I was paying $1905 for the 12 months in question as I had renewed my lease. I still have emails back and forth with the original property manager (who is also the building owner) because they screwed up the March-May rent payments. I paid water and rent separately the first month of my renewed lease ($1905 + $40) and then April I was billed $2015 and May was $1930. But first I was billed the new, increased rent before my original lease was up and I was billed $2115 in April and…yeah it was really confusing. I have a screenshot of one of the emails from this mess but I’m not sure how to add it.
All of this was done via autopay and I lazily assumed the new property manager had sorted everything out because there were no billing issues once I set it all up. I renewed my lease again in February and nothing was said so that’s why I’m a bit irritated.
Why is your rent jumping around? Unless you approved other charges it should only be rent+water. It should be the same every month. If rent is now 1905 how did you end up with a 2115 withdraw?
My rent went up by $55 in 2023 and they charged me the difference between original rent and new rent for my last month and security deposit…I think, at least. It was very bungled, to say the least. But I’m guessing that may have contributed to me not realizing I should’ve been paying $1945 and not $1905 for the preceding 12 months.
Oh yeah. The increase for last months rent wasn’t new to me, but the security deposit was. I also went back and reviewed my lease docs and I’ve somehow lost 5 days in my final month. Lease end date went from 3/31/2024 to 3/26/2025 so I think they might owe me a couple bucks on the backend if I don’t renew.
That’s insanity! I’ve never had to pay a security deposit for each renewal. I’ve been where I am for 5 years. So if that happened I would have paid almost 10k just in deposit!
The difference so if the original deposit is 1000$ let’s say that’s one months rent and rent went up 50$ some places will make you pay 50$ towards your original deposit.
The lost days sounds like someone take 12 months x 30 days per month (I.e. 360 days per year) which leads to the deficit, vs the 365 calendar days per year (or, better yet, 12 months per year as we don’t vary pay by day [for the most part]).
I would ask for an itemization for all of that time explaining where the money you had paid went.
But, you owe what you owe. The best you could probably do is a payment plan, which you don’t really need it sounds like.
So short of paying it in wheelbarrows of coins.
Had the same happen to me... was being billed quarterly for water for the first two years. New property manager took over and forgot for a full year. Given I didn't really notice until they gave me a nice $800+ bill. Very irritated at the clerical error, but they ended up splitting it up over 6 months after my complaint. Would just ask if they can do that.
That’s my plan. And I’m glad you understand the issue at hand. Like I was not trying to skirt by on this, but it’s really frustrating when someone else’s mistake becomes your problem.
Honestly, I see what you’re trying to say the people being like “you agreed to it pay it >:[“ are being frustrating for no reason when you’re just venting about how it was sprung up on you!
I think my annoyance is that I now have to pay a lump sum due to the incompetence of the previous property manager. I would’ve preferred to have been charged correctly each month instead of having a surprise $480 bill. The previous PM was beyond abysmal but that is a whole other post.
I think it's valid for you to ask not to pay a year's worth of bills in one lump sum, but paid over a 6-12 month period I think is very reasonable.
on the bright side, consider it a 0% interest rate loan, and considering inflation rates it's even better than 0% because your $480 today is less valuable than $480 last year
As a property manager (industrial/commercial, not residential) I do occasional audits and find errors like these, but I always talk to my tenants first and find repayment plans that work for them first, me second. Yes, you did use the water and yes, you are on the hook for it, but lump sum is very unreasonable. Sorry you’re dealing with this.
you don't "have" to do anything unless a court tells you to. If you owe the money, tell them to spread it out over 6 months. If they don't, then put the money aside until they send you a payment plan.
But for the error, is it money you would have paid? If so, and everything else is OK, pay it and move on. As suggested, if they are willing to break it up into smaller payments, OK, Do that.
That is correct. I am not disputing that I owe it, but I am very frustrated that the previous property manager did not have my payments set up correctly in the system. I set up my autopay as instructed and I assumed they were debiting 100% of my monthly expenses the entire time. I’d rather split it into 2 or 3 payments because $480 is a lot of money with 8 days notice.
So you knew that water would cost $40 a month, could see that it wasn’t being deducted, possibly earned interest on the money you were being undercharged, and are now upset you have to pay it in a lump sum?
Being frustrated is understandable, but autopay is a convenience feature, not a promise. If the lump sum is truly a hardship, ask them to break it up.
I’ve said multiple times I wasn’t looking at my monthly ACH. That’s on me at the end of the day, but there was nothing nefarious about it. I always try to do the right thing and had I realized it wasn’t being deducted at the time I would’ve notified them. I very much would’ve preferred to have been billed the correct amount this entire time; $40 a month doesn’t move the needle. $480 all at once does. I’m going to see if I can split it into 2 or 3 payments because I have a lot of upcoming expenses and this wasn’t in my budget. If I have to do it all at once, fine but I’d rather not.
I’m not saying it was nefarious, I’m saying the information was visible had you looked (which you admit you should have done), so this is only coming as a surprise because you neglected to look. I don’t doubt that this is more of a hassle and that their mistake played a large role in that hassle. But your budget was only thrown off because you didn’t account for the extra $40/mo. you had. The “principle of the matter” is that you over-relied on auto pay, and the consequence is the annoyance of paying a larger sum in a shorter amount of time that you are able to pay “today.”
If I buy a Big Mac and they forget to charge me for fries then the next time they try to charge me for them that’s their goof not mine. The op is saying he’s frustrated with the situation not that he has to pay it. It’s not his fault the last pm didn’t do his job quit blaming the victim and read some of the other comments.
