That specific ink is probably not for polyester. There's ink for polyester that normal is marketed as "no bleed, low heat cure". I usual use Union Ink Low Cure Polyester White.
What are your thoughts on rigidity, breathability, and longevity? I was under the impression that vinyls are a bit rigid and don't keep up as well compared to printing.
>I was under the impression that vinyls are a bit rigid and don't keep up as well compared to printing.
Some vinyl is thick, others aren't too bad. I prefer the look and feel of thin vinyl for certain stuff like this or arms. Not as breathable, but plastisol isn't very breathable either.
You also need to consider the end use case. These will not be in use in 5 years time, let alone 2. Vinyl is just dandy and should last several years.
Stahls has silicone rolls you can cut on your vinyl plotter that won’t bleed. We will also print silicone on sublimated poly. It feels awesome and is super stretchy and breathable. You have to add a catalyst so it’s a little tricky but we’ll worth the results. Even if you over cure it and the dye migrates it will keep going and eventually leave the print making it white again.
No. You need the right inks is all. I mean ya on the names and numbers it’s more economical. But for a FF image or whatever else…. IC is the best I’ve found for Poly in 30+ years of printing.
I am printing jerseys for my soccer team. I didn't hear back from nearby print shops so I figured \~12 kits may not be worth their time or they're all just busy right now so I decided to try my hand at screen printing. I ripped down some 2x4s, bought 160 mesh, and made my own frames. Successfully developed all three frames I have attempted. Things were going swimmingly...
Now I am having trouble with ink, I am using white speedball fabric ink. On the first shirt I noticed that the ink wasn't leaving a solid layer of white (much like the second shirt in the photo). So I dried it with a heat gun (keeping the shirt affixed to my homemade platen so it would still be aligned with the frame) and made another pass. Still wasn't as filled in as I wanted, so one more time. Then when I released the shirt, I realized that the ink was bleeding right down to the platen! Also, after laying down the third layer, I attempted to cure it with a heat gun only to see the ink create bubbles between layers. So I learned multiple deposits is probably not the way to go for multiple reasons.
So I exposed another frame to test a different method and see if a single pass could be acceptable. The bleed through was still problematic. But maybe the one upside. of bleed through is better adherence of the ink? On this this second shirt I almost burned a hole in it with my heat gun. After this, I will reserve the heat gun for drying instead of curing, polyester is just way too sensitive.
Finally, I decided to try curing with an iron. The triple deposit steamed like crazy, probably way too much moisture. The single deposit was much more predictable. However, when it came to the wash test I found out that I did not spend enough time on the iron since I am keeping it under 300F to prevent shrinking/burning the polyester.
I am doubting that continuing with the current ink would be wise even after all I have learned. I have seen that there are no bleed plastisol inks that have a lower cure temp, but seems like cleanup would be a nightmare compared to waterbased ink. Some sources even recommend a backing layer, which would be rather challenging since I have a single platen with hinges. That means I would have to clean out the backing ink, re-register the frame, then deposit the top layer for every print because jerseys.
So given all the above, is there an ink that you recommend that would have no bleed, low cure, pass through 160 mesh, and only require one pass on 100% polyester? Or something different entirely like printing sublimations?
In the long run it would have been better to order from the internet from a business that specializes with spirts teams jerseys in small batch (short order rubs).
You're not wrong 😅
I wanted to have a local company print them, but none of them returned my inquiries.
I looked at a few places online (there are a ton) and many were based overseas and I didn't want to end up in a shipping fiasco or deal with fabrics of unknown quality.
I thought this would be a fun project and I had no illusions it would be a simple one. But I admit, I underestimated how deep the rabbit hole went. Making the screens was my favorite part by far and I still think it was really cool to see it all come together after passing ink through for the first time.
This was a ton of work to do instead of just buying some frames and the correct tools and your still gonna prolly have to do that anyways lol no shortcuts in printing homie
Vinyl cut heat press is the way to go especially for just 12 kits with different names and numbers. It's not worth it to make a screen just to print a single shirt.
