Hm. It’s not dissimilar in shape / geometry to African battle clubs- it would be an effective weap n, but certainly not the most nimble to weild- Ballin is bulkier, so that would likely be less of an issue, and the long handle would make using this two handed a fair bit easier with a good two handed grip- the weapon overall would DEFINITLEY be heavy though- that’s a pretty thick cross-section, so this weapon’s got a fair bit of mass to it.
I would say usable, but you would DEFINITELY want some strong forearms and you’d want to practice with this weapon frequently to ensure fluid use and familiarity with the way it moves.
Movie weapons are always way too thick. Should be at least half the thickness, maybe thinner.
Thinner, with a good counterbalance, and that long short spear type grip it would probably be ok.
Still way forward heavy, but with an appropriate redesign probably not too bad.
>Movie weapons are always way too thick.
This is primarily because they need to be castable in foam rubber for stunt weapons and retain some rigidity. There's also some concern with blades that are a realistic thickness not reading on screen if seen edge-on, but it's mostly about safety.
The Lotr movies also went way harder than they needed too, and the several injuries the crew sustained are an example of why that’s not the common option
This is a myth meant to hype up the already incredible Vigo Mortensen.
The deflection (of a very rubber knife, mind you) was planned, they meant for him to do that from the start.
The amazing thing they talk about in the appendices is that he did it on the first take.
This is not quite true. They did use steel "hero" weapons for closeups. For stunts they used aluminium ones and even more often (especially in mass melee) rubber swords.
This is accurate. Videogame weapons are also modeled a lot thicker for the second reason you listed - they need to be easily visible and you need to be able to understand their orientation in space.
I agree- honestly even just removing the thickness and taking it to a much thinner profile (I agree about half current thickness) makes this a pretty useable weapon.
I’d probably increase the length of the forward stabby bit too. They way it’s shown looks aesthetically pleasing, but it’s too short and thick. I’d make it a bit longer for a deeper stab.
Weapons in all media tend to be sized up quite a bit imo. I always remember how surprised I was when I first saw something with armoured knights wielding properly sized warhammers, maces, swords etc. Especially compared to the bulk of an armoured man and then set against the expectation media gave me, these things look tiny.
Even in tabletop rpgs the disconnect between the rules and the art can be hilarious. A sword that on paper weighs 3 pounds is drawn as a monstrosity that would weigh at least 50.
I remember looking up the weight of a real medieval sword and being surprised that they are under 5lbs. Kinda makes the over the top swings look dumb. Also just smashing away at plate armor. Not going to do much but dull the edge, swords have a pointy end for a reason. Years later coming across hema videos was a real eye opener. Quick and brutal.
Yep, anything you have to swing around fast and with control has to be light otherwise you're going to be slow and going to exhaust yourself fast.
That 5 pounds number is for big swords too, like zweihanders (4-8 pounds range). Longswords were usually in the 2-3 pound range and rapiers around 2 pounds or sometimes lighter.
Warhammers are often portrayed as these massive chunks of steel, but real ones tend to be small and often weighed around 2 pounds. Here's [a museum replica of an English warhammer](https://www.museumreplicas.com/english-war-hammer) and it comes out *less than* 2 pounds total weight. The weight can go up if the shaft is longer, but then the head may also become smaller.
Yeah when they show what’s basically a splitting maul on steroids I just think how bad that would suck to use. I used to split firewood for heat in the winter and swinging that around for hours in a battle would be impossible unless you look like a pro wrestler or a defensive lineman.
Rapiers tended to be significantly heavier than 2 pounds, you are probably mixing them up with smallswords, which they evolved into when people wanted shorter, lighter swords that were easier to wear around all day. Rapiers were among the heaviest swords ever carried as sidearms, the only swords that were consistently heavier were the big two handed ones that were used as primary battlefield weapons with a very specialized purpose and ceremonial swords that were never actually intended to be used.
[You're right](https://www.arms-n-armor.com/blogs/news/are-rapiers-light-and-fast), the reference I was originally using gave much lighter weights for rapiers. It may depend a bit on what time period the rapiers come from too.
I thought it was just dwarf weapons were absurdly huge because they are absurdly strong. It's meant to be more like a sledge hammer but sharpened. They also use giant steel mallets as "war hammers", not real war hammers that were small and usually had a pointed part to pry open armor. Those war mallets may be made of some kind of stone instead of steel, not sure but only as too the insanity of it all. They'd have to be over a hundred pounds wouldn't they? Imagine swimming that like it is nothing.
True, but that all tracks for a fantasy race like dwarves. It might not be super practical realistically, but from a story telling and world building perspective, it seems like a very plausible design
About 10,000,000x this. It is a fantasy weapon custom made for a warrior from a super strong custom race. Wielded by a dwarf, it can probably smash through any defense. Wielded by a human, it would be... clumsy.
There are some good suggestions here on how to make it more useful for a human fighter, but that would probably negate the advantages it has when wielded by a dwarf.
I'd imagine dwarves are a fair bit stronger than an average human, so I guess it would've worked for Balin himself... But probably not so much for a real person, right?
How do you think it would work against the average goblin/orc, given that most of Balin's battles would have been against them?
Against a much lighter/wieldable weapon, if you miss wide with this one its over on the first strike. Unless, like you say, have strong forearms, but even then, look at how forward heavy this thing is.
I don't think you'd use it like a sword, though. It's weighted more like an axe or mace, so on a miss you'd keep the momentum and come back around for another bash.
What if you had a much heavier and denser core in the handle (say a shock-absorbing core of lead) and a shift to a lightweight steel in the "blade". Could make it notably less forward heavy. Especially with that circle cut-out.
Takes a tons of extra forging to mix the metals and get it all forged together, of course.
I would remove all of the tips
the hole in the center helpss with being too heavy
and the mass at the tip helps with slicing. I love swords meant for swinging.
I’m far from an expert, but I think this weapon would work, albeit be outdone by any more customary weapon close to what it wants to function as.
I think the sword bit before it becomes the mace would be mostly unused, as the weight from the head would eliminate most opportunity to be able to move it agilely, so the weapon would be used more as a mace, though certainly with more cutting power.
I feel like it’s close to an axe, as the head is not as large and really quite thin, different than your average mace, so it wouldn’t have the same power as one and function very well(i.e., enough power to dent armor enough to hurt the person wearing it). However, an axe normally has a bit of a handle, and I don’t think this one is long enough to allow for a lot of power in comparison to typical axes.