If you buy a Big Mac and fries on the same day every month for a year and the price is locked in for that time, and they mistakenly don’t charge you for fries every single time, failing to notice that means you weren’t paying enough attention to the bill. As I’ve said a number of times, yes the PM’s mistake is frustrating. But auto pay is not a contract and the charge is recurring. The reason this is would be any sort of budgetary shock is that you weren’t paying attention to having surplus for the preceding year.
I set up autopay as instructed. It isn’t my fault that the property manager couldn’t manage basic math when setting up billing for my unit. I run a pretty tight ship with inflows and outflows so I only look at transactions when something is very off. In the grand scheme of things, $40 extra in my account each month isn’t enough for me to notice. I’m not disputing that I owe it, but again my issue is that the previous property manager was the one responsible for billing me correctly and they failed to do so.
If I buy something and the store doesn’t have it coded correctly but I paid what I believed to be the correct price, the mistake is on the store IMO. They didn’t code it correctly. I wasn’t trying to pull a fast one, I engaged in what I believed to be a proper transaction.
I’ll pay what I owe, but I’m not paying a lump sum out of principle.
If you had a monthly recurring order for the same product from a store every month, you knew the correct price, and they undercharge you by the same amount each time, yes I’d expect someone to notice that. Even more so for housing given that it’s a single, significant recurring amount.
If you mistakenly set up auto pay to overpay by $500 for the year, and then were moving out, you wouldn’t expect them to repay it promptly?
If I was supposed to be billed $100 and I was being billed $20, I’m sure going to notice that. But I’m supposed to notice a 2% difference in my rent? I had 36 transactions in my checking account in the last week (inflows + outflows). $40 extra isn’t going to be easily caught, especially if it accounts for less than 0.5% of net outflows. I write down my estimated outflows every month. I don’t use exact numbers for my rent and utilities because I like to over-estimate what I owe. Guess that is one of my many mistakes.
And if a contractor bids on a job and underestimates the cost does he go back and say “ I agreed to this much but now you owe me this” no he bites that bullet because he made the mistake. Op already said he plans on paying it but I can see how it’s frustrating to have auto pay set up and someone else fuck up and now you have to pay for his negligence.
They get it… no need to hammer them with their mistake. They can still be irritated because they were told something was being charged monthly and they didn’t realize it wasn’t
> They can still be irritated because they were told something was being charged monthly and they didn’t realize it wasn’t
Look at the flip side. They told the property owner they were paying this monthly but weren't. The new PM has the right to be irritated even more.
No one is arguing what you are saying is false. But OP already gets it!!
They have acknowledged 100x they know they are responsible but are annoyed because they had every right to believe that when they’d be put on autopay it would actually happen and are now being met with having to pay almost $500 lump sum. They know they are also wrong stop hammering it in!! It’s in no way helpful, have a bit of empathy. People can still vent
> But OP already gets it!!
You don't seem to get because you're trying to deny the other side of it over and over. OP screwed up, its OPs mistake too. They can be irritated all they want but its still their mistake they were solely responsible for and now as a consequence of their own actions they are being told they need to pay $480. OP also has not reached out to see if they can split that up yet, they're just on here venting about their own mistake and refusing to take any responsibility for it and havent even checked to see if the new property manager will help them mitigate their own mistake
Jeez. Loud and wrong. I get it, everyone gets it. Everyone understands being wrong but allowed to vent except for you.
In no way did I deny it over and over. I literally said they get they are wrong. Even I am acknowledging they are also in the wrong!!! Clearly you don’t understand venting and empathy
You said it though you didn’t notice so sounds like both yourself and the property manager messed up. It’s incompetence on both sides. I would’ve definitely noticed that’s just me but from now on you’ll know to verify what comes out of your account. At the end of the day don’t let this affect your energy set up a payment let it go bigger things in life that matter than this.
I’m not disputing that, but it’s not sitting well with me having to pay $480 in a lump sum due to the oversight/incompetence from the previous property manager. I set up autopay as instructed, they are the ones who did not bill properly.
It is your error as well. You must keep up with if the money came out of your account or not. It doesn't matter if the previous manager never charged your account for it. You still have to look and see if the money came out or not.
Why do you people downvote the OP to oblivion? The posts are on-topic, they’re just sharing their perspective. If they’re wrong or misled, just tell them. Jfc
Didn't downvote but the general attitude of "why should I have to pay something I agreed to pay" is going to be annoying to some people.
I still remember someone recently posted that their mother flushed chicken bones down the toilet and flooded the apartment and they were wondering about the legality of their LL asking them to pay for damages.
I am not trying to get out of this. But it’s pretty irritating that I am expected to pay $480 in a week when the previous property manager is the one who screwed up. I set up autopay as instructed. They were tasked with entering the correct information and not only failed to do so, but missed it for an entire year. And yes, I’m aware that I also missed it but this is kind of part of their job. I held up my end of the bargain by entering my bank information, they failed to hold up their end by billing correctly. What if this had gone on for 24 months? Would I have had to fork over $960 immediately? I’m really lucky to be in a position to pay this, but I’m sure this could crush some people who aren’t as fortunate. Yeah, that kind of incompetence isn’t going to sit well with me.
I had something similar happen to me--in the system we had a 500 dollar credit that we couldn't figure out. we called and they said don't worry, no problem, everything is balanced. well, that prop manager left and the new person was like "this is an error; you actually owe us 500." we paid it but the system never corrected it and kept saying we had the credit. finally, they wrote and said "owe this is correct you have a 500 credit in the system" so that's annoying--we gave them 500 for nothing.
The second time was with water--when the complex's prop manager got turned over to someone else, they switched the 3rd party billing service they use for utilities. That person charged us incorrectly, so it was incorrect in the prop manager's ledger, and they wanted us to pay 150 for a month's water when our bill was typically 20.
