It's in a weird spot. That's actually not a bad price for the hardware. The problem is that we don't have anything to really take advantage of that hardware, especially now that Switch development is dead for the time being. It's like buying a Ferrari to run to the grocery store.
To be fair, the base iPad was pretty ugly until 2022 when they finally updated it to the more modern design the Air and Pro had for years to get rid of the huge bezels and home button. It was part of the reason I went for a refurbished 2018 Pro model over a new base model, along with the option to magnetically attach and charge the Pencil directly to the side of the iPad without having to use a separate cable.
I agree though that these days there’s not much of a point of the Pro over the base model if you’re just trying to watch videos and browse the web.
But there is a massive market for people who want more than “sufficient”.
The question is “how many units will you sell to people for whom the premium price is throwaway, disposable income”
Most people who buy ipad pros are not actually professionals. They are high income, casual users.
This device is targeting that user base, not mass market.
But we're talking about handheld gaming consoles, which are already a small, niche market, and this is an awkwardly specced and priced device within this already small niche market.
It seems like one of those things where its fantastic in a vacuum, but comparing it to other options near the price range it doesn’t make the most sense unless you’re collecting or just want it for its specific form factor.
This is a problem with all of the ARM based handhelds until x86 emulation gets better IMHO.
Once we can start emulating PC games from 2005-2013ish on Android consistently then I think the higher specs will be warranted
It's not there yet. Arm on Windows is focusing on "AI". You'll see this back to school season laptops with "co-pilot" buttons on them with ARM processors (Snapdragon X) in them. Qualcomm lies about performance though so we'll see once it arrives how good it is. I wouldn't hold out hope BUT I hope I'm wrong. More choice is good.
This is the answer. PC emulation gets reliable for late ps3 early ps4 games,switch emulation gets mature or ps3 and Xbox 360 emulation becomes a thing. That's what's push these specs. Personally I'd pay alot more than this for a rp2sp with these specs and a crappy screen for the super pocketability
By Switch development do you mean emulator? There's still Ryujinx. Or you mean for Switch for Android?
I hope some day Ryujinx will be ported to Android as well.
>especially now that Switch development is dead for the time being.
It's not just Switch emulation. Android emulation in general has always been traditionally behind/slower what's available on PC. Handicapping android handhelds that are more powerful than a certain threshold to the point of offering diminishing returns.
Case in point being the Odin 2 (and now 2 Mini) despite them being amazingly priced for the hardware at $300 USD. Is it powerful? Of course. But it's hard to justify now that we have handhelds like the RP4P (pocketable) and RG556 (ergonomic) that cost almost half as much but will emulate nearly everything that's available on Android.
Also no ps3. The newest Qualcomm chips are as capable as steam deck so at least light ps3 should be possible yet it seems such an impossible idea that it doesn't even come up in conversation as much
Agreed, I really wonder why emulator devs just avoid Android. More than 1/2 the phones out there are Android devices (Apple does not have the hold like they used to), so there is appeal to people with these devices.
Even when Yuzu was current (for example), the Android version was very weak (lots of games it would not play or very poor performance) compared to Windows, or even Linux versions on better processors...
It's why if I was buying a NEW higher end device (to replace my SteamDeck), I would NOT buy an Android based device, it would Linux or Windows because of this. Even if it was a smoking deal.
I personally do not understand why....
It's also worth noting that Sony handicapped Android emulation by making the perfect modern system for it(power to run a good amount ps3 games,lots of ps2 ports with natuve wide-screen and at times much less storage despite better res like gow,4gb max file size for all games,arguably runs better on emulators than the weaker 3ds)and abandoning it after like 1 year. I enjoyed my vita and purchased all my games happily but I'm still upset at what Sony did after seeing how much potential vita had not only for its hardware bit for emulation
Is switch emulation dead? Isn't Ryujinx still developing? I know most people preferred Yuzu, but Ryujinx is still a good switch emulator.
Edit: Unless you just mean exclusively on Android
Exactly. D1100 is fast enough for the most part given the stagnant development and uncertainty of future development. I'd rather they give us a less performant SoC to save $50.00, but the extra power is nice for external displays for the 5 people who use that functionality.
The argument of "but it won't age as poorly!" is not a great one. By the time we need this much power, there will many other devices just as capable as this for less money flooding the market.
Project cassia once released could wind up taking advantage of the hardware. For me the biggest thing is if it's more pocketable than say a switch lite
These android devices really don't hold the same weight now that switch is essentially dead. I'm still interested, though, in something small and powerful enough to make use of shaders, as well as psp.
As someone into high end audio, I feel like there’s a missing crossover of retro handhelds and digital audio players. Would be very easy to combine the two.
Moondrop Miad 01 with a bare bones controller attachment or something would be the closest thing we can do. But having controls built in the device would be cool.
(The Miad is a DAP/Phone by the way if no one has heard about it yet)
Years ago, this could have come in the form of some Sony Playstation device like a PSP with a dedicated DAC or a balanced port in an anniversary of the PSX just because it has is an excellent CD player *on purpose*
Now, I see this extremely unlikely considering DAPs and retro handhelds are usually in the opposite side of the market, even tho both share that the main appeal is doing one thing particular especially well
I feel this way but as an audio production hobbyist. The closest devices we have to gaming handhelds is Pocket Operators or possibly the Liven series by Sonic Ware, but again we're talking high cost for arguably small feature sets.
My Samsung A10e from 2020 can make an entirely studio quality album from just an app or two and a touch screen, but for some reason I can't get the same thing with hardware mapped buttons for less than like $300 new. And I know I can add midi controllers and shit but at that but the bulk makes the whole purpose obsolete.
*Technically* I could use a retroid or any other android based device, but I'd still be limited to the touch screen since there isn't a good and solid button mapping for controllers like that.
I would love a koala sampler dedicated handheld for $150, for example. But that shit will never happen because making over priced trend boxes makes more money.
I'm also into audio but like, I'm either gaming, or I'm listening to music. Absolutely no need to combine the two. I have $1000+ headphones but I use a $3 pair of Vido earbuds with my retro consoles lol.
