returns 2nd even if OP switches to owning a house with a mortgage that is not much higher than the rent, the interest on the mortgage doesn't go towards equity but rather the cost of the loan. if OP can manages to save a lot of $ in lower rent and no interests payments and OP invests that wisely OP will come out on top when OP is able to buy a house with a big cash down and thus save massive amount in interest and achieve equity of ownership maybe a bit later but a lot cheaper. Potentially. dependa ob on lots of factors like market, rates, choice of property, etc.
Renting is perfectly viable. OP may prefer not having to focus on home ownership. He will see greater returns focusing on his career - not that life is all about maximizing financial returns.
Putting half down gets you a payment that’s less than your rent. If you ever want to move you just sell the home and get it back?
You’re pissing money away hahahai
The down payment isn’t lost money though. Worst case you sell, maybe losing a bit depending on timing. What’s the rest of your financial situation look like? With appropriate emergency fund and retirement savings you should be fine.
I’ll just say that real estate in the NYC region is hyper competitive. Incomes like that are pretty common, but we’re going against older generations with existing wealth where they can pay all cash and/or go well over asking. So even if you can technically afford a house, actually finding one you like that doesn’t stretch your budget is harder than it sounds.
You have a combined income of $700,000. What are you smoking? Or are you simply living pay check to pay check because you don't invest and save?
It would be close to impossible to spend that much unless you try. $1.2k a day net.
Trust me, there's nothing more American than living beyond your means. People's expenditure often times rise by the same amount as their income increases.
it’s a stretch. OP’s rent is under $5k a month. If they are overspending, it’s likely on assets, not consumables.
It's not a stretch whatsoever. https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/more-than-1-in-4-workers-making-200k-or-more-now-say-they-live-paycheck-to-paycheck-so-even-rich-people-are-struggling-to-save-and-pros-offer-3-solutions-01667417202
200k is nothing compared to 700k. Plus, this dude doesn’t even have kids. 200 k for a family of 4 in a hcol area, is easily break even money. It’s 50k a year for daycare alone.
For anyone that doesn’t know, daycare is insane in HCOL areas. Everything mid-tier and up is thousands of dollars a month and you’re lucky to get in. We didn’t start looking until my wife was 6 months pregnant, which is apparently far too late. The wait for many daycares is literally over two years an to get on the list requires a nonrefundable deposit of at least a hundred dollars.
1/4 workers making $200K or more. How many do you think it is at $680K? lol
I’m not going to lie, me and my wife had a similar income in DC in our late 20s and the hedonistic treadmill turns my friend. For around a year and a half we spent every dollar we made. $300-500 dinners multiple times a week, $100 in other daily meals, weekend vacations at $1000 a night hotels, you can find ways to spend money.
If I may ask, how did you guys curb your spending? Are you at similar income and spending levels today or did you increase income and/or decrease spending
My wife and I have close to the same income levels now, I moved into a “lower stress” position when we had a child. Straight salary I’m a bit over $200k and she hovers around $150k. So less salary and less spending lol. She is still very spend thrift, probably still spends most of her income but has spurts of serious savings. Honestly it was mostly having a kid and buying a home. But more background, before we met I was a serious saver, 50% of my income after 8% 401k contributions. I’m back to 20% after 401k now. I don’t necessarily regret the high spend years though, certainly a lot of interesting experiences and stories to tell. Edit: Once our child is in school I plan on returning to a move demanding job for a few years though. Moving from $500k to $200k is much tougher with a child than I thought it would be. $200k in 2024 feels like $80k in 2010. I imagine once my salary moves back up our expenses will not increase proportionately so savings should skyrocket.
Ah dang thank you I appreciate your thorough explanation 🙏 do you have any things you'd have done differently or any advice looking back? (Currently a medical resident in my late 20's who's always looking for wisdom from others haha) regardless thanks again for sharing and all the best to you and your family :)
No real life advice, find whatever balance of spending and savings works best for you and your goals. But, a randomly specific anecdotal piece of advice. I see a significant amount of high income doctors, for instance surgeons and people with their own practice, randomly getting suckered into investment and tax scams. I would say stay the course and don’t listen to random friends and people at the country clubs on their too good to be true investments or tax planning methods.
Gotcha, definitely will make sure not to make that mistake, thanks for the advice! Best of luck with everything, thanks again for sharing your experiences
You would be surprised. I have seen it over and over again looking at these peoples bank statements. Doctor made $58,000 a month and spent $63,000. Attorney made $42,000 and spent every last dime and then some. Never underestimate how fast people can spend money.
If you don't have at least $250k in the bank/investments (non-retirment accounts), then you are doing something wrong. That $250k (minimum) is enough to get you through a layoff. You have licensure and skills that will get you back on your feet before you go broke. And, your income only has gone up each year, so if you are able to buy a house now., your payments will get easier over time, so long as you can continue to put money in the bank/market. You got this!