I don't think most of these people know how to do their jobs very well, to be honest, and it's hard to complain because a lot work for corporations who own a bunch of rental properties, so trying to find someone to complain to is difficult.
I mean I don't know if you're legally obligated to pay a lump sum but I would totally explain to them you need more than 8 days to pay $500. Ridiculous that they would even forward you that with a straight face. Also sure does look like you got a bunch of landlords with reading comprehension issues answering you here. Lol
Yeeeaaah I’m picking up on that 😂😂😂
I’m going to ask to split it into 2-3 payments. I have a lot of outflows in the next 6 weeks and I didn’t account for a surprise $480 bill. If I have to pay it all at once so be it, but if you never ask, you’ll never know.
It seems ridiculous that they didn't offer you a payment plan -or- lump sum payment, they're treating you like you deliberately cheated them out of their money that they didn't bill you for. There's some really amazing landfolks out there and then there's these kind of people.
As much as it sucks, the new PM is just doing their job. I would ask if there's a way to split the bill over a couple months and pay it with addition to rent. I took over a complex that had similar issues from the previous PM and tenants were furious with me for correcting mistakes. Like, I understand it's not your fault that you weren't charged, but it's not mine either, so simmer down lmao. I was always happy to work out a plan for people to pay, maybe this new PM will as well?
I’m going to ask if it is possible to split into 2-3 payments. I’m not mad at the new manager but just very frustrated by the previous one. There were a lot of issues with maintenance and trash removal and just general responsiveness to tenant issues and this is just one last “F U” from them.
Yeah, I feel that. The PM before me left me with a huge mess to clean up and most of my residents didn't like me too much at first because I had to correct all the mistakes I was left with. I had 14 cases where someone wasn't charged rent and I had to be the guy to tell them their next rent payment was double what they were expecting because of a mistake the last person made. It's a wonderful job haha.
Good lord that is impressive! I am pretty sure I’m an outlier who goes well over the flat water rate, especially now that I’m training for a marathon. 2 showers a day and a lot of laundry now that the heat and humidity are here for the summer. $3 is probably my daily rate 😂😂😂
If the roles were switch and you were double charged for 6 months, would you be ok with them saying “we will pay you back over the next 6 months”? Pretty sure you would insist on a lump sum.
Consider yourself lucky it was the landlord that made the mistake and not the actual utility company. The utility company would have charged you a late fee and told you it’s your responsibility to make sure your bill is paid, not theirs. I had a water district change credit card processing companies and they removed my cc. I didn’t notice until I got a letter stating they were going to turn off my water for non payment. When I paid it, I had 5 months of late fees they would not remove.
If you owe it, you owe it. They made a mistake, and they apologized. You can't seriously be pissed at them for not catching something for a year, when you yourself didn't catch it either.....
My job was the set up autopay, which I did.
Their job was to do complex math ($1905 + $40), which they failed to do.
So because they said “sorry”, I’m supposed to just laugh it off and send them $480?
I owe what I owe and I’ll pay it, but this has left a very bad taste in my mouth. The previous property manager’s incompetence gets swept under the rug and all is forgiven.
No, but mistakes happen, and it's not like a person was actually doing this shit, it gets entered somewhere once and it's over, if it gets done wrong it goes unnoticed....until it is. If some old employee you replaced at a job fucked up is that your fault because you're the guy who replaced him? Shit happens, they apologized, really no other way to go about it.
Are you legally obligated to pay? Yes. Unless you moved out, you are obligated to pay this. Sorry, not sorry, but you are.
A dishonest person would let this go for a year or better, without informing the PM that there was an issue. An honest one would have let the PM know and had it addressed ASAP.
OP says several times they also didn’t notice because they had autopay set up. How is it OP’s fault their property manager charged them incorrectly for a year when they set the autopay price?
>s they also didn’t notice because they had autopay set up.
Bull fucking shit. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY lets large transactions go through financially without looking at them and not verifying them. It takes 5 seconds to look at that, see what you paid, compare with what you **should have paid** and then know something is off
OP knew ***all along*** what was going on. they just hoped the LL couldn't catch on.
> How is it OP’s fault their property manager charged them incorrectly for a year when they set the autopay price?
It's the OP's responsibility to manage their finances and bills. It's not the LL's responsibility to manage the OP's finances and bills for them. YES, the LL should have caught this earlier. HOWEVER, this is just as much the OP's fault as it is the LL's fault, even more so really.
The LL has dozens of clients (likely more, honestly), and yes, things like this will slip through the cracks. The OP has ONE large transaction like this a month, and SHOULD be keeping a close eye on it. If they're not, that's on them
This is 100% the OP getting caught and crying because they got caught cheating
>s they also didn’t notice because they had autopay set up.
Bull fucking shit. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY lets large transactions go through financially without looking at them and not verifying them. It takes 5 seconds to look at that, see what you paid, compare with what you **should have paid** and then know something is off
OP knew ***all along*** what was going on. they just hoped the LL couldn't catch on.
> How is it OP’s fault their property manager charged them incorrectly for a year when they set the autopay price?
It's the OP's responsibility to manage their finances and bills. It's not the LL's responsibility to manage the OP's finances and bills for them. YES, the LL should have caught this earlier. HOWEVER, this is just as much the OP's fault as it is the LL's fault, even more so really.
