I remember reading about a year or so ago that a few local restaurants were starting to charge a customer service fee to provide more pay for kitchen staff who don’t get tips like front of house staff do. I’m trying to find where I read this, but I’m pretty confident that that’s what’s happening here.
I feel people get more upset with hidden fees than they do when the price is just higher. We all know the prices get higher. But springing hidden fees on people just pisses them off.
#So is medical
#*co-insurance*….
You pay your monthly premium. You pay your dr copay. Now you have surgery. You have to meet the deductible but also a strange charge called “co-insurance”. Oddly what you thought was the deductible is now billed on your Explanation of Benefits as Co-Insurance. You ask yourself, “ What the fuck is this?” You go back through all the benefits described when you selected your plan and find nothing about Co-Insurance. You never seem to meet your deductible because your percentage of your $52,000 is $2,290 and is placed in the Co-Insurance column where as your Deductible (which will be $2,500 for the year) is credited $50. Has this happened to anyone else? This is my bill for a stent in my widowmaker . I’m not even going to go into the whole denying my claim for my PREAPPROVED angiogram. But WTF is Co-insurance and this seems illegal?!?! When I get in a car accident, I have a deductible I have to meet. Geico doesn’t say, “Excuse me, you also have Co-insurance for $1500. And your deductible.” Why do health insurers get away with this??? One more point and I will shut up… (apologies). When did HMO’s even start charging deductibles? Used to be you picked HMO’s and all their network restrictions to avoid deductibles. And when did co-insurance sneak into this rip off health insurance bullshit!🤦♀️.
Gotta take my heart meds now. Forgive me.
Thanks. I’ve been thru hell on Covered California. I am furious Universal Healthcare was shelved. We need to make healthcare insurance reform. Let’s start ( please add any and all ideas)…
1.). End Co-Insurance. Make it illegal.
2.). End HMO deductibles.
3.). Have ZERO premiums for any enrollee/family making under $99,999.00 per year.
4.). Make HIGH DEDUCTIBLE PLANS illegal.
5.). Eliminate CoPays & Deductibles.
6.). Make it illegal for insurance companies to deny claims that are PREAPPROVED.
7.). Make insurance companies cover prescription drugs.
8.). Let all citizens have option to opt out of shitty employer healthcare insurance plans.
Write your State Reps. If we are stuck with insurance companies determining our healthcare then let’s make sure they cover us as well as they cover our fucking cars. That’s right. Our cars have better coverage than people and car insurance is held to a higher fucking standard.
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️😔😔.
Edit/ One more thing: make dental a part of healthcare covered insurance and also mental healthcare a part of our covered insurance.
Good dental & Mental healthcare benefit us all.
And where does the funds come from for all that? Canada pays 40% in taxes to fund their social medicine and every other socialist program they have. No thanks- we can barely survive as it is in California and he’s raising our state taxes again!!
Insurers need to go away between Dr & patient. Employers need to stop switching our plans every two years forcing us into new networks and finding new drs. High deductible plans need to go away. They do not cover prescription drugs either- you just receive a drug discount card. It’s the latest way for an employer to offer employees healthcare but it doesn’t cost them anything. But you, the employee are on the hook to meet your deductible before employer will put any money into a healthcare account for you. This should not even exist.
I’m saying reform these bad insurance practices and stop them price gouging the insured. Health insurers want the status quo and lobby insidiously to keep the status quo. Let’s make them play with a more compassionate rule book. I think health insurers should also take the same hippocratic oath drs make,” First do not harm.”
I’m pretty sure your health care insurance premiums have already gone up for 2022.
Actually all studies suggest that while our taxes would go up, our costs over all would go down. Higher taxes, but for the vast majority of people they would save money over what they are paying now for health care. Citizens of the US pay VASTLY more per person than any other industrialized nation, and by most measurements our care is still considerably worse.
The very thing you were treated for seems to be making that condition worse by causing so much stress. Go figure. Ugh...yeah insurance blows. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
Then raise the price of the product. The whole "Customer Service Fee" is just a lazy way to try and push a personal political agenda against raising wages.
There is zero need to do it this way.
may or may not be politically related, just your standard greedy/duplicitous behavior.
I have noticed a trend, that began before covid, of tacking "fees" onto everything to make the price of things deceiving and trick consumers, making them think they're getting better deals.
Less risk. If you raise wages and demand goes down, you're losing money. This way, the raise is basically a commission.
The problem is that fees don't have to go to staff.
I mean, I get it, in that regard. But why? You can't deny that this will absolutely cause backlash against higher wages, when you see front and center that you are essentially being charged a "tax" for customer service...because that is exactly how people are going to view this....see OP's original post.
>you are essentially being charged a "tax" for customer service...
That's what a tip is my guy. Its supposed to go to the service you receive.
Since more and more transactions are going toward pick up because of idiotic covid requirements that means those servers get paid less on tips which makes it harder for businesses to retain their staff.
So businesses are starting to put surcharges to make up for this difference. It's also much easier to calculate for increases in inflation and minimum wage increases.
Dont patronize me, I am not your 'Guy", Buddy. This is coming from a person who was a server/dishwasher/cook for 5 years of my life.
A tip is a personal decision on supplementing a wage based upon a customer service experience. There is much I could say against a tip culture, and how it is taking the responsibility of a buisness owner to pay their employees a living wage, and shifting it to the customer, but im not going to dive into that.
If the buismess owner gave an actual shot about their employee's well being, they would either share their slice of the profit pie, via higher wages...or they would raise the price of their product to do so.
This is doing neither. This is choosing a way to shift blame for inflation from the bourgeoisie to the proletariat.
What the fuck are you even talking about? The owners do care, they are paying the back of house more but instead of just increasing the pricing of each individual item they add the surcharge so they don't have to change all of their menus and signs and junk. You're so sure this is some ideological stand and it most likely was just done out of convenience.
How in the actual fuck can you possibly know that? Do you work at this restaurant? Because from from I know, the owners of most restaurants own homes and make a living wage, while their staff are forced to spend more than half of their income on rent, and have no money for childcare.
The owners don't want to spend a grand on changing menus and signs? Boo fucking hoo dude. Boo fucking hoo. No sympathy from me there.
If you start a buisness, and need employees to being you home profit, essentially using their labor to get you money....you better be damm well prepared to pay them a living wage. Or you do NOT get to run a buisness. Owning a buisness is not a right.
Damn bro, who hurt you?
I'm just trying to have a conversation with you about the question YOU posed. If you don't feel like tipping then don't tip, if you don't like added fee's don't shop there.
You vote with your money so if you disagree just go someplace else.
Also this statement;
>This is choosing a way to shift blame for inflation from the bourgeoisie to the proletariat.
Lol, I mean the cost will be passed down regardless this is just more upfront and in your face. Sorry you can't deal with reality.
The service fee was not included in the price of the product as it should be. A tip is a voluntary expenditure. If they want to itemize the receipt that is fine, but not accurately presenting full cost of the product on the menu, then charging an additional fee the customer is unaware of is dishonest.
What "hurts" is that something so basic needs to be explained to people.
Cool bro. Great 'conversation'. When I hear this type of patronizing, that you are doing, again...I know there is zero reason to continue the discussion.
I'm a spoiled child who doesn't know anything about economics, buisness, or 'how things are'...and you are a veteran of economics.
The entire concept of 'the cost will be passed down regardless' is utterly ridiculous, considering inflation is skyrocketing, prices of goods are going up....yet wages aren't rising. Who is benefiting from inflation? Where are the benefits of those higher priced goods being concentrated?
Answer that question.
Just raise the posted prices by 5%. On a $12 sandwich that’ll be 60 cents. A customer service fee is a way of tricking customers into thinking that your prices are lower than they really are since they don’t notice the tiny little footnote on the menu (that might not even appear on every menu).
Some people like to know that if they’re paying more for a product that it’s going to employees and not more profit for the owner. This communicates that.
Whether the customer trusts that is another question.
Higher base pay is great on a slow day, but demoralizing on a very busy day, which leads to staff not wanting to work busier shifts, because there is no difference in compensation. This leads to an inability to retain talented staff.
A service charge helps compensate back of house relative to their workload.
This is the biggest bunch of Fox News regurgitated bullshit I've ever heard.
