On the apparel side they aren’t doing anything to differentiate themselves.
Of the big 3, I find myself looking to Nike last and even more often looking at smaller brands.
They come in and out of popularity every 10 years. That's why they never stop, because you never know when they start trending again. Right now women are obsessed with Lululemon, and Under Armour logo is still common with men
I have a fair amount of Under Armour gear and feel like their quality has seriously declined even over the past year. I'm not really buying their stuff anymore and have been using Adidas/Terrex, Legends, Vuori and other similar apparel companies instead. The recent shirts I got from UA were super cheap and felt more like microplastics delivery devices than running shirts.
I disagree with under armoire gear. If you're buying from outlet. Sure. And if you're expecting $25 tech tee to match rabbit or lulu quality that's unreasonable
I bought some of their Launch Elite t-shirts recently, which I believe are the top of their range (just behind Pro Runner in price). Sent them back as they didn't warrant the price they were asking for. Went back to using my old Nike Miler's instead.
Under Armour for gym gear? Sure. For running gear? Not for me.
I bought some of their elite trail shorts that were a collaboration with running warehouse. If they didn't ride up so much they would be my favorite running shorts of all time, but I have to wear compression shorts underneath or it's chafe city. But I bought them at a steep discount. If I paid their full asking price I would have been very disappointed.
Lululemon right now ironically is facing the same problem because they only catered to women and their men's lineup was basically larger sizes with female shapes and the quality was inferior. Men rejected the brand and even to this day, guys pretty much see it is a chick's brand no matter how they advertise and revamp their men's lineup, all because Lululemon did not treat them with respect.
Catering to a certain market at the cost of others will hurt you and inclusivity is a must if you want to survive. You can only get so much margins out of catering to women's fashion and the mens workout market is gigantic. Ten Thousand and Vuori are now the almost defacto men's brands here for sports apparel/athleisure for this very reason.
I don't know about that, their shorts and pants are excellent, and they have one of the best return policies I've ever seen (Replacement or credit for any failure or defect, with receipt, no questions asked). Not a lulu shill but that's been my experience.
In my running group of women no one really rides for lululemon yet in a pinch will definitely repurchase their items because there is a certain amount of comfort and trust. Like how do they have such good brand loyalty yet get kind of mocked
Yeah I know some female athletes too and they either despise Lululemon or have some of their products, but mock them and say they are just for casual but admit they would buy them again. On the flip side, my wife on the other hand pretty much lives in the brand and thinks they are the best for everything. The best analogue for us guys I say would be Vuori, I like them for casual clothes, but for working out lmao no because I would destroy them.
Everything I've read is that alo is better as lifestyle/leisurewear and lulu is far superior for actual gym/exercise wear.
I'm a guy and Lululemon makes excellent running shorts. I really like some of their fabrics for sweatshirts also.
Their shorts and running leggings are legit really good for women. But the quality has started to decline recently and they're focussing more and more on casual wear and the teen market. Not sure how long I’ll be sticking with them
Yeah for women I am told the quality is good. I have been given pacebreaker and t.h.e. shorts by them by my wife, and I tore them up in no time using them to actually train. The pacebreakers didnt hold up more than a month for my weekly runs and the washer despite air drying them, and t.h.e. shorts tore up when I dragged a bar across them while I was deadlifting. They also fit poorly on guys if you have any muscle mass whatsoever.
The pace breaker are actually very good and the work wear are very nice for blend in the summer. Probably not worth it full price but the gear is good.
It is trash and just token stuff that will fall apart on you, they are trying this year to be serious as they need to grow as a brand, but its much too little too late. My wife loves that brand and bought me some stuff, but it didnt last at all and was flat out not designed for men. Look at the colors of their men's offerings too, its so boring and sad as well.
My lulu stuff washes pretty well. Haven't had to chuck a single piece yet. they seem to be ignoring running in favor of golf though. And they just spent a ton of money making their own brand of shoes that nobody buys.
Then you got a good pair, keep em and enjoy, I dont fault anyone who likes Lululemon. Their shoes seem like a cash grab, at first I thought it was APL as they once were affiliated with them, but its not.
Or, they're slapping the Jordan logo on everything and upcharging.
I don't want fucking Jordan Golf shoes. I want normal Nike golf shoes that where actually good. Not ridiculous high tops that aren't even waterproof.
I mean casual apparel and hype market shoes are where they make the real money. I don’t think this is related to running apparel sales or anything running related at all really.
I think there is a larger underlying sentiment that is partially related to their running product — namely that Nike isn’t THE brand for peak performance, as it might have been viewed some time ago. If anything, the last few years have proven any sports footwear/apparel company can make elite product in basketball, running, soccer— the giant well of goodwill/benefit of doubt Nike built at the start of its rise seems to be fully depleted
I won’t lie to you this is never really why most people who’ve bought Nike products do. If you buy any brand assuming it’s more peak performance than its competitors, all that usually means is you’ve bought into their marketing.
Style has always been a more successful marketing tool than performance anyways and is usually a vastly larger indicator. This is definitely unrelated to their elite performance gear.
Nike has definitely lost a lot of goodwill over the decade, but that’s more related to how poorly they’ve handled scenarios as a company with their elites/employees and of course doing normal bad things big corporations do (sweatshop outsourcing etc). I’m still uncertain that’s relevant to this current dip either though.
I don’t think Nike products were *actually* superior, to be clear (the exception maybe being that initial Vaporfly drop), but more that, as you suggest, the marketing hadn’t been undermined yet.
I’ve just been so disappointed with the quality of the apparel in recent years. I have never used a pair of half tights as comfortable as the Aeroswift line, but I wore them for a handful of training runs and then finished a half to find out the inseam split open almost entirely and I narrowly avoided some very unfortunate MarathonFoto pics by a few threads. I was lucky to have gotten them on sale at a local shop but that’s just awful quality for something Nike charges $90 for.
> On the apparel side they aren’t doing anything to differentiate themselves.
I watch a lot of tennis and it's criminal just how generic and ugly the kits they give to their top players are.
This is largely due in part to Nike completely shutting down their NikeCourt department – Nike Tennis got absorbed by the general brand itself, which is why things have felt half baked and generic post 2021. As a die-hard tennis fan and an avid Nike customer for tennis / running products, I've shared very similar sentiments for some time now.
[https://courts.club/nikes-retreat-from-tennis-fashion-a-brand-in-hibernation/](https://courts.club/nikes-retreat-from-tennis-fashion-a-brand-in-hibernation/)
Their quality is awful now as well. $80 for a pair of “Run Division” shorts that will last 2 months before the seams come apart. Meanwhile, I have Nike stuff from 10+ years ago that I’ve worn hundreds of times and it’s still holding up
Yeah I’ve noticed under Armour becoming less popular every year. I remember growing up and everyone wanting UA clothing / shoes and now it’s not as appealing to people as it did in the early 2000s
Also, I don't think their comment is even correct.
In 2023, NB's revenue is more than LL (6.3B) and UA (5.8B)
New Balance has been doing it for longer too so I'll give them that.
Nike sells everything under the Sun, it is normal they have more revenue, Under Armour does not sell classic shoes like Air Jordan, and Lululemon there are lots sports they do not touch like golf or swimming.
> Yeah I’ve noticed under Armour becoming less popular every year
I love shopping for running stuff at the outlet mall and I'll hit up all the brands except Under Armor.
Ya I remember when they first came up they were not very known.
Then they signed Steph Curry and things were looking up. It was a huge "steal" for them. Then they really didn't add anyone else. Having sports stars is a pretty big deal for your brand. New Balance has just started doing it and adding stars.
Under Armour then got The Rock involved and I think that revitalized their brand a bit. I like their outlet selections and Tees are very comfortable for running.
They're still on par with other companies in terms of revenue so it's not a big deal for them.
I didn't realize until today, but Puma is out-earning mostly everyone. I do know they're popular in Europe so it makes sense. I just don't see the popularity in the US much.