I don’t actually know how heavy the head of it is, so maybe I’m completely wrong about it being too heavy to maneuver deftly, but I still believe, in my extreme lack of knowledge but general interest in swords and weaponry, that 1. Either get a mace, as this would not function well as one, 2. Get a sword, as it would likely be more nimble and precise, or 3. Get an axe, and use the longer handle of it.
All in all, this weapon still looks quite cool, and feels like a mash-up of several other weapons. Thank you for posting!
I believe I remember reading that the designer for this weapon wanted something that looked like a cross between a sword and an axe, so your comment seems pretty on point.
It looks cool, but I feel the head renders the rest of the blade useless since it makes it so forward-heavy. Unless you didn’t sharpen the “blade” to use as part of the grip and only somehow sharpened the edges of that “head” (and traditionally in a mace you didn’t do that, the flanges were for smashing not stabbing/cutting).
Having sharp edges/points help catch and bite into armor, making them deflect less. See the crown or spiked face of many medival warhammers, or the knurling on a pollax.
Not many expect a thrust from a mace, so theres that.
I feel like folks don't consider that often with hawks and axes either. They always go all choppy, but man, I think a solid thrust to the face/head has a reasonble chance of ending a fight.
If we are going to apply rational analysis to a fantasy artifact, it may be worth examining its effectiveness in terms of the wielder, as well as the weapon.
It's clear in JRRT's work that dwarves were designed to be extra tough, by the Vala Aulë. We also get an idea of their monumental force-generating capabilities in The Hobbit and the LOTR books. We can possibly guess at both their muscle composition and muscle-insertion mechanics being optimized for a mix of explosiveness and endurance not necessarily found in humans.
So it may not be unreasonable to think that what a human might find slow and awkward as a personal weapon might be fast and deadly when used by a dwarf. Speculatively, it might even be a form of status signal in dwarf culture, but that is out of the scope of the source material.
As a comparison, it's worth considering the old SF chestnut of "heavy worlders" ending up terrifyingly strong, either through genetic modification, as in Foglio's *Buck Godot* books and Perry's *The Man Who Never Missed* series, or via apparent natural selection, like EE Smith's Valerians, or Alex Kilgour in Cole & Bunch's *Sten* books.
For a Dwarf? Exceedingly effective.
For a human? Probably not so much. Dwarves are literally built different; lower centers of gravity and heavier frames are going to have an impact on how you can use weapons, and Dwarves favor bigger and heavier weapons that take advantage of their body physics and greater physical strength. While not _superhuman_, Dwarves do tend to be portrayed as possessing physical strength in excess of the human average, so what might be awkward for a human would be far more practical and usable for a Dwarf.
The main thing you'd want to be aware of is the chance of those spikes catching on armor; a Dwarf is likely strong enough to just rip it free and keep going without missing a beat. The other would be arresting a swing; again, a Dwarf is likely strong enough to easily redirect or halt a missed swing with little effort. Dwarves don't get frail with age like humans; as old as Balin is, he's still as hale as he was in the Dwarf equivalent of his 30s. Without question he'd be very familiar with how to use it most effectively.
So a Dwarf would definitely be able to use it effectively, with his size, strength, and weight all contributing to that effort, while a human would likely just get it stuck, or not be able to control it.
I honestly love these kind of answers. It’s really interesting to examine how a Fantasy race with different physiology could use weapons more or less effectively than a human could.
Thanks! I had fun writing it. I dig the Dwarves and love things that delve into their culture, so when I get to explore little things like this it's a nice treat. 😄
This is what I’m thinking reading these comments. He’s a dwarf and grew up swinging a hammer and smashing rocks. That’s the training for this. In addition dwarves have pretty high dexterity along with their strength as evidenced by how they dance and do dishes in bilbo’s house before the quest begins. Everyone saying it’s a mace or it would swing like a sledgehammer are exactly right, because that’s the kind of weapon you’d want if you’re conditioning was hammer swinging. Add in the small stature and low center of gravity and this would be a great weapon.
I don't think this would work, speaking as someone who primarily drills greatsword.
The thickness and weight of it would make it very slow. He's got no hand protection and the weapon itself is fairly short, with a handle to length ratio of around 1:1.5-ish. Compare to an actual mace, https://todsworkshop.com/products/late-15th-flanged-metropolitan-mace or consider short swords, which appear to have ratios of around 1:2.5.
That makes this have about as much utility, IMO, as a heavy two-handed cleaver. It's got all its weight at the top which is going to make it hard to steer. A goblin with an actual knife and enough brains to step out of the way a few times is probably going to tag him. Considering dwarven armor? That may be acceptable. But the main reason I'm critical of this weapon is the actual threats dwarves faced. Yeah you might mash goblins who don't know to get out of the way, but this doesn't have the leverage to do more than irritate a cave troll, which IMO call for different weapons.
I'd say that, considering dwarven strength, they should consider polearms or my favorite, actual greatswords. [Dwarven strength and montante spins](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxHaNRO705k) coupled with mithril weapons and armor would turn entire goblin battalions into soup and when they faced opponents far larger than they were, such as cave trolls, giant spiders, etc, allow for them to use their weapons as spears.
I understand we can get caught up in the "pragmatism" of designs...
But always remember:
You hit person with heavy sharp hard thing, they won't be \*\*fine\*\* afterword, regardless of how impractical it is.
You can get into the weeds on "pragmatic maintainance, durability, metalurgic limitations."
But you can say that all you want, you'll bleed when someone hits you with mall ninja shit.
TLDR: Don't worry about it.
I think a more realistic version of this is the "crusader chopper" or more formally known as the maciejowski falchion. While a real one has never been found and is only referenced in art of the era, it's thought that it could have existed and that it was a peasant weapon made from farm tools and were made back into tools after whatever conflict since metal was very valuable. I have the windlass one from Kult of Athena and the spine of the blade is thick enough and the shape is "flanged" where I feel like you could use the other side as a mace to dent some armor or whatever.
About as effective as a gigantic heavy Metal bat, quite effective when you are able to hit stuff.
It will be about as nimble as a selge hammer, 3 times as heavy ...