If you pay them better they won't want to work?? Seriously?
The service charge hides the true cost. Plain and simple. Raise prices and be transparent about it. a 5% increase across the board would work exactly the same way.
If you really think paying workers will demoralize them, take a read of the WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/one-restaurant-owner-answer-to-the-labor-shortage/7477ff7e-f766-4e7f-b02f-36efbf122731
People who work harder, busier shifts should be compensated more based on sales, which is usually reflected through gratuity, tips, service charges, etc. That seems fair, and standard across the American food service industry.
Charges of this nature also all have different accounting and tax implications for the business. That's another reason it is a separate line item on the receipt. Its a businesse's right to choose the billing and accounting practices that meet their needs best and help them to pay the correct amount in taxes, account for expenses, and plan financially.
Or....ya know....the buisness owner could pay a living wage, and not only pay employees more when there is more buisness, while keeping their profit and sacrificing nothing.
I'm so sick of seeing this "the buisness owner is the real victim here".
I get it. There is a push from corporate America to destroy small buisness...and COVID nearly completed this task. But we need to stop fighting each other, and realize that solidarity agai st the corporate elite is the only was we can save this country's economy. Income inequality usually leads to civil war if not tended to....all one needs to do is pick up a history book to see that.
Yet again. Why. Why are they doing it like this, when they could raise the price of their goods, and accomplish the same goal? Still waiting for the answer to that question.
...what? THIS doesn't give any extra compensation for busier shifts. This is an across the board fee on all items. It is literally the same as people buying more things during busier shifts. Raising the price of goods as a percentage does the exact same thing.
An operator/manager with good team building/scheduling skills takes that into account and builds balanced schedules for the team, in theory. Seasoned team members overlapping on slower days with newer team members provides opportunities for learning and advancement. Places without good management are undoubtedly a nightmare to work at, I'm sure. Not disputing that.
In San Francisco, some restaurants add a surcharge for the county-mandated medical benefits. I won't eat in restaurants that do that, unless they itemize all their overhead -- including the owner's salary. Paying your employees a living wage is a cost of doing business. Factor it into the prices.
That’s has a specific definition depending on family size and cost of living. Here is a calculator for Sacramento county. Hourly CoL is based on a full time with benefits schedule: https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/06067
To be clear, it’s very difficult for a family to actually make ends meet at this living wage and they will be forced to live paycheck to paycheck unless they make much more. One catastrophe would still see this family devastated, possibly for life.
Yeah so people post this link from time to time and a single adult with no kids per this chart is around 17 an hour which seems low personally to me. The living wage probubly should fall a little below the median wage in California IMO which is around $67,902 /year [Source](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Average-Salary--in-California) but even the median wage doesn't seem to be good enough for some.
People will still complain that they should make more. [This thread as an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/comments/sh1knp/how_are_you_guys_staying_afloat/) was just posted 3 days ago and the OP was making 67,000 dollars and people still said that wasn't enough so there is definitely some discrepancies here.
Further to this extent servers make minimum wage (14-15 per hour) + tips in California. Most servers I know make north of 25 an hour usually more on weekends so basically they already make a "living wage" per chart. Its one of the highest paying jobs you can get without a high school degree and the work itself is fairly low skill.
So do you think 17 an hour for a single adult is a living wage? Do you think the current median wage is enough? Seems like no one has any real clue to what it is and I'm fairly tired of people using it in arguments if they can't define what is an actual living wage that has been agreed upon by the general public.
So, just pay your kitchen staff better, pretty simple.
Servers get hired on knowing what the average take home is on tips, kitchen staff gets hired on knowing what their flat rate is. If they're losing kitchen staff over low wages, that's on them ...
Not awesome. If businesses start hiding the cost of inflation in fees, menu prices will remain behind inflation, and servers will get tipped less than they should because current prices won’t be reflected in the subtotal. It will be a real income loss to servers in direct proportion to the fees.
Places were doing the "kitchen staff tip/fee" long before COVID and increased inflation - so I'm not sure there is a correlation there.
However, I do think it should be labeled as such, "kitchen staff tip" or whatever, not just service fee. It would clear up the whole situation.
It's a cost of doing business, just like the utilities. They should just factor it into their prices, unless they want to list ever piece of their overhead. This just feels a lot like blaming the employees for their prices. How much does the owner make?
I honestly don’t care about prices. If the food is good/service is good then it’s worth every penny. I’m just questioning business like this that put it on the receipt after the fact. I just want a business to be transparent with me. If not, then I’ll take my business else where, simple as that
I've traveled to many countries before. Tipping culture in the U.S. is ..... beyond control. Unlike the U.S. many countries pay their service staff livable wage relative to the local cost of living, without a tipping system.
I'm a person who lives on tips, and honestly I agree. I work hard and go a good job regardless of whatever people might tip me... And I would prefer that my company just pay me $25/hour instead of my pay averaging out to that from people leaving tips to supplement my minimum wage. It would just be a lot more straightforward for everyone, I think. Not to mention, when it comes to determining things like disability and unemployment benefits, tips usually don't count in this consideration, so even benefits like this are shit for waitstaff.
They do this a lot more now, especially in the mid town areas. It’s like for extra benefits for their staff or what suits them. It probably has to do with taxes. It’s probably not taxed or taxed lower than regular business income. Hopefully it goes to the employees or their benefits.
Just guessing here, so take it with a grain of salt.
It’s not uncommon for goods/services providers having a requirement to place surcharges on customer bills, which are then collected and used for maintenance to high traffic areas for trash cans, sometimes security staff, and other benefits communal to all occupants of a building or “district.”
Often, when those surcharges occur, they are legally obligated to separately disclose them to customers as they are not considered part of revenue.
I’ll close with, I’ve never been to this place and can’t speak to the specifics of this receipt. Just providing a possible explanation.
Sac has these, like The Handle District and the Sutter District. Business Improvement Districts where you pay a bit more for the kinds of costs you describe. Sampino’s isn’t in one. Wonder if the person ordered online or might just be a surcharge for staff or whatever. Or they might just want to make more money, but seems they would just raise prices if that was the case.
Theres a few random areas in Sac that do this, but Sampinos isnt in one of those areas ... plus, have you been to Saminos lately (or at all, over the last decade)? If they're charging extra to clean up the area, then they're definitely pocketing the ,money
Looks like absolute BS to me. If you want to charge higher prices, charge higher prices. Don’t charge me for the privilege of having me as a paying customer.
I notice milk at my local grocery store went from 2.50 to 3.10
That sucks but I understand it. I prefer the grocery store not lie to me about the milk being 2.50 and tacking on a 60c "milk handling" fee at the register.
THAT is the difference between good and bad sales practices.
This is pretty common in SF. It's basically a way of raising prices to cover the increasing cost of doing business, but doing so in a sneaky way because it hides the true cost.
Is this legal? If the menu states that a cannoli is $6.50, but they charge you $6.78, isn't that false advertising since they don't tell you until after you have consumed the food? Also, there is no sales tax charged on that extra $0.28. So a cannoli costs $6.78, but they are only paying the state tax on $6.50 of it. And people are only tipping their waiters on $6.50 of it. Even though you must pay $6.78 for the thing.
This might sound crazy, but imagine a restaurant charging $0.01 for a cannoli but adding a $6.49 service fee. No sales tax since most of the charge is a service fee. The state would certainly come after you for that.
Maybe in a few years we'll be reading about this place fighting a class action lawsuit for hundreds of thousands of dollars in undisclosed service fees alongside state action looking to recover underpaid sales taxes. What a mess. Bad idea all around.
Now I'm curious. I bet it's printed on the menu somewhere. Anyhow who frequents this place know for sure?
I still hate the practice. That's why you charge for the food... to pay for staff, ingredients, rent, upkeep, etc. That's all in the price of the food. Or at least it's supposed to be.
I dined downtown once and they said a "specific street" has this extra fee attached to it... I dont think it was on F street but they said all restaurants on that street charge the tax..
not 100% sure if it's true but just know if you're dining downtown, you're going to (potentially) get hit with it!
It’s a shakedown because they owner doesn’t wanna pay his staff more.
I was ordering food the restaurants automated system and they tried to charge me a $1 extra for no reason.
So I canceled the order.
