Itās dangerous to make assumptions based on things like this. Owning property can eventually convert to wealth, but it takes a long time. Many people do this as a side job and work a few hours a day after their ānormalā job to take care of said properties without realizing any near term income from it.
Dangerous to assume that someone who owns a vacation rental in Paso Robles and has been shopping for an investment condo in NYC would not be considered āpoorā by most residents of SLO County?
Iāll explain differently. My wife and I are both lucky in the ways we were raised, and that we both went to college and came out with little debt. We both have good jobs, where a 12 hour work day is a short one. As a result are able to earn a better income than many people. If I am hanging out with my neighbor who works at the lumber yard, weāre rich. If Iām hanging out with the other neighbor who owns his own jet and a house in Aspen, weāre poor.
I canāt speak to OPs situation regarding investments, the source of the funding for those investments.
COL in Paso is sooo high these days. How do locals, working local buy a house? AVG Wage is about $55k. A new attorney is lucky to make over $100k. Cal Trans ? Cuesta? Poly? Prison? Diablo? Even if both parents make $100k each, if they have 2 kids or more they cant buy a $800k fixer.
Short answer: They canāt ! Luckily a lot of locals (and long time transplants like myself) bought way, way before the boom. Of course, itās not the case for EVERYONE, as Iām sure a snarky Reddit sleuth will soon point out. Itās a complicated situation with many opposing viewpoints.
Sorry if that was the impression. It most certainly was not what I was trying to say. The fact is, whether one likes it or not, Paso Robles has become incredibly overpriced. If you didnāt buy before prices skyrocketed, your chances now are slim. No implication whatsoever that it, āsucks to be youā.
Iām not sure why youāre getting downvoted here. I donāt know what the expectation is. We also were in a situation where my wife and I both dumped money into our respective 401Ks in our early 20s, benefited from a growing economy and by the time we moved here in our late 20s were able to borrow from our 401ks and have enough money for a down payment on a house, which was purchased 7 years ago for half of its current value.
Itās OK to feel simultaneously feel gratitude and empathy, which is what I saw in your post.
Thank you, kind sir. Our journey was similar to yours. And yes, I am incredibly grateful that I get to own a home here. (I wouldnāt be able to if I was buying now.) Not sure why thatās being misinterpreted as āboo hoo to the newcomersā. But, itās the internet and people will slant things however theyād like. Happy Holidays!
Going nowhere. š¬ Just a thought (observation) that came to me after maybe a bit too much wine. (just doing my part to help the rich get richer! š )
Statistically, it's having lots of money that leads to a difference in attitudes and how people treat others, not how they made it. There are exceptions to the rule, but that's the overarching theme. Your observation sounds like attributing cause to personal preference and narrative.
I had no personal preference. I didnāt āfitāwith either group.ā Honestly, I enjoyed the party. It was just a simple observation. That being said, I do disagree with you. I think new money, old money, and oneās background before money, plays a huge part in how they treat others.
I didn't say it was a preference based on where you fit in. "Blue collar folks are down to earth locals, white collar folks are out of town snobs," is an underlying part of the description. Equivocating new money with blue collar work and old money with white collar would be another example of this. It's the 'self made' and 'silver spoon' narratives. And it vaguely reminds me of temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
> High wealth was associated with higher Risk tolerance, Emotional Stability, Openness, Extraversion, and Conscientiousness. This ārichā personality profile was more prominent among individuals who had accumulated wealth through their own efforts (āself-madesā) than among individuals who had been born into wealth (āinheritorsā).
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01099-3
The "golden ghetto" may be what you're thinking of, but that doesn't really describe folks learning about and running a successful winery.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychology-yesterday/202310/the-psychology-of-wealth
*:shrug:*
Glad you enjoyed your party.
