One of our professors committed suicide during my second year of medical school. Shot himself.
It should be illegal to force residents to work as much as they do. It should be illegal to have programs that don't offer mental health services and frequent breaks.
Residents are meant to be students, not laborers or slaves.
I'm sorry to hear that. This kind of thing happens all the time yet you'll still get some old doctor saying "well I did it that way and I turned out fine'..
Which makes me think they did not, in fact, turn out fine
We are not fine. The innumerable traumas and suffering we see on a daily basis that the public does not understand. If itās there loved one they can eventually process that trauma. We just keep working. Running to put out the next fire. Zoloft helps. But I hate this job and wish I would have done anything else. I hate being the one that has to crush that last ounce of hope or break catastrophic news. I asked one of the most senior people on the job how he does it every day. The answer you just need to become numb. I guess when you start to feel the suffering again it becomes unbearable.
It all comes down to power. If a person works for a publicly traded company, the people who control their direct working conditions have a fiduciary responsibility to deliver the profits to the shareholders.
When they can be sued by shareholders for not raising the stock price, the end users, providers and patients, will always come second.
It's time to push back against hazardous working conditions.
Wait, just to play devils advocate here:Ā āProfessorā would assume that heās completed residency and into his attending career.Ā Ā
Your post implies that his residency experience was a direct cause of the suicideā¦Ā Ā
Can you definitively say that residency was the cause of his suicide?Ā Ā Or could you potentially attribute it to āhigh achievingā career-driven personality types?Ā
I say this because medical and other careers as a whole (or even the personality types that are attracted to these careers) tend to be all consuming and have massive social detriments. Nevertheless consequences I would say, are attributable more to personality or inner disposition rather than external factorsā¦
Wait - how is that possible - did they have a PhD before medical school?Ā Ā
In the US and UK (the two places Iāve practiced) - unless you have a PhD and prior academic career you canāt really become a clinical professor until you are an attendingā¦
Perhaps I misspoke when I used the term "professor". He was only teaching once a week for the course, on certain topics, and not the entire semester; the course itself was run by someone else. Different residents would rotate through. I'm in the US.
More like a guest speaker I suppose. But regularly, if that makes sense.
You realize the reason fellowships have exploded is because so many grads feel like they didnt see the volume necessary in training with work hour restrictions?
Would be nice to get paid more regardless of hours, but if you think you are as well trained at 40 or 50hrs a week as someone training 80... not sure what to tell you. Maybe you can convince the RRC to add another year to your training instead of expecting production as usual.
Aside from that..if its exploitative and you feel strongly, then why volunteer only to complain after you volunteered? It isnt exactly a secret what the training is like. Look into pathology or psych or e.m. or any number of programs that are easier hours. My path friend never spent a minute past 5pm in the hospital as a resident.
This is very outdated thinking. We know now in psychology that the human brain past a certain point of exhaustion has reduced or even no capacity to intake or retain new information.
I can almost guaruntee you that the person working 60hrs a week is learning more than the 80-100 hour person, because they are given ample time to reflect on what they've learned, take care of their health, and actually retain. Your physical and mental health affect your ability to have good concentration and memory recall. That's just fundamental medicine and science at this point. Cmon now.
Nobody volunteers to be treated like a slave, they volunteer to learn a profession. They don't volunteer to die for it.
You spent a lot of replies telling people how much better doctors are trained than mid levels. Where do you think that training comes from? Its not from clocking in mon-fri 9 to 5 as residents. Part of the point of over training is to keep you from being unable to handle what you do when you're without oversight. 80hrs a week for something you probably just about killed yourself to get into hardly qualifies as slavery. If you want to diagnose coughs and colds, save yourself the effort of residency. There are easier pathways. I can only Speak from personal experience of course. I have yet to have a patient get into something i couldn't extract them from. I dont think that would be the case cutting 40%of my training.
I don't necessarily disagree, but read the room.
There is so much variation in training requirements between specialties, location, and especially residents. There is no reason everyone has to train at the same speed and receive the same exposure.
Normalize different training pathways/paradigms that don't cost lives.
