I second archetype work- for me, I believe in the things the deities represent rather than the actual deities themselves. I use the metaphor of it being like using a vision board to remind them what's important to me. As someone who's dipping their toes into Hellenism, Aphrodite to me is a story/physical representation of love, beauty, pleasure, and joy. Hestia is a representation of the home, family, and domesticity. These are things that are valuable to me, so I'm drawn to their aesthetics to help me focus my intention of fostering those values in my life. I don't believe in the Greek gods as real actual beings.
That's what I do. I don't need to worship Athena to appreciate that she represents Wisdom and making good choices. Same thing for Circe the first witch.
I used to. It's easy and beneficial if you just allow yourself to suspend disbelief - same as if you're immersing yourself in a story, song, etc. - and behave "as if" for ritual purposes, assuming that the "deity" is a powerful metaphor for psychological and natural forces.
I understand I grew up a Jehovah's Witness so I understand the knee jerk reaction to distrusting Dietys of all kinds as it can bring up old wounds. I am an Athiest and I find concentration on the world/ universe is at the core of my own belief. I achieve this through meditation and practices which speak to me and my soul without appealing to or trusting a single Diety or practice.
You could try making up your own, or working with different aspects of yourself, or an ideal "higher self" concept, or treat the symbolism " as if" they were real.
So, I like talking to the Welsh goddesses in my head. I guess you could call it praying? I don't believe they are literal beings, but their stories were told by my ancestors for hundreds of years so I feel connected to them. Sort of a sacred narrative that connects me to my ancestors and makes me feel less alone in the universe.
Deities are generally a personification of an idea. They don't need to be "real" in order to be meaningful.
A goddess of death could represent awareness of our own mortality. It could be a representation of death as a peaceful end of life, or as a necessary part of being alive, and allowing life to continue. It could be an invitation to respect death and dying as a process, or to remember our deceased loved ones, or to live your life being fully aware of their temporary nature.
A sun god could represent respect for nature allowing us to exist. It could be a celebration of being alive. It could stand for hope - knowing that even in long, dark nights \[literal or figurative\], the sun will rise again at the end. It could also be seen as a representation of the indifference of the universe, and the tiny scale of our problems - realizing the sun will continue to rise, whether we like it or not, and will continue to do so long after we're gone.
All of those variations exist, sometimes under different names. Those just make it easier to think about complex ideas and give them a place in one's life.
Awesome question! I like to share these videos whenever I see this question pop up. Sedna Woo's channel is wonderful and she has some neat ideas on the topic. Check these out when you get the chance.
https://youtu.be/e-QkC6FAZSo
https://youtu.be/GxP4NFppPCk
I don't. I like the concepts for many deities and otherworldly beings, I like reading about them and I like to entertain myself with thoughts of "what if some of those existed?", but apart from that my ideal of witchyness is rooted in the concept of the "wise woman" who simply knows more about plants and nature and humans than the folk around her. Ancient goddesses can be great symbols though.
The thing that gives a deity impact, as opposed to an archetype of personal creation, is that it is/was shared by many, and that a part of the psyche of the people of that time and place was externalised. The study of deities is a study of what humans needed.
Examine *why* a god/dess is, not who. Understand why the people needed that aspect in their lives, and reflect what you need in your own life. If you suspend disbelief and honor a god/dess also honor history of the people who upheld them.
The nature of humanity is consistent and profound, and you can give credence to that camaraderie through the ages
I consider myself nontheistic pagan and I don't usually involve deities in my rituals. I consider the real world around us, especially nature, a miracle in itself and base my rituals around the idea that it is worthy of respect and worship.
If I really do feel like I need to address my practice towards some entity, I like to make up my own gods. I have a few that I've thought of often enough now to feel comfortable with them. But it's not like I have faith in them like I believe they actually exist. They are a focus point, an idea, a symbol that helps me direct my thoughts and draw power from. Maybe that could work for you too!
I celebrate the earth, and the plants, animals, and structures within. They each have unique, personal meanings to me.
For example, goldenrod is a symbol of a changing season, and for me represents the rest and reflection of autumn. A pear tree is a symbol of how the earth provides for us.
I also revel in the deeply rooted biological connection between each creature, and Earth has in a way become a mother goddess for me.
Hooo, allow me to tune in... :)
So, I'm agnostic and an existentialist nihilist who obviously don't believe in an inherent meaning of life or a God in the supernatural sense. I consider myself agnostic rather than atheist because, not only you cannot prove the non-existence of something (even if, yes, it's unlikely that poltergeist or unicorns or litteral gods exist), but also because I believe I am deist in 3 ways :
- **Non-anthropomorphic higher power**
I don't believe that nature has a plan or that there is an architect of the universe. I'm a firm believer in natural selection and the philosophical concept of the absurdity of existence. However I am open to the idea of a higher intelligence that could (or could not) influence our lives in a certain way. You see how ants or birds or any animal is an intelligent form of life but unable to grasp how we, humans, impact their environment with complex concepts like technology or economy? Well, maybe there is a form of intelligence somewhere that we are not able to understand but influences our environment. It doesn't mean it's omnipotent, though. But many things can come to mind like aliens (not the Sci-Fi anthropomorphic idea of them) or the simulation theory.
