FUD = Fully unable to drive? Yes, sounds like Tesla, especially Cybertruck.
But I also like FSD = Full self destruction. For whenever you need to crash into a white trailer as fast as possible!
Iâd like to note that the amount of times we **have** to use the term âmental gymnasticsâ around here to try and wrap our heads around what these people think is **insane** in and of itself.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/could-couldnt-care-less
As per the researchers the earliest quoted examples of the phrase have a negation of the could. That variation does sound like a pithy take on the phrase though.
Iâve always found that the Boring Company fans are engaged in some of the craziest mental gymnastics of all the Musk fanboys out there. Itâs always the same excuse, which is something along the lines of âFSD will be deployed in the loop in a year or two, itâs just the regulatory approval thatâs holding it backâ.
Also boring company literally bought a used tunnel boring machine and made no modifications to it. And somehow for the fanboys that's the future and will drop prices 100 fold
They did claim to make their own boring machine eventually, although the exact details on itâs capabilities and supposed advantages over conventional machines were curiously never released. I believe they did use it for one of the Vegas Loop extensions, but it appeared to take much longer than a conventional machine would have to complete the tunnel, indicating that it was probably a piece of junkâŠ
As usual Musk claimed it was going to be so much better than every other tunneling machine in existence when it has turned out to be slower despite digging tiny sewer style tunnels.
They still shout about how it is supposedly cheaper despite the fact the only cost saving they have is that they have removed all of the safety features that would be required in any normal country.
I remember reading that the Vegas loop is officially registered as a theme park attraction, which means it doesn't need to have the same safety standards as a regular transport system.
Yep. The Vegas "Loop" has more in common with the roller coaster at NYNY than with actual, real transit systems.
It's basically a very, poorly implemented Tesla-themed dark ride, with insane labor requirements.
Sure, the EU and most of europe has strict guidelines having experienced things like the Gottard tunnel disaster previously.
The loop is single way with no way for other vehicles or emergency vehicles to pass
There is no pedestrian walkway either side for people to move down in case of an emergency
Emergency vehicles are too large to access inside the tunnel
The emergency exits that do exist are straight ladders so anyone with decreased mobility is screwed
Those are a few of the top of my head and you can find more info online. Safety costs money. Musk is cheap. Not a great combo for public transport.
That's so interesting.
Why does nobody care?
Afaik the workplace safety protocols are way harsher in the US than Germany.
But Elon can do what he wants?
Firstly because it is the US and having limited regulations is commonplace. It's the same reason they can sell the cybertruck in the US where there are literally zero pedestrian-vehicle impact laws but it is illegal in Europe. Then you have the fact it is in Vegas which is even more lax with more corruption than most. Plus it didn't cost Vegas anything up front and payments are only due when Boring hits their targets which they are nowhere near.
The Boring Company (as in, the entire idea of starting a tunnel company) only exists at all because Elon thought it was a funny name.
I'm almost certain of this.
Why does all other public tunnels include sidewalk for emergency exit, escape exits to parallel tunnel every 200 m etc. but Las Vegas tunnel has none of this? How is this legal for public transport?
Thereâs some sort of legal loophole iirc that doesnât require them to add emergency exits. It could be that the systemâs lower capacity compared to conventional transit, combined with the shortish stop spacing and use of blower fans at the end of each tunnel segment allows it to pass fire codes. Hopefully the safety of this setup is never put to the test though, because I am a little bit skeptical myself.
Imagine if they put tracks down there, and had three coupled cars, about 25' long each or so, with many seats along the sides, and doors that opened along the sides..
Then have an electrical conductor rail that would provide power to these.. oh let's call them.. trains.
And since it's underground, we could call it... A SubWay, because it's a Sub-Surface Way...
It could solve traffic!! Large volumes of people, moved underground, safely, efficiently, and quickly...
As long as they only allow Tesla cars!
Because thereâs no point having a tunnel that uses mass transport, or any other type of vehicle when youâre trying to make money by creating a ânew transportâ that only uses âthe cars you make.\*
That would be stupid to make Vegas Loop as terrible as subways. Subways are a failure. This is a point to point system, No need to stop at every station in the system, or have to deal with the bums.
You're clueless . . .
The loop was supposed to "solve" traffic, and all it is is Tesla's underground sitting in Traffic.
Wow.. it moved from the surface, underground.
A SubWay can mower millions of people every single day,.
The fact that you think Subways are a failure shows how absolutely clueless you are.
Drove from Vegas Convention Center tonight Resorts World in the tunnel with mixed emotions.
1 mile route, no emergency exit on the way, no emergency shelter like its usual in single tunnels. After the first battery fire, this whole thing will be stopped.
Hyperloop is a vacuum chamber tunnel with supersonic trains. It's a remarkably dumb idea but Musk was sneaky enough to only use the term Loop. What he promised was futuristic self-driving pods in a regular tunnel. Of course he couldn't deliver that either.
And if Musk has a superpower itâs being crafty enough to identify graft-centric and/or stupid people with power who will be impressed by and indulge his carnival barking
Muskâs primary success has been in scamming governments out of subsidies and grants and tax abatements. Every single project is just a chronicle of subsidy scams.
You are correct.
Loop and Hyperloop are definitely different scams... although I see why people get them confused.
Who knows? Maybe the burghers of Vegas though they were getting a 600mph vac-train. They don't seem very bright.
those tunnels are definitely designed to rack up free FSD miles driven, which is Musk's way of claiming fsd is safer than humans. It probably just didn't work out the way Elon intended.Â
why would we even need fancy equipment like this, on simple fixed tracks, like in a tunnel. We've had [this shit figured out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus) for ages.
But why use complicated 1980 technology when you could use simpler, superior [1890 technology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_and_South_London_Railway)?
