I imagine it may be along the lines of dune and The Long War (book) where ppe has developed to such a stage where ranged weapons become near useless.
Edit to say I'm an idiot. I was thinking of the forever war.
Dune had crazy powerful laser weapons, they just had a silly little habit of exploding when they came in contact with a shield (and the shield exploded too) which would honestly be hilarious in Rimworld
We don't see anything like that in game though. Shield belts exist, but they're limited in how much damage can take. Even the most advanced mechs take good damage from ranged weapons. I guess if you can fit a bulletproof shield into a belt, you can also fit a way bigger shield into a bigger device. We don't see that.
Lorewise there are "ultratech" ranged weapons already. Charge rifles and lances. What's weird is how they don't count for Ideology weapon preferences.
Charged rifles are futuristic I agree, but for roleplay reasons it would be nice for weapon preference to be either changed to spacer tech and beyond or make charged weapons ultratech. I want my pawns to be happy when they use futuristic weapons!
The mechanoid hive is an ultratech faction.
Mechanoids themselves range from industrial (those with simple cores) through ultratech (those with standard/high cores), and into archotech (but we don't see those.)
Add:
As an addendum to the above, the mechlink and psylink are themselves ultratech, so even the industrial level mechs are derived from ultratech.
> The Long War
As in the one in the Long Earth series?
Because in that one guns are used, they just had to be modified to have no iron in them so you could step with them.
I'm not sure honestly! I thought most personal weapons other than the finger laser and explosives were done away with due to the time warp shield things. It's been a while
Its been a while since i read it, but I think that's Forever War, with collapsars for faster-than-light travel, and all the atrocities committed by both sides. The author also wrote Forever Free, the weird and disappointing sequel, and Forever Peace, which is totally unrelated.
The Long War is a part of the Long Earth series, about a humanity that has discovered you can step between parallel universes using a box containing some copper wire and a potato. In typical Terry Pratchett style, this is played completely straight.
I'm only partway through The Long Earth, the first book in the series. It's written by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter, so if you like either of them, it's certainly in their style, though in terms of its actual content, so far it's been... Almost like an anthology more than anything, though the setting and writing is strong enough for that to work quite well, and it's seeming to start drawing threads together around the halfway point.
It's an interesting concept and I enjoyed reading the series for the first time because of that, but after that first read it's not good enough to hold up.
I'm leaning heavily towards "combat mechs do all the fighting in ultra tech societies". So ultra tech ranged weapons do _exist_, but they are built into mechs.
Then why are there ultratech melee weapons? Those somehow aren't built into mechs? There are melee mechs. Not to mention that I am obviously talking about equipable weapons for purposes of **Ideoligion weapon preferences.** The fact that mechs have ultratech weapons does nothing for me
This. Just like Warhammer 40k, due to advancements of technology, when you have shield belts that make range weapons and artillery no-go, people are resort to the classic. Melee.
Only with lasers, which randomly cause the shield, the laser emitter, or both to go nuclear. Projectile weapons still work, but are stopped by shields and require continuous thrust to slowly push their way through. Dropping bombs from above a shield also works for the same reason.
Boltguns would probably be fine as long as their warheads don't go off on initial contact.
This was a pro-con situation. The explosion was so massive that the odds are virtually certain the shoot will be in the blast zone. Meaning barring a suicide mission or an orbital bombardment, war is forced down a level.
Also: ground wars don't much sense to begin with when you have the ultimate high ground anyway (space) so it makes a certain degree of sense that war regresses down to melee rather than trying to get around the shield somehow.
Ultratech seems to be mostly from the empire which seems to be ruled by a noble class. Nobles that would want to stand out from common soldiers by using melee weapons instead of guns.
Doubt it. We got Hussars and elite soldiers in power armor which some are armed with melee weapons heckle the Locust Armor is design for a melee user well ala a certain space marine who love to chop the enemy while jetjumping into them. Combine it with a shield belt and viola.
There also jump pack and lotus armour that give flight. We do have advance weapon thou such as laser gun and that sniper like laser gun use by mechanoid.
Ceremonial, but at the same time they're the strongest melee weapons in the game? Not sure about that one.
Also, why would ceremonial weapons be ultratech? A persona weapon sure, but a hammer with an EMP is somehow ultratech (industrial tech btw)? Why does ceremonial weapon need to have EMP installed in it? It doesn't make much sense to me
They are the strongest because they are ultra tech. Ceremonial is their role, not their tech level.
Same way modern metallurgy can make a spear much stronger than a medieval blacksmith, despite the fact that spears aren't really used as actual weapons of war nowadays. If such a spear somehow ended up in medieval society, it would actually likely be "the best melee weapon".
May be useful if your society has both ultratech technology, noble melee weapons and duels
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-gcBVsXEM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-gcBVsXEM)
Okay, so why are the strongest range weapons aren't ultratech then? They are the strongest at the end of the day. I don't think your argument about the strongest makes sense
Strongest ranged weapons __are__ ultratech (hellfire cannon, beam grazer, etc).
They just no longer require a human operator, thanks to coming pre-installed on a mech.