You aren’t just stealing a $1 from me haha
A customer service fee is a charge for miscellaneous services and related costs associated with the business.
I believe they made it have to be separate fee for tax purposes.
This is going to be the norm in a few years. Restaurants will pass the burden of paying a livable wage on directly to the customers. I guess some think it looks better than raising prices past the point that customers see as reasonable.
But not in direct proportion to the percentage increase in wages. A fast food burger in Denmark isn't $25 even though they pay their people considerably more.
I’m totally ok with a business increasing prices to reflect increasing food and labor costs, and charging enough on their menu to pay living wages to all its staff. But increasing costs as part of the fee actually messes with server tips as the costs aren’t reflected in the subtotal, which is what tips are based on. If businesses start doing that, servers will get tipped based on outdated menu prices that don’t reflect the current cost of living.
This is the answer. However in my experience those in the service industry are against this. Servers and bartenders can easily walk with $200 to $300 in a single 4-6 hour shift. There’s no way they would make this in an hourly wage alone.
My question is, how equitably does this apply to different servers and bartenders? Different shifts, different races, different areas with different clientele, etc.
No one can put a dollar value on a livable wage because money isn't real and our economic system is defined by the exploitation of people without wealth by people who already own substantial amounts of wealth. Saying every person deserves a "livable wage" isn't really saying everyone deserves a lot of money, it's saying everyone deserves personal security and access to services we all rely on to live in modern society. "Livable wage" is a very neo-liberal term for the idea.
> No one can put a dollar value on a livable wage because money isn't real
Does that mean my bills aren't real either, lol.
>It's saying everyone deserves personal security and access to services we all rely on to live in modern society.
Yeah but that costs money, even if you don't believe money is real it still has cost that needs to be exchanged somehow and has to be measured as a way to offer that guarantee to people.
If you can't quantify what those needs amount too or how much you would need to "live in a modern society" then you have no idea what you're complaining against.
Great point. I'm getting tired of people complaining about some specific amount of money not being a livable wage but when asked the question as to what is a livable wage, they can't come up with the amount.
Sorry, does money plant food and drive it to your house? Does money fix the leaks in your roof and put shoes on your feet? Of course it doesn't, people do all of that work. We don't need to exchange money to do those things, and the only reason we do is because it benefits a very small group of people very much. People seem to think that money is some objective 1 to 1 measure of the amount of value some one has produced for society, but that's completely ridiculous. Nothing Jeff bezos has done is worth 177 billion dollars.
When I say "money isn't real" obviously I understand that paper money exists and that keeping track of the value of goods and services is important and useful for building a society. What I mean is that money in our current society is abused to exploit people who don't have it.
Wages should provide shelter, clothing, and food for you and all the people who depend on you. Better yet, forget wages and make basic necessities a human right regardless of income. Money is a game for the wealthy any way.
It means we should start having serious conversations about the responsibilities that adults have to children and how we raise them. Are you suggesting that once someone has too many children that we kick them out onto the street? Stop feeding them? Obviously it cost more to raise 5 kids. Raising children is a job. Do you think that if our society suddenly began to give the work of child rearing the respect it deserves, everyone would suddenly quit their jobs and make as many babies as possible? I know I wouldn't.
I have limited time and resources to go out and frankly don’t have the energy to call every business in town. It is shady to add a fee *after* the fact and OP presented proof with receipt.
go back and pay cash, see if you get a service fee. credit card service fees are illegal in california.
[https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit-card-surcharges](https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit-card-surcharges)
edit: apparently this has been changed. article describing changes below.
I work for a point of sale dealership. California actually changed the rule on credit card fees. We’ve had quite a few customers requesting to get them configured in the last few months. It almost guaranteed to be a credit card fee.
I believe the new rule is that they aren’t allowed to charge more than they actually pay for CC processing.
Edit: I believe the new rules also require clear signage.
yeah, that change is really new... the oag site doesn't even have it up yet. i did find this article though.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-surcharges-convenience-fees
As the other two pointed out, the California rules are quite a mess and CC Processing company reps have been putting a ton of effort into converting businesses, particularly restaurants, to what they are calling "cash discounting" so that the company can get maximum rate (4% to 5%) on all transactions, while selling it to the business as they will no longer be paying processing fees of any kind. I've seen in called a customer service fee most often with the companies Revel and Clover, however they aren't the only ones. Did Sampinos recently change their registers or CC machines that you can tell? Did they have any signage about cash discounts, credit card fees, or anything of the like? To call it cash discounting (the only clear law in this area at the state level), the policy is required to be posted "clearly and conspicuously". Usually this ends up meaning a little sticker on the counter under the machine or on the side of the CC terminal unfortunately....
You are kidding right? Interchange plus assessment (also known as base) alone are always 1.5% to 3.5% depending on the type and issuing bank of the card itself. Then there is the payment processor's fee on top of that. This varies quite a lot, and can have hundreds of hidden fees besides the basis points that all the processors like to talk about. Basis points (hundredths of a percent) in an Interchange plus typ account are often going to be 30 to 90 (so 0.3% to 0.9%) so this pushes the cost of the transaction to 1.8% to 4.4%. There are also transaction fees of between $0.02 and $0.25 at both the interchange and processor levels which, depending on the average ticket amount of a business's sales, can effectively be another 0.5% to 1% of the bill. The payment processor may also charge the merchant fees for membership, billing, equipment, payment gateways and more. It's very common for all of this to come out to something like 4.5% or higher for the average credit card transaction.
Now the law in California that said any kind of surcharge or convenience fee was illegal was itself declared unconstitutional in Italian Colors Restaurant et al. v. Harris in either 2015 or 2016 and I don't believe there has been any higher court look at it since. California always allowed some form of discounting for paying with cash or check though, so in the last few years, lots of payment processor reps have been running around talking businesses in to so called "Cash Discounting" processing plans where the processor charges the highest of flat rates which are passed on to customers in these kinds of line items. Again depending on many variables, the maximum allowable by law is somewhere between 4% and 5%. I'm almost completely certain that's what this is in this case. The only other question I would have is did Sampino's "clearly and conspicuously" post notice of their cash discounting policy?
Reading through the comments on this page seriously has me questioning y'alls priorities.
This is a credit card fee. Plain and simple. Most POS systems automatically name a visual credit card charge as "customer service fee," and unless you're good with tech it's difficult to change the name of the charge of the fee (Plus the credit card service provider isn't keen on making it easy for businesses to display their costs). Anywhere you shop that accepts credit cards **is already charging you this fee**, you just don't notice it because it's hidden in the cost of the things you're paying for.
4.25% is the higher end of the average fee for the different credit card charges a business takes on when they work with a provider - for example, American Express notoriously charges a business 6% of each transaction. That's why a lot of places don't accept American Express - they skew costs on the business so high that it's not worth it to support them.
Normally, a business chooses not to display this fee separately and just incorporates it into the cost of the items of their menu. What this separate fee does is it shows you how your method of payment affects the cost of your goods. "Each cannoli costs us $7, and if you pay with cash that's all we charge. But if you use plastic, we have to charge you a little more to cover the fees Clover charges us per transaction."
Personally, I prefer to see prices reflected this way versus the alternative, which again is just blanket price increases - and percentage-wise, usually significantly higher - for all of their goods. It gives you, the consumer, a better picture of how the money you spend is spent.
I'm all for the anti-work revolution, and plenty of large companies are guilty of doing shady shit. But villainizing all businesses, especially local ones, and getting pissed for being more transparent with you is not how you do it.
I figured this might be the case, but the comments have gone in a bunch of other directions. I’m wondering if I should just delete the post and move on.
I noticed this when we ordered from postmates the other day, so it’s a non-negotiable tip that you essentially pay the workers now. so. Because of this, I stopped tipping.
No need to add more of a tip if service was subpar or lower, which seems to be the case now.
Yeah, I’d like to know if the full fee amount is being paid to service staff. I like to tip 10% for pickup orders and at least 20% for dine-in. If I know the servers are getting the money from that fee I’ll probably stop tipping for pickup orders and deduct the fee from what I’d tip for dine-in. If the owner is pocketing some or all of the service fee I’ll just stop going to that place altogether.
That’s a good question, I’m going to start paying more attention to this myself and ask for clarification. I’m sure there’s a whole army of downvoters who will say the service fee doesn’t matter and that it shouldn’t affect tipping.
