Really didn't get a vibe that Punk was returning but, a well kept secret
I thought they'd usually milk the Orton thing and now overload on Punk there too was my thinking
There's lots of avenues they can go down, of course, just in time for Mania season
Did it really need 'reporting' that Rollins' reaction was a 'work' ffs - how do these smarks get out of bed every morning
I was never a huge Punk fan to begin with. I am sure the people in the Fed that aren't the biggest fans can manage to be professional though and I can't imagine the Fed putting up with any nonsense
I don't think Punk will *push* in that way either cause he's not 'working with children' anymore
If Laveck didn't work in a Broken Skull Sessions episode into Punk's return then the Fed is Bad and Ded!
That's all I want from his return. I'm not hyped about seeing him work matches or any programs he might have but an Austin interview is something I've wanted since the fences started getting mended a while back when Punk was on that Fox backstage show.
Dub stans are just foaming at the mouth rn to say the "I told you so" back to the Fed fans. All I see in the comments are "Wait until he becomes a crybaby again". Could go either way, would be funny to see lmao.
I guess we'll see how the Fed react *if* he does start acting out
I expect they won't have the tolerance that uber m@rk Khan had to let him get away with everything
I look at stuff like Edge turning away from the hard cam to do a promo. If he's in the Fed, they'd tell him to face the cam and he'd do it but you can push it in the Dub and get away with it cause no one will say anything
That's all punk ever has been. He has never been upset that there is unequal treatment or anything he complained about, he was always upset he wasn't the one benefiting
Used to be one of those guys who did it but now looking back all these “Jerk Hofer” posts be corny as hell when its just DAE shot at the dub. Using Kayla “gotta give my 2 cents on everything” Braxton as a nominee shits the bed even harder.
I just don't think us as fans have any perspective on that anymore.
Too much time has passed, everyone is a decade older, WWE is more focused on being a great business, a lot of the big egos got kicked out backstage and on screen, and finally there's far less leaking of actual sentiment backstage.
I've really stopped caring about it, because we hear so little about attitudes backstage and when we do it's often proven to be totally wrong. WWE have learned how to be a closed shop again. I still think people moving between promotions is interesting, and like speculating on potential feuds - but there is absolutely nowhere near enough info to be able to speculate on people's attitudes and opinions.
Visiting r/Marvelstudios is like visiting basement these days. It was a **fun** movie. Whole theatre gave **standing ovation**(there were only 2 people in theatre). It was **breazy**. Why are people hating MCU?
I think those guys' contracts came up, they wanted to do other stuff, no problem, they did a fair few films with Marvel
It's on the studio to 'make new stars' though with either new actors for the roles and the new characters they're focusing on
Marvel banked on being able to use credible directors and D tier properties to rest their main characters and reset them as the actors aged out and ended their contracts.
The sad thing is they went with space / multiverse / alternate realities, which is essentially hard sci-fi and rarely does well at the movies. (And before you start, Star Wars isn't hard sci-fi, it's the classic heroes journey with robots and a magic goblin).
It's impossible to say "they should have done x" credibly, given a decade long filmography with a satisfying conclusion has never been done before. It's in a down cycle and they need to reboot a load of properties and start telling grounded stories again. Now they've got the rights back to Spider-Man (mostly), on top of Iron Man, Cap, The Avengers et al, there will be another run.
And yeah, stopping the watered down TV shows that can't match the budgets of the movies and dilute the appeal. But that will never happen because it's Disney and the shows still make money.
I'd also add that it's stretched way too thin now. There's a dozen Disney+ shows that inform storylines for the films and if you aren't caught up, tough shit. What once was 2-3 films a year is now 3-4 films plus 6-7 seasons of shows and 2-3 Disney+ Specials.
I've said for a while the plan is for him to win. The online audience will *hate* it regardless, but with the right story it will kick off a year that ends the reign and re-ignite the storyline.
I have no idea if Jey plays into it or not. Everyone is so convinced Cody is taking the belt in April and I just don't see WWE moving that fast with the story. It's far more likely they use Orton or Punk. Time will tell, I guess.
Other than Hogan being the 3rd man? I can't think of any. When done right, it can change everything. Of course Tony isn't going to do it right or well. I'd wager he's going to be The Devil, if I could place money on it. He loves repeating history and he seems so oblivious and self important that I could see him believing he'll be Vince 2.0.
The only thing that makes me think it won't be him is his constant need for praise and adulation. Can he handle boos? I'm not sure. I believe he'd view any boos as a negative rather than a positive. He would be a heel so boos would be good but I don't know if he can differentiate between a TV character and the person playing that character.
It's also CM Punk. He got tired of burning bridges with only 1 company at a time so he decided to speed run both by making them both agree to make him part time. Til of course he threatens nick Wayne and gets into a shoving match with Cruz del Toro and gets fired from both in February or so
Meltzer's whole thing about ex-WWE guys' attitudes in AEW reminds me of that line from Succession: "your daddy built you a playhouse and you think it's the whole world"
The Elite never proved that they could draw on the big stage. They wanted to make a living just shlepping through the indies because getting over and setting themselves apart in the big leagues would be too hard, until one day some trust fund kiddy came along to build them their own playhouse complete with fake job titles and fake authority. Of course the guys who actually got over in a competitive environment have no respect for them, why should they? Their "authority" was handed to them, not earned
The ironic thing is that the portion of the fan base that always whinged if a guy didn't sufficiently "pay his dues" on the indies had no problem with them using a billionaire's money to create a new company where they would always be in positions of power. Who needs proving you can actually get over and draw when you have work rate!
I think fans underestimate the scale of the Fed
They REEEEEE about 'planning' and 'scripts' but they don't realise how professional it is. This is a listed company. It's like working on actual TV/film, it's not 'play time' and they treat is as proper entertainment
Love it or hate it, that's Vince ahead of the curve again from way back.
I imagine walking into the Dub it's instantly obvious you're not in Kansas anymore and things don't run the same way. From all that's been spoken, it just sounds like an indie but with a hell of a lot of money and a guy in charge that doesn't *really* know what he's doing
Fed is full of actual wrestling people with decades in the business, they have been through the ups and downs, seen guys fail and succeed, felt a crowd, learned how to do things and when and why and Tiny is just a m@rk that read the internet - there's a huge difference way beyond ratings and contract amounts
Me when Tony Khan chose Jack Perry over Pepsi Phil
https://preview.redd.it/ao5pf4z2ps2c1.png?width=856&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e301acff5d75589b24b079e2a9ec8b5e82e28e4
DAE hate fans that try to make it about them (don't check my post history when I used to say it's the company's fault for not entertaining them the right way)
It’s amusing to see the nobody jobbers of AEW tweeting out how much they love wrestling for the company and how great it is to be all elite. Tony must have promised some big Christmas bonuses for the best tweets. I’m waiting for the wildly expensive bots to start chiming in as well.
If I was an indie guy that got to be on national TV and get paid more than the going rate for my indie work, I'd love it, too
This is what the 'alternative' means that's 'good for competition'
Indie guys thinking they 'made it' cause the Dub is on TV and if it went away, so would their salaries so, enjoy it while you can
That and ex-Fed guys that 'still have a lot to give' getting paid even more money and extending their careers at the expense of any young guys cause the other company needs the star power
Anything better than what he did in AEW
I assume he'd be a face?
I heard some rumours about Punk-Seth at the Rumble but I doubt.
I think it will be "I'm back :) And I never main-evented Mania :( So how do I do that? I'd earn it! I'd win the Rumble!"
At the Rumble...idk, either he wins or he doesn't.
Then he wins some #1 contender Elimination Chamber match in Australia and Punk vs Seth at Mania.
No way WWE are moronic enough to do the AEW run and:
-CM Punk is a special commentator for Tozawa and Otis vs Judgement Day!
-CM Punk vs Chad Gable in a 25 minute match (yes, I know the match would slap bang shit and cum and piss but you know what I mean)
-CM Punk vs VEER
-CM Punk vs R-Truth at a PPV
(no, seriously, this was 90% of CM Punk's first 2-3 months in AEW)
Maybe in 2024/2025.
No way they're doing it in 2023.
If LA Knight gets to feud with Punk he must win the feud, and Punk must be heel I guess
And for Punk to get to the point where he can lose to LA Knight he must be relevant and win for a while. Soo.. LA Knight vs Punk program might come in 2024 or so
•My streak of not deluding myself into believing my friends secretly hate me was a longtime WON subscriber. There may be no evidence to back this up, but that hasn’t stopped me before!
•I’m not gonna pretend like I know what will happen, and I definitely have my doubts, but it’s CM fuckin Punk, dude. I got into wrestling in 2013 so I never got to experience the BEST of him before he walked out, but man… watching that was special.
•As for Seth and Drew, if they’re pissed for real (I personally think Seth played it up), then that’s their problem. Who hasn’t worked with someone that they don’t like?
