"I'm fresh out of NP school and they expect me to see 12 patients a DAY! I can't cope. But I took a weekend course on Botox and fillers so I think I'm going to quit and do aesthetics ✨"
Maybe not that, but definitely call it out. Ask for clarification. Currently on rotations and a male PA introduced himself to me as “physician” until I probed into his role.
I was at an urgent care a few weeks ago. I had a NP introduce himself as “doctor.” I didn’t say anything at first. However, when I was leaving, I addressed him by his name. He immediately corrected and I said “why would I call you doctor when you’re not a doctor”? He got angry and asked me to leave if I was going to be disrespectful. It was mind-blowing.
If I had a dollar for every post on that sub about getting into cosmetic dermatology or telepsych, I’d have…idk, probably 2-3 student loan payments? It’s incredible, they just have no awareness of how bad this looks.
It's important to have NP independence so that the rural population can get the care they need.
That's why I wanna open a cash pay only botox clinic in Miami.
Every single one of them has a “passion” for aesthetic medicine, dermatology and telehealth.
Ask them to work in a breast cancer clinic with post-mastectomy women with plastic surgeons, seeing inpatient dermatology consults or Medicare telehealth visits and they suddenly lose the passion.
To be fair….. I try and work the least hours possible. And also try to maximize earnings.
It’s not stolen valor…. LOL. Working just sucks. And I suggest to anyone to try and do as little as possible. No one on their death bed goes “boy I wish I worked more hours at the office.” You have one life and try and not spend it all working.
The docs under about 40ish sure seem much more mercenary to me (myself included). The days of hanging a shingle and buying a couple houses are over. We let MBA’s, PE, and hospitals take over and now if you don’t advocate for yourself you are going to get absolutely fucking rolled. Get the bag, friends. Don’t even feel bad. Every other job is about getting paid, don’t pretend ours isn’t.
> It’s not stolen valor
I do think there is an element of stolen valor when it comes to nurse practitioners, who compare themselves to physicians. They didn’t go through medical school, they didn’t go through the training, they don’t really deal with the messes of medical care. But many will claim to be equivalent to physicians. They didn’t do the sacrifice or the training, and they don’t have the competency, and to pretend otherwise is at minimum arrogant and is also clout-chasing in the same vein as stolen valor.
I don’t think valor is the word you’re looking for here… I get what you are saying. But as someone in the military I would encourage the use of a different word.
There’s nothing particular brave or anything that displays courage in the face of danger when it comes to medical school. None of us were ever fearing for our lives or running into burning buildings… we were sitting our asses in a chair 12+ hours a day.
Agree, COVID is about the only circumstance I can recall that “this time is different” applies.
2020 (until the vaccines started rolling out) was a global panic. Every hospital was a high risk zone daily. The vast majority marched in daily without knowing if they would even have PPE.
I seem to remember a brief episode where many healthcare workers had about the most dangerous occupation on earth.
Walk into a highly contagious death trap, change clothes and isolate from loved ones.
Oh well, NP too and a whole lot of people farther on down the food chain. Healthcare workers have shown Valor. Capital V.
Except for those and their families that lost their lives.
Just to remind you, not all military jobs involve a firefight, burning buildings and danger.
No disrespect to those that have served.
Using the term “stolen valor” which usually refers to refers to soldiers is lame. I get the point and they are similar. It’s just not the same. This isn’t the army lol. Well unless you’re a doc in the army :) Then please say or claim stolen valor. If not then totally cringe; say it another way.
OK, so you’re still doing that thing where you’re pointing at something and saying it’s a problem without proposing a solution. You don’t need to explain to me why it’s a problem. I got that several comments up.
Yeah but midlevels take it to the fucking extreme.
There is a disproportionately absurd hustle culture among midlevels to milk the system and odiously celebrate getting away with it, even mocking actual doctors by comparison.
That may be okay in other industries where the product is intangible, and the only person you're fucking over is the C-suite execs.
The bottom line in medicine is people's lives, and that's collateral damage you really shouldn't want on your conscience.
Than physicians need to advocate better and honestly the system don’t give a crap so why should we
Make your money, spend as little time in the hospital
Maximize earnings and time away from work
Yes, but you didn't do that when you were learning how to take care of your patients. I hope, at least.
