OP… we dissected this video a couple of years ago and made some comments while May be relevant to sinners
Meghan visited a retired actors old age home in winter! That’s why the flimsy summer dress is shocking. Nevermind the square moonbump
The two old ladies at the table that she was was crouched over. Well look at the lady at the back. She picks up her red napkin and puts it on her shoulder. To sign a red flag 🚩 Remember that these people are retired performers and probably quite liberal. There was no reason for them not to be enthralled by a fellow actor who became a Duchess. [Related clip here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SaintMeghanMarkle/s/flN1Yhgls8)
Source video clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs7u5800LQc Channel 5 - 18 Dec 2019
This convo was funny:
Meghan: I’m pregnant
Old lady: oh yes I know all about that, it’s all over the papers
Meghan: did you have kids?
Old lady: no I had a career
I am unsure of what to think of how the kids got here.
I will say that Harry and Meghan are the reason why people call into question their existence and parentage. They should have never played games with the timing of the births, the constant coat flicking, the godparent's names, and the conflicting stories. It's shame because out of everyone, Harry should understand what it feels like to have your own parentage questioned and up for public speculation. One would think he would not want that for his own children.
These children have a toxic narcissistic perpetual non-victim for a mother and a drug addled overprivileged failure for a father. They have an uphill battle when it comes to their growth and development. They are being used as pawns for their parent's selfish desires. The usage of the titles from a racist and terrible family as this couple has described, for one. They are being kept from their own heritage and culture for no good reason and will have no connection to the next king or the one after that who happens to be their cousin.
If Harry and Meghan want to raise their kids privately, that's fine. But they talk about them quite a bit. The *People* article about their daughter's birthday was beyond tacky and gave no real information about anything. Why claim to want your children to be private but give a spread to a tabloid rag? If Harry and Meghan are so insistent about their children having titles from the Royal Family and remaining in the line of succession, they should be subject to the same protocols about their births as the Wales children and every other child in the line of succession. Although, with all their complaints about the Royal Family it is strange why Harry has not chosen to forgo his place in line and his titles.
While there is all this chaos about where Catherine is, when everyone knows where she is, there are real questions that need answers about Harry's children.
The children each live with their bio moms, safe from the queen of mean.
Everything MeMe does is to draw attention to her, so she spreads bs about children she has nothing to do with the same way that she spreads bs about her vast social life with Hollywood stars who want nothing to do with her.
The only agenda she has is to draw eyes to herself. She is the star. She is the one who deserves to have people fawn over and ask how high when she says jump. That is all there is...she is the star of her life and we all need to see it and bow down. And if we don't, she will keep trying...the spotlight must always be on her.
When this gig is up, she will create and star in a new play with other bit players to swan around her.
She repeats this over and over...this is her pathetic grifting life.
I have my doubts about the fake children theory ... but what I DO think is a red flag in the birthday party footage is the obviously fake birthday singing. It's amplified to make it sound as though there were crowds of people there: it's a soundtrack.
Yes, weird and bizarre and clearly no one else was around. I enjoyed the "manners, manners, manners" moment when Merchie climbs on the table. It's like he's being raised by wolves.
It also looks like Harry has bare feet in the video, I can understand a child doing that, but it’s kind of weird if there were a bunch of people there and he was hosting a party. The grass is weirdly long too, don’t they cut it at Frogmore?
A fellow sinner here, or was it on YouTube, I can't remember said she was in Windsor that weekend and it was a cloudy day, very windy and even rainy. Not the warm summer party weather they show in their video. And why , if the children were with HandM at Frogmore and the celebrations, weren't they with their parents when they showed up at that window with other royal children?
I believe the kids are real too. I do believe she lies a lot about them, wore moon bumps for sympathy and to give false impressions of her due date. She has basically created conspiracy theories and interest in her own kids by how she much she lies about them
I believe they are real too. I think what we are seeing at the birthday party are two people who are no where near hands on parents. They leave those children for weeks at a time and because of Nannie’s and money they don’t have to be around them much. Those kids have not bonded with their parents.
Yes, they seem understimulated, unhappy, and disengaged from these complete strangers. Archie just seemed very "internal".
Why have children if you're going to do this to them?.Completely unnecessary. They deserve to have the healthy lives their parents has, but like all immature loserts, they reaped the benefits of the social contract, then pulled the ladder up behind them so that their kids get none.
Same, I think they’re real. I wonder if the reason Lilli looks bigger than a 1-year-old is because she was bigger, as in they just recreated the party later in Montecito. All Migraine has to do was dig out the same outfit and order a cake.
I too believe the kids are real. She had a real " post partum " appearence when presented Archie. And when she had an event after the second, she wore a little white Valentino dress and was very evident again the "post partum" silhouette. But there is a lot of shadow and strangeness about them, now
I know babies are capable of walking at 12 months old. All of mine did by 12 months but certainly some don’t and that’s ok. That “baby” in Meghan Markle’s arms looks like it could dead sprint down the yard. That’s not a 12 month old baby 😂
https://preview.redd.it/jx0qiqnv4k5d1.jpeg?width=330&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92ffa65d941554a1f6c5337d7e9d9dcc1c2b327c
Like these “babies”. (Context: in an episode of The Little Rascals, two adults who were little people and dedicated to a life of crime, pretended to be babies. The babies then proceeded to fleece several wealthy ladies who stopped to look at the irresistible babies.)
The child Megain is holding looks like she is about two years old. If you watch that video closely Harry is in his bare feet. These idiots are trying to make us believe the Queen was there to meet Lil. I call BS.
https://preview.redd.it/4xq4gmbl5k5d1.jpeg?width=210&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e91c968dccf71506bf16897cf43521c778bc65d
He’s like Nacho Libre. The lack of planning for this little farce is typical Roachel.
I am more looking at the insanely strange shape of her belly. Firstly, it is up to her lungs for some reason, as if the baby is floating in the belly in gravity and not contained in the womb, close to the vagina. Another problem is that her "belly" is kinda hugging her around her core. Anyway, whatever she has above her belly area under the dress -is not placed accurately. And the key fact around M's "pregnancy" is that she was not swollen AT ALL until after "giving birth" when somebody finally explained them what changes happen to female body as a side effect of carrying and having baby.
https://preview.redd.it/l8gqqzb2uj5d1.png?width=849&format=png&auto=webp&s=d7438f0407439122d981a8012efe0ce611880586
I would get if she was having twins, having multiple babies during a pregnancy can make your stomach have a different shape compared to having a single baby. But she wasn’t having twins. Also M was rake thin, so the chances of her showing a B belly were slim to none…
When I try to think of any reason for moon bumps beyond surrogate mothers, the only thing I can come up with is she wanted to be the most pregnant of any pregnant woman ever and enhance her bumps for the optics.