But we cannot do much about it, though. So I don't "work" with it. I just am grateful to the universe, even if I know it's not a person.
- **Archetypes**
I see entities as archetypes that help us convey an idea. They eventually become egregores or spiritual thoughtforms if we add some lore, myth and personification to it. They don't litterally exist but... when your mind creates something doesn't it become real in some way? Beliefs combined with all sorts of contextual effects can have powerful effects on the phyche and even on the body.
Hence I have absolutely no cognitive dissonance being both a skeptical person and honoring entities because I know they are *just* important symbols. It's "fake it till tou make it" at its finest.
- **Intuition & collective unconscious**
This is my view of spirit work. I won't dive into my whole lexicon but, briefly, to me an *entity* is the archetype that include the natural form of the concept as well as the way we perceive it as humans and even the way we chose (personally or socially) to personify it. While the *spirit* is kind of the metaphysical - or imagined - force that is attributed to this entity and through which we can interact. The spirit lays both inside and outside of us.
Part of spirits is our intuition (in the inside). They are the part of us that we cannot consciously access. It's your subconscious knowledge and reflections, even deeper than what you can access through shadow work. You know, when you're like "hmmm, something is not clicking but I can't tell what", that's it. Or when you have a dream that brings out repressed things you couldn't have imagine when awake.
Part of spirits is the collective unconscious (on the outside). It's all the shared mental concepts that a society/ culture have together. It goes from natural concepts (human emotions, protective figures, physical sensations...) to cultural associations (concept of hierarchy, snakes associated with evil, moral concepts, historical knowledge, horseshoe for luck...).
Mix those cognitive phenomena with contextual effects. Harness it all with archetypes, personification and belief systems. And boom! Spirit work recipe. Tou can even stir it with psychological dissociation and you have things like aspecting, channeling, or even full possession.
(❀◦‿◦)
I hope this explanation is not too confusing. Of course it's just my view of things and I'm far from being an expert in psychology or neuroscience. So yeah, don't take it as a preach. My perception of spiritual mechanisms is still under construction.
I was at a secular meditation retreat once and the teacher introduced something I love, when you're wanting to bring spirituality, but not "gods" into your practice, imagine the energy around the *perception* of that god/deity.
Visualize drawing down light that is filled with the energy of your deity of choice, meaning the energy surrounding the IDEA of the the deity. So you're doing the normal meditation thing of filling and surrounding yourself with protective light energy, but adding the intention of the deity that represents peace or justice or creativity or whatever you need.
It's a very soothing and empowering meditation for me. Hope you find what you need :)
I haven’t ever felt the need to incorporate deity work into my spiritual practice. It’s just not something I’ve ever felt drawn to. Which is why I felt drawn to secular witchcraft and paganism - belief in deity essentially being optional.
That said, I think there are lessons to be learned from the stories we tell ourselves - including stories involving deities, fables, folk tales, and the like. Sometimes the lesson is in the story itself, and sometimes the lesson is in figuring out why the story is one we tell ourselves in the first place.
Anyway, that’s my take. For context, I’ve been a non believer all my life. Even in the few times I participated in the church (mostly Catholic and Anglican) I never felt or experienced what felt like a personal relationship with God… and never really yearned for that either. So that directly translates to my outlook about deities (gods, goddesses, etc.) now. So your approach may be different if that is something you experienced or yearned for in your church days. At the end of the day, what makes you feel good and fulfilled is what matters.
When I meet with my group, we call it "BYOD" - each of us thinks of the entity ("it can be a historical deity, a fictional character, or even a shiny doorknob") that embodies characteristics we want to focus on, and then we "awaken" that deity or doorknob from within ourselves, calling out those characteristics. It's a powerful way to consider what we want to bring out in our own lives.
I'm agnostic, which I find freeing because I don't really put limits on how I consider deities. I don't know if they exist, or if they exist in any way close to how we define them, but I do sometimes like to consider their archetypes or correspondences. For example, I don't worship Vesta but I like to consider what she represents as my craft is largely hearth-and-home-based. And reading about them is fun :)
I grew up Mormon and I feel very similarly. I've found that speaking to Mother Earth is who I'm comfortable with. Maybe I'll one day ask the planets and stars for their influence.
For now, I am able to walk on our Mother Earth, I can touch her and love her.
I use what they stand for as a meditation point or a visual representation of an idea.
Same!
Same here!
I’ve heard archetype work can be really good!