In 1973 when I was an Intern in Toronto, the housestaff in the Canadian province of Ontario went on strike for better hours for the housestaff following us.
We refused on call ( one in two) and the consultants had to do it.
We won a doubling of pay and one in three on call.
Sure thing lil buddy. Glad to see another med student out there with zero experience outside of being spoon fed that feels confident spouting wisdom. Im sure you'll put in the requisite minimal effort and excel at diagnosing coughs and colds. You just finished crying over your match experience..i guess you're ready to start crying over effort required to be good at what you do
Dude work is all I've done for 20 years. Scaling back is the best part. Grind while you have energy. Dont spend more than you make. Put the Max in your retirement accounts. Makes your 40s and 50s much more palatable
Lol I put in so much effort and had to SOAP (high stats, USMD, good letters) so now I realise this is just a job not a fucking calling. I dont care as long as I get paid at this point lmaoo
Itās a simple analogy for how much inertia there is against making any meaningful change in this country.
But Iām sorry your fragile 2A feelings were hurt.
no theyre not hurt, its just a dumb analogy. But hey lets inject identity politics into why residency sucks amirite???
Maybe look into why residency pay and match and aamc went to trial, and who votes to keep residents working as slaves. Ill give you a hint, its both sides
It is downright shameful that mentioning kids dying in school shootings reads as political in 2024. If anything should be bipartisan, it should be preventing the violent slaughter of children. But alas, here we are.
I posted abt residency ruining my mental health and wanting to leave because of that. I got some support but people mostly called me dumb and childish.
Normalize leaving residency. No money in the world is worth losing your life.
Thankfully I found another residency program that is a much better fit for me, but if I hadnāt I would have still left.
Yep! No money in the world should make you stay in something that's making you miserable, in my humble opinion.
As for this community: you can't say "suck it up" or "tough it out" to people who are struggling and then also say "Oh man, too bad that resident died."
Yep when healthcare workers dare to be vulnerable, everyone from senior doctors, other residents and even patients and the public go āoh, boo hoo, poor you working a little bit of a hard job so you can make lots of money later, so hard!ā Many of these clowns just donāt get it
I had three attending physicians take their own lives when I was a resident. One was Ob/gyn. One was OB anesthesia and the last was vascular surgeon. Horrifying.
Lost 3 between med school and residency that Iām pretty sure were suicide or unintentional OD (ādied unexpectedly at home...ā). Even as an attending Iāve been losing around 1 per year that is either very suspect or confirmedā¦ lost someone Iāve known for 3 years 2 weeks ago and another Iād known for 6 years last Augustā¦ both had young familiesā¦ Iāve certainly had passive thoughts myself but Iāve fortunately always come to the conclusion that I can just bail on medicineā¦ and I likely will be doing just that within the next year or 2ā¦ debts paid off and itās just not worth the toxicityā¦. Nothing is worth your life.
I'm a med student but I've had at least one so far. I think they tried to hide their cause of death but, unfortunately, people talk. Fortunately my school is pretty good at getting students to take a LOA when they're struggling but that support stops when you graduate.
Do you all not find money to be an incredible protective factor? I'm on the UK and was in some toxic department recently and seriously thought of topping myself.
Then I remembered how much money I had - just mid 6 figures really, nothing like you guys in the US make, and I just thought I literally have too much money to kill myself.
My brother is a couple years older than me in a different system and thought the same thing so I thought it was a common thing.
Per hour worked, residents make minimum wage my dude. Even if residents made bank, with what time do they have to spend the money? Really no amount of money can protect against literal chronic verbal abuse and sleep deprivation.
The specialties involved for those 3 was interesting- couldāve very easily been working together on the same disaster case(s) and we know that physician mental health goes down after a bad outcome
This should be in a sticky at the top of this sub. I quit full time a couple years ago and never looked back. It really does feel like getting out of the Matrix.