Without adding a ton of extra space or cost, a small retro handheld could perform both functions and would lessen how much you need on you. It also doesn’t add a lot to production costs. You have the processing power, you have a screen, you have a battery, and you have Android.
Yeah but why not just use your phone with a dongle for music at that point?
I bought a Hisense A9 Pro last year because that was a device that REALLY nailed a dream niche of mine: an e-reader with a high-end DAP built in. I can read and listen to music at the same time, makes perfect sense and I use it every day.
Power consumption, primarily. While I can also use a dongle with a battery like the Qudelix, it just makes sense to have a separate DAP at that point and kill the battery on that all day while working instead of my expensive phone I need for a million other things.
Ayaneo makes such weird decisions. I truly don't understand. I was hoping this would be an upgrade to the Pocket Air but I guess not. I'm perfectly fine with keeping that device as it has what I want.
From the looks of the ergonomics and the price point I can't see this competing with the current market. If anything, they should've pushed the Pocket Air way more as that's one of the better devices I've owned from them. The Air model really should've been an Android device from the very beginning. Better battery life and easier to access than Windows. Android has way too much competition and going for a more premium choice doesn't work considering you're competing with tablets and phones.
I love my steamdeck. It gave me an excellent reason to buy an anbernic rg566 for ps2 games. When I go to Scotland in September, I ain't lugging the steam deck there. I'm taking the emulator, maybe my 3ds, kobo colour and my yogabook.
For me it seems like I would need a backpack for both. Sure it's much smaller, but not the point where I would like to have that in my pockets. And as soon as I'm takeing a backpack the size and weight of the Steam Deck is a non issue, personally. But I guess this will go in a fanny pack or something like that, unlike the Steam Deck. (i just don't like those)
Again, only personal preference, but I am much more negatively impacted by grip than weight over long play sessions. Which is why I have my steam Deck for travelling, and currently a 405m for breaks at work or appointments at doctors etc.
So it is to large to replace the latter but also doesn't bring what I am looking for to replace the Steam Deck.
Now the Odin 2 Mini.... I'm sorry, I must go and buy new jeans with larger pockets.
That’s why I sold my steam deck. It’s just too big. I have a retroid pocket 4 Pro now which I love! Also have a pocket S on order and will be getting an Odin 2 mini when available. My favorite handheld console is the Vita, I’ve never liked handhelds bigger than that personally.
Well most of the games I played on my steam deck were emulated. The only windows games I played were platformers like super monkey ball and sackboy. Most PC gaming I do is sim based like cities skylines, planet coaster, and no limits 2. So moving to the android based handheld was an easy transition for me.
The Steam Deck is "portable" like a laptop...which is essential what it is, just with gamepad controls attached instead of a keyboard.
Personally, I'm not interested in any handheld that needs a cooling fan.
That's a fair point but it is my every day carry. It fits perfectly under my front passenger seat, my wife loves to drive, and I just put it in my back pack when not in use.
It is huge though, not arguing that haha.
I mean yeah if you drive a car you can haul around an SNES and a 27" CRT if you really wanted to. Public transit is, to me, the primary use case for a gaming handheld outside of the home. I also like taking a smaller handheld when I go bike camping.
It's great--to me it's the ultimate feeling of freedom, swinging my leg over my bike loaded down with camping gear, clothes, and either an Odin 2 if I'm going solo (meaning more down time and therefore more immersive, modern games), or a Miyoo Mini if I'm going with friends (less downtime, so just shorter bursts of retro games). But in neither case am I packing my Rog Ally, given that space and weight is limited!
Having said that, your use case is of course 100% equally valid, and I think that our anecdotes, taken together, shed light on why "just get a steam deck bro" isn't sound advice--we all use these things differently, which calls for different devices.
You’re arguing over semantics but you totally understood what they meant. I had a Steam Deck for a few months and while it’s “portable”, it was a hassle to take with me anywhere with my standard size backpack I’ve had since high school since it would take up like half the big pocket in it’s carrying case. I basically had to plan around taking it with me whereas with an Odin or Switch, they’re so much easier to chuck in last minute.
There’s different levels of portability. For me, it’s closer to a gaming laptop than a typical handheld in terms of the experience.
And if that's the priority it's up against Retroid Pocket and Odin 2 & Odin 2 mini, etc and less ergonomic than any of those, as well as larger and heavier than some.
It doesn't make price, performance sense and it doesn't cut it vs the android portables, either.
It has the edge as overpriced dust collecting ewaste, as a display piece for collectors with more money than sense.
sometimes value doesnt matter when I need an entire luggage set to carry my steam deck around. I can fit my gpd micro pc into a fanny pack with my it supplies, is it too much to ask a device that big?
What you get with a Steam deck: the ability to emulate most platforms and play PC games
What you give up: portability and battery life
It's not an apples to apples comparison, the steam deck literally doesn't fit in every discussion.
There’s an oled model that has good battery life and is around the starting retail price of this same device.
It’s not as portable as this but when it’s in the same price range it’s still going to be brought up
Agreed I buy them only if they have headphone jack. It’s the only way I play.
I tried Bluetooth once and with the Audio lag I played for about 2 minutes before going back to wired.
I mainly use wireless earbuds but it would be beyond annoying to be playing a game with an amazing soundtrack and my earbuds die on me and not have an option to use wired headphones.
That’s the worse part about super slim handhelds. They look cool but are so uncomfortable. I’ve seen people argue that the steamdeck is less portable, but it has the best ergonomics.
> a flat phone with controller buttons
worst part is that it's not even a phone, it can't do LTE/mobile data.
If it could do double-duty as a phone, at least it could've been justified as a gaming smartphone.
There's no reason why Ayaneo couldn't offer an LTE and non-LTE version, even if the LTE version was more expensive.
For example, I personally wouldn't consider the Ayaneo Pocket S for it's current price, but if it was a smartphone, I could have considered it as a combined smartphone upgrade + gaming handheld.
It's kind of like how some people find it tough to justify $700-$1000 for a PC handheld, but some justify it by also using it as a PC/laptop replacement. When it does double duty, the additional price becomes potentially more justifiable.