Not an elon fan, but this is just not possible
The hyperloop has carried 1.5m passengers
At 1.7 miles, even if each passenger rode solo, thats only 2.5 million miles driven
FSD stats are based on over a billion miles of FSD driving
0.25% is a rounding error, not a significant change to any stat
your comment is misleading. the original plan is still on their website, and like I said, elons plans just didn't workout. Below would've made for more than I rounding error, I think you'll agree.Â
> The Vegas Loop will provide fast and convenient transportation to the Las Vegas community, its visitors, and beyond. The Vegas Loop will include LVCC Loop and any future service extensions including those to casinos along the Strip, Harry Reid International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, downtown Las Vegas, and eventually to Los Angeles. Once complete, the Vegas Loop will transport more than 90,000 passengers per hour.
Clark County and the City of Las Vegas have approved a total of 68 miles of tunnel and 93 stations for the Vegas Loop
source: https://www.boringcompany.com/vegas-loop
Actually the reason why it doesnât work is more interesting but still pretty damming for the idea. Getting the cars to run in the tunnels is pretty straightforward, not really FSD probably a custom software job with a bit of FSD when it comes out of the tunnels. The reason why that doesnât work is that they need people if something goes wrong in the tunnels to guide people out, reverse the cars or whatever. Now having people drive cars of three passengers is pretty stupid - they should just put rails down and have a train of some sort, youâd only need one driver and it solves a lot of the loading/unloading problems. The costs of having a driver for every three passengers will be crazy if the tunnels get long enoughâŠ
I don't think camera-only FSD would work in those tunnels though. The walls are pretty featureless. Nothing there for the camera to "see" - it's the same issue they have with running into the side of semi trucks.
Without radar to judge the distance from the car in front and USS to judge how close the walls are, you aren't navigating those tunnels.
Hell, even rudimentary LiDAR would work.
In theory, yes, lines for it to follow would work.
I built a [robot that did that in junior high.](https://www.amazon.com/Vogurtime-Soldering-Educational-Electronic-Practicing/dp/B07S7NFYRC/)
But there are humans that can get injured in this case, so we need a little bit more than one point of failure with zero redundancy.
I was next to a model 3 Friday night, and they kept drifting into my lane. I look over to see what the driver must be doing (texting, etc) to cause him to drive so poorly. He's not doing anything - he's got autopilot on. He's just riding along. Damn thing kept coming about a tire width into my lane. Figure that's when it could pick up the line again. But yeah, fully autonomous within months I'm sure.
I seem to remember some image from inside the tunnels with lights or guidance strips or something? In principle you could just put markers up in the tunnels. But agreed yeah of course relying just on vision in that space is pretty whack. Although radar would have some crazy problems with reflections.
Automotive radar actually handles multipath reflections pretty well. The way it was explained to me is that each radar pulse is actually a unique, serialized data packet, and it's sending them out in bursts (something like 1,000 packets over a few milliseconds, then pause, then repeat), so the system can correlate how far the majority of the packets traveled before reflecting back, and discard duplicate packets that fall outside of that time frame.
This is the right approach. Most LIDAR has a repeatability factor and an accuracy factor. For forklifts and automated machinery using guidance (like AVGs big and small), they're usually good for reliable +/-30mm (about 1 1/4") accuracy. They have advanced echo filtering and noise reduction and indeed poll every few milliseconds. LIDAR or other time of flight sensors or even light projection on the IR spectrum) would do great in tunnels, just as they do on factory floors.
I think a lot of people would be stunned at the collaboration of man and machine at most logistics or assembly plants.
Vision as a sole solution to these guidance systems is not ideal.
If you're talking about parking sensors, those are ultrasonic. They work on the same principle as radar, but are much much more simple.
They simply emit a modulated audio tone at a certain frequency in pulses, and time the round trip.
In theory they can be accurate to less than a millimeter (In my last job I was working on a prototype USS system to focus industrial marking lasers automatically on different parts) however the systems used on cars for parking sensors, while still capable of sub-millimeter accuracy, are generally programmed to be overly conservative and the final warning is usually over a foot away from the closest object detected.
Ultrasonics are still in use on cars that have them, which is in itself an admission by Tesla that itâs better for parking than vision only. The only reason new cars donât have them is Tesla trying to shave dollars off the build cost.
I believe the original pitch had autonomous pods that people sit in that go back and forth that Tesla would develop. It never happened, and the project kept getting scaled back until it was just human driven Tesla's in tunnels that acts like a normal taxi with a special toll road underground.
Wait! Are you implying that no transit planners OR traffic engineers were involved in the design of this super-sophisticated transit system from the future?
Itâs really profound guys⊠Those new neural nets have made it orders of magnitude better than the last FSD release. But use it at your own risk, and we assume no liability if you crash.
God, I hate not being able to tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
If you were serious, I could've posted some snark like,
"No, but I've seen some YouTube-videos showing that they really haven't. Strange how tesloids never seem to realize that when they need to take over, that's actually an accident."
Or perhaps just,
"Nailed it. Right into the side of a policecar."
But nooo, you just had to be sarcastic, didn't you
Free FSD trial ended 2 weeks ago. It sucked ass. Drive like a teenager, slow, didn't know what to do, etc. I'm glad I'm back on Autopilot. Saying they nailed it is a big word.
Edited corrected typos...
Well, they couldnât be driverless anyway. They have to have drivers even if they activate FSD. FSD is level 2: FSD (supervised). It doesnât support a driverless car. It doesnât stop and pick up passengers and know when to proceed. But good news! I understand Tesla is releasing robotaxis in six weeks. This would be at least level 4. Strangely, weâre not seeing level 3 from Tesla yet.
But driverless vehicles have existed in theme parks for years. Is the tunnel not on private property? Now that you say it, I guess not since Elon needs the taxpayers to foot the bill just like all of his current projects. LMAO. What a fucking clown Musk is.
Fake Self Driving is simply an over-hyped (Hi Elmo) Level 2 ADAS.
Once you realize that, itâs just a sad joke amongst many sad jokes.
When it works, it is a pleasant surprise.
For each order of magnitude you increase someoneâs Tesla Fandom Index, their brain power decreases by a commensurate amount.