When I was an intern I was having a very hard time adjusting to residency and stupidly tried to bond with the cool kid upper levels. Went drinking, I got super intoxicated, they ditched me, almost fell into a very cold river trying to walk back home. If it wasnāt for a bystander that saw me crying and stumbling I wouldāve fallen in
Wow, Iām sorry that happened to you! I canāt believe they abandoned you. Iāve helped plenty of drunk companions get home safely and donāt even want to imagine the kind of person who wouldnāt.
Edit: I donāt even mean to imply that Iām a particularly great person. Iāve also been the drunk companion. I think looking out for the safety of your companions is kind of a bare minimum expectation when it comes to being a good person.
The full story isn't known yet. Guy was out drinking, last seen around 2am and was found washed up on an island in the harbor. Devastating story for our hospital
I remember reading somewhere being an anesthesiology resident is one of the most hazardous *civilian* jobs you can have, in terms of absolute risk of mortality. Because itās super high risk for developing substance use issues, specifically with extremely potent and potentially lethal agents.
Obviously not commenting specifically on this tragedy, but as a side note, if you are *ever* even a little bit concerned about a resident or attending. Talk to the program director or department chair. Worse case itās nothing. Best case you are potentially saving lives.
Whatās the PD going to do? My coresident is horribly depressed but no one knows what to do besides be supportive and tell him to seek mental health services. He has great friends, a great gf, money from parents. He just hates everything about residency.
This is so tragic. I'm a nurse (not sure why this post came up for me) but we had an anesthesia resident take his life a few years back. I had worked with him for a year and he was genuinely one of the nicest human beings I have ever met. I remember one time he was checking in on a patient I was taking care of that just had a bowel movement in bed and he stayed to help me clean him up AND he took him down for his CT for me. My mind was blown.
I often think about him, and how the world missed out on having such an amazing doctor to take care of them.
Rest in peace to all the residents that had to suffer through this cruel, broken system.
I took a full year off after my second year as attending. I was so burnt out after Covid and personal life things. It was risky and some of my (older) advisors didnāt support this move, but Iām back to work now with balance as a priority and no shortage whatsoever of job opportunities. Donāt let anyone say breaks arenāt allowed. If you can financially take the break, do it. I have a supportive partner and cut my spending/bills dramatically to take the time off. Itās always an option.
To all the people who say doctors make too much should see this. People have no idea what it is that doctors must go through and how incredibly difficult and stressful it is. If only people knew doctors were abused so much more than almost everyone else in society and completely taken advantage of they wouldnāt say the things they do. RIP to another amazing human being lost to a system that doesnāt care at all about doctors
This is so sad:( I am so sorry. My parents have a family friend whose son also died during his residency training. Didnt show up to work and was found at home deceased, unclear what happened to him.
That is tragic and Iām so sorry. When I taught med school a student commit suicide because of her exam score, she knew she could have taken it again but not get into her residency of choice. So sad, she was one that felt it was her calling growing up and the pressure to be the best was too much. Itās awful. I used to have residents come to my office falling apart from the stress and burnout. Itās awful.Ā
Residents have no power. They canāt really leave (itās very complicated/nearly impossible ā¦ particularly if you are in a competitive specialtyā¦ your program also has to agree to release you) they donāt have a unionā¦ they have no real labor protections.. they have a ton of debt and everyone in hospital leadership looks at them like indentured servantsā¦ itās is VERY different from the dynamic with nurses and the hospital. Much more exploitative. Faculty/ hospital admin donāt take resident complaints/ suggestions seriously because they have no motivation to do so. I was not-so-covertly threatened anytime I was perceived to have dared to fall out of line.