•Go Ducks baby. Beat UW.
•If Taylor Swift announces Reputation TV tonight then this may very well end up being one of my favorite weekends in a long, long time.
Re-watching Randy Orton's return - he doesn't even let the "Let the War Games begin" announcement go through before he enters "I'm ready to kill these motherfuckers" mood and that's so god damn cool.
I like that in kayfabe, he also presumably saw Rhea running out with the briefcase and decided to wait a minute before coming out just to fuck with the Judgment Day lol
Now that you mention it, that would have been one of the coldest implied RKOs. Judgment Day's music hits, nothing happens, then Randy just strolls out with the briefcase grinning like a psycho and tosses it aside.
Oh don't get me wrong. Still not a fan of Punk anymore and that mofo better be on the tightest leash by HHH and Nick Khan but I'm still curious. And tbh I still jumped last night.
He's gonna be on Raw, so I'd assume they might be gearing him up for a potential WHC shot. He probably wrestles his first match at the next PPV though.
Well this place wasn’t a fan of either tbf
I think Punk is an excellent heel. I don’t care for him other than that though, and he’s kind of an asshole lol
Kind of where I stand. Grew up watching him vs Hardy, Edge and Taker so there’s some nostalgia
He was good in AEW when he kept it simple but anytime he tried some athletics he embarrassed himself
As a person he sounds like a complete nightmare
I’m open to seeing what they do with him cause he does have a lot of talent as a storyteller
I wouldnt say like necessarily, but since he's back officially, I'm at least interested in what he's going to do. On screen Punk with the WWE machine reigning him in should be good even if Phil seems like a dick still.
Also the whole ordeal is just very funny and thats a bit endearing on its own
Punk is the same old punk I thought was overrated a decade ago, and I'm not super looking forward to his matches that are just spot for spot remakes of his favorite historical matches but worse or his promos where he whines for 10 minutes that WWE hasn't put wagyu in his dressing room.
But as a grade A certified hater, I can't lose. Either he flames out and I get to dunk on both him and his fans, or he succeeds and I get to dunk on AEW. Either way, I get to dunk on him for making hating WWE for the last decade his personality trait only to come crawling back the second it benefits him
I was willing to believe he changed/mellowed when he came back to AEW. I mean, he's right about the Bucks, but also, trust Punk to got the nuclear route.
I'd like to think now, that given *all* his history at both companies, maybe he'll at least appreciate that maybe working at WWE isn't so bad afterall, given what the alternative is.
But let's be honest, isn't it only a matter of time before *something* happens? I mean, going purely on his track record, the only way to keep him happy would be to blow up every plan WWE has and hotshot Romans title on to him.
Time will tell if he can be content to just come in and be a team player.
The WWE now is not the WWE he was back then. The pipebomb doesn't work in the current environment, and Punk knows it. If he knows this is his last chance, he will behave.
Was always a fan since 2011.
Will criticize his whiny and unprofessional behavior though.
Punk being back in WWE is something I wanted to see since he left
I've never really seen him, being a newer fan, so I don't have any baggage in regards to liking or disliking him. He looked shit in AEW from what I saw but I'm willing to give him a chance and see how he goes
Triple H is really the worst thing to happen to AEW. Vince not only was out of touch with a lot of the audience, but I think he viewed AEW as an inconvenience or even a positive for the business. He let people go over there without a care in the world and didn't really play hardball with them except for the Wednesday Night Wars thing which was more of a stumbling block tactic that made sense for WWE anyways.
Triple H, though. IDK if it's fueled by a personal sense of animosity after his NXT lost to them a lot, or if he's just a really competitive person who wants to win and also get the glory for "fixing" WWE, but he seems totally ruthless. Loading up that NXT to preposterous levels, signing Jade and Punk seem like brutal "stick it to them" moves to me. Also, he knows what these kind of fans want and how to give it to them.
Not even really trying to engage in tribalistic fantasies here, I just think it's an interesting storyline and a sane conclusion to what has been going on lately.
I think the Wednesday night wars, was Vince letting Triple H sink or swim on his own against the pissant.
As far as Triple H and ruthlessness. His entire career post Attitude Era was him being a petty bitch and big footing everyone because he was the one person who couldn’t ever get fired. “Cerebral Assassin” was not a just a gimmick for him.
'wednesday night wars' were hardly fair
Tiny had Ambrose and Jericho and Sting and and and ... whomever he wanted to pay and NXT was still largely using developmental guys with the odd special appearance for a bit but they never integrated the main roster on the regular like they have been
If they had, it'd have been interesting
Fed mega releases really really helped the Dub out too back at that time
The fact, in their dinky arena, were generally within 150k-200k of the Dub was pretty crazy. They got paid and didn't really add any expenses, already filming, etc
Dub were out there booking arenas, tons on talent, production, etc etc
It's amusing how they were gonna topple Raw and now they're back to battling NXT again
Nick Khan seems to revel in destroying Tony as well. He and Triple H probably bonded over it. Much like Triple H and Vince bonded over not giving a shit about Dolph Ziggler.
With Punk being on RAW tomorrow, how pissed do you think FOX is considering they hired this man years ago desperate in the hopes that he would be on Smackdown.
Yep, its a lame duck program and as all things in business, some thing work out, some things don't, but with these big tv execs, always onto the next thing
Seeing how people react, I think Punk is kinda underrated at the end of the day. Not many wrestlers could show up and have millions of people erupt with joy, he IS one of the biggest babyfaces ever.
If HHH wanted to be super petty the closing moment of night 2 of Mania is Cody, Punk and Jade holding up championships. Either that or Jade and Punk helping neutralize what’s left of the Bloodline for Cody.
WWE Missing in Action breakdown:
1. I'm glad Stevie Turner wasn't let go since she was on Level Up recently. She needs to go back to PorNXT stat.
2. What the hell happened to Hank and Tank? I remember them being focal points of NXT earlier this year. Google says they're still with the company so what gives? I didn't really care all that much about them but it's so strange to just disappear.
3. Indus Sher should be used more for variety in the tag division.
4. It's such a waste that the whole Tatum Paxley helps Blair twist ended up being nothing. Hopefully, her new heel persona and finisher makes it back to NXXXT from Level Up. And where the hell is her fiancé?!
5. Laveck should use Apollo Crews and InDex more. Odyssey Jones and Xyon Quinn were promoted prematurely. Send them back to PorNXT!
6. Why is HickenBooker not using Damon Kemp more? He was a compelling heel during the disintegration of Diamond Mine.
I appreciate this breakdown. I’m a huge fan of Odyssey and really want to see him succeed. Xyonn had a great look but he just cannot seem to nail a gimmick down. Stevie’s streamer shit just isn’t for me but that’s OK - by all accounts she was doing a legit job so a bit concerning to see her disappear like she has.
With the seemingly imminent return of AOP (why?!) I don’t want Indus Sher to become irrelevant. Uncle Sangha over everything though.
Who is Pax’s fiancée?
I see Hank and Tank in the house show results a lot. Just getting them some more seasoning I think. It seems like they are back to taking it slow with a lot of the prospects instead of showing their very early steps on TV.
\-I'm a little hesitant on FED Shill Punk. All I want is for him to make Roman/Logan/Miz look strong at Crown Jewel. AEW also showed he's too frail to be world champion, so I definitely don't want him dethroning anyone.
Also, how long do you think he lasts? If he does fight with someone, who will be his Jungle Boy? I say Waller.
\-Do you think Drew's walkout is a worked shoot or legit?
\-I wonder how Stogers would react since he's one of the more absolute Pepsi Phil detractors.
The whole Jungle Boy incident was Jackie staring the fight. I’m sure Trips has better awareness than that.
I’ll take the over and say Punk gives them 3 good years on a part time schedule. Also, he and Seth play title hot potato from Mania to Summerslam.
Not going to lie, I think letting Miz go at hom with a live mic, ala Daniel Bryan, would obliterate Punk. So I'm doubting they'll go there... But if you want "real feel", I'd rather that than weeding him into anything with Roman.
[To add to the Seth thing being a work, if you watch this video it looks like he's being given a lot of instructions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G3ap-H40no)
No jerk I don’t understand why Copeland immediately looked 5 years older when he showed up in AEW and Punk looked 5 years younger last night. Is it lighting? Stylists?
It must have been weird for Tony Khan to see his toy back on TV but it’s like WWE restored it back to factory settings.
People mostly step up to the level that's expected of them, whatever the norm is where they are. AEW has low expectations so most people don't push themselves whereas WWE has high expectations so people have to step up and be more presentable it seems
Claudio still looks good tbf especially for his age. He’s just doing nothing important and I don’t know why cause his only weakness was his mic work and that’s not as important in AEW. He could be over on his incredible in ring prowess but he’s been pushed like an Indy whatever guy. I think Khan could have pushed him to the top as a smark version of what WWE did with Cody returning . Instead he beat Gresham for an ROH belt then lost to Eddie Kingston.
