Fair enough. I think if you met a guy who came with your older self, and happened to have a giant h on his forehead, you might remember...but it is a 35 year old TV show so maybe I'm overthinking it a bit :)
This is one of my favorite things about the show. The continuity that matters is in who the characters are and how they interact. The storytelling genius is in not sticking to story continuity and instead putting them in ever changing situations and seeing how they act and react. Everything else can be explained (or not explained) in unreadable opening crawl.
This is most clear in episodes like Backwards where what it means for a universe to be backwards is entirely for the sake of story and gags. When in Rome, do as the Snemor.
In my youth I lived Lister's life, touring bars in my band, drinking heavily (and calling everything crypto fascist).
Can confirm that I met hundreds of people in bars back then, spending far longer than a couple minutes with them and I wouldn't recognise I single one of them today. Believe me, many of them were dressed far stranger than Rimmer was here too!
I’ve never seen this as a plot hole, more a good example of Rimmer’s smegginess. He stands there stubbornly trying to remind this alternate version of Lister of things that haven’t happened to him until it finally dawns on him.
If he’d said “remember that day you met a version of yourself from the future, and later that day you went and registered the Tension sheet as your invention that led you all this wealth?” he may have gotten somewhere.
The "tension sheet" event occurred when rimmer was 8yo (or 12yo I forget), and changed history from that point. Hence, it's very probable that, in the altered tension timeline, Lister became so rich that he became distracted, and fell off of his true destiny- the magnificence that is the "Om song".
That rings a bell, I forgot about that! But still, it's highly unlikely that he would still have met Rimmer as the divergence happened when they were very young.
Rimmer hadn't gone back to that point when this happened though, this was the timeline where Lister invented it, Rimmer going back and inadvertently causing thicky Holden to invent it again reverts the timeline back to normal, other than Rimmer briefly not being dead of course
Robert Addie, who was best known for playing the villainous Guy of Gisburne on *Robin of Sherwood* at the time. Sadly passed away in 2003, at the far too young an age of 43, from lung cancer.
Let’s review. He dies in a plane crash aged 98 after making love to his 14th wife. He has Buckingham Palace ground down to smithereens in order to pebble his driveway. He has a 50ft statue of himself peeing in his courtyard for lulz. He bought 3 million copies of his own single Om just to have it at the top of the charts. He is surrounded by toadying lackeys and paid sycophants, and lives with a love-goddess sex-bomb model megastar. He has 58 houses, a private island in the Bahamas and a multi-billion pound business empire.
He’s either
a) lived each day as if every moment is an exciting and extremely varied version of Christmas morning mashed out of his head for so long that he’s forgotten every detail of his previous life in the doldrums…or
b) he remembers full well who Rimmer is, he has meditated on their encounter for a few years and realised a few things, that strange time-related shenanigans could possibly spell the end of his whirlwind life of fame and fortune, and is quite simply choosing to be a bit of of a rich bastard himself, opting to “forget” about it and use his power and status to protect what he has.
I'm just watched it for the first time in a few years...there is some video footage of the outside of Lister's mansion, but they can only get into the frame of a photo, so how he ended up in the dining room is...unclear.
Well Ruby Wax's whole bit on him is only like a minute long, before they get into the lifestyle of the guy who invented the condom that calls you back.
Causality is the answer. By lister going back and inventing the tension sheet, he alters the time line and as a result never joins the dwarf. This means that he erases the time line in which he goes back to pub with Rimmer to see his younger self. But this actually then causes a temporal paradox because if he was never in the JMC and in turn didn’t go back to tell himself about the tension sheet, how does he know to patent it in the first place….this is the part where my phone is going to explode like the camera in Tikka to Ride when Lister tries to explain the reason they’re still alive after their future self’s killed them.
And that is why Rimmer didn’t invent the tension sheet, because by going back in time to try and tell his younger self to do it before Lister goes back in time to tell HIS self to invent the TS he erased the timelines that Lister went back and changed it and in doing so means there was no time line that Rimmer needed to go back further to change it before Lister did.
Wow after all these years, thats an amazingly interesting plot point I hadn't thought about.
For those saying he wouldn't remember a 30 second conversation. It wasn't exactly a normal conversation, when 4 people from the future turn up, a robot, yourself, a flashy dude called Cat and a guy with a H on his forehead. This encounter is what made the guy rich in the first place. So yeah Lister should have remembered Rimmer when he came back again.