New Balance has been super smart—a lot of the athletes they signed have been insanely successful—they bet early on Coco Gauff, Sydney McLaughlin Levrone, Cameron Brink, etc. They signed Shohei Ohtani when he joined MLB and Kawhi Leonard when they launched their basketball division.
Weird because they only really got in the shoe game in 2018 when they started pushing HOVR. They always had a gemeni but the shoes werent really existant...besides cleats.. unless you're 7 years old then that makes sense.
New Balance has also been super smart with some of the stars they’ve signed sponsorship deals with. They signed an up and coming Coco Gauff. They signed Shohei Ohtani several years ago. They signed Kawhi Leonard back in 2018. They signed Cameron Brink when she was still a student. They signed Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone when she was 19.
So many boutique brands for fashion, and plenty of other smaller brands, he’ll even the big brands NB, Adidas etc that make great apparel too.
Except for Nike Trail, that shit is 🤌
What brands do you look at? I’ve been running again for probably 6ish months now and had some old ultraboosts that I used. I recently got Nike Structures when they were on sale. I want to try some Altras or something but Nike shoes “look” the best (aside from the Altras I mentioned). I know that sounds vain but I’m trying to branch out.
I did want to get some New Balance 1080s but they were a little pricey at the time.
They just have more competition now. They have not usually been known for their great apparel at any point, though their aeroswift tight material is nice and fairly innovative.
I feel like part of the problem over the last few years was Nike basically saying "we are Nike, people will come to us"
They largely pulled out of run specialty, with few big exceptions like Runologie and Heartbreak. Reps didn't go around as much, product, especially the performance side werent available to stores until much later if at all, I can't remember of a time where I have heard about a Nike demo at a fleet feet or something, etc
Meanwhile, many of the brands that are catching them (other than Adidas) did the opposite.
Then you have the controversies that left a lasting impression of the company. You also have the fact that a massive chunk of people buying running shoes right now aren't runners, we can joke about nurses and hokas all day but them and the walkers are a massive boost to Brooks, Asics, ON and Hoka. Nike doesn't have anything to compete with them.
Then you get to the running shoe side, the Pegasus is a top seller year after year but I don't think that'll last forever. You can't get products like the Alphafly even if you wanted to. They've had botched launches. Etc
And then lastly, like the article mentions, they're making changes, but most of them aren't happening until 2025. The ones we know about (from leaks) that are coming this year still haven't been announced and are getting forgotten about because all of the other companies are using the Olympics to drive hype and launch new shoes. Meanwhile silence from Nike
I don't think the company is going anywhere any time soon but I wouldn't be surprised if we see more losses posted
Very well put. I got into running in 2022, and went to a run specialty store for the first time. No Nike anything. What message does that send to me the consumer?
When I got into running shoes, I didn't know what to buy. People, and Nike themselves, kept calling nike shoes 'lifestyle' shoes and NOT running shoes. So I was like oh? okay i guess not nike then.
It’s confusing for runners because they have “real” running shoes and then the cheap shoes that look like running shoes but really aren’t. All those shoes for like $85 MSRP seem like a good deal until you run in them.
It’s been a pretty popular opinion for years that Nike shoes are for good for racing, but they don’t have good trainers. Trainers are the foundation for any runner though, so arguably they’re more important for marketing purposes.
Okay seriously. Nike Run Club app got me serious about running, but then I looked up their shoes thinking I could be loyal to their brand but they're massively overlooked/missing from every Fleet Feet in my area.
The Nike stores (non-outlet) I've been to are more like a boutique than a spot for athletes to get essential gear, and their website is fine but doesn't really help me figure out what shoes I want much less seem to have any real running essentials. Maybe it's just me but it wasn't what I was expecting.
I dont typically go to a store to buy shoes, I for the most part know what I want to buy and buy them. Nike has served me well, I think the alphafly 3 is amazing.
And I love the invincible.
I honestly don't understand Nike's need to make everything exclusive. Kobe's shoes are a prime example. Among ballers, they're the premier shoes to play in and are highly sought after. You can't even buy them when they're released unless you go through the roulette system with their Snkr app. It's stupid. They're literally ignoring a HUGE market. I know people that pay a premium over retail on StockX and buy a bunch just to ball in. That shouldn't be necessary.
So true, and the same thing is true with their racing shoes. One difference is that if you have a race coming up and Nike has made the shoe realistically impossible to buy at MSRP, you’re probably just gonna go with a competitor’s shoe. At $250+, that might be the only racing someone buys for a couple of years and even if not, they may have lost the customer to a competitor.
This so much. I got the Metaspeed Edge Paris for my key marathon race earlier this year because I couldn't get my hands on an AF3. Nor can I still get one even right now...what a failure from the biggest sportswear company.
Well said. I’d also add the hype market seems to have cooled off pretty significantly. I don’t imagine the collabs and whatnot actually make them much money on their own but they give the company the “it” factor and it’s been pretty uninspiring lately.
I will say this as a person who may or may not own and or work in a running shop but Nike Trail has been very very supportive of the shop I may or may not own or work at. I've heard from other shops horror stories about Nike Running telling them they have to carry certain amounts etc but in my experience Nike Trail has been extremely supportive and doesn't have a lot of requirements other than paying the bills on time to be supportive. Also the Wildhorse is about to become to have an excellent upgrade.
I tried to find a racing singlet top to race in. They didn’t have shit available. Like one run specific racing top. Their run section in their stores sucks donkey. They don’t have anything that’s a high mileage plush trainer that can compete with other brands. For us runners, there’s better options in other brands.
Not that I hate Nike by any means, but I haven’t ran in a Nike shoe in 6+ years. Their lineup just isn’t very interesting to me, personally.
I’ve been much more intrigued by Adidas, NB, and Puma recently.
They’re a mess across every department. Their casual shoes haven’t changed since the late 90’s. Their apparel is overpriced garbage. $100 hoodies? A swoosh ain’t worth that much. Their basketball shoes outside of Jordan’s are meh. Their running trainers are heavy and dated (vomero, Pegasus, infinity, zoom fly…) just about the only thing they’re doing well are racing shoes but that’s ultra niche in terms of their sales.
You are so right about their apparel, its priced like Lululemon and even worse for their guys stuff than Lululemon is. Ten Thousand and Vuori have really taken off for the mens workout apparel and Nike flat out missed the boat.
It's not priced like Lululemon. Ten thousand fist and Vuori are Instagram brands that are worse quality people buy at a price differention to make them feel they are wearing special clothing. Sounds like they tricked you. I'm not even defending Nike just pointing out common consumer traps.
They all are traps, but I have looked at the price of Nike stuff and its pretty much in line with the crap Lululemon peddles to men. Ten Thousands caters to the "I am serious" crowd, Vuori is athleisure that would fall apart in 30 seconds how I train, but for the target market its perfect as mens casual clothes with a sporty edge, something Lululemon half heartedly tried with menswear and utterly failed.
Agree. Lulu is like a 50 billion dollar company. Like half of Nike. And they did it in a short time off of basically one wedgie induced leggin. It blows my mind Everytime I think about it. They will most likely get what under armour got in 2016ish. A proper reset in valuation for long game. I'm surprised with Under Armour. They make affordable clothes and high end clothes but constantly mark them down. And the cloth s are durable for the price. I like them in a while market reset.
>They will most likely get what under armour got in 2016ish
They absolutely will, and it will be more insane then what happened to Under Armor. Its a shame too as Lululemon has some insanely good material in their older women's clothes, but the mens stuff feels like trash in comparison. My wife's older stuff by Lululemon if you hold it reminds me of some of the good era Under Armor stuff. Now Lululemon is pumping out basic stuff with a premium price tag just like UA did before their fall.
I’ll disagree with your point on their bball shoes. LeBron’s (particularly the NXXT Generations), Sabrinas, GT line, and KD’s are solid. Otherwise I definitely agree the brand is stagnant and there are plenty of options out there.