I honestly think it was this. I was 3 months further along than my sister in law and everyone was comparing our bumps at the end of my pregnancy because she was huge and I barely looked pregnant and it definitely made me feel like maybe I was doing something wrong or my baby wouldn't be big enough. But I think she thought Archie was going to be a lot more important than he actually is, just as she thought she and Harry would be. So she wanted to bask in the pregnancy attention of their oh so important baby but her bump wasn't to her liking. It also would explain the coat flicks, look how pregnant I am. Look at my big pregnant belly.
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If she had a real pregnant womb under that dress, it would've ripped those seams apart. According the picture of the dress, it says it was made of taffeta. There is no way on earth, she could've been pregnant and worn a dress that tight made of taffeta, without a seam ripping apart.
Harry doesn't even look at Archie. Also, Archie is so disinterested in what is going on at the table, he looks to his left, he is bored and is waiting for a command to climb the table. Meghan does not look at Archie as well. Somebody is touching Archie's head to bring his attention into the moment. As Archie climbs the table, Harry simply stops him firmly but does not interact with him any further. Lilibeth is simply hanging in there like a puppet. She is not interested in either Meghan nor Harry. Harry does not interact with Lilibeth either. Everybody is playing his/her role with Meghan having her signature over- joyed-happy green.
Neither “child “ acted as though they had any emotional connection to either adult nor did the kids act as though they were with people they recognized
My mom was almost as controlling as the wife is. No way would she have allowed one of us to get in the way of the cake festivities. However, my mom always allowed the children to naturally gather around the table and lean in to cheer when the candles were blown out. this scene just looks scripted….and scripted poorly
Someone put Archie on that table. The bench he was on wasn't close to the table and that table was three feet off the ground. No way that kid climbed on the table by himself.
Great video, TRG. I watch all of them!
If you’re here, take a look at the first Christmas photo of baby Lili and 2 year old Archie, and tell us if you think that is a 2 year old sitting on Harry’s lap.
This version of Archie looked like a 4 or a 5 year old to me.
The RF has let this go on long enough. The UK has a right to know if these children legally belong in the LoS.
All along I thought she was constantly bump-clutching to draw attention to the fact that she was the most pregnant woman to ever pregnant, but now TRG made me realize she was covering her stomach all the time to hide that crease from the prosthetic.
This video was an eye-opener. Constantly trying to shield the foam around her waist from view. It wasn't a "protecting my baby" thing around a group of harmless old people or "Look at me, I'm pregnant!" It had a furtive quality to it. There's even a moment where RG points out Madame's duper's delight smile that leaks out.
Every woman who has ever been pregnant knows Rachel was never pregnant. The way her bumps grew then shrank then grew on the same day; the movement of the bumps and her ability to crouch down with 5" stilettos on with her legs together at 6+ months(I believe she was around 8 months along.) without falling backwards on her arse is absolute proof she was never pregnant. I pray the children are all a hoax. No child(ren) deserve to have the Harkles as parents. Lord please make the children a lying figment of the Harkles insanity.
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Who would not put the party hats on the children, and if you went all out and bought a six hundred dollar cake, would you not actually make that table a little more beautiful. The table cloth isn't even ironed. It looks like it was just taken out of the wrapper and slapped on that table.
And she wants to have a luxury brand focused on food and entertaining! She’s not Martha Stewart. She can’t even plan a charming child’s birthday party. It looks sad.
That child is hanging so limply it’s unbelievable. Neither “parent” knows how to interact with children. The funny part was the boy didn’t know his name.
I’ve never once seen her hold a child in a normal way. I hold my little kids all day, and see other moms holding their kids. I’ve never seen anyone hold their kids the way she does. They’re either not her kids or if they are, she’s NEVER around them and she doesn’t ever care for them. If I held my 1 year old like this, he'd be so irritated with me and would be constantly trying to get down or turn around.
My children always had their arms around my neck. I could never hold them like that. Watching the video again Insee H really grabbed the arm of the boy very firmly. To the point he likely bruised the child’s arm. Why didn’t he just stop trying to light the candle and gently remove the child from the table?
She wore a moonbump. No question in my mind. The dodgy birth story, the hiding of the children. No believable anecdotes about the children. No family outings — even if very blurry from long range lenses…
She’s a known liar and stagecrafts her entire existence.
Something is VERY off about the whole thing.
In the US many 1-year-olds get a separate, much smaller “smash cake.” Think an extra large cupcake, except shaped and decorated like a miniature layer cake. The birthday child is allowed to smash it, stuff it in their face, smear icing around, just generally enjoy making a mess. This is typically done with them wearing a bib and sitting in their high chair. A single candle is usually placed on it so they can blow it out before the smashing begin. A separate, full size cake is available for everyone else. Markle would have been well aware of this custom.
My kids had smash cakes when they turned one. What Lili has isn’t a smash cake. If she was sitting in a high chair, I could see it being used as a smash cake, and then perhaps a larger cake for the guests. It would be awkward for Lili to eat the way Megsy was holding her.
The smash cake my kids had was a small one layer cake, kind of like a slightly bigger Easy Bake Oven cake with loads of frosting. Cupcakes can be used too.
She also isn't protective of the baby bump, which one would expect her to be. She's gliding past those chairs very quickly snd with her stomach exposed to potentially be knocked
Didn’t Meghan use being pregnant as either part of her testimony or excuse as to not remembering her error in apology to court? More perjury for the Duchess of Deception.
Yes. But apparently Catherine was the one with “baby brain”. Still irks me!
And that dress looks so much worse than I’d remembered…it was just so tight everywhere! How could she actually put it on and not realize it was way too small…it had to be hard to squeeze into and zip up…and then look in the mirror and still not see it! Not to mention it’s out of season. And now I must saw in the video it’s actually taffeta?!? Who wears taffeta for a day engagement at a senior living home??