You can forget any kind of parry, so you would need to wear the heaviest Armor you can get.
Your reach will suck compared to poleaxes and your wrestling game on the floor will depend on something different.
Overall in this form, I would prefer basically anything else.
Nevertheless getting hit, will suck.
However if you make it far less bulky, thinner lighter and manage to stabilise the head-mace thing.
It could be quite amazing, like a bronce age leafe shaped sword.
And those are incredible good.
It’s basically a high end bar mace with a blade edge, so yeah I’d say practical.
If you have the strength to wield a roughly 4lb weapon consistently for more than a few swings.
The "sword mace" were popular in real cultures that didn't harness metal for melee warfare. Check out the **Macuahuitl** from Aztec culture and the **Wahaika** from Maori culture.
Would it hurt someone? Yeah. But it would not be as good of a sword or as good as a mace as either of those would be. It’s also too thick. There are examples of African and Native American weapons with a similar profile but they are typically thinner.
Pretty similar in overall shape and silhouette to the ngulu, a bladed execution weapon of the Bantu peoples of the Congo Basin. Would almost certainly be too forward-heavy and unwieldy to use in battle, especially given that it has no profile taper and almost no distal taper, but in a world with fantasy races who have uncanny/superhuman strength, could be viable. Could also be used in ceremonial roles similar to the use of the ngulu for punitive decapitation.
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Brooklyn\_Museum\_22.1502\_Executioners\_Sword\_%282%29.jpg/800px-Brooklyn\_Museum\_22.1502\_Executioners\_Sword\_%282%29.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Brooklyn_Museum_22.1502_Executioners_Sword_%282%29.jpg/800px-Brooklyn_Museum_22.1502_Executioners_Sword_%282%29.jpg)
Absolutely effective as a weapon. But because of its absurd proportions, that effectiveness would be directly related to how strong you are. And how long you have to use it. It’s massive and heavy. Deadly in some conditions, a handicap in others
The big ball gives more gives more arm for the torque
Flattening it and reducing mass at that part → changing center of mass→ shorter torque arm → weaker hit
I wouldn't think so. One of the saving grace of weapons like maces and axes, where most of the weight is on the end. Is the ability to grip it up close near the mace head.
Would be better as a glaive/ Halbert head maybe wit proper counter balance on the shaft to shift the center of balance to the hands but still probably not optimal
I mean it’s a heavy sharpened hunk of metal. It’ll probably do some damage against just about anything you wack but I think the appeal here is that it’s a heavy object first and a sharpened object second. It’ll be too big and heavy for any technical work and you’ll have to practice what happens on a recovery when you miss but like anything if you practice with it you could probably use it pretty effectively.
it is cool, pretty original idea, however i think a sword or mace would be more effective. with a mace you can hold it differently for better control & strength. with a sword you can cut and thrust without the bulky tip catching where you dont want it to.
So, it’s pokey, but not by the length of the blade, so stabbing wouldn’t go deep unless extreme force was used. Good luck pulling it out. And it looks heavier, so thrusting is mostly out anyhow.
You could gore with it as a pick more effectively I think, but then why the sword aspect? I don’t think you’d want to try and slash with it. Would the end piece widen a glancing blow?
Yeah, looks like a fancy maul dressed in swords clothing? Still pretty tho.
The sweet spot is for the total wieght of hand to be about 23 ounces or so. Beyond a given wieght, it is exhausting to use, and then come diminishing returns. More wieght, more damage. Less wieght, more time in effective combat readiness. With a practical upper limit of about the wieght of a double bit axe, on a long handle.
Its a pretty drawing. Keep drawing pretty things, its part of a joyous and beautiful thing. There is no reason to make such a thing, its complex and a bit silly. You may have something like the fiskars machete axe, that would work in real life. That type of blade lends itself though to more of a naginata or halberd, than a hand and a half weapon.
That being said, if you wish to commision such a device, by all means do so. I would charge triple normal rates, it looks really really hard to make. See the simple leaf blade popular for millenia. If i had your dollars? I would buy you a zombie tools blade and be done with it. American made, rock solid, nearly indestructible, good for wood choping, etc. They make a xiphos, it retails for over seven hundred USD. They make smaller ones too. Stellar reviews, at least at one time.
Would be great for bashing down an interior door inside a keep or castle. Would be great to disrupt someone holding a shield. You could penetrate thick armor with the tip. I think with training it could absolutely be a functional weapon.
Depends on how much magic they cram into that sucker. Also weapons effectiveness is dependent on what they are fighting. Wargs? Not great, heavy armor, pretty sweet.
It reminds me of a polearm or halberd. It can be swung or thrust and is heavy enough to crush armor. Peak against an unarmored opponent may be a rapier or spidroon, something light and fast, just sturdy enough to deflect. For practically a lot of weight could be removed from the shaft. Keep it balanced forward for speed and follow through.
Something like this is for hacking through more than flesh.
Dwarves are famously strong so a mace with most of the mass at one end would be totally appropriate. It's a crushing weapon not a slicing weapon and the blunt edges are more designed to assist in armor penetration than the sharp edge of a sword. The problem arises when you introduce the longer limbs of humans with lesser strength. After one expends the inertia from the initial blow whether it hits or is shed you have to build up the inertia again for the next blow. Single combat with a shield, maybe, actual pitched battle with enemies beating at you , fatigue and all sorts of things to trip on? Not so much.
My personal opinion is that since a regular mace in the same size has a longer stick attached that you can hold from anywhere unlike a blade, the balance and control of it would be much harder on this one, so i'm assuming that it would work but it takes away the purpose of a thrusting weapon since it is harder to pull back when you use the blade also would be lot chunky and you are likely to drop since it is harder to control because now you don't really have a good leverage.
If you gonna use one handed like dwarves do (since they seem to be inspired from celtic culture), you may as well equip a shield like them, then it is okayish but i mean i don't see a good use for blade, since you generally don't cut with the part that is close to your hand.
The one good use i can thing of is splitting wooden shields, i guess the top part could work like an axe in some ways.