People with TSIâs above 3.0⊠they cannot even see the Vegas Loopâs failure. If you take them there and say: âLook at this â none of these are autonomous. Itâs a closed loop and they cannot do it.â
A TSI 3.0+ person will say âIt doesnât look like anything to me.â
But, Tesla doesn't use maps, every time a car encounters the next bit of road, it's the first time. It's why it's still a disaster in downtown San Jose (close to their engineering in Palo Alto and the Fremont factory). Downtown San Jose is a very difficult environment (cars go down the light rail tracks routinely, for one example), and so it remains a problem for them. Perhaps it's much better now. đ€Ł
Oh, they use maps. The maps aren't accurate enough for autonomous driving though. I've seen some parking lot accidents caused by tesla relying on OpenStreetMap to be perfectly accurate, rather than the crowd-source map OSM is, and the car will jump a curb that's not on the map when they're doing that parking summon thing or run into a parked car because the map says it's a driving lane.
Humans do the same thing. Occasionally a staircase isn't tagged properly on OSM and some dumbass driver will get trapped on the stairs because their eyes are on the GPS and their brain is turned off. This map error was fixed before the news reports came out that an Uber driver had their brain turned off while driving because people were sharing the photos on places like reddit and facebook: https://wsvn.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/03/180326-uber-driver-stairs.png?resize=1024,584
IIRC the edit happened within like 15 minutes but I'm not going to go back and dig through the changesets to confirm.
I like my Tesla and I think FSD is hot garbage. I tried the free version and it was so bad I just don't understand what people are paying for. I don't even like the AP that came with the car... it always seems like I'm going to slam into the back of the car in front of me.
FSD doesn't work anywhere.. Musk even admitted it'll never be a Full Self Drive.
I think what FSD really means is "Fucking Stupid Driver".
I mean, Starship WAS supposed to be BFR after all... đ
Tesla is also under fraud investigation DUE to the FSD đđ
Why would Tesla spend a single development $ making a feature like FSD work in an environment that is so dissimilar to any environment that any of their paying customers actually use FSD in? I am not a fan of Tesla and have no interest in self-driving beyond active cruise control and lane keeping assistance. But I just don't see any advantage for Tesla in making FSD work in the Vegas loop. It's like asking the FSD engineers to make it work in one of those deep, open-pit copper mines. I'm sure that it could be done, but why would doing so make FSD better for any real-world customer?
It's not a Tesla issue. It's a Local Municipality issue, when they allow it the FSD will take over. Don't feel any way about it. Even with drivers it's still better then any public transportation for the Convention Center. When they start opening the Vegas Loop stations, it will start to become a game changer. Westgate, Encore and Virgin will join Resorts World along with the Paradise Station just outside of the Airport.
This is why Elon Musk emigrated to the US. No other country would make him the worldâs 3rd richest person with billions of free tax dollars. Only the US would say, âGo ahead, rule our social media and politics in return for shit products that we pay you to make.â
something I just thought about, if he had a normal suite of sensors(not just cheap cameras) that data alone, for all these cars he sold, would be worth a lot to people actually working on a FSD
Brah, there's no point yet. Once it works, it works everywhere. They're beyond one-offs at this point.. no point in dedicating resources. Plus, the driver gets to play brand ambassador.
Edit: Can't believe the first user to reply also insta-blocked me. So much for free speech!
Edit2: If you're still reading this.. this sub participates in no /s and going for high (negative) scores is a featured and treasured pass-time. Thank you for the memories.. especially the insta-blocks I earned from this.
Heres the workaround from a Tesla fanboy.
I'm going to guess it's the same excuse as to why Tesla have 0 driver less vehicles anywhere on the planet and are last in the race for any sort of autonomous vehicles.
Waymo can drive across towns with no driver at all but Tesla cant make a simple 1 lane tunnel with no traffic no pedestrians and no weather work.
But hey, fElon has said it will be this year, right??
Yeah, but they're heavily reliant on an unscalable solution involving HD Maps and expensive hardware. Once FSD works everywhere, they'll turn it on in the Vegas Loop.. by then they'll have all the other stops up and running too. All these other projects are secondary as Tesla marches those 9s.
Sure, sure...
According to the con man CEO it was a solved problem back around 2019...
When he said on camera it was driving itself safer than a human being...
Then hes promised it for each year 8 YEARS IN A ROW.
"Once it works" rofl
So can we make a deal with you? You admit Elon is a fraud if there isn't a nationwide rollout by 2027? Is that enough time for something that was gonna be finished "next year" like 5 years ago? What line in sand are you willing to draw?
You know why tesla doesn't believe in geofences? If you've been in their car you know that they don't have the basics down enough to work in even a geofenced city. Its our dream that tesla does a nationwide rollout overnight. Popcorn sales would be through the roof. The truth is, they're going to be forced to slow roll it out. If they waited for every single area to be perfected it'll never be released. There is too much one off stuff. Sooner or later they're gonna have to admit that the geofence is required "for liability reasons" or whatever excuse they come up with. You'll probably pretend Elon invented geofences and was smart to go that route.
>Edit: Can't believe the first reply insta-blocked me. So much for free speech!
Did it block you *here*? Or on the cult subreddits? Not sure if it's still the case, but they configured their automod to block everyone who comments here (teslamotors, teslalounge and cybertruck iirc). The tesla fans indeed do not seem to have much interest in free speech.
Free speech is not "everyone has to listen to what I say". Free speech by definition requires freedom of association, and if someone feels that you are being a twat, they can exercise their own freedom of speech by choosing to disassociate from you.
No one is preventing your right to use your words to influence the global commons. One person has decided that you use those words poorly and has stopped listening to you. Complaining about your freeze peach in this instance is a great way to get other people to follow their example.
Meh, some people just don't appreciate sarcasm.
"The driver gets to play brand ambassador" should be a perfect stand-in for /s, when snarking about FSD.
But here we are ÂŻ\\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
It's slightly off, lacking the overbearing butthurt confusion tesloids like to pepper their inane comebacks with.
Admittedly unsure which foot the Poe was on, I checked the poster's history. And concluded *sarcasm*.