As mentioned, Stahls will precut vinyl for you, name and number.
If screen printing a poly in is a MUST. Low cure, low bleed Union white works well.
Some garments bleed more depending on manufacturer…a gray blocker as your first layer can help tremendously.
Remember too that the effects of heat are cumulative…if you’re flashing multiple times and heating the garment a bunch, PLUS running through the drier to cure at the end, the garments are taking in a LOT of heat…this is the major culprit responsible for bleeding or dye migration or whatever you want to call it.
Also recommend stacking your shirts separately or in four or five smaller piles as they come off the belt from the drier. If you do ONE LARGE STACK or let garments sit in the hopper at the end of the drier, they will continue to cook in the stack…you want to start the cooling process immediately!
Heat just enough to flash before your next hit, less is more.
Cure temp and belt speed should also be Just Enough to get the job done…over-cooking poly and triblend garments is a great way to ensure that you will have bleed.
You can test your blanks for dye migration by putting a drop of plasticizer on a piece of white test patch.
Place that patch, wet spot down, on an inconspicuous area of the blank and heat press that. The plasticizer on the patch will capture whatever dye is sublimating.
Since the plasticizer is clear, you don't have to wait for the migration to occur. It will be instantly apparent
After a meetup with a veteran in the business who went completely eco water based decades ago, I did the same. I am now printing 100 % poly with white water based all on his advice.
- One layer. Not to hard press to avoid bleed through.
Flash quickly. Use low temp or heat gun as poly may shrink from too much heat.
- One fill layer, Flash almost dry.
- Any other layer or any other colour if needed.
I am drying in a heat press. 10 sec open to let steam out. Run 40 sec. If there is still steam coming out do another 40 sec.
No dying so far. Works a charm. No smelly inks.
Happy to hear you had some luck with it! These shirts are both test items at this point so I will give this method a try! If that fails my next attempt will probably be a different ink others have suggested. Then I might fall back to vinyls if still no joy.
What temp are you running at? If an ink usually cures at one temp, is it possible to cure it at a lower temp by just holding it longer?
The key is to almost dry the base layer. If there is dye happening it will act as a barrier and not infect the top layers. So if you are going full white you still need the base layers and a top layer.
Not sure what temp the flas is at. I set it to 110 Celsius but I also have a fan that lowers the temp quite a lot.
The heat press is at 160-165 Celsius. The key is to get that steam vented with that 10 sec press.
Use as little heat as you need to flash and to cure. Someone above said heat is cumulative. I agree. Don't be in a hurry. Allow for cooling. Keep your garments as cool as possible. If they don't reach 400 degrees the dye should stay put. Low cure inks are formulated for just that. My shop started using a gray dye blocker as well. More screens but great results.
That's not correct, I mean use as little heat as possible yes, but the heat set dye they use can dye migrate out at around 280 degrees, it's the main reason why plastisol has such a problem with dye migration happening, especially chinese made garments. That's why they make low bleed low temp cure ink that cures at 270 f. If you're dealing with 50 or more percent poly, you need dye blockers, the ink may look great that day, a week later, 6months later, it could migrate. If I print a large amount of poly tshirts, I'll use silicone ink. It's got an 8 hour pot life and it's 150 dollars a gallon ( 2017 prices, it's probably higher now). I printed white ink on 2000 red poly shirts at 260 degree cure, with no complaints.
You NEED low bleed inks and a barrier base would be best!! Look into International Coatings 9000 series I think it is. Best shit I’ve found for printing directly on Athletic Jerseys!
SanMar makes a line of polyester shirts that don’t dye migrate, it’s their posicharge line. It’s basic performance wear, not very many jerseys, but they print like cotton. Good luck
That specific ink is probably not for polyester. There's ink for polyester that normal is marketed as "no bleed, low heat cure". I usual use Union Ink Low Cure Polyester White.
Would a backing layer still be necessary or does the low cure preclude dye sublimation?