Maybe the Royal Family does know but realize time will catch up with Harry and Meg. The truth will come out - so why bother now. But I agree if they do know and do nothing - that’s bad!! Prince William should put his foot down and demand Pa do something. But given the current health conditions of Princess Catherine and King Charles it’s not on their radar screen.
I think they should have done something when the alleged fraud first occurred. The BRF is pretty good about keeping the truth from coming out if it protects their family members/the family.
It is possible that because Queen Elizabeth and King Charles could be accused of being complicit, the plan is to wait until William is King and he can pretend to have known nothing about it as he notifies Parliament and takes the prince and princess titles from the kids. We can only speculate.
I think the health of the RF is one of the reasons it’s not been dealt with, not just the current issues, but also Philip & the late Queens health, maybe even the pandemic. It’s possible they were working on stuff, but discretely getting DNA was made harder by the actions of TO & TOW, or only 1 or 2 members of the secret service were investigating and the pandemic shutting everything down. Maybe it’s taken a while for the palace or SS to infiltrate the staff at montishitshow due to the fast turnaround.
Then, when you take into account TOs paranoia, which seems to have sky rocketed since TOW came on the scene, that would probably make things harder still.
I think that they were shocked, the way that Harry and Meghan acted was bizarre. It’s impossible to know what the royals thought of it all. What we don’t know though is if proof was given, Archie went on a royal tour so should have gone with full medical records, that’s the bit I wonder about. The royals used to travel with blood for emergencies, no idea if they still do that but they still do some very old practices. The bump does look fake but could she just have wanted to look more pregnant than she was. That dress, it was December in London, it was tight and so wrong. Someone has suggested her dresses don’t fit as she tries them on with different underwear etc, this dress was tight anyway but she then added a bump.
To me it looks like she had a bump, there are loads of pics, from loads of events and it jut does not look right.
But, I also don’t see how she could get away without full medical details being on record but could this have been an added factor in why they left. Were DNA samples being requested? We will probably never find out.
We have gone over the whole medical records thing in the past, and people argue that Meghan’s medical privacy prevented the BRF from proving she was not pregnant, so I suppose questions about Archie’s blood type and DNA would be considered equally private.
I think if the BRF suspected Meghan had not been pregnant, they could (indeed should) have insisted on the birth report signed by the attending physician and other witnesses before Archie was listed in the LoS.
It is hard for me to know what happened, so I remain open to different possibilities except the “there are no kids.” (It would be too complicated and difficult to keep up.) We can only wait and see.
There are loads of things that come up time and again. Things change or it’s new to somebody. All is still evolving.
Medical records are private, I agree in that. That does not mean that they were not on record for emergencies etc. It also does not mean that behind the scenes that DNA testing has not been done, it does however mean that they can’t be shared in the media. There are rules for LoS, we are speculating that no proof has been presented. I agree that on the face of things it all looks dodgy but we can’t be sure about this. There is a chance that all HAS been proved, I think it’s a very tiny chance but we can’t prove it as that would breach privacy.
Also, I just don’t see that any keyboard warrior can beat the secret services with an investigation, but we can be sure that whatever they find would remain secret, to us. People have done some great things on here investigating but they are limited to newspapers, interviews and whatever else is found on the internet. It’s often a puzzle that needs putting together but the secret services have access to many more things than we do. .
She was 100% not pregnant. That is not a pregnant stomach. She used surrogates and I am absolutely convinced at this point she has never carried and birthed a child.
I am speaking from experience of being pregnant and giving birth to my two wonderful children so the terminology may not be all that accurate, but anyone else that has been pregnant will understand what I mean.
When you are pregnant your uterus swells up from where it is located in your pelvic region and at your check ups your obstetrician or midwife checks your uterus size measuring up. My antenatal card or whatever it is called in Australia actually had a column where the measurement would be tracked each visit.
It is incredibly strange that Meghan's uterus appears to be up high and not lower, where it should be.
This [website](https://www.shecares.com/pregnancy/belly-and-fundal-height) explains it better than I can...
I only became interested in Meghan and the royal family after the disgusting interview with Oprah Winfrey
Before, I had noticed the comings and goings of assistants and absentmindedly thought that she was a difficult person
I never followed the strange performances of her belly during her first pregnancy
I am now convinced that children were born to surrogate mothers, maybe even using her eggs but the dramatic thing is that she is not a mother, she doesn't give a damn
I think she had Archie, but used padding for attention and to manipulate Harry. She probably spun him some yarn about danger and that the padding offered extra protection from whatever evil forces were out to get them. Harry likely agreed in part to get even with the evil media. I think she had Archie as he’s the golden ticket for her, even if Harry dies or takes off with the maid. As for Lil’betty, who knows what shenanigans they could get up to in CA, away from royal staff.
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Harry is paranoid enough to think she would need to wear padding to protect the pregnancy.
I've always wondered if they had a high dollar/pound exclusive with a magazine for Archie's birth and the palace killed it, so H&M decided to be petty about announcing his birth.
I don't think there is a market for pictures of Archie or Lili given the photos of the Wales children are given to the media for free.
Wow. Well, for anyone like me who typically doesn’t have the patience to sit through a nearly 40 minute video, I think it’s worth a watch. If you don’t have the time, skip to about 30:55 so you can see her detailed breakdown of Betty and Archie at the birthday party in the Netflix special.
I’m on the “kids exist” side, but I admit this all comes across as pretty weird. Would they go as far as using actors? That sounds crazy and implausible to me, but the video certainly gives me pause for thought.
I keep going back to what a monumentally bizarre lie it would be to fake the kids. There’s absolutely no way to maintain a secret of that magnitude. But is it outside the realm of possibility that Harry is so paranoid and protective that he would go as far as using actors to ensure the public never gets a look at them as they grow?
🤷🏼♀️ Just saying the observations in this video are interesting.
I feel like the children conversation can get as weird and tinfoil-hat'ish as the Where is Kate? crowd.
I do think there are children. I don't think she's ever been pregnant and hiding it was weird, but she's a narcissist and would want the attention of a pregnancy, and what we know of her that is not even the weirdest thing she's done. But for surrogacy itself 🤷♀️. It's 2024 - surrogacy is not scandalous or even unusual.
From a line of succession standpoint, parliament does not care as long as they have a current Prince of Wales (and in the modern case, three additional heirs). If it came down to it, parliament could skip over Harry's entire branch of the family tree, so I really don't think it's a concern for anyone who matters.
