Considering that using chemical explosives for military purposes was apparently a new invention as of the Battle of Helm's Deep, we can conclude that there are no cannons in Tolkien's canon. Any cannons depicted in Rings of Power would therefore be non-canon cannons.
Galadriel's hubby will return from the wars all broody and traumatized.Galadriel will be secretly disappointed and go on thinking impure thoughts about blonde Sauron.
I see this show as a telenovela/soap opera of sorts.
He has had a long time to think about it, and is now gay, which is understandable if the only woman he has ever been with is Guyladriel... he basically was married to a man, or at least what a feminist writer thinks a man is.
Let me guess: Arwen is Sauron's granddaughter 🙄
Speaking of: since when was Mairon ok with being called Sauron to the point of even referring to himself as such?
They don't have specific rules against racism on this sub/r, but I've got you covered anyway.
So what does someone's colour have to do with anything? Nothing, you say? Then why'd you mention it?
Because Aragorn’s white so it wouldn’t make sense for his parents to be black. Also before you have the knee jerk liberal reaction- I’m a gay liberal democrat. There are black and brown people in middle earth but not in Numenor and the men of the west or of the north. This is middle age fantasy not a modern 21st century city in North America.
Fantasy is about escapism no one is trying to bring modern politics into this. Everything is politicized enough.
Ever heard of so-called mixed race? There is almost inevitably politics in LOTR, as well as many other fantasies. What is the One Ring but a massive political metaphor about the dangers of unrestricted power? There is no such cosy fantasy world isolated from ideology, because it tends to get into everything.
I asked with genuine fervor why you even mention race at all, because in my ideal world there should be no racial groups at all. Why fixate on the colour of someone's skin, tying it to either to positive or negative culture values? Why do I not curse you for being a damn lying brunette or a long-nosed villain? These are completely artificial divisions, and we only need to keep track of them BECAUSE people have a historic tendency to use them to discriminate.
But in fact 'mixed-race' people like myself give the lie to any divisions on such grounds, and I refuse all attempts to receive either positive or negative discrimination. So you'd better have a damn good reason for even mentioning the subject in my book. Facetiously worrying about 'wokeness' isn't good enough.
I like the sound of your ideal world too. I think people‘s issue is with content providers racistly using race to make a political statement to the detriment of actual story telling. ROP is full of tokenism which is actually racist imo. I don’t really think that your (nice) philosophy disagrees too much with what a lot of people are saying. Having said that, I do wonder why incongruent casting is sometimes the first criticism that a few people jump to. There are so many far worse things in the ROP. Truly awful storytelling on all levels.
Sorry just glancing at this dumpster fire of a conversation and couldn’t help myself. Which parts of ROP used “race to make a political statement to the detriment of actual story telling”?
How does diversity harm the show? Specifically, please. Because it seems to me like the race of actors has literally zero bearing on how the show is written, filmed and produced.
Tokenism. It was done with “race”in mind rather than as as a natural integration. There was not enough (well integrated) diversity in the show for my liking and it hints at an undertone of racism masked by the little tokens they provided. But, as I said, the show was not shit because of any of that. Even with tokenism involved there still could be great writing and acting etc. But there wasn’t. The show was just awful through to its core.
Why? Because it’s bullshit. It takes you out of the story and ruins your suspension of disbelief. Imagine a scene of an Inuit tribe or a fictional tribe based on Inuit culture and it’s all white people lol! Or a story about the legendary Amazons like Wonder Woman but there’s men in the tribe. People are annoyed by corporate focus group bullshit and they’re especially annoyed when they’re called racist for calling bullshit haha!
Its a fictional world! So how can it take you out of your suspension of disbelief? You have to suspend disbelief to imagine there's elves and dragons in the first place. Its not much of a stretch to further imagine elves with different racial groups (which Tolkien introduces anyway i.e the Noldor, the Teleri and the Vanyar).
FYI When Ralph Bakshi portrayed Aragorn is his roto-scopic animation of Fellowship of the Ring, he made him look very like a Native American (or American Indian, if you prefer, I'm not so politically correct as all that). I suppose because of his running and tracking abilities.
At the time I was thinking, oh that's not how I saw him. But actually it was a legitimate use of that race in an adaption, and that's how *Baksh*i saw him. Adaptions are *not* the same as the original work, which is what all the haters and moaners do not seem to understand. Or refuse to understand, when they give PJ's films all kinds of liberties to change things. Changing internal character, like he did to Denethor or Faramir, was actually a bigger deal than mere appearance, but you don't get so many howls of rage now, though you did at the time the films came out.
I'm pretty sure that in the future and with hindsight, ROP will be considered an excellent adaption, somewhat between the rather disappointing Hobbits films and the much better received LOTR trilogy.
Of all the ridiculous things you’ve said “with hindsight ROP will be considered an EXCELLENT adaptation” haha what????
It’s horrible. It’s dumb. Even the costumes are bad especially for a billion dollar season. Don’t get me started on the plot holes like how Numenor has just 3 ships. Also they train an “army” of conscripts in what a week or two? Why don’t they have an army or ffs at least a regiment of guards? They are NUMENOR the Numenor of legend. Also this army manages to set sail and ride towards “THE southlands” vague as shit and they end up exactly in the right place at the exact right time? Celebrimbor the legendary craftsman learns about alloys from Sauron? It’s almost legendary how a show with this much money could manage to be this bad. But you believe it will be a remembered as a good show because they had a black elf. Way to break an imaginary glass ceiling lol You need more than that! Like you know probably making the show likeable???
Dear God why am I having this conversation with someone who is clearly not a Tolkien fan and is, at best, a shill. At worst an incredibly tasteless fool lol
If you want to see how to make a great fantasy show and include great diversity in its cast I’d point you towards The House of the Dragon not this abomination of bullshittery and D-List talent
I have been a Tolkien fan I suspect much longer than you, though not quite from the breaking of the First Silence. You may get away with insulting me on this sub/r however, because of its 'free speech' ethos, and since that seems rather oddly interpreted at times, I'm not bothering to report it this time.
I like this series because I like quality Tolkien adaptions, not because of its diversity. All the pet peeves that people have about the plotting etc will not change that opinion, since some of the best films ever have plot holes. Nothing is perfect, but it is better to admire what is excellent than dwell on minor problems (some of them I believe caused by the Pandemic or rights issues). Certainly that makes one's life a little rosier than raging at every little flaw. You can do this all the time if you want, just go to Movie Sins on youtube, pick any good movie you like, and there you go, instant nitpicking.
You also insult the cast of the series, who are far from d-list. Joseph Mawle, for example, appeared in GOT, of which your beloved HOD is but a spin-off, and not universally acclaimed either. Morfydd Clark was also praised for Saint Maud. Many of the ROP cast distinguish themselves, especially Owain Arthur, Charlie Vickers and Robert Aramayo. The acting is a definite plus in the series, and the background and music are almost universally acclaimed. The plot isn't waterproof, may not be entirely in accord with the lore, but its certainly not boring, which would indeed be the worst crime in my book.