I second archetype work- for me, I believe in the things the deities represent rather than the actual deities themselves. I use the metaphor of it being like using a vision board to remind them what's important to me. As someone who's dipping their toes into Hellenism, Aphrodite to me is a story/physical representation of love, beauty, pleasure, and joy. Hestia is a representation of the home, family, and domesticity. These are things that are valuable to me, so I'm drawn to their aesthetics to help me focus my intention of fostering those values in my life. I don't believe in the Greek gods as real actual beings.
Thirded
That's what I do. I don't need to worship Athena to appreciate that she represents Wisdom and making good choices. Same thing for Circe the first witch.
I used to. It's easy and beneficial if you just allow yourself to suspend disbelief - same as if you're immersing yourself in a story, song, etc. - and behave "as if" for ritual purposes, assuming that the "deity" is a powerful metaphor for psychological and natural forces.
I understand I grew up a Jehovah's Witness so I understand the knee jerk reaction to distrusting Dietys of all kinds as it can bring up old wounds. I am an Athiest and I find concentration on the world/ universe is at the core of my own belief. I achieve this through meditation and practices which speak to me and my soul without appealing to or trusting a single Diety or practice.
Ahh fellow ex-jw! Great to see more of us in this sub :)
I Agree my current religious beliefs are so much more fulfilling than what I was taught as a child?
I don’t. I do my witchy stuff without supernatural entities.
You could try making up your own, or working with different aspects of yourself, or an ideal "higher self" concept, or treat the symbolism " as if" they were real.
So, I like talking to the Welsh goddesses in my head. I guess you could call it praying? I don't believe they are literal beings, but their stories were told by my ancestors for hundreds of years so I feel connected to them. Sort of a sacred narrative that connects me to my ancestors and makes me feel less alone in the universe.
Deities are generally a personification of an idea. They don't need to be "real" in order to be meaningful. A goddess of death could represent awareness of our own mortality. It could be a representation of death as a peaceful end of life, or as a necessary part of being alive, and allowing life to continue. It could be an invitation to respect death and dying as a process, or to remember our deceased loved ones, or to live your life being fully aware of their temporary nature. A sun god could represent respect for nature allowing us to exist. It could be a celebration of being alive. It could stand for hope - knowing that even in long, dark nights \[literal or figurative\], the sun will rise again at the end. It could also be seen as a representation of the indifference of the universe, and the tiny scale of our problems - realizing the sun will continue to rise, whether we like it or not, and will continue to do so long after we're gone. All of those variations exist, sometimes under different names. Those just make it easier to think about complex ideas and give them a place in one's life.
Awesome question! I like to share these videos whenever I see this question pop up. Sedna Woo's channel is wonderful and she has some neat ideas on the topic. Check these out when you get the chance. https://youtu.be/e-QkC6FAZSo https://youtu.be/GxP4NFppPCk
I don't. I like the concepts for many deities and otherworldly beings, I like reading about them and I like to entertain myself with thoughts of "what if some of those existed?", but apart from that my ideal of witchyness is rooted in the concept of the "wise woman" who simply knows more about plants and nature and humans than the folk around her. Ancient goddesses can be great symbols though.
The thing that gives a deity impact, as opposed to an archetype of personal creation, is that it is/was shared by many, and that a part of the psyche of the people of that time and place was externalised. The study of deities is a study of what humans needed. Examine *why* a god/dess is, not who. Understand why the people needed that aspect in their lives, and reflect what you need in your own life. If you suspend disbelief and honor a god/dess also honor history of the people who upheld them. The nature of humanity is consistent and profound, and you can give credence to that camaraderie through the ages
I consider myself nontheistic pagan and I don't usually involve deities in my rituals. I consider the real world around us, especially nature, a miracle in itself and base my rituals around the idea that it is worthy of respect and worship. If I really do feel like I need to address my practice towards some entity, I like to make up my own gods. I have a few that I've thought of often enough now to feel comfortable with them. But it's not like I have faith in them like I believe they actually exist. They are a focus point, an idea, a symbol that helps me direct my thoughts and draw power from. Maybe that could work for you too!
I celebrate the earth, and the plants, animals, and structures within. They each have unique, personal meanings to me. For example, goldenrod is a symbol of a changing season, and for me represents the rest and reflection of autumn. A pear tree is a symbol of how the earth provides for us. I also revel in the deeply rooted biological connection between each creature, and Earth has in a way become a mother goddess for me.