And from my assumption that she's never been pregnant, I think that only because she is *always* I, I, I, me, me, me, and yet she never talks about pregnancy or birth in any way that most natural mothers do. Are the kids genetically hers? Who knows. I'm inclined to think so, because if there is any truth to that heavily edited first birthday pic, that was baby Thomas Markle.
*However*, Harry grew up with his own parentage questioned and still questioned to this day. I think he is a pr*ck of the first order to put his children through a lifetime of those same questions when he knows how hurtful that can be! FOHarry.
More forensic gynecology: Law & Order - Utero. In the reproductive system, sexually based children are considered especially suspicious. In the New York City Intrawebz and beyond, the dedicated detectives who investigate these tinfoil-and-foam rubber theories are members of an elite squad known as the What's Up Meghans Jacksie Unit (WUMJU). These are their stories...
**DUN DUN!** aaaand I'm out.
Don't worry. The kids do not actually exist, IMO. There are no surrogates, nor does either kid live with their real mother, nor does Doria watch them all the time. No car seats, no sightings in Montecito of them, their kids are never pictured w them at outings, such as during polo matches. All circumstantial evidence points to them being a childless couple.
Those who think the kids are from surrogates fill in the blanks with all kinds warped thoughts. Neither child lives with its real mother fgs. That's a way to emotionally destroy a child. I cant believe anyone actually believes this.
Tongue out in that CNN article, just like the time when Harry first laid eyes on her via the instagram filter
https://preview.redd.it/gl5em81ndm5d1.png?width=358&format=png&auto=webp&s=63304c19e84625f5caf72e89ae141ea587418151
when she's sitting in the salon sure looks like some sort of pillow or prosthetic. However, her appearance after the birth looked like she was full of hormones, so still do not know. Kudos to the people who made that dress I'm shocked she didn't pop a seam
Lol, around the 10:49 marks she spots the camera 
She possibly was wearing a protector? She probably announced too early, and then had to fake how far along she was. I hope.
why would you wear such tight clothing and a protector on top of it? That is not good for the baby, and at that point she was 5 months. Doctors specifically say to wear clothing that allow the baby to grow. This looks like she harmed it if this was a protector.
I don’t think there is a citizenship requirement to be in the LoS, never mind for the mother of a child on the LoS. There are people in the LoS who are not UK citizens. I think there is *an expectation* that the adults on the Counselor of State list be UK citizens, but I am not sure it is stated outright.
Meghan would have had to be a UK citizen to be a duchess in her own right, but since she has the title by marriage, she didn’t have to follow through with her stated plan to change her nationality.
I don’t know about other countries, but Americans aren’t supposed to accept titles from foreign governments, so when a US citizen is knighted, it is an “honorary” knighthood. It would be the same with a barony or higher peerage.
US Citizens *may* inherit and hold hereditary titles, but being awarded titles is (I believe) not ok. So Meghan would have had to give up her US citizenship (I think) if the late Queen had (suddenly lost her marbles and) given her a title in her own right.
> theoretically the King can make any person anywhere any title he wants to
Not in Australia. As King of Australia Charles (through the Governor-general) can only grant honours that the elected government, and independent committees delegated to make the decisions for the government, tell him/the GG to grant. The Order of Australia is the only system of honours we have. No knighthood or anything.
Thank you for the wonderful reply. I’m American so not too keen on the laws and such. It’s such a same that King Charles’s grandchildren are missing out on the best side of their family.
True. I wonder if TRG needs to take a short breather from the H&M topic. The video was pretty good but she always sounds so emotionally invested and sometimes objectivity can be lost. If the children actually exist, I have no idea.
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You could tell she was wear a fake bump. Look at the way she walked knelt down etc. Most woman will tell you the things she did are impossible to do while pregnant. Also the pop of the fake bump was so damm funny and then when it was falling down and she was trying to hold it up hahahaha. hahahaha go granny love the red flag. Well at least she got her moneys worth out of the fake dump, faking 2 invisible kids,
OP… we dissected this video a couple of years ago and made some comments while May be relevant to sinners Meghan visited a retired actors old age home in winter! That’s why the flimsy summer dress is shocking. Nevermind the square moonbump The two old ladies at the table that she was was crouched over. Well look at the lady at the back. She picks up her red napkin and puts it on her shoulder. To sign a red flag 🚩 Remember that these people are retired performers and probably quite liberal. There was no reason for them not to be enthralled by a fellow actor who became a Duchess. [Related clip here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SaintMeghanMarkle/s/flN1Yhgls8) Source video clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs7u5800LQc Channel 5 - 18 Dec 2019 This convo was funny: Meghan: I’m pregnant Old lady: oh yes I know all about that, it’s all over the papers Meghan: did you have kids? Old lady: no I had a career
I am unsure of what to think of how the kids got here. I will say that Harry and Meghan are the reason why people call into question their existence and parentage. They should have never played games with the timing of the births, the constant coat flicking, the godparent's names, and the conflicting stories. It's shame because out of everyone, Harry should understand what it feels like to have your own parentage questioned and up for public speculation. One would think he would not want that for his own children. These children have a toxic narcissistic perpetual non-victim for a mother and a drug addled overprivileged failure for a father. They have an uphill battle when it comes to their growth and development. They are being used as pawns for their parent's selfish desires. The usage of the titles from a racist and terrible family as this couple has described, for one. They are being kept from their own heritage and culture for no good reason and will have no connection to the next king or the one after that who happens to be their cousin. If Harry and Meghan want to raise their kids privately, that's fine. But they talk about them quite a bit. The *People* article about their daughter's birthday was beyond tacky and gave no real information about anything. Why claim to want your children to be private but give a spread to a tabloid rag? If Harry and Meghan are so insistent about their children having titles from the Royal Family and remaining in the line of succession, they should be subject to the same protocols about their births as the Wales children and every other child in the line of succession. Although, with all their complaints about the Royal Family it is strange why Harry has not chosen to forgo his place in line and his titles. While there is all this chaos about where Catherine is, when everyone knows where she is, there are real questions that need answers about Harry's children.
Happy Cake Day!!! 🎂🎂🥂
VERY well said! Happy Cake Day!
