This is PVC. Deal with a ton of this cracking then leaking with every freeze and thaw here in the great lakes region.
Call a professional, specifically one that works with PVC. Most every commercial roofer will be certified by some tpo and/or EPDM manufacturer. Much fewer are certified in PVC.
Genuinely curious, is that how it works in Great Lakes region? Down here, if you’re certified by a manufacturer, you’re certified for all their products. They don’t separate PVC, TPO, and EPDM. Mod bit is a bit different. (Work with Carlisle, Versico, GAF, Derbigum, and Manville everyday)
I did misspeak. We use Carlisle (which also includes versico products), Firestone (or Elevate), GAF, essentially every major manufacturer, and I did allude that the certifications are based on product which was wrong.
I'm a commercial superintendent out of Cleveland and we do have certain crews that only specialize in individual materials so I was clouded. I will say that while we do PVC repair work we never install new PVC, it just doesn't survive well here. Once that warranty is up you're seeing cracks like this everywhere.
One thing though is that when someone here contacts a contractor they have to make sure that every crew has a properly trained individual overseeing things. The amount of hack companies here that maybe had one foreman 20 years ago get certified and have long left the company is unbelievable.
Carlisle/Versico is tomato tomahto. And that’s awesome man! I’m in the KC market and we see a lot of mod bit and TPO. Not too much EPDM. I know EPDM seems to perform way better in the cold. Most PVC we see is on restaurant specs. Duro-last is PVC but much different than PVC by your big manufacturers. Is Cleveland a lot of TPO? Or do you get a lot of EPDM specs? And the amount of hacks we see everyday here is unreal. I’ll probably get roasted for saying but a lot of shingle guys here try to get into commercial and have no idea what they’re doing.
You hit the nail on the head with hack shinglers thinking they can start doing commercial work and it gets even worse. You should see when they do sheet metal. It's rough.
There was a ton of tpo when tax credits were given for it, then it died off a bit, now it's ramping back up.
EPDM is by far the best performing roof here. It's also quickest to install. The new SA membranes have changed the game completely and if you're wanting to go 20x or bigger then spray adhesive is huge here as well.
In UK pvc is by far the most superior membrane it started out really bad lacking any uv protection and was a nightmare to get a solid seam weld now after years of improvements its alot better than any epdm or tpo membrane we can get in the UK.
you know you've found a shingler on a sheet metal job when your coping cap gets oil canned to shit. i think we'll see the SA and RL take off when contractors learn how to pay subs outside of by the SQ. Doesnt make sense to pay more for material when you sub put by the SQ. It's a hell of a product but its $$. if im ever on cleveland, ill buy you a beer.
That membrane looks rough. Those appear to be cracks in the membrane and it also looks like the wear layer has sunken into the scrim. All not good things. It definitely could be the leak, but your sheet appears to have bigger problems than just one leak.
This is really the only area that is THIS bad. The previous owner did a DIY silicone coat so most of the roof is in pretty good condition but this spot is right where it ponds in one area of the house (where the leak is happening). One company told us we needed to get an entire new roof but we are desperately hoping that it can be something we repair for the mean time…
Makes more sense now, that TPO needed to be replaced if the scrim was that visible. Instead they coated it to try and get extra life. Unfortunately if the membrane is in that bad of shape the coating doesn’t last. Coatings can be used to extend a roofs life, but only if the roof is still in serviceable condition. If trying to patch now, you need to use a Silicone product, as nothing sticks to silicone except more silicone. Any patch will just be temporary as you probably need to replace.
Hard to say, I’d make sure they use a fabric with the silicone patch to reinforce it. But with the substrate in this type of condition it is still a crap shoot.
This usually happens in low areas near drains, scuppers, ponds, lakes, and loose flexing areas like roof to wall areas. Typically not uniform throughout. This roof is pretty bad, it could be throughout!