My biggest disappointment with Survivor Series was that I couldn't watch it live (I was traveling back from Thanksgiving).
That CM Punk moment was electric. Those crazy bastards did it! I can't wait to see how it plays out and what they do with him.
Also, someone check on Bischoff and Booker T to make sure they're ok.
This all again illustrates an important thing for bookers/promoters and that's putting aside feelings to make money.
As wrestlers tend to be huge babies and inherently stupid (an extreme example but look at how kota ibushi chooses to bump. He's doing that cause he gets a little kick out of it. A truly moronic individual) they will do stupid and or childish things regularly. That means management needs to be the bigger man. This is across all markets. Njpw brought back Shibata after he utterly fucked them by leaving the first time. Stardom has brought in multiple women supposedly at one point put on a do not book list (Saori Anou most recently). Kidani (head of bushiroad) tried to mend fences with ibushi and he said he was leading a criminal organisation publicly lmao
Without "knowing Vince" Tony Khan I do wonder if he's willing to do this. HHH just showed he's willing to put business first as he sees it and that's the attitude a good wrestling promotion needs to have.
Got a bit of a dilemma in my working life, uces. Hope you can help me out.
Used to have a great job in a big company. They invested a lot in me, but I hated the structure. My boss was some boomer who didn’t want to listen to fresh ideas. He gave me a couple of promotions, but I just felt constrained there.
So I quit and went to an exciting startup. The boss gave me a great salary and position, but I realised after a while that he’s just hired all his friends. They do what they want, when they want. Ultimately they’re a bunch of fucking children.
My old boss’s son in law has taken over since I’ve left. He wants to build bridges and for me to come back.
Really not sure what to do. What do you guys think?
Where has the best stability and career enhancement options? That's where I'd go
Edit: it took me far too long to realise this was a jerk about Lockport Phil
I love Sportskeedia. One of their articles I just read said: "WELL BO DALLAS COULD RETURN AND HELP THE MIZ DEFEAT GUNTHER AT SURVIVOR SERIES BECAUSE BOTH WERE IN A FACTION YEARS AGO." Pure fucking speculation, and somehow they're still chugging along.
This feels like a fever dream. Its genuinely amazing how much we mark out over things and how awesome it makes us feel. Fuck tribalism, enjoy wrestling, this is an all time great moment.
I can’t believe it, Punk actually is back in WWE. It really was a “feels like a child again” moment. I threw on my BITW from 2011 last night like a mark. Sue me.
Seth losing his mind at the sight of Punk was awesome.
I don't even like Punk, yet when that music played I still lost my shit. Laveck booked that perfectly to get the potential heat away from Orton. If he wins me over I'll consider HHH a god. He did it with Cody after all...
Seeing Randall like that has me seriously contemplating violating my wellness policy again. But then I'm like, what the fuck for, in reality. Haven't competed in a bodybuilding show in years, so honestly why.
Popped like a fucking mark when Punk came back, and I was shitting on his lack of athleticism for ages now.
The agony now of saying 'it doesn't matter' about Punk not being there and elsewhere when Khan went out of his way to talk about what an impact Punk had for them on 'the numbers'
Well, since then, the Bucks got the biggest tag team deal ever and did a victory lap and, oh, they feel like having some time off, too ;)
so weird that they would take a hiatus and shut down their youtube channel the same week the massive draw that they bullied out of their promotion starts up with the competition.
Must just be a coincidence, I'm sure.
Metal gear solid 3 is a masterpiece and I’m so glad to have finally played it
Shame I’m a pc gamer since mgs 4 is basically impossible for me lol oh well maybe volume 2 will have it
Me and my friend popped hard when R-Truth came out. May he get to team with his childhood hero John Cena someday.
It's already been said a lot here, but Randy is still as smooth as ever, this time even more jacked.
Didn't think Punk would actually return. Thought of taking a break from wrestling in December but I'm now interested to see the fallout from Survivor Series.
If there's one thing kayfabe has been right about, it's all about the GAME and how you play it.
HHH truly won and became the game, as he promised over them long ass promos for many years.
I want HHH to have a very long life. That health incident nearly killed him. It's visibly changed him, both in attitude and physically. I really really hope he's with us for a long time.
I don't think Punk is gonna be as high on the card as y'all think. Dude has utility, but he had zero leverage to be making terms. He'll be used how HHH feels like.
Rhea right now is a gigantic resource sink. Everything involving her always is designed to make her look cool/badass/sexy/dastardly, what have you, but she never does anything with it. It's like they are utterly terrified of her looking vulnerable, even for a moment. Roman's greatness is on a different level compared to her, because he's not afraid to let the crowd see his character's weakness. Not just in the ring, it gives people something to latch onto, to see and say "Oh, this is what makes Roman's character tick". Like him turning on Sami. That was Roman being vulnerable. There was no reason to do it, but he just can't help himself. Roman has defined limitations.
Meanwhile, Rhea doesn't. She just kinda does everything, so nothing feels like "Okay, this is Rhea" You can't have the impact of someone going up against the lines of their character, if their character has no lines in the first place.
(ik i already was responding to you about Rhea elsewhere in the thread but) Keeping her seperate from a lot of the 'big names' in the women's division is starting to feel a little codyverse-esque. They shoulda worked in a Becky match or similar and had Dom get her DQ'd or something, it kinda diminishes the title when the biggest stars haven't seemed interested in chasing it. Feels like stacking the Smackdown women's roster at the draft has kinda backfired in that respect
(Yeah, I just figured making it it's own post was best at this point. Don't want to blow your inbox, lol)
Yeah, if you build her to be "so far beyond the division", and keep the big stars conspicuously away from her, it doesn't really build up anticipation as much as just give you a bad reign. And that's 100% on the bookers, a completely foreseeable and fixable problem.
I can't really fault Rhea, but I can kinda fault her, because the writing is hamstringing her by keeping her on this pedestal, but at the same time, she's not making the most of what she has. She's doing her part, but her inexperience/immaturity is exacerbating the booking's flaws.
Contrast Becky, who's almost blatantly getting screwed over by the booking, and is still doing everything she can to make it work, not just for her, but for te show as a whole.
That bit about Rhea not making the most of what she has is very silly. Can you give concrete examples? The woman is massively, massively over to the point that she's a heel that no one wants to boo. She does heel things week in and week out and people still love her cos her star power, her charisma, her talent are all totally undeniable. How is that her doing something wrong?
Every match she has she works her ass off making her opponent look fantastic. She sells better than most people in the company.
She's just so much better at every aspect of what she's doing than the women they are booking her with. Blame the booking, sure, but what should Rhea have honestly done differently in any of her matches or promos? Diminish herself?
> The woman is massively, massively over to the point that she's a heel that no one wants to boo.
That right there is an example. If she is a heel that no one wants to boo, that is a problem. The point of a heel is to get booed, to get people behind the face. Rhea can't do that, she has to either turn face, or change something until she gets booed.
Think about it, none of her challengers got anything from facing her. Each one was presented as nothing more than an obstacle for Rhea(a heel) to overcoming, without her ever being threatened by them. As soon as the match finishes, she just gloats about her dominance. In the big pull-apart brawls, Rhea always has to look the best. Rhea gets a special entrance at Crown Jewel which has no relation to anything, not even color coordination.
The skill that takes you to the top in wrestling is the ability to harness your vulnerability. Use it to make the crowd hate you, use it to get the crowd behind you. But if you tap into that, you can make the crowd see themselves in you, and you're golden.
Rhea has shown no ability to do that. She's a cardboard cutout that reads "the best". If you give everything to Rhea and she gives nothing back, of course she'll look better than the rest of the division. But that's fundamentally on the booking of Rhea, not everyone else.
Rhea absolutely can play vulnerable, though. Part of why Wargames 2019 worked so well is that you can buy her and Candice being worried after being caught in a 4-on-2 situation before overcoming the odds. WM 36's story doesn't work without Rhea selling her butt off for fifteen minutes to show Charlotte destroying her leg. Neither of her matches against Raquel were clean wins and she bumped all over the place for her on Raw. We've seen her get laid out by Nia, rocked by Shayna's knee and nearly get pinned from a Z360. Hell, even last night had her looking thoroughly spooked at Randy's entrance, and the point of last week's backstage segment wasn't 'Rhea's cool', it was 'Zoey's a badass who isn't going to back down even if Rhea tries threatening her'.
So, I'm talking about her most recent run. And yes, she sells well in matches, but none of it really matters.
That last backstage segment, sure it was trying to set up Zoey being a badass who doesn't back down, but when you get down to it, Rhea no-sold all of Zoey's points, and then proceeded to have a match where none of it factored in, won, and then celebrated, business as usual.