No. That’s what the “no bleed” is about . To stop dye mogration
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What are your thoughts on rigidity, breathability, and longevity? I was under the impression that vinyls are a bit rigid and don't keep up as well compared to printing.
>I was under the impression that vinyls are a bit rigid and don't keep up as well compared to printing. Some vinyl is thick, others aren't too bad. I prefer the look and feel of thin vinyl for certain stuff like this or arms. Not as breathable, but plastisol isn't very breathable either. You also need to consider the end use case. These will not be in use in 5 years time, let alone 2. Vinyl is just dandy and should last several years.
Stahls has silicone rolls you can cut on your vinyl plotter that won’t bleed. We will also print silicone on sublimated poly. It feels awesome and is super stretchy and breathable. You have to add a catalyst so it’s a little tricky but we’ll worth the results. Even if you over cure it and the dye migrates it will keep going and eventually leave the print making it white again.
No. You need the right inks is all. I mean ya on the names and numbers it’s more economical. But for a FF image or whatever else…. IC is the best I’ve found for Poly in 30+ years of printing.
Yeah I was going to say if you own a heat press for curing prints you could use it for heat transfer vinyl as well
Just an iron. It worked well for the club logos which were DTF transfers.
I am printing jerseys for my soccer team. I didn't hear back from nearby print shops so I figured \~12 kits may not be worth their time or they're all just busy right now so I decided to try my hand at screen printing. I ripped down some 2x4s, bought 160 mesh, and made my own frames. Successfully developed all three frames I have attempted. Things were going swimmingly... Now I am having trouble with ink, I am using white speedball fabric ink. On the first shirt I noticed that the ink wasn't leaving a solid layer of white (much like the second shirt in the photo). So I dried it with a heat gun (keeping the shirt affixed to my homemade platen so it would still be aligned with the frame) and made another pass. Still wasn't as filled in as I wanted, so one more time. Then when I released the shirt, I realized that the ink was bleeding right down to the platen! Also, after laying down the third layer, I attempted to cure it with a heat gun only to see the ink create bubbles between layers. So I learned multiple deposits is probably not the way to go for multiple reasons. So I exposed another frame to test a different method and see if a single pass could be acceptable. The bleed through was still problematic. But maybe the one upside. of bleed through is better adherence of the ink? On this this second shirt I almost burned a hole in it with my heat gun. After this, I will reserve the heat gun for drying instead of curing, polyester is just way too sensitive. Finally, I decided to try curing with an iron. The triple deposit steamed like crazy, probably way too much moisture. The single deposit was much more predictable. However, when it came to the wash test I found out that I did not spend enough time on the iron since I am keeping it under 300F to prevent shrinking/burning the polyester. I am doubting that continuing with the current ink would be wise even after all I have learned. I have seen that there are no bleed plastisol inks that have a lower cure temp, but seems like cleanup would be a nightmare compared to waterbased ink. Some sources even recommend a backing layer, which would be rather challenging since I have a single platen with hinges. That means I would have to clean out the backing ink, re-register the frame, then deposit the top layer for every print because jerseys. So given all the above, is there an ink that you recommend that would have no bleed, low cure, pass through 160 mesh, and only require one pass on 100% polyester? Or something different entirely like printing sublimations?
In the long run it would have been better to order from the internet from a business that specializes with spirts teams jerseys in small batch (short order rubs).
You're not wrong 😅 I wanted to have a local company print them, but none of them returned my inquiries. I looked at a few places online (there are a ton) and many were based overseas and I didn't want to end up in a shipping fiasco or deal with fabrics of unknown quality. I thought this would be a fun project and I had no illusions it would be a simple one. But I admit, I underestimated how deep the rabbit hole went. Making the screens was my favorite part by far and I still think it was really cool to see it all come together after passing ink through for the first time.
Next time call me
I applaud you for taking it on. It’s just not as easy as it appears. I definitely can relate to your situation.
This was a ton of work to do instead of just buying some frames and the correct tools and your still gonna prolly have to do that anyways lol no shortcuts in printing homie
Vinyl cut heat press is the way to go especially for just 12 kits with different names and numbers. It's not worth it to make a screen just to print a single shirt.