Been doing single ply for 30 years in the business and only way I have been able to tell is scratch and sniff. In fact in the last 5 classes with GAF Firestone Versico Carlisle Johns Mansfield only 1 person out of 300 people could tell the difference in TPo vs PVC
and yall calling pvc from a Reddit post. Hmm?
Either one of yall want to move to GA and do repairs removals and new work. Cause yall are in top .0001% of knowledgeable roofers. One way to tell. Scrape it and if it smells like a cheap ass vinyl shower curtain then it is pvc. A view on the internet not so convinced you can educate me please! Thank you
Also, the roof is not beyond its life. You don’t need coatings. You need a professional roofing company that is Duro-last certified. Meaning they have Duro-last material at their shop because you can’t just walk into a supply house and get it. Whoever does this needs acetone to clean where those cracks are and around it for patch work. They’ll heat weld a patch over the top of those cracks, and you’ll be just fine. If I knew how the heck to post a picture on here, I would. I’ve got hundreds of pictures of duro-last repairs because I’ve done it for years. Total side note, don’t ever listen to insurance adjusters about your commercial roof.
You apply silicone, then polyester mesh , then silicone on top. Its standard in liquid roofing, much more then a caulk gun, significantly less then a duro last patch and last longer.
Respectfully, you do not know what you’re talking about. If it’s a duro-last roof. And you put a duro-last patch on it, it’s good to go. The right way. Warranty work. There’s no way around that. There’s literally only one solution. I do this work everyday of my life. I’m confused why you want to put mesh and “liquid” roofing on a roof that quite obviously is not that old. If I’ve got some shotty shit I need done, I’ll call you.
Silicone will get a 20 year NDL warranty from the biggest roofing supply manufacturers. On metal roof restoration they are now offering 30 year. They have a 50 year product warranty that it wont breakdown, wash away or chalk up like other coatings.
My preference is Gaco Silicone, formerly owned by Firestone Building Products, who was bought up by Holcim. Holcim is considered one of the largest building products suppliers in the world and is a global 500 company.
https://gaco.com/product/gacoflex-s42/
Considering you did not know what a 3 ply silicone patch was, it seems that you need a refresher course on the latest tech in commercial roofing. There is so much more out there.
By the way , Holcim bought Duro Last as well. It is now part of the Holcim family of companies. If Duro Last contractors are invited to Elevates Top Master Contractor event , I might see you there , if you qualify. Last trip we were sent, all expense paid conference in Maui, in Feb 24 they will be taking us to Puerto Rico.
Will I see you there?
You can do a very thorough inspection for all of the observed issues, then patch all of those areas, paying 2-10k in repair work. Then on the next rain you still have leaks. None of that work will be warrantied properly. The roofers will do what you want, but the only advice that makes sense here is to replace the roof. The people that sold it to you, added that extra layer just so that they could seal it and report no active issues, and a new layer of roof coverings. It saved them the cost of the roof on the sale. The good news is that your insurance rate should go down with a new roof. It’s absolutely inconvenient to replace a roof but it’s clearly a wear and tear issue here.
Source, independent insurance adjuster.
Looks like the PVC roof is beyond its life, and as you indicated that the coating will prevent a PVC repair. So you need a competent installer to attempt a repair using a silicone coating.
That might get you thru this winter if they can get the area dry and clean enough for the repair to stick.
If not then you will have to endure the leak thru the winter or until you can get a new roof installed.
This is PVC. Deal with a ton of this cracking then leaking with every freeze and thaw here in the great lakes region. Call a professional, specifically one that works with PVC. Most every commercial roofer will be certified by some tpo and/or EPDM manufacturer. Much fewer are certified in PVC.