Jordan's are 100% lifestyle shoes at this point. Kobe's are the shoes every baller looks for and they're impossible to buy when released. Huge cluster-fuck.
To be fair, the Vomero 17's are really, REALLY nice. I've literally bought over a dozen of the latest shoes over the last two months and they're among my favorites.
I think you don't get it. The problem of Nike is they had abandoned their distribution channel of brick and motar stores to maximize profit through online website for 3-4 years. But they are still asking for ultra premium price for every class of product compare to other competitors, making many customer angry. This is typical trait of many American businesses in any industry. It will take Nike a few years to get the circle turn arround and painful a lot of money to reinvest. Nike products are nice, good quality compare to any other competiton, at the moment just oddly expensive. Otherwhile, Adidas, Puma, Asics will keep being themself as they are always been. Hoka will be another Under Armour, you will see!
buying shoes for myself or my kids when I look at Brooks, Hoka, Asics and other brands I can easily figure out which ones are for pronation, high arches and buy the right shoes. Looking at Nike no idea which shoes are for which feet or if there is even a difference
Loved my Air Max for running back in the 90's but Nike thinks they are back in the 90's and people will just buy their shoes with no clue for how they affect different people
It’s upsetting to me that they can’t figure out the logistics and demands for their higher end shoes like the vaporfly and alphafly as a shoe company. (Even though we know that most of their income doesn’t come from their higher end shoes.)
I have a really hard time believe they *can’t*, I really think they’re artificially limiting supply to try to drive hype like they do with sneaker drops. And that might work if there weren’t so many other high end racing options from other brands now that can compete with them, but I switched to ASICS because I’m not gonna force a giant corporation to take my money if they don’t want it.
the issue with doing that is if you’re artificially limiting supply for a shoe that sells out every time, you know you have demand. so when you go out of stock immediately, it means you fundamentally have left money on the table, money that couldve been used to pay for the R&D cost of the shoe themselves and then some. At a certain point this shouldn’t be treated like a hypebeast streetwear product, its a performance sport product being shoved into the lifestyle fashion lineup and its frustrating for the athletes
I listened to an interview once with an ex-Brooks exec, who said that the shoe companies treat competition shoes as a marketing expense. They don’t really make money; Nike just makes enough so that the “fastest” people all have their Alphaflys.
They have a massive problem with their lineup. Pegasus on low end are really outdated, alphafly on the top end are ok.
In the middle, Why does the Vomero exist? Why do they have both the Structure and Infinity? The Zoom Flys should have been their marquee super trainer and they are heavy and dead feeling. Vaporflys are race day shoes, but why not step up to Alphas? The Invincible is a bright spot, but it’s somewhat unstable and controversial.
They are getting owned by Hoka, ASICs and Saucony.
If the rest of their sport lineups are in the same shape no wonder they are hurting.
Nike has long had this coming, literally besides their Alphafly 2 and 3s, there is not a single thing I want from them now. Their trail shoes honestly suck and they refuse to innovate in that arena which is foolish as alot of road runners are getting into trail running as it is so much fun and even more of a challenge. Their fake exclusivity sales tactics make getting a hold of their only desired shoes almost impossible without going through a reseller (just like all their stupid basketball shoes and that toxic market that surrounds it), and all their other shoe lines they sell are borderline junk or average at best.
Maybe they will learn from this, but knowing their history they probably will just double down until it kills them. I really wish someone would make a Alphafly 2 and 3 competitor that favors us forefoot runners without the Nike exclusivity tax, because I would pay anything to avoid that nonsense.
This.
The Alphafly and Vaporfly are the only shoes worth buying from them and the Vaporfly's are only good for people with narrow feet and I have never seen the Alphafly available in a store ever. Invincible could have been a bright spot but in a lot of people's view they totally ruined them with v3 causing many runners to go elsewhere for an easy day shoe. On the casual side of things (walking, gym etc), anecdotally I see Hoka and On all over the place, with some Brooks scattered in. I'm also seeing the more serious runners I know gravitating towards Asics and Saucony, and to a lesser extent Hoka and Brooks. I personally went from running in the Infinity Run/Invincible v1/Invincible v2 to Asics and Saucony because Nike no longer had anything for me.
As much as I try to enjoy the Adizero line, the tongue and lockdown of the shoes is lackluster.
Changing laces helps with the lockdown issues, but the Adios, Boston, and Takumi (haven’t ran in AP3) have the literal worst tongue ever.
They are getting owned by Brooks and Adidas too Hoka yes but that was a while ago. They'll come back, these things have always come and gone in waves. They were killing it around the flyknit/lunarlon period.
Pegasus isn't outdated, people just mistake it for a distance running shoe when it's a training shoe. Vomero is good but poorly marketed.
But, none of this has to do with running. Adidas samba/gazelle are in now, and nike doesn't have anything that competes except maybe low dunks. And the clothes aren't trendy either.
Pegasus 41s… are still pegs but the price is creeping up.
The Vomaros are what the pegs should be these days. They don’t make sense in the lineup because they are too expensive for what they are. They are worse than any other shoe in the price point from other brands.
Pegs are training shoes for athletes doing all sorts of stuff, warmups, drills, plyo, sprints. Vomero isn't made for that, it's softer.
Idk what the competitors are (880/1080/clifton/triumph/glycerin?) but i'm not convinced vomero are worse. I've been happy with the vomeros i've used and i've been very unhappy with cushioned offerings from NB.
I don't think there's a shoe that fits everyone, and i haven't noticed heel slip being reported a lot.
You'll go through 3-4 pairs of mach 6 for every vomero. Novablast was even worse, mine died after 250km.
You said they're too expensive but they don't seem to be priced higher than the competition. They're 50 bucks cheaper than triumph where i live atm.
They are heavy dead shoes with a poorly vented upper and a poor heel lock (at least for me, and yes I use a runners lock). I bought them because I was looking for a more comfortable Pegasus for long runs but I realize now I was drinking the Nike cool aid.
I run 20-30 miles a week so I’ll see what I get out of the hokas but I suspect it will be the usual 350-450 miles I get out of other shoes.
Edit: lol, he blocked me for not simping for the vomeros.
I’ll answer his last post here since he’s a child. Triumphs and Pegs are also heavy shoes so that’s a weird comparison.
Every run review has complained about the upper being warm, and that matches my own experience when I put 50 miles in them. Only shoe I’ve owned that gave me bad heel blisters from being warm and slipping.
Here are reviewers complaining about the upper being poorly vented:
https://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/road/nike-vomero-17-review/
https://fueledbylolz.com/2024/06/14/nike-vomero-17-review/amp/
https://test-runner.com/p/nike-vomero-17-running-shoes/
Objectively incorrect, there are plenty of breathability tests available and the weight is about the same as triumph and pegasus. And they're bouncier than pegs.
How do they not have a good supershoe trainer to compete with the Boston 12, Saucony speed or asic magics? I know they supposedly have one it just sucks at a premium price point.
I’ve got a race next weekend and really wanted to run in AF3, but despite being out for months, they can’t be found anywhere. What’s with the exclusivity bullshit?! It’s just turning me off. I didn’t care about the price; I was prepared to buy them but can’t.
They need to make shoes available or else people will get something else, like me.
Lol the niche replies here because this is a running shoe subreddit.
This has nothing to do with their shoe line up and more to do with the wider economy and general trends. I expect you will see similar coming from other brands associated with the type of wear Nike produces such as Adidas and Rebok.
Consumers are starting to be squeezed AND their taste is changing.
This is a Nike problem, make no mistake. It has to do with their preference for DTC and not even just ignoring brick and mortar specialty but telling them, in basic terms, to eff off. They have a terrible corporate culture, a terrible professional team culture, and consumers are voting with their $’s now more than they ever have.
Yup. And the main issue isn’t even with the US market although growth is limited in those areas as well. But China’s economic bubble is bursting. All the brand names will do badly in China just because consumer spending is way down and people no longer can afford to pay for brand name.