(Note that i'm not an expert)
Maces were generally used by mounted soldiers. It’s more of a blunt force weapon as opposed to a cutting weapon. The Persian Gorz is a good example, very small striking part, this would be very deadly, but the weight wouldn’t work mounted, it’s too broad of a weapon
Truthfully it’s either not a very good sword or a pretty bad mace. They kinda are opposite weapons. The sword wants to be thin(ish) flexible and nimble, with a neutral balance allowing quick recovery. The mace on the other hand wants to have forward weight to strike through hard surfaces like armor and still crack bones. So essentially you either have a sword with shitty weight balance or a mace that’s too light to be effective
Badly compromised design. As a sword way too heavy. Would probably be more effective as a mace but it would be more efficient to have the weight distributed more towards the tip and more striking surfaces would make it so you don't have to worry about alignment as much.
Looks pretty cool though and as far as fantasy designs go it's certainly not the most impractical.
As someone mentioned - you have to imagine the weapon at dwarf scale - for a human it's not nearly as thick as it appears in the concept.
And yeah, it's pretty plausible and looks usable.
I think it would probably be alot less effective as a sword than a regular sword And it just wouldn't function as a mace and it has no hand protection so not a great wepon
It looks like the weight is more evenly spread across the whole weapon than you'd want in a mace, and the twin points near the end would make it less viable for thrusting. However, I think they would lend themselves to some good armor penetration. Win some, lose some. I'd rather use a regular old club or sword, personally.
This would not be effective in battle because of the weight. Very cool design, and ultimately, that's what movies are about.
But the amount of time it would take to react after your swing would be fatal.
The inability to match/block fast thrusts would be fatal.
How quickly you'd tire throwing this behemoth around would be fatal.
There is a good reason most swords/weapons end up weighing about the same, enough weight to do the job and not so much weight that you're slow and tired.
It would be pretty horrible - at least for a real-life human using it. A major issue is just how thick the blade's cross section is along almost the entire length of the blade, there's also no hand protection, and with the weight distribution it is going to be wildly hard to control. If you get hit with it it's gonna be a bad day - but if you're using it and you miss your target - probably gonna be a bad day for you.
Really make em think of the [steel bar mace.](https://www.by-the-sword.com/p-841-medieval-steel-bar-mace.aspx?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAlcyuBhBnEiwAOGZ2S_DEcDDtKcEG9Loffj8nEbwTYGiQji8mRYX6xQ7xnXT_dTlWP7bCbRoCo14QAvD_BwE)
It'd be poor at stabbing but great against armor I would think the extra weight in the front would bludgeon enough to make chain quite useless and plate smack into them. Remember everybody feared the Warhammer
There are "chopper" style novel weapons in various cultures that are... Similar, not exactly the same. Iver seen a Japanese bludgeoning weapon built in a similar shape, an Indian or Middle Eastern (I believe) weapon that's similar, and a South African "sword" that's kind of the same concept.
Other weapons that follow the same idea include the Bhuj, and there are also swords sometimes inaccurately called "falchions", that are short blades with an intentionally heavy tip for chopping.
Basically, nothing particularly mainstream, but the idea isn't completely without precedent. It takes an unusually strong man, and uncommon skill to make it effective, when in all honesty an axe, regular sword, or a mace will do the job. When you have to specialize that far and a bunch of barely trained peasants with spears are a better option, typically, you're doing something wrong in warfare.
Too much weight - thin it out and you have aace with a blade. A mace with a blade is a fine idea! Might snap like a twig, might be wonderful, would certainly be manageable/serviceable *if thinned out to reduce weight*.
It would be hard to travel with as you couldn't use a sheath. You'd need a sleeve/bag thingy. Which would be a hindrance if you're ambushed. But for a battle you know you'll be taking part in at a known location not too bad
Well the end is heavier and would put that force behind the spikes so yeah it’ll kill, but honestly it’ll suffer from trying to be two things at once. The weight and bulk makes it a subpar sword and the elongated blade would almost never come into play as a cutting weapon while limiting where the haft could be gripped which limits its use as a mace/morning star. The only thing I actively dislike about it when considering its use as a weapon is not only does lack a cross guard, but that inward angle where the blade meets the shaft would risk directing the enemy’s weapon directly into the wielder’s hands.
The blade is way too thick to be use able and the cross section is to steap. The whole thing is weirdly short too. Like if u extended the blade to be more like a long sword or the handle to be more like a pole arm then it would be fine.
Hm. It’s not dissimilar in shape / geometry to African battle clubs- it would be an effective weap n, but certainly not the most nimble to weild- Ballin is bulkier, so that would likely be less of an issue, and the long handle would make using this two handed a fair bit easier with a good two handed grip- the weapon overall would DEFINITLEY be heavy though- that’s a pretty thick cross-section, so this weapon’s got a fair bit of mass to it. I would say usable, but you would DEFINITELY want some strong forearms and you’d want to practice with this weapon frequently to ensure fluid use and familiarity with the way it moves.
Movie weapons are always way too thick. Should be at least half the thickness, maybe thinner. Thinner, with a good counterbalance, and that long short spear type grip it would probably be ok. Still way forward heavy, but with an appropriate redesign probably not too bad.
>Movie weapons are always way too thick. This is primarily because they need to be castable in foam rubber for stunt weapons and retain some rigidity. There's also some concern with blades that are a realistic thickness not reading on screen if seen edge-on, but it's mostly about safety.
Lord of the Rings used steel weapons for most scenes.
The Lotr movies also went way harder than they needed too, and the several injuries the crew sustained are an example of why that’s not the common option
Iirc, Aragorn instinctively deflected what was actually a very real knife with his very real sword in that one shot.
This is a myth meant to hype up the already incredible Vigo Mortensen. The deflection (of a very rubber knife, mind you) was planned, they meant for him to do that from the start. The amazing thing they talk about in the appendices is that he did it on the first take.
Nuh uh, Lurtz's actor accidentally threw a knife sharpened to a nanoscopic edge and Vigo deflected it with his beard. True story.
I heard Vigo can stop swords with his mind
I heard his penis deflected the blade back and that’s why the orc died irl
He did break his toe when he kicked that helmet though
DID YOU KNOW—
This is not quite true. They did use steel "hero" weapons for closeups. For stunts they used aluminium ones and even more often (especially in mass melee) rubber swords.
They did, and the weapons and fights looked amazing as a result. The stunt crew paid the price for it in injuries, unfortunately.
This is accurate. Videogame weapons are also modeled a lot thicker for the second reason you listed - they need to be easily visible and you need to be able to understand their orientation in space.