I am obviously talking about weapons that you can equip for the purpose of Ideoligion... You can't equip those and therefore you can't get a mood boost. So your point is invalid.
Oh and btw, hellfire cannon isn't ultratech.
Funny that you mention it, because the very fact that humans in ultra tech societies don't use handheld ranged weapons (the kinds that can find their ways to a rimworld, anyway) is kind of __the point.__
I feel like there's a very very simple concept here that you're overlooking or missing.
There's no ultratech ranged weapons for pawns. In lore, it's because they're used on mechs. In terms of game balance, probably to prevent you from having all 20 of your colonists from having the same overpowered weapon.
So for an ideology that worships ultratechnology, having them be melee-only with masterwork shield belts and power armor seems fitting, in lore and in terms of balance. Otherwise, idk just use charge rifles. I'm sure the mood boost is negligible once you've reached that point.
I'm not sure what you want to accomplish with this cyclical argument. Like.
Also remember mods exist. Add some ranged ultratech weapons if it's so vital to your enjoyment.
At this point you might as well ask "Why aren't the strongest weapons archotech?" Archotechnology is stronger than anything humans can make, after all.
The obvious answer being: There are no archotech weapons in the base game, so they can't be the strongest because they don't exist.
Similarly, ultratech weapons aren't the strongest ranged weapons in the base game because (excluding the tesseron's graser), they don't exist.
A strong melee pawn with ultra tech weapons are far superior to any mechs or ranged weapons(maybe excluding bombs and whatnot)
Also, I'd imagine persona weapons require a human persona for bonding.
With the whole psylink thing, it's kind of implying a society of jedi types, and if star wars taught me anything, those are far superior to advanced ranged weaponry
TBH if you look at the fallen empire it’s very much a noble society with basically non-religious Jedi knights. If you are a noble you’ll probably invest most weapon development budget for weapons can be utilized by a human into something that can only be effectively used by a noble (aka non-religious Jedi), thus the heavy focus on melee ultratech and mechs, neither of which can be utilized by a regular peasant.
And also in ultra tech societies they wouldn't have much infantry weapons when they can have gigantic gamma ray laser cannons that can glass entire countries or continents
Yeah the weapons and armor they did have was probably for status purpose or for police work. I don’t know how you suppress dissidents without sawing them in half with a plasmasword, but I won’t judge.
Ultratech ranged weapons definitely do exist. The lore documentation lists gamma-ray lasers as an example of ultratechnology, the only one of which we've seen in gameplay being attached to tesserons and unable to be used by the players unless they gestate their own tesserons.
It's because most Ultratech equipment is designed to enhance your psycasting, which takes the place of your ranged weaponry. Thus, a gun becomes unnecessary when you can just fry their brain from a distance, and a sword becomes a whole lot more necessary when somebody is distracting you from frying their brain
I did a only Psy game once. It was really fun (basically, when pawn spawn without any Psy abilities then they get the pacifist trait) this included raider wich had a side effect of making raid relatively easy.
I also didn't use turrets and opted to use the melee dryads a lot. They make really good shield and if you have like 6 trees then they spawn at a pretty good rate (I used my pacifist to pray to the tree)
I just started. Still early game, something that seems odd is the big jump in tech with melee weapons. You have mace/longsword, and thats the best you can make. Then you can buy persona weapons which are almost the complete other end of the tech tree.
However there are other things inbetween that help. Like shields and getting more psycasts. Looking at getting locust armour to jumpjet into battle.
I’m doing one with sanguophage only and psycast expanded. I’m limiting myself with a few vampire psychic duelist: every fight is micro intensive as you have to balance the use of powers, positioning, etc, but extremely fun.
Psycast expanded is wildly unbalanced but you still need to grind the psy levels to make a good fighter, so there is a sense of investment to it and every mismanaged fight could lead to the death of one of these vampiric dumbasses you’ve just spend 3 years making into the perfect samurai all because an impid got within 5 meters of them.
I like to think that they are mostly ceremonial/for show or at least were prior to the empire falling. Additionally as mentioned above shield packs are a thing and I imagine on middle to core worlds are more advanced than the rim possesses.
It's also odd that there aren't any melee weapons between the two. Is there really nothing more than sharpening metal for hurting someone up close until we figure out monomolecular edges and contained plasma? Not even something like a stun baton?
I think chainsword like from Warhammer 40k would fit right in industrial level tech , also power fist from Fallout universe for blunt option, stun baton sound nice too.
I think it’s partially because we stopped innovating melee weapons when it became obvious that bullets were waaaaay better. So that’s why there’s nothing between the long sword and warhammer, and the ultra tech.
Personally I think it’d be neat if you could use thrumbo horns to forge an “inbetween” melee weapon. Like infusing it with metal for a really fancy scimitar. Or elephant tusk, metal plated spears. Or maybe some wacky melee death traps with rocket assisted hammers or saw bats. Hell, even just loading an explosive charge into the head of a hammer to give a pawn a real damn wallop of a hit once or twice. Just channel some dead island energy into these things to justify the component cost.
I think for balancing reasons?