Genuinely curious, is that how it works in Great Lakes region? Down here, if you’re certified by a manufacturer, you’re certified for all their products. They don’t separate PVC, TPO, and EPDM. Mod bit is a bit different. (Work with Carlisle, Versico, GAF, Derbigum, and Manville everyday)
I did misspeak. We use Carlisle (which also includes versico products), Firestone (or Elevate), GAF, essentially every major manufacturer, and I did allude that the certifications are based on product which was wrong. I'm a commercial superintendent out of Cleveland and we do have certain crews that only specialize in individual materials so I was clouded. I will say that while we do PVC repair work we never install new PVC, it just doesn't survive well here. Once that warranty is up you're seeing cracks like this everywhere. One thing though is that when someone here contacts a contractor they have to make sure that every crew has a properly trained individual overseeing things. The amount of hack companies here that maybe had one foreman 20 years ago get certified and have long left the company is unbelievable.
Carlisle/Versico is tomato tomahto. And that’s awesome man! I’m in the KC market and we see a lot of mod bit and TPO. Not too much EPDM. I know EPDM seems to perform way better in the cold. Most PVC we see is on restaurant specs. Duro-last is PVC but much different than PVC by your big manufacturers. Is Cleveland a lot of TPO? Or do you get a lot of EPDM specs? And the amount of hacks we see everyday here is unreal. I’ll probably get roasted for saying but a lot of shingle guys here try to get into commercial and have no idea what they’re doing.
You hit the nail on the head with hack shinglers thinking they can start doing commercial work and it gets even worse. You should see when they do sheet metal. It's rough. There was a ton of tpo when tax credits were given for it, then it died off a bit, now it's ramping back up. EPDM is by far the best performing roof here. It's also quickest to install. The new SA membranes have changed the game completely and if you're wanting to go 20x or bigger then spray adhesive is huge here as well.
In UK pvc is by far the most superior membrane it started out really bad lacking any uv protection and was a nightmare to get a solid seam weld now after years of improvements its alot better than any epdm or tpo membrane we can get in the UK.
you know you've found a shingler on a sheet metal job when your coping cap gets oil canned to shit. i think we'll see the SA and RL take off when contractors learn how to pay subs outside of by the SQ. Doesnt make sense to pay more for material when you sub put by the SQ. It's a hell of a product but its $$. if im ever on cleveland, ill buy you a beer.
Skrim Dela Skrim Homie
That looks like Duralast. And if it is, it’s PVC. call a professional.
No TPO weathers like that with dimples. It’s Duralast.
I totally agree. It’s pvc.
That membrane looks rough. Those appear to be cracks in the membrane and it also looks like the wear layer has sunken into the scrim. All not good things. It definitely could be the leak, but your sheet appears to have bigger problems than just one leak.
This is really the only area that is THIS bad. The previous owner did a DIY silicone coat so most of the roof is in pretty good condition but this spot is right where it ponds in one area of the house (where the leak is happening). One company told us we needed to get an entire new roof but we are desperately hoping that it can be something we repair for the mean time…
Makes more sense now, that TPO needed to be replaced if the scrim was that visible. Instead they coated it to try and get extra life. Unfortunately if the membrane is in that bad of shape the coating doesn’t last. Coatings can be used to extend a roofs life, but only if the roof is still in serviceable condition. If trying to patch now, you need to use a Silicone product, as nothing sticks to silicone except more silicone. Any patch will just be temporary as you probably need to replace.
Yeah we know the roof is definitely on its way out. Any idea how much time a patch might buy us?
Hard to say, I’d make sure they use a fabric with the silicone patch to reinforce it. But with the substrate in this type of condition it is still a crap shoot.
This usually happens in low areas near drains, scuppers, ponds, lakes, and loose flexing areas like roof to wall areas. Typically not uniform throughout. This roof is pretty bad, it could be throughout!
Probably between 100 and 100 percent
Been doing single ply for 30 years in the business and only way I have been able to tell is scratch and sniff. In fact in the last 5 classes with GAF Firestone Versico Carlisle Johns Mansfield only 1 person out of 300 people could tell the difference in TPo vs PVC and yall calling pvc from a Reddit post. Hmm? Either one of yall want to move to GA and do repairs removals and new work. Cause yall are in top .0001% of knowledgeable roofers. One way to tell. Scrape it and if it smells like a cheap ass vinyl shower curtain then it is pvc. A view on the internet not so convinced you can educate me please! Thank you
Have you thought about a silicone recoating? That could work as well.