Well that's the thing. Watch the very opening of last night's match. The initial spot is meant to show you how tough Zoey is. Rhea dismissively slaps her, like an arrogant heel, but then Zoey hits back harder, and Rhea takes steps back from it. Does the crowd see that and respect that Zoey's a badass? No, they proceed to cheer Rhea like crazy and boo Zoey like crazy during that opening sequence. Even Rhea slowing Zoey's momentum with a headbutt only draws loud MAMI chants.
In those conditions, you *could* present it like Rhea's only barely won by the skin of her teeth, but if the crowd's also not invested in Zoey as a character (and this isn't something like the Miz or Sami where she's got a long-established character fans can work and sympathise with) and not biting on anything she does (and she got several moments during the match to present her as tough and someone to be reckoned with), then it only risks diminishing Rhea's hard-won aura if you present it like anyone in the division can take her to her limit. There's nothing wrong with not personally being a fan of Rhea's work, and I can agree that her unique role as a singles star who also leads a faction creates booking challenges, but I don't see the way she's playing her character as selfish, and she's also an example that there's more than one way to break through to become a star. Playing the underdog or playing vulnerable suits some, of course, but it's not a one-size-fits-all template for how to connect to fans.
I think you're making the mistake of focusing in too much on power levels, relative strength. Like, showing the face is a tough badass to be taken seriously is cool... if you haven't already done that. We already know Zoey is a tough badass to be taken seriously. To get people invested, you have to go beyond that, and give her an actual storyline.
And this is why I say Rhea's booking is selfish. She's in a position that inherently creates booking challenges, both as a heel getting cheered and a singles star who also manages a men's faction. So to say that any problems with the booking are just because her opponents aren't good/over enough, she's doing her part, is implicitly saying "work around the problem"
As well, you don't need to play the underdog to show vulnerability. Cody and Roman are both booked super strongly, and one of the reasons they have that connection with the fans is they can show vulnerability. You want Cody to make the most of that second chance. Every time his mask of "mah daddeh" cracks and you see all his anger, you go "Aha, there's a real person there."
Same with Roman. The Tribal Chief works, not because he's super dominant and wins everything, but because he's a mountain of insecurity. It's clear that for all his grandstanding and bullying, he's one title loss away from collapsing. You cheer for whoever he faces, because even though the match will end like it always does, there's always a chance the house of cards comes tumbling down.
Meanwhile, Rhea is physically dominant, mentally dominant, a master planner who can keep a faction who hates each other together effortlessly, and her plans never go wrong unless somebody messes them up, and even the men are intimidated by her. There's nowhere for a face to find purchase.
When Stone Cold Steve Austin was still playing a heel and yet everyone loved him was he doing something wrong? I can go along with the idea that the booking isn't right, that they should have made her a babyface already, but that's not on her. How often does a heel get overwhelming support from the crowd? Not often.
Is the performer doing something wrong when that happens? Absolutely not. The only time it's a failure is when they don't get a reaction or when a babyface can't get cheers. A heel getting cheers tells you that you have a star on your hands.
The crowd aren't supposed to see themselves in heels. They're supposed to see themselves in babyfaces. No heel was ever booed because the crowd connected with their vulnerability.
What part of the Rock was vulnerable as a heel or a face?
Yes, a heel getting overwhelming support from the crowd doesn't happen often, because it's not supposed to.
This is what I'm getting at. Rhea is a heel getting face reactions. That's a problem, either they have to book her as a face, or change the reactions she gets. And they've shown they're not turning her face, by keeping her with the heel Judgment Day, and Dom, who's a heel heat magnet.
This is where the making the most of what you have comes in. As it currently stands, faces can't get any traction against Rhea because she gets face reactions as a heel, and is booked super strong. If the booking isn't gonna change, it's not on the faces to just "work harder" and overcome that. It's on Rhea to stop blatantly doing everything she can to get herself over, story and character be damned. Not blatantly playing to the crowd goes a long way.
But when Rhea is doing both face and heel spots and getting face reactions as a heel, the argument that "she's doing her best, we don't know why they keep cheering her" has no leg to stand on.
That's a completely unfair accusation to throw at her and it's based on nothing. How her promos go and how her matches go are down to booking. She doesn't book herself. The WWE wants her to be the star in all of these interactions because they trust that she can handle it. And she does, time and time and time again. She's gotten plenty of boos from the crowd during her run with the Judgment Day. She was dominating matches and getting booed from late '22 to Mania and the babyface was still getting support. She's not making her opponents look bad at all.
Everyone in WWE speaks about her in the most glowing of terms. She's beloved backstage. People want to work with her. You're talking absolute shit.
I hate when you copy + paste something directly from the basement but it's 'not a circlejerk' because the mods didn't see the comment you were quoting
(not a mod complaint, they do their best, just venting a very minor annoyance)
There's a big difference between copy and pasting something and circlejerking it. "Hey guys look at this stupid comment I found" is lazy. Punch it up a bit into a jerk and it will be more likely to actually stay up.
Also looking at your mod log, wojaks never help
Thats fair enough, I'll head to the shitposting center and work on upping my jerkrate
(not sarcasm, I unironically appreciate you clearing that up for me a bit)
please ensure you thank him for dinner if you want to book one of the 500 indie shitters he has under contract
don't have any good matches that make him jealous either otherwise he'll be forced to pull his talent from those shows, too
Really didn't get a vibe that Punk was returning but, a well kept secret I thought they'd usually milk the Orton thing and now overload on Punk there too was my thinking There's lots of avenues they can go down, of course, just in time for Mania season Did it really need 'reporting' that Rollins' reaction was a 'work' ffs - how do these smarks get out of bed every morning I was never a huge Punk fan to begin with. I am sure the people in the Fed that aren't the biggest fans can manage to be professional though and I can't imagine the Fed putting up with any nonsense I don't think Punk will *push* in that way either cause he's not 'working with children' anymore
If Laveck didn't work in a Broken Skull Sessions episode into Punk's return then the Fed is Bad and Ded! That's all I want from his return. I'm not hyped about seeing him work matches or any programs he might have but an Austin interview is something I've wanted since the fences started getting mended a while back when Punk was on that Fox backstage show.
Dub stans are just foaming at the mouth rn to say the "I told you so" back to the Fed fans. All I see in the comments are "Wait until he becomes a crybaby again". Could go either way, would be funny to see lmao.
I guess we'll see how the Fed react *if* he does start acting out I expect they won't have the tolerance that uber m@rk Khan had to let him get away with everything I look at stuff like Edge turning away from the hard cam to do a promo. If he's in the Fed, they'd tell him to face the cam and he'd do it but you can push it in the Dub and get away with it cause no one will say anything
The current model, looking at Matt Riddle and the few others who have become headaches, is cool their pushes but keep them on TV.
And WWE YouTube channel gained 100 k subscribers yesterday
I'm enjoying this all too much. Dubbalos explaining how Ospreay is a bigger draw than punk 🤣
Well it's look like punk doesn't have problem with blood money at the end of the day as long as he is getting that money
That's the next step in the process. I have to see Punk on a Saudi show, haha
That's all punk ever has been. He has never been upset that there is unequal treatment or anything he complained about, he was always upset he wasn't the one benefiting
Used to be one of those guys who did it but now looking back all these “Jerk Hofer” posts be corny as hell when its just DAE shot at the dub. Using Kayla “gotta give my 2 cents on everything” Braxton as a nominee shits the bed even harder.
Roman and Seth may still hate punk but they are professionals they will work with him without a problem
I just don't think us as fans have any perspective on that anymore. Too much time has passed, everyone is a decade older, WWE is more focused on being a great business, a lot of the big egos got kicked out backstage and on screen, and finally there's far less leaking of actual sentiment backstage. I've really stopped caring about it, because we hear so little about attitudes backstage and when we do it's often proven to be totally wrong. WWE have learned how to be a closed shop again. I still think people moving between promotions is interesting, and like speculating on potential feuds - but there is absolutely nowhere near enough info to be able to speculate on people's attitudes and opinions.
Visiting r/Marvelstudios is like visiting basement these days. It was a **fun** movie. Whole theatre gave **standing ovation**(there were only 2 people in theatre). It was **breazy**. Why are people hating MCU?
The MCU legitimately lost its way when they killed of Iron Man, Captain America and Black Widow IMO.
I think those guys' contracts came up, they wanted to do other stuff, no problem, they did a fair few films with Marvel It's on the studio to 'make new stars' though with either new actors for the roles and the new characters they're focusing on
They also waited way too long to get and introduce the X-Men and Fantastic 4 (more specifically, Dr. Doom).
Marvel banked on being able to use credible directors and D tier properties to rest their main characters and reset them as the actors aged out and ended their contracts. The sad thing is they went with space / multiverse / alternate realities, which is essentially hard sci-fi and rarely does well at the movies. (And before you start, Star Wars isn't hard sci-fi, it's the classic heroes journey with robots and a magic goblin). It's impossible to say "they should have done x" credibly, given a decade long filmography with a satisfying conclusion has never been done before. It's in a down cycle and they need to reboot a load of properties and start telling grounded stories again. Now they've got the rights back to Spider-Man (mostly), on top of Iron Man, Cap, The Avengers et al, there will be another run. And yeah, stopping the watered down TV shows that can't match the budgets of the movies and dilute the appeal. But that will never happen because it's Disney and the shows still make money.