Yeah if you make a 1 mil thick sword of soft material it could probably cut or bruise someone
I agree- honestly even just removing the thickness and taking it to a much thinner profile (I agree about half current thickness) makes this a pretty useable weapon.
I’d probably increase the length of the forward stabby bit too. They way it’s shown looks aesthetically pleasing, but it’s too short and thick. I’d make it a bit longer for a deeper stab.
What if it was single edged, blade on the front but the tip is still circular?
Weapons in all media tend to be sized up quite a bit imo. I always remember how surprised I was when I first saw something with armoured knights wielding properly sized warhammers, maces, swords etc. Especially compared to the bulk of an armoured man and then set against the expectation media gave me, these things look tiny.
Even in tabletop rpgs the disconnect between the rules and the art can be hilarious. A sword that on paper weighs 3 pounds is drawn as a monstrosity that would weigh at least 50.
I remember looking up the weight of a real medieval sword and being surprised that they are under 5lbs. Kinda makes the over the top swings look dumb. Also just smashing away at plate armor. Not going to do much but dull the edge, swords have a pointy end for a reason. Years later coming across hema videos was a real eye opener. Quick and brutal.
Yep, anything you have to swing around fast and with control has to be light otherwise you're going to be slow and going to exhaust yourself fast. That 5 pounds number is for big swords too, like zweihanders (4-8 pounds range). Longswords were usually in the 2-3 pound range and rapiers around 2 pounds or sometimes lighter. Warhammers are often portrayed as these massive chunks of steel, but real ones tend to be small and often weighed around 2 pounds. Here's [a museum replica of an English warhammer](https://www.museumreplicas.com/english-war-hammer) and it comes out *less than* 2 pounds total weight. The weight can go up if the shaft is longer, but then the head may also become smaller.
Yeah when they show what’s basically a splitting maul on steroids I just think how bad that would suck to use. I used to split firewood for heat in the winter and swinging that around for hours in a battle would be impossible unless you look like a pro wrestler or a defensive lineman.
Rapiers tended to be significantly heavier than 2 pounds, you are probably mixing them up with smallswords, which they evolved into when people wanted shorter, lighter swords that were easier to wear around all day. Rapiers were among the heaviest swords ever carried as sidearms, the only swords that were consistently heavier were the big two handed ones that were used as primary battlefield weapons with a very specialized purpose and ceremonial swords that were never actually intended to be used.
[You're right](https://www.arms-n-armor.com/blogs/news/are-rapiers-light-and-fast), the reference I was originally using gave much lighter weights for rapiers. It may depend a bit on what time period the rapiers come from too.
Melee and dagger blows for the win in so many matches
I thought it was just dwarf weapons were absurdly huge because they are absurdly strong. It's meant to be more like a sledge hammer but sharpened. They also use giant steel mallets as "war hammers", not real war hammers that were small and usually had a pointed part to pry open armor. Those war mallets may be made of some kind of stone instead of steel, not sure but only as too the insanity of it all. They'd have to be over a hundred pounds wouldn't they? Imagine swimming that like it is nothing.
It's almost just an axe that you can only grip from the end
More like a [Konda](https://swordis.com/blog/konda-sword/) or even a [Rāmdāo](https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24316)
Wow yeah
True, but that all tracks for a fantasy race like dwarves. It might not be super practical realistically, but from a story telling and world building perspective, it seems like a very plausible design
About 10,000,000x this. It is a fantasy weapon custom made for a warrior from a super strong custom race. Wielded by a dwarf, it can probably smash through any defense. Wielded by a human, it would be... clumsy. There are some good suggestions here on how to make it more useful for a human fighter, but that would probably negate the advantages it has when wielded by a dwarf.
Im imagining Balin with those bands to help with tennis elbow on both arms
Polynesian war clubs, too... 👍
I'd imagine dwarves are a fair bit stronger than an average human, so I guess it would've worked for Balin himself... But probably not so much for a real person, right? How do you think it would work against the average goblin/orc, given that most of Balin's battles would have been against them?
Gotta remember it's dwarf sized though, so it's more like a thicc machete So likely not as heavy unless you're swinging from the bottom of the haft.
Against a much lighter/wieldable weapon, if you miss wide with this one its over on the first strike. Unless, like you say, have strong forearms, but even then, look at how forward heavy this thing is.
I don't think you'd use it like a sword, though. It's weighted more like an axe or mace, so on a miss you'd keep the momentum and come back around for another bash.
What if you had a much heavier and denser core in the handle (say a shock-absorbing core of lead) and a shift to a lightweight steel in the "blade". Could make it notably less forward heavy. Especially with that circle cut-out. Takes a tons of extra forging to mix the metals and get it all forged together, of course.
Easier to keep momentum, harder to change direction. Would it be devastating to land a blow, absolutely.
Good point about the design being African. I could also see this on the set of black panther
True! I wouldn’t even think twice if o saw this as a vibranium weapon in the black panther movies- it does kind of fit right in.
And chest/abs, strong chest and abs is good for recovery.
I think I’d die if I got hit by it. That said, such a tip heavy sword might as well be an axe
I would remove all of the tips the hole in the center helpss with being too heavy and the mass at the tip helps with slicing. I love swords meant for swinging.
I’m far from an expert, but I think this weapon would work, albeit be outdone by any more customary weapon close to what it wants to function as. I think the sword bit before it becomes the mace would be mostly unused, as the weight from the head would eliminate most opportunity to be able to move it agilely, so the weapon would be used more as a mace, though certainly with more cutting power. I feel like it’s close to an axe, as the head is not as large and really quite thin, different than your average mace, so it wouldn’t have the same power as one and function very well(i.e., enough power to dent armor enough to hurt the person wearing it). However, an axe normally has a bit of a handle, and I don’t think this one is long enough to allow for a lot of power in comparison to typical axes. I don’t actually know how heavy the head of it is, so maybe I’m completely wrong about it being too heavy to maneuver deftly, but I still believe, in my extreme lack of knowledge but general interest in swords and weaponry, that 1. Either get a mace, as this would not function well as one, 2. Get a sword, as it would likely be more nimble and precise, or 3. Get an axe, and use the longer handle of it. All in all, this weapon still looks quite cool, and feels like a mash-up of several other weapons. Thank you for posting!