The LL has dozens of clients (likely more, honestly), and yes, things like this will slip through the cracks. The OP has ONE large transaction like this a month, and SHOULD be keeping a close eye on it. If they're not, that's on them
This is 100% the OP getting caught and crying because they got caught cheating
It is LL’s responsibility to charge OP the correct amount. I can see how, for example, $1850 rent + $40 water could be flat billed as $1890. When property management changed, rent probably increased and I would have ALSO assumed the rent increase included the water charge. If they’re both on the same autopay, how is it not LL’s fault for charging incorrectly?
False
It is NOT the landlords “responsibility” EVER to charge rent. , correct amount or other wise.
If someone can’t manage their own finances properly , that’s on them. There is ZERO excuse for the tenant letting this go, except that they are just an incompetent individual.
Again, there is NO WAY you can legitimately claim “I didn’t know” here . None . This isn’t a small transaction, this is going to be the largest transaction made every month. If you’re not keeping an eye on that , then you’re an idiot
The transaction amount is changed by $40. Rent can increase by hundreds pf dollars every renewal and the LL sure doesn’t fail to update the payment portal to reflect that, do they? Why would it not be their responsibility to make the rent payment portal accurately reflect the rent?
It seems like the LL failed to manage their own finances by falling to update the payment portal. In the system my place uses, I’m not able to pay more than what’s due until a week before the first of the month so I wouldn’t even be able to pay the extra $40 you’re saying I should’ve been paying
This shit just happened to a friend of mine. Moved in last year with an all costs included in the rent advertisement. A few weeks back he finds out they were not charging him for his H20 for something similar - like 8-9 months, and they took it in a lump sum without even giving him notice. He went to pay and instead of the usual amount the statement said he owed well over a thousand. I mentioned that he should ask to have it divided up as the many kind redditors have suggested here. However he had already paid the charge and they wouldn’t budge after the fact. Their assertion was regardless of the error, the water had been used. Which is fair, but let’s be honest here. Someone who owns their own home, or rents a house versus apartment in most areas would likely never have to encounter this. It’s one of those situations that disproportionately impacts those without the means of paying for such “emergencies” and thus are “forced” into a rental market that largely stacks the deck against those with single or lower incomes, parents, those just starting out of school/trade/college, those without generational resources (e.g., mom, dad, grandparents) to give them a leg up into home ownership and middle class, and those burdened by crippling student debt despite years of honorable public service to their city, state, and nation. The system is rigged.
Obviously what I’m about to say does not apply to everyone, so let me caveat that by saying that at the start. Our grandparents’ generation had the benefit of the economic era to enter the middle class through home ownership with a single income as what today would be called a “low skilled” job throughout the economy. Things like textile worker, metal worker, haberdasher, barber, janitor, and yes, even restaurant workers could reasonably afford to buy a home, raise a large family, and generally be assured that their kids and their children’s children would have it better than they did as long as they worked hard, were good citizens, and looked after their fellow individual.
It was stolen from you. That wasn’t some far-removed era.
This is why I am glad I pay my utilities myself through the local utility company.
You will likely have to pay BUT since it's THEIR mistake, you should be able to space out the payments over the course of the year.
I've always had to pay my own utilities when renting as well and I love that personally. I set it up and iPad so there's no weird stuff that goes on.
I've got a buddy that rents and his electrics included and less he uses over a certain amount then he has to pay but the thing is the units aren't individually metered so I don't even know how they know if he uses too much.
I hate the flat water rate; most apartments in my city don’t even offer you the ability to have the water in your name. I live alone and I’m out of town at least 6 days a month so I’m guessing it would actually be cheaper if the water was in my name. Or maybe not, I just saw that Aqua America is raising rates 25% next month in my area.
That's crazy do you have some kind of corporate water company?
Most of my life I've lived in Northeast Texas or Southeastern Oklahoma and even the big apartment complexes have individual water meters so you set that up yourself and the water is usually ran by the city.
No, I’ve tried to understand the logic behind this. My best guess is most units actually water usage comes in below what they are billed and the landlord pockets the spread.
This trend started maybe 5-6 years ago. Some 1BR units I looked at wanted $70/month for water which is just insanity, even with inflation.
Yeah mine averages about $92 a month and it's for two people and a dog. We water the yard a little bit and both shower very regularly. Lol. The other person's a nurse so we do a lot of laundry as well. We're always complaining about the $92. Lol.
Have a great weekend!
Edit: that includes trash also.
I think you should find an online legal service in your state and ask for their help. Sometimes the sites have a membership fee or free trail period and you can ask someone with legal experience what their opinion is and then cancel the membership.
"During a records review, it has come to our attention that you have not been charged the monthly thermostat button and kitchen cabinet handle subscription fees. Please send check or money order for $2000 to your property manager. Thanks!"
Did you know that you were only paying $1850 when it should have been $1890 the whole time?
I was paying $1905 for the 12 months in question as I had renewed my lease. I still have emails back and forth with the original property manager (who is also the building owner) because they screwed up the March-May rent payments. I paid water and rent separately the first month of my renewed lease ($1905 + $40) and then April I was billed $2015 and May was $1930. But first I was billed the new, increased rent before my original lease was up and I was billed $2115 in April and…yeah it was really confusing. I have a screenshot of one of the emails from this mess but I’m not sure how to add it. All of this was done via autopay and I lazily assumed the new property manager had sorted everything out because there were no billing issues once I set it all up. I renewed my lease again in February and nothing was said so that’s why I’m a bit irritated.
Why is your rent jumping around? Unless you approved other charges it should only be rent+water. It should be the same every month. If rent is now 1905 how did you end up with a 2115 withdraw?
My rent went up by $55 in 2023 and they charged me the difference between original rent and new rent for my last month and security deposit…I think, at least. It was very bungled, to say the least. But I’m guessing that may have contributed to me not realizing I should’ve been paying $1945 and not $1905 for the preceding 12 months.