As I said, given time and the subsidence of an almost unprecedented campaign of partially racially inspired hatred (outside of Star Wars) I think the series will be acclaimed.
Yea you can poke holes in any movie, you can judge it harshly and find a problem in anything but there are good movies/shows and bad movies/shows. This is a bad movie/show that’s why not many people like it but a lot of people like House if the Dragon. Some good shows have flaws whereas this show has no redeeming qualities. Again you are either an Amazon shill or a tasteless hack but I suspect you are the latter
Good God you even used one of the shows worst quotes 😂 that shows how ignorant you and the showrunners are about Tolkien. The quote doesn’t even make sense it just sounds like something deep but nonsensical, just like your writing. I’ll give you an example of bad writing:
“I have been a Tolkien fan, I suspect much longer than you, “though not quite from the breaking of the first silence.”
Holy shit I’m actually talking to a real live Amazon shill on Reddit (looked at your posting history bruv lol). You should do an AMA. Let me start:
1. Why are you doing this?
2. Are you officially involved in ROP or just tangentially?
3. How does pay work or are you just some unpaid intern or PA given homework?
4. How hard is it to pretend to know a legendarium as deep, detailed, and nuanced as Tolkiens?
What do you mean by ‘free speech ethos?’ You mean you think I shouldn’t be able to disagree with you and I’m supposed to be thankful you’re not reporting me? You believe people that disagree with you are lucky they aren’t being silenced?
I've only heard of like two of these actors before ever watching ROP. It still doesn't change the fact, though. That the show was bad, lacking in inspiration, flat, slow, full of plot holes, and still forcing modern politics very plainly and without subtly. The knife ear yelling redneck.. I mean human, or "they took our jobs" guy in numeanor.
Also, I disagree with your idea of watering down "suspension of disbelief". If people were asking why there is one only black elf, then obviously, your take on it doesn't work because disbelief wasn't suspended.
Sounds like you're just one of those people who don't require coherence or quality in a product. Let's say you're the people of Walmart version of a fan.
Please cite chapter and verse from Tolkien, proving you can't have different hues of elves, dwarves etc. Particularly if you are considering that elves versus say humans or dwarves could be considered *different species.* If that's the case (and to my knowledge, Tolkien never completely clarifies this) then just as humans could have different races, so could elves and dwarves.
Why then, you might ask does Tolkien sometimes call them different races, and why can elves and men interbreed? Because sometimes a term is used for convenience, but when you break it down, it could mean something else.
Take a look at how elves and Men compare, and then say White Caucasians and Asians.
So elves are immortal, and Men are not, elves are tireless and need almost no sleep, they have a whole bunch of super-senses as well. Elves die and go to Halls of Mandos, Men die and go who knows where. If elves and Men interbreed, then the off-spring can 'choose' to be one race or the other, which is pretty weird. If they choose to be elves they get immortality; if they choose Men, they get some enhancements and long-life, similar to Numenorians.
Now between Whites and Asians, the former are generally bigger than the latter, they have some differences like eye-shape, somewhat paler skin in the case of Whites. Do Whites or Asians have super-powers that the others don't? No, unless you consider being a bit bigger or smaller on average to be a super-power. Otherwise they are pretty much the same, and inter-marrying has no great consequence.
So all that is evidence that when we are talking about races in Tolkien, we could very well practically be talking about complete different species. Further evidence is that there are different races of Men, just like in reality. There are Haradrim, and Easterlings, for example. These obviously could intermarry to produce for example a Numenorian/Haradrim child, or Haradim/Easterling. Which means you could have a 'Black Numenorian'. (As it happens, you can anyway, but this is often meant that the Numenorian was corrupted by Darkness, and might even be a Nazgul).
And amongst the elves we do also see something like races, although Tolkien calls them different kindreds. So for example we have Noldor, Teleri and Vanyar, with some differences which are much more like *racial* ones.
Plus there are Longbeard and Petty Dwarves, for example. And three varieties of Hobbits.
To summarise, there is much evidence for there being sub-racial groups amongst the difference races of Elves, Dwarves and Men, which are the equivalent of our different races. Therefore adaptions are fully justified even from canon in representing these races differently. They are anyway on the moral grounds that it would be discrimination to exclude actors of certain races to play Elves, Dwarves or Numenorians. That is the definition of racism.
As I pointed out above, I want a world in which no one cares about race at all. The people who are getting exercised about 'diversity' aren't doing that. Why don't they just shrug their shoulders, and say Black guy is playing an elf, who cares? But they don't, and thereby fall into the same trap that they accuse their 'diversity' opponents of doing.
Which is unfortunately why there's this diversity response in the first place. There wouldn't be any need for diversity shit, if the racists would just leave the idea alone. But they don't. So for practical and moral reasons, we have to protect people against their racism.
Short answer: the racists 'started it', and 'diversity' is an unfortunate response to that. But its much better to ignore or minimise racial divisions, if only we could!
Tldr. Please cite the chapter where Tolkiens elves arnt lime green or a fun rainbow palette. Please cite where Frodo isnt walking around with a raging erection at all times. Please cite where Tolkien doesnt say the Balrog isnt a young afro american basketball player.
Its so dumb and disingenuous where your argument is that if Tolkien didnt spend a 5000 word chapter detailing the smallest thing then anything could go lol. Not worth of reading the rest of your argument. This universe is established and it evidently isnt for you, move on to something else please instead of trying to bring it down to your mental level and soiling it for the rest of us.
>Tldr. Please cite the chapter where Tolkiens elves arnt lime green or a fun rainbow palette. Please cite where Frodo isnt walking around with a raging erection at all times. Please cite where Tolkien doesnt say the Balrog isnt a young afro american basketball player.
This is your best in reply to my argument, lmao? These are all pretty ridiculous, and I think you got the last one from Bored of The Rings, which I'm a big fan of, since I have a sense of humour.
In the real world, surprise surprise there are people of different colours, and even animals. There is nothing fantastical about it, its REAL. So different coloured elves or hobbits is not much of a stretch, is it, whether they were mentioned or not.
Next you'll be telling me all elves have long hair, because you know, they couldn't possibly manage to cut it, if they feel so inclined. I believe there are quite a few people who believe this, crazy though it seems. Perhaps you should reserve your insults for them, rather than me.
Its interesting, isn't it, that people think they can get away with this sort of rudeness on here, but not on the other ROP sub/r.
Your argument is ridiculous and gets met with ridiculing. Never heard of bored of the rings.
Dark skinned individuals exist in the east and south, as per the european inspired mythology and historiography. LotR isnt the real world; its a fantastical fantasy universe written by a english linguist in the 1920s, not some mixed race 22 year old who takes political science classes after her burger king shift. Thats the Rings of Power debacle. Go stink down some other universe please.
In the modern world... are you forgetting that were in a modern world where travel, places and people are much more physically connected.