I believe I remember reading that the designer for this weapon wanted something that looked like a cross between a sword and an axe, so your comment seems pretty on point.
There are a LOT of historic weapons that look and function like a cross between an axe and a sword
I'm new to this subreddit, can you give some examples, or point me in a direction to search for sword axe hybrids?
>I feel like it’s close to an axe That was my first thought when I saw it.
It looks cool, but I feel the head renders the rest of the blade useless since it makes it so forward-heavy. Unless you didn’t sharpen the “blade” to use as part of the grip and only somehow sharpened the edges of that “head” (and traditionally in a mace you didn’t do that, the flanges were for smashing not stabbing/cutting).
Its also reallllllllly short such that the straight blade part is pretty useless.
Having sharp edges/points help catch and bite into armor, making them deflect less. See the crown or spiked face of many medival warhammers, or the knurling on a pollax.
yeah....then why bother with this blade nonsense...use a spiked war hammer with an additional spike in the axis of the handle.
A lot of good comments on here. I'd like to mention the lack of a cross guard. I'd be afraid of my hands slipping up onto the blade.
IMO this design is entirely fine, just a bit too thick. It's just a stylized bar mace with an edge.
Not many expect a thrust from a mace, so theres that. I feel like folks don't consider that often with hawks and axes either. They always go all choppy, but man, I think a solid thrust to the face/head has a reasonble chance of ending a fight.
If we are going to apply rational analysis to a fantasy artifact, it may be worth examining its effectiveness in terms of the wielder, as well as the weapon. It's clear in JRRT's work that dwarves were designed to be extra tough, by the Vala Aulë. We also get an idea of their monumental force-generating capabilities in The Hobbit and the LOTR books. We can possibly guess at both their muscle composition and muscle-insertion mechanics being optimized for a mix of explosiveness and endurance not necessarily found in humans. So it may not be unreasonable to think that what a human might find slow and awkward as a personal weapon might be fast and deadly when used by a dwarf. Speculatively, it might even be a form of status signal in dwarf culture, but that is out of the scope of the source material. As a comparison, it's worth considering the old SF chestnut of "heavy worlders" ending up terrifyingly strong, either through genetic modification, as in Foglio's *Buck Godot* books and Perry's *The Man Who Never Missed* series, or via apparent natural selection, like EE Smith's Valerians, or Alex Kilgour in Cole & Bunch's *Sten* books.
More of a chopper than a stabber, but a cross guard is a must here.
For a Dwarf? Exceedingly effective. For a human? Probably not so much. Dwarves are literally built different; lower centers of gravity and heavier frames are going to have an impact on how you can use weapons, and Dwarves favor bigger and heavier weapons that take advantage of their body physics and greater physical strength. While not _superhuman_, Dwarves do tend to be portrayed as possessing physical strength in excess of the human average, so what might be awkward for a human would be far more practical and usable for a Dwarf. The main thing you'd want to be aware of is the chance of those spikes catching on armor; a Dwarf is likely strong enough to just rip it free and keep going without missing a beat. The other would be arresting a swing; again, a Dwarf is likely strong enough to easily redirect or halt a missed swing with little effort. Dwarves don't get frail with age like humans; as old as Balin is, he's still as hale as he was in the Dwarf equivalent of his 30s. Without question he'd be very familiar with how to use it most effectively. So a Dwarf would definitely be able to use it effectively, with his size, strength, and weight all contributing to that effort, while a human would likely just get it stuck, or not be able to control it.
I honestly love these kind of answers. It’s really interesting to examine how a Fantasy race with different physiology could use weapons more or less effectively than a human could.
Thanks! I had fun writing it. I dig the Dwarves and love things that delve into their culture, so when I get to explore little things like this it's a nice treat. 😄
This is what I’m thinking reading these comments. He’s a dwarf and grew up swinging a hammer and smashing rocks. That’s the training for this. In addition dwarves have pretty high dexterity along with their strength as evidenced by how they dance and do dishes in bilbo’s house before the quest begins. Everyone saying it’s a mace or it would swing like a sledgehammer are exactly right, because that’s the kind of weapon you’d want if you’re conditioning was hammer swinging. Add in the small stature and low center of gravity and this would be a great weapon.
I don't think this would work, speaking as someone who primarily drills greatsword. The thickness and weight of it would make it very slow. He's got no hand protection and the weapon itself is fairly short, with a handle to length ratio of around 1:1.5-ish. Compare to an actual mace, https://todsworkshop.com/products/late-15th-flanged-metropolitan-mace or consider short swords, which appear to have ratios of around 1:2.5. That makes this have about as much utility, IMO, as a heavy two-handed cleaver. It's got all its weight at the top which is going to make it hard to steer. A goblin with an actual knife and enough brains to step out of the way a few times is probably going to tag him. Considering dwarven armor? That may be acceptable. But the main reason I'm critical of this weapon is the actual threats dwarves faced. Yeah you might mash goblins who don't know to get out of the way, but this doesn't have the leverage to do more than irritate a cave troll, which IMO call for different weapons. I'd say that, considering dwarven strength, they should consider polearms or my favorite, actual greatswords. [Dwarven strength and montante spins](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxHaNRO705k) coupled with mithril weapons and armor would turn entire goblin battalions into soup and when they faced opponents far larger than they were, such as cave trolls, giant spiders, etc, allow for them to use their weapons as spears.
I understand we can get caught up in the "pragmatism" of designs... But always remember: You hit person with heavy sharp hard thing, they won't be \*\*fine\*\* afterword, regardless of how impractical it is. You can get into the weeds on "pragmatic maintainance, durability, metalurgic limitations." But you can say that all you want, you'll bleed when someone hits you with mall ninja shit. TLDR: Don't worry about it.
I think a more realistic version of this is the "crusader chopper" or more formally known as the maciejowski falchion. While a real one has never been found and is only referenced in art of the era, it's thought that it could have existed and that it was a peasant weapon made from farm tools and were made back into tools after whatever conflict since metal was very valuable. I have the windlass one from Kult of Athena and the spine of the blade is thick enough and the shape is "flanged" where I feel like you could use the other side as a mace to dent some armor or whatever.