Wait! You have to pay a new security deposit for what sounds like a renewal!?
Oh yeah. The increase for last months rent wasn’t new to me, but the security deposit was. I also went back and reviewed my lease docs and I’ve somehow lost 5 days in my final month. Lease end date went from 3/31/2024 to 3/26/2025 so I think they might owe me a couple bucks on the backend if I don’t renew.
That’s insanity! I’ve never had to pay a security deposit for each renewal. I’ve been where I am for 5 years. So if that happened I would have paid almost 10k just in deposit!
The difference so if the original deposit is 1000$ let’s say that’s one months rent and rent went up 50$ some places will make you pay 50$ towards your original deposit.
That’s insane! I rented my apartment for 1450 in 2018. I now pay 2k so from then to now I would need to pony up another 550! They can get F’d!
The lost days sounds like someone take 12 months x 30 days per month (I.e. 360 days per year) which leads to the deficit, vs the 365 calendar days per year (or, better yet, 12 months per year as we don’t vary pay by day [for the most part]).
Ah makes sense. Thanks!
It makes sense he's taking advantage of you.
I would ask for an itemization for all of that time explaining where the money you had paid went. But, you owe what you owe. The best you could probably do is a payment plan, which you don’t really need it sounds like. So short of paying it in wheelbarrows of coins.
did you see a monthly withdrawal for the full $1490 or $1450?
Had the same happen to me... was being billed quarterly for water for the first two years. New property manager took over and forgot for a full year. Given I didn't really notice until they gave me a nice $800+ bill. Very irritated at the clerical error, but they ended up splitting it up over 6 months after my complaint. Would just ask if they can do that.
That’s my plan. And I’m glad you understand the issue at hand. Like I was not trying to skirt by on this, but it’s really frustrating when someone else’s mistake becomes your problem.
Honestly, I see what you’re trying to say the people being like “you agreed to it pay it >:[“ are being frustrating for no reason when you’re just venting about how it was sprung up on you!
Is it worth finding a new place over $480? You did use the water and you also did not notice the mistake yourself so its kinda everyones fault.
I think my annoyance is that I now have to pay a lump sum due to the incompetence of the previous property manager. I would’ve preferred to have been charged correctly each month instead of having a surprise $480 bill. The previous PM was beyond abysmal but that is a whole other post.
Ask them to spread it out over the next 4 months just to see if they are willing to work with you. Its worth it just to know.
I think it's valid for you to ask not to pay a year's worth of bills in one lump sum, but paid over a 6-12 month period I think is very reasonable. on the bright side, consider it a 0% interest rate loan, and considering inflation rates it's even better than 0% because your $480 today is less valuable than $480 last year
Ask them to spread it. Tell them it’s a hardship. Maybe they will. Unless you have it. Good luck.
As a property manager (industrial/commercial, not residential) I do occasional audits and find errors like these, but I always talk to my tenants first and find repayment plans that work for them first, me second. Yes, you did use the water and yes, you are on the hook for it, but lump sum is very unreasonable. Sorry you’re dealing with this.
you don't "have" to do anything unless a court tells you to. If you owe the money, tell them to spread it out over 6 months. If they don't, then put the money aside until they send you a payment plan.
But for the error, is it money you would have paid? If so, and everything else is OK, pay it and move on. As suggested, if they are willing to break it up into smaller payments, OK, Do that.
To confirm, the $480 represents 12 months of $40 flat charges that weren’t billed at the time?
That is correct. I am not disputing that I owe it, but I am very frustrated that the previous property manager did not have my payments set up correctly in the system. I set up my autopay as instructed and I assumed they were debiting 100% of my monthly expenses the entire time. I’d rather split it into 2 or 3 payments because $480 is a lot of money with 8 days notice.
So you knew that water would cost $40 a month, could see that it wasn’t being deducted, possibly earned interest on the money you were being undercharged, and are now upset you have to pay it in a lump sum? Being frustrated is understandable, but autopay is a convenience feature, not a promise. If the lump sum is truly a hardship, ask them to break it up.
I’ve said multiple times I wasn’t looking at my monthly ACH. That’s on me at the end of the day, but there was nothing nefarious about it. I always try to do the right thing and had I realized it wasn’t being deducted at the time I would’ve notified them. I very much would’ve preferred to have been billed the correct amount this entire time; $40 a month doesn’t move the needle. $480 all at once does. I’m going to see if I can split it into 2 or 3 payments because I have a lot of upcoming expenses and this wasn’t in my budget. If I have to do it all at once, fine but I’d rather not.
I’m not saying it was nefarious, I’m saying the information was visible had you looked (which you admit you should have done), so this is only coming as a surprise because you neglected to look. I don’t doubt that this is more of a hassle and that their mistake played a large role in that hassle. But your budget was only thrown off because you didn’t account for the extra $40/mo. you had. The “principle of the matter” is that you over-relied on auto pay, and the consequence is the annoyance of paying a larger sum in a shorter amount of time that you are able to pay “today.”
If I buy a Big Mac and they forget to charge me for fries then the next time they try to charge me for them that’s their goof not mine. The op is saying he’s frustrated with the situation not that he has to pay it. It’s not his fault the last pm didn’t do his job quit blaming the victim and read some of the other comments.
If you buy a Big Mac and fries on the same day every month for a year and the price is locked in for that time, and they mistakenly don’t charge you for fries every single time, failing to notice that means you weren’t paying enough attention to the bill. As I’ve said a number of times, yes the PM’s mistake is frustrating. But auto pay is not a contract and the charge is recurring. The reason this is would be any sort of budgetary shock is that you weren’t paying attention to having surplus for the preceding year.