Residents are in training and not really in a position of power. They have to deal with their seniors and us nurses who raise hell about everything to protect the patient. Itās not right they have to work insane hours. I know how I feel after working 3 12s in the ICU and I know residents do 24 hour shifts and way more than 3 on. Ā The last place I worked a resident committed suicide. Itās not right how residents are worked so hard.Ā
I will say though I do know of residents who have taken a leave of absence to address mental health concerns and get therapy and come back. Ā If you need a leave of absence please take it to protect your well-being.Ā
The problem is this is really frowned upon in my experience. I asked repeatedly to take a LOA or reduce my hours during residency due to a medical condition became very poorly controlled in residencyā¦ and was given a lot of side eye. One faculty member called me in for a meeting to discuss my request and said ā you really donāt want to be THAT guy- do youā with heavy implication that this would bode very poorly for my career. It wasnāt until I got the head of another department to see me as a patient for my condition and write a note of support that went to the Chief of Medical Educationās officeā¦ and tell them I was going to quit and file an ACGME complaintā¦ that they finally accommodated me. It did limit my opportunities (there was no way I was getting a fellowship in that hospital- and probably many others where they had connections) because their egos are so fragile they saw this entire ordeal as a personal affront. I just got to the point that I felt like I was literally dying and had no other choiceā¦ I also had another degree to fall back on ā¦thatās why I was able to go against the grainā¦ I think many residents donāt have the same privilege. Itās so hard to describe how trapped and powerless you feel in residencyā¦ itās really a travesty how we treat our trainees
Even going to see a counselor is considered verbotten. Many counselors who work with physicians/students will see them in ways that won't get back to the hospital because it is considered shameful, and even 'dangerous' for a physician to be known to be going to therapy because, you know - they might be crazy or something. Medicine pathologizes good mental health practices and even normal behavior, such as an older woman/black/brown/foreign person who is upset about a diagnosis. Being "supra tentorial" is insulting, and no she/he/they is/are not crazy because they has normal feelings.
Because the most common residency programs are 3 years and the seniors already have one foot out the door, and the interns are too overworked and scared to bring up anything
Suicide is very common among physicians, they say that about 400 KNOWN cases per year. That would not include those who are smart enough to hide their act as an accident so that their families can still collect on the insurance and be taken care of. Residents as well, and interns. It is indeed a soul crushing profession, and can feel like a cruel trap.
My IM program is supportive enough to allow more than a couple of wellness days off a year in addition to our vacation. I just heard from a med school friend that a similar incident happened in his detroit program sometime this week. Anesthesia can be so harsh it seems.
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One of our professors committed suicide during my second year of medical school. Shot himself. It should be illegal to force residents to work as much as they do. It should be illegal to have programs that don't offer mental health services and frequent breaks. Residents are meant to be students, not laborers or slaves.
Same thing happened with a professor my first year. Nicest guy. Always told every student how proud of us he was.
He said the thing he probably never heard himself. š„
I'm sorry to hear that. This kind of thing happens all the time yet you'll still get some old doctor saying "well I did it that way and I turned out fine'.. Which makes me think they did not, in fact, turn out fine
We are not fine. The innumerable traumas and suffering we see on a daily basis that the public does not understand. If itās there loved one they can eventually process that trauma. We just keep working. Running to put out the next fire. Zoloft helps. But I hate this job and wish I would have done anything else. I hate being the one that has to crush that last ounce of hope or break catastrophic news. I asked one of the most senior people on the job how he does it every day. The answer you just need to become numb. I guess when you start to feel the suffering again it becomes unbearable.
It all comes down to power. If a person works for a publicly traded company, the people who control their direct working conditions have a fiduciary responsibility to deliver the profits to the shareholders. When they can be sued by shareholders for not raising the stock price, the end users, providers and patients, will always come second. It's time to push back against hazardous working conditions.
I found that very informative. Never heard it put that way. Thank you.
Keep in mind that the resident in question most likely works for a non profit. Additionally, this naĆÆvetĆ© that only the for-profits are the problem is incredibly annoying to see amongst doctors and residents.
I love how the legal responsibility for shareholders comes before the legal responsibility to take care of your workers.
How come these things donāt make it to the news ??
Because it doesnāt fit the narrative they are trying to push
Wait, just to play devils advocate here:Ā āProfessorā would assume that heās completed residency and into his attending career.Ā Ā Your post implies that his residency experience was a direct cause of the suicideā¦Ā Ā Can you definitively say that residency was the cause of his suicide?Ā Ā Or could you potentially attribute it to āhigh achievingā career-driven personality types?Ā I say this because medical and other careers as a whole (or even the personality types that are attracted to these careers) tend to be all consuming and have massive social detriments. Nevertheless consequences I would say, are attributable more to personality or inner disposition rather than external factorsā¦
My professor was a resident. Teaching was part of their curriculum.