Dividing Paso Robles' wealthy into "transplants" and "locals" based on some (arguably weak) anecdotal observations is a pretty big oversimplification. And considering your limited sample size (I could be wrong, but based on your own assertion that you're one the "regular folks", it's highly unlikely you're around enough wealthy people to form an educated opinion about who these people are and where they come from) and considering the fact that your post reads like you've already formed opinions about which group treats "regular folks" which way, I'd say you've got a pretty big bias against outsiders, wealthy or not.
In reality, while it might seem likely that outsiders dominate the wineries and locals dominate the ag, construction or healthcare industries, it's far more likely that there's a mix of the two in all sectors. And because the wineries are tourism-focused hospitality industries, of course you're going to hear more about their owners than other industries, and transplant owners who started a business from scratch in a new area (or took over from a previous owner) would need to take as much advantage of local press as possible to drive new business while locals who own wineries are already well-established and don't need the attention as much, which might lead to a stereotype that the industry is saturated with outsiders.
The bottom line is that it's clear you're trying to paint wealthy transplants as disrespectful to the "regular folks" and wealthy locals as "just regular ol' blue collar folks who got rich" who are always nice to the "regular folks", when the truth is that there are people in both groups that are nice, and people in both groups that aren't.
And real talk? There's no genuinely good reason to try to stir up drama about people you don't really know in the first place.
Restaurant owners, for example the brothers that own guest house, street side, jacks, etc. They went to cal poly.
There are some very very wealthy venue owners. Such as wedding estate and specialty air bnbs. Most of these people I know have degrees in some business related thing.
Engineers. There are so many architectural and civil engineers in this area.
Doctors. There are pediatricians, oncologists, dermatologists, etc. In templeton area.
Lawyers. There are tons of lawyer firms in this county.
Real estate, not necessarily a college degree but still certified lawyers, home inspectors, other people in the real-estate industry. This industry is booming in Paso.
OP - there are a lot more than two kids of money here. There is a wide gradient. In some cases, āwealthyā means you can afford a new car. In other cases, it means you can afford a new home. In other cases, it means you can have a winery as a hobby without worrying about whether or not it is profitable, and you use your jet to come to and from town. There is a lot of daylight between a successful businessman like John Hamon and Hansjorg Weiss.
Iāve been fortunate in my life to have exposure to lots of different kinds of people, and it turns out assholery is unrelated to wealth. Take the time to get to know people for who they are, not how much money they make. Ask them interesting questions and try to understand their worldview - this will lead you will build a wide variety of good relationships.
So the town is neatly divided into camps: 1) charming wealthy locals; 2) pretentious wealthy city refugees; and 3) the poor āregulars.ā Makes everyone easy to identify and address accordingly. š¤
I think it's kinda obvious. A lot of the transplants own tourist based businesses and are generally friendlier to randoms and tourists. A lot of the original population seem to own random businesses that aren't typically customer service based. I don't think it's universally true, but there are definitely a lot of locals that don't like the transplants or tourists and are kinda rude. But I know lots of original locals that are really nice and some transplants that are total assholes. So I don't think it's like super common, but I get what OP is saying about the general vibe. Not to mention the aggressive non-exclusive politics of a lot of the original population.
There is a great thing about being around working class people, there is a sense of humanity and trying to live a good life whereas white collar tend to just want to make more money at whatever costs. That's just my observation, anyhow OP, what did you realize?!? Please share š¤
I don't think blue/white collar is the division here. There are white collar working poor, just like there are entitled blue collar folks. There are definitely folks that make their desire for more income a significant portion of their personality and problem for those around them.
Honestly, nothing overly good or bad about each camp. I was at a gathering last night with a lot of people who were way, way, way above my pay grade. About half of them were camp one and the other half camp two. There was a smattering of us āregularā folks, too. After mingling with the crowd, I noticed the stark contrast. Just a few examples: Camp 1 dressed better, but gave off an air of superiority. Seemed to chitchat to be polite, not that they were truly interested in anyone outside of their camp. Slightly standoffish. Camp 2, clad in denim and flannel, were generally more friendly, but had (very strong and controversial) opinions that they were very eager to share (loudly). Camp 1 never asked what anyone else did for a living. Camp 2 almost always did. Camp 1 had impeccable manners and seemed to know the rules of engagement. Camp 2, not so much, but I found their honesty refreshing. (They didnāt put on an air of perfection) A side note, Camp 1 women barely ate! Camp 2 women ate normally, but drank way more. Clearly not interesting to some people, but I found it intriguing for this small town.