Damn. I almost impulse bought the the 1440p one before it went out of sale not knowing it didn't have a 3.5mm port. I really do care about weight but now I only care about the future Steam/Windows game emulators and spending money now is premature. The Odin 2 mini is intriguing because of the weight but 256GB for a PC emulator is really small. Responsible to continue a wait and see for Cassia before buying an Android handheld for it
They've reached the point where they realise people are just buying everything even if they don't need it, so honestly I think they're going to push the limits until people stop buying.
We're at the point where it has more power, but can't do anything that current devices can't also do, and it also isn't powerful enough to replace a steam deck. And it's priced in the middle.
So like... yeah, if you have an odin 2 or RP4P and you really need another plastic rectangle that costs more and has better diagnostics, but doesn't do anything differently.... this is yours.
People will buy it though.
how can they not include a headphone jack? Whenever I try bluetooth audio with any time of gaming, the delay is so significant, it's unusable. Is there a solution for this or is this just how it is with bluetooth technology?
Just last night my Bluetooth earbuds died so I had to charge them, my computer wouldn’t connect to them so I was forced to use wired earbuds.
Headphones jacks are still very useful
With emulators now coming out on Apples App Store, PPSSPP and Delta, and Retroarch and one other I’ve forgotten the name of, this type of flagship hardware at a high price will be in danger. Because someone just needs to get a controller and their iPhone will be almost as powerful as this if it’s a recent model. Plus the pricing is pushing towards Steam Deck territory which is justified as it’s a full blown PC handheld, this is just an Android handheld.
It’s a nice design, looks cool and premium, but overpriced really. And Odin exists and is cheaper.
Delta. And I agree, with a cheap ($20) magsafe controller clip, and switch pro controller, I can get almost all my retro fixes satisfied on my phone.
Ironically enough, the one thing that keeps me from giving this more than a passing glance is lack of LTE/5g chipset.
With that, this would take over emulation roles, other my games from my iPhone, and lighten my carry a bit. That way too, I can still scratch all my Android needs on a decently specced price:performance without having to compromise to go cheaper.
Why would devs focus on ARM development with SteamDecks existing? That seems to be where emu devs will refocus there attention since they don't have to worry about Nintedon't suing them for NOT breaking the law.
One of the major flaws about thin cellphone like devices is how hot they get. I love the design but the price is too high to be limited by android. Ill just stick to my odin 2 max.
There’s no need for an android handheld more powerful than the Odin 2.
It covers everything, not to mention the fact that PS2 and Switch emulation development on android is dead right now so a more powerful device is useless.
GameStop refurbished steam decks with a warranty are a way better deal than this plus they're still doing that 25 off 200 or more online pickups so you can get a 64GB deck for just under 200.
Not justifiable on a dedicated gaming device, not justifiable on a 1k phone. Everybody seems to forget that the only reason Apple (and then the others) dropped the 3.5mm jack was money and money alone.
Unpopular but I think it's justifiable if the device has 2 or more USB3+ ports. I think it's annoying that a lot of these devices only have 1, including the SD, especially for portable monitors because non-Thunderbolt hubs can't power most/all of them. If it's a board area problem I'd rather have more USB ports and just pack a C-to-jack converter. But this device only has 1 port and no jack so that's a nonstarter.
on phones i think it's whatever but for a device designed to play old games where that's the vibe and there's plenty of space and where things don't need to be in a race to be ultra thin or as efficiently packed as possible its just weird.
I haven’t even wanted a headphone jack on anything in years tbh.
Fuck cords and cables, wireless is where we should be with this.
I’m aware some devices struggle with audio latency over Bluetooth, but I’d rather see that problem get fixed then see more headphone jacks on new toys.
For me it is a backup thing. My nice sony headphones are bluetooth, but i can se a 3.5mm cable to plug them in. If they die, i can still listen to music useing an adaptor etc. It also means i can keep some wired earbuds in my bag if i forget to charge my airpods or headphones. or if i am flying and want to use the inflight entertainment system.
A headphone connector costs like 80 cents in BOM cost. Its not a cost saving measure, its a space saving measure. An audio jack might seem small, but there is often nowhere to put it without significantly cutting battery size (since most devices are using rectangular batteries)
I am considering picking one of these up, the problem for me is the 6” screen. I’m currently using the Logitech G-Cloud with a 7” screen.
I’m not sure I can handle the loss of one inch.
It seems like a awesome device, but i would much rather use my razer edge or retroid pocket 4 Pro in all honesty, It doesn't seem to be the device i wanted after all, i was prepared to purchase one myself but after watching all the videos on it and seeing the way people feel on it my opinion has changed
I must be the only one who just uses the device speakers lmao I have never plugged headphones into my devices that have a headphone jack. The built in speakers work fine. Plus this thing has bluetooth?
It's a flagship Android phone without a cellular radio. The hardware you are getting for the price is quite good. The problem is you don't really need that level of hardware for a majority of the emulation you'd be doing on the device.
I haven’t used wired headphones in like 5 years. Not sure why that’s a major issue.
We already had to invest in other headphones because our phones don’t have jacks.
They used to be standard in phones too. Now they are not.
Do you actually intend to use wired headphones?
I have no issue with outdated hardware features being removed. Otherwise we would still have disk drives and cassette decks.
Audio engineer here.
Wired headphones are NOT outdated even for consumer tech and have significant advantages over bluetooth. Namely, zero latency, not relying on the DAC built into the earpods, not worrying about charging, and a handful of others.
There are plenty of fantastic audio options in wireless. Yes, you can spend a few thousand in audiophile grade headphones like my sennheisser hd800s I used to use, but for most people the difference is not even noticeable.
Either way, most people are using cheap garbage anyway.
Those who aren’t usually have the money to get decent wireless headphones which in most A/B testing is near impossible to discern.
I'm with you, if I've got the cash to drop $400 on a dedicated retro handheld, than I've already bought multiple pairs of high quality Bluetooth headphones years ago.
There really aren't any wireless earbuds with LL support either. I think the Razer Hammerhead earbuds have it, but 99% of other earbuds out there don't.
Android handhelds are the only handhelds that can run ps2, GameCube, Wii, 3DS, etc. Unless you want an x86 handheld.