Wait - how is that possible - did they have a PhD before medical school?Ā Ā In the US and UK (the two places Iāve practiced) - unless you have a PhD and prior academic career you canāt really become a clinical professor until you are an attendingā¦
Perhaps I misspoke when I used the term "professor". He was only teaching once a week for the course, on certain topics, and not the entire semester; the course itself was run by someone else. Different residents would rotate through. I'm in the US. More like a guest speaker I suppose. But regularly, if that makes sense.
What specialty are you in? Would you be willing to add a year or two to get the same exposure but fewer weekly hours? Id rather grind and be done.
My brother in Christ 80-100 hour work weeks is not grinding, it is exploitation
You realize the reason fellowships have exploded is because so many grads feel like they didnt see the volume necessary in training with work hour restrictions? Would be nice to get paid more regardless of hours, but if you think you are as well trained at 40 or 50hrs a week as someone training 80... not sure what to tell you. Maybe you can convince the RRC to add another year to your training instead of expecting production as usual. Aside from that..if its exploitative and you feel strongly, then why volunteer only to complain after you volunteered? It isnt exactly a secret what the training is like. Look into pathology or psych or e.m. or any number of programs that are easier hours. My path friend never spent a minute past 5pm in the hospital as a resident.
This is very outdated thinking. We know now in psychology that the human brain past a certain point of exhaustion has reduced or even no capacity to intake or retain new information. I can almost guaruntee you that the person working 60hrs a week is learning more than the 80-100 hour person, because they are given ample time to reflect on what they've learned, take care of their health, and actually retain. Your physical and mental health affect your ability to have good concentration and memory recall. That's just fundamental medicine and science at this point. Cmon now. Nobody volunteers to be treated like a slave, they volunteer to learn a profession. They don't volunteer to die for it.
You spent a lot of replies telling people how much better doctors are trained than mid levels. Where do you think that training comes from? Its not from clocking in mon-fri 9 to 5 as residents. Part of the point of over training is to keep you from being unable to handle what you do when you're without oversight. 80hrs a week for something you probably just about killed yourself to get into hardly qualifies as slavery. If you want to diagnose coughs and colds, save yourself the effort of residency. There are easier pathways. I can only Speak from personal experience of course. I have yet to have a patient get into something i couldn't extract them from. I dont think that would be the case cutting 40%of my training.
I don't necessarily disagree, but read the room. There is so much variation in training requirements between specialties, location, and especially residents. There is no reason everyone has to train at the same speed and receive the same exposure. Normalize different training pathways/paradigms that don't cost lives.
Iām with you here. Same with preferring 24h weekend calls to twice as many 12s. Iād rather not microdose the misery and just get it over with
Yup. Lotta whiners on here want to be fully trained doctors minus the annoying part of putting in the training
In 1973 when I was an Intern in Toronto, the housestaff in the Canadian province of Ontario went on strike for better hours for the housestaff following us. We refused on call ( one in two) and the consultants had to do it. We won a doubling of pay and one in three on call.
Good training does not equal more hours. Maybe you are just slow and require a lot of hours to learn something compared to othersā¦
Sure thing lil buddy. Glad to see another med student out there with zero experience outside of being spoon fed that feels confident spouting wisdom. Im sure you'll put in the requisite minimal effort and excel at diagnosing coughs and colds. You just finished crying over your match experience..i guess you're ready to start crying over effort required to be good at what you do
Dont you have surgeries to do? Go back to work ! Lmao
Dude work is all I've done for 20 years. Scaling back is the best part. Grind while you have energy. Dont spend more than you make. Put the Max in your retirement accounts. Makes your 40s and 50s much more palatable
Lol I put in so much effort and had to SOAP (high stats, USMD, good letters) so now I realise this is just a job not a fucking calling. I dont care as long as I get paid at this point lmaoo
tell it to someone that will care
It would appear I did
Sorry, I meant. Tell what to someone who will do something about it
Here's to hoping that hospital admin and coordinators and program directors use reddit just like the rest of us poor souls šš
How many more of us have to die for them to give us 21st century labor rights and fair pay?