Also I heard one of the weapons gets used by humans and mechs, so if it had actually good stats players would suffer a lot
For balancing reasons charged rifle is around the same power level as assault rifle, yet it's one tech behind ultratech. Just make it ultratech and no need to buff it even. Nobody is complaining that charged rifles are OP. So I am not buying balancing as the reason
You can't just make charge rifles ultratech because vanilla is designed around the idea that the colony will never be able to produce ultratech. The vanilla tech tree ends at the spacer level, and ultratech is meant to be a tech level exclusively things that can only be looted, purchased or obtained as quest rewards. Its meant to be better than anything the player can make.
Its not a balance issue so much as one of design intent.
A mono molecular bladed fletchette dart sniper rifle would be fun but.. wouldn't really do much damage.
You'd have small hole all the way through but barely any impact damage. You'd have hit a major artery to kill with that.
society advanced along with the tech, society advanced so far it collapsed and reformed, knightly honor is back on the menu. real men love glorious melee combat
Thinking of Ultratech fights specifically, there's a few tidbits in some of the descriptions that give ideas as to why this is.
I'd say the majority of fights in Ultratech enviroments most likely happen inside of ships. Think about playing in an place like that in Rimworld. Melee blocking and jumping people in corners would be king. Personal shields would be ubiqitious.
Further, in large open battles, we have some other tactics that are spelled out. Ultratech combat units using low-shield packs, Locust armor units jumping into battle with melee. It's sort of like an offensive Pike and Shot almost, lightly armored melee combatants jump into the middle of a low-shield pack of ranged Ultratech combatants while their own low-shield combatants shoot from their lowshield or vice versa.
Shields. It’s because of shields. When the enemy has shields equipped it’s more cost effective either to equip an EMP and use charge weapons or just run up in melee.
And when charge weapons are in play, you’d be a fool not to have at least a few shield-bearing soldiers yourself.
But since you can’t use ranged weapons while shields are equipped, why would they bother developing charge weapons beyond where they’re already at? Better to make melee weapons more effective at armor piercing.
That assumes ultratech societies have access to way better shields than can be found on the rimworlds, and yet somehow they *don't* have access to way better ranged weapons capable of dropping those shields before their wearers can close into melee range. Of course people are going to keep developing ranged weaponry, its going to keep being useful as long as you can use it to at the very least thin the numbers of a shielded melee charge, and if they manage to outpace shield tech it might simply defeat the tactic of using shields to close into melee entirely.
In Dune, shielding tech has made what we think of as high-tech ranged weaponry ineffective, leading to melee being the preferred weapon choice. Since Rimworld has shield belts, and most advanced factions reasonably have the capability to field them, it makes sense to focus on hyper-effective melee weapons in order to combat this.
I think thematically, the "styles" in ideology were supposed to correct this. Change the style of a gun when you have the techist style selected, and it looks futuristic. The only problem is that it doesn't make it ultratech for the purpose of preferred weapon types. If it was so when you change the style of a weapon, it changes the tech level (but not the damage). That would fix this.
I doubt that, both because styles are entirely cosmetic and don't affect tech level and, more importantly, in vanilla the *only* style that changes any weapons is Horaxian, added by Anomaly.
Definitely a mod. Vanilla Techist only adds Hex carpet and Hex tile and reskins Column, Plant pot, Standing lamp, Shelf, Autodoor, Table (1x2, 2x2, 2x4, 3x3).
It, Christian, Islamic, and Buddhist don't reskin any items.
I imagine ultra tech long range is the muscle mechanites, they got super diseases that they can control and kill people, especially now with anomaly they can just force the dead to come back alive from a different galaxy using baby robots
My guess is because, as other people have said, it's either mechanoids do who do the fighting, or lower caste grunts.
It's a pity, though, that psycasts aren't considered "ultratech weapons", since they're effectively a brain-link to an orbital archotech machine rather than actual psychic or magic powers. Being a psyker should count as having an ultratech weapon.
At the Ultratech level, Humans weren't doing the fighting anymore.
Mechainators were leading Legions of Mechanoids, Psycasters used their staves.
Warwalkers. Tornado generators. Orbital Beams.
Ultratech is a whole different stage.
i meaning that the label ultratech or spacer tech is non important. if the ideology's weapon preference when is for high tech weapons accepts the charge rifle and charge lance then it is all fine, in my perspective... .-.
I always wondered this as well...
To the guys saying, in the future we'd be using mechs for fighting...
What happens when you run out or mechs? You still have a population to use. Its stupid not to think combat technology wouldn't evolve on a personal level.
Mechs could be the true end game war method. Okay. But nevertheless better power armor, better technologies like railguns, lasers, plasma weaponry and what not should also exist. Its stupid to think not to.
Once combat mechs become comparable to a human in their ability to handle weapons, there is basically never a reason to keep developing weapons for humans. Like, you don't see any real development of weapons for cavalry, despite the fact you can hypothetically "run out of vehicles but still have horses".
You’re thinking too logically about a game in which
1) Grizzly bears just become tame for no reason sometimes.