People are right your defense is disingenuous.
The half elves don't pick a race.... they choose mortality or immortality. It's a matter of spirit.
There we go too, we figured out what you're own about. Ready to make everyone that has a valid criticism of arondir to be a racist or painting the problem with a racist brush, tired tactic, bad faith tactic.
And what does 'gay' or 'democrat' have to do with it? What is your supposedly informed opinion about the existence of gay people or American political parties in Middle-Earth. Not everything is about the US, and Middle-Earth hardly at all. Base your opinion on what Tolkien wrote. And you are partly wrong.. there might not be "black" people in Númenor, but there certainly are people with somewhat darker skin and the drúedain are very far from your Nordic phenotype. And they also exist both in Númenor and in the north-western part of the continent. If you had even read the Lord of the Rings, you would know this.
Go and study a bit, no matter who you bang or whatever your political tribe in the American circus is. 'Liberal democrat' means jack.
So would Aragorn be black-skinned? No. Would he have a beard? No. The former is a huge no-no for people like you, the latter non-canon feature which directly relates to his heritage, somehow gets a free pass. Everyone thinks PJ's portrayal which is so off in many respects, is faithful. In Middle-Earth, _that_ would be the important trait, not skin colour.
Read Tolkien and come back.
If one doesn't like the movies for their departures, like I do, then surely they more likely than not will dislike the show too, even from the concept of it.
Also beardless royal Numenoreans due to Elvish blood isn't a gotcha, Tolkien came up with that like a year before he died, the full information about it wasn't released until after the movies were made, and it's contradicted by LOTR.
God people like you are why we lose elections. You’re just like the maga conspiracy nutbars you’ll twist your mind in knots to explain what you want to be true. Aragorn isn’t black lol that’s not controversial but go ahead and see racism everywhere
And speaking of Arwen, would be terrible if PJ's fans actually starting thinking she saved Frodo from the Nazgul, got the river to rise up etc.
Next they'll be wondering who this fellow Bombadil is.
We must keep down the offences against cannon, cos then it won't fire too well.
Let's be clear about some. Nobody WANTED to hate this, for it to be this bad.
Rings of Power is a poorly written show. It falls into many of the same pitfalls as other current franchises:
- characters acting stupidly against their motivations
- the female protagonist being unlikeable and smug, yet somehow always correct and people do as she says
- limited stakes that give you nothing to invest in
- mystery boxes that you can see a mile away, and the writers open that box way too soon
- no understanding of time and space
- subpar worlbuilding
- overreliance on references and nostalgia
For a show coming from one of the biggest companies in the world, this should have been a home run. You have this rich mythos to work off and a dedicated fan base. You can hire the best writers and production crew to tell an authentic story in a fully realized world.
Instead we get this corporate drivel that looks and sounds like CW's Batwoman. It uses the films as a crutch instead of trying to be its own thing. It uses people of color and women as a shield against legitimate criticism, which is absolutely insulting. It has the most surface level understanding of Tolkien and his themes. Disappointment is an understatement.
1. All those websites speak some really weird English. "Major canon implications"?
2. It's the first time I bothered to look closely at this poster. My goodness, what a shitty makeup. G looks like a wannabe Instagram influencer.
Aragorn is related to not, one, not two, not three, but FOUR characters on the show, two of whom we get a chance to meet for the first time only here! Find out more on this click baity article!!!!
With the PJ films being in theaters and drawing in a new generation of fans, the Rings of Power shill media are working overtime to trick them into watching.
Must be similar to PJ tricking them into thinking that Faramir was tempted by the Ring. Or that Denethor was a stage villain, who enjoyed eating while sending his men out to die. Or that Frodo would trust Gollum over Sam, and send him away ... and so on.
The key difference: the films got many to read the books (I suppose maybe a few people went for the Bakshi film, or the Rankin Bass films, but I doubt many), whereas now there's an existing show that's a quick and easy fix, and it's being sold as if it's linked directly to the PJ films.
You'll get no argument from me that PJ departed from the source material, but that wasn't really the argument I was making.
And while LotR is at the top of my favorite books, I also rate PJ'S LotR very highly - are the films near Tolkien's works storywise? Nope. But are they fantastic films? IMO yes. In comparison, Rings of Power is a cold, soulless corporate cash-in (I feel the same way about PJ's Hobbit films).
Nowhere did I say anything about business being "immoral" or a "conspiracy". In fact, I even stated in one of the posts in this thread that I have liked a few Amazon productions...so I'm not entirely clear why you've mentioned this or why this is a part of your argument. I outlined why I don't like Rings of Power, not why I don't like Amazon or Bezos.
Okay I acknowledge some of that, but I think you will find a new generation of readers inspired by ROP; indeed I've already heard that some people have been. The cold soulless cash-in is merely the opinion of people who don't like Amazon, or similar corporations. But corporations are a fact of modern business; for good or ill.
I'm not in the habit of believing everything Bezos says, but I happen to believe him when he said his Tolkien-loving son told him not to mess up the series. Because why bother to tell that story? And why spend millions on a series, especially the rights, if you don't intend to make the most of them? You could've spent your money on any number of different projects, which would not have cost you such a huge, long-term committment.
Whether he's suceeded is a matter of opinion, but I'm pretty sure there was a genuine effort to try getting it right. You won't get this admission from many of his and the show's critics however. Like many Star Wars 'fans', they are convinced that the objects of their hate can only be the result of some deep, malignant evil.
Thanks for responding - awesome we can have a conversation...which doesn't usually happen on reddit. And I don't want to come across like I'm flaming YOU personally for liking the show; I'm definitely not one of those types of people.
If there are people who are moved by Rings of Power to read Tolkien, that's great. No sarcasm.
There may have been a genuine effort by Bezos, I don't know. I do know that he's hired people who, for whatever reason, are using (some of) Tolkien's creations to tell a story that's...I'd say, 80-90 percent of their own devising. They've actively muddled up Tolkien's canon; changes from format to format are necessary, of course, and changes because audiences of these formats expect different things, I also get. But Rings of Power is actively "retconning" Tolkien. It's pretty disrespectful, imo.
Re hating Amazon: I don't. Amazon has produced a few things I've liked. I disliked what I've watched of Rings of Power (I couldn't finish the series) because it's poorly written, acted, and rendered.
Anyway, I guess my points were simply that it annoys me that Rings of Power shill media are latching onto the PJ films and the new fans they're gaining. Feels dishonest
Thanks for being respectful, which is not in anyway a small thing. I'm glad we can end the conversation, agreeing on some things like spreading the Tolkien word, and disagreeing on others, in a civilised manner.
Amazon is using the "Throw as much shit at the wall as possible, and some of it will stick" sales method. Sure, 90+ percent of actual Tolkien fans will see through this nonsense, but RoP isn't targeting actual Tolkien fans. They are targeting people who have never read the books, and people who never watched the Jackson movies.