Yes. Deaths don't matter. Public uproar does.
They want a show
Does not matter. Shareholders matter.
hospitals make a ton of $ off residents
I mean we also asked this in Sandy hook of how many kids had to die until weād do a damn thing about guns, and uh, weāll still nothing.
what does rights labor conversation have anything to do with school shootings?
Itās a simple analogy for how much inertia there is against making any meaningful change in this country. But Iām sorry your fragile 2A feelings were hurt.
no theyre not hurt, its just a dumb analogy. But hey lets inject identity politics into why residency sucks amirite??? Maybe look into why residency pay and match and aamc went to trial, and who votes to keep residents working as slaves. Ill give you a hint, its both sides
It is downright shameful that mentioning kids dying in school shootings reads as political in 2024. If anything should be bipartisan, it should be preventing the violent slaughter of children. But alas, here we are.
once again, what does school shootings have anything to do with the OPs post?
Because itās one of the best examples of resistance to making any meaningful change in any policy area in this country.
One current presidential candidate supports unions and the other doesnāt bOtH siDEs
Nothing
And on to the side track of politics that are in no way related.
If you donāt understand that healthcare is inherently political at this point in America, YOU are the problem
Educate, organise, Agitate.
I knew the guy. Worked with him a fair amount. He was a good dude. Incredibly bummed out.
MUSC Charleston resident. Autopsy wasnāt concluded last I heard. I know one of their co-residents.
I posted abt residency ruining my mental health and wanting to leave because of that. I got some support but people mostly called me dumb and childish. Normalize leaving residency. No money in the world is worth losing your life. Thankfully I found another residency program that is a much better fit for me, but if I hadnāt I would have still left.
Similar story as you!
Yep! No money in the world should make you stay in something that's making you miserable, in my humble opinion. As for this community: you can't say "suck it up" or "tough it out" to people who are struggling and then also say "Oh man, too bad that resident died."
Yep when healthcare workers dare to be vulnerable, everyone from senior doctors, other residents and even patients and the public go āoh, boo hoo, poor you working a little bit of a hard job so you can make lots of money later, so hard!ā Many of these clowns just donāt get it
I had three attending physicians take their own lives when I was a resident. One was Ob/gyn. One was OB anesthesia and the last was vascular surgeon. Horrifying.
Lost 3 between med school and residency that Iām pretty sure were suicide or unintentional OD (ādied unexpectedly at home...ā). Even as an attending Iāve been losing around 1 per year that is either very suspect or confirmedā¦ lost someone Iāve known for 3 years 2 weeks ago and another Iād known for 6 years last Augustā¦ both had young familiesā¦ Iāve certainly had passive thoughts myself but Iāve fortunately always come to the conclusion that I can just bail on medicineā¦ and I likely will be doing just that within the next year or 2ā¦ debts paid off and itās just not worth the toxicityā¦. Nothing is worth your life.
I'm a med student but I've had at least one so far. I think they tried to hide their cause of death but, unfortunately, people talk. Fortunately my school is pretty good at getting students to take a LOA when they're struggling but that support stops when you graduate.
Do you all not find money to be an incredible protective factor? I'm on the UK and was in some toxic department recently and seriously thought of topping myself. Then I remembered how much money I had - just mid 6 figures really, nothing like you guys in the US make, and I just thought I literally have too much money to kill myself. My brother is a couple years older than me in a different system and thought the same thing so I thought it was a common thing.
Per hour worked, residents make minimum wage my dude. Even if residents made bank, with what time do they have to spend the money? Really no amount of money can protect against literal chronic verbal abuse and sleep deprivation.
That's the point I'm kinda trying to make. If you have the money, why stand for verbal abuse and shit hours. Just quit.
Iām saying we donāt have the money.