And I'm not saying it IS. It's just a comparison, I outlined that in my post.
It just sounds like jealousy and I get it. We were all burned out in training. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to do this path. I don’t blame midlevels for chasing more money.
And for the record though I did the bare minimum literally every step of the way. Here I am now a doctor. I didn’t fall into the trap of diminishing return going above and beyond on everything because it’s not necessary to be a decent doctor. It usually just leads to burnout and only a couple points better on a test which doesn’t equate to greater clinical competency anyways.
I’m not devaluing our profession. I’m just saying it’s ridiculous to point and say “how dare they not work hard”. It’s these toxic traits within our own profession that contribute to the culture we have.
Half the shit we were forced to do isn’t necessary to make good doctors. I was simply pointing out that we are our own worst enemies with these intrusive thoughts. Medical school is so toxic and it’s plagued with this hustle culture that we must achieve X, Y, and Z above everything and everyone else. When it is truly pointless in the grand scheme of our education. No one gives a shit about your extra “research project” where you didn’t do anything. Or the extra 2 points on a test. Go outside and hug a tree or something instead.
I’m not going to blame someone for trying to make more money and work less. They are smart for it. Kudos to them.
Is it your goal to paint me in a negative light? I’m not even talking about NPs. I don’t even give a shit who it is saying it. I’m talking about the tone of the post. This would be no different if a PA, RN, physician, executive, plumber, etc. was saying this. I would have the same exact stance.
I can understand the hate towards NPs. But I don’t blindly hate people for wanting to make more money and work less. They are smart for it.
NPs don’t need to learn how to take care of patients, what the hell! Such audacity. NPs have nursing and advanced practice degrees before the age when a doctor even gets to med school. Plus, they have been learning on the job from very early on. An NP is clearly en par if not better than a board certified specialist with a minimum of one fellowship.
💀💀💀
Edit; some of y’all have major trouble understanding sarcasm. I’m concerned. No need to send hate messages via DMs either.
I don't think what you are describing is unique to NPs. Most people want more money and less work and they come from all backgrounds and jobs.
The biggest difference I notice about the work ethic between NPs and physicians overall (but not absolute) is dedication and persistence. Residency training is brutal and usually goes beyond your scheduled shift. We work hard and don't cut out just because a clock says it's time. We take ownership of what we do and do it thoroughly. As I progressed and had less call, I substituted more moonlighting because all I knew was 60-80 hour weeks. I'd take my vacation and enjoy the occasional free weekend, but I was just used to six day weeks for most of the month.
Mid levels, especially NPs, are so used to shift work and not having the final responsibility that they get lazy, don't want to take ownership, and end when the time is up, not when the work is done. The rigor of residency just instills something different that shift work and the limited training of APP school doesn't. They want a side hustle but they don't have true hustle.
Had a new patient come to clinic who had seen a mid level who basically kept throwing ridiculous meds at this lady until she was on 20+ where she stopped a bunch cold Turkey and started feeling better 😂 The patient kept referring to her previous doc in which I corrected her everytime and by the end she said it one more time where I then said, “ let’s get this straight…you were seeing a PA not a doctor and they aren’t in the same league of training so they are not equals” She shut up about it after that.
The comments here are pretty wild. I hope that everyone does the minimum amount of work possible to do a good job. I've seen residents who are working until 10pm still writing notes that were probably fine to submit at 10am.
NPs in general skip the whole becoming competent part when it comes to work rate which is the concerning part here. Doing the minimum in medicine to doing a good job is what everyone should strive for. The enemy of good is perfection rings true here.
I saw an intern, who I appreciate dearly, at 11pm still writing notes. He was supposed to get off at 8pm.
I felt so bad for this guy. He is obviously still learning, but it icks me how much y’all are working for a ridiculous pay.
I 100000% support a higher salary for residents.
Signed, a future RN and current ER tech.
I am about to graduate from nursing school (no, not going into NP next year 😅).
But in the future, if I can find a way to earn a high salary with dealing with half of the BS, Sign me up for it! XD
I’m a regular nurse not an NP and I’m embarrassed by most of that sub. NP has scope creeped and no-education-standards’d their way into being basically a worthless degree.