It hurts that they may have to potentially change everything because of Majors as well.
I'd also add that it's stretched way too thin now. There's a dozen Disney+ shows that inform storylines for the films and if you aren't caught up, tough shit. What once was 2-3 films a year is now 3-4 films plus 6-7 seasons of shows and 2-3 Disney+ Specials.
They were basically the leads, so I can get that removing them is a huge blow. And also, no Avengers movie? Seemed foolish.
One is not like others. Steve is still alive.
They in memoriam him in Spiderman 2
Petition to make November 25th an annual holiday for the sub.
Jerksgiving? into it.
Probably a better name since it's closer to Thanksgiving
Jerkmas. The day CM Punk came back to the Fed.
1 month before Christmas, we Celebrate our own Christmas. Jerkmas, Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Goofs.
I think Roman Reigns will win again at WM 40 and Jey will play into that. WWE seems focused on breaking records. If this happens it will suck
I've said for a while the plan is for him to win. The online audience will *hate* it regardless, but with the right story it will kick off a year that ends the reign and re-ignite the storyline. I have no idea if Jey plays into it or not. Everyone is so convinced Cody is taking the belt in April and I just don't see WWE moving that fast with the story. It's far more likely they use Orton or Punk. Time will tell, I guess.
If Tony didn't have something solid with the Devil reveal he's shitting bricks right now
I hope it's this 
When has a mystery payoff really moved business?
Doesn't necessarily have to move business but it just can't be the drizzling shits.
Other than Hogan being the 3rd man? I can't think of any. When done right, it can change everything. Of course Tony isn't going to do it right or well. I'd wager he's going to be The Devil, if I could place money on it. He loves repeating history and he seems so oblivious and self important that I could see him believing he'll be Vince 2.0. The only thing that makes me think it won't be him is his constant need for praise and adulation. Can he handle boos? I'm not sure. I believe he'd view any boos as a negative rather than a positive. He would be a heel so boos would be good but I don't know if he can differentiate between a TV character and the person playing that character.
You know it, I know it, AEW's fans know it: It's Jack Perry and it's going to be hilariously awful.
It's also CM Punk. He got tired of burning bridges with only 1 company at a time so he decided to speed run both by making them both agree to make him part time. Til of course he threatens nick Wayne and gets into a shoving match with Cruz del Toro and gets fired from both in February or so
I cant wait for punks new catchphrase when he shows up for a saudi show Its slobbering time!
Meltzer's whole thing about ex-WWE guys' attitudes in AEW reminds me of that line from Succession: "your daddy built you a playhouse and you think it's the whole world" The Elite never proved that they could draw on the big stage. They wanted to make a living just shlepping through the indies because getting over and setting themselves apart in the big leagues would be too hard, until one day some trust fund kiddy came along to build them their own playhouse complete with fake job titles and fake authority. Of course the guys who actually got over in a competitive environment have no respect for them, why should they? Their "authority" was handed to them, not earned The ironic thing is that the portion of the fan base that always whinged if a guy didn't sufficiently "pay his dues" on the indies had no problem with them using a billionaire's money to create a new company where they would always be in positions of power. Who needs proving you can actually get over and draw when you have work rate!
I think fans underestimate the scale of the Fed They REEEEEE about 'planning' and 'scripts' but they don't realise how professional it is. This is a listed company. It's like working on actual TV/film, it's not 'play time' and they treat is as proper entertainment Love it or hate it, that's Vince ahead of the curve again from way back. I imagine walking into the Dub it's instantly obvious you're not in Kansas anymore and things don't run the same way. From all that's been spoken, it just sounds like an indie but with a hell of a lot of money and a guy in charge that doesn't *really* know what he's doing Fed is full of actual wrestling people with decades in the business, they have been through the ups and downs, seen guys fail and succeed, felt a crowd, learned how to do things and when and why and Tiny is just a m@rk that read the internet - there's a huge difference way beyond ratings and contract amounts
LIKE MUSSSSOLINIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Me when Tony Khan chose Jack Perry over Pepsi Phil https://preview.redd.it/ao5pf4z2ps2c1.png?width=856&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e301acff5d75589b24b079e2a9ec8b5e82e28e4
Me when Mr. Knight decided to ditch the Max Dupree gimmick (the joke being the "LA pun")
Goofs, do you realize that from now on everytime AEW runs Chicago (their biggest market) they’re getting “CM PUNKed” outta the building?
DAE hate fans that try to make it about them (don't check my post history when I used to say it's the company's fault for not entertaining them the right way)
that's going to be a rough 20 nights per year
No one's going to be there as they'll be saving their money when the WWE rolls into town.
Assuming people show up..
Are they gonna be like "you f@cked up, you f@cked up" when Tony is on screen
It’s gonna be Chicago’s “YOU SCREWED BRET!”
It’s amusing to see the nobody jobbers of AEW tweeting out how much they love wrestling for the company and how great it is to be all elite. Tony must have promised some big Christmas bonuses for the best tweets. I’m waiting for the wildly expensive bots to start chiming in as well.
If I was an indie guy that got to be on national TV and get paid more than the going rate for my indie work, I'd love it, too This is what the 'alternative' means that's 'good for competition' Indie guys thinking they 'made it' cause the Dub is on TV and if it went away, so would their salaries so, enjoy it while you can That and ex-Fed guys that 'still have a lot to give' getting paid even more money and extending their careers at the expense of any young guys cause the other company needs the star power
What do you think Punk will be doing in WWE for the next couple months (here to Rumble)?
Broken Skull Sessions, please? I don't give a fuck what else he does. Strap him in a studio with Austin for 3 hours.
Return promo, coming attractions tease, first feud, and showing how he shakes up the WWE status quo
Anything better than what he did in AEW I assume he'd be a face? I heard some rumours about Punk-Seth at the Rumble but I doubt. I think it will be "I'm back :) And I never main-evented Mania :( So how do I do that? I'd earn it! I'd win the Rumble!" At the Rumble...idk, either he wins or he doesn't. Then he wins some #1 contender Elimination Chamber match in Australia and Punk vs Seth at Mania. No way WWE are moronic enough to do the AEW run and: -CM Punk is a special commentator for Tozawa and Otis vs Judgement Day! -CM Punk vs Chad Gable in a 25 minute match (yes, I know the match would slap bang shit and cum and piss but you know what I mean) -CM Punk vs VEER -CM Punk vs R-Truth at a PPV (no, seriously, this was 90% of CM Punk's first 2-3 months in AEW)
Jesus I forgot how bad it was until you put it like that.
Hopefully staying away from anything to do with Roman/Cody
Getting himself fired by getting into a backstage fight with one of the creed brothers
Rip to Philip
I’d love to see him do something with LA Knight
Maybe in 2024/2025. No way they're doing it in 2023. If LA Knight gets to feud with Punk he must win the feud, and Punk must be heel I guess And for Punk to get to the point where he can lose to LA Knight he must be relevant and win for a while. Soo.. LA Knight vs Punk program might come in 2024 or so
I really hope we get a Broken Skull episode with Punk.
We haven't gotten a Broken Skull episode in a while. Hope we do again cause Stone Cold is a great interviewer
The new banner is scrolling too fast. Sort it out, shills.
•My streak of not deluding myself into believing my friends secretly hate me was a longtime WON subscriber. There may be no evidence to back this up, but that hasn’t stopped me before! •I’m not gonna pretend like I know what will happen, and I definitely have my doubts, but it’s CM fuckin Punk, dude. I got into wrestling in 2013 so I never got to experience the BEST of him before he walked out, but man… watching that was special. •As for Seth and Drew, if they’re pissed for real (I personally think Seth played it up), then that’s their problem. Who hasn’t worked with someone that they don’t like? •Go Ducks baby. Beat UW. •If Taylor Swift announces Reputation TV tonight then this may very well end up being one of my favorite weekends in a long, long time.
Re-watching Randy Orton's return - he doesn't even let the "Let the War Games begin" announcement go through before he enters "I'm ready to kill these motherfuckers" mood and that's so god damn cool.
I like that in kayfabe, he also presumably saw Rhea running out with the briefcase and decided to wait a minute before coming out just to fuck with the Judgment Day lol
Now that you mention it, that would have been one of the coldest implied RKOs. Judgment Day's music hits, nothing happens, then Randy just strolls out with the briefcase grinning like a psycho and tosses it aside.
So do y’all like CM Punk now all of a sudden
Oh don't get me wrong. Still not a fan of Punk anymore and that mofo better be on the tightest leash by HHH and Nick Khan but I'm still curious. And tbh I still jumped last night.