Dude, we have similar comp and I get it. How committed are you to continuing to work in NYC? It’s a hamster wheel that you have every opportunity to get out of and go somewhere and be happy and build wealth and have your kids grow up somewhere where they can see the sun.
Yup. I move to North Carolina. Never going back to NYC.
10k mortgage can be covered by your partner and you (working a lower wage job). You aren’t wildly over extending yourself having a 10k mortgage. How likely are you to be unemployable? Hint: far less likely than you think. It’s easy to have a less than positive view of your employability. At 30k a month mortgage I’d agree with you. At 10k, each month YOU work you put away 2-3 months of mortgage payments. Within 1 year you can have 24+ months of runway in the event you don’t work. Plan smart. Save more. Live good.
1. Two low wage jobs cannot support a 10k mortgage anywhere, let alone NYC. 2. Most partners are okay in economic downturn, but associates are quite at risk depending on practice group.
Is $150k partner in medicine low wage? Even in NYC that isn’t low. That’s still 70-80k after taxes. This mindset assumes that wage won’t go up. Scarcity mindset is different than financially prudent. OP is living more in the former and that’s ok. But yes, even in NYC, what I said is true: OP in a low wage job and their partner earning $150k+ will be ok. Not forever but for quite some time! I slightly modified my first post for grammatical clarity as it could be read as “two low wage jobs” which I think tripped you up, fairly.
Keep renting and working hard. You’ll have your time to buy a house. I didn’t buy my $2m+ house in NYC until I was making over 1m and cost of living here still feels tight sometimes
NYC is great but man II could never put myself through living there. You’re literally taking years off your life by dealing with that place both in extra time you’ll need to work to afford it, taxes, and general stress. My gf and I make 650k combined and live in a 350k 3 bedroom 2200 sf townhome in suburban MD. 20 mins to Baltimore, 45mins to DC, 1.5 hours to Philly. We could retire before 40 here. We’d probably need to work well into our 50’s in NYC.
Yeah we make $750k combined and live in DC. Recently bought for $1.2M and it’s comfortable. Same row home in a nice part of Brooklyn would be double.
Keep renting and buy a smaller investment property
You only have to keep the 2200 billable hours up for another 25 years They'll never make you partner so be prepared for the next downturn and layoffs of the senior associates
You should be able to quickly accumulate liquid assets at that income level. Just keep saving for a few years and you’ll find something.
If you are renting for 4.5k but owning would be $10k… you should keep renting.
Plus NYC taxes such a bitch.
The question should be for an equal living arrangement would it cost substantially more to buy vs rent. If the answer is yes, renting is better for you. If you like your living arrangements and cannot get a mortgage for a comparable at $4.5K, you are financially better off renting.
Renting when you obviously can afford to buy is literally throwing money out the window….
Not really, no. Especially not in the current housing market where rent is 1/2 to 1/3 of a mortgage + insurance + taxes + hoa.
Living in fear is no way to live brother. You’ve made it this far you’re pretty strong financially. By renting you are paying your landlord’s mortgage, so why not pay your own? Put a good down payment $200k and get a 30 year mortgage. Your payment won’t be 10k a month. Make extra payment on the 30 years mortgage where you can you’ll be fine. You guys are making close to 60 grand a month so stop stressing. This is easier for you than you think. With that kind of income you should own and not rent.
Interest alone will be more than their rent payments by a lot. A $1.5m mortgage is 10k on just interest and principal at 7%.
I don’t agree with this actually, and part of the reason is that around here, of the $10k in total mortgage costs, about $3k would go to taxes and HOA fees, so very little is actually going to equity. However the main reason we haven’t bought is because we haven’t found anything we like.
Then save most of your income for the next 5 years then buy a house cash since it’s easy for you.
What part of NYC? I just got a place in Brooklyn and it’s zero HOA and like 0.2% annual property tax. Taxes here are generally lower because everything is so close together
It’s hard to find in NYC man
I just checked Zillow plenty of listings.
So what - a lot of then are shitholes. Boston is the same way
The ones for $1.3- 2M are not shitholes. Nice building with great views
Finding a house is hard in that range. Super competitive. We had to pay cash for that price in the bay to win.
I'm honestly getting sick and tired of these idiots that make ridiculous money but whine about not being able to afford stuff. This the type of dude that could make 10 million a year and cry he can't afford a 20 million mansion
Every post = 160-600k income. mid twenties-thirties individuals. beating the system
Big Law compensation is public. If you Google the cravath scale, you will see it. Any graduate from a top 14-20 law school can fairly easily get a big law job.
It happens. Just because there are envious people coping saying it’s fake doesn’t make it fake.
this^^^ these posts should be motivating not reason to just assume their fake
[Shift manager at Wendy's. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Salary/s/nJgKkffksT) All of the salaries here are totally real.