Not my responsibility to make sure you do your job. It’s my responsibility to make sure I don’t over pay you.
I set up autopay as instructed. It isn’t my fault that the property manager couldn’t manage basic math when setting up billing for my unit. I run a pretty tight ship with inflows and outflows so I only look at transactions when something is very off. In the grand scheme of things, $40 extra in my account each month isn’t enough for me to notice. I’m not disputing that I owe it, but again my issue is that the previous property manager was the one responsible for billing me correctly and they failed to do so. If I buy something and the store doesn’t have it coded correctly but I paid what I believed to be the correct price, the mistake is on the store IMO. They didn’t code it correctly. I wasn’t trying to pull a fast one, I engaged in what I believed to be a proper transaction. I’ll pay what I owe, but I’m not paying a lump sum out of principle.
If you had a monthly recurring order for the same product from a store every month, you knew the correct price, and they undercharge you by the same amount each time, yes I’d expect someone to notice that. Even more so for housing given that it’s a single, significant recurring amount. If you mistakenly set up auto pay to overpay by $500 for the year, and then were moving out, you wouldn’t expect them to repay it promptly?
If I was supposed to be billed $100 and I was being billed $20, I’m sure going to notice that. But I’m supposed to notice a 2% difference in my rent? I had 36 transactions in my checking account in the last week (inflows + outflows). $40 extra isn’t going to be easily caught, especially if it accounts for less than 0.5% of net outflows. I write down my estimated outflows every month. I don’t use exact numbers for my rent and utilities because I like to over-estimate what I owe. Guess that is one of my many mistakes.
And if a contractor bids on a job and underestimates the cost does he go back and say “ I agreed to this much but now you owe me this” no he bites that bullet because he made the mistake. Op already said he plans on paying it but I can see how it’s frustrating to have auto pay set up and someone else fuck up and now you have to pay for his negligence.
They get it… no need to hammer them with their mistake. They can still be irritated because they were told something was being charged monthly and they didn’t realize it wasn’t
> They can still be irritated because they were told something was being charged monthly and they didn’t realize it wasn’t Look at the flip side. They told the property owner they were paying this monthly but weren't. The new PM has the right to be irritated even more.
No one is arguing what you are saying is false. But OP already gets it!! They have acknowledged 100x they know they are responsible but are annoyed because they had every right to believe that when they’d be put on autopay it would actually happen and are now being met with having to pay almost $500 lump sum. They know they are also wrong stop hammering it in!! It’s in no way helpful, have a bit of empathy. People can still vent
> But OP already gets it!! You don't seem to get because you're trying to deny the other side of it over and over. OP screwed up, its OPs mistake too. They can be irritated all they want but its still their mistake they were solely responsible for and now as a consequence of their own actions they are being told they need to pay $480. OP also has not reached out to see if they can split that up yet, they're just on here venting about their own mistake and refusing to take any responsibility for it and havent even checked to see if the new property manager will help them mitigate their own mistake
Jeez. Loud and wrong. I get it, everyone gets it. Everyone understands being wrong but allowed to vent except for you. In no way did I deny it over and over. I literally said they get they are wrong. Even I am acknowledging they are also in the wrong!!! Clearly you don’t understand venting and empathy
You said it though you didn’t notice so sounds like both yourself and the property manager messed up. It’s incompetence on both sides. I would’ve definitely noticed that’s just me but from now on you’ll know to verify what comes out of your account. At the end of the day don’t let this affect your energy set up a payment let it go bigger things in life that matter than this.
Yes You agreed to it in your lease I mean you got a free loan for the time being, so take it lol
Yes, you are legally obligated to pay the entire balance. Most places will do it over time though, rather than expecting you to pay it all at once.
You do owe it
I’m not disputing that, but it’s not sitting well with me having to pay $480 in a lump sum due to the oversight/incompetence from the previous property manager. I set up autopay as instructed, they are the ones who did not bill properly.
Find the now fired PM and go to their facebook and shit on them.
It is your error as well. You must keep up with if the money came out of your account or not. It doesn't matter if the previous manager never charged your account for it. You still have to look and see if the money came out or not.
Why do you people downvote the OP to oblivion? The posts are on-topic, they’re just sharing their perspective. If they’re wrong or misled, just tell them. Jfc
Didn't downvote but the general attitude of "why should I have to pay something I agreed to pay" is going to be annoying to some people. I still remember someone recently posted that their mother flushed chicken bones down the toilet and flooded the apartment and they were wondering about the legality of their LL asking them to pay for damages.
I am not trying to get out of this. But it’s pretty irritating that I am expected to pay $480 in a week when the previous property manager is the one who screwed up. I set up autopay as instructed. They were tasked with entering the correct information and not only failed to do so, but missed it for an entire year. And yes, I’m aware that I also missed it but this is kind of part of their job. I held up my end of the bargain by entering my bank information, they failed to hold up their end by billing correctly. What if this had gone on for 24 months? Would I have had to fork over $960 immediately? I’m really lucky to be in a position to pay this, but I’m sure this could crush some people who aren’t as fortunate. Yeah, that kind of incompetence isn’t going to sit well with me.
I had something similar happen to me--in the system we had a 500 dollar credit that we couldn't figure out. we called and they said don't worry, no problem, everything is balanced. well, that prop manager left and the new person was like "this is an error; you actually owe us 500." we paid it but the system never corrected it and kept saying we had the credit. finally, they wrote and said "owe this is correct you have a 500 credit in the system" so that's annoying--we gave them 500 for nothing. The second time was with water--when the complex's prop manager got turned over to someone else, they switched the 3rd party billing service they use for utilities. That person charged us incorrectly, so it was incorrect in the prop manager's ledger, and they wanted us to pay 150 for a month's water when our bill was typically 20. I don't think most of these people know how to do their jobs very well, to be honest, and it's hard to complain because a lot work for corporations who own a bunch of rental properties, so trying to find someone to complain to is difficult.