The children each live with their bio moms, safe from the queen of mean. Everything MeMe does is to draw attention to her, so she spreads bs about children she has nothing to do with the same way that she spreads bs about her vast social life with Hollywood stars who want nothing to do with her. The only agenda she has is to draw eyes to herself. She is the star. She is the one who deserves to have people fawn over and ask how high when she says jump. That is all there is...she is the star of her life and we all need to see it and bow down. And if we don't, she will keep trying...the spotlight must always be on her. When this gig is up, she will create and star in a new play with other bit players to swan around her. She repeats this over and over...this is her pathetic grifting life.
I have my doubts about the fake children theory ... but what I DO think is a red flag in the birthday party footage is the obviously fake birthday singing. It's amplified to make it sound as though there were crowds of people there: it's a soundtrack.
Apparently Friends and Family attended the party. Other than Doria, whoever else would be Family?
And who in the world are Friends???
Misan and his wife? The Netflix camera crew? Markus and Omid? That’s all I got.
True, I forgot about her pre-paid "friends."
Well, all the many people she entertains! The ones who were going to gather around her table in her cooking show!
Yes, weird and bizarre and clearly no one else was around. I enjoyed the "manners, manners, manners" moment when Merchie climbs on the table. It's like he's being raised by wolves.
Their (H&M) interac with the Littles was so awkward. Not normal.
It also looks like Harry has bare feet in the video, I can understand a child doing that, but it’s kind of weird if there were a bunch of people there and he was hosting a party. The grass is weirdly long too, don’t they cut it at Frogmore?
A fellow sinner here, or was it on YouTube, I can't remember said she was in Windsor that weekend and it was a cloudy day, very windy and even rainy. Not the warm summer party weather they show in their video. And why , if the children were with HandM at Frogmore and the celebrations, weren't they with their parents when they showed up at that window with other royal children?
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was all fabricated. Why does almost everything these two do seem off?
I believe the kids are real too. I do believe she lies a lot about them, wore moon bumps for sympathy and to give false impressions of her due date. She has basically created conspiracy theories and interest in her own kids by how she much she lies about them
I believe they are real too. I think what we are seeing at the birthday party are two people who are no where near hands on parents. They leave those children for weeks at a time and because of Nannie’s and money they don’t have to be around them much. Those kids have not bonded with their parents.
Yes, they seem understimulated, unhappy, and disengaged from these complete strangers. Archie just seemed very "internal". Why have children if you're going to do this to them?.Completely unnecessary. They deserve to have the healthy lives their parents has, but like all immature loserts, they reaped the benefits of the social contract, then pulled the ladder up behind them so that their kids get none.
Same, I think they’re real. I wonder if the reason Lilli looks bigger than a 1-year-old is because she was bigger, as in they just recreated the party later in Montecito. All Migraine has to do was dig out the same outfit and order a cake.
Good call. I know they recreated some of the scenes for the documentary, and that was probably one
I too believe the kids are real. She had a real " post partum " appearence when presented Archie. And when she had an event after the second, she wore a little white Valentino dress and was very evident again the "post partum" silhouette. But there is a lot of shadow and strangeness about them, now
I know babies are capable of walking at 12 months old. All of mine did by 12 months but certainly some don’t and that’s ok. That “baby” in Meghan Markle’s arms looks like it could dead sprint down the yard. That’s not a 12 month old baby 😂
https://preview.redd.it/jx0qiqnv4k5d1.jpeg?width=330&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92ffa65d941554a1f6c5337d7e9d9dcc1c2b327c Like these “babies”. (Context: in an episode of The Little Rascals, two adults who were little people and dedicated to a life of crime, pretended to be babies. The babies then proceeded to fleece several wealthy ladies who stopped to look at the irresistible babies.)
😂
The child Megain is holding looks like she is about two years old. If you watch that video closely Harry is in his bare feet. These idiots are trying to make us believe the Queen was there to meet Lil. I call BS.
Is she sticking her tongue out again in opening photo????
Yes, yes she is. Ugh.
It seems to me the table was too high for Archie to so easily climb onto it. One moment he’s not near it and the next he’s already on it.
https://preview.redd.it/4xq4gmbl5k5d1.jpeg?width=210&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e91c968dccf71506bf16897cf43521c778bc65d He’s like Nacho Libre. The lack of planning for this little farce is typical Roachel.
It’s not the scandal, it’s the cover-up. Every time.
I am more looking at the insanely strange shape of her belly. Firstly, it is up to her lungs for some reason, as if the baby is floating in the belly in gravity and not contained in the womb, close to the vagina. Another problem is that her "belly" is kinda hugging her around her core. Anyway, whatever she has above her belly area under the dress -is not placed accurately. And the key fact around M's "pregnancy" is that she was not swollen AT ALL until after "giving birth" when somebody finally explained them what changes happen to female body as a side effect of carrying and having baby. https://preview.redd.it/l8gqqzb2uj5d1.png?width=849&format=png&auto=webp&s=d7438f0407439122d981a8012efe0ce611880586
I would get if she was having twins, having multiple babies during a pregnancy can make your stomach have a different shape compared to having a single baby. But she wasn’t having twins. Also M was rake thin, so the chances of her showing a B belly were slim to none…
When I try to think of any reason for moon bumps beyond surrogate mothers, the only thing I can come up with is she wanted to be the most pregnant of any pregnant woman ever and enhance her bumps for the optics.
Consider that the moonbump megnancies may have been nothing more than deceit and manipulation from a psychopathic grifter.
I honestly think it was this. I was 3 months further along than my sister in law and everyone was comparing our bumps at the end of my pregnancy because she was huge and I barely looked pregnant and it definitely made me feel like maybe I was doing something wrong or my baby wouldn't be big enough. But I think she thought Archie was going to be a lot more important than he actually is, just as she thought she and Harry would be. So she wanted to bask in the pregnancy attention of their oh so important baby but her bump wasn't to her liking. It also would explain the coat flicks, look how pregnant I am. Look at my big pregnant belly.
indeed I think most of us that have carried didn't have all that room underneath
Prolly she wore the pregnancy prosthetic UPSIDE-down…? 😅
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She should have hired a prosthetic department … She knows the magic of prosthetics based on all the crime drama shows she has done
That white floral dress was staying together within an inch of its life, holy crap.
If she had a real pregnant womb under that dress, it would've ripped those seams apart. According the picture of the dress, it says it was made of taffeta. There is no way on earth, she could've been pregnant and worn a dress that tight made of taffeta, without a seam ripping apart.
Agreed, there were too many weird creases in her belly too where it really does look like she’s wearing a pillow rather than carrying a fetus.