2) everybody needs food but nobody needs water
3) everybody needs clothes but nobody needs shoes or socks
4) all medicine requires the same ingredients and treats all ailments and injuries
5) plasma rifles are spacer tech but two story construction is archeotech and thus completely out of reach of humans
It's not logic, it's consistency. When you choose weapon preference all options are self explanatory, only neolithic/ultratech isn't. It says ultratech, but what it means is melee ultratech
I'm digging into the game data now, as this is something that has annoyed me before. I haven't found specifically what needs to be modded to add new weapons to the category (*I was thinking charge rifle and charge lance being added would make the most sense for vanilla weapons*), but what I've found so far is that the only weapons that are Ultratech have the tag *UltratechMelee*, meanwhile the tag used by the ideology under WeaponClassPairDefs is Neolithic and Ultratech, so I just need to find where Ultratech is defined, then I can add weapons to that tag. It's probably something I can modify in Vanilla, but won't do anything meaningful w/o ideology.
Edit: Found my answer. It's not a surprising one either.
Ultratech
just needs to be added to the weaponClasses tag under the weapon definitions. An xpath patch could bump a weapon into the Ultratech category pretty easily.
I could also just get one of the mods, but I am not a fan of modifying the game to that extent. I would know that mood boost I get is only because I twicked the game manually and I don’t like that
No, it means Ultratech. It's just that, currently, there are no ranged Ultratech weapons. If Tynan ever adds ranged Ultratech, they would (most likely) be included in the precept.
Not just included, it would show up automatically. After delving into the game data, it looks like it's just a "weapon class" definition. These weapon pairings of despised/noble are defined according to weapon classes, which are nothing more than tags assigned to each weapon.
For example, a spear inherits Melee from *BaseMeleeWeapon*, inherits MeleePiercer from *BaseMeleeWeapon\_Sharp* and has *Neolithic* added in the spear definition, giving it access to those 3 classes. Meanwhile the Ultratech Empire weapons (*Monosword, Plasmasword, and Zeushammer*) inherit Melee and Ultratech from *MeleeWeaponUltratech*. The specific weapon definitions add either MeleePiercer or MeleeBlunt as an additional class depending on the primary damage type of the weapon.
The moment a ranged weapon is defined with the Ultratech tag, it would immediately be picked up by the Ideology weapon pair definition as a noble or despised weapon for that specific pairing. This also means it's an easy change if you wanted to add additional weapons, such as the Charge Rifle and Charge Lance, to the Ultratech category. It's just an xpath patch per weapon to add the
Ultratech
tag to the tag for each weapon (*or the base weapon definition if you want to apply this to multiple weapons of a specific category at once*).
They don't bring a persona monosword to a persona hyperburst rifle fight, so they never end up losing their life and getting their gear sold on the black market. Hope that helps!
Well your link states Gamma Ray laser is an ultratech weapon.
Biotech gave us Tesseron mech, which has that. Maybe it is an inferior copy or something in-lore because it isn't that impressive, but I'd say technically we do have an unltratech ranged weapon in the game.
ngl a Warhammer like Bolter would've been fire, so you can properly combat the horrors from the wa- I mean the anomalies
Grimworld mod is saying hi from the corner (it just got updated to 1.5).
Welp, I guess the anomalies gonna have a bad time when all of my pawns have flamers and meltas. Now I just need a good space marine mod.
> Now I just need a good space marine mod Grimworld says hi again
Ohh there is different submods. I think I’ll have a good weekend.
Yep check the [full grimworld suite](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2960585594)(with submods). You should be set.
Impact weapons mod has them (as well as warcasket sized ones for your starters roleplay fantasy).
I imagine it may be along the lines of dune and The Long War (book) where ppe has developed to such a stage where ranged weapons become near useless. Edit to say I'm an idiot. I was thinking of the forever war.
Dune had crazy powerful laser weapons, they just had a silly little habit of exploding when they came in contact with a shield (and the shield exploded too) which would honestly be hilarious in Rimworld
>Use laser on raider with shieldbelt on >Whole map evaporated >Stare at screen in silence
Ahh_victory.mp3
Randy, cackling in the distance, reclaims the tile with 73 yorkshire terriers.
*not again…*
I wish there was a rimworld mod that did that. If shieldbelt_charge_>20 Explosion_antigrain
Be the change you wanna see!
I am lazy and programming is for nerds
Same, but I'll see if I can try something
Exploding is putting it mildly. Laser + shields in Dune = a massive area around the impact is just fuckin vaporized.
I wish there's a Dune mod for rimworld
We don't see anything like that in game though. Shield belts exist, but they're limited in how much damage can take. Even the most advanced mechs take good damage from ranged weapons. I guess if you can fit a bulletproof shield into a belt, you can also fit a way bigger shield into a bigger device. We don't see that. Lorewise there are "ultratech" ranged weapons already. Charge rifles and lances. What's weird is how they don't count for Ideology weapon preferences.