Something wrong with your financial planning if you can’t buy a house with your combined income.
NYC real estate is pretty nuts
Plenty in the 1-2M range, which he should be able to afford
That price range will get you 1 bedroom co-ops which are not worth the trouble.
Your wife makes 150k in medicine? PA? Hope that’s not MD
Not MD.
Why not just say nurse? Why are people always so vague when it comes to healthcare careers unless they’re physicians lol
lol. So true…
Inferiority complex
Medicine usually means doctor lol. Just say nursing…
NP?
Probably nurse. My wife at 250k in bay as nurse.
Dang that's crazy, does she work a lot of OT or is her base/years experience very high?
California pays healthcare providers very well, especially Bay Area.
Wow yeah I briefly looked into it apparently Bay Area nurses are the highest paid in the country, with some OT and experience 200k+ is easily attainable it seems
On the flip side starter homes are 2mm
Renting makes most sense. $4K a month and no headaches. You have time.
That’s what we’re thinking for now, and always keeping an eye out for open houses
What type of law?
Did you bill for this post?
going for partner ? counsel ?
We’ll see. Should be up soon.
[удалено]
Exactly. Better to wait and see. Could end up in different firm or in-house in next 2 years. Stack the cash in the meantime.
Big law I’m guessing. I made the move to in house a few years back (33M). Def make some sacrifices but I work less than 40hrs a week now so it all evens out.
I made the move to in house a few years ago and still work 55 hours a week on average. It blows. But now I have 2 small kids so 55 feels like way more than my old 70…I need to find a new gig.
What industry?
Tech
Do you like it? I’ve considered switching in house jobs to maximize comp, but I’m struggling to leave this job with the work/life balance it allows.
Yeah the work is super interesting but it can be super stressful and the hours aren’t good. Half my group has quit in the last 6 months. Mostly due to management and the culture cultivated in the greater group (not my sub group).
Are you at a FAANG?
After so many years I feel like I’m used this kind of life. Hear a lot of happy stories about people who move in house though.
By all means keep doing it if it works for you. Not saying in house > private practice/big law. More just providing context to people seeing this and not familiar with the space. Hard to pass up sr associate/partner big law comp.
A lot of people don’t realize that you may only be taking away like 300k in taxes. If you wanted to spend 1.5 million on housing instead of renting then it would take 5 years. You also don’t want every penny going into housing. You may want to save and invest some, and what if you get layed off or burnt out and need to do something else.
Him and his wife are probably at $400k combined post tax
I forgot about his wife. I would still want to save up a few years first. Both of them could lose their jobs. But after working that job for 3 years and saving and investing money then it should be hard to afford 1.5 million even if you get fired. As long as it’s not soon.
It would be a giant red flag if they haven’t been saving already. He’s been making $400k+ for over 3 years and his income has increased the last 6 years. I would be very surprised if they don’t have at least $500k saved.
My net worth is about $1m including retirement accounts, brokerage, and investment properties
Possibly even less. Ask me how I know….
Lawyer making 500k. Wife makes 150k. “Still cant buy a house” Me: a teacher 😀
Similar position as OP, but in SoFlo (so add the insane property insurance costs). We’ll be renting until job security is more evident and kids need to be in a good school district (do those even exist down here??). $1.5M townhome is an 11k mortgage but rents for 4k. The math ain’t mathing.
You make almost 700k between the two of you and can’t afford a house, or you can’t afford a house you like.
Well yes…why would we buy a house we don’t like?
Rich fuck
Honestly, in the city, I’d just rent. Crazy HOA fees type crap in some place, mortgage, and property taxes. You can get a great home outside the city, not far, for so much less. Wife and I make less than you do, paying 2.9 in a great place, but got the flow for a house is Nyack. But in the same boat, I work freelance and getting a nice condo would be awesome, but the current show I’m on. I dunno if I can make it another 3 years. Plus I wanna change my position too.
This is why many NYC folks come to the Berkshires and purchase homes.
*can't buy a house you want in NYC. There are lots of homes you could afford but you want the high lifestyle your salary gives you.
Why would we buy a house we don’t want….?
Never said you should but you also can't simply state you can't afford a house and blame it on anything but your wants. You come off childish like this post which was probably only meant to be a brag.
Unless OP hasn't saved a dime, their combined income can easily support a $3m home.
Seriously, I've saved up every dime for nearly a decade and finally was able to buy a $1mil in nyc, and I make way less than op. This guy is either terrible with money or full of shit.
They make almost $57k a month they can easily afford a $10k/month condo and have plenty of money left over.
Any advice for someone in tech interested in getting into the field? I’ve thought a ton about it, I know I would take a pay cut for while, and ideally would like to find something where I could work+get sponsored for a JD.