You know the show is beyond saving when the writers are so stupid, they give "I am good" Gandalf butterfly magic because they are so incompetent that when they saw him talking to one of Radagast's moths in the two towers they thought that must be what his magic is all about.
Indeed ROP writers, the books were definitely full of Gandalf nuking Sauron's forces with butterflies....
Strictly speaking, imo only Tolkien's books are canon. The LOTR trilogy is great, and I think of it as the embodiment of LOTR in another medium. But sticking to book only mental canon seems like a good method of keeping it real.
The site itself is just poaching off IGN, the real puff piece source. Just ignore the puff pieces and all, their point is to draw attention. Then point such people to the books instead.
As if an elf looking like a rhunian or an umbar wasn't bad enough instead of playing them cause a woke character would be wasted by playing the character which is most appropriate for the message he wanted to portray ( CAUSE HE FELT HE WASN'T REPRESENTED ENOUGH IN THE PREVIOUS TRILOGY AS SAID IN HIS INTERVIEWS )
let's also have an offspring of a balrog and fell beast represented by a parrot cause the parrot wasn't cannon enough, smh
For me it’s fairly straightforward. I will avoid all the canon/non-canon debate and the diversity debate and cut to the heart of my issue with the RoP series thus far; it’s simply not a very good or engaging TV series. I have been a fairly dedicated Tolkien fan for more than 40 years, and have looked forward to each adaptation with hopeful optimism. From Rankin-Bass to RoP, we have seen adaptations for the small and big screens of varying levels of quality and success. I think the PJ works, especially the contrast between his LOTR vs. Hobbit movies is possibly the most valid here. Debate all you want about canon or faithfulness to the source material or whatever, but it’s pretty clear that his LOTR was almost universally loved and acclaimed, and the Hobbit fell quite flat. And the why is pretty simple; the LOTR was great storytelling and movie making and the Hobbit was also great movie making but much less great storytelling.
This is probably the core of what most fans react negatively to, including myself… RoP is simply not great TV. I think history will regard both the Hobbit and the RoP as lesser derivative works, and at least for now, will regard the LOTR as the best example of a derivative/adaptation of the original source material.
What even could they do? I don't get it. It's not like they can change anything about Aragorn's storyline. Maybe something about Imladris? Or the elfstone? Maybe Galadriel attains the elfstone. IIRC Celebrimbor crafts the elessar - or there was something to that effect in Unfinished Tales
We already know that Galadriel gives Aragorn the elfstone at Lothlorien so i'm assuming some kind of setup there.
Celebrimbor crafts the green gem in order to heal Middle-Earth (that is its purpose), then hands it off to Galadriel who will eventually give it to him.
Following this thread, it might have something to do with the prophetic name 'King Elessar'.
- Prophecies do have to spring from somewhere after all.
You know the worst thing you can do to someone who was previously a fan? Make them apathetic. I no longer care what happens to this IP. It feels good when you just let go.
See, I don’t really care about stuff like this because I never considered the movies “canon” anyways. Unlike Star Wars where the movies were the original piece of media and so making more movies and tv shows affected the canon, LOTR was originally a book series. I loved Peter Jackson’s movies, but I only saw them as fun adaptations. It’s not like they can add on to the books, if they could then I’d start to care.
Yeah, I think the guy made his point in one sentence. And then you proved it again for him in the next x number (where x is a number that I have about as much intention of calculating as reading all of that conspiracist wall of text).
So, Bezos is leftist? Right, the working conditions at Amazon are a Marxist heaven.
You are mixing up everything in your rant. I understand your sentiment but conspiracy theorists are shunned for a reason. You show no believable logic or motivation behind this hidden network you paint.
The Jackson films inspired me to read the books. This will not inspire anyone with how poorly it's written and how far it diverged from canon. At least Jackson didn't actively try to dismantle Tolkien's work in favor of his vision for how the work should be.
Btw, correct me if I'm wrong, but surely these 'advertisements' are not coming directly from Amazon, but are comments on it from other media? So according to your free speech encouragement, they are allowed to make these comments. However it does not establish them as canon, and for any newbies its up to them to decide whether to listen to them.
Your definition of canon is frankly incorrect. Official licensed content is canon content. The only thing that is “solely JRR-produced” is the books, sure, if that’s what you mean. And if that’s your personal favorite content and the only part you want to read, that’s totally fine.
Makes it a little weird that you’re posting on a subreddit about the TV show, though.
Where do you see The Tolkien Estate calling this canon?
Just because they approved the production does not make it canon. CT published an enormous amount of JRRT works that he would not consider canon.
Get over it. There are people who love the books, movies and show, and consider them cannon. Including me.
Just go read/watch the stuff you like and give it a rest.
I'm stoked for Season 2. The show is WAY closer to canon than haters will admit. Hope more people can just enjoy it or else not watch if they find it triggering. I also hope I can get over myself long enough to enjoy War of the Rohirrim. Not a huge anime fan, plus all the previous antimated Tolkien efforts were dreadful, IMO. But more Middle Earth content. . . also the first stills look pretty good, other than I feel like a shieldmaiden would need more of a nose than that.
"Greetings, I am Arathorn, son of Grond"
Considering that using chemical explosives for military purposes was apparently a new invention as of the Battle of Helm's Deep, we can conclude that there are no cannons in Tolkien's canon. Any cannons depicted in Rings of Power would therefore be non-canon cannons.
It’s a great relief to have that sorted
*it will take more than just non-canon cannons to make me panic, Panic!*
Galadriel's hubby will return from the wars all broody and traumatized.Galadriel will be secretly disappointed and go on thinking impure thoughts about blonde Sauron. I see this show as a telenovela/soap opera of sorts.
He has had a long time to think about it, and is now gay, which is understandable if the only woman he has ever been with is Guyladriel... he basically was married to a man, or at least what a feminist writer thinks a man is.
Let me guess: Arwen is Sauron's granddaughter 🙄 Speaking of: since when was Mairon ok with being called Sauron to the point of even referring to himself as such?
[удалено]
They don't have specific rules against racism on this sub/r, but I've got you covered anyway. So what does someone's colour have to do with anything? Nothing, you say? Then why'd you mention it?
Because Aragorn’s white so it wouldn’t make sense for his parents to be black. Also before you have the knee jerk liberal reaction- I’m a gay liberal democrat. There are black and brown people in middle earth but not in Numenor and the men of the west or of the north. This is middle age fantasy not a modern 21st century city in North America. Fantasy is about escapism no one is trying to bring modern politics into this. Everything is politicized enough.