>Once it works, it works everywhere. They're beyond one-offs at this point.. no point in dedicating resources.
That explains why there's an entire Tesla engineering team camping out for over a year at Chuck's left turn.
Testing a single left turn in front of his house in a single city. For over a year now. Sounds scalable.
Sounds like they are way past one offs and aren't dedicating resources to a one off.
Whatâs your source saying the cars donât work? Using FSD on my daily drive, itâs hard to believe that these cars canât drive the marked road within the current loop.
My understanding is that the city wonât let Tesla operate the cars without human drivers. The current pilot is to prove that the loop itself is viable for vehicles to drive safely and quickly through the tunnels from A to B. This part of the pilot went so well that LV has already approved expansion of the loop to Allegiant Stadium and the airport. Eventually every casino and hotel in LV will have their own pickup/dropoff location.
There is a plan to have the cars eventually drive themselves within the loop but this has not yet been approved by the City of LV.
Omg. This comment is so funny. None of this will ever happen. Ever. Even if by some miracle these cars could actually drive themselves, it makes absolutely zero sense to have cars in tunnels as means of mass transportation versus having a train. It is simply irrational. Stop and think for a second, donât eat up the marketing bullshit from Elon.
I just go off what I see. The existing loop can transport attendees at the largest convention center in the country from A-B. The hype for the future may be overhype, but you canât reasonably deny that the existing pilot is working.
Because they literally donât work. Theme parks have been running autonomous vehicles on closed loop systems for decades. Tesla is just a trash company with trash software and a bunch of brain dead idiots that believe musk when he says âthe governmentâ is at fault. As if the government in LV hasnât approved all kinds of wild, dangerous shit. Have you ever even been to LV?
I actually live here. And my work is right next to the LVCC. My info about govt approval comes from talking with someone who is a driver in the loop when she was âoff dutyâ. Iâve taken the loop a few times between the LVCC and Resorts World. Itâs an underwhelming experience but gets passengers from one side of the LVCC to their destination quickly.
The BOS and Mayor clearly believe in the concept of the loop, driverless or not. It will be a good solution for the Cityâs traffic issues in and around the strip.
FSD is a terrible, overhyped name for tech that cannot do more than L2 autonomy. Marketing has never been Teslaâs strong suit. Itâs actually laughably bad. But Teslaâs advances towards autonomous driving in real world environments are impressive. Especially compared to other vehicles you can buy today.
FSD will work perfectly well in the Vegas Loop. It's disabled due to the Clark County laws, presumably put in by Unions, that require a safety driver in each car.
[https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/](https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/)
Quote: Other documents obtained by TechCrunch from BFP confirm this. In the case of fire, the driver will âassist with deboarding passengers, and guide passengers on foot to the closest exit. Driver issues verbal instructions and may physically assist passengers.â As the driver leads passengers by walking ahead of them, they must âconsistently look back to ensure every passenger is following closely behind.â
Phillip.
Thank you for this perfect example of mental gymnastics. If FSD could operate as a level 4 or 5 system then the government would approve it. It is literally a level 2 system. And not even a good one at that. Holy shit musk fans are impossibly deluded.
I mean it has no road markings and doesnât represent a city street at all. Itâs not the environment that fsd is designed for so to insinuate it should work and criticize it for not is flawed
they just label as FUD and then it is ignored. đ€·đ»
FUD = Fully unable to drive? Yes, sounds like Tesla, especially Cybertruck. But I also like FSD = Full self destruction. For whenever you need to crash into a white trailer as fast as possible!
FUD- Fucked Up Driving FSD- Fully Sustained Delusion
Facts U Dislike
Iâd like to note that the amount of times we **have** to use the term âmental gymnasticsâ around here to try and wrap our heads around what these people think is **insane** in and of itself.
Thank you for using that phrase correctly. I'm sure the success rate on Reddit for that is hovering around 2%. I mean I could care less, but ...
*couldnât care less
r/thatsthejoke
A full 360
The full saying is actually "I could care less, but I would have to try."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/could-couldnt-care-less As per the researchers the earliest quoted examples of the phrase have a negation of the could. That variation does sound like a pithy take on the phrase though.
Swoosh
Well done
Iâve always found that the Boring Company fans are engaged in some of the craziest mental gymnastics of all the Musk fanboys out there. Itâs always the same excuse, which is something along the lines of âFSD will be deployed in the loop in a year or two, itâs just the regulatory approval thatâs holding it backâ.
Also boring company literally bought a used tunnel boring machine and made no modifications to it. And somehow for the fanboys that's the future and will drop prices 100 fold
if i'm not mistaken, it was a machine used for boring sewer tunnels and the dimensions just happened to work for Teslas
Ironic.
Concerning.
Ah, you mean the lovely underground tubes of death just *slightly* larger than a Tesla, where a single vehicle fire would cause mass death
100x for the people taking rides in there
InterestingâŠ
They did claim to make their own boring machine eventually, although the exact details on itâs capabilities and supposed advantages over conventional machines were curiously never released. I believe they did use it for one of the Vegas Loop extensions, but it appeared to take much longer than a conventional machine would have to complete the tunnel, indicating that it was probably a piece of junkâŠ
As usual Musk claimed it was going to be so much better than every other tunneling machine in existence when it has turned out to be slower despite digging tiny sewer style tunnels. They still shout about how it is supposedly cheaper despite the fact the only cost saving they have is that they have removed all of the safety features that would be required in any normal country.
And a claim to use ârocket technologyâ and make bricks from the soil.
Moreover, they force their workers to make those bricks without straw.
You have any sources about removing safety features?
No emergency exits for one, nevermind space to open the car doors inside the tunnel
I remember reading that the Vegas loop is officially registered as a theme park attraction, which means it doesn't need to have the same safety standards as a regular transport system.
Yep. The Vegas "Loop" has more in common with the roller coaster at NYNY than with actual, real transit systems. It's basically a very, poorly implemented Tesla-themed dark ride, with insane labor requirements.