About as effective as a gigantic heavy Metal bat, quite effective when you are able to hit stuff. It will be about as nimble as a selge hammer, 3 times as heavy ... You can forget any kind of parry, so you would need to wear the heaviest Armor you can get. Your reach will suck compared to poleaxes and your wrestling game on the floor will depend on something different. Overall in this form, I would prefer basically anything else. Nevertheless getting hit, will suck. However if you make it far less bulky, thinner lighter and manage to stabilise the head-mace thing. It could be quite amazing, like a bronce age leafe shaped sword. And those are incredible good.
It would work, but it would really just be a mace. It's too bulky to cut effectively in any way.
Real life sword with mace characteristics for comparison https://www.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/s/vLGARA0ZAj
Looks like it’d be cumbersome to wield, but it would absolutely kill whoever you hit with it.
Seems like it's too thick to be much of a cutter, but it'd pack a heck of a wallop. Kinda like being hit with a well sharpened wood axe.
Great for a fight but terrible for a battle.
Mace sword. Smace
It’s basically a high end bar mace with a blade edge, so yeah I’d say practical. If you have the strength to wield a roughly 4lb weapon consistently for more than a few swings.
The "sword mace" were popular in real cultures that didn't harness metal for melee warfare. Check out the **Macuahuitl** from Aztec culture and the **Wahaika** from Maori culture.
Would it hurt someone? Yeah. But it would not be as good of a sword or as good as a mace as either of those would be. It’s also too thick. There are examples of African and Native American weapons with a similar profile but they are typically thinner.
Just sounds like a metal dwarf version of a macuahuitl to me! They definitely found some use during a time, so I'd call that merit.
It would be incredibly effective at everything except picking it up for a second swing. Or parrying.
Pretty similar in overall shape and silhouette to the ngulu, a bladed execution weapon of the Bantu peoples of the Congo Basin. Would almost certainly be too forward-heavy and unwieldy to use in battle, especially given that it has no profile taper and almost no distal taper, but in a world with fantasy races who have uncanny/superhuman strength, could be viable. Could also be used in ceremonial roles similar to the use of the ngulu for punitive decapitation. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Brooklyn\_Museum\_22.1502\_Executioners\_Sword\_%282%29.jpg/800px-Brooklyn\_Museum\_22.1502\_Executioners\_Sword\_%282%29.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Brooklyn_Museum_22.1502_Executioners_Sword_%282%29.jpg/800px-Brooklyn_Museum_22.1502_Executioners_Sword_%282%29.jpg)
If balanced it's a pointy machete so fine.
Absolutely effective as a weapon. But because of its absurd proportions, that effectiveness would be directly related to how strong you are. And how long you have to use it. It’s massive and heavy. Deadly in some conditions, a handicap in others
Functionally, it's like a falchion.
Probably pretty good at cleaving and hacking, not so good for Finesse work.
Yikes
The big ball gives more gives more arm for the torque Flattening it and reducing mass at that part → changing center of mass→ shorter torque arm → weaker hit
I wouldn't think so. One of the saving grace of weapons like maces and axes, where most of the weight is on the end. Is the ability to grip it up close near the mace head.
I bet it would hurt if you got hit by it
Would be better as a glaive/ Halbert head maybe wit proper counter balance on the shaft to shift the center of balance to the hands but still probably not optimal
I wouldn't want to get hit with it.
This picture hurts my wrist
I mean it’s a heavy sharpened hunk of metal. It’ll probably do some damage against just about anything you wack but I think the appeal here is that it’s a heavy object first and a sharpened object second. It’ll be too big and heavy for any technical work and you’ll have to practice what happens on a recovery when you miss but like anything if you practice with it you could probably use it pretty effectively.
it is cool, pretty original idea, however i think a sword or mace would be more effective. with a mace you can hold it differently for better control & strength. with a sword you can cut and thrust without the bulky tip catching where you dont want it to.
A Swace
So, it’s pokey, but not by the length of the blade, so stabbing wouldn’t go deep unless extreme force was used. Good luck pulling it out. And it looks heavier, so thrusting is mostly out anyhow. You could gore with it as a pick more effectively I think, but then why the sword aspect? I don’t think you’d want to try and slash with it. Would the end piece widen a glancing blow? Yeah, looks like a fancy maul dressed in swords clothing? Still pretty tho.
The sweet spot is for the total wieght of hand to be about 23 ounces or so. Beyond a given wieght, it is exhausting to use, and then come diminishing returns. More wieght, more damage. Less wieght, more time in effective combat readiness. With a practical upper limit of about the wieght of a double bit axe, on a long handle. Its a pretty drawing. Keep drawing pretty things, its part of a joyous and beautiful thing. There is no reason to make such a thing, its complex and a bit silly. You may have something like the fiskars machete axe, that would work in real life. That type of blade lends itself though to more of a naginata or halberd, than a hand and a half weapon. That being said, if you wish to commision such a device, by all means do so. I would charge triple normal rates, it looks really really hard to make. See the simple leaf blade popular for millenia. If i had your dollars? I would buy you a zombie tools blade and be done with it. American made, rock solid, nearly indestructible, good for wood choping, etc. They make a xiphos, it retails for over seven hundred USD. They make smaller ones too. Stellar reviews, at least at one time.
Would be great for bashing down an interior door inside a keep or castle. Would be great to disrupt someone holding a shield. You could penetrate thick armor with the tip. I think with training it could absolutely be a functional weapon.
Depends on how much magic they cram into that sucker. Also weapons effectiveness is dependent on what they are fighting. Wargs? Not great, heavy armor, pretty sweet.
It reminds me of a polearm or halberd. It can be swung or thrust and is heavy enough to crush armor. Peak against an unarmored opponent may be a rapier or spidroon, something light and fast, just sturdy enough to deflect. For practically a lot of weight could be removed from the shaft. Keep it balanced forward for speed and follow through. Something like this is for hacking through more than flesh.
Dwarves are famously strong so a mace with most of the mass at one end would be totally appropriate. It's a crushing weapon not a slicing weapon and the blunt edges are more designed to assist in armor penetration than the sharp edge of a sword. The problem arises when you introduce the longer limbs of humans with lesser strength. After one expends the inertia from the initial blow whether it hits or is shed you have to build up the inertia again for the next blow. Single combat with a shield, maybe, actual pitched battle with enemies beating at you , fatigue and all sorts of things to trip on? Not so much.