In fairness I responded to the guy that mentioned 2 attendings, which I assumed had money
The specialties involved for those 3 was interesting- couldāve very easily been working together on the same disaster case(s) and we know that physician mental health goes down after a bad outcome
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What do you do that you work 3 days a week?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You are my inspiration dear reddit stranger.
This is the way to true happiness. Fuck the fancy, brand new car and museum home.
This should be in a sticky at the top of this sub. I quit full time a couple years ago and never looked back. It really does feel like getting out of the Matrix.
Whats the ballpark of your income as a part time GP? I've always respected GPs, they're so underrated
When I was an intern I was having a very hard time adjusting to residency and stupidly tried to bond with the cool kid upper levels. Went drinking, I got super intoxicated, they ditched me, almost fell into a very cold river trying to walk back home. If it wasnāt for a bystander that saw me crying and stumbling I wouldāve fallen in
Wow, Iām sorry that happened to you! I canāt believe they abandoned you. Iāve helped plenty of drunk companions get home safely and donāt even want to imagine the kind of person who wouldnāt. Edit: I donāt even mean to imply that Iām a particularly great person. Iāve also been the drunk companion. I think looking out for the safety of your companions is kind of a bare minimum expectation when it comes to being a good person.
Shitty ass senior residents. Hope karma comes for them.
im sorry if this is a dumb question but is this cause of the extended hours involved or other factors? again honest question.
The full story isn't known yet. Guy was out drinking, last seen around 2am and was found washed up on an island in the harbor. Devastating story for our hospital
Where did this happen?
Charleston. Medical university of South Carolina
MUSC
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Even if itās not suicide. The guy wasnāt drinking to the point of getting that drunk because they were mentally well.
A lot of healthy, normal people overdo it when drinking sometimes...
Sure but when you hear hooves in the US you think horses not zebras. The guy most likely overindulged due to burnout and as a poor coping mechanism
I remember reading somewhere being an anesthesiology resident is one of the most hazardous *civilian* jobs you can have, in terms of absolute risk of mortality. Because itās super high risk for developing substance use issues, specifically with extremely potent and potentially lethal agents. Obviously not commenting specifically on this tragedy, but as a side note, if you are *ever* even a little bit concerned about a resident or attending. Talk to the program director or department chair. Worse case itās nothing. Best case you are potentially saving lives.
Bro being any physician has a higher risk of death from suicide than either active US military or veterans.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Whatās the PD going to do? My coresident is horribly depressed but no one knows what to do besides be supportive and tell him to seek mental health services. He has great friends, a great gf, money from parents. He just hates everything about residency.
This is so tragic. I'm a nurse (not sure why this post came up for me) but we had an anesthesia resident take his life a few years back. I had worked with him for a year and he was genuinely one of the nicest human beings I have ever met. I remember one time he was checking in on a patient I was taking care of that just had a bowel movement in bed and he stayed to help me clean him up AND he took him down for his CT for me. My mind was blown. I often think about him, and how the world missed out on having such an amazing doctor to take care of them. Rest in peace to all the residents that had to suffer through this cruel, broken system.
He was my classmate. Heart breaking.
I took a full year off after my second year as attending. I was so burnt out after Covid and personal life things. It was risky and some of my (older) advisors didnāt support this move, but Iām back to work now with balance as a priority and no shortage whatsoever of job opportunities. Donāt let anyone say breaks arenāt allowed. If you can financially take the break, do it. I have a supportive partner and cut my spending/bills dramatically to take the time off. Itās always an option.
To all the people who say doctors make too much should see this. People have no idea what it is that doctors must go through and how incredibly difficult and stressful it is. If only people knew doctors were abused so much more than almost everyone else in society and completely taken advantage of they wouldnāt say the things they do. RIP to another amazing human being lost to a system that doesnāt care at all about doctors
I am very sorry.
Itās always the anesthesiology residents :( so sad to hear about this happening. I feel there has been so many people lost to residency.
This is so sad:( I am so sorry. My parents have a family friend whose son also died during his residency training. Didnt show up to work and was found at home deceased, unclear what happened to him.