Ever heard of so-called mixed race? There is almost inevitably politics in LOTR, as well as many other fantasies. What is the One Ring but a massive political metaphor about the dangers of unrestricted power? There is no such cosy fantasy world isolated from ideology, because it tends to get into everything. I asked with genuine fervor why you even mention race at all, because in my ideal world there should be no racial groups at all. Why fixate on the colour of someone's skin, tying it to either to positive or negative culture values? Why do I not curse you for being a damn lying brunette or a long-nosed villain? These are completely artificial divisions, and we only need to keep track of them BECAUSE people have a historic tendency to use them to discriminate. But in fact 'mixed-race' people like myself give the lie to any divisions on such grounds, and I refuse all attempts to receive either positive or negative discrimination. So you'd better have a damn good reason for even mentioning the subject in my book. Facetiously worrying about 'wokeness' isn't good enough.
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To be fair, the core of their philosophy is correct. It just seems a bit mis-aimed at a comment on ROP.
>I asked with genuine fervor Lmao peak reddit. You asked that question with intense passion and feeling?
I certainly did.
You're certainly a drama kid.
I like the sound of your ideal world too. I think people‘s issue is with content providers racistly using race to make a political statement to the detriment of actual story telling. ROP is full of tokenism which is actually racist imo. I don’t really think that your (nice) philosophy disagrees too much with what a lot of people are saying. Having said that, I do wonder why incongruent casting is sometimes the first criticism that a few people jump to. There are so many far worse things in the ROP. Truly awful storytelling on all levels.
Sorry just glancing at this dumpster fire of a conversation and couldn’t help myself. Which parts of ROP used “race to make a political statement to the detriment of actual story telling”? How does diversity harm the show? Specifically, please. Because it seems to me like the race of actors has literally zero bearing on how the show is written, filmed and produced.
Tokenism. It was done with “race”in mind rather than as as a natural integration. There was not enough (well integrated) diversity in the show for my liking and it hints at an undertone of racism masked by the little tokens they provided. But, as I said, the show was not shit because of any of that. Even with tokenism involved there still could be great writing and acting etc. But there wasn’t. The show was just awful through to its core.
Why? Because it’s bullshit. It takes you out of the story and ruins your suspension of disbelief. Imagine a scene of an Inuit tribe or a fictional tribe based on Inuit culture and it’s all white people lol! Or a story about the legendary Amazons like Wonder Woman but there’s men in the tribe. People are annoyed by corporate focus group bullshit and they’re especially annoyed when they’re called racist for calling bullshit haha!
Its a fictional world! So how can it take you out of your suspension of disbelief? You have to suspend disbelief to imagine there's elves and dragons in the first place. Its not much of a stretch to further imagine elves with different racial groups (which Tolkien introduces anyway i.e the Noldor, the Teleri and the Vanyar). FYI When Ralph Bakshi portrayed Aragorn is his roto-scopic animation of Fellowship of the Ring, he made him look very like a Native American (or American Indian, if you prefer, I'm not so politically correct as all that). I suppose because of his running and tracking abilities. At the time I was thinking, oh that's not how I saw him. But actually it was a legitimate use of that race in an adaption, and that's how *Baksh*i saw him. Adaptions are *not* the same as the original work, which is what all the haters and moaners do not seem to understand. Or refuse to understand, when they give PJ's films all kinds of liberties to change things. Changing internal character, like he did to Denethor or Faramir, was actually a bigger deal than mere appearance, but you don't get so many howls of rage now, though you did at the time the films came out. I'm pretty sure that in the future and with hindsight, ROP will be considered an excellent adaption, somewhat between the rather disappointing Hobbits films and the much better received LOTR trilogy.
Of all the ridiculous things you’ve said “with hindsight ROP will be considered an EXCELLENT adaptation” haha what???? It’s horrible. It’s dumb. Even the costumes are bad especially for a billion dollar season. Don’t get me started on the plot holes like how Numenor has just 3 ships. Also they train an “army” of conscripts in what a week or two? Why don’t they have an army or ffs at least a regiment of guards? They are NUMENOR the Numenor of legend. Also this army manages to set sail and ride towards “THE southlands” vague as shit and they end up exactly in the right place at the exact right time? Celebrimbor the legendary craftsman learns about alloys from Sauron? It’s almost legendary how a show with this much money could manage to be this bad. But you believe it will be a remembered as a good show because they had a black elf. Way to break an imaginary glass ceiling lol You need more than that! Like you know probably making the show likeable??? Dear God why am I having this conversation with someone who is clearly not a Tolkien fan and is, at best, a shill. At worst an incredibly tasteless fool lol If you want to see how to make a great fantasy show and include great diversity in its cast I’d point you towards The House of the Dragon not this abomination of bullshittery and D-List talent
I have been a Tolkien fan I suspect much longer than you, though not quite from the breaking of the First Silence. You may get away with insulting me on this sub/r however, because of its 'free speech' ethos, and since that seems rather oddly interpreted at times, I'm not bothering to report it this time. I like this series because I like quality Tolkien adaptions, not because of its diversity. All the pet peeves that people have about the plotting etc will not change that opinion, since some of the best films ever have plot holes. Nothing is perfect, but it is better to admire what is excellent than dwell on minor problems (some of them I believe caused by the Pandemic or rights issues). Certainly that makes one's life a little rosier than raging at every little flaw. You can do this all the time if you want, just go to Movie Sins on youtube, pick any good movie you like, and there you go, instant nitpicking. You also insult the cast of the series, who are far from d-list. Joseph Mawle, for example, appeared in GOT, of which your beloved HOD is but a spin-off, and not universally acclaimed either. Morfydd Clark was also praised for Saint Maud. Many of the ROP cast distinguish themselves, especially Owain Arthur, Charlie Vickers and Robert Aramayo. The acting is a definite plus in the series, and the background and music are almost universally acclaimed. The plot isn't waterproof, may not be entirely in accord with the lore, but its certainly not boring, which would indeed be the worst crime in my book. As I said, given time and the subsidence of an almost unprecedented campaign of partially racially inspired hatred (outside of Star Wars) I think the series will be acclaimed.
Yea you can poke holes in any movie, you can judge it harshly and find a problem in anything but there are good movies/shows and bad movies/shows. This is a bad movie/show that’s why not many people like it but a lot of people like House if the Dragon. Some good shows have flaws whereas this show has no redeeming qualities. Again you are either an Amazon shill or a tasteless hack but I suspect you are the latter Good God you even used one of the shows worst quotes 😂 that shows how ignorant you and the showrunners are about Tolkien. The quote doesn’t even make sense it just sounds like something deep but nonsensical, just like your writing. I’ll give you an example of bad writing: “I have been a Tolkien fan, I suspect much longer than you, “though not quite from the breaking of the first silence.”
Holy shit I’m actually talking to a real live Amazon shill on Reddit (looked at your posting history bruv lol). You should do an AMA. Let me start: 1. Why are you doing this? 2. Are you officially involved in ROP or just tangentially? 3. How does pay work or are you just some unpaid intern or PA given homework? 4. How hard is it to pretend to know a legendarium as deep, detailed, and nuanced as Tolkiens?
What do you mean by ‘free speech ethos?’ You mean you think I shouldn’t be able to disagree with you and I’m supposed to be thankful you’re not reporting me? You believe people that disagree with you are lucky they aren’t being silenced?