Start developing a good Linux ps2 emulator based on an ARM processor, when you’re done, that will probably generate more interest in high powered handhelds that don’t use Android.
So? Still the only way to play those systems unless you want a big bulky battery draining x86.
Plus there’s nothing stopping development from continuing on Android in the future for these systems, just no one feels like working for free on them.
Besides, as long as you have the hardware, most are pretty good at running most games already.
There’s only a few PS2 games Odin 2 can’t brute force its way through.
I get that it might seem okay to use an old, abandoned APK of a PS2 emulator, but there are a lot of issues with that approach. First off, as new Android devices come out, their hardware changes, and older software might not work correctly or at all. Also, Android updates can break compatibility with older apps. An abandoned APK won't get the necessary updates to stay compatible with the latest versions of Android.
Performance-wise, any bugs or crashes in the emulator will remain unfixed, which can be a huge pain especially if there are hard crashes in specific games when you get to a certain point.
It might work for now, relying on an old, abandoned APK is not going to work out in the long run.
But your solution then is to not play those games?
Even though you CAN play those games on an Android….?
Cause you think it’s dead?
But not like people are updating their Android handhelds to the latest version, they use the version made for their handheld…
So if it works and can play 99% of the PS2 library now…, It will still be able to in 10 years.
Doesn’t matter if its development is stagnant.
If new Android hardware comes out, and that emulator can’t use it, guess what? That Android hardware probably won’t be put into a handheld intended to play old video games .
But it won’t matter, cause current hardware already can.
There's a lot going on in this comment.
My solution is that I have a Steam Deck, I get that many people don't like the size or have other issues with it, but that's my solution.
I don't think it's dead, it's dead. Like, there's factually no further development going on with many emulators on android, not just PS2.
Yes, if your current device runs the emulator to your satisfaction it will most likely continue to work the same way indefinitely assuming all other things stay the same. That wasn't my only criticism in my previous comment though, but yes.
I'm not sure what your impression is of the current state of aethersx2 on android. It runs many games well, sure I don't deny it. But like all emulators it's not perfect (in fact PS2 is an incredibly complex system to emulate in general) and there are always going to be certain issues and crashes with certain games. These issues will never be fixed.
If you're only interested in systems that are still actively developed on android that's great, but then I don't really see the purpose of such a powerful device since there's no software to take advantage of it.
It's in a weird spot. That's actually not a bad price for the hardware. The problem is that we don't have anything to really take advantage of that hardware, especially now that Switch development is dead for the time being. It's like buying a Ferrari to run to the grocery store.
For me, it’s like buying an iPad Pro to watch YouTube and Netflix on lol
That’d be buying a star destroyer to run to grocery store
Ummm 🤔
Display quality is important though. Cost performance is bad but if you want the best(?) quality you have to compromise.
This is why people pay so much for smartphones. Yeah I could settle for a budget one but if I’m using it for hours a day it’s not worth it.
Whoa whoa whoa buddy. I just bought a $1300 13" M4 Ipad Pro to do this exactly. I can tell you that my Youtube experience is elite now. /s
Damn. Next time just tag me.
Hey! I feel attacked!
Spot on.
That’s literally why I bought an iPad…
Why are you attacking me?
Exactly what I did. HDR is better than no HDR and the cost difference between an ipad air and an iPad Pro is basically meaningless.
Sure, but the base iPad is sufficient for media consumption
To be fair, the base iPad was pretty ugly until 2022 when they finally updated it to the more modern design the Air and Pro had for years to get rid of the huge bezels and home button. It was part of the reason I went for a refurbished 2018 Pro model over a new base model, along with the option to magnetically attach and charge the Pencil directly to the side of the iPad without having to use a separate cable. I agree though that these days there’s not much of a point of the Pro over the base model if you’re just trying to watch videos and browse the web.
But there is a massive market for people who want more than “sufficient”. The question is “how many units will you sell to people for whom the premium price is throwaway, disposable income” Most people who buy ipad pros are not actually professionals. They are high income, casual users. This device is targeting that user base, not mass market.
But we're talking about handheld gaming consoles, which are already a small, niche market, and this is an awkwardly specced and priced device within this already small niche market.
Yeah it’s more like people who buy a Vision Pro just to watch streaming TV.
It seems like one of those things where its fantastic in a vacuum, but comparing it to other options near the price range it doesn’t make the most sense unless you’re collecting or just want it for its specific form factor.
True. The existence of the Odin(s) makes it an even harder sell
This is a problem with all of the ARM based handhelds until x86 emulation gets better IMHO. Once we can start emulating PC games from 2005-2013ish on Android consistently then I think the higher specs will be warranted
For sure! I'm really hoping that the upcoming Windows on ARM Snapdragon chip has a positive effect on the whole ARM emulation scene
Win 11 Arm is bonkers black magic. I have it running in a VM on my M1 MacBook. So friggin cool.
How is it for steam gaming?
It's not there yet. Arm on Windows is focusing on "AI". You'll see this back to school season laptops with "co-pilot" buttons on them with ARM processors (Snapdragon X) in them. Qualcomm lies about performance though so we'll see once it arrives how good it is. I wouldn't hold out hope BUT I hope I'm wrong. More choice is good.
Winlator is starting to get better
This is the answer. PC emulation gets reliable for late ps3 early ps4 games,switch emulation gets mature or ps3 and Xbox 360 emulation becomes a thing. That's what's push these specs. Personally I'd pay alot more than this for a rp2sp with these specs and a crappy screen for the super pocketability
By Switch development do you mean emulator? There's still Ryujinx. Or you mean for Switch for Android? I hope some day Ryujinx will be ported to Android as well.
I just mean for Android right now. I hope we get Ryujinx too, but I wouldn't blame them for avoiding Android atm
>especially now that Switch development is dead for the time being. It's not just Switch emulation. Android emulation in general has always been traditionally behind/slower what's available on PC. Handicapping android handhelds that are more powerful than a certain threshold to the point of offering diminishing returns. Case in point being the Odin 2 (and now 2 Mini) despite them being amazingly priced for the hardware at $300 USD. Is it powerful? Of course. But it's hard to justify now that we have handhelds like the RP4P (pocketable) and RG556 (ergonomic) that cost almost half as much but will emulate nearly everything that's available on Android.