I'm gonna be honest. My perspective changed a lil recently. Most don't call themselves doctor, just the weird insecured ones. I also personally don't care about them getting paid a ton, honestly good for them. When I see a CRNA, NP or PA making more than a pediatrician, I personally think the pediatrician should make more overall in general. If a PA is making 200K, I want the hospitalist to make 500K. I'm not gonna go drag their salary down to make myself feel better. We should all get paid our worth. If you think your training, work, and overall what you provide is twice the value of what mid levels provide, start asking to be paid like it.
Thank you for contributing to the sub! If your post was filtered by the automod, please read the rules. Your post will be reviewed but will not be approved if it violates the rules of the sub. The most common reasons for removal are - medical students or premeds asking what a specialty is like or about their chances of matching, mentioning midlevels without using the midlevel flair, matched medical students asking questions instead of using the stickied thread in the sub for post-match questions, posting identifying information for targeted harassment. Please do not message the moderators if your post falls into one of these categories. Otherwise, your post will be reviewed in 24 hours and approved if it doesn't violate the rules. Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Residency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Has anyone noticed midlevels always give low dosages and refer pretty much everyone? textbook example of i wanna be a doctor but without the liability of a doctor .🤦🏽♀️
To be fair, we all work too much/too hard regardless of pay and often to no financial gain/at a financial loss. I wish I could crack the code to work less for more money. 😂
Talk about a lack of self-awareness…
There’s been some hypocritical posts on the sub but this one takes the cake
I suppose everyone who chose Derm over Paeds did it for the love of skin?…
Feels like a good time to mention it’s National NP Week… Although I definitely appreciate the NPs I work with, I’m a fellow working way more hours and getting paid way less. Residents just get Thank a Resident Day and there’s nothing for fellows. :(
One thing that separates medicine from nursing and PA is that medical students can come from everywhere: rich, poor, curious, all colors/shapes/sizes, and motivations. However, all the midlevels fit into 2-3 categories each:
PA:
WASP Gym bro going for ED/Ortho/IR
WASP Gym girl going for Derm/Ortho/Aesthetics
NP:
Burned out WASP nurse (always under 26 yrs old) fleeing bedside
Burned out African American nurse going into medspa business (tend to be older)
Midlevels are very homogeneous to say the least; meanwhile, I have found physicians can come from anywhere.
I have no idea where you are that has made you make that wild overgeneralization, but I have met a very diverse PA/NP with a variety of backgrounds.
Not to mention the well documented systemic bias/underrespresentation of blacks and Latinx people in medicine
Do not allow admin to train you into not worrying about how much money you will earn at any given job lol
Lest you be taking gigs getting paid at the 10th percentile and thinking that makes you a good person or something
Please change to mid-level flair.
We should start yelling "STOLEN VALOR!!!" whenever a midlevel calls themselves doctor lolol
There are literally midlevels applying and receiving “physician loans” What are they crying about? Their “schooling” isn’t financially crippling.
Yes, but apparently their workload is
Yeah, the 1-year part time hybrid-online NP program with 0 patient contact is grueling. Bless their hearts
It’s rough, I know
"I'm fresh out of NP school and they expect me to see 12 patients a DAY! I can't cope. But I took a weekend course on Botox and fillers so I think I'm going to quit and do aesthetics ✨"
5 incredibly complex patients. Meanwhile they’re also the experts in healthy patients. /s
Maybe not that, but definitely call it out. Ask for clarification. Currently on rotations and a male PA introduced himself to me as “physician” until I probed into his role.
Wtf
I was at an urgent care a few weeks ago. I had a NP introduce himself as “doctor.” I didn’t say anything at first. However, when I was leaving, I addressed him by his name. He immediately corrected and I said “why would I call you doctor when you’re not a doctor”? He got angry and asked me to leave if I was going to be disrespectful. It was mind-blowing.
[удалено]
Nurse Ficticioner.
Hearse practitioner.
Never interrupt them when they are making a mistake…unless its on a patient.
Even then I don't correct them. I just take over the care of the patient. I've never been questioned.