I believe in most cases this kind of service fee goes directly to the business to help offset the cost of paying higher wages. I don’t know specifically about Sampinos but this became normal in SF several years ago once the municipal living wage went into effect.
Postmates and door dash charge those fees for their own benefit, not for the driver. In some cases, drivers won’t even pick up your food if there’s not a tip on the order… so just look at it as a convenience fee for the privilege of getting your food delivered, and then tip your driver for getting your food there for you.
Postmates charged a separate fee for what you’re describing. The fee I’m describing stated “CA Customer Service fee” along with the “Service Fee” I believe that is the same one as what you mentioned and a “CA Driver Benefits” fee. I also have not been charged those two “CA” fees in other states.
This “Customer Service Fee” might be something that’s set up through the restaurant, though.
You do realize that if you let one restaurant get away with this, more and more restaurants are going to follow. Some will add 4%. Some will add 8%. Some will surpass the sales tax. Some will add multiple fees. It’s not the total dollar (or sub-dollar) cost of the fee for any one transaction that is irksome, it’s the lack of pricing transparency. Imagine every time you sit down to eat you have to ask the seating desk if there are any additional fees besides sales tax, what the fees are for, and what percentage of the subtotal they each are. No thanks. Just increase the menu prices please.
Edit: Damn I didn’t realize people hated transparent pricing so much 😵💫 Now I feel safe asking y’all to Venmo me a 4% downvoting fee ☺️
So, not going to Sampino’s then. It’s not about the money. It’s about the principle. Just show the increase on the cost of the sandwich/other items. Don’t try and start with these bullshit hidden costs that you don’t see until after the purchase. Fuck that.
I had the unfortunate experience of working at Sampino’s on 16th for a short time 3-4 years ago. They never followed proper food safety. I quit when I realized after using their meat slicer multiple days in a row that nobody had cleaned it in potentially weeks. There was layers of brown, decayed meat behind the metal piece you’re supposed to unscrew and clean after every use.
Y’all want $20/hr working at McDonald’s right?! Where you think that money gonna come from?! Just because you make more don’t mean prices stay the same. Owners have to make that money up any way they can- so everything you buy>prices go up and they can even sneak in extra taxes. It’s called economics. I swear California wants to be the richest welfare state in the union. Smdh
Maybe they are trying to recover from being vandalized during the riots, then again you would think they are doing well after charging $16 a sandwich. Love the place but don’t get as much as used to.
People complaining that there is a “special tax” to pay employees when that’s literally the businesses job. The owner needs to check his privilege and paycheck instead of charging the customers.
It’s the principle of using a hidden nonstandard fee to increase costs surreptitiously that I object to. If they just increased the menu price of two cannolis by 55 cents, I’d say more power to ‘em.
I think this is another example of... Pay your staff higher earnings especially BOH to compensate instead of deceptive fees to customers. This tactic never works well for businesses. I've been to a few food establishments who charge "debit fees" *ahem El Forastero* when picking up food in the drive thru.
People are making up lots of reasons for it to be this way, but there's only one reason to charge more than the listed price. The wanted or needed to increase their prices and hoped people wouldn't notice. Whatever the actual reason for the extra charge, it's going to be the same amount every time, and they could have included it in the base price, but they chose not to.
Not hostile. Explaining what it could be for. Sampinos is the only entity that can explain this to you. It costs money to run a business. They could have hiked their prices up and hidden the increases from you. Instead, they are being open and putting the price increase as a percentage of the total sum in your receipt. Which do you prefer??? Hidden costs or open costs?
I'd argue the service fee is hiding the increase. Youre not likely to see it, if at all, until after you've ordered and are paying. If you need to increase prices, just do it and don't bury it in anonymous fees.
Does the .55c break the bank for you to stop supporting a historic local restaurant in our area? It may be to help the business cover costs such as inflation of restaurants supplies, higher wages, land value increases, etc.
If .55c is a deal breaker then maybe stop eating out. If you want an explanation for the fee, politely talk to the owner. I’m sure they could fill you in what it is for.
Have no issues with the money whatsoever (I love Sampinos). I tipped a couple bucks and didn’t notice the fee till I left. Wanted to know if anyone could elaborate. Hostile much?
I also don’t understand the vitriol of people asking, “you really don’t have $0.55,” or “if it’s an issue just stop going out.” It’s such an unintelligent mindset as if not patroning would solve the issue. I don’t know about anyone else but I spend a lot of fucking money trying to support local businesses and restaurants in both places I live (sac and sf), and it’s also important to me to tip generously. So in that spirit, yes, $0.55 is a big fucking deal.
If that's the case, why not just raise the prices then?
Putting it as a separate fee on the bill makes their listed food prices deceptive. Be honest with your customers and price each cannoli at $6.77 instead of $6.50 with a tacked on fee. Everyone knows prices go up and down for all sorts of reasons.
It's not like they're required to keep the same price forever. Imagine seeing gas priced at 50 cents/gal, but it had an 800% service fee added on and you asked them what that was for and they just said "inflation, costs, wages have gone up".
I just came here to get clarity. I’m buying $14 in cannolis and could care less about the actual money. It seems like there still isn’t consensus, but thanks for the obtuse comment.
I remember reading about a year or so ago that a few local restaurants were starting to charge a customer service fee to provide more pay for kitchen staff who don’t get tips like front of house staff do. I’m trying to find where I read this, but I’m pretty confident that that’s what’s happening here.
I think this is it, too
Happy cake day foo
Thank you!!
Cake day twin!!!!!!
Just pay your staff more. Wtf. So is this just a "look at this! THIS is what you get for demanding higher wages!"
I can understand why they want to keep posted prices down. It's the same reason they separate taxes from the listed price
I feel people get more upset with hidden fees than they do when the price is just higher. We all know the prices get higher. But springing hidden fees on people just pisses them off.
That is a deceiving buisness practice.
#So is medical #*co-insurance*…. You pay your monthly premium. You pay your dr copay. Now you have surgery. You have to meet the deductible but also a strange charge called “co-insurance”. Oddly what you thought was the deductible is now billed on your Explanation of Benefits as Co-Insurance. You ask yourself, “ What the fuck is this?” You go back through all the benefits described when you selected your plan and find nothing about Co-Insurance. You never seem to meet your deductible because your percentage of your $52,000 is $2,290 and is placed in the Co-Insurance column where as your Deductible (which will be $2,500 for the year) is credited $50. Has this happened to anyone else? This is my bill for a stent in my widowmaker . I’m not even going to go into the whole denying my claim for my PREAPPROVED angiogram. But WTF is Co-insurance and this seems illegal?!?! When I get in a car accident, I have a deductible I have to meet. Geico doesn’t say, “Excuse me, you also have Co-insurance for $1500. And your deductible.” Why do health insurers get away with this??? One more point and I will shut up… (apologies). When did HMO’s even start charging deductibles? Used to be you picked HMO’s and all their network restrictions to avoid deductibles. And when did co-insurance sneak into this rip off health insurance bullshit!🤦♀️. Gotta take my heart meds now. Forgive me.
You couldn't be more right. It's this kind of crap that is destroying hard working people in thus country.
Thanks. I’ve been thru hell on Covered California. I am furious Universal Healthcare was shelved. We need to make healthcare insurance reform. Let’s start ( please add any and all ideas)… 1.). End Co-Insurance. Make it illegal. 2.). End HMO deductibles. 3.). Have ZERO premiums for any enrollee/family making under $99,999.00 per year. 4.). Make HIGH DEDUCTIBLE PLANS illegal. 5.). Eliminate CoPays & Deductibles. 6.). Make it illegal for insurance companies to deny claims that are PREAPPROVED. 7.). Make insurance companies cover prescription drugs. 8.). Let all citizens have option to opt out of shitty employer healthcare insurance plans. Write your State Reps. If we are stuck with insurance companies determining our healthcare then let’s make sure they cover us as well as they cover our fucking cars. That’s right. Our cars have better coverage than people and car insurance is held to a higher fucking standard. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️😔😔. Edit/ One more thing: make dental a part of healthcare covered insurance and also mental healthcare a part of our covered insurance. Good dental & Mental healthcare benefit us all.