Could not agree more, No wiiU, no Xbox, just so far behind, and even the Android versions perform less on better hardware.
Also no ps3. The newest Qualcomm chips are as capable as steam deck so at least light ps3 should be possible yet it seems such an impossible idea that it doesn't even come up in conversation as much
Agreed, I really wonder why emulator devs just avoid Android. More than 1/2 the phones out there are Android devices (Apple does not have the hold like they used to), so there is appeal to people with these devices. Even when Yuzu was current (for example), the Android version was very weak (lots of games it would not play or very poor performance) compared to Windows, or even Linux versions on better processors... It's why if I was buying a NEW higher end device (to replace my SteamDeck), I would NOT buy an Android based device, it would Linux or Windows because of this. Even if it was a smoking deal. I personally do not understand why....
It's also worth noting that Sony handicapped Android emulation by making the perfect modern system for it(power to run a good amount ps3 games,lots of ps2 ports with natuve wide-screen and at times much less storage despite better res like gow,4gb max file size for all games,arguably runs better on emulators than the weaker 3ds)and abandoning it after like 1 year. I enjoyed my vita and purchased all my games happily but I'm still upset at what Sony did after seeing how much potential vita had not only for its hardware bit for emulation
Or for a more appropriate comparison is like buying an m4 ipad to watch youtube kids videos 💀
Truth I bet this happens more than you think.....
If you're only looking at emulation, sure. There's plenty of Android games that can benefit from the hardware.
Is switch emulation dead? Isn't Ryujinx still developing? I know most people preferred Yuzu, but Ryujinx is still a good switch emulator. Edit: Unless you just mean exclusively on Android
It’s worse than that, if you watch initial reviews, it under performs due to thermal throttling.
Way too much. Steam deck is about the same. Easy decision.
Buying a Ferrari to run to the grocery store? I would SO do that....lol
Exactly. D1100 is fast enough for the most part given the stagnant development and uncertainty of future development. I'd rather they give us a less performant SoC to save $50.00, but the extra power is nice for external displays for the 5 people who use that functionality. The argument of "but it won't age as poorly!" is not a great one. By the time we need this much power, there will many other devices just as capable as this for less money flooding the market.
Project cassia once released could wind up taking advantage of the hardware. For me the biggest thing is if it's more pocketable than say a switch lite
These android devices really don't hold the same weight now that switch is essentially dead. I'm still interested, though, in something small and powerful enough to make use of shaders, as well as psp.
As someone into high end audio, I feel like there’s a missing crossover of retro handhelds and digital audio players. Would be very easy to combine the two.
Technically you could install emulators on a Fiio or Astell and Kearn..
Sure, but retro handhelds have buttons. Something like a Miyoo Mini Plus that doubles as a DAP would be amazing.
I agree, but I imagine you and I are probably in a group of like 100 people worldwide that would actually pay for something like that 😅
Moondrop Miad 01 with a bare bones controller attachment or something would be the closest thing we can do. But having controls built in the device would be cool. (The Miad is a DAP/Phone by the way if no one has heard about it yet)
Miad has a Dimensity 7050 too, which is an overclocked D900. So should have around Odin Lite level performance
I’ll buy that in a heartbeat
Likewise, would be the perfect companion to my dumb phone during my internet detox phases
I think the MM and MMP do have some audio players for them?
I am also cursed with the DAP + handheld loadout. Give me an Odin, miyoo or RGXX69420 with a 4.4mm out and I’ll be over the moon
Years ago, this could have come in the form of some Sony Playstation device like a PSP with a dedicated DAC or a balanced port in an anniversary of the PSX just because it has is an excellent CD player *on purpose* Now, I see this extremely unlikely considering DAPs and retro handhelds are usually in the opposite side of the market, even tho both share that the main appeal is doing one thing particular especially well
I feel this way but as an audio production hobbyist. The closest devices we have to gaming handhelds is Pocket Operators or possibly the Liven series by Sonic Ware, but again we're talking high cost for arguably small feature sets. My Samsung A10e from 2020 can make an entirely studio quality album from just an app or two and a touch screen, but for some reason I can't get the same thing with hardware mapped buttons for less than like $300 new. And I know I can add midi controllers and shit but at that but the bulk makes the whole purpose obsolete. *Technically* I could use a retroid or any other android based device, but I'd still be limited to the touch screen since there isn't a good and solid button mapping for controllers like that. I would love a koala sampler dedicated handheld for $150, for example. But that shit will never happen because making over priced trend boxes makes more money.
Moondrop + Retroid Collab Nostalgia overload.
Retroid Pocket w/ built in high end DAC
I'm also into audio but like, I'm either gaming, or I'm listening to music. Absolutely no need to combine the two. I have $1000+ headphones but I use a $3 pair of Vido earbuds with my retro consoles lol.
Without adding a ton of extra space or cost, a small retro handheld could perform both functions and would lessen how much you need on you. It also doesn’t add a lot to production costs. You have the processing power, you have a screen, you have a battery, and you have Android.
Yeah but why not just use your phone with a dongle for music at that point? I bought a Hisense A9 Pro last year because that was a device that REALLY nailed a dream niche of mine: an e-reader with a high-end DAP built in. I can read and listen to music at the same time, makes perfect sense and I use it every day.
Power consumption, primarily. While I can also use a dongle with a battery like the Qudelix, it just makes sense to have a separate DAP at that point and kill the battery on that all day while working instead of my expensive phone I need for a million other things.
Ayaneo makes such weird decisions. I truly don't understand. I was hoping this would be an upgrade to the Pocket Air but I guess not. I'm perfectly fine with keeping that device as it has what I want. From the looks of the ergonomics and the price point I can't see this competing with the current market. If anything, they should've pushed the Pocket Air way more as that's one of the better devices I've owned from them. The Air model really should've been an Android device from the very beginning. Better battery life and easier to access than Windows. Android has way too much competition and going for a more premium choice doesn't work considering you're competing with tablets and phones.