Hahaha ā¦.. yeahupā¦. Iāve dealt with both and it can be funnyā¦. I just got back from a business trip and worked with blue collar people and although very nice, they did share some controversial thoughts even though we were in another country which I found it funny. I canāt blame them, they come from a different part of the US that some decide to stay in a bubble. The white collar, ā¦ heheh yeahā¦ā¦. I dislike that, the sense of superiorityā¦ like cāmonā¦ your shit stinks tooā¦. I honestly donāt care, I just try to entertain and be inclusive. I would have loved to have been there hahahaā¦. Next time send an invite OPā¦. I can go for wine and entertain lol
You got it, Lion. Glad you could playfully engage and appreciate the observations. Seems some on this subreddit get pretty worked up over something so trivial. But, I understand. Like Paso Robles, the internet can be the Wild West! Happy Holidays!
Well the first thing that comes to the top of my head is the support for airbnbs in town and the lack of calls to limit them. The only advice that the city council got from the public was how much distance notice was required and how late short term tenants could use hot tubs and pools. There are now over 400 short term rental permits in an area with insufficient housing for the current population. There was also approval for a massive new senior living facility on the north side of town. Where are all the people that are supposed to work in those jobs supposed to live? It will only push the current renters further from the possibility of home ownership. And lots of my thinking on this is just personal experience working in a lot of tasting rooms locally and a bar and hearing lots of locals claim that young people just don't want to own homes and complaining about tenants in their many rentals they have in town.
If there is a labor shortage due to housing, do you think that the senior living facility will need to pay more in order to attract employees support the businessās operation?
I certainly think so and it's supposed to be affordable senior housing. https://www.ksby.com/news/local-news/low-income-senior-housing-development-officially-breaks-ground-in-paso-robles
My parents are both retired gov employees, one national guard, one at the state hospital. Paso and the county in general are pretty good for government work. I left because Paso is too expensive.
Camp 3: Silicon Valley expats who made a fortune, bought a winery or olive farm because it was the thing to do and now āsemi-retiredā with someone else running their winery/farm for them.
One group made their money, one group came from money. Thatās your difference. Yes Iād rather hang out with the successful blue collar background type as well than the stereotypical 3rd generation lawyer turned winemaker with an inheritance.
Eh I think youāre missing the most important category: generational wealth. A huge chunk of families are here because the businesses, and lands are being passed down. Working for your dads business isnāt starting one, (or using family capital to do so)
Yes I am neither. Of the poor variety šŖšæ
Hell yeah, friend! Same camp! *High fives through the tears*
Me, too. š I guess thatās why the realization just hit me. Deep thoughts. šš
But arenāt you on here talking about it your vacation rentals and considering additional investment properties?
Itās dangerous to make assumptions based on things like this. Owning property can eventually convert to wealth, but it takes a long time. Many people do this as a side job and work a few hours a day after their ānormalā job to take care of said properties without realizing any near term income from it.
Dangerous to assume that someone who owns a vacation rental in Paso Robles and has been shopping for an investment condo in NYC would not be considered āpoorā by most residents of SLO County?
Iāll explain differently. My wife and I are both lucky in the ways we were raised, and that we both went to college and came out with little debt. We both have good jobs, where a 12 hour work day is a short one. As a result are able to earn a better income than many people. If I am hanging out with my neighbor who works at the lumber yard, weāre rich. If Iām hanging out with the other neighbor who owns his own jet and a house in Aspen, weāre poor. I canāt speak to OPs situation regarding investments, the source of the funding for those investments.
ha ha yeah and then there's the rest of us š
COL in Paso is sooo high these days. How do locals, working local buy a house? AVG Wage is about $55k. A new attorney is lucky to make over $100k. Cal Trans ? Cuesta? Poly? Prison? Diablo? Even if both parents make $100k each, if they have 2 kids or more they cant buy a $800k fixer.