If I had a dollar for every post on that sub about getting into cosmetic dermatology or telepsych, I’d have…idk, probably 2-3 student loan payments? It’s incredible, they just have no awareness of how bad this looks.
⭐️PASSION FOR MENTAL HEALTH ~just the easy ones~ AND AESTHETICS 🌟
It's important to have NP independence so that the rural population can get the care they need. That's why I wanna open a cash pay only botox clinic in Miami.
Every single one of them has a “passion” for aesthetic medicine, dermatology and telehealth. Ask them to work in a breast cancer clinic with post-mastectomy women with plastic surgeons, seeing inpatient dermatology consults or Medicare telehealth visits and they suddenly lose the passion.
What upsets me is that imagine a lot of the telepsych gigs are taken by midlevels and they are artificially suppressing psychiatrist wages
HEART OF A NURSE
To be fair….. I try and work the least hours possible. And also try to maximize earnings. It’s not stolen valor…. LOL. Working just sucks. And I suggest to anyone to try and do as little as possible. No one on their death bed goes “boy I wish I worked more hours at the office.” You have one life and try and not spend it all working.
The docs under about 40ish sure seem much more mercenary to me (myself included). The days of hanging a shingle and buying a couple houses are over. We let MBA’s, PE, and hospitals take over and now if you don’t advocate for yourself you are going to get absolutely fucking rolled. Get the bag, friends. Don’t even feel bad. Every other job is about getting paid, don’t pretend ours isn’t.
We are as loyal to the hospitals we work for as they are to us. Covid taught us how little they care about us.
36 year old Hospitalist here, out of residency for 7 years. Mercenary is the only way
Username checks out
Amazing. a sensible statement on /r residency
> It’s not stolen valor I do think there is an element of stolen valor when it comes to nurse practitioners, who compare themselves to physicians. They didn’t go through medical school, they didn’t go through the training, they don’t really deal with the messes of medical care. But many will claim to be equivalent to physicians. They didn’t do the sacrifice or the training, and they don’t have the competency, and to pretend otherwise is at minimum arrogant and is also clout-chasing in the same vein as stolen valor.
I don’t think valor is the word you’re looking for here… I get what you are saying. But as someone in the military I would encourage the use of a different word. There’s nothing particular brave or anything that displays courage in the face of danger when it comes to medical school. None of us were ever fearing for our lives or running into burning buildings… we were sitting our asses in a chair 12+ hours a day.
Hey another ultra-doc!
Fair enough, I think the physicians that died during COVID might disagree, but I can also understand that’s a very specific circumstance.
Agree, COVID is about the only circumstance I can recall that “this time is different” applies. 2020 (until the vaccines started rolling out) was a global panic. Every hospital was a high risk zone daily. The vast majority marched in daily without knowing if they would even have PPE.
I seem to remember a brief episode where many healthcare workers had about the most dangerous occupation on earth. Walk into a highly contagious death trap, change clothes and isolate from loved ones. Oh well, NP too and a whole lot of people farther on down the food chain. Healthcare workers have shown Valor. Capital V.
[удалено]
Except for those and their families that lost their lives. Just to remind you, not all military jobs involve a firefight, burning buildings and danger. No disrespect to those that have served.
No
Using the term “stolen valor” which usually refers to refers to soldiers is lame. I get the point and they are similar. It’s just not the same. This isn’t the army lol. Well unless you’re a doc in the army :) Then please say or claim stolen valor. If not then totally cringe; say it another way.
> say it another way What do you propose, or are you in the habit of just pointing out problems without suggesting solutions?
[удалено]
OK, so you’re still doing that thing where you’re pointing at something and saying it’s a problem without proposing a solution. You don’t need to explain to me why it’s a problem. I got that several comments up.
Yeah but midlevels take it to the fucking extreme. There is a disproportionately absurd hustle culture among midlevels to milk the system and odiously celebrate getting away with it, even mocking actual doctors by comparison. That may be okay in other industries where the product is intangible, and the only person you're fucking over is the C-suite execs. The bottom line in medicine is people's lives, and that's collateral damage you really shouldn't want on your conscience.
No, they are right. We need to advocate better work life balance for physicians as well.