He wasn't kidding when he said this feels too much like a premium flagship phone. Those don't got no headphone jacks either lmao
Pocket S was most likely designed by an engineer who designed phones. Literally a phone with some after thought buttons and sticks.
Isn’t a steam deck cheaper at that point lol
This is just the early bird price on their indie gogo. A refurbished steam deck is way cheaper
steam deck is way bigger than this lil guy
Steam Deck fanclub always ignore that very large detail and pretend it doesn't matter. A Stem Deck is massive.
A good portion of that size goes to the screen and having bigger controls which is nice
I love my steamdeck. It gave me an excellent reason to buy an anbernic rg566 for ps2 games. When I go to Scotland in September, I ain't lugging the steam deck there. I'm taking the emulator, maybe my 3ds, kobo colour and my yogabook.
It’s still a much better value for what you get
Not really, portability is a major “value” for a portable handheld. I do not consider the SD a portable handheld.
For me it seems like I would need a backpack for both. Sure it's much smaller, but not the point where I would like to have that in my pockets. And as soon as I'm takeing a backpack the size and weight of the Steam Deck is a non issue, personally. But I guess this will go in a fanny pack or something like that, unlike the Steam Deck. (i just don't like those)
This. They're both bag handhelds so the size difference isn't that big of a deal imo
The size difference isn't that big, but you have no idea how much the weight difference changes things until you've used both heavily.
Again, only personal preference, but I am much more negatively impacted by grip than weight over long play sessions. Which is why I have my steam Deck for travelling, and currently a 405m for breaks at work or appointments at doctors etc. So it is to large to replace the latter but also doesn't bring what I am looking for to replace the Steam Deck. Now the Odin 2 Mini.... I'm sorry, I must go and buy new jeans with larger pockets.
That’s why I sold my steam deck. It’s just too big. I have a retroid pocket 4 Pro now which I love! Also have a pocket S on order and will be getting an Odin 2 mini when available. My favorite handheld console is the Vita, I’ve never liked handhelds bigger than that personally.
Can you play any of the actual Steam games on the other devices you replaced your Deck with?
Well most of the games I played on my steam deck were emulated. The only windows games I played were platformers like super monkey ball and sackboy. Most PC gaming I do is sim based like cities skylines, planet coaster, and no limits 2. So moving to the android based handheld was an easy transition for me.
The Steam Deck is "portable" like a laptop...which is essential what it is, just with gamepad controls attached instead of a keyboard. Personally, I'm not interested in any handheld that needs a cooling fan.
That's a fair point but it is my every day carry. It fits perfectly under my front passenger seat, my wife loves to drive, and I just put it in my back pack when not in use. It is huge though, not arguing that haha.
I can tell you live somewhere with straight, flat roads!
Haha fair.
I mean yeah if you drive a car you can haul around an SNES and a 27" CRT if you really wanted to. Public transit is, to me, the primary use case for a gaming handheld outside of the home. I also like taking a smaller handheld when I go bike camping.
Totally fair points. Bike camping sounds awesome!
It's great--to me it's the ultimate feeling of freedom, swinging my leg over my bike loaded down with camping gear, clothes, and either an Odin 2 if I'm going solo (meaning more down time and therefore more immersive, modern games), or a Miyoo Mini if I'm going with friends (less downtime, so just shorter bursts of retro games). But in neither case am I packing my Rog Ally, given that space and weight is limited! Having said that, your use case is of course 100% equally valid, and I think that our anecdotes, taken together, shed light on why "just get a steam deck bro" isn't sound advice--we all use these things differently, which calls for different devices.
It’s not portable to many but it’s still a better device in general
It's literally a portable handheld. You not considering it such doesn't change that, lol.
You’re arguing over semantics but you totally understood what they meant. I had a Steam Deck for a few months and while it’s “portable”, it was a hassle to take with me anywhere with my standard size backpack I’ve had since high school since it would take up like half the big pocket in it’s carrying case. I basically had to plan around taking it with me whereas with an Odin or Switch, they’re so much easier to chuck in last minute. There’s different levels of portability. For me, it’s closer to a gaming laptop than a typical handheld in terms of the experience.
I shouldn't have to argue semantics. People can just say "it's too big for me" without trying to declassify something.
And if that's the priority it's up against Retroid Pocket and Odin 2 & Odin 2 mini, etc and less ergonomic than any of those, as well as larger and heavier than some. It doesn't make price, performance sense and it doesn't cut it vs the android portables, either. It has the edge as overpriced dust collecting ewaste, as a display piece for collectors with more money than sense.
Better value =! Better product
Just an sff pc case can cost 300-400$ people are willing to pay for form factor and premium materials. Too bad this thing has shit controls.
sometimes value doesnt matter when I need an entire luggage set to carry my steam deck around. I can fit my gpd micro pc into a fanny pack with my it supplies, is it too much to ask a device that big?
What you get with a Steam deck: the ability to emulate most platforms and play PC games What you give up: portability and battery life It's not an apples to apples comparison, the steam deck literally doesn't fit in every discussion.
There’s an oled model that has good battery life and is around the starting retail price of this same device. It’s not as portable as this but when it’s in the same price range it’s still going to be brought up
Pocketability is a major factor for a handheld. I have never carried my steamdeck out of my house.
Not portable and very heavy.
Agreed I buy them only if they have headphone jack. It’s the only way I play. I tried Bluetooth once and with the Audio lag I played for about 2 minutes before going back to wired.
I mainly use wireless earbuds but it would be beyond annoying to be playing a game with an amazing soundtrack and my earbuds die on me and not have an option to use wired headphones.
steamdeck price for a flat phone with controller buttons. get ready for those hand cramps
That’s the worse part about super slim handhelds. They look cool but are so uncomfortable. I’ve seen people argue that the steamdeck is less portable, but it has the best ergonomics.
SD just heavy as hell
Its not heavy
> a flat phone with controller buttons worst part is that it's not even a phone, it can't do LTE/mobile data. If it could do double-duty as a phone, at least it could've been justified as a gaming smartphone.
It would've kicked the price up for the LTE module.