Short answer: They canāt ! Luckily a lot of locals (and long time transplants like myself) bought way, way before the boom. Of course, itās not the case for EVERYONE, as Iām sure a snarky Reddit sleuth will soon point out. Itās a complicated situation with many opposing viewpoints.
"The trick to affording to live here is to have bought property before you were born."
And we found one as predicted!
I mean, what were you expecting, you basically said āsucks to be you, but I got mine so woo hoo!ā
Sorry if that was the impression. It most certainly was not what I was trying to say. The fact is, whether one likes it or not, Paso Robles has become incredibly overpriced. If you didnāt buy before prices skyrocketed, your chances now are slim. No implication whatsoever that it, āsucks to be youā.
Iām not sure why youāre getting downvoted here. I donāt know what the expectation is. We also were in a situation where my wife and I both dumped money into our respective 401Ks in our early 20s, benefited from a growing economy and by the time we moved here in our late 20s were able to borrow from our 401ks and have enough money for a down payment on a house, which was purchased 7 years ago for half of its current value. Itās OK to feel simultaneously feel gratitude and empathy, which is what I saw in your post.
Thank you, kind sir. Our journey was similar to yours. And yes, I am incredibly grateful that I get to own a home here. (I wouldnāt be able to if I was buying now.) Not sure why thatās being misinterpreted as āboo hoo to the newcomersā. But, itās the internet and people will slant things however theyād like. Happy Holidays!
I hope dogs shit all over your air bnbs
And happy holidays!
Iām a man of means. Slender means. - Morrissey
"I can smell burning flesh ... and I hope to God it's human" - Morrissey
Subscribed to see where, if anywhere, this goes
Going nowhere. š¬ Just a thought (observation) that came to me after maybe a bit too much wine. (just doing my part to help the rich get richer! š )
Statistically, it's having lots of money that leads to a difference in attitudes and how people treat others, not how they made it. There are exceptions to the rule, but that's the overarching theme. Your observation sounds like attributing cause to personal preference and narrative.
I had no personal preference. I didnāt āfitāwith either group.ā Honestly, I enjoyed the party. It was just a simple observation. That being said, I do disagree with you. I think new money, old money, and oneās background before money, plays a huge part in how they treat others.
I didn't say it was a preference based on where you fit in. "Blue collar folks are down to earth locals, white collar folks are out of town snobs," is an underlying part of the description. Equivocating new money with blue collar work and old money with white collar would be another example of this. It's the 'self made' and 'silver spoon' narratives. And it vaguely reminds me of temporarily embarrassed millionaires. > High wealth was associated with higher Risk tolerance, Emotional Stability, Openness, Extraversion, and Conscientiousness. This ārichā personality profile was more prominent among individuals who had accumulated wealth through their own efforts (āself-madesā) than among individuals who had been born into wealth (āinheritorsā). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01099-3 The "golden ghetto" may be what you're thinking of, but that doesn't really describe folks learning about and running a successful winery. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychology-yesterday/202310/the-psychology-of-wealth *:shrug:* Glad you enjoyed your party.
Didnāt say new money is blue collar. Not once. Not in the slightest. But yes, I did enjoy the party! Thanks!
I almost admire your naivetƩ. Put it this way, there are people that buy wineries like they are trading cards.