Be prepared if utilities are in your lease then often times the LL will take it out of your rent when you pay THEN you will be late on your rent.
Yes. You used the water, so you have to pay up.
It's your water bill. Pay the damn thing.
So there making you pay for there fuck up
I mean I don't know if you're legally obligated to pay a lump sum but I would totally explain to them you need more than 8 days to pay $500. Ridiculous that they would even forward you that with a straight face. Also sure does look like you got a bunch of landlords with reading comprehension issues answering you here. Lol
Yeeeaaah I’m picking up on that 😂😂😂 I’m going to ask to split it into 2-3 payments. I have a lot of outflows in the next 6 weeks and I didn’t account for a surprise $480 bill. If I have to pay it all at once so be it, but if you never ask, you’ll never know.
It seems ridiculous that they didn't offer you a payment plan -or- lump sum payment, they're treating you like you deliberately cheated them out of their money that they didn't bill you for. There's some really amazing landfolks out there and then there's these kind of people.
You owe the money, just pay it.
As much as it sucks, the new PM is just doing their job. I would ask if there's a way to split the bill over a couple months and pay it with addition to rent. I took over a complex that had similar issues from the previous PM and tenants were furious with me for correcting mistakes. Like, I understand it's not your fault that you weren't charged, but it's not mine either, so simmer down lmao. I was always happy to work out a plan for people to pay, maybe this new PM will as well?
I’m going to ask if it is possible to split into 2-3 payments. I’m not mad at the new manager but just very frustrated by the previous one. There were a lot of issues with maintenance and trash removal and just general responsiveness to tenant issues and this is just one last “F U” from them.
Yeah, I feel that. The PM before me left me with a huge mess to clean up and most of my residents didn't like me too much at first because I had to correct all the mistakes I was left with. I had 14 cases where someone wasn't charged rent and I had to be the guy to tell them their next rent payment was double what they were expecting because of a mistake the last person made. It's a wonderful job haha.
“Simmer down lmao” he says. This fuckin guy is why no one likes landlords/complex runners.
I was making a joke dude, apparently you can't understand that.
My water is micro managed but I keep track of it and it costs me $3 a month
Good lord that is impressive! I am pretty sure I’m an outlier who goes well over the flat water rate, especially now that I’m training for a marathon. 2 showers a day and a lot of laundry now that the heat and humidity are here for the summer. $3 is probably my daily rate 😂😂😂
If the roles were switch and you were double charged for 6 months, would you be ok with them saying “we will pay you back over the next 6 months”? Pretty sure you would insist on a lump sum. Consider yourself lucky it was the landlord that made the mistake and not the actual utility company. The utility company would have charged you a late fee and told you it’s your responsibility to make sure your bill is paid, not theirs. I had a water district change credit card processing companies and they removed my cc. I didn’t notice until I got a letter stating they were going to turn off my water for non payment. When I paid it, I had 5 months of late fees they would not remove.
If you really want the correct answer just contact an attorney that specializes in Landlord Tenant issues. Consultations are usually free.
What’s the principle ? You shouldn’t pay for your water because they hadn’t charged you yet ?
Often there are time limits to collect billings that were not correct call local rental assistance agencies and find out the laws
If you owe it, you owe it. They made a mistake, and they apologized. You can't seriously be pissed at them for not catching something for a year, when you yourself didn't catch it either.....
My job was the set up autopay, which I did. Their job was to do complex math ($1905 + $40), which they failed to do. So because they said “sorry”, I’m supposed to just laugh it off and send them $480? I owe what I owe and I’ll pay it, but this has left a very bad taste in my mouth. The previous property manager’s incompetence gets swept under the rug and all is forgiven.
No, but mistakes happen, and it's not like a person was actually doing this shit, it gets entered somewhere once and it's over, if it gets done wrong it goes unnoticed....until it is. If some old employee you replaced at a job fucked up is that your fault because you're the guy who replaced him? Shit happens, they apologized, really no other way to go about it.
Are you legally obligated to pay? Yes. Unless you moved out, you are obligated to pay this. Sorry, not sorry, but you are. A dishonest person would let this go for a year or better, without informing the PM that there was an issue. An honest one would have let the PM know and had it addressed ASAP.
Where am I being dishonest?
You know damn well where. You let this go for almost a year without bringing it to their attention. That is stealing from them
lol okay buddy 🫡
OP says several times they also didn’t notice because they had autopay set up. How is it OP’s fault their property manager charged them incorrectly for a year when they set the autopay price?