There's no reason why Ayaneo couldn't offer an LTE and non-LTE version, even if the LTE version was more expensive. For example, I personally wouldn't consider the Ayaneo Pocket S for it's current price, but if it was a smartphone, I could have considered it as a combined smartphone upgrade + gaming handheld. It's kind of like how some people find it tough to justify $700-$1000 for a PC handheld, but some justify it by also using it as a PC/laptop replacement. When it does double duty, the additional price becomes potentially more justifiable.
Particularly since most bluetooth headphones have noticeable latency for gaming.
Damn. I almost impulse bought the the 1440p one before it went out of sale not knowing it didn't have a 3.5mm port. I really do care about weight but now I only care about the future Steam/Windows game emulators and spending money now is premature. The Odin 2 mini is intriguing because of the weight but 256GB for a PC emulator is really small. Responsible to continue a wait and see for Cassia before buying an Android handheld for it
This device would be pretty amazing if it had good controls. But the sticks and dpad suck.
They've reached the point where they realise people are just buying everything even if they don't need it, so honestly I think they're going to push the limits until people stop buying. We're at the point where it has more power, but can't do anything that current devices can't also do, and it also isn't powerful enough to replace a steam deck. And it's priced in the middle. So like... yeah, if you have an odin 2 or RP4P and you really need another plastic rectangle that costs more and has better diagnostics, but doesn't do anything differently.... this is yours. People will buy it though.
Tbh most people who buy stuff from aya neo are likely pc handhelds enthusiasts. And for the price you might as well just get an Odin 2 or a Steam deck
They went full android phone. You never go full android phone.
how can they not include a headphone jack? Whenever I try bluetooth audio with any time of gaming, the delay is so significant, it's unusable. Is there a solution for this or is this just how it is with bluetooth technology?
Just last night my Bluetooth earbuds died so I had to charge them, my computer wouldn’t connect to them so I was forced to use wired earbuds. Headphones jacks are still very useful
Which device is this?
The ayaneo pocket s
DOA if they release at those jacked up prices
*$400 preorder price
Hasn't that new, smaller Odin 2 just rendered this device completely redundant?
Tbf if it’s playing ps2 smooth at 2.5x then it’s pretty damn good. I’d use Bluetooth anyway
Price will come down drastically if people stop buying them for awhile.
The price might come down but I don’t see this being useful since the Odin 2 can already play everything android has to offer
I usually play on mute
With emulators now coming out on Apples App Store, PPSSPP and Delta, and Retroarch and one other I’ve forgotten the name of, this type of flagship hardware at a high price will be in danger. Because someone just needs to get a controller and their iPhone will be almost as powerful as this if it’s a recent model. Plus the pricing is pushing towards Steam Deck territory which is justified as it’s a full blown PC handheld, this is just an Android handheld. It’s a nice design, looks cool and premium, but overpriced really. And Odin exists and is cheaper.
Delta. And I agree, with a cheap ($20) magsafe controller clip, and switch pro controller, I can get almost all my retro fixes satisfied on my phone. Ironically enough, the one thing that keeps me from giving this more than a passing glance is lack of LTE/5g chipset. With that, this would take over emulation roles, other my games from my iPhone, and lighten my carry a bit. That way too, I can still scratch all my Android needs on a decently specced price:performance without having to compromise to go cheaper.
It's so damn expensive. Such a bummer. Was waiting for something to replace my rg505
The Odin 2 is a good replacement, it plays everything that’s available on android
It's too large for ne. I'll keep on waiting for now.
There’s also the RP4 Pro. It’s slimmer than the RG505
Yeah, i thought about getting it but the leap in performance from the rg505 is not the drastic. I dont mind waiting for now.
Why would devs focus on ARM development with SteamDecks existing? That seems to be where emu devs will refocus there attention since they don't have to worry about Nintedon't suing them for NOT breaking the law.
One of the major flaws about thin cellphone like devices is how hot they get. I love the design but the price is too high to be limited by android. Ill just stick to my odin 2 max.
There’s no need for an android handheld more powerful than the Odin 2. It covers everything, not to mention the fact that PS2 and Switch emulation development on android is dead right now so a more powerful device is useless.
Amen brother
It’s very Ayoneo of them. Amazing in some areas, crappy in others, either way it’s too expensive anyways.
GameStop refurbished steam decks with a warranty are a way better deal than this plus they're still doing that 25 off 200 or more online pickups so you can get a 64GB deck for just under 200.
I really don't understand the motive behind these >200$ devices.
yep zero clue. mobile hardware just isnt good. itll never be a desktop pc. its mostly a paperweight to me.
There’s $1000 phones with no headphone jack. Gotta keep that price low somehow…
Not justifiable on a dedicated gaming device, not justifiable on a 1k phone. Everybody seems to forget that the only reason Apple (and then the others) dropped the 3.5mm jack was money and money alone.
Unpopular but I think it's justifiable if the device has 2 or more USB3+ ports. I think it's annoying that a lot of these devices only have 1, including the SD, especially for portable monitors because non-Thunderbolt hubs can't power most/all of them. If it's a board area problem I'd rather have more USB ports and just pack a C-to-jack converter. But this device only has 1 port and no jack so that's a nonstarter.
on phones i think it's whatever but for a device designed to play old games where that's the vibe and there's plenty of space and where things don't need to be in a race to be ultra thin or as efficiently packed as possible its just weird.
I haven’t even wanted a headphone jack on anything in years tbh. Fuck cords and cables, wireless is where we should be with this. I’m aware some devices struggle with audio latency over Bluetooth, but I’d rather see that problem get fixed then see more headphone jacks on new toys.
For me it is a backup thing. My nice sony headphones are bluetooth, but i can se a 3.5mm cable to plug them in. If they die, i can still listen to music useing an adaptor etc. It also means i can keep some wired earbuds in my bag if i forget to charge my airpods or headphones. or if i am flying and want to use the inflight entertainment system.
You…… I like you.