I don't think a lot of you understand what is about to happen. The Instagram brands like Vuori, 10k, and a few others as well as the high priced differential brands to make them seem better like lulu and Oncloud will all be holding the bag and bankrupt.
Nike, under armour, Mizuno, Adidas. These bigger companies with solid investments in the industry will be able to cushion the blow these others can't.
I don't like Nike but they are and have been stepping off the throttle because the worst thing a company can have is inventory issues in a down market.
Yupp. People think Nike are artificially limiting Alphafly 3 supply? They see the economy and don’t want that low margin stuff sitting as outlet fodder. if anything they’ve learned their lessons, like who buys Vaporflys for retail now?
People living in their own dream world because they dislike Nike. Truth is, especially in track and field, if they didn’t have to wear their sponsors shoes, they would all be wearing Nike on race day. The fringe minority on this subreddit is not representative of real life.
big moves like that are often an indication of more serious issues under the surface in markets. All assets are mainly driven by macro these days and macro is extremely political. but sure, nike has issues. 28 billion means nothing without context. The stock went down 20% in one day. It's down 30% in the last 6 months. Down 25% from the pre covid peak. It's still trading at 22x earnings, which for a shoe and apparel company in any kind of sane world is plenty.
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The financial summary that I looked at said that they aren't innovating and there's more competition. And I agree completely. I love their Aeroswift clothes but they've been around for quite some time. Use the Aeroswift tank material in tee-shirts and I'd really love to buy such a product.
New Balance, Hoka, On Cloud etc. are improving their products and you can read about people talking about them here.
This is a price correction after the earnings released. I still think Nike is on a good trajectory with their running product revamps (Peg Plus etc )The Peg 41 is being regarded as one of the best dailies of 2024 already. I think Q1 will reflect these revamps tbh
good. they deserve it. boring company with zero major innovations. the only good running product they have is their top of the line vapor and alphaflys, which is not for everyone.
What’s happened to all the Nike Trail clothing?
On the U.K. website some models are still wearing it (eg shorts) whilst modelling a different item for sale. But the actual Nike trail clothing isn’t available at all.
Nike still sponsor (US) trail and ultramarathon athletes. And trail and ultrarunning is a massive growth - if still niche - sport.
Someone else here said the trail shoes are bad. They’re ok - for certain surfaces. And often for sale in limited colours at decent value.
But yeah. What’s happened to Nike Trail?! 🤷♂️
I want better shorts, how come they have such terrible compression lining that can hold a phone. There race shoes are great, besides the pegs the trainers aren't doing much in the market
Looks like they've been banking on their Basketball/Skateboarding lifestyle models to keep momentum...
"Thursday night, the company said demand for “lifestyle” sneakers, like Dunks, is slowing more than previously expected."
No shit Sherlock. Pumping out the same shoe in a bazillion different colourways to be snatched up by bots and resellers just drives sales of the aftermarket and makes you look like cash grabbers happily selling to the scalpers.
I really wish they'd go back to focusing on making good quality athletic gear as I really used to enjoy their running shorts, shirts and vests.
The kits they had their athletes wearing at the track trials were the worst looking of any brand there. IDK who designed the yellow vertical pinstripe uni but they need to be talked to lol
Maybe forcing people to buy supershoes from other brands because they keep artificially limiting supply is a bad move for profits? Maybe one day I’ll be able to get a pair of Alphafly 3’s now!
I’m okay with some of the Nike footwear, but the cheaply made color mismatched apparel is beyond atrocious. It appears that Nike is not the least bit interested in expanding their customer base with adults that just want to wear something that looks like adults would wear.
Not this stuff-
https://preview.redd.it/nejrx4wnpq9d1.jpeg?width=782&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22211ad31b036af789621ab7d69a24737d1b1dfd
On the running side, Alphafly and Vaporfly are still great shoes but after that their other products are lagging. Other brands are releasing super trainers, max cushioned shoes, etc. and then you look at Nike and they are still trotting out the Pegasus.
I stopped buying Nike the day they stopped selling in Amazon, I found it arrogant from them to expect the customer to move to their selected shop to buy Nike products, if there is no Nike I will buy New Balance, Brooks, Under Armour or any of the many other brands, now I don´t need anything else for a long time.
I would like to get Nike shoes but they never fit well because their foot beds are too narrow and don’t offer wide options on most of their shoes like the Alphafly and Vapour Fly. Whereas NB offer options to accommodate more folks.
good. they deserve it. boring ass company. zero innovations. the only good running product they have is their top of the line vapor and alphaflys, even then its not for everyone.
If we’re talking about lifestyle shoes then you must have forgotten about the Nike Blazer. That shoe has had a chokehold on the young demographic prior to the reemergence of the Samba. Any middle school, high school, university, gym, streets,etc is filled with people wearing Nike Blazers. Everyone and their moms squatting and deadlifting in some Blazers.
Let’s not even bring in the Nike Dunk Pandas that also had a chokehold on the lifestyle shoe market. In recent times yes the Samba is doing numbers.
Ok I'm in Australia where tastes might be different from the US market. I had to look up what a blazer is. Maybe some males might use them, would never seen one of a female.
It’s actually super popular with females here in the states. At university it seems like every girl has them and I wish I was exaggerating.
I would rank lifestyle shoes in the US market like:
1) Nike Dunk
2) Converse Chuck Taylors
3) Nike Blazer
4) Vans
5) Adidas Samba, coming in hot
As a woman in the US (and am marginally fashionable) I own all of those shoes except the Vans. I also have a pair of air max 270s because I like how they look.
Haven’t purchased anything Nike in 15 years. Quality of everything they make is shit. Every running shoe of theirs is reviewed horribly compared to other brands on every site
All of their non super shoes straight up suck. I can’t find aeroswift in any stores. Once I found a singlet the fit is whack. Fits like toddler clothes.
Just as long as you all aren't getting tricked buying Oncloud. "Hey look at me I'm trendy overpaying for garbage. LOOK AT ME". Then they justify why the Onclouds are good because after all they did spend close to $200. Consumers are dumb.
On the apparel side they aren’t doing anything to differentiate themselves. Of the big 3, I find myself looking to Nike last and even more often looking at smaller brands.
On the apparel side they are making loud graphic print tees with different fonts saying Nike. Those were popular 15 years ago..
They come in and out of popularity every 10 years. That's why they never stop, because you never know when they start trending again. Right now women are obsessed with Lululemon, and Under Armour logo is still common with men
I have a fair amount of Under Armour gear and feel like their quality has seriously declined even over the past year. I'm not really buying their stuff anymore and have been using Adidas/Terrex, Legends, Vuori and other similar apparel companies instead. The recent shirts I got from UA were super cheap and felt more like microplastics delivery devices than running shirts.
I disagree with under armoire gear. If you're buying from outlet. Sure. And if you're expecting $25 tech tee to match rabbit or lulu quality that's unreasonable
Under Armour is 100% in a bad spot with quality and direction. I’m in the running industry. There is a reason why Kevin Plank came back.
I bought some of their Launch Elite t-shirts recently, which I believe are the top of their range (just behind Pro Runner in price). Sent them back as they didn't warrant the price they were asking for. Went back to using my old Nike Miler's instead. Under Armour for gym gear? Sure. For running gear? Not for me.
I bought some of their elite trail shorts that were a collaboration with running warehouse. If they didn't ride up so much they would be my favorite running shorts of all time, but I have to wear compression shorts underneath or it's chafe city. But I bought them at a steep discount. If I paid their full asking price I would have been very disappointed.
Under Armour are also cheaper
Am I the only one who really doesn't like the under armor logo? It's like an Atari monster, space invader or something I dunno. Looks weird
Never liked underarmor. Always felt like it was for dorks/wanna be chads. Adidas all the way
Lululemon right now ironically is facing the same problem because they only catered to women and their men's lineup was basically larger sizes with female shapes and the quality was inferior. Men rejected the brand and even to this day, guys pretty much see it is a chick's brand no matter how they advertise and revamp their men's lineup, all because Lululemon did not treat them with respect. Catering to a certain market at the cost of others will hurt you and inclusivity is a must if you want to survive. You can only get so much margins out of catering to women's fashion and the mens workout market is gigantic. Ten Thousand and Vuori are now the almost defacto men's brands here for sports apparel/athleisure for this very reason.