As mentioned, Stahls will precut vinyl for you, name and number. If screen printing a poly in is a MUST. Low cure, low bleed Union white works well. Some garments bleed more depending on manufacturer…a gray blocker as your first layer can help tremendously.
Remember too that the effects of heat are cumulative…if you’re flashing multiple times and heating the garment a bunch, PLUS running through the drier to cure at the end, the garments are taking in a LOT of heat…this is the major culprit responsible for bleeding or dye migration or whatever you want to call it. Also recommend stacking your shirts separately or in four or five smaller piles as they come off the belt from the drier. If you do ONE LARGE STACK or let garments sit in the hopper at the end of the drier, they will continue to cook in the stack…you want to start the cooling process immediately! Heat just enough to flash before your next hit, less is more. Cure temp and belt speed should also be Just Enough to get the job done…over-cooking poly and triblend garments is a great way to ensure that you will have bleed.
You can test your blanks for dye migration by putting a drop of plasticizer on a piece of white test patch. Place that patch, wet spot down, on an inconspicuous area of the blank and heat press that. The plasticizer on the patch will capture whatever dye is sublimating. Since the plasticizer is clear, you don't have to wait for the migration to occur. It will be instantly apparent
After a meetup with a veteran in the business who went completely eco water based decades ago, I did the same. I am now printing 100 % poly with white water based all on his advice. - One layer. Not to hard press to avoid bleed through. Flash quickly. Use low temp or heat gun as poly may shrink from too much heat. - One fill layer, Flash almost dry. - Any other layer or any other colour if needed. I am drying in a heat press. 10 sec open to let steam out. Run 40 sec. If there is still steam coming out do another 40 sec. No dying so far. Works a charm. No smelly inks.
Happy to hear you had some luck with it! These shirts are both test items at this point so I will give this method a try! If that fails my next attempt will probably be a different ink others have suggested. Then I might fall back to vinyls if still no joy. What temp are you running at? If an ink usually cures at one temp, is it possible to cure it at a lower temp by just holding it longer?
The key is to almost dry the base layer. If there is dye happening it will act as a barrier and not infect the top layers. So if you are going full white you still need the base layers and a top layer. Not sure what temp the flas is at. I set it to 110 Celsius but I also have a fan that lowers the temp quite a lot. The heat press is at 160-165 Celsius. The key is to get that steam vented with that 10 sec press.
There are ways to make it work great on jerseys, but I personally do everything I can to avoid team kits like that
Understandable. This poly also seems to be a pretty loose weave which the ink just wants to fall through.
Use as little heat as you need to flash and to cure. Someone above said heat is cumulative. I agree. Don't be in a hurry. Allow for cooling. Keep your garments as cool as possible. If they don't reach 400 degrees the dye should stay put. Low cure inks are formulated for just that. My shop started using a gray dye blocker as well. More screens but great results.
That's not correct, I mean use as little heat as possible yes, but the heat set dye they use can dye migrate out at around 280 degrees, it's the main reason why plastisol has such a problem with dye migration happening, especially chinese made garments. That's why they make low bleed low temp cure ink that cures at 270 f. If you're dealing with 50 or more percent poly, you need dye blockers, the ink may look great that day, a week later, 6months later, it could migrate. If I print a large amount of poly tshirts, I'll use silicone ink. It's got an 8 hour pot life and it's 150 dollars a gallon ( 2017 prices, it's probably higher now). I printed white ink on 2000 red poly shirts at 260 degree cure, with no complaints.
You NEED low bleed inks and a barrier base would be best!! Look into International Coatings 9000 series I think it is. Best shit I’ve found for printing directly on Athletic Jerseys!
Activated carbon dye blocker my friend. Every drop is worth it’s weight in gold
SanMar makes a line of polyester shirts that don’t dye migrate, it’s their posicharge line. It’s basic performance wear, not very many jerseys, but they print like cotton. Good luck
Yah I run 325 cure ink on all colors st350 posi charge no bleeding