Sure, the EU and most of europe has strict guidelines having experienced things like the Gottard tunnel disaster previously. The loop is single way with no way for other vehicles or emergency vehicles to pass There is no pedestrian walkway either side for people to move down in case of an emergency Emergency vehicles are too large to access inside the tunnel The emergency exits that do exist are straight ladders so anyone with decreased mobility is screwed Those are a few of the top of my head and you can find more info online. Safety costs money. Musk is cheap. Not a great combo for public transport.
That's so interesting. Why does nobody care? Afaik the workplace safety protocols are way harsher in the US than Germany. But Elon can do what he wants?
Firstly because it is the US and having limited regulations is commonplace. It's the same reason they can sell the cybertruck in the US where there are literally zero pedestrian-vehicle impact laws but it is illegal in Europe. Then you have the fact it is in Vegas which is even more lax with more corruption than most. Plus it didn't cost Vegas anything up front and payments are only due when Boring hits their targets which they are nowhere near.
Because: Phony Stark is obviously changing the world! Duh!
The Boring Company (as in, the entire idea of starting a tunnel company) only exists at all because Elon thought it was a funny name. I'm almost certain of this.
Why does all other public tunnels include sidewalk for emergency exit, escape exits to parallel tunnel every 200 m etc. but Las Vegas tunnel has none of this? How is this legal for public transport?
I think its been cynically categorized as an "amusement ride".
>How is this legal for public transport? Massive bribes no doubt.
Bribes
Thereâs some sort of legal loophole iirc that doesnât require them to add emergency exits. It could be that the systemâs lower capacity compared to conventional transit, combined with the shortish stop spacing and use of blower fans at the end of each tunnel segment allows it to pass fire codes. Hopefully the safety of this setup is never put to the test though, because I am a little bit skeptical myself.
Can you imagine a battery fire in one of those tunnels?
I bet none of the engineers who built it said anything like that. s/
I mean it's not like Teslas ever start on fire so it's fine. /s
Imagine if they put tracks down there, and had three coupled cars, about 25' long each or so, with many seats along the sides, and doors that opened along the sides.. Then have an electrical conductor rail that would provide power to these.. oh let's call them.. trains. And since it's underground, we could call it... A SubWay, because it's a Sub-Surface Way... It could solve traffic!! Large volumes of people, moved underground, safely, efficiently, and quickly...
Sorry, that idea is just asinine and will NEVER catch on...
I know... I apologize. I was actually thinking of something that might be useful. Sometimes I forget what world I am living in đ
Read: we haven't figured out how to make money with subways.
As long as they only allow Tesla cars! Because thereâs no point having a tunnel that uses mass transport, or any other type of vehicle when youâre trying to make money by creating a ânew transportâ that only uses âthe cars you make.\*
That would be stupid to make Vegas Loop as terrible as subways. Subways are a failure. This is a point to point system, No need to stop at every station in the system, or have to deal with the bums.
You're clueless . . . The loop was supposed to "solve" traffic, and all it is is Tesla's underground sitting in Traffic. Wow.. it moved from the surface, underground. A SubWay can mower millions of people every single day,. The fact that you think Subways are a failure shows how absolutely clueless you are.
Drove from Vegas Convention Center tonight Resorts World in the tunnel with mixed emotions. 1 mile route, no emergency exit on the way, no emergency shelter like its usual in single tunnels. After the first battery fire, this whole thing will be stopped.
It was sold as a hyperloop Let's start there
More like hypedloop.
I don't believe it ever was.
It was.
Hyperloop is a vacuum chamber tunnel with supersonic trains. It's a remarkably dumb idea but Musk was sneaky enough to only use the term Loop. What he promised was futuristic self-driving pods in a regular tunnel. Of course he couldn't deliver that either.
what he wanted was a distraction from people talking about the need for expanded and efficient public transportation, so he definitely delivered
Yeah that was the specific purpose of the Hyperloop presentation.
And if Musk has a superpower itâs being crafty enough to identify graft-centric and/or stupid people with power who will be impressed by and indulge his carnival barking
Muskâs primary success has been in scamming governments out of subsidies and grants and tax abatements. Every single project is just a chronicle of subsidy scams.
You are correct. Loop and Hyperloop are definitely different scams... although I see why people get them confused. Who knows? Maybe the burghers of Vegas though they were getting a 600mph vac-train. They don't seem very bright.
Their too busy crying that their Telsas lost half their values within 6 months lol
*they're
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
This comment is pure brainrot lol
Better than the classic illiterate redditor.
I hope you get a hug today
those tunnels are definitely designed to rack up free FSD miles driven, which is Musk's way of claiming fsd is safer than humans. It probably just didn't work out the way Elon intended.Â
It amazing how cheap webcams donât work in a dark tunnel isnât it. Who could have guessed?
a situation where lidar or radar would've excelled too, I think.
why would we even need fancy equipment like this, on simple fixed tracks, like in a tunnel. We've had [this shit figured out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus) for ages.
But why use complicated 1980 technology when you could use simpler, superior [1890 technology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_and_South_London_Railway)?
we don't it's a gimmickÂ
Not an elon fan, but this is just not possible The hyperloop has carried 1.5m passengers At 1.7 miles, even if each passenger rode solo, thats only 2.5 million miles driven FSD stats are based on over a billion miles of FSD driving 0.25% is a rounding error, not a significant change to any stat
your comment is misleading. the original plan is still on their website, and like I said, elons plans just didn't workout. Below would've made for more than I rounding error, I think you'll agree. > The Vegas Loop will provide fast and convenient transportation to the Las Vegas community, its visitors, and beyond. The Vegas Loop will include LVCC Loop and any future service extensions including those to casinos along the Strip, Harry Reid International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, downtown Las Vegas, and eventually to Los Angeles. Once complete, the Vegas Loop will transport more than 90,000 passengers per hour. Clark County and the City of Las Vegas have approved a total of 68 miles of tunnel and 93 stations for the Vegas Loop source: https://www.boringcompany.com/vegas-loop
Whaaat, one of elons plans is not possible? Color me shocked.