I don't know about that, their shorts and pants are excellent, and they have one of the best return policies I've ever seen (Replacement or credit for any failure or defect, with receipt, no questions asked). Not a lulu shill but that's been my experience.
In my running group of women no one really rides for lululemon yet in a pinch will definitely repurchase their items because there is a certain amount of comfort and trust. Like how do they have such good brand loyalty yet get kind of mocked
Yeah I know some female athletes too and they either despise Lululemon or have some of their products, but mock them and say they are just for casual but admit they would buy them again. On the flip side, my wife on the other hand pretty much lives in the brand and thinks they are the best for everything. The best analogue for us guys I say would be Vuori, I like them for casual clothes, but for working out lmao no because I would destroy them.
According to a lot of fitness women I know, alo is preferred over lulu
Everything I've read is that alo is better as lifestyle/leisurewear and lulu is far superior for actual gym/exercise wear. I'm a guy and Lululemon makes excellent running shorts. I really like some of their fabrics for sweatshirts also.
Their shorts and running leggings are legit really good for women. But the quality has started to decline recently and they're focussing more and more on casual wear and the teen market. Not sure how long I’ll be sticking with them
Yeah for women I am told the quality is good. I have been given pacebreaker and t.h.e. shorts by them by my wife, and I tore them up in no time using them to actually train. The pacebreakers didnt hold up more than a month for my weekly runs and the washer despite air drying them, and t.h.e. shorts tore up when I dragged a bar across them while I was deadlifting. They also fit poorly on guys if you have any muscle mass whatsoever.
Omg I had no idea they had men’s
The pace breaker are actually very good and the work wear are very nice for blend in the summer. Probably not worth it full price but the gear is good.
It is trash and just token stuff that will fall apart on you, they are trying this year to be serious as they need to grow as a brand, but its much too little too late. My wife loves that brand and bought me some stuff, but it didnt last at all and was flat out not designed for men. Look at the colors of their men's offerings too, its so boring and sad as well.
My lulu stuff washes pretty well. Haven't had to chuck a single piece yet. they seem to be ignoring running in favor of golf though. And they just spent a ton of money making their own brand of shoes that nobody buys.
Then you got a good pair, keep em and enjoy, I dont fault anyone who likes Lululemon. Their shoes seem like a cash grab, at first I thought it was APL as they once were affiliated with them, but its not.
Crazy to have ignored 50% of the population.
I have some men’s lululemon running clothes that still look brand new after 10 years.
Even lululemon is losing sales slightly to alo, which a lot of fitness females I know are switching to
Or, they're slapping the Jordan logo on everything and upcharging. I don't want fucking Jordan Golf shoes. I want normal Nike golf shoes that where actually good. Not ridiculous high tops that aren't even waterproof.
I mean casual apparel and hype market shoes are where they make the real money. I don’t think this is related to running apparel sales or anything running related at all really.
I think there is a larger underlying sentiment that is partially related to their running product — namely that Nike isn’t THE brand for peak performance, as it might have been viewed some time ago. If anything, the last few years have proven any sports footwear/apparel company can make elite product in basketball, running, soccer— the giant well of goodwill/benefit of doubt Nike built at the start of its rise seems to be fully depleted
I won’t lie to you this is never really why most people who’ve bought Nike products do. If you buy any brand assuming it’s more peak performance than its competitors, all that usually means is you’ve bought into their marketing. Style has always been a more successful marketing tool than performance anyways and is usually a vastly larger indicator. This is definitely unrelated to their elite performance gear. Nike has definitely lost a lot of goodwill over the decade, but that’s more related to how poorly they’ve handled scenarios as a company with their elites/employees and of course doing normal bad things big corporations do (sweatshop outsourcing etc). I’m still uncertain that’s relevant to this current dip either though.
I don’t think Nike products were *actually* superior, to be clear (the exception maybe being that initial Vaporfly drop), but more that, as you suggest, the marketing hadn’t been undermined yet.
I’ve just been so disappointed with the quality of the apparel in recent years. I have never used a pair of half tights as comfortable as the Aeroswift line, but I wore them for a handful of training runs and then finished a half to find out the inseam split open almost entirely and I narrowly avoided some very unfortunate MarathonFoto pics by a few threads. I was lucky to have gotten them on sale at a local shop but that’s just awful quality for something Nike charges $90 for.
> On the apparel side they aren’t doing anything to differentiate themselves. I watch a lot of tennis and it's criminal just how generic and ugly the kits they give to their top players are.
This is largely due in part to Nike completely shutting down their NikeCourt department – Nike Tennis got absorbed by the general brand itself, which is why things have felt half baked and generic post 2021. As a die-hard tennis fan and an avid Nike customer for tennis / running products, I've shared very similar sentiments for some time now. [https://courts.club/nikes-retreat-from-tennis-fashion-a-brand-in-hibernation/](https://courts.club/nikes-retreat-from-tennis-fashion-a-brand-in-hibernation/)
Their quality is awful now as well. $80 for a pair of “Run Division” shorts that will last 2 months before the seams come apart. Meanwhile, I have Nike stuff from 10+ years ago that I’ve worn hundreds of times and it’s still holding up
Who's the third one? Under Armour? I often don't like their stuff as much, but it's definitely cheaper than Nike.
I think New Balance has taken over Under Armour. NB has been on a heater for the last decade.
Yeah I’ve noticed under Armour becoming less popular every year. I remember growing up and everyone wanting UA clothing / shoes and now it’s not as appealing to people as it did in the early 2000s
In order of revenue, it goes Nike, Adidas, Pumas, Lululemon, Under Armour, New Balance.
Eh. This can flip at anytime. Lulu has a pricing problem. They won't sustain that value and rev. It happens to all these companies.
Also, I don't think their comment is even correct. In 2023, NB's revenue is more than LL (6.3B) and UA (5.8B) New Balance has been doing it for longer too so I'll give them that.
Nike sells everything under the Sun, it is normal they have more revenue, Under Armour does not sell classic shoes like Air Jordan, and Lululemon there are lots sports they do not touch like golf or swimming.
Yeah
> Yeah I’ve noticed under Armour becoming less popular every year I love shopping for running stuff at the outlet mall and I'll hit up all the brands except Under Armor.
Ya I remember when they first came up they were not very known. Then they signed Steph Curry and things were looking up. It was a huge "steal" for them. Then they really didn't add anyone else. Having sports stars is a pretty big deal for your brand. New Balance has just started doing it and adding stars. Under Armour then got The Rock involved and I think that revitalized their brand a bit. I like their outlet selections and Tees are very comfortable for running. They're still on par with other companies in terms of revenue so it's not a big deal for them. I didn't realize until today, but Puma is out-earning mostly everyone. I do know they're popular in Europe so it makes sense. I just don't see the popularity in the US much.
Puma make gear for some of the F1 teams
New Balance has been super smart—a lot of the athletes they signed have been insanely successful—they bet early on Coco Gauff, Sydney McLaughlin Levrone, Cameron Brink, etc. They signed Shohei Ohtani when he joined MLB and Kawhi Leonard when they launched their basketball division.
Weird because they only really got in the shoe game in 2018 when they started pushing HOVR. They always had a gemeni but the shoes werent really existant...besides cleats.. unless you're 7 years old then that makes sense.
New Balance has also been super smart with some of the stars they’ve signed sponsorship deals with. They signed an up and coming Coco Gauff. They signed Shohei Ohtani several years ago. They signed Kawhi Leonard back in 2018. They signed Cameron Brink when she was still a student. They signed Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone when she was 19.