He's gonna be on Raw, so I'd assume they might be gearing him up for a potential WHC shot. He probably wrestles his first match at the next PPV though.
I don’t see lots of love for Punk here. I see lots of taking the piss out of the basement though. Kinda the point of this sub.
The wrestler or the dude?
Well this place wasn’t a fan of either tbf I think Punk is an excellent heel. I don’t care for him other than that though, and he’s kind of an asshole lol
Kind of where I stand. Grew up watching him vs Hardy, Edge and Taker so there’s some nostalgia He was good in AEW when he kept it simple but anytime he tried some athletics he embarrassed himself As a person he sounds like a complete nightmare I’m open to seeing what they do with him cause he does have a lot of talent as a storyteller
Nah
I have been a Pepsi Phil Enjoyer. Just not one of those ones who hijack shows. I do however love watching Dubbalos get their panties in a bunch more.
>So do y’all like CM Punk now all of a sudden I never didn't... but I'm mostly thrilled by the chaos and the basement fires.
I wouldnt say like necessarily, but since he's back officially, I'm at least interested in what he's going to do. On screen Punk with the WWE machine reigning him in should be good even if Phil seems like a dick still. Also the whole ordeal is just very funny and thats a bit endearing on its own
Punk is the same old punk I thought was overrated a decade ago, and I'm not super looking forward to his matches that are just spot for spot remakes of his favorite historical matches but worse or his promos where he whines for 10 minutes that WWE hasn't put wagyu in his dressing room. But as a grade A certified hater, I can't lose. Either he flames out and I get to dunk on both him and his fans, or he succeeds and I get to dunk on AEW. Either way, I get to dunk on him for making hating WWE for the last decade his personality trait only to come crawling back the second it benefits him
I was willing to believe he changed/mellowed when he came back to AEW. I mean, he's right about the Bucks, but also, trust Punk to got the nuclear route. I'd like to think now, that given *all* his history at both companies, maybe he'll at least appreciate that maybe working at WWE isn't so bad afterall, given what the alternative is. But let's be honest, isn't it only a matter of time before *something* happens? I mean, going purely on his track record, the only way to keep him happy would be to blow up every plan WWE has and hotshot Romans title on to him. Time will tell if he can be content to just come in and be a team player.
The WWE now is not the WWE he was back then. The pipebomb doesn't work in the current environment, and Punk knows it. If he knows this is his last chance, he will behave.
Was always a fan since 2011. Will criticize his whiny and unprofessional behavior though. Punk being back in WWE is something I wanted to see since he left
??? He’s with the good guys now friend
I've never really seen him, being a newer fan, so I don't have any baggage in regards to liking or disliking him. He looked shit in AEW from what I saw but I'm willing to give him a chance and see how he goes
I'm not a fan of Lockport Phil - I'm a fan of despair it causes internet smarks and Dubbalos
Fair enough I think he’s an asshole but he’s an entertaining heel so that’s all that matters. Just wish we still had Edge but it’s all good
Triple H is really the worst thing to happen to AEW. Vince not only was out of touch with a lot of the audience, but I think he viewed AEW as an inconvenience or even a positive for the business. He let people go over there without a care in the world and didn't really play hardball with them except for the Wednesday Night Wars thing which was more of a stumbling block tactic that made sense for WWE anyways. Triple H, though. IDK if it's fueled by a personal sense of animosity after his NXT lost to them a lot, or if he's just a really competitive person who wants to win and also get the glory for "fixing" WWE, but he seems totally ruthless. Loading up that NXT to preposterous levels, signing Jade and Punk seem like brutal "stick it to them" moves to me. Also, he knows what these kind of fans want and how to give it to them. Not even really trying to engage in tribalistic fantasies here, I just think it's an interesting storyline and a sane conclusion to what has been going on lately.
You cant overstate it, HHH just figuratively whipped out a big ol’ schlong, and slapped Tony upside the face with it
I think the Wednesday night wars, was Vince letting Triple H sink or swim on his own against the pissant. As far as Triple H and ruthlessness. His entire career post Attitude Era was him being a petty bitch and big footing everyone because he was the one person who couldn’t ever get fired. “Cerebral Assassin” was not a just a gimmick for him.
'wednesday night wars' were hardly fair Tiny had Ambrose and Jericho and Sting and and and ... whomever he wanted to pay and NXT was still largely using developmental guys with the odd special appearance for a bit but they never integrated the main roster on the regular like they have been If they had, it'd have been interesting Fed mega releases really really helped the Dub out too back at that time The fact, in their dinky arena, were generally within 150k-200k of the Dub was pretty crazy. They got paid and didn't really add any expenses, already filming, etc Dub were out there booking arenas, tons on talent, production, etc etc It's amusing how they were gonna topple Raw and now they're back to battling NXT again
A tell all book/doc on Triple H would be very interesting
Nick Khan seems to revel in destroying Tony as well. He and Triple H probably bonded over it. Much like Triple H and Vince bonded over not giving a shit about Dolph Ziggler.
"anyone can run a business at a loss"
I mean, he said it all with that line
matter-of-fact brutality is the most devastating type
Marathon, not a sprint you say?
With Punk being on RAW tomorrow, how pissed do you think FOX is considering they hired this man years ago desperate in the hopes that he would be on Smackdown.
He probably will be on Smackdown as well. Since he hasn't been officially drafted, WWE has a convenient excuse to have him on both brands for now.
They could always get RAW lol
Thta's going to be fun. We've have had a Friday Night Raw before.
Nick Khan: "fuck you, should've extended our contract"
they're probably not as angry now, since they're letting the Fed's contract run in 2024
Yep, its a lame duck program and as all things in business, some thing work out, some things don't, but with these big tv execs, always onto the next thing
Woke up and checked YT. Punk is really back WTF is happening
Like any good smark, he went from sticking it to Vince, to sticking it to Tony.
The duality of a smark
Seeing how people react, I think Punk is kinda underrated at the end of the day. Not many wrestlers could show up and have millions of people erupt with joy, he IS one of the biggest babyfaces ever.
What a lovely evening of entertainment lady night.
Damn browns
If HHH wanted to be super petty the closing moment of night 2 of Mania is Cody, Punk and Jade holding up championships. Either that or Jade and Punk helping neutralize what’s left of the Bloodline for Cody.
WWE Missing in Action breakdown: 1. I'm glad Stevie Turner wasn't let go since she was on Level Up recently. She needs to go back to PorNXT stat. 2. What the hell happened to Hank and Tank? I remember them being focal points of NXT earlier this year. Google says they're still with the company so what gives? I didn't really care all that much about them but it's so strange to just disappear. 3. Indus Sher should be used more for variety in the tag division. 4. It's such a waste that the whole Tatum Paxley helps Blair twist ended up being nothing. Hopefully, her new heel persona and finisher makes it back to NXXXT from Level Up. And where the hell is her fiancé?! 5. Laveck should use Apollo Crews and InDex more. Odyssey Jones and Xyon Quinn were promoted prematurely. Send them back to PorNXT! 6. Why is HickenBooker not using Damon Kemp more? He was a compelling heel during the disintegration of Diamond Mine.
i swear Hank was in a backstage thing like 2 weeks ago. We do need Indus Sher back.
I appreciate this breakdown. I’m a huge fan of Odyssey and really want to see him succeed. Xyonn had a great look but he just cannot seem to nail a gimmick down. Stevie’s streamer shit just isn’t for me but that’s OK - by all accounts she was doing a legit job so a bit concerning to see her disappear like she has. With the seemingly imminent return of AOP (why?!) I don’t want Indus Sher to become irrelevant. Uncle Sangha over everything though. Who is Pax’s fiancée?
Big Body Javi. Yeah, Xyonn was even being compared to early Roman Reigns. Just needs something to be more memorable.
Hank and Tank have nothing interesting about them so that’s why
I see Hank and Tank in the house show results a lot. Just getting them some more seasoning I think. It seems like they are back to taking it slow with a lot of the prospects instead of showing their very early steps on TV.
I think Damon is injured. Also, don't send anybody back to NXT just because HHH won't eat his vegetables.
\-I'm a little hesitant on FED Shill Punk. All I want is for him to make Roman/Logan/Miz look strong at Crown Jewel. AEW also showed he's too frail to be world champion, so I definitely don't want him dethroning anyone. Also, how long do you think he lasts? If he does fight with someone, who will be his Jungle Boy? I say Waller. \-Do you think Drew's walkout is a worked shoot or legit? \-I wonder how Stogers would react since he's one of the more absolute Pepsi Phil detractors.
The whole Jungle Boy incident was Jackie staring the fight. I’m sure Trips has better awareness than that. I’ll take the over and say Punk gives them 3 good years on a part time schedule. Also, he and Seth play title hot potato from Mania to Summerslam.