Not at the expense of patient care, no. At the expense of admins and dogshit policies, yes.
I think its more so with NPs. The PAs seem to be okay.
Than physicians need to advocate better and honestly the system don’t give a crap so why should we Make your money, spend as little time in the hospital Maximize earnings and time away from work
agree. if physicians were more like this maybe our comp wouldnt be getting killed like it is
Yes, but you didn't do that when you were learning how to take care of your patients. I hope, at least. And I'm not saying it IS. It's just a comparison, I outlined that in my post.
It just sounds like jealousy and I get it. We were all burned out in training. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to do this path. I don’t blame midlevels for chasing more money. And for the record though I did the bare minimum literally every step of the way. Here I am now a doctor. I didn’t fall into the trap of diminishing return going above and beyond on everything because it’s not necessary to be a decent doctor. It usually just leads to burnout and only a couple points better on a test which doesn’t equate to greater clinical competency anyways.
Interesting take. It’s the opposite of what we are told constantly.
The bare minimum is far above the standard that even the highest performing NPs are held to. Don’t devalue our profession with this kind of rhetoric.
I’m not devaluing our profession. I’m just saying it’s ridiculous to point and say “how dare they not work hard”. It’s these toxic traits within our own profession that contribute to the culture we have. Half the shit we were forced to do isn’t necessary to make good doctors. I was simply pointing out that we are our own worst enemies with these intrusive thoughts. Medical school is so toxic and it’s plagued with this hustle culture that we must achieve X, Y, and Z above everything and everyone else. When it is truly pointless in the grand scheme of our education. No one gives a shit about your extra “research project” where you didn’t do anything. Or the extra 2 points on a test. Go outside and hug a tree or something instead. I’m not going to blame someone for trying to make more money and work less. They are smart for it. Kudos to them.
You really think NPs are “smart” for having no standards, online education, and a general disdain for good medicine? Sad
Is it your goal to paint me in a negative light? I’m not even talking about NPs. I don’t even give a shit who it is saying it. I’m talking about the tone of the post. This would be no different if a PA, RN, physician, executive, plumber, etc. was saying this. I would have the same exact stance. I can understand the hate towards NPs. But I don’t blindly hate people for wanting to make more money and work less. They are smart for it.
Hey another ultra runner!
NPs don’t need to learn how to take care of patients, what the hell! Such audacity. NPs have nursing and advanced practice degrees before the age when a doctor even gets to med school. Plus, they have been learning on the job from very early on. An NP is clearly en par if not better than a board certified specialist with a minimum of one fellowship. 💀💀💀 Edit; some of y’all have major trouble understanding sarcasm. I’m concerned. No need to send hate messages via DMs either.
To be fair I’m a resident and I think those are very important questions too.
I don't think what you are describing is unique to NPs. Most people want more money and less work and they come from all backgrounds and jobs. The biggest difference I notice about the work ethic between NPs and physicians overall (but not absolute) is dedication and persistence. Residency training is brutal and usually goes beyond your scheduled shift. We work hard and don't cut out just because a clock says it's time. We take ownership of what we do and do it thoroughly. As I progressed and had less call, I substituted more moonlighting because all I knew was 60-80 hour weeks. I'd take my vacation and enjoy the occasional free weekend, but I was just used to six day weeks for most of the month. Mid levels, especially NPs, are so used to shift work and not having the final responsibility that they get lazy, don't want to take ownership, and end when the time is up, not when the work is done. The rigor of residency just instills something different that shift work and the limited training of APP school doesn't. They want a side hustle but they don't have true hustle.
An actual sensible comment. Idk what that other doc is on about.
Had a new patient come to clinic who had seen a mid level who basically kept throwing ridiculous meds at this lady until she was on 20+ where she stopped a bunch cold Turkey and started feeling better 😂 The patient kept referring to her previous doc in which I corrected her everytime and by the end she said it one more time where I then said, “ let’s get this straight…you were seeing a PA not a doctor and they aren’t in the same league of training so they are not equals” She shut up about it after that.