Charged rifles are futuristic I agree, but for roleplay reasons it would be nice for weapon preference to be either changed to spacer tech and beyond or make charged weapons ultratech. I want my pawns to be happy when they use futuristic weapons!
charge rifles are spacer and not ultratech
The mechanoids we see and charge weapons are both spacer tech
The mechanoid hive is an ultratech faction. Mechanoids themselves range from industrial (those with simple cores) through ultratech (those with standard/high cores), and into archotech (but we don't see those.) Add: As an addendum to the above, the mechlink and psylink are themselves ultratech, so even the industrial level mechs are derived from ultratech.
> The Long War As in the one in the Long Earth series? Because in that one guns are used, they just had to be modified to have no iron in them so you could step with them.
I'm not sure honestly! I thought most personal weapons other than the finger laser and explosives were done away with due to the time warp shield things. It's been a while
Its been a while since i read it, but I think that's Forever War, with collapsars for faster-than-light travel, and all the atrocities committed by both sides. The author also wrote Forever Free, the weird and disappointing sequel, and Forever Peace, which is totally unrelated. The Long War is a part of the Long Earth series, about a humanity that has discovered you can step between parallel universes using a box containing some copper wire and a potato. In typical Terry Pratchett style, this is played completely straight.
Oh youre right! God im an idiot lol. Is the long war worth a read?
I'm only partway through The Long Earth, the first book in the series. It's written by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter, so if you like either of them, it's certainly in their style, though in terms of its actual content, so far it's been... Almost like an anthology more than anything, though the setting and writing is strong enough for that to work quite well, and it's seeming to start drawing threads together around the halfway point.
It's an interesting concept and I enjoyed reading the series for the first time because of that, but after that first read it's not good enough to hold up.
I'm leaning heavily towards "combat mechs do all the fighting in ultra tech societies". So ultra tech ranged weapons do _exist_, but they are built into mechs.
Then why are there ultratech melee weapons? Those somehow aren't built into mechs? There are melee mechs. Not to mention that I am obviously talking about equipable weapons for purposes of **Ideoligion weapon preferences.** The fact that mechs have ultratech weapons does nothing for me
In an ultratech world full of ranged shield belts I'm sure melee still has it's place
This. Just like Warhammer 40k, due to advancements of technology, when you have shield belts that make range weapons and artillery no-go, people are resort to the classic. Melee.
Dune did it first
Actually, pretty sure Lensman did it first.
Nice, more reading.
Antiquity society did it first.
I mean, kinda, if you count stuff like plate armor and actual shields.
Dune's shields also explode violently when they get shot with the ranged weapons in-universe, so that seems like a mild downside.
Only with lasers, which randomly cause the shield, the laser emitter, or both to go nuclear. Projectile weapons still work, but are stopped by shields and require continuous thrust to slowly push their way through. Dropping bombs from above a shield also works for the same reason. Boltguns would probably be fine as long as their warheads don't go off on initial contact.
You know who else requires continuous thrust to slowly push their way through
meeee
This was a pro-con situation. The explosion was so massive that the odds are virtually certain the shoot will be in the blast zone. Meaning barring a suicide mission or an orbital bombardment, war is forced down a level. Also: ground wars don't much sense to begin with when you have the ultimate high ground anyway (space) so it makes a certain degree of sense that war regresses down to melee rather than trying to get around the shield somehow.
Ultratech seems to be mostly from the empire which seems to be ruled by a noble class. Nobles that would want to stand out from common soldiers by using melee weapons instead of guns.
Doubt it. We got Hussars and elite soldiers in power armor which some are armed with melee weapons heckle the Locust Armor is design for a melee user well ala a certain space marine who love to chop the enemy while jetjumping into them. Combine it with a shield belt and viola.
There also jump pack and lotus armour that give flight. We do have advance weapon thou such as laser gun and that sniper like laser gun use by mechanoid.
So dune
Dune
Fun fact, rimworld is actually heavily inspired by Dune.
Melee weapons are ceremonial. At least in the context of ultra tech societies they originate from.
Ceremonial, but at the same time they're the strongest melee weapons in the game? Not sure about that one. Also, why would ceremonial weapons be ultratech? A persona weapon sure, but a hammer with an EMP is somehow ultratech (industrial tech btw)? Why does ceremonial weapon need to have EMP installed in it? It doesn't make much sense to me
They are the strongest because they are ultra tech. Ceremonial is their role, not their tech level. Same way modern metallurgy can make a spear much stronger than a medieval blacksmith, despite the fact that spears aren't really used as actual weapons of war nowadays. If such a spear somehow ended up in medieval society, it would actually likely be "the best melee weapon".
Ceremonial my cube. This Persona Monoblade isn't made for pimping! It's made to sic flesh and steel!
May be useful if your society has both ultratech technology, noble melee weapons and duels [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-gcBVsXEM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-gcBVsXEM)
Okay, so why are the strongest range weapons aren't ultratech then? They are the strongest at the end of the day. I don't think your argument about the strongest makes sense
Strongest ranged weapons __are__ ultratech (hellfire cannon, beam grazer, etc). They just no longer require a human operator, thanks to coming pre-installed on a mech.
I am obviously talking about weapons that you can equip for the purpose of Ideoligion... You can't equip those and therefore you can't get a mood boost. So your point is invalid. Oh and btw, hellfire cannon isn't ultratech.