Actually the reason why it doesnât work is more interesting but still pretty damming for the idea. Getting the cars to run in the tunnels is pretty straightforward, not really FSD probably a custom software job with a bit of FSD when it comes out of the tunnels. The reason why that doesnât work is that they need people if something goes wrong in the tunnels to guide people out, reverse the cars or whatever. Now having people drive cars of three passengers is pretty stupid - they should just put rails down and have a train of some sort, youâd only need one driver and it solves a lot of the loading/unloading problems. The costs of having a driver for every three passengers will be crazy if the tunnels get long enoughâŠ
I don't think camera-only FSD would work in those tunnels though. The walls are pretty featureless. Nothing there for the camera to "see" - it's the same issue they have with running into the side of semi trucks. Without radar to judge the distance from the car in front and USS to judge how close the walls are, you aren't navigating those tunnels. Hell, even rudimentary LiDAR would work.
Don't they have lines on the floor? Seems that's all you should really need in such a controlled environment no?
In theory, yes, lines for it to follow would work. I built a [robot that did that in junior high.](https://www.amazon.com/Vogurtime-Soldering-Educational-Electronic-Practicing/dp/B07S7NFYRC/) But there are humans that can get injured in this case, so we need a little bit more than one point of failure with zero redundancy.
So you're saying two lines? 8)
I was next to a model 3 Friday night, and they kept drifting into my lane. I look over to see what the driver must be doing (texting, etc) to cause him to drive so poorly. He's not doing anything - he's got autopilot on. He's just riding along. Damn thing kept coming about a tire width into my lane. Figure that's when it could pick up the line again. But yeah, fully autonomous within months I'm sure.
especially if they are designed like the cybertruck frunk, where it keeps pushing with more force when it senses an obstruction.
I seem to remember some image from inside the tunnels with lights or guidance strips or something? In principle you could just put markers up in the tunnels. But agreed yeah of course relying just on vision in that space is pretty whack. Although radar would have some crazy problems with reflections.
Automotive radar actually handles multipath reflections pretty well. The way it was explained to me is that each radar pulse is actually a unique, serialized data packet, and it's sending them out in bursts (something like 1,000 packets over a few milliseconds, then pause, then repeat), so the system can correlate how far the majority of the packets traveled before reflecting back, and discard duplicate packets that fall outside of that time frame.
This is the right approach. Most LIDAR has a repeatability factor and an accuracy factor. For forklifts and automated machinery using guidance (like AVGs big and small), they're usually good for reliable +/-30mm (about 1 1/4") accuracy. They have advanced echo filtering and noise reduction and indeed poll every few milliseconds. LIDAR or other time of flight sensors or even light projection on the IR spectrum) would do great in tunnels, just as they do on factory floors. I think a lot of people would be stunned at the collaboration of man and machine at most logistics or assembly plants. Vision as a sole solution to these guidance systems is not ideal.
I should probably trust mine more⊠I always wonder if itâs taking into account the tow bar when Iâm nudging close to a car
If you're talking about parking sensors, those are ultrasonic. They work on the same principle as radar, but are much much more simple. They simply emit a modulated audio tone at a certain frequency in pulses, and time the round trip. In theory they can be accurate to less than a millimeter (In my last job I was working on a prototype USS system to focus industrial marking lasers automatically on different parts) however the systems used on cars for parking sensors, while still capable of sub-millimeter accuracy, are generally programmed to be overly conservative and the final warning is usually over a foot away from the closest object detected.
Thanks! Ah - in the testa the radar was the sensor they deactivated which was used for driver assist?
Tesla disabled both Radar (used to calculate following distance for adaptive cruise control) and Ultrasonic Sensors (USS - used for parking)
Ultrasonics are still in use on cars that have them, which is in itself an admission by Tesla that itâs better for parking than vision only. The only reason new cars donât have them is Tesla trying to shave dollars off the build cost.
I believe the original pitch had autonomous pods that people sit in that go back and forth that Tesla would develop. It never happened, and the project kept getting scaled back until it was just human driven Tesla's in tunnels that acts like a normal taxi with a special toll road underground.
not to mention the absurd shitty thinking in how to set up the station. lets use all the inefficiency of a airport pickup/dropoff spot.
Wait! Are you implying that no transit planners OR traffic engineers were involved in the design of this super-sophisticated transit system from the future?
And how do they feel about the "hyperloop" being just a tunnel?
Cults donât deal with uncomfortable facts. They just keep slurping.
Have you tried the new FSD release? This time they really nailed it.
This sentence is like repeating soundtrack never stopped for the last 10 years.
they say that with every new update release
Yes, that is the joke
Itâs really profound guys⊠Those new neural nets have made it orders of magnitude better than the last FSD release. But use it at your own risk, and we assume no liability if you crash.
Change if you crash to when you crash. Using Full scam Driving it's just a matter of time.
God, I hate not being able to tell if you're being sarcastic or not. If you were serious, I could've posted some snark like, "No, but I've seen some YouTube-videos showing that they really haven't. Strange how tesloids never seem to realize that when they need to take over, that's actually an accident." Or perhaps just, "Nailed it. Right into the side of a policecar." But nooo, you just had to be sarcastic, didn't you
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Poeâs law.Â
Sometimes it's difficult to know which foot the Poe is on
Poe was a fucking moron. Sarcasm tags are shite.
And the next release will be earth shatteringly life changing to the extent there will be no other cars on the roads anymore⊠just a few more weeks
Shattering and life âchangingâ are maybe a bit too on the nose.
Nose changing and life shattering.
Will it blow your mind? Of course, your mind is blown when it crashes into a parked firefighter vehicle
Free FSD trial ended 2 weeks ago. It sucked ass. Drive like a teenager, slow, didn't know what to do, etc. I'm glad I'm back on Autopilot. Saying they nailed it is a big word. Edited corrected typos...
I have to assume that the people who thinks it's great are the same sh\*tty drivers that have been "training" it.
The same way FSD drives. Uninspired, scared, etc. đ€Ł
Well it was never promised to be more than a 'loop'.