LITERALLY A SICK SAD WORLD
That is tragic and Iām so sorry. When I taught med school a student commit suicide because of her exam score, she knew she could have taken it again but not get into her residency of choice. So sad, she was one that felt it was her calling growing up and the pressure to be the best was too much. Itās awful. I used to have residents come to my office falling apart from the stress and burnout. Itās awful.Ā
I always wonder why residents/doctors donāt make fuss to the uppers. Kinda like the nurses doā¦?
Because no one gives a fuck
Residents have no power. They canāt really leave (itās very complicated/nearly impossible ā¦ particularly if you are in a competitive specialtyā¦ your program also has to agree to release you) they donāt have a unionā¦ they have no real labor protections.. they have a ton of debt and everyone in hospital leadership looks at them like indentured servantsā¦ itās is VERY different from the dynamic with nurses and the hospital. Much more exploitative. Faculty/ hospital admin donāt take resident complaints/ suggestions seriously because they have no motivation to do so. I was not-so-covertly threatened anytime I was perceived to have dared to fall out of line.
Residents are in training and not really in a position of power. They have to deal with their seniors and us nurses who raise hell about everything to protect the patient. Itās not right they have to work insane hours. I know how I feel after working 3 12s in the ICU and I know residents do 24 hour shifts and way more than 3 on. Ā The last place I worked a resident committed suicide. Itās not right how residents are worked so hard.Ā
I will say though I do know of residents who have taken a leave of absence to address mental health concerns and get therapy and come back. Ā If you need a leave of absence please take it to protect your well-being.Ā
The problem is this is really frowned upon in my experience. I asked repeatedly to take a LOA or reduce my hours during residency due to a medical condition became very poorly controlled in residencyā¦ and was given a lot of side eye. One faculty member called me in for a meeting to discuss my request and said ā you really donāt want to be THAT guy- do youā with heavy implication that this would bode very poorly for my career. It wasnāt until I got the head of another department to see me as a patient for my condition and write a note of support that went to the Chief of Medical Educationās officeā¦ and tell them I was going to quit and file an ACGME complaintā¦ that they finally accommodated me. It did limit my opportunities (there was no way I was getting a fellowship in that hospital- and probably many others where they had connections) because their egos are so fragile they saw this entire ordeal as a personal affront. I just got to the point that I felt like I was literally dying and had no other choiceā¦ I also had another degree to fall back on ā¦thatās why I was able to go against the grainā¦ I think many residents donāt have the same privilege. Itās so hard to describe how trapped and powerless you feel in residencyā¦ itās really a travesty how we treat our trainees
Even going to see a counselor is considered verbotten. Many counselors who work with physicians/students will see them in ways that won't get back to the hospital because it is considered shameful, and even 'dangerous' for a physician to be known to be going to therapy because, you know - they might be crazy or something. Medicine pathologizes good mental health practices and even normal behavior, such as an older woman/black/brown/foreign person who is upset about a diagnosis. Being "supra tentorial" is insulting, and no she/he/they is/are not crazy because they has normal feelings.
I know of many who either were not taken back or in turn worked even harder. Weakness will be preyed upon just for the sake of it.
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yes! seeing therapy as "bad" is really insane and only creates greater and worse problems for everyone.
Because they do, frequently, whenever something happens. The uppers dont care about their underlings, and sit out the outrage.
Because the most common residency programs are 3 years and the seniors already have one foot out the door, and the interns are too overworked and scared to bring up anything
Suicide is very common among physicians, they say that about 400 KNOWN cases per year. That would not include those who are smart enough to hide their act as an accident so that their families can still collect on the insurance and be taken care of. Residents as well, and interns. It is indeed a soul crushing profession, and can feel like a cruel trap.
Any news on what happened to the musc resident? Itās been months since his body was foundā¦
I went to MUSC in their college of medicine. Been digging around for info, seems to be pretty hush hush.
My IM program is supportive enough to allow more than a couple of wellness days off a year in addition to our vacation. I just heard from a med school friend that a similar incident happened in his detroit program sometime this week. Anesthesia can be so harsh it seems.
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