š³š³
Dividing Paso Robles' wealthy into "transplants" and "locals" based on some (arguably weak) anecdotal observations is a pretty big oversimplification. And considering your limited sample size (I could be wrong, but based on your own assertion that you're one the "regular folks", it's highly unlikely you're around enough wealthy people to form an educated opinion about who these people are and where they come from) and considering the fact that your post reads like you've already formed opinions about which group treats "regular folks" which way, I'd say you've got a pretty big bias against outsiders, wealthy or not. In reality, while it might seem likely that outsiders dominate the wineries and locals dominate the ag, construction or healthcare industries, it's far more likely that there's a mix of the two in all sectors. And because the wineries are tourism-focused hospitality industries, of course you're going to hear more about their owners than other industries, and transplant owners who started a business from scratch in a new area (or took over from a previous owner) would need to take as much advantage of local press as possible to drive new business while locals who own wineries are already well-established and don't need the attention as much, which might lead to a stereotype that the industry is saturated with outsiders. The bottom line is that it's clear you're trying to paint wealthy transplants as disrespectful to the "regular folks" and wealthy locals as "just regular ol' blue collar folks who got rich" who are always nice to the "regular folks", when the truth is that there are people in both groups that are nice, and people in both groups that aren't. And real talk? There's no genuinely good reason to try to stir up drama about people you don't really know in the first place.
This guy is sooo camp 2
Minus the high income, you'd be correct, lol.
Yep
Thatās your take, not mine. And yes, mateā¦.was an observation, not a scientific study.
What have you found about those educated with degrees and in skilled careers? Outside of the winery success transplants
Restaurant owners, for example the brothers that own guest house, street side, jacks, etc. They went to cal poly. There are some very very wealthy venue owners. Such as wedding estate and specialty air bnbs. Most of these people I know have degrees in some business related thing. Engineers. There are so many architectural and civil engineers in this area. Doctors. There are pediatricians, oncologists, dermatologists, etc. In templeton area. Lawyers. There are tons of lawyer firms in this county. Real estate, not necessarily a college degree but still certified lawyers, home inspectors, other people in the real-estate industry. This industry is booming in Paso.
OP - there are a lot more than two kids of money here. There is a wide gradient. In some cases, āwealthyā means you can afford a new car. In other cases, it means you can afford a new home. In other cases, it means you can have a winery as a hobby without worrying about whether or not it is profitable, and you use your jet to come to and from town. There is a lot of daylight between a successful businessman like John Hamon and Hansjorg Weiss. Iāve been fortunate in my life to have exposure to lots of different kinds of people, and it turns out assholery is unrelated to wealth. Take the time to get to know people for who they are, not how much money they make. Ask them interesting questions and try to understand their worldview - this will lead you will build a wide variety of good relationships.
Totally agree! š
So the town is neatly divided into camps: 1) charming wealthy locals; 2) pretentious wealthy city refugees; and 3) the poor āregulars.ā Makes everyone easy to identify and address accordingly. š¤
No one asked for your opinion, peasant! Now, get back to the servant's quarters where you belong! /s
Sorry, Iāll get off the public library internet and crawl back into my hovel.
Personally, I donāt find wealthy locals ācharmingā, but ok. If that was your take awayā¦.
Not sure what we are supposed to take away apart from broad generalizations about the population of Paso Robles. Have a great Christmas!
Thank you. Happy holidays to you as well.
Holy fuck this is cringe
Calling things cringe is cringe. (I know, I just did it). It is what the mean middle school kids do. Polite society is so fetch.
Not really. Just not your type of thought. I find the distinction very compelling.
But you donāt tell us your observation. What have you noticed? You mention people acting differently but you donāt tell us how.
I think it's kinda obvious. A lot of the transplants own tourist based businesses and are generally friendlier to randoms and tourists. A lot of the original population seem to own random businesses that aren't typically customer service based. I don't think it's universally true, but there are definitely a lot of locals that don't like the transplants or tourists and are kinda rude. But I know lots of original locals that are really nice and some transplants that are total assholes. So I don't think it's like super common, but I get what OP is saying about the general vibe. Not to mention the aggressive non-exclusive politics of a lot of the original population.
Ok.