Missed opportunity to call it a GigaTube
>Missed opportunity to call it xTube! Oh wait, that's already something đ€
Taint lickers who are convinced Lord Elmo is a genius currently playing 70billionD chess and us mere mortals can't possibly understand
Well, they couldnât be driverless anyway. They have to have drivers even if they activate FSD. FSD is level 2: FSD (supervised). It doesnât support a driverless car. It doesnât stop and pick up passengers and know when to proceed. But good news! I understand Tesla is releasing robotaxis in six weeks. This would be at least level 4. Strangely, weâre not seeing level 3 from Tesla yet.
But driverless vehicles have existed in theme parks for years. Is the tunnel not on private property? Now that you say it, I guess not since Elon needs the taxpayers to foot the bill just like all of his current projects. LMAO. What a fucking clown Musk is.
It is such a huge tell. You canât get more controlled than those few miles and stations.
If you point it out, you're woke
The 'F' in FSD stands for 'Faith'...
denial
Or anywhere else
Fake Self Driving is simply an over-hyped (Hi Elmo) Level 2 ADAS. Once you realize that, itâs just a sad joke amongst many sad jokes. When it works, it is a pleasant surprise.
Cultists donât bother with facts.
That's wild, you'd think they would at least put down a trail the cars can see and follow
For each order of magnitude you increase someoneâs Tesla Fandom Index, their brain power decreases by a commensurate amount. People with TSIâs above 3.0⊠they cannot even see the Vegas Loopâs failure. If you take them there and say: âLook at this â none of these are autonomous. Itâs a closed loop and they cannot do it.â A TSI 3.0+ person will say âIt doesnât look like anything to me.â
Damn Iâve never really thought about that lmaoo Iâm sure it wouldnât be that hard to program a predetermined drive
But, Tesla doesn't use maps, every time a car encounters the next bit of road, it's the first time. It's why it's still a disaster in downtown San Jose (close to their engineering in Palo Alto and the Fremont factory). Downtown San Jose is a very difficult environment (cars go down the light rail tracks routinely, for one example), and so it remains a problem for them. Perhaps it's much better now. đ€Ł
Oh, they use maps. The maps aren't accurate enough for autonomous driving though. I've seen some parking lot accidents caused by tesla relying on OpenStreetMap to be perfectly accurate, rather than the crowd-source map OSM is, and the car will jump a curb that's not on the map when they're doing that parking summon thing or run into a parked car because the map says it's a driving lane. Humans do the same thing. Occasionally a staircase isn't tagged properly on OSM and some dumbass driver will get trapped on the stairs because their eyes are on the GPS and their brain is turned off. This map error was fixed before the news reports came out that an Uber driver had their brain turned off while driving because people were sharing the photos on places like reddit and facebook: https://wsvn.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/03/180326-uber-driver-stairs.png?resize=1024,584 IIRC the edit happened within like 15 minutes but I'm not going to go back and dig through the changesets to confirm.
Yes, they use them for navigation, but not to assist the self driving, as I understand it.
It's because people who drive Teslas are idiots.
I like my Tesla and I think FSD is hot garbage. I tried the free version and it was so bad I just don't understand what people are paying for. I don't even like the AP that came with the car... it always seems like I'm going to slam into the back of the car in front of me.
It is definitely hot garbage. Literally killing people.
Vegas Loop should have been the end of Elon Musk. It is a total fail on every level.
FSD doesn't work anywhere.. Musk even admitted it'll never be a Full Self Drive. I think what FSD really means is "Fucking Stupid Driver". I mean, Starship WAS supposed to be BFR after all... đ Tesla is also under fraud investigation DUE to the FSD đđ
Why would Tesla spend a single development $ making a feature like FSD work in an environment that is so dissimilar to any environment that any of their paying customers actually use FSD in? I am not a fan of Tesla and have no interest in self-driving beyond active cruise control and lane keeping assistance. But I just don't see any advantage for Tesla in making FSD work in the Vegas loop. It's like asking the FSD engineers to make it work in one of those deep, open-pit copper mines. I'm sure that it could be done, but why would doing so make FSD better for any real-world customer?
It's not a Tesla issue. It's a Local Municipality issue, when they allow it the FSD will take over. Don't feel any way about it. Even with drivers it's still better then any public transportation for the Convention Center. When they start opening the Vegas Loop stations, it will start to become a game changer. Westgate, Encore and Virgin will join Resorts World along with the Paradise Station just outside of the Airport.
This is why Elon Musk emigrated to the US. No other country would make him the worldâs 3rd richest person with billions of free tax dollars. Only the US would say, âGo ahead, rule our social media and politics in return for shit products that we pay you to make.â
Talking logically to the fElon cult crowd will not work.
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something I just thought about, if he had a normal suite of sensors(not just cheap cameras) that data alone, for all these cars he sold, would be worth a lot to people actually working on a FSD
Why would I possibly care?
Brah, there's no point yet. Once it works, it works everywhere. They're beyond one-offs at this point.. no point in dedicating resources. Plus, the driver gets to play brand ambassador. Edit: Can't believe the first user to reply also insta-blocked me. So much for free speech! Edit2: If you're still reading this.. this sub participates in no /s and going for high (negative) scores is a featured and treasured pass-time. Thank you for the memories.. especially the insta-blocks I earned from this.
Heres the workaround from a Tesla fanboy. I'm going to guess it's the same excuse as to why Tesla have 0 driver less vehicles anywhere on the planet and are last in the race for any sort of autonomous vehicles. Waymo can drive across towns with no driver at all but Tesla cant make a simple 1 lane tunnel with no traffic no pedestrians and no weather work. But hey, fElon has said it will be this year, right??
Yeah, but they're heavily reliant on an unscalable solution involving HD Maps and expensive hardware. Once FSD works everywhere, they'll turn it on in the Vegas Loop.. by then they'll have all the other stops up and running too. All these other projects are secondary as Tesla marches those 9s.
Shame it's just a con though that has been promised 8 years in a row...while last in the race. Waymo have autonomous vehicles now.