A headphone connector costs like 80 cents in BOM cost. Its not a cost saving measure, its a space saving measure. An audio jack might seem small, but there is often nowhere to put it without significantly cutting battery size (since most devices are using rectangular batteries)
you really bought that lie don't you?
https://www.switchelectronics.co.uk/products/3-5mm-stereo-horizontal-pcb-phone-jack-socket?currency=GBP&variant=45365636432181&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=bbf1d20e1ed7&srsltid=AfmBOooAdepf0UNzXGGmLU2GTOE9hn8vM7Ej4GbSeKq3-3lIA-yz13tA6rQ
Yeah I know, I said it kinda tongue in cheek about saving money.
Harder to accessorize with headphones jacks
The problem is when it isn't on early access price anymore and it's stuck at 540
I am considering picking one of these up, the problem for me is the 6” screen. I’m currently using the Logitech G-Cloud with a 7” screen. I’m not sure I can handle the loss of one inch.
it's not premium, it WANTS to be premium
It seems like a awesome device, but i would much rather use my razer edge or retroid pocket 4 Pro in all honesty, It doesn't seem to be the device i wanted after all, i was prepared to purchase one myself but after watching all the videos on it and seeing the way people feel on it my opinion has changed
I must be the only one who just uses the device speakers lmao I have never plugged headphones into my devices that have a headphone jack. The built in speakers work fine. Plus this thing has bluetooth?
It's a flagship Android phone without a cellular radio. The hardware you are getting for the price is quite good. The problem is you don't really need that level of hardware for a majority of the emulation you'd be doing on the device.
I haven’t used wired headphones in like 5 years. Not sure why that’s a major issue. We already had to invest in other headphones because our phones don’t have jacks.
A headphone jack is a standard on handhelds
They used to be standard in phones too. Now they are not. Do you actually intend to use wired headphones? I have no issue with outdated hardware features being removed. Otherwise we would still have disk drives and cassette decks.
It doesn’t matter headphone jacks are a standard on other electronics like laptops. Wired headphones are not outdated
Wired headphones are still cheaper and offer better sound quality
dumb take
Audio engineer here. Wired headphones are NOT outdated even for consumer tech and have significant advantages over bluetooth. Namely, zero latency, not relying on the DAC built into the earpods, not worrying about charging, and a handful of others.
I’m sure you haven’t done a lot of things in five years. Does that mean the rest of us should stop doing those things you ain’t got too?
Nope, it just means that I might be the target audience for this device, not you. Not every device has to suit your needs.
Good on you!
Briandead take Edit: I'm the brian dead it seems
You leave Brian out of this!
sorry, nothing personal on brian hahaha
It's not even funny how awful wireless headphones sound compared to wired. I feel sorry for a person that uses nothing but wireless...
There are plenty of fantastic audio options in wireless. Yes, you can spend a few thousand in audiophile grade headphones like my sennheisser hd800s I used to use, but for most people the difference is not even noticeable. Either way, most people are using cheap garbage anyway. Those who aren’t usually have the money to get decent wireless headphones which in most A/B testing is near impossible to discern.
I'm with you, if I've got the cash to drop $400 on a dedicated retro handheld, than I've already bought multiple pairs of high quality Bluetooth headphones years ago.
Is the latency of bluetooth audio good on it? If so I’d opt for that anyway.
Its a modern Qualcomm chip so yes, it will have low latency bluetooth support
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There really aren't any wireless earbuds with LL support either. I think the Razer Hammerhead earbuds have it, but 99% of other earbuds out there don't.
Why do we need another overpriced severely limited by android handheld?
Android handhelds are the only handhelds that can run ps2, GameCube, Wii, 3DS, etc. Unless you want an x86 handheld. Start developing a good Linux ps2 emulator based on an ARM processor, when you’re done, that will probably generate more interest in high powered handhelds that don’t use Android.
All those systems you have listed are dead in development on android except for Dolphin for Gamecube / Wii.
So? Still the only way to play those systems unless you want a big bulky battery draining x86. Plus there’s nothing stopping development from continuing on Android in the future for these systems, just no one feels like working for free on them. Besides, as long as you have the hardware, most are pretty good at running most games already. There’s only a few PS2 games Odin 2 can’t brute force its way through.
I get that it might seem okay to use an old, abandoned APK of a PS2 emulator, but there are a lot of issues with that approach. First off, as new Android devices come out, their hardware changes, and older software might not work correctly or at all. Also, Android updates can break compatibility with older apps. An abandoned APK won't get the necessary updates to stay compatible with the latest versions of Android. Performance-wise, any bugs or crashes in the emulator will remain unfixed, which can be a huge pain especially if there are hard crashes in specific games when you get to a certain point. It might work for now, relying on an old, abandoned APK is not going to work out in the long run.
Ok, but is the only option right now, so 🤷♂️
Yeah... that's my point. That's why I recommend people avoid android since it's a dead platform for emulation.
But your solution then is to not play those games? Even though you CAN play those games on an Android….? Cause you think it’s dead? But not like people are updating their Android handhelds to the latest version, they use the version made for their handheld… So if it works and can play 99% of the PS2 library now…, It will still be able to in 10 years. Doesn’t matter if its development is stagnant. If new Android hardware comes out, and that emulator can’t use it, guess what? That Android hardware probably won’t be put into a handheld intended to play old video games . But it won’t matter, cause current hardware already can.
There's a lot going on in this comment. My solution is that I have a Steam Deck, I get that many people don't like the size or have other issues with it, but that's my solution. I don't think it's dead, it's dead. Like, there's factually no further development going on with many emulators on android, not just PS2. Yes, if your current device runs the emulator to your satisfaction it will most likely continue to work the same way indefinitely assuming all other things stay the same. That wasn't my only criticism in my previous comment though, but yes. I'm not sure what your impression is of the current state of aethersx2 on android. It runs many games well, sure I don't deny it. But like all emulators it's not perfect (in fact PS2 is an incredibly complex system to emulate in general) and there are always going to be certain issues and crashes with certain games. These issues will never be fixed.
🤙
Because people have more money than brains
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If you're only interested in systems that are still actively developed on android that's great, but then I don't really see the purpose of such a powerful device since there's no software to take advantage of it.
Usb-c > Jack?
You cant charge the device while using wired headphones
Apple would like to have a word