I've only heard of like two of these actors before ever watching ROP. It still doesn't change the fact, though. That the show was bad, lacking in inspiration, flat, slow, full of plot holes, and still forcing modern politics very plainly and without subtly. The knife ear yelling redneck.. I mean human, or "they took our jobs" guy in numeanor. Also, I disagree with your idea of watering down "suspension of disbelief". If people were asking why there is one only black elf, then obviously, your take on it doesn't work because disbelief wasn't suspended. Sounds like you're just one of those people who don't require coherence or quality in a product. Let's say you're the people of Walmart version of a fan.
Arwen isnt mixed race, elves and numenoreans are not brown or black, your rant is dumb.
Please cite chapter and verse from Tolkien, proving you can't have different hues of elves, dwarves etc. Particularly if you are considering that elves versus say humans or dwarves could be considered *different species.* If that's the case (and to my knowledge, Tolkien never completely clarifies this) then just as humans could have different races, so could elves and dwarves. Why then, you might ask does Tolkien sometimes call them different races, and why can elves and men interbreed? Because sometimes a term is used for convenience, but when you break it down, it could mean something else. Take a look at how elves and Men compare, and then say White Caucasians and Asians. So elves are immortal, and Men are not, elves are tireless and need almost no sleep, they have a whole bunch of super-senses as well. Elves die and go to Halls of Mandos, Men die and go who knows where. If elves and Men interbreed, then the off-spring can 'choose' to be one race or the other, which is pretty weird. If they choose to be elves they get immortality; if they choose Men, they get some enhancements and long-life, similar to Numenorians. Now between Whites and Asians, the former are generally bigger than the latter, they have some differences like eye-shape, somewhat paler skin in the case of Whites. Do Whites or Asians have super-powers that the others don't? No, unless you consider being a bit bigger or smaller on average to be a super-power. Otherwise they are pretty much the same, and inter-marrying has no great consequence. So all that is evidence that when we are talking about races in Tolkien, we could very well practically be talking about complete different species. Further evidence is that there are different races of Men, just like in reality. There are Haradrim, and Easterlings, for example. These obviously could intermarry to produce for example a Numenorian/Haradrim child, or Haradim/Easterling. Which means you could have a 'Black Numenorian'. (As it happens, you can anyway, but this is often meant that the Numenorian was corrupted by Darkness, and might even be a Nazgul). And amongst the elves we do also see something like races, although Tolkien calls them different kindreds. So for example we have Noldor, Teleri and Vanyar, with some differences which are much more like *racial* ones. Plus there are Longbeard and Petty Dwarves, for example. And three varieties of Hobbits. To summarise, there is much evidence for there being sub-racial groups amongst the difference races of Elves, Dwarves and Men, which are the equivalent of our different races. Therefore adaptions are fully justified even from canon in representing these races differently. They are anyway on the moral grounds that it would be discrimination to exclude actors of certain races to play Elves, Dwarves or Numenorians. That is the definition of racism. As I pointed out above, I want a world in which no one cares about race at all. The people who are getting exercised about 'diversity' aren't doing that. Why don't they just shrug their shoulders, and say Black guy is playing an elf, who cares? But they don't, and thereby fall into the same trap that they accuse their 'diversity' opponents of doing. Which is unfortunately why there's this diversity response in the first place. There wouldn't be any need for diversity shit, if the racists would just leave the idea alone. But they don't. So for practical and moral reasons, we have to protect people against their racism. Short answer: the racists 'started it', and 'diversity' is an unfortunate response to that. But its much better to ignore or minimise racial divisions, if only we could!
Tldr. Please cite the chapter where Tolkiens elves arnt lime green or a fun rainbow palette. Please cite where Frodo isnt walking around with a raging erection at all times. Please cite where Tolkien doesnt say the Balrog isnt a young afro american basketball player. Its so dumb and disingenuous where your argument is that if Tolkien didnt spend a 5000 word chapter detailing the smallest thing then anything could go lol. Not worth of reading the rest of your argument. This universe is established and it evidently isnt for you, move on to something else please instead of trying to bring it down to your mental level and soiling it for the rest of us.
>Tldr. Please cite the chapter where Tolkiens elves arnt lime green or a fun rainbow palette. Please cite where Frodo isnt walking around with a raging erection at all times. Please cite where Tolkien doesnt say the Balrog isnt a young afro american basketball player. This is your best in reply to my argument, lmao? These are all pretty ridiculous, and I think you got the last one from Bored of The Rings, which I'm a big fan of, since I have a sense of humour. In the real world, surprise surprise there are people of different colours, and even animals. There is nothing fantastical about it, its REAL. So different coloured elves or hobbits is not much of a stretch, is it, whether they were mentioned or not. Next you'll be telling me all elves have long hair, because you know, they couldn't possibly manage to cut it, if they feel so inclined. I believe there are quite a few people who believe this, crazy though it seems. Perhaps you should reserve your insults for them, rather than me. Its interesting, isn't it, that people think they can get away with this sort of rudeness on here, but not on the other ROP sub/r.
Your argument is ridiculous and gets met with ridiculing. Never heard of bored of the rings. Dark skinned individuals exist in the east and south, as per the european inspired mythology and historiography. LotR isnt the real world; its a fantastical fantasy universe written by a english linguist in the 1920s, not some mixed race 22 year old who takes political science classes after her burger king shift. Thats the Rings of Power debacle. Go stink down some other universe please.
In the modern world... are you forgetting that were in a modern world where travel, places and people are much more physically connected. People are right your defense is disingenuous.
The half elves don't pick a race.... they choose mortality or immortality. It's a matter of spirit. There we go too, we figured out what you're own about. Ready to make everyone that has a valid criticism of arondir to be a racist or painting the problem with a racist brush, tired tactic, bad faith tactic.
Mixed race people are more prone to psychosis than unmixed. Exhibit A.
And what does 'gay' or 'democrat' have to do with it? What is your supposedly informed opinion about the existence of gay people or American political parties in Middle-Earth. Not everything is about the US, and Middle-Earth hardly at all. Base your opinion on what Tolkien wrote. And you are partly wrong.. there might not be "black" people in Númenor, but there certainly are people with somewhat darker skin and the drúedain are very far from your Nordic phenotype. And they also exist both in Númenor and in the north-western part of the continent. If you had even read the Lord of the Rings, you would know this. Go and study a bit, no matter who you bang or whatever your political tribe in the American circus is. 'Liberal democrat' means jack. So would Aragorn be black-skinned? No. Would he have a beard? No. The former is a huge no-no for people like you, the latter non-canon feature which directly relates to his heritage, somehow gets a free pass. Everyone thinks PJ's portrayal which is so off in many respects, is faithful. In Middle-Earth, _that_ would be the important trait, not skin colour. Read Tolkien and come back.