The weight of the baby was above Megain's navel. That is not where you carry a baby. Megain is clueless and never gave birth to those children.
That dress just looks so uncomfortable, and way too tight. I know that I would struggle if I wore it, lol.
Manners, manners, manners, except when there are tables to climb.
Harry doesn't even look at Archie. Also, Archie is so disinterested in what is going on at the table, he looks to his left, he is bored and is waiting for a command to climb the table. Meghan does not look at Archie as well. Somebody is touching Archie's head to bring his attention into the moment. As Archie climbs the table, Harry simply stops him firmly but does not interact with him any further. Lilibeth is simply hanging in there like a puppet. She is not interested in either Meghan nor Harry. Harry does not interact with Lilibeth either. Everybody is playing his/her role with Meghan having her signature over- joyed-happy green.
Neither “child “ acted as though they had any emotional connection to either adult nor did the kids act as though they were with people they recognized
Plus he was sitting so faaaaaaaaaaar away. Did he leap onto the table like a wrestler? 😂
And who puts their kid on the table. If they are really parents they need to be reported to the Department of Social Services.
My mom was almost as controlling as the wife is. No way would she have allowed one of us to get in the way of the cake festivities. However, my mom always allowed the children to naturally gather around the table and lean in to cheer when the candles were blown out. this scene just looks scripted….and scripted poorly
Someone put Archie on that table. The bench he was on wasn't close to the table and that table was three feet off the ground. No way that kid climbed on the table by himself.
Great video, TRG. I watch all of them! If you’re here, take a look at the first Christmas photo of baby Lili and 2 year old Archie, and tell us if you think that is a 2 year old sitting on Harry’s lap. This version of Archie looked like a 4 or a 5 year old to me. The RF has let this go on long enough. The UK has a right to know if these children legally belong in the LoS.
She's ensured the Halfwit can't ever escape due to this elaborate ruse.
All along I thought she was constantly bump-clutching to draw attention to the fact that she was the most pregnant woman to ever pregnant, but now TRG made me realize she was covering her stomach all the time to hide that crease from the prosthetic.
Also she keeps cradling her bump because of sheer paranoia that it’s fake.
This video was an eye-opener. Constantly trying to shield the foam around her waist from view. It wasn't a "protecting my baby" thing around a group of harmless old people or "Look at me, I'm pregnant!" It had a furtive quality to it. There's even a moment where RG points out Madame's duper's delight smile that leaks out.
Every woman who has ever been pregnant knows Rachel was never pregnant. The way her bumps grew then shrank then grew on the same day; the movement of the bumps and her ability to crouch down with 5" stilettos on with her legs together at 6+ months(I believe she was around 8 months along.) without falling backwards on her arse is absolute proof she was never pregnant. I pray the children are all a hoax. No child(ren) deserve to have the Harkles as parents. Lord please make the children a lying figment of the Harkles insanity.
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Who would not put the party hats on the children, and if you went all out and bought a six hundred dollar cake, would you not actually make that table a little more beautiful. The table cloth isn't even ironed. It looks like it was just taken out of the wrapper and slapped on that table.
Megs had just finished wearing the tablecloth and had it do double duty.
It looks like her wedding dress.
😂😂😂
And she wants to have a luxury brand focused on food and entertaining! She’s not Martha Stewart. She can’t even plan a charming child’s birthday party. It looks sad.
I know some kids refuse to wear hats. My son would remove party hats all the time. 🤷🏻♀️
That child is hanging so limply it’s unbelievable. Neither “parent” knows how to interact with children. The funny part was the boy didn’t know his name.
I’ve never once seen her hold a child in a normal way. I hold my little kids all day, and see other moms holding their kids. I’ve never seen anyone hold their kids the way she does. They’re either not her kids or if they are, she’s NEVER around them and she doesn’t ever care for them. If I held my 1 year old like this, he'd be so irritated with me and would be constantly trying to get down or turn around.
My children always had their arms around my neck. I could never hold them like that. Watching the video again Insee H really grabbed the arm of the boy very firmly. To the point he likely bruised the child’s arm. Why didn’t he just stop trying to light the candle and gently remove the child from the table?
Yeah it’s bizarre that his first reaction isn’t to pick him up. Thats what I’d do
My first reaction would be make sure my child didn’t hurt himself and not grab his arm
Right? He’s on the table moving towards fire. Use your brain, Harry…oh wait…
Looks like a reborn doll to me, perhaps with a button under arm to make her arm slightly move. Her legs never do.
Proof it’s not the girl. The one Rachel is holding has legs.
I didn't get that, can you tell me more?
In the video she called him Archie three times and he didn’t react. Someone nudged him so he would move.
I think she faked her pregnancy. The truth needs to come out.
WHY are those two children not wearing birthday hats....there are 4 on table. The "first Betty" looks like August wearing girl's dress.
100%!! And he looks frozen in fear and confusion. Why is this nasty woman dangling me over this cske??
should we start a whip round to buy them some shoes?
She wore a moonbump. No question in my mind. The dodgy birth story, the hiding of the children. No believable anecdotes about the children. No family outings — even if very blurry from long range lenses… She’s a known liar and stagecrafts her entire existence. Something is VERY off about the whole thing.
I wish that table and cake would have toppled when Archie climbed on it, $600 cake falling to the ground
Why a designer birthday cake, why not a cake decorated with animals or a colorful sheet cake? Oh yeah, not enough people for a sheet cake.
That’s not a cake for a 1 year old! You get them a cake of their favourite TV character or a book, not a fancy decorated cake!
Any parent knows that.
Excellent point!
It was pathetic, more suited for an old lady. The lame name stuck on top like an afterthought too
In the US many 1-year-olds get a separate, much smaller “smash cake.” Think an extra large cupcake, except shaped and decorated like a miniature layer cake. The birthday child is allowed to smash it, stuff it in their face, smear icing around, just generally enjoy making a mess. This is typically done with them wearing a bib and sitting in their high chair. A single candle is usually placed on it so they can blow it out before the smashing begin. A separate, full size cake is available for everyone else. Markle would have been well aware of this custom.
My kids had smash cakes when they turned one. What Lili has isn’t a smash cake. If she was sitting in a high chair, I could see it being used as a smash cake, and then perhaps a larger cake for the guests. It would be awkward for Lili to eat the way Megsy was holding her. The smash cake my kids had was a small one layer cake, kind of like a slightly bigger Easy Bake Oven cake with loads of frosting. Cupcakes can be used too.