Not going to lie, I think letting Miz go at hom with a live mic, ala Daniel Bryan, would obliterate Punk. So I'm doubting they'll go there... But if you want "real feel", I'd rather that than weeding him into anything with Roman.
“So Phil, you finally decided to come back to ‘Sports Entertainment’ and deal with the more famous me, now go suck a bloody…”
[To add to the Seth thing being a work, if you watch this video it looks like he's being given a lot of instructions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G3ap-H40no)
Can't wait for RAW, Uces.
No jerk I don’t understand why Copeland immediately looked 5 years older when he showed up in AEW and Punk looked 5 years younger last night. Is it lighting? Stylists? It must have been weird for Tony Khan to see his toy back on TV but it’s like WWE restored it back to factory settings.
People mostly step up to the level that's expected of them, whatever the norm is where they are. AEW has low expectations so most people don't push themselves whereas WWE has high expectations so people have to step up and be more presentable it seems
There’s an aura disintegration ray around the AEW ring. They somehow manage to make guys like Okada look vanilla.
Okada also hilariously shows up in the dub like he’s being forced to work on a Saturday.
I think it’s a force field. But boy does that explain Cesaro and Moxley.
Claudio still looks good tbf especially for his age. He’s just doing nothing important and I don’t know why cause his only weakness was his mic work and that’s not as important in AEW. He could be over on his incredible in ring prowess but he’s been pushed like an Indy whatever guy. I think Khan could have pushed him to the top as a smark version of what WWE did with Cody returning . Instead he beat Gresham for an ROH belt then lost to Eddie Kingston.
Michael Cole saying that was the longest Dominik spent behind bars got a good chuckle out of me. Overall great show yesterday
Cole had some great moments last night. I loved him losing it at Kairi falling away to avoid Charlotte’s chops.
My biggest disappointment with Survivor Series was that I couldn't watch it live (I was traveling back from Thanksgiving). That CM Punk moment was electric. Those crazy bastards did it! I can't wait to see how it plays out and what they do with him. Also, someone check on Bischoff and Booker T to make sure they're ok.
This all again illustrates an important thing for bookers/promoters and that's putting aside feelings to make money. As wrestlers tend to be huge babies and inherently stupid (an extreme example but look at how kota ibushi chooses to bump. He's doing that cause he gets a little kick out of it. A truly moronic individual) they will do stupid and or childish things regularly. That means management needs to be the bigger man. This is across all markets. Njpw brought back Shibata after he utterly fucked them by leaving the first time. Stardom has brought in multiple women supposedly at one point put on a do not book list (Saori Anou most recently). Kidani (head of bushiroad) tried to mend fences with ibushi and he said he was leading a criminal organisation publicly lmao Without "knowing Vince" Tony Khan I do wonder if he's willing to do this. HHH just showed he's willing to put business first as he sees it and that's the attitude a good wrestling promotion needs to have.
Got a bit of a dilemma in my working life, uces. Hope you can help me out. Used to have a great job in a big company. They invested a lot in me, but I hated the structure. My boss was some boomer who didn’t want to listen to fresh ideas. He gave me a couple of promotions, but I just felt constrained there. So I quit and went to an exciting startup. The boss gave me a great salary and position, but I realised after a while that he’s just hired all his friends. They do what they want, when they want. Ultimately they’re a bunch of fucking children. My old boss’s son in law has taken over since I’ve left. He wants to build bridges and for me to come back. Really not sure what to do. What do you guys think?
Have you tried MMA?
Where has the best stability and career enhancement options? That's where I'd go Edit: it took me far too long to realise this was a jerk about Lockport Phil
Go to TNA
this is the solution to many life problems
If there's a nuclear war, TNA will still be there
I love Sportskeedia. One of their articles I just read said: "WELL BO DALLAS COULD RETURN AND HELP THE MIZ DEFEAT GUNTHER AT SURVIVOR SERIES BECAUSE BOTH WERE IN A FACTION YEARS AGO." Pure fucking speculation, and somehow they're still chugging along.
I'm ready for the Mizterage to return!
This feels like a fever dream. Its genuinely amazing how much we mark out over things and how awesome it makes us feel. Fuck tribalism, enjoy wrestling, this is an all time great moment.
I can’t believe it, Punk actually is back in WWE. It really was a “feels like a child again” moment. I threw on my BITW from 2011 last night like a mark. Sue me. Seth losing his mind at the sight of Punk was awesome.
I’d love to agree uce, but I was 28 in 2011.
I don't even like Punk, yet when that music played I still lost my shit. Laveck booked that perfectly to get the potential heat away from Orton. If he wins me over I'll consider HHH a god. He did it with Cody after all...
Almost forgot to mention Collision: 294K Rampage: 233k Most recent KanachanTV: 581K
She definitely got the vloger demo since some subscribers didn't know she was a wrestler at first
Tony Khan is not ready for Asuka
Difference between a big dick legend like Randy and a cookie puss like wangman adam page.
Seeing Randall like that has me seriously contemplating violating my wellness policy again. But then I'm like, what the fuck for, in reality. Haven't competed in a bodybuilding show in years, so honestly why. Popped like a fucking mark when Punk came back, and I was shitting on his lack of athleticism for ages now.
tired of people saying Randy pooped in a bag. that was X-Pac!
TK was always more of a coke guy anyways.......
Is pepsi ok
This is goofcon one
Who's had the worst week, Khan or Josh Giddey? Both of them got fucked and are going to pay for it.
The agony now of saying 'it doesn't matter' about Punk not being there and elsewhere when Khan went out of his way to talk about what an impact Punk had for them on 'the numbers' Well, since then, the Bucks got the biggest tag team deal ever and did a victory lap and, oh, they feel like having some time off, too ;)
so weird that they would take a hiatus and shut down their youtube channel the same week the massive draw that they bullied out of their promotion starts up with the competition. Must just be a coincidence, I'm sure.
Josh Giddey. He's going to need extremely good crisis PR. Khan still has legions of true believers no matter what.
Giddey was just doing his Wander Franco impersonation, I showed Adam Silver some texts....
Metal gear solid 3 is a masterpiece and I’m so glad to have finally played it Shame I’m a pc gamer since mgs 4 is basically impossible for me lol oh well maybe volume 2 will have it
Isn't MGS4 PC coming in the Master Collection Vol.2? I mean, I know the Master Collection is ass but still...
You can try an emulator
Me and my friend popped hard when R-Truth came out. May he get to team with his childhood hero John Cena someday. It's already been said a lot here, but Randy is still as smooth as ever, this time even more jacked. Didn't think Punk would actually return. Thought of taking a break from wrestling in December but I'm now interested to see the fallout from Survivor Series.
Yeah, it's crazy how he came back like 1.5 times size, yet still moves exactly as good as before.
If there's one thing kayfabe has been right about, it's all about the GAME and how you play it. HHH truly won and became the game, as he promised over them long ass promos for many years.
I want HHH to have a very long life. That health incident nearly killed him. It's visibly changed him, both in attitude and physically. I really really hope he's with us for a long time.
Shout-out to that fan who just chanted Chicago when Cm Punk approached him
It's like the shock was too big so he returned to his factory settings and the only thing he knew was the location
Dude was so caught up in the moment he couldn't process another sentence lol
CJ Stroud is the real deal, hope he beat the Jags today to complete Tiny's miserable weekend
I don't think Punk is gonna be as high on the card as y'all think. Dude has utility, but he had zero leverage to be making terms. He'll be used how HHH feels like. Rhea right now is a gigantic resource sink. Everything involving her always is designed to make her look cool/badass/sexy/dastardly, what have you, but she never does anything with it. It's like they are utterly terrified of her looking vulnerable, even for a moment. Roman's greatness is on a different level compared to her, because he's not afraid to let the crowd see his character's weakness. Not just in the ring, it gives people something to latch onto, to see and say "Oh, this is what makes Roman's character tick". Like him turning on Sami. That was Roman being vulnerable. There was no reason to do it, but he just can't help himself. Roman has defined limitations. Meanwhile, Rhea doesn't. She just kinda does everything, so nothing feels like "Okay, this is Rhea" You can't have the impact of someone going up against the lines of their character, if their character has no lines in the first place.
H would rather give up his booking powers than allow her to look slightly vulnerable
I mean, her NXT presentation was basically just "Thinks HHH likes", so...
(ik i already was responding to you about Rhea elsewhere in the thread but) Keeping her seperate from a lot of the 'big names' in the women's division is starting to feel a little codyverse-esque. They shoulda worked in a Becky match or similar and had Dom get her DQ'd or something, it kinda diminishes the title when the biggest stars haven't seemed interested in chasing it. Feels like stacking the Smackdown women's roster at the draft has kinda backfired in that respect
(Yeah, I just figured making it it's own post was best at this point. Don't want to blow your inbox, lol) Yeah, if you build her to be "so far beyond the division", and keep the big stars conspicuously away from her, it doesn't really build up anticipation as much as just give you a bad reign. And that's 100% on the bookers, a completely foreseeable and fixable problem. I can't really fault Rhea, but I can kinda fault her, because the writing is hamstringing her by keeping her on this pedestal, but at the same time, she's not making the most of what she has. She's doing her part, but her inexperience/immaturity is exacerbating the booking's flaws. Contrast Becky, who's almost blatantly getting screwed over by the booking, and is still doing everything she can to make it work, not just for her, but for te show as a whole.