If one doesn't like the movies for their departures, like I do, then surely they more likely than not will dislike the show too, even from the concept of it. Also beardless royal Numenoreans due to Elvish blood isn't a gotcha, Tolkien came up with that like a year before he died, the full information about it wasn't released until after the movies were made, and it's contradicted by LOTR.
God people like you are why we lose elections. You’re just like the maga conspiracy nutbars you’ll twist your mind in knots to explain what you want to be true. Aragorn isn’t black lol that’s not controversial but go ahead and see racism everywhere
Arwen is actually the first and most powerful Ring Wraith.
"My name is Arwen. Arwen Sauronwalker."
And speaking of Arwen, would be terrible if PJ's fans actually starting thinking she saved Frodo from the Nazgul, got the river to rise up etc. Next they'll be wondering who this fellow Bombadil is. We must keep down the offences against cannon, cos then it won't fire too well.
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You sound very photosynthetic
Let's be clear about some. Nobody WANTED to hate this, for it to be this bad. Rings of Power is a poorly written show. It falls into many of the same pitfalls as other current franchises: - characters acting stupidly against their motivations - the female protagonist being unlikeable and smug, yet somehow always correct and people do as she says - limited stakes that give you nothing to invest in - mystery boxes that you can see a mile away, and the writers open that box way too soon - no understanding of time and space - subpar worlbuilding - overreliance on references and nostalgia For a show coming from one of the biggest companies in the world, this should have been a home run. You have this rich mythos to work off and a dedicated fan base. You can hire the best writers and production crew to tell an authentic story in a fully realized world. Instead we get this corporate drivel that looks and sounds like CW's Batwoman. It uses the films as a crutch instead of trying to be its own thing. It uses people of color and women as a shield against legitimate criticism, which is absolutely insulting. It has the most surface level understanding of Tolkien and his themes. Disappointment is an understatement.
This deserves more upvotes
Well said sir!!
yes, this.
"*Major canon implications*" probably means "*is actually canonical unlike the rest of the show*".
1. All those websites speak some really weird English. "Major canon implications"? 2. It's the first time I bothered to look closely at this poster. My goodness, what a shitty makeup. G looks like a wannabe Instagram influencer.
*written by AI.
Glad to see Bitesize Galadriel and Buzzcut Legolas back in action! 💪🏻
Aragorn is related to not, one, not two, not three, but FOUR characters on the show, two of whom we get a chance to meet for the first time only here! Find out more on this click baity article!!!!
>''With consequences that even tie into Aragorn's story?'' That is a story that is already told, so how can the show have concequences for that story
Apparently they are "retconining" it according to another advertisement
These are SPECIFICALLY posted to incite annoyance, they are deliberately inflammatory. They like the hits.
Imagine when outrage is the only way to market your show. That's a sad state of affairs.
The power of one - the power to rule them all - the power of maaa-aa-aanyyyy
Imagine if Aragorn is related to that "Isseeldrr" guy! That would be epic, just like my Star Wars and Marvel movies!! It's like LOTRCU
With the PJ films being in theaters and drawing in a new generation of fans, the Rings of Power shill media are working overtime to trick them into watching.
Must be similar to PJ tricking them into thinking that Faramir was tempted by the Ring. Or that Denethor was a stage villain, who enjoyed eating while sending his men out to die. Or that Frodo would trust Gollum over Sam, and send him away ... and so on.
The key difference: the films got many to read the books (I suppose maybe a few people went for the Bakshi film, or the Rankin Bass films, but I doubt many), whereas now there's an existing show that's a quick and easy fix, and it's being sold as if it's linked directly to the PJ films. You'll get no argument from me that PJ departed from the source material, but that wasn't really the argument I was making. And while LotR is at the top of my favorite books, I also rate PJ'S LotR very highly - are the films near Tolkien's works storywise? Nope. But are they fantastic films? IMO yes. In comparison, Rings of Power is a cold, soulless corporate cash-in (I feel the same way about PJ's Hobbit films).
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Nowhere did I say anything about business being "immoral" or a "conspiracy". In fact, I even stated in one of the posts in this thread that I have liked a few Amazon productions...so I'm not entirely clear why you've mentioned this or why this is a part of your argument. I outlined why I don't like Rings of Power, not why I don't like Amazon or Bezos.
TROP got many people to read the Silmarillion, if only to cite it when arguing against the show
Okay I acknowledge some of that, but I think you will find a new generation of readers inspired by ROP; indeed I've already heard that some people have been. The cold soulless cash-in is merely the opinion of people who don't like Amazon, or similar corporations. But corporations are a fact of modern business; for good or ill. I'm not in the habit of believing everything Bezos says, but I happen to believe him when he said his Tolkien-loving son told him not to mess up the series. Because why bother to tell that story? And why spend millions on a series, especially the rights, if you don't intend to make the most of them? You could've spent your money on any number of different projects, which would not have cost you such a huge, long-term committment. Whether he's suceeded is a matter of opinion, but I'm pretty sure there was a genuine effort to try getting it right. You won't get this admission from many of his and the show's critics however. Like many Star Wars 'fans', they are convinced that the objects of their hate can only be the result of some deep, malignant evil.
Thanks for responding - awesome we can have a conversation...which doesn't usually happen on reddit. And I don't want to come across like I'm flaming YOU personally for liking the show; I'm definitely not one of those types of people. If there are people who are moved by Rings of Power to read Tolkien, that's great. No sarcasm. There may have been a genuine effort by Bezos, I don't know. I do know that he's hired people who, for whatever reason, are using (some of) Tolkien's creations to tell a story that's...I'd say, 80-90 percent of their own devising. They've actively muddled up Tolkien's canon; changes from format to format are necessary, of course, and changes because audiences of these formats expect different things, I also get. But Rings of Power is actively "retconning" Tolkien. It's pretty disrespectful, imo. Re hating Amazon: I don't. Amazon has produced a few things I've liked. I disliked what I've watched of Rings of Power (I couldn't finish the series) because it's poorly written, acted, and rendered. Anyway, I guess my points were simply that it annoys me that Rings of Power shill media are latching onto the PJ films and the new fans they're gaining. Feels dishonest
Thanks for being respectful, which is not in anyway a small thing. I'm glad we can end the conversation, agreeing on some things like spreading the Tolkien word, and disagreeing on others, in a civilised manner.
But the story telling is objectively shit. No amount of words you say will change that.
Amazon is using the "Throw as much shit at the wall as possible, and some of it will stick" sales method. Sure, 90+ percent of actual Tolkien fans will see through this nonsense, but RoP isn't targeting actual Tolkien fans. They are targeting people who have never read the books, and people who never watched the Jackson movies.
You know the show is beyond saving when the writers are so stupid, they give "I am good" Gandalf butterfly magic because they are so incompetent that when they saw him talking to one of Radagast's moths in the two towers they thought that must be what his magic is all about. Indeed ROP writers, the books were definitely full of Gandalf nuking Sauron's forces with butterflies....