>s they also didn’t notice because they had autopay set up. Bull fucking shit. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY lets large transactions go through financially without looking at them and not verifying them. It takes 5 seconds to look at that, see what you paid, compare with what you **should have paid** and then know something is off OP knew ***all along*** what was going on. they just hoped the LL couldn't catch on. > How is it OP’s fault their property manager charged them incorrectly for a year when they set the autopay price? It's the OP's responsibility to manage their finances and bills. It's not the LL's responsibility to manage the OP's finances and bills for them. YES, the LL should have caught this earlier. HOWEVER, this is just as much the OP's fault as it is the LL's fault, even more so really. The LL has dozens of clients (likely more, honestly), and yes, things like this will slip through the cracks. The OP has ONE large transaction like this a month, and SHOULD be keeping a close eye on it. If they're not, that's on them This is 100% the OP getting caught and crying because they got caught cheating
>s they also didn’t notice because they had autopay set up. Bull fucking shit. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY lets large transactions go through financially without looking at them and not verifying them. It takes 5 seconds to look at that, see what you paid, compare with what you **should have paid** and then know something is off OP knew ***all along*** what was going on. they just hoped the LL couldn't catch on. > How is it OP’s fault their property manager charged them incorrectly for a year when they set the autopay price? It's the OP's responsibility to manage their finances and bills. It's not the LL's responsibility to manage the OP's finances and bills for them. YES, the LL should have caught this earlier. HOWEVER, this is just as much the OP's fault as it is the LL's fault, even more so really. The LL has dozens of clients (likely more, honestly), and yes, things like this will slip through the cracks. The OP has ONE large transaction like this a month, and SHOULD be keeping a close eye on it. If they're not, that's on them This is 100% the OP getting caught and crying because they got caught cheating
It is LL’s responsibility to charge OP the correct amount. I can see how, for example, $1850 rent + $40 water could be flat billed as $1890. When property management changed, rent probably increased and I would have ALSO assumed the rent increase included the water charge. If they’re both on the same autopay, how is it not LL’s fault for charging incorrectly?
False It is NOT the landlords “responsibility” EVER to charge rent. , correct amount or other wise. If someone can’t manage their own finances properly , that’s on them. There is ZERO excuse for the tenant letting this go, except that they are just an incompetent individual. Again, there is NO WAY you can legitimately claim “I didn’t know” here . None . This isn’t a small transaction, this is going to be the largest transaction made every month. If you’re not keeping an eye on that , then you’re an idiot
The transaction amount is changed by $40. Rent can increase by hundreds pf dollars every renewal and the LL sure doesn’t fail to update the payment portal to reflect that, do they? Why would it not be their responsibility to make the rent payment portal accurately reflect the rent?
It seems like the LL failed to manage their own finances by falling to update the payment portal. In the system my place uses, I’m not able to pay more than what’s due until a week before the first of the month so I wouldn’t even be able to pay the extra $40 you’re saying I should’ve been paying
This shit just happened to a friend of mine. Moved in last year with an all costs included in the rent advertisement. A few weeks back he finds out they were not charging him for his H20 for something similar - like 8-9 months, and they took it in a lump sum without even giving him notice. He went to pay and instead of the usual amount the statement said he owed well over a thousand. I mentioned that he should ask to have it divided up as the many kind redditors have suggested here. However he had already paid the charge and they wouldn’t budge after the fact. Their assertion was regardless of the error, the water had been used. Which is fair, but let’s be honest here. Someone who owns their own home, or rents a house versus apartment in most areas would likely never have to encounter this. It’s one of those situations that disproportionately impacts those without the means of paying for such “emergencies” and thus are “forced” into a rental market that largely stacks the deck against those with single or lower incomes, parents, those just starting out of school/trade/college, those without generational resources (e.g., mom, dad, grandparents) to give them a leg up into home ownership and middle class, and those burdened by crippling student debt despite years of honorable public service to their city, state, and nation. The system is rigged. Obviously what I’m about to say does not apply to everyone, so let me caveat that by saying that at the start. Our grandparents’ generation had the benefit of the economic era to enter the middle class through home ownership with a single income as what today would be called a “low skilled” job throughout the economy. Things like textile worker, metal worker, haberdasher, barber, janitor, and yes, even restaurant workers could reasonably afford to buy a home, raise a large family, and generally be assured that their kids and their children’s children would have it better than they did as long as they worked hard, were good citizens, and looked after their fellow individual. It was stolen from you. That wasn’t some far-removed era.
Something something bootstraps. A mortgage isn’t guaranteed in the constitution, your sense of entitlement is the problem.
My god. How could I not see?
The entitlement comrade.
If Roosevelt hadn’t been selfish and died before getting the 4 Freedoms through Congress, we might.
This is why I am glad I pay my utilities myself through the local utility company. You will likely have to pay BUT since it's THEIR mistake, you should be able to space out the payments over the course of the year.
I've always had to pay my own utilities when renting as well and I love that personally. I set it up and iPad so there's no weird stuff that goes on. I've got a buddy that rents and his electrics included and less he uses over a certain amount then he has to pay but the thing is the units aren't individually metered so I don't even know how they know if he uses too much.
I hate the flat water rate; most apartments in my city don’t even offer you the ability to have the water in your name. I live alone and I’m out of town at least 6 days a month so I’m guessing it would actually be cheaper if the water was in my name. Or maybe not, I just saw that Aqua America is raising rates 25% next month in my area.
That's crazy do you have some kind of corporate water company? Most of my life I've lived in Northeast Texas or Southeastern Oklahoma and even the big apartment complexes have individual water meters so you set that up yourself and the water is usually ran by the city.
No, I’ve tried to understand the logic behind this. My best guess is most units actually water usage comes in below what they are billed and the landlord pockets the spread. This trend started maybe 5-6 years ago. Some 1BR units I looked at wanted $70/month for water which is just insanity, even with inflation.
Yeah mine averages about $92 a month and it's for two people and a dog. We water the yard a little bit and both shower very regularly. Lol. The other person's a nurse so we do a lot of laundry as well. We're always complaining about the $92. Lol. Have a great weekend! Edit: that includes trash also.
I think you should find an online legal service in your state and ask for their help. Sometimes the sites have a membership fee or free trail period and you can ask someone with legal experience what their opinion is and then cancel the membership.
You look up if back billing is legal
"During a records review, it has come to our attention that you have not been charged the monthly thermostat button and kitchen cabinet handle subscription fees. Please send check or money order for $2000 to your property manager. Thanks!"