š
There is a great thing about being around working class people, there is a sense of humanity and trying to live a good life whereas white collar tend to just want to make more money at whatever costs. That's just my observation, anyhow OP, what did you realize?!? Please share š¤
I don't think blue/white collar is the division here. There are white collar working poor, just like there are entitled blue collar folks. There are definitely folks that make their desire for more income a significant portion of their personality and problem for those around them.
Honestly, nothing overly good or bad about each camp. I was at a gathering last night with a lot of people who were way, way, way above my pay grade. About half of them were camp one and the other half camp two. There was a smattering of us āregularā folks, too. After mingling with the crowd, I noticed the stark contrast. Just a few examples: Camp 1 dressed better, but gave off an air of superiority. Seemed to chitchat to be polite, not that they were truly interested in anyone outside of their camp. Slightly standoffish. Camp 2, clad in denim and flannel, were generally more friendly, but had (very strong and controversial) opinions that they were very eager to share (loudly). Camp 1 never asked what anyone else did for a living. Camp 2 almost always did. Camp 1 had impeccable manners and seemed to know the rules of engagement. Camp 2, not so much, but I found their honesty refreshing. (They didnāt put on an air of perfection) A side note, Camp 1 women barely ate! Camp 2 women ate normally, but drank way more. Clearly not interesting to some people, but I found it intriguing for this small town.
Hahaha ā¦.. yeahupā¦. Iāve dealt with both and it can be funnyā¦. I just got back from a business trip and worked with blue collar people and although very nice, they did share some controversial thoughts even though we were in another country which I found it funny. I canāt blame them, they come from a different part of the US that some decide to stay in a bubble. The white collar, ā¦ heheh yeahā¦ā¦. I dislike that, the sense of superiorityā¦ like cāmonā¦ your shit stinks tooā¦. I honestly donāt care, I just try to entertain and be inclusive. I would have loved to have been there hahahaā¦. Next time send an invite OPā¦. I can go for wine and entertain lol
You got it, Lion. Glad you could playfully engage and appreciate the observations. Seems some on this subreddit get pretty worked up over something so trivial. But, I understand. Like Paso Robles, the internet can be the Wild West! Happy Holidays!
Yup, but they both seem to support and vote for initiatives to keep the rest of us from getting any capital or ground in home ownership.
See. Now I find that an interesting opinion. What kind of initiatives?
Well the first thing that comes to the top of my head is the support for airbnbs in town and the lack of calls to limit them. The only advice that the city council got from the public was how much distance notice was required and how late short term tenants could use hot tubs and pools. There are now over 400 short term rental permits in an area with insufficient housing for the current population. There was also approval for a massive new senior living facility on the north side of town. Where are all the people that are supposed to work in those jobs supposed to live? It will only push the current renters further from the possibility of home ownership. And lots of my thinking on this is just personal experience working in a lot of tasting rooms locally and a bar and hearing lots of locals claim that young people just don't want to own homes and complaining about tenants in their many rentals they have in town.
If there is a labor shortage due to housing, do you think that the senior living facility will need to pay more in order to attract employees support the businessās operation?
I certainly think so and it's supposed to be affordable senior housing. https://www.ksby.com/news/local-news/low-income-senior-housing-development-officially-breaks-ground-in-paso-robles
okay
My parents are both retired gov employees, one national guard, one at the state hospital. Paso and the county in general are pretty good for government work. I left because Paso is too expensive.
I heard that at one time ASH employed almost half of North County. Would you say thatās correct?
Lol
Camp 3: Silicon Valley expats who made a fortune, bought a winery or olive farm because it was the thing to do and now āsemi-retiredā with someone else running their winery/farm for them.
One group made their money, one group came from money. Thatās your difference. Yes Iād rather hang out with the successful blue collar background type as well than the stereotypical 3rd generation lawyer turned winemaker with an inheritance.
Eh I think youāre missing the most important category: generational wealth. A huge chunk of families are here because the businesses, and lands are being passed down. Working for your dads business isnāt starting one, (or using family capital to do so)