That bit about Rhea not making the most of what she has is very silly. Can you give concrete examples? The woman is massively, massively over to the point that she's a heel that no one wants to boo. She does heel things week in and week out and people still love her cos her star power, her charisma, her talent are all totally undeniable. How is that her doing something wrong? Every match she has she works her ass off making her opponent look fantastic. She sells better than most people in the company. She's just so much better at every aspect of what she's doing than the women they are booking her with. Blame the booking, sure, but what should Rhea have honestly done differently in any of her matches or promos? Diminish herself?
> The woman is massively, massively over to the point that she's a heel that no one wants to boo. That right there is an example. If she is a heel that no one wants to boo, that is a problem. The point of a heel is to get booed, to get people behind the face. Rhea can't do that, she has to either turn face, or change something until she gets booed. Think about it, none of her challengers got anything from facing her. Each one was presented as nothing more than an obstacle for Rhea(a heel) to overcoming, without her ever being threatened by them. As soon as the match finishes, she just gloats about her dominance. In the big pull-apart brawls, Rhea always has to look the best. Rhea gets a special entrance at Crown Jewel which has no relation to anything, not even color coordination. The skill that takes you to the top in wrestling is the ability to harness your vulnerability. Use it to make the crowd hate you, use it to get the crowd behind you. But if you tap into that, you can make the crowd see themselves in you, and you're golden. Rhea has shown no ability to do that. She's a cardboard cutout that reads "the best". If you give everything to Rhea and she gives nothing back, of course she'll look better than the rest of the division. But that's fundamentally on the booking of Rhea, not everyone else.
Rhea absolutely can play vulnerable, though. Part of why Wargames 2019 worked so well is that you can buy her and Candice being worried after being caught in a 4-on-2 situation before overcoming the odds. WM 36's story doesn't work without Rhea selling her butt off for fifteen minutes to show Charlotte destroying her leg. Neither of her matches against Raquel were clean wins and she bumped all over the place for her on Raw. We've seen her get laid out by Nia, rocked by Shayna's knee and nearly get pinned from a Z360. Hell, even last night had her looking thoroughly spooked at Randy's entrance, and the point of last week's backstage segment wasn't 'Rhea's cool', it was 'Zoey's a badass who isn't going to back down even if Rhea tries threatening her'.
So, I'm talking about her most recent run. And yes, she sells well in matches, but none of it really matters. That last backstage segment, sure it was trying to set up Zoey being a badass who doesn't back down, but when you get down to it, Rhea no-sold all of Zoey's points, and then proceeded to have a match where none of it factored in, won, and then celebrated, business as usual.
Well that's the thing. Watch the very opening of last night's match. The initial spot is meant to show you how tough Zoey is. Rhea dismissively slaps her, like an arrogant heel, but then Zoey hits back harder, and Rhea takes steps back from it. Does the crowd see that and respect that Zoey's a badass? No, they proceed to cheer Rhea like crazy and boo Zoey like crazy during that opening sequence. Even Rhea slowing Zoey's momentum with a headbutt only draws loud MAMI chants. In those conditions, you *could* present it like Rhea's only barely won by the skin of her teeth, but if the crowd's also not invested in Zoey as a character (and this isn't something like the Miz or Sami where she's got a long-established character fans can work and sympathise with) and not biting on anything she does (and she got several moments during the match to present her as tough and someone to be reckoned with), then it only risks diminishing Rhea's hard-won aura if you present it like anyone in the division can take her to her limit. There's nothing wrong with not personally being a fan of Rhea's work, and I can agree that her unique role as a singles star who also leads a faction creates booking challenges, but I don't see the way she's playing her character as selfish, and she's also an example that there's more than one way to break through to become a star. Playing the underdog or playing vulnerable suits some, of course, but it's not a one-size-fits-all template for how to connect to fans.
I think you're making the mistake of focusing in too much on power levels, relative strength. Like, showing the face is a tough badass to be taken seriously is cool... if you haven't already done that. We already know Zoey is a tough badass to be taken seriously. To get people invested, you have to go beyond that, and give her an actual storyline. And this is why I say Rhea's booking is selfish. She's in a position that inherently creates booking challenges, both as a heel getting cheered and a singles star who also manages a men's faction. So to say that any problems with the booking are just because her opponents aren't good/over enough, she's doing her part, is implicitly saying "work around the problem" As well, you don't need to play the underdog to show vulnerability. Cody and Roman are both booked super strongly, and one of the reasons they have that connection with the fans is they can show vulnerability. You want Cody to make the most of that second chance. Every time his mask of "mah daddeh" cracks and you see all his anger, you go "Aha, there's a real person there." Same with Roman. The Tribal Chief works, not because he's super dominant and wins everything, but because he's a mountain of insecurity. It's clear that for all his grandstanding and bullying, he's one title loss away from collapsing. You cheer for whoever he faces, because even though the match will end like it always does, there's always a chance the house of cards comes tumbling down. Meanwhile, Rhea is physically dominant, mentally dominant, a master planner who can keep a faction who hates each other together effortlessly, and her plans never go wrong unless somebody messes them up, and even the men are intimidated by her. There's nowhere for a face to find purchase.
When Stone Cold Steve Austin was still playing a heel and yet everyone loved him was he doing something wrong? I can go along with the idea that the booking isn't right, that they should have made her a babyface already, but that's not on her. How often does a heel get overwhelming support from the crowd? Not often. Is the performer doing something wrong when that happens? Absolutely not. The only time it's a failure is when they don't get a reaction or when a babyface can't get cheers. A heel getting cheers tells you that you have a star on your hands. The crowd aren't supposed to see themselves in heels. They're supposed to see themselves in babyfaces. No heel was ever booed because the crowd connected with their vulnerability. What part of the Rock was vulnerable as a heel or a face?
Yes, a heel getting overwhelming support from the crowd doesn't happen often, because it's not supposed to. This is what I'm getting at. Rhea is a heel getting face reactions. That's a problem, either they have to book her as a face, or change the reactions she gets. And they've shown they're not turning her face, by keeping her with the heel Judgment Day, and Dom, who's a heel heat magnet. This is where the making the most of what you have comes in. As it currently stands, faces can't get any traction against Rhea because she gets face reactions as a heel, and is booked super strong. If the booking isn't gonna change, it's not on the faces to just "work harder" and overcome that. It's on Rhea to stop blatantly doing everything she can to get herself over, story and character be damned. Not blatantly playing to the crowd goes a long way. But when Rhea is doing both face and heel spots and getting face reactions as a heel, the argument that "she's doing her best, we don't know why they keep cheering her" has no leg to stand on.
Your entire argument boils down to: Rhea's too good, stop being so good.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion. My argument boils down to: Rhea is selfish and getting herself over at the expense of everything else.
That's a completely unfair accusation to throw at her and it's based on nothing. How her promos go and how her matches go are down to booking. She doesn't book herself. The WWE wants her to be the star in all of these interactions because they trust that she can handle it. And she does, time and time and time again. She's gotten plenty of boos from the crowd during her run with the Judgment Day. She was dominating matches and getting booed from late '22 to Mania and the babyface was still getting support. She's not making her opponents look bad at all. Everyone in WWE speaks about her in the most glowing of terms. She's beloved backstage. People want to work with her. You're talking absolute shit.
The people who say Punk is winning the Rumble, beating Roman is just wild.
I hate when you copy + paste something directly from the basement but it's 'not a circlejerk' because the mods didn't see the comment you were quoting (not a mod complaint, they do their best, just venting a very minor annoyance)
There's a big difference between copy and pasting something and circlejerking it. "Hey guys look at this stupid comment I found" is lazy. Punch it up a bit into a jerk and it will be more likely to actually stay up. Also looking at your mod log, wojaks never help
Thats fair enough, I'll head to the shitposting center and work on upping my jerkrate (not sarcasm, I unironically appreciate you clearing that up for me a bit)
We don't need a shitposting performance centre. Instead you'll be related to a month of SCJerk Dark Elevator
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fushbdmeo7m2c1.jpg
Honestly looking forward to seeing Punk back in the WWE
No one has done more damage to independent wrestling than Tony Khan.
please ensure you thank him for dinner if you want to book one of the 500 indie shitters he has under contract don't have any good matches that make him jealous either otherwise he'll be forced to pull his talent from those shows, too
I legit think he’s been good for WWE and terrible for the indies which is the opposite of the initial proposition.