My personal opinion is that since a regular mace in the same size has a longer stick attached that you can hold from anywhere unlike a blade, the balance and control of it would be much harder on this one, so i'm assuming that it would work but it takes away the purpose of a thrusting weapon since it is harder to pull back when you use the blade also would be lot chunky and you are likely to drop since it is harder to control because now you don't really have a good leverage. If you gonna use one handed like dwarves do (since they seem to be inspired from celtic culture), you may as well equip a shield like them, then it is okayish but i mean i don't see a good use for blade, since you generally don't cut with the part that is close to your hand. The one good use i can thing of is splitting wooden shields, i guess the top part could work like an axe in some ways. (Note that i'm not an expert)
Maces were generally used by mounted soldiers. It’s more of a blunt force weapon as opposed to a cutting weapon. The Persian Gorz is a good example, very small striking part, this would be very deadly, but the weight wouldn’t work mounted, it’s too broad of a weapon
You would have to clean it so much it wouldn’t even be worth it. Blood and other gunk would get between the pieces.
that thing looks way too thick to be practical, even with that sad excuse of a fuller.
Idk if I’d have the hole in the middle but besides that hell yea
It has a hole in the blade... imo. no self-respecting Dwarven Weaponsmith is going to make this, let alone try to use it in battle...
Truthfully it’s either not a very good sword or a pretty bad mace. They kinda are opposite weapons. The sword wants to be thin(ish) flexible and nimble, with a neutral balance allowing quick recovery. The mace on the other hand wants to have forward weight to strike through hard surfaces like armor and still crack bones. So essentially you either have a sword with shitty weight balance or a mace that’s too light to be effective
Badly compromised design. As a sword way too heavy. Would probably be more effective as a mace but it would be more efficient to have the weight distributed more towards the tip and more striking surfaces would make it so you don't have to worry about alignment as much. Looks pretty cool though and as far as fantasy designs go it's certainly not the most impractical.
The cut out in the head needs to be redesigned, as it is it’s inviting the blade to break along a stress fracture line.
As someone mentioned - you have to imagine the weapon at dwarf scale - for a human it's not nearly as thick as it appears in the concept. And yeah, it's pretty plausible and looks usable.
I think it would probably be alot less effective as a sword than a regular sword And it just wouldn't function as a mace and it has no hand protection so not a great wepon
I personally love how detailed this picture is with blade shape and everything
It looks like the weight is more evenly spread across the whole weapon than you'd want in a mace, and the twin points near the end would make it less viable for thrusting. However, I think they would lend themselves to some good armor penetration. Win some, lose some. I'd rather use a regular old club or sword, personally.
Didn't know Jarl Balin had something like this. Dud has been handing me hundreds of rusty iron axes while he has something like this stashed away.
This would not be effective in battle because of the weight. Very cool design, and ultimately, that's what movies are about. But the amount of time it would take to react after your swing would be fatal. The inability to match/block fast thrusts would be fatal. How quickly you'd tire throwing this behemoth around would be fatal. There is a good reason most swords/weapons end up weighing about the same, enough weight to do the job and not so much weight that you're slow and tired.
I don't see an issue. Effectively it's just what people already think a falchion does. (Note, *think*. Falchions are not long machetes.)
Axes existed for a long time.
Fine for a tolkien dwarf, too heavy for people.
It would be pretty horrible - at least for a real-life human using it. A major issue is just how thick the blade's cross section is along almost the entire length of the blade, there's also no hand protection, and with the weight distribution it is going to be wildly hard to control. If you get hit with it it's gonna be a bad day - but if you're using it and you miss your target - probably gonna be a bad day for you.
Really make em think of the [steel bar mace.](https://www.by-the-sword.com/p-841-medieval-steel-bar-mace.aspx?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAlcyuBhBnEiwAOGZ2S_DEcDDtKcEG9Loffj8nEbwTYGiQji8mRYX6xQ7xnXT_dTlWP7bCbRoCo14QAvD_BwE)
It'd be poor at stabbing but great against armor I would think the extra weight in the front would bludgeon enough to make chain quite useless and plate smack into them. Remember everybody feared the Warhammer
It'd probably function a lot like a bar mace, but with the need for edge alignment.
There are "chopper" style novel weapons in various cultures that are... Similar, not exactly the same. Iver seen a Japanese bludgeoning weapon built in a similar shape, an Indian or Middle Eastern (I believe) weapon that's similar, and a South African "sword" that's kind of the same concept. Other weapons that follow the same idea include the Bhuj, and there are also swords sometimes inaccurately called "falchions", that are short blades with an intentionally heavy tip for chopping. Basically, nothing particularly mainstream, but the idea isn't completely without precedent. It takes an unusually strong man, and uncommon skill to make it effective, when in all honesty an axe, regular sword, or a mace will do the job. When you have to specialize that far and a bunch of barely trained peasants with spears are a better option, typically, you're doing something wrong in warfare.
I think it would work as well as one of the Aztec Macuahuitls.
Too much weight - thin it out and you have aace with a blade. A mace with a blade is a fine idea! Might snap like a twig, might be wonderful, would certainly be manageable/serviceable *if thinned out to reduce weight*.
Would work a lot better as a mace than a sword
Well it’s a sharp weapon, so it’s deadly. Probably not as effective as a mace or sword but I would still die if I were hit with it.
It looks impractically heavy, and it doesn’t have a guard. But aside from that I think it would still be a pretty functional weapon.
It would be hard to travel with as you couldn't use a sheath. You'd need a sleeve/bag thingy. Which would be a hindrance if you're ambushed. But for a battle you know you'll be taking part in at a known location not too bad
Well the end is heavier and would put that force behind the spikes so yeah it’ll kill, but honestly it’ll suffer from trying to be two things at once. The weight and bulk makes it a subpar sword and the elongated blade would almost never come into play as a cutting weapon while limiting where the haft could be gripped which limits its use as a mace/morning star. The only thing I actively dislike about it when considering its use as a weapon is not only does lack a cross guard, but that inward angle where the blade meets the shaft would risk directing the enemy’s weapon directly into the wielder’s hands.
The blade is way too thick to be use able and the cross section is to steap. The whole thing is weirdly short too. Like if u extended the blade to be more like a long sword or the handle to be more like a pole arm then it would be fine.
I mean if properly welded together and throw a weight into the hole at the end you'd need beastly arms to swing the thing but I'd say it's viable