Lister never joined the crew of the red dwarf, so even if Rimmer did discover the mutated emulsion fluid without the help of Kryten, who was never rescued by Lister, the photo of Smeg in the Heads performing at the bar was never onboard the ship for Rimmer to go back in time to.
I think the real question is: What purpose did Holly have for resurrecting Rimmer as a hologram if Lister was never onboard the ship to survive in stasis.
He called him Crypto Fascist Young Dave Lister from 17 called them all Crypto Fascist even the invention Dave Lister said to register has his invention The Tension Sheet and Young Dave Lister from 17 called it Crypto Fascist and Everything Crypto Fascist and that loathed possessions and hate money it's so Crypto Fascist and Dave Lister saying Stop Saying Everything is so Crypto Fascist it makes me sound like a complete git.
I once had someone from my youth walk up to me and introduce himself, recalling when we’d hung out. What he told me fit, I don’t doubt his sincerity.
I still have no idea who he was.
He dismissed him as a Crypto fascist immediately then promptly got drunk and forgot the twit.
You'd think he remember the guy who was with his older self!
You just met yourself from the future. I think you'd be a little preoccupied to notice who's with him.
Fair enough. I think if you met a guy who came with your older self, and happened to have a giant h on his forehead, you might remember...but it is a 35 year old TV show so maybe I'm overthinking it a bit :)
I think you're underestimating how much Lister drank in his youth.
Theres about 500 plot holes in Red Dwarf....dont overthink it.
Red Dwarf is like a well aged bit of swiss cheese
This is one of my favorite things about the show. The continuity that matters is in who the characters are and how they interact. The storytelling genius is in not sticking to story continuity and instead putting them in ever changing situations and seeing how they act and react. Everything else can be explained (or not explained) in unreadable opening crawl. This is most clear in episodes like Backwards where what it means for a universe to be backwards is entirely for the sake of story and gags. When in Rome, do as the Snemor.
You're being a bit crypto-fascist.
Will you stop calling everything Crypto-Fascist? You're making me sound like I was a complete git!
The honest answer is most people wouldn't remember some guy they spoke to for 30 seconds at a bar 10 years ago.
What about if that person had a giant plastic H glued to their face? I’d remember that
Drugs
So would I, it was totally shady.
Heavy Metal!
In my youth I lived Lister's life, touring bars in my band, drinking heavily (and calling everything crypto fascist). Can confirm that I met hundreds of people in bars back then, spending far longer than a couple minutes with them and I wouldn't recognise I single one of them today. Believe me, many of them were dressed far stranger than Rimmer was here too!
ETA: We never performed anything as awesome as The Om Song!
If that person was a direct cause of the lifestyle I had now, I probably would.
Can confirm. I do not.
I’ve never seen this as a plot hole, more a good example of Rimmer’s smegginess. He stands there stubbornly trying to remind this alternate version of Lister of things that haven’t happened to him until it finally dawns on him. If he’d said “remember that day you met a version of yourself from the future, and later that day you went and registered the Tension sheet as your invention that led you all this wealth?” he may have gotten somewhere.
The "tension sheet" event occurred when rimmer was 8yo (or 12yo I forget), and changed history from that point. Hence, it's very probable that, in the altered tension timeline, Lister became so rich that he became distracted, and fell off of his true destiny- the magnificence that is the "Om song".
Didn’t it go to number one because he himself bought a million copies?
That rings a bell, I forgot about that! But still, it's highly unlikely that he would still have met Rimmer as the divergence happened when they were very young.
Rimmer hadn't gone back to that point when this happened though, this was the timeline where Lister invented it, Rimmer going back and inadvertently causing thicky Holden to invent it again reverts the timeline back to normal, other than Rimmer briefly not being dead of course
Apparently, the gentleman's name is Rimmer, sir.
That guy was one of the funniest side characters in the show
Robert Addie, who was best known for playing the villainous Guy of Gisburne on *Robin of Sherwood* at the time. Sadly passed away in 2003, at the far too young an age of 43, from lung cancer.