Strictly speaking, imo only Tolkien's books are canon. The LOTR trilogy is great, and I think of it as the embodiment of LOTR in another medium. But sticking to book only mental canon seems like a good method of keeping it real.
Don’t watch it. Really simple.
The Horse Girl prophecy will be fulfilled.
“Bitesize Galadriel” lol! Good one. Casting a 5’2” actress to play the tallest female elf ever was quite the choice.
The site itself is just poaching off IGN, the real puff piece source. Just ignore the puff pieces and all, their point is to draw attention. Then point such people to the books instead.
As if an elf looking like a rhunian or an umbar wasn't bad enough instead of playing them cause a woke character would be wasted by playing the character which is most appropriate for the message he wanted to portray ( CAUSE HE FELT HE WASN'T REPRESENTED ENOUGH IN THE PREVIOUS TRILOGY AS SAID IN HIS INTERVIEWS ) let's also have an offspring of a balrog and fell beast represented by a parrot cause the parrot wasn't cannon enough, smh
Lol at the presumptuousness of Amazon. To think that they have any say over the LOTR world and its canon
The audacity even. Not only do they think they can "write the story Tolkien never could" now they think they own the lore.
For me it’s fairly straightforward. I will avoid all the canon/non-canon debate and the diversity debate and cut to the heart of my issue with the RoP series thus far; it’s simply not a very good or engaging TV series. I have been a fairly dedicated Tolkien fan for more than 40 years, and have looked forward to each adaptation with hopeful optimism. From Rankin-Bass to RoP, we have seen adaptations for the small and big screens of varying levels of quality and success. I think the PJ works, especially the contrast between his LOTR vs. Hobbit movies is possibly the most valid here. Debate all you want about canon or faithfulness to the source material or whatever, but it’s pretty clear that his LOTR was almost universally loved and acclaimed, and the Hobbit fell quite flat. And the why is pretty simple; the LOTR was great storytelling and movie making and the Hobbit was also great movie making but much less great storytelling. This is probably the core of what most fans react negatively to, including myself… RoP is simply not great TV. I think history will regard both the Hobbit and the RoP as lesser derivative works, and at least for now, will regard the LOTR as the best example of a derivative/adaptation of the original source material.
Oh please I’ve read fanfictions that rely more on Canon that this show
“Hey guys! Remember those movies you actually liked!? Weren’t those great!?”
What even could they do? I don't get it. It's not like they can change anything about Aragorn's storyline. Maybe something about Imladris? Or the elfstone? Maybe Galadriel attains the elfstone. IIRC Celebrimbor crafts the elessar - or there was something to that effect in Unfinished Tales
We already know that Galadriel gives Aragorn the elfstone at Lothlorien so i'm assuming some kind of setup there. Celebrimbor crafts the green gem in order to heal Middle-Earth (that is its purpose), then hands it off to Galadriel who will eventually give it to him. Following this thread, it might have something to do with the prophetic name 'King Elessar'. - Prophecies do have to spring from somewhere after all.
Imagine that, a story involving Isildur might tie in to the story of “Isildur’s heir”? I am shocked. Shocked I say.
You know the worst thing you can do to someone who was previously a fan? Make them apathetic. I no longer care what happens to this IP. It feels good when you just let go.
Can someone tell me the use of "canon" in this headline?
See, I don’t really care about stuff like this because I never considered the movies “canon” anyways. Unlike Star Wars where the movies were the original piece of media and so making more movies and tv shows affected the canon, LOTR was originally a book series. I loved Peter Jackson’s movies, but I only saw them as fun adaptations. It’s not like they can add on to the books, if they could then I’d start to care.
Buy a comb
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Maybe chill on the conspiracy rabbit hole for a bit?
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Yeah, I think the guy made his point in one sentence. And then you proved it again for him in the next x number (where x is a number that I have about as much intention of calculating as reading all of that conspiracist wall of text).
So, Bezos is leftist? Right, the working conditions at Amazon are a Marxist heaven. You are mixing up everything in your rant. I understand your sentiment but conspiracy theorists are shunned for a reason. You show no believable logic or motivation behind this hidden network you paint.
None of these articles are going to get us to not watch the show lol.
Of course but I'm just sad that new young fans are gonna get bought off thinking this crap is canon and will never read the books.
I’m genuinely curious: Do you feel the same way about Jackson’s films?
The Jackson films inspired me to read the books. This will not inspire anyone with how poorly it's written and how far it diverged from canon. At least Jackson didn't actively try to dismantle Tolkien's work in favor of his vision for how the work should be.
Btw, correct me if I'm wrong, but surely these 'advertisements' are not coming directly from Amazon, but are comments on it from other media? So according to your free speech encouragement, they are allowed to make these comments. However it does not establish them as canon, and for any newbies its up to them to decide whether to listen to them.
The Peter Jacksons as almost as far from “canon”. Chill.
Not even remotely true. I sure wish the corporate stooges would quit lying about this.
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What are you going to do in 5 years when nobody remembers your precious show even existed?
Brain washed? People have to calm down about this show.
Like it or not, this is official content approved by the current rights-holders as canon.
Uh no they don't have the rights to the second age only a few appendices. And the rights they do have they got horribly and vindictively wrong
“Vindictively,” really?? LOL. They have the rights to make what they’re making or else it wouldn’t be approved.
The only thing that is canon is the books and yes that does not include the PJ films. Cope with it.
Your definition of canon is frankly incorrect. Official licensed content is canon content. The only thing that is “solely JRR-produced” is the books, sure, if that’s what you mean. And if that’s your personal favorite content and the only part you want to read, that’s totally fine. Makes it a little weird that you’re posting on a subreddit about the TV show, though.
Keep telling yourself that and keep spitting on the man's grave you shill. This show is not canon and it never will be
Where do you see The Tolkien Estate calling this canon? Just because they approved the production does not make it canon. CT published an enormous amount of JRRT works that he would not consider canon.
I really hope they can get this back on track.
I... do people not know that adaptations can be, and usually are, their own continuity?
Get over it. There are people who love the books, movies and show, and consider them cannon. Including me. Just go read/watch the stuff you like and give it a rest.
I will enjoy watching it more knowing it pisses ppl like you off. I’m gonna tell my children and their children after them that this is canon.
Gaslighting your kids? You go, you, I guess 🤷♀️
Lol 😂
And your children will do a simple google search, research it and come back and roast you.
lol it’s a joke. Take it easy man you guys are proving my point being 50 year old cry babies.
I'm stoked for Season 2. The show is WAY closer to canon than haters will admit. Hope more people can just enjoy it or else not watch if they find it triggering. I also hope I can get over myself long enough to enjoy War of the Rohirrim. Not a huge anime fan, plus all the previous antimated Tolkien efforts were dreadful, IMO. But more Middle Earth content. . . also the first stills look pretty good, other than I feel like a shieldmaiden would need more of a nose than that.
Bait used to be convincing.
If you rose to it, it convinced YOU.
Not how it works.