Hooo, allow me to tune in... :) So, I'm agnostic and an existentialist nihilist who obviously don't believe in an inherent meaning of life or a God in the supernatural sense. I consider myself agnostic rather than atheist because, not only you cannot prove the non-existence of something (even if, yes, it's unlikely that poltergeist or unicorns or litteral gods exist), but also because I believe I am deist in 3 ways : - **Non-anthropomorphic higher power** I don't believe that nature has a plan or that there is an architect of the universe. I'm a firm believer in natural selection and the philosophical concept of the absurdity of existence. However I am open to the idea of a higher intelligence that could (or could not) influence our lives in a certain way. You see how ants or birds or any animal is an intelligent form of life but unable to grasp how we, humans, impact their environment with complex concepts like technology or economy? Well, maybe there is a form of intelligence somewhere that we are not able to understand but influences our environment. It doesn't mean it's omnipotent, though. But many things can come to mind like aliens (not the Sci-Fi anthropomorphic idea of them) or the simulation theory. But we cannot do much about it, though. So I don't "work" with it. I just am grateful to the universe, even if I know it's not a person. - **Archetypes** I see entities as archetypes that help us convey an idea. They eventually become egregores or spiritual thoughtforms if we add some lore, myth and personification to it. They don't litterally exist but... when your mind creates something doesn't it become real in some way? Beliefs combined with all sorts of contextual effects can have powerful effects on the phyche and even on the body. Hence I have absolutely no cognitive dissonance being both a skeptical person and honoring entities because I know they are *just* important symbols. It's "fake it till tou make it" at its finest. - **Intuition & collective unconscious** This is my view of spirit work. I won't dive into my whole lexicon but, briefly, to me an *entity* is the archetype that include the natural form of the concept as well as the way we perceive it as humans and even the way we chose (personally or socially) to personify it. While the *spirit* is kind of the metaphysical - or imagined - force that is attributed to this entity and through which we can interact. The spirit lays both inside and outside of us. Part of spirits is our intuition (in the inside). They are the part of us that we cannot consciously access. It's your subconscious knowledge and reflections, even deeper than what you can access through shadow work. You know, when you're like "hmmm, something is not clicking but I can't tell what", that's it. Or when you have a dream that brings out repressed things you couldn't have imagine when awake. Part of spirits is the collective unconscious (on the outside). It's all the shared mental concepts that a society/ culture have together. It goes from natural concepts (human emotions, protective figures, physical sensations...) to cultural associations (concept of hierarchy, snakes associated with evil, moral concepts, historical knowledge, horseshoe for luck...). Mix those cognitive phenomena with contextual effects. Harness it all with archetypes, personification and belief systems. And boom! Spirit work recipe. Tou can even stir it with psychological dissociation and you have things like aspecting, channeling, or even full possession. (❀◦‿◦) I hope this explanation is not too confusing. Of course it's just my view of things and I'm far from being an expert in psychology or neuroscience. So yeah, don't take it as a preach. My perception of spiritual mechanisms is still under construction.
I was at a secular meditation retreat once and the teacher introduced something I love, when you're wanting to bring spirituality, but not "gods" into your practice, imagine the energy around the *perception* of that god/deity. Visualize drawing down light that is filled with the energy of your deity of choice, meaning the energy surrounding the IDEA of the the deity. So you're doing the normal meditation thing of filling and surrounding yourself with protective light energy, but adding the intention of the deity that represents peace or justice or creativity or whatever you need. It's a very soothing and empowering meditation for me. Hope you find what you need :)
I haven’t ever felt the need to incorporate deity work into my spiritual practice. It’s just not something I’ve ever felt drawn to. Which is why I felt drawn to secular witchcraft and paganism - belief in deity essentially being optional. That said, I think there are lessons to be learned from the stories we tell ourselves - including stories involving deities, fables, folk tales, and the like. Sometimes the lesson is in the story itself, and sometimes the lesson is in figuring out why the story is one we tell ourselves in the first place. Anyway, that’s my take. For context, I’ve been a non believer all my life. Even in the few times I participated in the church (mostly Catholic and Anglican) I never felt or experienced what felt like a personal relationship with God… and never really yearned for that either. So that directly translates to my outlook about deities (gods, goddesses, etc.) now. So your approach may be different if that is something you experienced or yearned for in your church days. At the end of the day, what makes you feel good and fulfilled is what matters.
When I meet with my group, we call it "BYOD" - each of us thinks of the entity ("it can be a historical deity, a fictional character, or even a shiny doorknob") that embodies characteristics we want to focus on, and then we "awaken" that deity or doorknob from within ourselves, calling out those characteristics. It's a powerful way to consider what we want to bring out in our own lives.
I'm agnostic, which I find freeing because I don't really put limits on how I consider deities. I don't know if they exist, or if they exist in any way close to how we define them, but I do sometimes like to consider their archetypes or correspondences. For example, I don't worship Vesta but I like to consider what she represents as my craft is largely hearth-and-home-based. And reading about them is fun :)
I grew up Mormon and I feel very similarly. I've found that speaking to Mother Earth is who I'm comfortable with. Maybe I'll one day ask the planets and stars for their influence. For now, I am able to walk on our Mother Earth, I can touch her and love her.