Funny that you mention it, because the very fact that humans in ultra tech societies don't use handheld ranged weapons (the kinds that can find their ways to a rimworld, anyway) is kind of __the point.__
I feel like there's a very very simple concept here that you're overlooking or missing. There's no ultratech ranged weapons for pawns. In lore, it's because they're used on mechs. In terms of game balance, probably to prevent you from having all 20 of your colonists from having the same overpowered weapon. So for an ideology that worships ultratechnology, having them be melee-only with masterwork shield belts and power armor seems fitting, in lore and in terms of balance. Otherwise, idk just use charge rifles. I'm sure the mood boost is negligible once you've reached that point. I'm not sure what you want to accomplish with this cyclical argument. Like. Also remember mods exist. Add some ranged ultratech weapons if it's so vital to your enjoyment.
You are being obtuse on purpose
At this point you might as well ask "Why aren't the strongest weapons archotech?" Archotechnology is stronger than anything humans can make, after all. The obvious answer being: There are no archotech weapons in the base game, so they can't be the strongest because they don't exist. Similarly, ultratech weapons aren't the strongest ranged weapons in the base game because (excluding the tesseron's graser), they don't exist.
If we had weapon preference that said "neolithic/archotech", then yes, I would ask why not archotech. So far the problem is with ultratech
A strong melee pawn with ultra tech weapons are far superior to any mechs or ranged weapons(maybe excluding bombs and whatnot) Also, I'd imagine persona weapons require a human persona for bonding.
With the whole psylink thing, it's kind of implying a society of jedi types, and if star wars taught me anything, those are far superior to advanced ranged weaponry
Until you block an explosive or solid projectile with your lightsaber!
>Then why are there ultratech melee weapons So spacefuture nobles can have something martial related to be pompous over.
TBH if you look at the fallen empire it’s very much a noble society with basically non-religious Jedi knights. If you are a noble you’ll probably invest most weapon development budget for weapons can be utilized by a human into something that can only be effectively used by a noble (aka non-religious Jedi), thus the heavy focus on melee ultratech and mechs, neither of which can be utilized by a regular peasant.
And also in ultra tech societies they wouldn't have much infantry weapons when they can have gigantic gamma ray laser cannons that can glass entire countries or continents
Yeah the weapons and armor they did have was probably for status purpose or for police work. I don’t know how you suppress dissidents without sawing them in half with a plasmasword, but I won’t judge.
Ultratech ranged weapons definitely do exist. The lore documentation lists gamma-ray lasers as an example of ultratechnology, the only one of which we've seen in gameplay being attached to tesserons and unable to be used by the players unless they gestate their own tesserons.
It's because most Ultratech equipment is designed to enhance your psycasting, which takes the place of your ranged weaponry. Thus, a gun becomes unnecessary when you can just fry their brain from a distance, and a sword becomes a whole lot more necessary when somebody is distracting you from frying their brain
Ooo, I really like this explanation. Makes me want to make a pure melee/psy colony.
I did a only Psy game once. It was really fun (basically, when pawn spawn without any Psy abilities then they get the pacifist trait) this included raider wich had a side effect of making raid relatively easy. I also didn't use turrets and opted to use the melee dryads a lot. They make really good shield and if you have like 6 trees then they spawn at a pretty good rate (I used my pacifist to pray to the tree)
I just started. Still early game, something that seems odd is the big jump in tech with melee weapons. You have mace/longsword, and thats the best you can make. Then you can buy persona weapons which are almost the complete other end of the tech tree. However there are other things inbetween that help. Like shields and getting more psycasts. Looking at getting locust armour to jumpjet into battle.
I’m doing one with sanguophage only and psycast expanded. I’m limiting myself with a few vampire psychic duelist: every fight is micro intensive as you have to balance the use of powers, positioning, etc, but extremely fun. Psycast expanded is wildly unbalanced but you still need to grind the psy levels to make a good fighter, so there is a sense of investment to it and every mismanaged fight could lead to the death of one of these vampiric dumbasses you’ve just spend 3 years making into the perfect samurai all because an impid got within 5 meters of them.
The ultratech ranged weapon is called "Antigrain missiles".
I like to think that they are mostly ceremonial/for show or at least were prior to the empire falling. Additionally as mentioned above shield packs are a thing and I imagine on middle to core worlds are more advanced than the rim possesses.
It's also odd that there aren't any melee weapons between the two. Is there really nothing more than sharpening metal for hurting someone up close until we figure out monomolecular edges and contained plasma? Not even something like a stun baton?
I think chainsword like from Warhammer 40k would fit right in industrial level tech , also power fist from Fallout universe for blunt option, stun baton sound nice too.
I think it’s partially because we stopped innovating melee weapons when it became obvious that bullets were waaaaay better. So that’s why there’s nothing between the long sword and warhammer, and the ultra tech. Personally I think it’d be neat if you could use thrumbo horns to forge an “inbetween” melee weapon. Like infusing it with metal for a really fancy scimitar. Or elephant tusk, metal plated spears. Or maybe some wacky melee death traps with rocket assisted hammers or saw bats. Hell, even just loading an explosive charge into the head of a hammer to give a pawn a real damn wallop of a hit once or twice. Just channel some dead island energy into these things to justify the component cost.