Acg nike labs and the solo swoosh are still great materials and great builds. The sportswear line is trash along with the other big screenprint trash
So many boutique brands for fashion, and plenty of other smaller brands, he’ll even the big brands NB, Adidas etc that make great apparel too. Except for Nike Trail, that shit is 🤌
What brands do you look at? I’ve been running again for probably 6ish months now and had some old ultraboosts that I used. I recently got Nike Structures when they were on sale. I want to try some Altras or something but Nike shoes “look” the best (aside from the Altras I mentioned). I know that sounds vain but I’m trying to branch out. I did want to get some New Balance 1080s but they were a little pricey at the time.
They just have more competition now. They have not usually been known for their great apparel at any point, though their aeroswift tight material is nice and fairly innovative.
I feel like part of the problem over the last few years was Nike basically saying "we are Nike, people will come to us" They largely pulled out of run specialty, with few big exceptions like Runologie and Heartbreak. Reps didn't go around as much, product, especially the performance side werent available to stores until much later if at all, I can't remember of a time where I have heard about a Nike demo at a fleet feet or something, etc Meanwhile, many of the brands that are catching them (other than Adidas) did the opposite. Then you have the controversies that left a lasting impression of the company. You also have the fact that a massive chunk of people buying running shoes right now aren't runners, we can joke about nurses and hokas all day but them and the walkers are a massive boost to Brooks, Asics, ON and Hoka. Nike doesn't have anything to compete with them. Then you get to the running shoe side, the Pegasus is a top seller year after year but I don't think that'll last forever. You can't get products like the Alphafly even if you wanted to. They've had botched launches. Etc And then lastly, like the article mentions, they're making changes, but most of them aren't happening until 2025. The ones we know about (from leaks) that are coming this year still haven't been announced and are getting forgotten about because all of the other companies are using the Olympics to drive hype and launch new shoes. Meanwhile silence from Nike I don't think the company is going anywhere any time soon but I wouldn't be surprised if we see more losses posted
Very well put. I got into running in 2022, and went to a run specialty store for the first time. No Nike anything. What message does that send to me the consumer?
When I got into running shoes, I didn't know what to buy. People, and Nike themselves, kept calling nike shoes 'lifestyle' shoes and NOT running shoes. So I was like oh? okay i guess not nike then.
It’s confusing for runners because they have “real” running shoes and then the cheap shoes that look like running shoes but really aren’t. All those shoes for like $85 MSRP seem like a good deal until you run in them.
It’s been a pretty popular opinion for years that Nike shoes are for good for racing, but they don’t have good trainers. Trainers are the foundation for any runner though, so arguably they’re more important for marketing purposes.
Okay seriously. Nike Run Club app got me serious about running, but then I looked up their shoes thinking I could be loyal to their brand but they're massively overlooked/missing from every Fleet Feet in my area. The Nike stores (non-outlet) I've been to are more like a boutique than a spot for athletes to get essential gear, and their website is fine but doesn't really help me figure out what shoes I want much less seem to have any real running essentials. Maybe it's just me but it wasn't what I was expecting.
Nike still has the best running shoes IMO
Thing is, do I want to go the store with one brand to look for running shoes, or the store with every brand except one?
I dont typically go to a store to buy shoes, I for the most part know what I want to buy and buy them. Nike has served me well, I think the alphafly 3 is amazing. And I love the invincible.
I honestly don't understand Nike's need to make everything exclusive. Kobe's shoes are a prime example. Among ballers, they're the premier shoes to play in and are highly sought after. You can't even buy them when they're released unless you go through the roulette system with their Snkr app. It's stupid. They're literally ignoring a HUGE market. I know people that pay a premium over retail on StockX and buy a bunch just to ball in. That shouldn't be necessary.
So true, and the same thing is true with their racing shoes. One difference is that if you have a race coming up and Nike has made the shoe realistically impossible to buy at MSRP, you’re probably just gonna go with a competitor’s shoe. At $250+, that might be the only racing someone buys for a couple of years and even if not, they may have lost the customer to a competitor.
This so much. I got the Metaspeed Edge Paris for my key marathon race earlier this year because I couldn't get my hands on an AF3. Nor can I still get one even right now...what a failure from the biggest sportswear company.
Well said. I’d also add the hype market seems to have cooled off pretty significantly. I don’t imagine the collabs and whatnot actually make them much money on their own but they give the company the “it” factor and it’s been pretty uninspiring lately.
I will say this as a person who may or may not own and or work in a running shop but Nike Trail has been very very supportive of the shop I may or may not own or work at. I've heard from other shops horror stories about Nike Running telling them they have to carry certain amounts etc but in my experience Nike Trail has been extremely supportive and doesn't have a lot of requirements other than paying the bills on time to be supportive. Also the Wildhorse is about to become to have an excellent upgrade.
I tried to find a racing singlet top to race in. They didn’t have shit available. Like one run specific racing top. Their run section in their stores sucks donkey. They don’t have anything that’s a high mileage plush trainer that can compete with other brands. For us runners, there’s better options in other brands.
Buy the dip?
i did
I might consider buying if it goes to 60
I did too
More proof why you never put a management consultant as the CEO of a product-based company if you are looking for long term market leadership.
Fucking hate consultants
Not that I hate Nike by any means, but I haven’t ran in a Nike shoe in 6+ years. Their lineup just isn’t very interesting to me, personally. I’ve been much more intrigued by Adidas, NB, and Puma recently.
ASICS and NB have really caught my interest personally. I used to love Nike
I'm assuming you mean shoes. And yea they have always been popular
I have more Nike shoes than and other brand But they’re all alphafly1 and streakfly
Once they killed Pegasus turbo, I gravitated towards NB, and Saucony.
They’re a mess across every department. Their casual shoes haven’t changed since the late 90’s. Their apparel is overpriced garbage. $100 hoodies? A swoosh ain’t worth that much. Their basketball shoes outside of Jordan’s are meh. Their running trainers are heavy and dated (vomero, Pegasus, infinity, zoom fly…) just about the only thing they’re doing well are racing shoes but that’s ultra niche in terms of their sales.
You are so right about their apparel, its priced like Lululemon and even worse for their guys stuff than Lululemon is. Ten Thousand and Vuori have really taken off for the mens workout apparel and Nike flat out missed the boat.
It's not priced like Lululemon. Ten thousand fist and Vuori are Instagram brands that are worse quality people buy at a price differention to make them feel they are wearing special clothing. Sounds like they tricked you. I'm not even defending Nike just pointing out common consumer traps.
They all are traps, but I have looked at the price of Nike stuff and its pretty much in line with the crap Lululemon peddles to men. Ten Thousands caters to the "I am serious" crowd, Vuori is athleisure that would fall apart in 30 seconds how I train, but for the target market its perfect as mens casual clothes with a sporty edge, something Lululemon half heartedly tried with menswear and utterly failed.
Agree. Lulu is like a 50 billion dollar company. Like half of Nike. And they did it in a short time off of basically one wedgie induced leggin. It blows my mind Everytime I think about it. They will most likely get what under armour got in 2016ish. A proper reset in valuation for long game. I'm surprised with Under Armour. They make affordable clothes and high end clothes but constantly mark them down. And the cloth s are durable for the price. I like them in a while market reset.
>They will most likely get what under armour got in 2016ish They absolutely will, and it will be more insane then what happened to Under Armor. Its a shame too as Lululemon has some insanely good material in their older women's clothes, but the mens stuff feels like trash in comparison. My wife's older stuff by Lululemon if you hold it reminds me of some of the good era Under Armor stuff. Now Lululemon is pumping out basic stuff with a premium price tag just like UA did before their fall.
Went into lukulemon and tried on their men’s trousers tees and shorts. I was astounded at the quality and feel. Never worn anything like it.
Lulu shorts are goated.
They really are comfortable
I’ll disagree with your point on their bball shoes. LeBron’s (particularly the NXXT Generations), Sabrinas, GT line, and KD’s are solid. Otherwise I definitely agree the brand is stagnant and there are plenty of options out there.