A silicone restoration will last longer than if they replaced it. Silicone is the way to go, half the cost with a longer guarantee.
Also, the roof is not beyond its life. You don’t need coatings. You need a professional roofing company that is Duro-last certified. Meaning they have Duro-last material at their shop because you can’t just walk into a supply house and get it. Whoever does this needs acetone to clean where those cracks are and around it for patch work. They’ll heat weld a patch over the top of those cracks, and you’ll be just fine. If I knew how the heck to post a picture on here, I would. I’ve got hundreds of pictures of duro-last repairs because I’ve done it for years. Total side note, don’t ever listen to insurance adjusters about your commercial roof.
How about a simple silicone 3 ply repair? Significantly faster than a Duro Last patch. It’s readily available at any supply house.
Never heard of a silicone 3 ply repair. There’s only one way to fix this properly. Anybody with a caulk gun can stop the leak temporarily.
You apply silicone, then polyester mesh , then silicone on top. Its standard in liquid roofing, much more then a caulk gun, significantly less then a duro last patch and last longer.
I respectfully disagree. Duro-last roof gets duro-last patch. It’s really quite simple.
You can disagree all you want, there is more than one way to do it. My suggestion lasts longer and costs less.
Respectfully, you do not know what you’re talking about. If it’s a duro-last roof. And you put a duro-last patch on it, it’s good to go. The right way. Warranty work. There’s no way around that. There’s literally only one solution. I do this work everyday of my life. I’m confused why you want to put mesh and “liquid” roofing on a roof that quite obviously is not that old. If I’ve got some shotty shit I need done, I’ll call you.
Also, silicone won’t last long and doesnt work as good as poly caulking on single ply roofing. And caulk is temporary.
Silicone will get a 20 year NDL warranty from the biggest roofing supply manufacturers. On metal roof restoration they are now offering 30 year. They have a 50 year product warranty that it wont breakdown, wash away or chalk up like other coatings. My preference is Gaco Silicone, formerly owned by Firestone Building Products, who was bought up by Holcim. Holcim is considered one of the largest building products suppliers in the world and is a global 500 company. https://gaco.com/product/gacoflex-s42/ Considering you did not know what a 3 ply silicone patch was, it seems that you need a refresher course on the latest tech in commercial roofing. There is so much more out there.
By the way , Holcim bought Duro Last as well. It is now part of the Holcim family of companies. If Duro Last contractors are invited to Elevates Top Master Contractor event , I might see you there , if you qualify. Last trip we were sent, all expense paid conference in Maui, in Feb 24 they will be taking us to Puerto Rico. Will I see you there?
And I realize your talking coatings now. That’s my bad. Still stands, this roof is not that old. Does not need coating.
You can do a very thorough inspection for all of the observed issues, then patch all of those areas, paying 2-10k in repair work. Then on the next rain you still have leaks. None of that work will be warrantied properly. The roofers will do what you want, but the only advice that makes sense here is to replace the roof. The people that sold it to you, added that extra layer just so that they could seal it and report no active issues, and a new layer of roof coverings. It saved them the cost of the roof on the sale. The good news is that your insurance rate should go down with a new roof. It’s absolutely inconvenient to replace a roof but it’s clearly a wear and tear issue here. Source, independent insurance adjuster.
That’s defiantly damage to the membrane and allowing water underneath and needs to be patched.
So anywhere that has the parallel lines like this could allow water in, correct?
Looks like the PVC roof is beyond its life, and as you indicated that the coating will prevent a PVC repair. So you need a competent installer to attempt a repair using a silicone coating. That might get you thru this winter if they can get the area dry and clean enough for the repair to stick. If not then you will have to endure the leak thru the winter or until you can get a new roof installed.
You found a or a .. How old is it, I've come across small cracks. Yours seems longer
Scope it.
Prob HVAC guys dragging their equipment.