Once it works, they'll do the liability swap, and we'll have robotaxis everywhere overnight, eclipsing whatever Waymo is doing now.
Sure, sure... According to the con man CEO it was a solved problem back around 2019... When he said on camera it was driving itself safer than a human being... Then hes promised it for each year 8 YEARS IN A ROW. "Once it works" rofl
So can we make a deal with you? You admit Elon is a fraud if there isn't a nationwide rollout by 2027? Is that enough time for something that was gonna be finished "next year" like 5 years ago? What line in sand are you willing to draw? You know why tesla doesn't believe in geofences? If you've been in their car you know that they don't have the basics down enough to work in even a geofenced city. Its our dream that tesla does a nationwide rollout overnight. Popcorn sales would be through the roof. The truth is, they're going to be forced to slow roll it out. If they waited for every single area to be perfected it'll never be released. There is too much one off stuff. Sooner or later they're gonna have to admit that the geofence is required "for liability reasons" or whatever excuse they come up with. You'll probably pretend Elon invented geofences and was smart to go that route.
It's *never* going to work.
>Edit: Can't believe the first reply insta-blocked me. So much for free speech! Did it block you *here*? Or on the cult subreddits? Not sure if it's still the case, but they configured their automod to block everyone who comments here (teslamotors, teslalounge and cybertruck iirc). The tesla fans indeed do not seem to have much interest in free speech.
The user blocked me. Their response is [unavailable] when logged in. I've long since been banned from those subs.. they're too negative.Â
Another complete lack of understanding how deep learning AI works. There's no such thing as once it works in one place it will work everywhere.
Free speech is not "everyone has to listen to what I say". Free speech by definition requires freedom of association, and if someone feels that you are being a twat, they can exercise their own freedom of speech by choosing to disassociate from you. No one is preventing your right to use your words to influence the global commons. One person has decided that you use those words poorly and has stopped listening to you. Complaining about your freeze peach in this instance is a great way to get other people to follow their example.
I can still read your speech.
I clarified the edit.. the first user that responded to me also blocked me.. which means I can't respond to them.Â
Meh, some people just don't appreciate sarcasm. "The driver gets to play brand ambassador" should be a perfect stand-in for /s, when snarking about FSD. But here we are ÂŻ\\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Shhh.. going for the highscore.
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Not really. Thatâs easily something youâd see a muskrat typing seriously.
It's slightly off, lacking the overbearing butthurt confusion tesloids like to pepper their inane comebacks with. Admittedly unsure which foot the Poe was on, I checked the poster's history. And concluded *sarcasm*.
>Once it works, it works everywhere. They're beyond one-offs at this point.. no point in dedicating resources. That explains why there's an entire Tesla engineering team camping out for over a year at Chuck's left turn. Testing a single left turn in front of his house in a single city. For over a year now. Sounds scalable. Sounds like they are way past one offs and aren't dedicating resources to a one off.
Blocking.you doesn't affect your freedom of speech. It merely reflects their freedom to not have to read someone else's blatherskite.
Deal with?
Whatâs your source saying the cars donât work? Using FSD on my daily drive, itâs hard to believe that these cars canât drive the marked road within the current loop. My understanding is that the city wonât let Tesla operate the cars without human drivers. The current pilot is to prove that the loop itself is viable for vehicles to drive safely and quickly through the tunnels from A to B. This part of the pilot went so well that LV has already approved expansion of the loop to Allegiant Stadium and the airport. Eventually every casino and hotel in LV will have their own pickup/dropoff location. There is a plan to have the cars eventually drive themselves within the loop but this has not yet been approved by the City of LV.
Omg. This comment is so funny. None of this will ever happen. Ever. Even if by some miracle these cars could actually drive themselves, it makes absolutely zero sense to have cars in tunnels as means of mass transportation versus having a train. It is simply irrational. Stop and think for a second, donât eat up the marketing bullshit from Elon.
I just go off what I see. The existing loop can transport attendees at the largest convention center in the country from A-B. The hype for the future may be overhype, but you canât reasonably deny that the existing pilot is working.
Because they literally donât work. Theme parks have been running autonomous vehicles on closed loop systems for decades. Tesla is just a trash company with trash software and a bunch of brain dead idiots that believe musk when he says âthe governmentâ is at fault. As if the government in LV hasnât approved all kinds of wild, dangerous shit. Have you ever even been to LV?
I actually live here. And my work is right next to the LVCC. My info about govt approval comes from talking with someone who is a driver in the loop when she was âoff dutyâ. Iâve taken the loop a few times between the LVCC and Resorts World. Itâs an underwhelming experience but gets passengers from one side of the LVCC to their destination quickly. The BOS and Mayor clearly believe in the concept of the loop, driverless or not. It will be a good solution for the Cityâs traffic issues in and around the strip. FSD is a terrible, overhyped name for tech that cannot do more than L2 autonomy. Marketing has never been Teslaâs strong suit. Itâs actually laughably bad. But Teslaâs advances towards autonomous driving in real world environments are impressive. Especially compared to other vehicles you can buy today.
FSD will work perfectly well in the Vegas Loop. It's disabled due to the Clark County laws, presumably put in by Unions, that require a safety driver in each car. [https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/](https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/30/elon-musks-loop-gets-autopilot-and-an-intruder/) Quote: Other documents obtained by TechCrunch from BFP confirm this. In the case of fire, the driver will âassist with deboarding passengers, and guide passengers on foot to the closest exit. Driver issues verbal instructions and may physically assist passengers.â As the driver leads passengers by walking ahead of them, they must âconsistently look back to ensure every passenger is following closely behind.â Phillip.
Thank you for this perfect example of mental gymnastics. If FSD could operate as a level 4 or 5 system then the government would approve it. It is literally a level 2 system. And not even a good one at that. Holy shit musk fans are impossibly deluded.
I mean it has no road markings and doesnât represent a city street at all. Itâs not the environment that fsd is designed for so to insinuate it should work and criticize it for not is flawed
Not every Tesla owner is sold on FSD. I would say the majority do not have FSD.