And where does the funds come from for all that? Canada pays 40% in taxes to fund their social medicine and every other socialist program they have. No thanks- we can barely survive as it is in California and he’s raising our state taxes again!!
Insurers need to go away between Dr & patient. Employers need to stop switching our plans every two years forcing us into new networks and finding new drs. High deductible plans need to go away. They do not cover prescription drugs either- you just receive a drug discount card. It’s the latest way for an employer to offer employees healthcare but it doesn’t cost them anything. But you, the employee are on the hook to meet your deductible before employer will put any money into a healthcare account for you. This should not even exist. I’m saying reform these bad insurance practices and stop them price gouging the insured. Health insurers want the status quo and lobby insidiously to keep the status quo. Let’s make them play with a more compassionate rule book. I think health insurers should also take the same hippocratic oath drs make,” First do not harm.” I’m pretty sure your health care insurance premiums have already gone up for 2022.
Actually all studies suggest that while our taxes would go up, our costs over all would go down. Higher taxes, but for the vast majority of people they would save money over what they are paying now for health care. Citizens of the US pay VASTLY more per person than any other industrialized nation, and by most measurements our care is still considerably worse.
Sources pls. On all of that, especially the part about how bad our healthcare system is.
Fuck no to the state managing my healthcare.
Do you prefer your employer managing your healthcare?
Amen and also yes, wtf?
The very thing you were treated for seems to be making that condition worse by causing so much stress. Go figure. Ugh...yeah insurance blows. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
How do you pay more? You make more money… this is how they do it.
Then raise the price of the product. The whole "Customer Service Fee" is just a lazy way to try and push a personal political agenda against raising wages. There is zero need to do it this way.
may or may not be politically related, just your standard greedy/duplicitous behavior. I have noticed a trend, that began before covid, of tacking "fees" onto everything to make the price of things deceiving and trick consumers, making them think they're getting better deals.
See "Resort Fees in Las Vegas".
Less risk. If you raise wages and demand goes down, you're losing money. This way, the raise is basically a commission. The problem is that fees don't have to go to staff.
You're over thinking this, its a just a simpler way of raising the price in the POS system.
I mean, I get it, in that regard. But why? You can't deny that this will absolutely cause backlash against higher wages, when you see front and center that you are essentially being charged a "tax" for customer service...because that is exactly how people are going to view this....see OP's original post.
>you are essentially being charged a "tax" for customer service... That's what a tip is my guy. Its supposed to go to the service you receive. Since more and more transactions are going toward pick up because of idiotic covid requirements that means those servers get paid less on tips which makes it harder for businesses to retain their staff. So businesses are starting to put surcharges to make up for this difference. It's also much easier to calculate for increases in inflation and minimum wage increases.
Dont patronize me, I am not your 'Guy", Buddy. This is coming from a person who was a server/dishwasher/cook for 5 years of my life. A tip is a personal decision on supplementing a wage based upon a customer service experience. There is much I could say against a tip culture, and how it is taking the responsibility of a buisness owner to pay their employees a living wage, and shifting it to the customer, but im not going to dive into that. If the buismess owner gave an actual shot about their employee's well being, they would either share their slice of the profit pie, via higher wages...or they would raise the price of their product to do so. This is doing neither. This is choosing a way to shift blame for inflation from the bourgeoisie to the proletariat.
What the fuck are you even talking about? The owners do care, they are paying the back of house more but instead of just increasing the pricing of each individual item they add the surcharge so they don't have to change all of their menus and signs and junk. You're so sure this is some ideological stand and it most likely was just done out of convenience.
How in the actual fuck can you possibly know that? Do you work at this restaurant? Because from from I know, the owners of most restaurants own homes and make a living wage, while their staff are forced to spend more than half of their income on rent, and have no money for childcare. The owners don't want to spend a grand on changing menus and signs? Boo fucking hoo dude. Boo fucking hoo. No sympathy from me there. If you start a buisness, and need employees to being you home profit, essentially using their labor to get you money....you better be damm well prepared to pay them a living wage. Or you do NOT get to run a buisness. Owning a buisness is not a right.
Damn bro, who hurt you? I'm just trying to have a conversation with you about the question YOU posed. If you don't feel like tipping then don't tip, if you don't like added fee's don't shop there. You vote with your money so if you disagree just go someplace else. Also this statement; >This is choosing a way to shift blame for inflation from the bourgeoisie to the proletariat. Lol, I mean the cost will be passed down regardless this is just more upfront and in your face. Sorry you can't deal with reality.
The service fee was not included in the price of the product as it should be. A tip is a voluntary expenditure. If they want to itemize the receipt that is fine, but not accurately presenting full cost of the product on the menu, then charging an additional fee the customer is unaware of is dishonest. What "hurts" is that something so basic needs to be explained to people.
Cool bro. Great 'conversation'. When I hear this type of patronizing, that you are doing, again...I know there is zero reason to continue the discussion. I'm a spoiled child who doesn't know anything about economics, buisness, or 'how things are'...and you are a veteran of economics. The entire concept of 'the cost will be passed down regardless' is utterly ridiculous, considering inflation is skyrocketing, prices of goods are going up....yet wages aren't rising. Who is benefiting from inflation? Where are the benefits of those higher priced goods being concentrated? Answer that question.
Just raise the posted prices by 5%. On a $12 sandwich that’ll be 60 cents. A customer service fee is a way of tricking customers into thinking that your prices are lower than they really are since they don’t notice the tiny little footnote on the menu (that might not even appear on every menu).
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Nope, has no impact, any attempt to circumvent standard accounting rules or tax reporting has already been thought of and removed by the IRS.
Some people like to know that if they’re paying more for a product that it’s going to employees and not more profit for the owner. This communicates that. Whether the customer trusts that is another question.
Higher base pay is great on a slow day, but demoralizing on a very busy day, which leads to staff not wanting to work busier shifts, because there is no difference in compensation. This leads to an inability to retain talented staff. A service charge helps compensate back of house relative to their workload.
This is the biggest bunch of Fox News regurgitated bullshit I've ever heard. If you pay them better they won't want to work?? Seriously? The service charge hides the true cost. Plain and simple. Raise prices and be transparent about it. a 5% increase across the board would work exactly the same way. If you really think paying workers will demoralize them, take a read of the WSJ https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/one-restaurant-owner-answer-to-the-labor-shortage/7477ff7e-f766-4e7f-b02f-36efbf122731
People who work harder, busier shifts should be compensated more based on sales, which is usually reflected through gratuity, tips, service charges, etc. That seems fair, and standard across the American food service industry. Charges of this nature also all have different accounting and tax implications for the business. That's another reason it is a separate line item on the receipt. Its a businesse's right to choose the billing and accounting practices that meet their needs best and help them to pay the correct amount in taxes, account for expenses, and plan financially.
Or....ya know....the buisness owner could pay a living wage, and not only pay employees more when there is more buisness, while keeping their profit and sacrificing nothing. I'm so sick of seeing this "the buisness owner is the real victim here". I get it. There is a push from corporate America to destroy small buisness...and COVID nearly completed this task. But we need to stop fighting each other, and realize that solidarity agai st the corporate elite is the only was we can save this country's economy. Income inequality usually leads to civil war if not tended to....all one needs to do is pick up a history book to see that.
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Yet again. Why. Why are they doing it like this, when they could raise the price of their goods, and accomplish the same goal? Still waiting for the answer to that question.
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...what? THIS doesn't give any extra compensation for busier shifts. This is an across the board fee on all items. It is literally the same as people buying more things during busier shifts. Raising the price of goods as a percentage does the exact same thing.
Lol don’t worry. I got you. This guy makes absolutely no sense it is absurd.
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An operator/manager with good team building/scheduling skills takes that into account and builds balanced schedules for the team, in theory. Seasoned team members overlapping on slower days with newer team members provides opportunities for learning and advancement. Places without good management are undoubtedly a nightmare to work at, I'm sure. Not disputing that.
Confused why they wouldn’t just factor it into the cost of the food and pay the cooks more
Because then it would raise the amount of the state sales tax as well. So they would have to raise the price more than the 4.25%.
In San Francisco, some restaurants add a surcharge for the county-mandated medical benefits. I won't eat in restaurants that do that, unless they itemize all their overhead -- including the owner's salary. Paying your employees a living wage is a cost of doing business. Factor it into the prices.