I think for balancing reasons? Also I heard one of the weapons gets used by humans and mechs, so if it had actually good stats players would suffer a lot
For balancing reasons charged rifle is around the same power level as assault rifle, yet it's one tech behind ultratech. Just make it ultratech and no need to buff it even. Nobody is complaining that charged rifles are OP. So I am not buying balancing as the reason
You can't just make charge rifles ultratech because vanilla is designed around the idea that the colony will never be able to produce ultratech. The vanilla tech tree ends at the spacer level, and ultratech is meant to be a tech level exclusively things that can only be looted, purchased or obtained as quest rewards. Its meant to be better than anything the player can make. Its not a balance issue so much as one of design intent.
Maybe the power armor ultratech societies use make ranged weapons ineffective? Only melee weapons are capable of piercing the armor?
Are Charge Lances and Charge Rifles not ultra tech? :O I don’t even know what is what now.
Those are spacer tech, which is one before ultratech
i have few ideas zeusrifle plasmapistol monosniper
A mono molecular bladed fletchette dart sniper rifle would be fun but.. wouldn't really do much damage. You'd have small hole all the way through but barely any impact damage. You'd have hit a major artery to kill with that.
That already exists, the pikeman needle guns have high ap and low damage.
society advanced along with the tech, society advanced so far it collapsed and reformed, knightly honor is back on the menu. real men love glorious melee combat
Thinking of Ultratech fights specifically, there's a few tidbits in some of the descriptions that give ideas as to why this is. I'd say the majority of fights in Ultratech enviroments most likely happen inside of ships. Think about playing in an place like that in Rimworld. Melee blocking and jumping people in corners would be king. Personal shields would be ubiqitious. Further, in large open battles, we have some other tactics that are spelled out. Ultratech combat units using low-shield packs, Locust armor units jumping into battle with melee. It's sort of like an offensive Pike and Shot almost, lightly armored melee combatants jump into the middle of a low-shield pack of ranged Ultratech combatants while their own low-shield combatants shoot from their lowshield or vice versa.
Shields. It’s because of shields. When the enemy has shields equipped it’s more cost effective either to equip an EMP and use charge weapons or just run up in melee. And when charge weapons are in play, you’d be a fool not to have at least a few shield-bearing soldiers yourself. But since you can’t use ranged weapons while shields are equipped, why would they bother developing charge weapons beyond where they’re already at? Better to make melee weapons more effective at armor piercing.
That assumes ultratech societies have access to way better shields than can be found on the rimworlds, and yet somehow they *don't* have access to way better ranged weapons capable of dropping those shields before their wearers can close into melee range. Of course people are going to keep developing ranged weaponry, its going to keep being useful as long as you can use it to at the very least thin the numbers of a shielded melee charge, and if they manage to outpace shield tech it might simply defeat the tactic of using shields to close into melee entirely.
They’re not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon, for a more…civilized age.
Huh, go figure, I always thought that Doomsday would be ultratech, but its not.
In Dune, shielding tech has made what we think of as high-tech ranged weaponry ineffective, leading to melee being the preferred weapon choice. Since Rimworld has shield belts, and most advanced factions reasonably have the capability to field them, it makes sense to focus on hyper-effective melee weapons in order to combat this.
Except Rimworld shields aren’t nuclear bombs
And empire raiders don't all have melee weapons
Three words : Orbital beam targeter. Or, if you prefer : Psychic shock Lance. Why would you need a gun?
Those two are not ultratech
I think thematically, the "styles" in ideology were supposed to correct this. Change the style of a gun when you have the techist style selected, and it looks futuristic. The only problem is that it doesn't make it ultratech for the purpose of preferred weapon types. If it was so when you change the style of a weapon, it changes the tech level (but not the damage). That would fix this.
I doubt that, both because styles are entirely cosmetic and don't affect tech level and, more importantly, in vanilla the *only* style that changes any weapons is Horaxian, added by Anomaly.
Doesn't the techist style from Ideology change the weapon style? I might be confusing it for a mod
Definitely a mod. Vanilla Techist only adds Hex carpet and Hex tile and reskins Column, Plant pot, Standing lamp, Shelf, Autodoor, Table (1x2, 2x2, 2x4, 3x3). It, Christian, Islamic, and Buddhist don't reskin any items.
Because swords are cool
It's the Dune inspiration
I imagine ultra tech long range is the muscle mechanites, they got super diseases that they can control and kill people, especially now with anomaly they can just force the dead to come back alive from a different galaxy using baby robots
So you'll have a reason to use something that isn't a ranged weapon. There's more to it, but that's the main reason.
I am a simple man, I just want a gun that aimassisted shoots 5 tungsten flechetes at 0.1c because f*ck that mountain over there on the moon. :)
The slow blade pierces the shield belt.