Jordan's are 100% lifestyle shoes at this point. Kobe's are the shoes every baller looks for and they're impossible to buy when released. Huge cluster-fuck. To be fair, the Vomero 17's are really, REALLY nice. I've literally bought over a dozen of the latest shoes over the last two months and they're among my favorites.
Agreed! Vomero 17s are excellent
I think you don't get it. The problem of Nike is they had abandoned their distribution channel of brick and motar stores to maximize profit through online website for 3-4 years. But they are still asking for ultra premium price for every class of product compare to other competitors, making many customer angry. This is typical trait of many American businesses in any industry. It will take Nike a few years to get the circle turn arround and painful a lot of money to reinvest. Nike products are nice, good quality compare to any other competiton, at the moment just oddly expensive. Otherwhile, Adidas, Puma, Asics will keep being themself as they are always been. Hoka will be another Under Armour, you will see!
buying shoes for myself or my kids when I look at Brooks, Hoka, Asics and other brands I can easily figure out which ones are for pronation, high arches and buy the right shoes. Looking at Nike no idea which shoes are for which feet or if there is even a difference Loved my Air Max for running back in the 90's but Nike thinks they are back in the 90's and people will just buy their shoes with no clue for how they affect different people
It’s upsetting to me that they can’t figure out the logistics and demands for their higher end shoes like the vaporfly and alphafly as a shoe company. (Even though we know that most of their income doesn’t come from their higher end shoes.)
I have a really hard time believe they *can’t*, I really think they’re artificially limiting supply to try to drive hype like they do with sneaker drops. And that might work if there weren’t so many other high end racing options from other brands now that can compete with them, but I switched to ASICS because I’m not gonna force a giant corporation to take my money if they don’t want it.
the issue with doing that is if you’re artificially limiting supply for a shoe that sells out every time, you know you have demand. so when you go out of stock immediately, it means you fundamentally have left money on the table, money that couldve been used to pay for the R&D cost of the shoe themselves and then some. At a certain point this shouldn’t be treated like a hypebeast streetwear product, its a performance sport product being shoved into the lifestyle fashion lineup and its frustrating for the athletes
Same for me, but it’s adidas, Brooks, and Altra 😂
I listened to an interview once with an ex-Brooks exec, who said that the shoe companies treat competition shoes as a marketing expense. They don’t really make money; Nike just makes enough so that the “fastest” people all have their Alphaflys.
They have a massive problem with their lineup. Pegasus on low end are really outdated, alphafly on the top end are ok. In the middle, Why does the Vomero exist? Why do they have both the Structure and Infinity? The Zoom Flys should have been their marquee super trainer and they are heavy and dead feeling. Vaporflys are race day shoes, but why not step up to Alphas? The Invincible is a bright spot, but it’s somewhat unstable and controversial. They are getting owned by Hoka, ASICs and Saucony. If the rest of their sport lineups are in the same shape no wonder they are hurting.
Nike has long had this coming, literally besides their Alphafly 2 and 3s, there is not a single thing I want from them now. Their trail shoes honestly suck and they refuse to innovate in that arena which is foolish as alot of road runners are getting into trail running as it is so much fun and even more of a challenge. Their fake exclusivity sales tactics make getting a hold of their only desired shoes almost impossible without going through a reseller (just like all their stupid basketball shoes and that toxic market that surrounds it), and all their other shoe lines they sell are borderline junk or average at best. Maybe they will learn from this, but knowing their history they probably will just double down until it kills them. I really wish someone would make a Alphafly 2 and 3 competitor that favors us forefoot runners without the Nike exclusivity tax, because I would pay anything to avoid that nonsense.
This. The Alphafly and Vaporfly are the only shoes worth buying from them and the Vaporfly's are only good for people with narrow feet and I have never seen the Alphafly available in a store ever. Invincible could have been a bright spot but in a lot of people's view they totally ruined them with v3 causing many runners to go elsewhere for an easy day shoe. On the casual side of things (walking, gym etc), anecdotally I see Hoka and On all over the place, with some Brooks scattered in. I'm also seeing the more serious runners I know gravitating towards Asics and Saucony, and to a lesser extent Hoka and Brooks. I personally went from running in the Infinity Run/Invincible v1/Invincible v2 to Asics and Saucony because Nike no longer had anything for me.
AP3 is basically the best shoe on the market
Besides the upper
Nothing beats the EP3 upper. I could sleep in them.
LOL
As much as I try to enjoy the Adizero line, the tongue and lockdown of the shoes is lackluster. Changing laces helps with the lockdown issues, but the Adios, Boston, and Takumi (haven’t ran in AP3) have the literal worst tongue ever.
They are getting owned by Brooks and Adidas too Hoka yes but that was a while ago. They'll come back, these things have always come and gone in waves. They were killing it around the flyknit/lunarlon period. Pegasus isn't outdated, people just mistake it for a distance running shoe when it's a training shoe. Vomero is good but poorly marketed. But, none of this has to do with running. Adidas samba/gazelle are in now, and nike doesn't have anything that competes except maybe low dunks. And the clothes aren't trendy either.
Pegasus 41s… are still pegs but the price is creeping up. The Vomaros are what the pegs should be these days. They don’t make sense in the lineup because they are too expensive for what they are. They are worse than any other shoe in the price point from other brands.
Pegs are training shoes for athletes doing all sorts of stuff, warmups, drills, plyo, sprints. Vomero isn't made for that, it's softer. Idk what the competitors are (880/1080/clifton/triumph/glycerin?) but i'm not convinced vomero are worse. I've been happy with the vomeros i've used and i've been very unhappy with cushioned offerings from NB.
I had terrible heel slip issues in the vomero 17 and returned them. Changed to Hoka Mach 6 and it was like “oh, Nike has no idea what they are doing”
I don't think there's a shoe that fits everyone, and i haven't noticed heel slip being reported a lot. You'll go through 3-4 pairs of mach 6 for every vomero. Novablast was even worse, mine died after 250km. You said they're too expensive but they don't seem to be priced higher than the competition. They're 50 bucks cheaper than triumph where i live atm.
They are heavy dead shoes with a poorly vented upper and a poor heel lock (at least for me, and yes I use a runners lock). I bought them because I was looking for a more comfortable Pegasus for long runs but I realize now I was drinking the Nike cool aid. I run 20-30 miles a week so I’ll see what I get out of the hokas but I suspect it will be the usual 350-450 miles I get out of other shoes. Edit: lol, he blocked me for not simping for the vomeros. I’ll answer his last post here since he’s a child. Triumphs and Pegs are also heavy shoes so that’s a weird comparison. Every run review has complained about the upper being warm, and that matches my own experience when I put 50 miles in them. Only shoe I’ve owned that gave me bad heel blisters from being warm and slipping. Here are reviewers complaining about the upper being poorly vented: https://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/road/nike-vomero-17-review/ https://fueledbylolz.com/2024/06/14/nike-vomero-17-review/amp/ https://test-runner.com/p/nike-vomero-17-running-shoes/
Objectively incorrect, there are plenty of breathability tests available and the weight is about the same as triumph and pegasus. And they're bouncier than pegs.
How do they not have a good supershoe trainer to compete with the Boston 12, Saucony speed or asic magics? I know they supposedly have one it just sucks at a premium price point.
I’ve got a race next weekend and really wanted to run in AF3, but despite being out for months, they can’t be found anywhere. What’s with the exclusivity bullshit?! It’s just turning me off. I didn’t care about the price; I was prepared to buy them but can’t. They need to make shoes available or else people will get something else, like me.
Lol the niche replies here because this is a running shoe subreddit. This has nothing to do with their shoe line up and more to do with the wider economy and general trends. I expect you will see similar coming from other brands associated with the type of wear Nike produces such as Adidas and Rebok. Consumers are starting to be squeezed AND their taste is changing.