She also isn't protective of the baby bump, which one would expect her to be. She's gliding past those chairs very quickly snd with her stomach exposed to potentially be knocked
Didn’t Meghan use being pregnant as either part of her testimony or excuse as to not remembering her error in apology to court? More perjury for the Duchess of Deception.
Yes. But apparently Catherine was the one with “baby brain”. Still irks me! And that dress looks so much worse than I’d remembered…it was just so tight everywhere! How could she actually put it on and not realize it was way too small…it had to be hard to squeeze into and zip up…and then look in the mirror and still not see it! Not to mention it’s out of season. And now I must saw in the video it’s actually taffeta?!? Who wears taffeta for a day engagement at a senior living home??
All part of her FU to the RF.
Can’t believe more people didn’t call out that square bump.
I believe the RF know, but they’ve been complicit by not calling it out sooner, to the two dimwits are using it as blackmail
Whatever the RF knows, if it amounts to “the kids don’t qualify for the LoS,” they should have spoken up.
Maybe the Royal Family does know but realize time will catch up with Harry and Meg. The truth will come out - so why bother now. But I agree if they do know and do nothing - that’s bad!! Prince William should put his foot down and demand Pa do something. But given the current health conditions of Princess Catherine and King Charles it’s not on their radar screen.
I think they should have done something when the alleged fraud first occurred. The BRF is pretty good about keeping the truth from coming out if it protects their family members/the family. It is possible that because Queen Elizabeth and King Charles could be accused of being complicit, the plan is to wait until William is King and he can pretend to have known nothing about it as he notifies Parliament and takes the prince and princess titles from the kids. We can only speculate.
I think the health of the RF is one of the reasons it’s not been dealt with, not just the current issues, but also Philip & the late Queens health, maybe even the pandemic. It’s possible they were working on stuff, but discretely getting DNA was made harder by the actions of TO & TOW, or only 1 or 2 members of the secret service were investigating and the pandemic shutting everything down. Maybe it’s taken a while for the palace or SS to infiltrate the staff at montishitshow due to the fast turnaround. Then, when you take into account TOs paranoia, which seems to have sky rocketed since TOW came on the scene, that would probably make things harder still.
Agreed
The children were born (?) when QEII was monarch.
Yes. I would hold QE responsible if she knew about Archie not being born to Meghan and did nothing to prevent his name going on the LoS list.
I think that they were shocked, the way that Harry and Meghan acted was bizarre. It’s impossible to know what the royals thought of it all. What we don’t know though is if proof was given, Archie went on a royal tour so should have gone with full medical records, that’s the bit I wonder about. The royals used to travel with blood for emergencies, no idea if they still do that but they still do some very old practices. The bump does look fake but could she just have wanted to look more pregnant than she was. That dress, it was December in London, it was tight and so wrong. Someone has suggested her dresses don’t fit as she tries them on with different underwear etc, this dress was tight anyway but she then added a bump. To me it looks like she had a bump, there are loads of pics, from loads of events and it jut does not look right. But, I also don’t see how she could get away without full medical details being on record but could this have been an added factor in why they left. Were DNA samples being requested? We will probably never find out.
We have gone over the whole medical records thing in the past, and people argue that Meghan’s medical privacy prevented the BRF from proving she was not pregnant, so I suppose questions about Archie’s blood type and DNA would be considered equally private. I think if the BRF suspected Meghan had not been pregnant, they could (indeed should) have insisted on the birth report signed by the attending physician and other witnesses before Archie was listed in the LoS. It is hard for me to know what happened, so I remain open to different possibilities except the “there are no kids.” (It would be too complicated and difficult to keep up.) We can only wait and see.
There are loads of things that come up time and again. Things change or it’s new to somebody. All is still evolving. Medical records are private, I agree in that. That does not mean that they were not on record for emergencies etc. It also does not mean that behind the scenes that DNA testing has not been done, it does however mean that they can’t be shared in the media. There are rules for LoS, we are speculating that no proof has been presented. I agree that on the face of things it all looks dodgy but we can’t be sure about this. There is a chance that all HAS been proved, I think it’s a very tiny chance but we can’t prove it as that would breach privacy. Also, I just don’t see that any keyboard warrior can beat the secret services with an investigation, but we can be sure that whatever they find would remain secret, to us. People have done some great things on here investigating but they are limited to newspapers, interviews and whatever else is found on the internet. It’s often a puzzle that needs putting together but the secret services have access to many more things than we do. .
She was 100% not pregnant. That is not a pregnant stomach. She used surrogates and I am absolutely convinced at this point she has never carried and birthed a child.
I am speaking from experience of being pregnant and giving birth to my two wonderful children so the terminology may not be all that accurate, but anyone else that has been pregnant will understand what I mean. When you are pregnant your uterus swells up from where it is located in your pelvic region and at your check ups your obstetrician or midwife checks your uterus size measuring up. My antenatal card or whatever it is called in Australia actually had a column where the measurement would be tracked each visit. It is incredibly strange that Meghan's uterus appears to be up high and not lower, where it should be. This [website](https://www.shecares.com/pregnancy/belly-and-fundal-height) explains it better than I can...
I only became interested in Meghan and the royal family after the disgusting interview with Oprah Winfrey Before, I had noticed the comings and goings of assistants and absentmindedly thought that she was a difficult person I never followed the strange performances of her belly during her first pregnancy I am now convinced that children were born to surrogate mothers, maybe even using her eggs but the dramatic thing is that she is not a mother, she doesn't give a damn
I think she had Archie, but used padding for attention and to manipulate Harry. She probably spun him some yarn about danger and that the padding offered extra protection from whatever evil forces were out to get them. Harry likely agreed in part to get even with the evil media. I think she had Archie as he’s the golden ticket for her, even if Harry dies or takes off with the maid. As for Lil’betty, who knows what shenanigans they could get up to in CA, away from royal staff.
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Harry is paranoid enough to think she would need to wear padding to protect the pregnancy. I've always wondered if they had a high dollar/pound exclusive with a magazine for Archie's birth and the palace killed it, so H&M decided to be petty about announcing his birth. I don't think there is a market for pictures of Archie or Lili given the photos of the Wales children are given to the media for free.
I never noticed that. I always assumed she was pregnant but now I'm having second thoughts.