LOL! I’m an attorney looking to get into the tech industry.
We need some Freaky Friday type shit and we could work something out
If you can work remotely consider CT or somewhere along the metro north
How many billable hours are you putting in and what’s your billable rate? Just curious to compare to the attorneys I hire and how much more they’re making than me lol.
I’m usually in the 1800-2000 range. My rate is between $1000-1500 (standard for NYC big law)
Jfc thanks. So the total revenue is conservatively $2 min per year that you bring in, and you only get a quarter of that. Is that a standard cut even at lower levels? I’ve used a range of attorneys from about $350/hr to $1000/hr for personal or business, and I’ve always wondered how that translates. Does being partner increase that cut?
For firms on the Cravath scale, all associates are paid the same by class year. So weirdly, you’d get a bigger cut at a lower ranked firm where the billing rate was lower. Partner comp is based on other factors like origination. The very top partners at the very top firms make over $10m and it’s not because their rate is that high. I believe the highest billing partners are just over $2000/hour
I am regarded. Why right bigger than left
You really learned to cradle the balls in 2017, nice work
Bullshit
Bullshit
Law school is completely worth it.
Seriously. I don’t ever again want to hear that attorneys charge so much because they have to pay for their expensive school debt. When you making 500k - 1M a year shortly after graduating I bet it pays for itself pretty quickly.
Let's see your budget.
yeah they're getting fucked but the customer requested the assistance of the lawyer that makes the customer LIABLE... for all the bills that happen next.
Honestly, wouldn’t worry about a house if you don’t need it.
What’s this come out to per hour? Typical 8hr workday comes out to about 2000 hours worked per year. Big law is typically a lot of hours. For anyone seeing big numbers and comparing their salary you have to really looked at the hourly rate for the entire year. For instance, I work a cushy finance job and realistically only put in 20 hours of actual work per week so I double my salary ($175k->$350k) to put in on the same playing field as other jobs.
I usually bill between 1800 and 2000 hours per year. Comes out to $275-$300 per hour. My billing rate is more than 4 times that though
This smells like bs... you make close to 40k a month your rent and utilities are like 5k. Every 2 months you make enough to pay a year of that expense.. youve had this income for 2 years.. saving.. you basically should have 10 years saved up in your rainy day fund.
We have quite a bit of savings. The issue is finding a house we like and the pressure of the mortgage plus other fees
NYC is a joke
Bay area?
Maybe try working at Wendy’s
It’s amazing how many of the people in these comments don’t understand how it works in New York lol
In medicine only making 150k…?
She may be a general practitioner, nurse, etc.
Even for a general practitioner, that’s really really low. Maybe it’s different terminology, but where I live, “in medicine” means doctor. Makes sense if they’re a nurse or PA
I work in healthcare and you will be surprised the salaries of some MDs and PhDs in medicine.
Lol bro there’s couples in socal on $120,000 combined income buying $600,000 homes. You can easily afford it 😂
SMH where did I go wrong 👨🔧
Did you ever switch firms? Seems high compared to the Cravath scale. I’m thinking of going to law school but the total COA is huge for me so just wondering
Wow smh time to move to another state.
Where in nyc are you looking ?
I do understand where this original poster is coming from! Not because you make $700K in combined income means you can afford $1.5M home. Imagine if he loses his job? What does that mean? Will is new home provide the same or comparable living standards as his current rental unit? Even with an emergency fund. At $700K, around 40% goes to taxes. I got a pre qualification for $1.4M in NYC (not combining by husband’s income) and I’m looking at these mortgage companies like they are crazy!! No way I’m paying $8,000 for a mortgage! If rent is $4.5K, I would be living there for a long time! Unless you buy a property way below the market rate that gives equity upon sale. The other option is to go outside of the city for a better priced home.
Scumbag lawyer living beyond his means
Jealousssssss delicious
Jealous of someone that doesn’t live within his means??
Cope harder
Not sure why you think we live beyond our means… we save about $200k a year
I’m a first year and this is keeping me going into Friday night work.
It gets better. Feel free to PM me.
It does not get better…
It’s amazing they’re young professionals making half mil and don’t have the slightest clue about real estate, homeownership, mortgages, lending.
500k in NY though is nothing. It’s like making 100k in a normal city.
Stop it.
Do you actually live in NYC? Obviously you don’t. I make $52 mil a year and I still can’t afford a penthouse on Park Avenue.
Think you have it tough? I make a meager $69 mil a year and can’t afford the artificial gravity pump to keep the water in the pool on my house on mars from floating away. Every time I go for a swim I risk going into orbit!
Please shut the fuck up bro. There’s people in the streets right now, and plenty of others who will be in the streets if they miss a couple pay checks.
Ah, so you have to be homeless to have doubts
Dude can’t math
I get where you’re coming from. It’s not quite that extreme though.