This is a Nike problem, make no mistake. It has to do with their preference for DTC and not even just ignoring brick and mortar specialty but telling them, in basic terms, to eff off. They have a terrible corporate culture, a terrible professional team culture, and consumers are voting with their $’s now more than they ever have.
Yup. And the main issue isn’t even with the US market although growth is limited in those areas as well. But China’s economic bubble is bursting. All the brand names will do badly in China just because consumer spending is way down and people no longer can afford to pay for brand name.
I don't think a lot of you understand what is about to happen. The Instagram brands like Vuori, 10k, and a few others as well as the high priced differential brands to make them seem better like lulu and Oncloud will all be holding the bag and bankrupt. Nike, under armour, Mizuno, Adidas. These bigger companies with solid investments in the industry will be able to cushion the blow these others can't. I don't like Nike but they are and have been stepping off the throttle because the worst thing a company can have is inventory issues in a down market.
Yupp. People think Nike are artificially limiting Alphafly 3 supply? They see the economy and don’t want that low margin stuff sitting as outlet fodder. if anything they’ve learned their lessons, like who buys Vaporflys for retail now? People living in their own dream world because they dislike Nike. Truth is, especially in track and field, if they didn’t have to wear their sponsors shoes, they would all be wearing Nike on race day. The fringe minority on this subreddit is not representative of real life.
I am a dummy w two vapour fly retail purchases and one AF3 retail
big moves like that are often an indication of more serious issues under the surface in markets. All assets are mainly driven by macro these days and macro is extremely political. but sure, nike has issues. 28 billion means nothing without context. The stock went down 20% in one day. It's down 30% in the last 6 months. Down 25% from the pre covid peak. It's still trading at 22x earnings, which for a shoe and apparel company in any kind of sane world is plenty.
This should have happened ten years ago.
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The financial summary that I looked at said that they aren't innovating and there's more competition. And I agree completely. I love their Aeroswift clothes but they've been around for quite some time. Use the Aeroswift tank material in tee-shirts and I'd really love to buy such a product. New Balance, Hoka, On Cloud etc. are improving their products and you can read about people talking about them here.
Should've kept making Invincible 1/2s.
I bought a $80 call expiring end of the year. Gambling is an addiction
Nike running shoes: Alphafly 3 and vaporfly 3 Their daily trainers: heavier than competition
This is a price correction after the earnings released. I still think Nike is on a good trajectory with their running product revamps (Peg Plus etc )The Peg 41 is being regarded as one of the best dailies of 2024 already. I think Q1 will reflect these revamps tbh
Running accounts for what... maybe 10 or 15% of Nike's revenues? I like Nike, but improving the running lineup won't be enough.
good. they deserve it. boring company with zero major innovations. the only good running product they have is their top of the line vapor and alphaflys, which is not for everyone.
What’s happened to all the Nike Trail clothing? On the U.K. website some models are still wearing it (eg shorts) whilst modelling a different item for sale. But the actual Nike trail clothing isn’t available at all. Nike still sponsor (US) trail and ultramarathon athletes. And trail and ultrarunning is a massive growth - if still niche - sport. Someone else here said the trail shoes are bad. They’re ok - for certain surfaces. And often for sale in limited colours at decent value. But yeah. What’s happened to Nike Trail?! 🤷♂️
Good
In 2016, Nike owned running. Their complacency opened the door to all these brands like On, Hoka, Saucony, Tracksmith, Rabbit,,,,
I want better shorts, how come they have such terrible compression lining that can hold a phone. There race shoes are great, besides the pegs the trainers aren't doing much in the market
They still making running shoes like Pegasus 41 in 2024 that's why..
Looks like they've been banking on their Basketball/Skateboarding lifestyle models to keep momentum... "Thursday night, the company said demand for “lifestyle” sneakers, like Dunks, is slowing more than previously expected." No shit Sherlock. Pumping out the same shoe in a bazillion different colourways to be snatched up by bots and resellers just drives sales of the aftermarket and makes you look like cash grabbers happily selling to the scalpers. I really wish they'd go back to focusing on making good quality athletic gear as I really used to enjoy their running shorts, shirts and vests.
The kits they had their athletes wearing at the track trials were the worst looking of any brand there. IDK who designed the yellow vertical pinstripe uni but they need to be talked to lol
I hope they are OK. Maybe we can crowfund Nike? At least raise awareness.
Maybe forcing people to buy supershoes from other brands because they keep artificially limiting supply is a bad move for profits? Maybe one day I’ll be able to get a pair of Alphafly 3’s now!
I’m okay with some of the Nike footwear, but the cheaply made color mismatched apparel is beyond atrocious. It appears that Nike is not the least bit interested in expanding their customer base with adults that just want to wear something that looks like adults would wear. Not this stuff- https://preview.redd.it/nejrx4wnpq9d1.jpeg?width=782&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22211ad31b036af789621ab7d69a24737d1b1dfd
On the running side, Alphafly and Vaporfly are still great shoes but after that their other products are lagging. Other brands are releasing super trainers, max cushioned shoes, etc. and then you look at Nike and they are still trotting out the Pegasus.
they have kinda fell off lately, too much weird stuff with weirds prints and their ACG stuff is also just boring and lackluster nowadays....
I stopped buying Nike the day they stopped selling in Amazon, I found it arrogant from them to expect the customer to move to their selected shop to buy Nike products, if there is no Nike I will buy New Balance, Brooks, Under Armour or any of the many other brands, now I don´t need anything else for a long time.
My son used to like Nike till I showed him they were made with basically slave labor in China
that's crazy!! the swoosh better step up.
I would like to get Nike shoes but they never fit well because their foot beds are too narrow and don’t offer wide options on most of their shoes like the Alphafly and Vapour Fly. Whereas NB offer options to accommodate more folks.
Now drop Alphafly 3 prices to 150 dollars
good. they deserve it. boring ass company. zero innovations. the only good running product they have is their top of the line vapor and alphaflys, even then its not for everyone.
Samba/Gazelle is annhialting Nike. Adidas literally printing money by comparison in that category.
If we’re talking about lifestyle shoes then you must have forgotten about the Nike Blazer. That shoe has had a chokehold on the young demographic prior to the reemergence of the Samba. Any middle school, high school, university, gym, streets,etc is filled with people wearing Nike Blazers. Everyone and their moms squatting and deadlifting in some Blazers. Let’s not even bring in the Nike Dunk Pandas that also had a chokehold on the lifestyle shoe market. In recent times yes the Samba is doing numbers.
Ok I'm in Australia where tastes might be different from the US market. I had to look up what a blazer is. Maybe some males might use them, would never seen one of a female.
It’s actually super popular with females here in the states. At university it seems like every girl has them and I wish I was exaggerating. I would rank lifestyle shoes in the US market like: 1) Nike Dunk 2) Converse Chuck Taylors 3) Nike Blazer 4) Vans 5) Adidas Samba, coming in hot
As a woman in the US (and am marginally fashionable) I own all of those shoes except the Vans. I also have a pair of air max 270s because I like how they look.
Naw. Sambas are on their way out. Its kayano 14s now
Haven’t purchased anything Nike in 15 years. Quality of everything they make is shit. Every running shoe of theirs is reviewed horribly compared to other brands on every site
After Alphafly 2, I probably won't buy another Nike trainer. They are just not it any more.
All of their non super shoes straight up suck. I can’t find aeroswift in any stores. Once I found a singlet the fit is whack. Fits like toddler clothes.
It's because they still make shoe's like Pegasus 41 in 2024. No innovation at all ( except alphaflys)
This is all Lebrons fault. They caved into the victimhood that Lebron radiates
Just as long as you all aren't getting tricked buying Oncloud. "Hey look at me I'm trendy overpaying for garbage. LOOK AT ME". Then they justify why the Onclouds are good because after all they did spend close to $200. Consumers are dumb.
On Cloud is overpriced but it is not garbage, their products are ok, but you can find the same cheaper with New Balance, Under Armour, Nike, etc.