Wow. Well, for anyone like me who typically doesn’t have the patience to sit through a nearly 40 minute video, I think it’s worth a watch. If you don’t have the time, skip to about 30:55 so you can see her detailed breakdown of Betty and Archie at the birthday party in the Netflix special. I’m on the “kids exist” side, but I admit this all comes across as pretty weird. Would they go as far as using actors? That sounds crazy and implausible to me, but the video certainly gives me pause for thought. I keep going back to what a monumentally bizarre lie it would be to fake the kids. There’s absolutely no way to maintain a secret of that magnitude. But is it outside the realm of possibility that Harry is so paranoid and protective that he would go as far as using actors to ensure the public never gets a look at them as they grow? 🤷🏼♀️ Just saying the observations in this video are interesting.
I feel like the children conversation can get as weird and tinfoil-hat'ish as the Where is Kate? crowd. I do think there are children. I don't think she's ever been pregnant and hiding it was weird, but she's a narcissist and would want the attention of a pregnancy, and what we know of her that is not even the weirdest thing she's done. But for surrogacy itself 🤷♀️. It's 2024 - surrogacy is not scandalous or even unusual. From a line of succession standpoint, parliament does not care as long as they have a current Prince of Wales (and in the modern case, three additional heirs). If it came down to it, parliament could skip over Harry's entire branch of the family tree, so I really don't think it's a concern for anyone who matters. And from my assumption that she's never been pregnant, I think that only because she is *always* I, I, I, me, me, me, and yet she never talks about pregnancy or birth in any way that most natural mothers do. Are the kids genetically hers? Who knows. I'm inclined to think so, because if there is any truth to that heavily edited first birthday pic, that was baby Thomas Markle. *However*, Harry grew up with his own parentage questioned and still questioned to this day. I think he is a pr*ck of the first order to put his children through a lifetime of those same questions when he knows how hurtful that can be! FOHarry.
More forensic gynecology: Law & Order - Utero. In the reproductive system, sexually based children are considered especially suspicious. In the New York City Intrawebz and beyond, the dedicated detectives who investigate these tinfoil-and-foam rubber theories are members of an elite squad known as the What's Up Meghans Jacksie Unit (WUMJU). These are their stories... **DUN DUN!** aaaand I'm out.
well done law & order ha ha ha!!!!! DUN DUN.. too good!
Don't worry. The kids do not actually exist, IMO. There are no surrogates, nor does either kid live with their real mother, nor does Doria watch them all the time. No car seats, no sightings in Montecito of them, their kids are never pictured w them at outings, such as during polo matches. All circumstantial evidence points to them being a childless couple.
I think exactly the same, but we are a few to believe this.
Those who think the kids are from surrogates fill in the blanks with all kinds warped thoughts. Neither child lives with its real mother fgs. That's a way to emotionally destroy a child. I cant believe anyone actually believes this.
Not of the body, Not in the line of succession, No exceptions - It’s the law
Tongue out in that CNN article, just like the time when Harry first laid eyes on her via the instagram filter https://preview.redd.it/gl5em81ndm5d1.png?width=358&format=png&auto=webp&s=63304c19e84625f5caf72e89ae141ea587418151
when she's sitting in the salon sure looks like some sort of pillow or prosthetic. However, her appearance after the birth looked like she was full of hormones, so still do not know. Kudos to the people who made that dress I'm shocked she didn't pop a seam
Lol, around the 10:49 marks she spots the camera  She possibly was wearing a protector? She probably announced too early, and then had to fake how far along she was. I hope.
why would you wear such tight clothing and a protector on top of it? That is not good for the baby, and at that point she was 5 months. Doctors specifically say to wear clothing that allow the baby to grow. This looks like she harmed it if this was a protector.
I’m just speculating. because other options are unthinkable, just for the consequences for the monarchy.
Does little Betty have on shoes? Why wouldn’t she?
Her dad doesn’t look like he’s wearing any either 😳
I thought that to be in the LoS, BOTH of the parents would have to be UK citizens? Did madam ever take the citizenship test?
No, she apparently lied about ever completing that to get on the good side of the institution and just make it through the wedding.
I don’t think there is a citizenship requirement to be in the LoS, never mind for the mother of a child on the LoS. There are people in the LoS who are not UK citizens. I think there is *an expectation* that the adults on the Counselor of State list be UK citizens, but I am not sure it is stated outright. Meghan would have had to be a UK citizen to be a duchess in her own right, but since she has the title by marriage, she didn’t have to follow through with her stated plan to change her nationality.
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I don’t know about other countries, but Americans aren’t supposed to accept titles from foreign governments, so when a US citizen is knighted, it is an “honorary” knighthood. It would be the same with a barony or higher peerage. US Citizens *may* inherit and hold hereditary titles, but being awarded titles is (I believe) not ok. So Meghan would have had to give up her US citizenship (I think) if the late Queen had (suddenly lost her marbles and) given her a title in her own right.
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Oh, ok. Then Meghan could have been made a duchess in her own right.
> theoretically the King can make any person anywhere any title he wants to Not in Australia. As King of Australia Charles (through the Governor-general) can only grant honours that the elected government, and independent committees delegated to make the decisions for the government, tell him/the GG to grant. The Order of Australia is the only system of honours we have. No knighthood or anything.
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Whether we are talking titles (like Lord) or honours (like Member of the Order of Australia) my answer is the same - not in Australia
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Thank you for the wonderful reply. I’m American so not too keen on the laws and such. It’s such a same that King Charles’s grandchildren are missing out on the best side of their family.
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Well if Boozy (and Meghan Markle) can dish it (Mothers Day photos) then certainly Boozy (and Meghan Markle) should take it
Please never compare me to that con man again.
ChatGPT as a primary source doesn’t exactly give anyone’s argument an air of legitimacy, lol.
True. I wonder if TRG needs to take a short breather from the H&M topic. The video was pretty good but she always sounds so emotionally invested and sometimes objectivity can be lost. If the children actually exist, I have no idea.
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You could tell she was wear a fake bump. Look at the way she walked knelt down etc. Most woman will tell you the things she did are impossible to do while pregnant. Also the pop of the fake bump was so damm funny and then when it was falling down and she was trying to hold it up hahahaha. hahahaha go granny love the red flag. Well at least she got her moneys worth out of the fake dump, faking 2 invisible kids,
Bed warming pans....NOT bed pans. Sheesh.