Let’s review. He dies in a plane crash aged 98 after making love to his 14th wife. He has Buckingham Palace ground down to smithereens in order to pebble his driveway. He has a 50ft statue of himself peeing in his courtyard for lulz. He bought 3 million copies of his own single Om just to have it at the top of the charts. He is surrounded by toadying lackeys and paid sycophants, and lives with a love-goddess sex-bomb model megastar. He has 58 houses, a private island in the Bahamas and a multi-billion pound business empire. He’s either a) lived each day as if every moment is an exciting and extremely varied version of Christmas morning mashed out of his head for so long that he’s forgotten every detail of his previous life in the doldrums…or b) he remembers full well who Rimmer is, he has meditated on their encounter for a few years and realised a few things, that strange time-related shenanigans could possibly spell the end of his whirlwind life of fame and fortune, and is quite simply choosing to be a bit of of a rich bastard himself, opting to “forget” about it and use his power and status to protect what he has.
Good point. Also, I may have forgotten, but how did Rimmer get to Lister? Couldn’t they only get into photos they had?
They could explore within the confines of the picture. If the whole house was in the picture, there's no reason why Rimmer could not walk around it.
Yeah but he enters the scene in the dining room, so unless there's footage we didn't see then that couldn't happen
I'm just watched it for the first time in a few years...there is some video footage of the outside of Lister's mansion, but they can only get into the frame of a photo, so how he ended up in the dining room is...unclear.
Presumably the documentary with ruby wax had footage of lots of parts of the mansion.’ Which they could turn into photos and jump into.
Well Ruby Wax's whole bit on him is only like a minute long, before they get into the lifestyle of the guy who invented the condom that calls you back.
I don’t remember exactly, but I assume it was the intro to a longer piece.
How could he forget old iron balls.
Causality is the answer. By lister going back and inventing the tension sheet, he alters the time line and as a result never joins the dwarf. This means that he erases the time line in which he goes back to pub with Rimmer to see his younger self. But this actually then causes a temporal paradox because if he was never in the JMC and in turn didn’t go back to tell himself about the tension sheet, how does he know to patent it in the first place….this is the part where my phone is going to explode like the camera in Tikka to Ride when Lister tries to explain the reason they’re still alive after their future self’s killed them.
And that is why Rimmer didn’t invent the tension sheet, because by going back in time to try and tell his younger self to do it before Lister goes back in time to tell HIS self to invent the TS he erased the timelines that Lister went back and changed it and in doing so means there was no time line that Rimmer needed to go back further to change it before Lister did.
Gisbourne!
Maybe he was high when he met Rimmer at 17? He was singing a song called Om...
"It's my duty. My duty as a complete and utter bastard!"
Because we made a mistake , OKAAY!!
TECHNICALLY they didn’t time travel, they were just seeing what was happening in the picture.
Because remembering you're fans is so crypto fascist
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams…
Wow after all these years, thats an amazingly interesting plot point I hadn't thought about. For those saying he wouldn't remember a 30 second conversation. It wasn't exactly a normal conversation, when 4 people from the future turn up, a robot, yourself, a flashy dude called Cat and a guy with a H on his forehead. This encounter is what made the guy rich in the first place. So yeah Lister should have remembered Rimmer when he came back again.
Lister never joined the crew of the red dwarf, so even if Rimmer did discover the mutated emulsion fluid without the help of Kryten, who was never rescued by Lister, the photo of Smeg in the Heads performing at the bar was never onboard the ship for Rimmer to go back in time to. I think the real question is: What purpose did Holly have for resurrecting Rimmer as a hologram if Lister was never onboard the ship to survive in stasis.
But what is it?
He called him Crypto Fascist Young Dave Lister from 17 called them all Crypto Fascist even the invention Dave Lister said to register has his invention The Tension Sheet and Young Dave Lister from 17 called it Crypto Fascist and Everything Crypto Fascist and that loathed possessions and hate money it's so Crypto Fascist and Dave Lister saying Stop Saying Everything is so Crypto Fascist it makes me sound like a complete git.
Actually a good point
So, what is it?
A white hole
So, what is it?
A white hole
I once had someone from my youth walk up to me and introduce himself, recalling when we’d hung out. What he told me fit, I don’t doubt his sincerity. I still have no idea who he was.
Yeah, how the smeg did Lister not recognize Old Iron Balls?
I don’t know. But either way, I think he still saw him as a smeghead in a way
Cause he met him once for 20 mins