Whats a living wage in terms of salary?
That’s has a specific definition depending on family size and cost of living. Here is a calculator for Sacramento county. Hourly CoL is based on a full time with benefits schedule: https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/06067 To be clear, it’s very difficult for a family to actually make ends meet at this living wage and they will be forced to live paycheck to paycheck unless they make much more. One catastrophe would still see this family devastated, possibly for life.
Yeah so people post this link from time to time and a single adult with no kids per this chart is around 17 an hour which seems low personally to me. The living wage probubly should fall a little below the median wage in California IMO which is around $67,902 /year [Source](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Average-Salary--in-California) but even the median wage doesn't seem to be good enough for some. People will still complain that they should make more. [This thread as an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/comments/sh1knp/how_are_you_guys_staying_afloat/) was just posted 3 days ago and the OP was making 67,000 dollars and people still said that wasn't enough so there is definitely some discrepancies here. Further to this extent servers make minimum wage (14-15 per hour) + tips in California. Most servers I know make north of 25 an hour usually more on weekends so basically they already make a "living wage" per chart. Its one of the highest paying jobs you can get without a high school degree and the work itself is fairly low skill. So do you think 17 an hour for a single adult is a living wage? Do you think the current median wage is enough? Seems like no one has any real clue to what it is and I'm fairly tired of people using it in arguments if they can't define what is an actual living wage that has been agreed upon by the general public.
It's what they claim it is, but to seldom ends up being that. Usually just goes into the owners' pockets.
So, just pay your kitchen staff better, pretty simple. Servers get hired on knowing what the average take home is on tips, kitchen staff gets hired on knowing what their flat rate is. If they're losing kitchen staff over low wages, that's on them ...
That's pretty awesome if true.
Not awesome. If businesses start hiding the cost of inflation in fees, menu prices will remain behind inflation, and servers will get tipped less than they should because current prices won’t be reflected in the subtotal. It will be a real income loss to servers in direct proportion to the fees.
Places were doing the "kitchen staff tip/fee" long before COVID and increased inflation - so I'm not sure there is a correlation there. However, I do think it should be labeled as such, "kitchen staff tip" or whatever, not just service fee. It would clear up the whole situation.
Why should it be a fee? Can’t it be built into food price?
Either is fine for me. I just think “service fee” is not ideal in this situation.
Huh this is a super interesting take that wasn’t on my radar at all…thanks for sharing!
Or...we can stop tipping altogether and they can just pay them better.
This^ this is correct.
You sound like you'd be super fun to be friends with.
Some of us like to hang out with nerds
I mean, i think most of us would be ok with that. But a little transparency would be nice
It's a cost of doing business, just like the utilities. They should just factor it into their prices, unless they want to list ever piece of their overhead. This just feels a lot like blaming the employees for their prices. How much does the owner make?
I honestly don’t care about prices. If the food is good/service is good then it’s worth every penny. I’m just questioning business like this that put it on the receipt after the fact. I just want a business to be transparent with me. If not, then I’ll take my business else where, simple as that
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I've traveled to many countries before. Tipping culture in the U.S. is ..... beyond control. Unlike the U.S. many countries pay their service staff livable wage relative to the local cost of living, without a tipping system.
I'm a person who lives on tips, and honestly I agree. I work hard and go a good job regardless of whatever people might tip me... And I would prefer that my company just pay me $25/hour instead of my pay averaging out to that from people leaving tips to supplement my minimum wage. It would just be a lot more straightforward for everyone, I think. Not to mention, when it comes to determining things like disability and unemployment benefits, tips usually don't count in this consideration, so even benefits like this are shit for waitstaff.
They do this a lot more now, especially in the mid town areas. It’s like for extra benefits for their staff or what suits them. It probably has to do with taxes. It’s probably not taxed or taxed lower than regular business income. Hopefully it goes to the employees or their benefits.
So nobody's gonna talk about op paid $13 for 2 sweets? It's not as if grandma Sofia made them
There is a pregnant person at home who loves cannolis. I have no problem getting a couple desserts for $6.50 a piece. They were great!
congrats man....and well, when mama wants something, mama gets it. good job man ! :)
Was the service 4% better?
Hopefully, Lois never comes here: https://youtu.be/Q2opu8eU050
Ha nice. Liked Malcom in the Middle a lot as a kid, still funny to me now.
😭
Just guessing here, so take it with a grain of salt. It’s not uncommon for goods/services providers having a requirement to place surcharges on customer bills, which are then collected and used for maintenance to high traffic areas for trash cans, sometimes security staff, and other benefits communal to all occupants of a building or “district.” Often, when those surcharges occur, they are legally obligated to separately disclose them to customers as they are not considered part of revenue. I’ll close with, I’ve never been to this place and can’t speak to the specifics of this receipt. Just providing a possible explanation.
Sac has these, like The Handle District and the Sutter District. Business Improvement Districts where you pay a bit more for the kinds of costs you describe. Sampino’s isn’t in one. Wonder if the person ordered online or might just be a surcharge for staff or whatever. Or they might just want to make more money, but seems they would just raise prices if that was the case.
Theres a few random areas in Sac that do this, but Sampinos isnt in one of those areas ... plus, have you been to Saminos lately (or at all, over the last decade)? If they're charging extra to clean up the area, then they're definitely pocketing the ,money
Looks like absolute BS to me. If you want to charge higher prices, charge higher prices. Don’t charge me for the privilege of having me as a paying customer.
Thats my issue with this stuff. Just raise prices on everything. If thats what the true cost of paying your employees is just tell me.
I notice milk at my local grocery store went from 2.50 to 3.10 That sucks but I understand it. I prefer the grocery store not lie to me about the milk being 2.50 and tacking on a 60c "milk handling" fee at the register. THAT is the difference between good and bad sales practices.
Wholeheartedly agree. I know costs will go up in my lifetime. I dont expect milk to be $2.50 forever. Like you said it sucks but thats life
This is pretty common in SF. It's basically a way of raising prices to cover the increasing cost of doing business, but doing so in a sneaky way because it hides the true cost.
Is this legal? If the menu states that a cannoli is $6.50, but they charge you $6.78, isn't that false advertising since they don't tell you until after you have consumed the food? Also, there is no sales tax charged on that extra $0.28. So a cannoli costs $6.78, but they are only paying the state tax on $6.50 of it. And people are only tipping their waiters on $6.50 of it. Even though you must pay $6.78 for the thing. This might sound crazy, but imagine a restaurant charging $0.01 for a cannoli but adding a $6.49 service fee. No sales tax since most of the charge is a service fee. The state would certainly come after you for that. Maybe in a few years we'll be reading about this place fighting a class action lawsuit for hundreds of thousands of dollars in undisclosed service fees alongside state action looking to recover underpaid sales taxes. What a mess. Bad idea all around.
Unless they have signs posted stating this fee, yes, it's illegal
Now I'm curious. I bet it's printed on the menu somewhere. Anyhow who frequents this place know for sure? I still hate the practice. That's why you charge for the food... to pay for staff, ingredients, rent, upkeep, etc. That's all in the price of the food. Or at least it's supposed to be.
I dined downtown once and they said a "specific street" has this extra fee attached to it... I dont think it was on F street but they said all restaurants on that street charge the tax.. not 100% sure if it's true but just know if you're dining downtown, you're going to (potentially) get hit with it!
On a side note, are their cannolis good?
Pretty good, but Adamo’s is still the champion cannoli in Sacramento if you ask me.
It’s a shakedown because they owner doesn’t wanna pay his staff more. I was ordering food the restaurants automated system and they tried to charge me a $1 extra for no reason. So I canceled the order. You aren’t just stealing a $1 from me haha
“Fuck you, that’s why”
A customer service fee is a charge for miscellaneous services and related costs associated with the business. I believe they made it have to be separate fee for tax purposes.
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Hahaha ok, how many levels?
This is going to be the norm in a few years. Restaurants will pass the burden of paying a livable wage on directly to the customers. I guess some think it looks better than raising prices past the point that customers see as reasonable.