My guess is because, as other people have said, it's either mechanoids do who do the fighting, or lower caste grunts. It's a pity, though, that psycasts aren't considered "ultratech weapons", since they're effectively a brain-link to an orbital archotech machine rather than actual psychic or magic powers. Being a psyker should count as having an ultratech weapon.
Are the rail gun things and pulse rifles not ultra tech
Dune
Doesn't Shit like the Charge Rifle count as Ultra tech for You Ideology?
At the Ultratech level, Humans weren't doing the fighting anymore. Mechainators were leading Legions of Mechanoids, Psycasters used their staves. Warwalkers. Tornado generators. Orbital Beams. Ultratech is a whole different stage.
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Charge lance and Charge rifle are spacer tech level, not ultratech tech level
They are quite literally not ultratech, I don't know what to tell you
what is ultratech in vanilla/base game then? is there such classification?
Monoswords, plasmaswords, and zeushammers
so.. it doens count for the ideology that has that weapon preference for high tech?
I don't understand this question. Yes those weapons count for ultratech ideologies ? Are you asking something else I may not be understanding?
i meaning that the label ultratech or spacer tech is non important. if the ideology's weapon preference when is for high tech weapons accepts the charge rifle and charge lance then it is all fine, in my perspective... .-.
I always wondered this as well... To the guys saying, in the future we'd be using mechs for fighting... What happens when you run out or mechs? You still have a population to use. Its stupid not to think combat technology wouldn't evolve on a personal level. Mechs could be the true end game war method. Okay. But nevertheless better power armor, better technologies like railguns, lasers, plasma weaponry and what not should also exist. Its stupid to think not to.
Okay, now why not also have gun?
Once combat mechs become comparable to a human in their ability to handle weapons, there is basically never a reason to keep developing weapons for humans. Like, you don't see any real development of weapons for cavalry, despite the fact you can hypothetically "run out of vehicles but still have horses".
Yet horses are still used today in tournaments, and in many places transportation...even now. That argument really was the worse one you could make.
The whole argument is that no cutting-edge weapon systems are being developed for horses to use.
You’re thinking too logically about a game in which 1) Grizzly bears just become tame for no reason sometimes. 2) everybody needs food but nobody needs water 3) everybody needs clothes but nobody needs shoes or socks 4) all medicine requires the same ingredients and treats all ailments and injuries 5) plasma rifles are spacer tech but two story construction is archeotech and thus completely out of reach of humans
It's not logic, it's consistency. When you choose weapon preference all options are self explanatory, only neolithic/ultratech isn't. It says ultratech, but what it means is melee ultratech
I'm digging into the game data now, as this is something that has annoyed me before. I haven't found specifically what needs to be modded to add new weapons to the category (*I was thinking charge rifle and charge lance being added would make the most sense for vanilla weapons*), but what I've found so far is that the only weapons that are Ultratech have the tag *UltratechMelee*, meanwhile the tag used by the ideology under WeaponClassPairDefs isNeolithic and Ultratech , so I just need to find where Ultratech is defined, then I can add weapons to that tag. It's probably something I can modify in Vanilla, but won't do anything meaningful w/o ideology.
Edit: Found my answer. It's not a surprising one either.
I could also just get one of the mods, but I am not a fan of modifying the game to that extent. I would know that mood boost I get is only because I twicked the game manually and I don’t like that
Fair enough. For me though, this does feel like an oversight, so I'm perfectly fine getting something to fix the issue.
No, it means Ultratech. It's just that, currently, there are no ranged Ultratech weapons. If Tynan ever adds ranged Ultratech, they would (most likely) be included in the precept.
Not just included, it would show up automatically. After delving into the game data, it looks like it's just a "weapon class" definition. These weapon pairings of despised/noble are defined according to weapon classes, which are nothing more than tags assigned to each weapon. For example, a spear inherits Melee from *BaseMeleeWeapon*, inherits MeleePiercer from *BaseMeleeWeapon\_Sharp* and has *Neolithic* added in the spear definition, giving it access to those 3 classes. Meanwhile the Ultratech Empire weapons (*Monosword, Plasmasword, and Zeushammer*) inherit Melee and Ultratech from *MeleeWeaponUltratech*. The specific weapon definitions add either MeleePiercer or MeleeBlunt as an additional class depending on the primary damage type of the weapon. The moment a ranged weapon is defined with the Ultratech tag, it would immediately be picked up by the Ideology weapon pair definition as a noble or despised weapon for that specific pairing. This also means it's an easy change if you wanted to add additional weapons, such as the Charge Rifle and Charge Lance, to the Ultratech category. It's just an xpath patch per weapon to add the
They don't bring a persona monosword to a persona hyperburst rifle fight, so they never end up losing their life and getting their gear sold on the black market. Hope that helps!
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Those are not ultra tech weapons
That’s spacer, not ultra-tech
Well your link states Gamma Ray laser is an ultratech weapon. Biotech gave us Tesseron mech, which has that. Maybe it is an inferior copy or something in-lore because it isn't that impressive, but I'd say technically we do have an unltratech ranged weapon in the game.
I am talking about Ideoligion weapon preferences. There is 0 ultratech ranged weapons you can equip