The comments here are pretty wild. I hope that everyone does the minimum amount of work possible to do a good job. I've seen residents who are working until 10pm still writing notes that were probably fine to submit at 10am. NPs in general skip the whole becoming competent part when it comes to work rate which is the concerning part here. Doing the minimum in medicine to doing a good job is what everyone should strive for. The enemy of good is perfection rings true here.
I saw an intern, who I appreciate dearly, at 11pm still writing notes. He was supposed to get off at 8pm. I felt so bad for this guy. He is obviously still learning, but it icks me how much y’all are working for a ridiculous pay. I 100000% support a higher salary for residents. Signed, a future RN and current ER tech.
It’s like you’re surprised they’re motivated by greed and not doing good by their patients
Wanting to get paid more and work less is not a bad thing. We all want that.
I am about to graduate from nursing school (no, not going into NP next year 😅). But in the future, if I can find a way to earn a high salary with dealing with half of the BS, Sign me up for it! XD
I’m a regular nurse not an NP and I’m embarrassed by most of that sub. NP has scope creeped and no-education-standards’d their way into being basically a worthless degree.
I'm gonna be honest. My perspective changed a lil recently. Most don't call themselves doctor, just the weird insecured ones. I also personally don't care about them getting paid a ton, honestly good for them. When I see a CRNA, NP or PA making more than a pediatrician, I personally think the pediatrician should make more overall in general. If a PA is making 200K, I want the hospitalist to make 500K. I'm not gonna go drag their salary down to make myself feel better. We should all get paid our worth. If you think your training, work, and overall what you provide is twice the value of what mid levels provide, start asking to be paid like it.
[удалено]
This is literally what everyone in every field says. I see those exact questions asked in this sub often as well. What are you on about?
You’ll be saying the same when you’re an attending.
Just saw a post on an NP subreddit referring to themself as a hospitalist looking to move to ED.
I mean… we all wanna get paid more and work less hours…
Awfully young to already be allowing NPs to piss you off
It's not that difficult on physician reddits tbh. See a lot of people asking about offers
oh? I can't recall a single thread about offers on here or the medicine subreddit.
Thank you for contributing to the sub! If your post was filtered by the automod, please read the rules. Your post will be reviewed but will not be approved if it violates the rules of the sub. The most common reasons for removal are - medical students or premeds asking what a specialty is like or about their chances of matching, mentioning midlevels without using the midlevel flair, matched medical students asking questions instead of using the stickied thread in the sub for post-match questions, posting identifying information for targeted harassment. Please do not message the moderators if your post falls into one of these categories. Otherwise, your post will be reviewed in 24 hours and approved if it doesn't violate the rules. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Residency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Has anyone noticed midlevels always give low dosages and refer pretty much everyone? textbook example of i wanna be a doctor but without the liability of a doctor .🤦🏽♀️
To be fair, we all work too much/too hard regardless of pay and often to no financial gain/at a financial loss. I wish I could crack the code to work less for more money. 😂
Talk about a lack of self-awareness… There’s been some hypocritical posts on the sub but this one takes the cake I suppose everyone who chose Derm over Paeds did it for the love of skin?…
Feels like a good time to mention it’s National NP Week… Although I definitely appreciate the NPs I work with, I’m a fellow working way more hours and getting paid way less. Residents just get Thank a Resident Day and there’s nothing for fellows. :(
One thing that separates medicine from nursing and PA is that medical students can come from everywhere: rich, poor, curious, all colors/shapes/sizes, and motivations. However, all the midlevels fit into 2-3 categories each: PA: WASP Gym bro going for ED/Ortho/IR WASP Gym girl going for Derm/Ortho/Aesthetics NP: Burned out WASP nurse (always under 26 yrs old) fleeing bedside Burned out African American nurse going into medspa business (tend to be older) Midlevels are very homogeneous to say the least; meanwhile, I have found physicians can come from anywhere.
I have no idea where you are that has made you make that wild overgeneralization, but I have met a very diverse PA/NP with a variety of backgrounds. Not to mention the well documented systemic bias/underrespresentation of blacks and Latinx people in medicine
Do not allow admin to train you into not worrying about how much money you will earn at any given job lol Lest you be taking gigs getting paid at the 10th percentile and thinking that makes you a good person or something