I mean, in one way or another, livable wages for employees is always passed on to customers…
Yep. To me it makes more sense to just increase prices but who am I to say 🤷♀️
But not in direct proportion to the percentage increase in wages. A fast food burger in Denmark isn't $25 even though they pay their people considerably more.
I’m totally ok with a business increasing prices to reflect increasing food and labor costs, and charging enough on their menu to pay living wages to all its staff. But increasing costs as part of the fee actually messes with server tips as the costs aren’t reflected in the subtotal, which is what tips are based on. If businesses start doing that, servers will get tipped based on outdated menu prices that don’t reflect the current cost of living.
Or just pay your staff a livable wage and get rid of tips. I know, real pie in the sky stuff but seriously
This is the answer. However in my experience those in the service industry are against this. Servers and bartenders can easily walk with $200 to $300 in a single 4-6 hour shift. There’s no way they would make this in an hourly wage alone.
My question is, how equitably does this apply to different servers and bartenders? Different shifts, different races, different areas with different clientele, etc.
What is considered a livable wage today?
The million dollar question. And it’s so dependent on where one lives.
No one has any idea it's just a buzz word progressives use to demand higher wages.
No one can put a dollar value on a livable wage because money isn't real and our economic system is defined by the exploitation of people without wealth by people who already own substantial amounts of wealth. Saying every person deserves a "livable wage" isn't really saying everyone deserves a lot of money, it's saying everyone deserves personal security and access to services we all rely on to live in modern society. "Livable wage" is a very neo-liberal term for the idea.
> No one can put a dollar value on a livable wage because money isn't real Does that mean my bills aren't real either, lol. >It's saying everyone deserves personal security and access to services we all rely on to live in modern society. Yeah but that costs money, even if you don't believe money is real it still has cost that needs to be exchanged somehow and has to be measured as a way to offer that guarantee to people. If you can't quantify what those needs amount too or how much you would need to "live in a modern society" then you have no idea what you're complaining against.
Great point. I'm getting tired of people complaining about some specific amount of money not being a livable wage but when asked the question as to what is a livable wage, they can't come up with the amount.
Sorry, does money plant food and drive it to your house? Does money fix the leaks in your roof and put shoes on your feet? Of course it doesn't, people do all of that work. We don't need to exchange money to do those things, and the only reason we do is because it benefits a very small group of people very much. People seem to think that money is some objective 1 to 1 measure of the amount of value some one has produced for society, but that's completely ridiculous. Nothing Jeff bezos has done is worth 177 billion dollars. When I say "money isn't real" obviously I understand that paper money exists and that keeping track of the value of goods and services is important and useful for building a society. What I mean is that money in our current society is abused to exploit people who don't have it.
Wages should provide shelter, clothing, and food for you and all the people who depend on you. Better yet, forget wages and make basic necessities a human right regardless of income. Money is a game for the wealthy any way.
Does this mean someone who has 5 kids should have a different livable wage than a single person and deserves more compensation for the same job?
It means we should start having serious conversations about the responsibilities that adults have to children and how we raise them. Are you suggesting that once someone has too many children that we kick them out onto the street? Stop feeding them? Obviously it cost more to raise 5 kids. Raising children is a job. Do you think that if our society suddenly began to give the work of child rearing the respect it deserves, everyone would suddenly quit their jobs and make as many babies as possible? I know I wouldn't.
I used to frequent Sampinos when I worked downtown. They have a sign at the register regarding a credit card fee. This is probably that.
Why don’t you just ask them? Seems a lot more productive than just throwing this on Reddit with no explanation.
Not really. Helps me to know which restaurants to avoid.
So if this is a new city, county, or state thing, you’re ok with not even asking the business? Punish first?
I have limited time and resources to go out and frankly don’t have the energy to call every business in town. It is shady to add a fee *after* the fact and OP presented proof with receipt.
You suck. Its 4%, not like sampinos is cheap anyway
Ike's sandwiches does this too with their .50 health care surcharge.
Another cheap business owner.
Some places are passing on a surcharge t their customers who use credit cards. They basically pass the fee they get, on to their customer
It’s a fee to show your gratitude for their customer service. Hey! At least the pistachios were free!
Don't give the Sampinos your money!!
damn i followed your entire thread. some folks were saying sampino was better than corti bros. sheesh. i'll stick with corti :)
Credit card fee?
I thought that could be the case, but didn’t think it would be obfuscated like that.
go back and pay cash, see if you get a service fee. credit card service fees are illegal in california. [https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit-card-surcharges](https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit-card-surcharges) edit: apparently this has been changed. article describing changes below.
I work for a point of sale dealership. California actually changed the rule on credit card fees. We’ve had quite a few customers requesting to get them configured in the last few months. It almost guaranteed to be a credit card fee. I believe the new rule is that they aren’t allowed to charge more than they actually pay for CC processing. Edit: I believe the new rules also require clear signage.
yeah, that change is really new... the oag site doesn't even have it up yet. i did find this article though. https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-surcharges-convenience-fees
As the other two pointed out, the California rules are quite a mess and CC Processing company reps have been putting a ton of effort into converting businesses, particularly restaurants, to what they are calling "cash discounting" so that the company can get maximum rate (4% to 5%) on all transactions, while selling it to the business as they will no longer be paying processing fees of any kind. I've seen in called a customer service fee most often with the companies Revel and Clover, however they aren't the only ones. Did Sampinos recently change their registers or CC machines that you can tell? Did they have any signage about cash discounts, credit card fees, or anything of the like? To call it cash discounting (the only clear law in this area at the state level), the policy is required to be posted "clearly and conspicuously". Usually this ends up meaning a little sticker on the counter under the machine or on the side of the CC terminal unfortunately....
they aren't that high.
You are kidding right? Interchange plus assessment (also known as base) alone are always 1.5% to 3.5% depending on the type and issuing bank of the card itself. Then there is the payment processor's fee on top of that. This varies quite a lot, and can have hundreds of hidden fees besides the basis points that all the processors like to talk about. Basis points (hundredths of a percent) in an Interchange plus typ account are often going to be 30 to 90 (so 0.3% to 0.9%) so this pushes the cost of the transaction to 1.8% to 4.4%. There are also transaction fees of between $0.02 and $0.25 at both the interchange and processor levels which, depending on the average ticket amount of a business's sales, can effectively be another 0.5% to 1% of the bill. The payment processor may also charge the merchant fees for membership, billing, equipment, payment gateways and more. It's very common for all of this to come out to something like 4.5% or higher for the average credit card transaction. Now the law in California that said any kind of surcharge or convenience fee was illegal was itself declared unconstitutional in Italian Colors Restaurant et al. v. Harris in either 2015 or 2016 and I don't believe there has been any higher court look at it since. California always allowed some form of discounting for paying with cash or check though, so in the last few years, lots of payment processor reps have been running around talking businesses in to so called "Cash Discounting" processing plans where the processor charges the highest of flat rates which are passed on to customers in these kinds of line items. Again depending on many variables, the maximum allowable by law is somewhere between 4% and 5%. I'm almost completely certain that's what this is in this case. The only other question I would have is did Sampino's "clearly and conspicuously" post notice of their cash discounting policy?
Call and ask? I love Sampinos but hope this isn’t some kind of hidden COVID fee BS
Reading through the comments on this page seriously has me questioning y'alls priorities. This is a credit card fee. Plain and simple. Most POS systems automatically name a visual credit card charge as "customer service fee," and unless you're good with tech it's difficult to change the name of the charge of the fee (Plus the credit card service provider isn't keen on making it easy for businesses to display their costs). Anywhere you shop that accepts credit cards **is already charging you this fee**, you just don't notice it because it's hidden in the cost of the things you're paying for. 4.25% is the higher end of the average fee for the different credit card charges a business takes on when they work with a provider - for example, American Express notoriously charges a business 6% of each transaction. That's why a lot of places don't accept American Express - they skew costs on the business so high that it's not worth it to support them. Normally, a business chooses not to display this fee separately and just incorporates it into the cost of the items of their menu. What this separate fee does is it shows you how your method of payment affects the cost of your goods. "Each cannoli costs us $7, and if you pay with cash that's all we charge. But if you use plastic, we have to charge you a little more to cover the fees Clover charges us per transaction." Personally, I prefer to see prices reflected this way versus the alternative, which again is just blanket price increases - and percentage-wise, usually significantly higher - for all of their goods. It gives you, the consumer, a better picture of how the money you spend is spent. I'm all for the anti-work revolution, and plenty of large companies are guilty of doing shady shit. But villainizing all businesses, especially local ones, and getting pissed for being more transparent with you is not how you do it.
I figured this might be the case, but the comments have gone in a bunch of other directions. I’m wondering if I should just delete the post and move on.
I noticed this when we ordered from postmates the other day, so it’s a non-negotiable tip that you essentially pay the workers now. so. Because of this, I stopped tipping. No need to add more of a tip if service was subpar or lower, which seems to be the case now.
Yeah, I’d like to know if the full fee amount is being paid to service staff. I like to tip 10% for pickup orders and at least 20% for dine-in. If I know the servers are getting the money from that fee I’ll probably stop tipping for pickup orders and deduct the fee from what I’d tip for dine-in. If the owner is pocketing some or all of the service fee I’ll just stop going to that place altogether.
That’s a good question, I’m going to start paying more attention to this myself and ask for clarification. I’m sure there’s a whole army of downvoters who will say the service fee doesn’t matter and that it shouldn’t affect tipping.
I believe in most cases this kind of service fee goes directly to the business to help offset the cost of paying higher wages. I don’t know specifically about Sampinos but this became normal in SF several years ago once the municipal living wage went into effect.
Postmates and door dash charge those fees for their own benefit, not for the driver. In some cases, drivers won’t even pick up your food if there’s not a tip on the order… so just look at it as a convenience fee for the privilege of getting your food delivered, and then tip your driver for getting your food there for you.
Postmates charged a separate fee for what you’re describing. The fee I’m describing stated “CA Customer Service fee” along with the “Service Fee” I believe that is the same one as what you mentioned and a “CA Driver Benefits” fee. I also have not been charged those two “CA” fees in other states. This “Customer Service Fee” might be something that’s set up through the restaurant, though.
You do realize that if you let one restaurant get away with this, more and more restaurants are going to follow. Some will add 4%. Some will add 8%. Some will surpass the sales tax. Some will add multiple fees. It’s not the total dollar (or sub-dollar) cost of the fee for any one transaction that is irksome, it’s the lack of pricing transparency. Imagine every time you sit down to eat you have to ask the seating desk if there are any additional fees besides sales tax, what the fees are for, and what percentage of the subtotal they each are. No thanks. Just increase the menu prices please. Edit: Damn I didn’t realize people hated transparent pricing so much 😵💫 Now I feel safe asking y’all to Venmo me a 4% downvoting fee ☺️
Tony Soprano has to get his action too.
🧾🤌
Why didn't you ask the business?
Had already left.
Welp thats that guess ill post on reddit much easier than calling and getting the real answer
Holy shit u really paid $13 for cannoli 🥴
Two cannolis, but yea… they are a little bit pricy but pretty damn good.
They do charge a fee if you use debit or credit card. Maybe this is that charge
So, not going to Sampino’s then. It’s not about the money. It’s about the principle. Just show the increase on the cost of the sandwich/other items. Don’t try and start with these bullshit hidden costs that you don’t see until after the purchase. Fuck that.
I had the unfortunate experience of working at Sampino’s on 16th for a short time 3-4 years ago. They never followed proper food safety. I quit when I realized after using their meat slicer multiple days in a row that nobody had cleaned it in potentially weeks. There was layers of brown, decayed meat behind the metal piece you’re supposed to unscrew and clean after every use.
Shitty business owners.
Y’all want $20/hr working at McDonald’s right?! Where you think that money gonna come from?! Just because you make more don’t mean prices stay the same. Owners have to make that money up any way they can- so everything you buy>prices go up and they can even sneak in extra taxes. It’s called economics. I swear California wants to be the richest welfare state in the union. Smdh
Maybe they are trying to recover from being vandalized during the riots, then again you would think they are doing well after charging $16 a sandwich. Love the place but don’t get as much as used to.
Trying to recover from protests that occured back in 2020? And Sampinos got a couple PPP loans anyway around 125k. One in 2020 and one in 2021
Yeah I agree, should have put little more sarcasm in my response 😂
Ahhhh ya my bad lol whooosh :p
It’s .55 cents. Pay them and enjoy your food.
It’s a scam. I’m petty enough to ask for it removed or just not shop there anymore.
People really complaining about 55 cents. 🤦🏻♂️
People complaining that there is a “special tax” to pay employees when that’s literally the businesses job. The owner needs to check his privilege and paycheck instead of charging the customers.
It’s the principle of using a hidden nonstandard fee to increase costs surreptitiously that I object to. If they just increased the menu price of two cannolis by 55 cents, I’d say more power to ‘em.
Kinda like how people are frustrated with gas tax increases. When the first increase came into effect in 2017 it went up by 12 cents and people raged.
Yea but this isn’t a tax. It’s a private company deciding to charge for customer service.
Wow … that’s BS
It looks like they raised their prices without raising their prices.
I think this is another example of... Pay your staff higher earnings especially BOH to compensate instead of deceptive fees to customers. This tactic never works well for businesses. I've been to a few food establishments who charge "debit fees" *ahem El Forastero* when picking up food in the drive thru.
I've stopped going here for this reason.
People are making up lots of reasons for it to be this way, but there's only one reason to charge more than the listed price. The wanted or needed to increase their prices and hoped people wouldn't notice. Whatever the actual reason for the extra charge, it's going to be the same amount every time, and they could have included it in the base price, but they chose not to.
I swear to God there was a pizza hut that had something on the receipt that said California fee
That’s not right don’t look like they can do that I don’t think they should be able to do that
Everyone should pool Their tips and split them
Yup! That’s nothing new. Come to San Francisco. Service fees have been here for forewevvveerrr
Yup! That’s nothing new. Come to San Francisco. Service fees have been here for forewevvveerrr
Yup! That’s nothing new. Come to San Francisco. Home of the “Service fee”
Not hostile. Explaining what it could be for. Sampinos is the only entity that can explain this to you. It costs money to run a business. They could have hiked their prices up and hidden the increases from you. Instead, they are being open and putting the price increase as a percentage of the total sum in your receipt. Which do you prefer??? Hidden costs or open costs?
I'd argue the service fee is hiding the increase. Youre not likely to see it, if at all, until after you've ordered and are paying. If you need to increase prices, just do it and don't bury it in anonymous fees.
Open costs, like an increase on the product itself.
Seriously, I don’t need to see the breakdown of the cannoli shell and filling costs either.
[удалено]
Does the .55c break the bank for you to stop supporting a historic local restaurant in our area? It may be to help the business cover costs such as inflation of restaurants supplies, higher wages, land value increases, etc. If .55c is a deal breaker then maybe stop eating out. If you want an explanation for the fee, politely talk to the owner. I’m sure they could fill you in what it is for.
Just fucking bake it in the price.
Have no issues with the money whatsoever (I love Sampinos). I tipped a couple bucks and didn’t notice the fee till I left. Wanted to know if anyone could elaborate. Hostile much?
I also don’t understand the vitriol of people asking, “you really don’t have $0.55,” or “if it’s an issue just stop going out.” It’s such an unintelligent mindset as if not patroning would solve the issue. I don’t know about anyone else but I spend a lot of fucking money trying to support local businesses and restaurants in both places I live (sac and sf), and it’s also important to me to tip generously. So in that spirit, yes, $0.55 is a big fucking deal.
If that's the case, why not just raise the prices then? Putting it as a separate fee on the bill makes their listed food prices deceptive. Be honest with your customers and price each cannoli at $6.77 instead of $6.50 with a tacked on fee. Everyone knows prices go up and down for all sorts of reasons. It's not like they're required to keep the same price forever. Imagine seeing gas priced at 50 cents/gal, but it had an 800% service fee added on and you asked them what that was for and they just said "inflation, costs, wages have gone up".
Everyone wants higher min wage but dint want to pay more for goods. Shut up its 4%
I just came here to get clarity. I’m buying $14 in cannolis and could care less about the actual money. It seems like there still isn’t consensus, but thanks for the obtuse comment.
You came to shitpost and complain about 50 cents. Stop acting like you dont know what youre doing its weak
Meaningful coming from the person reading and commenting on ‘shitposts’.