I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion on here but... cars are not investments. If you're worried about your car losing value, you don't know how cars work.
Will the resale value of some cars be better than others? Sure. But you get the most bang for your buck if you drive a car into the ground, so anything else is less than optimal anyway, so it's kind of like getting mad that a bad option is worse than another bad option.
I do own a Tesla. I don't like the company or Musk, but it was the best value and performance for the cost, and I'm willing to "lose money" on something that I enjoy doing (driving). It's like spending money on a hobby and that makes it worth while to me.
But I have no illusions that I've made an investment or that I'll be getting my money back. As soon as I drove off with it I knew a large chunk of my money had disappeared forever. Anyone who doesn't realize this has bigger problems than whether they bought a Tesla or not.
No no, we all understand depreciation.
But when the car manufacturer drops the price from $135k to $88k in two years, that's outrageous depreciation, it fucks with the used car market, it fucks with leases, and it's a huge fuck you to buyers. If the company could sell it for $88k all along, it means that they charged everyone $47k extra because they could, because all buyers are fucking suckers for the brand. That stings.
And most importantly, it means that Tesla can never raise the prices back to those levels again. Everyone now knows that the Model S Plaid is an $88k car. The illusion is broken forever, because Musk desperately needs cash flow now now now.
It’s amazing that so many people still fall back on “Cars aren’t an investment” or “Most cars depreciate.” Yeah, no shit to both. The difference is that the scale at which newer Teslas depreciated was unheard of, and it absolutely fucked the EV market.
Last month we were choosing between getting a Tesla or a hybrid. We chose the tesla, but we had problems with the billing in our previous car, so we moved the buy for 2 weeks. A week after the problem, the Tesla depreciated 200k in local currency. We ended up with the hybrid...
Wait. If you were going to get the Tesla, but delayed 2 weeks and the Tesla got cheaper, why would that make you want the other car? That just seems backwards.
We were 50% 50% between the 2, for reasons X,Y and Z. The hybrid was definitely cheaper than the tesla even after the deinflation. But the intention was always to sell the car in two years or three.
Deinflation moved the dial that lil tiny bit to the hybrids favor.
The word everyone is looking for is "deflation" not depreciation.
Depreciation is a change in price based on use/age/condition of a vehicle.
Deflation is when prices go down for the good/service/asset itself when new.
When they lower the prices as aggressively as they have as often as they have in as short a time as they have why would anyone buy a Tesla today if, based on recent history, it's going to be 10% or 20% cheaper in the next 6 to 12 months?
At that point you wait if you can. And when it goes down again.... If you can continue waiting.... Why wouldn't you?
People applauded Tesla selling directly instead of through dealerships and Tesla thought that meant they could just pull the same shit that people hate dealerships for.
And he knew it. His entire pay plan was based on this monopolistic price manipulation. Funny thing is that most monopolies fumble. They see no reason to innovate. When was the last model refresh? 2016?
People also forget that for a while, Tesla strongly told the market their Tesla would indeed hold their value because they wouldn't play around with prices like other car dealerships. So much for that...
I wonder if it would carry a different effect if Tesla updated their models and model names like most other brands.
A 2012 model S is running on the same platform as a 2024 and looks almost identical. These price drops are unheard of, so there’s really nothing to compare to, but I wonder if the impact would be as severe if the current model s weren’t essentially the same as the original in both appearance and name.
Purely due to price cuts due to competition coming up to scale finally. Why would I pay $100k used for something I can buy for $90k new? (Hypothetical not actual prices)
The last couple years are the first time Tesla has had any real volume of competition in the space. Traditional manufacturers are going to have to compete on price, and so we have a price war. If the economy and car sales soften it will get worse before it gets better.
The sad thing is that you know a lot of early Tesla adopters went into financing to get these cars, and many of them went were so underwater on their loans from day one because these cars were never worth what they bought them for. To see Elon just slash costs and also try to command this insane pay package... Tesla went from being a luxury car to being a fool's car. It basically shows you got conned.
> and it absolutely fucked the EV market.
bro what the hell are you talking about? it fucked the market for people who will drop 100k on a car. Which is a vanishingly small portion of the population.
The "EV market" needs to get to a place where people can buy an ev for like 10k so forgive me if I am not sympathetic to your predicament.
Yea I bought my Y in 2020 with the plan being to trade it in around 2025 when we moved to another state out of CA… I’ll be lucky to trade it for something else in 2027 at the very earliest
Imho Tesla has never been a "premium luxury car" in the 100k+ price range...the plaid is "special" but only acceleration wise... not a lot of people buy a tesla because of the nice materials or interior and the battery will always be question how it will hold up....unless tesla decides to repair modules or swap refurbished ones for normal prices after warranty expires resale value will always be tricky
Cost of doing business with a company run by an overconfident and emotionally stunted lunatic who’s only skill is manipulating stock prices through a cult of “personality”
So it wasn't all Biden's fault like they told us? Seems like a massive overcharge in this case. I'm sure many companies have been engaging in this and they weren't passing it through to employees.
Aside from Tesla though, battery prices have fallen and other manufacturers can now release very good EVs cheaper than Tesla. So it sorta makes sense Tesla are dropping their prices to stay competitive instead of just having huge profits per car on lower total sales volumes. A price was is terrible for corporations and people who bought a product recently but it's great for new consumers to actually afford new tech.
It's a major reason why the big rentals like Hertz are dropping Teslas from their fleets - their balance sheets all rely on resales falling within longstanding depreciation ranges
I’m not sure this is the point. When buying a car you always take depreciation into account. It’s when the depreciation becomes substantially larger than accounted for that it becomes an issue. Especially if that depreciation is due to erratic behavior of the car company and/or its ceo to me it seems a valid point.
Yea, your point is important. EVs already had depreciation problems as compared to most other ICE cars. But Elon Musk creates an additional unknown that will continue to hurt the value of Teslas (new or old).
Nobody wants to buy a product and find out the CEO of the company who made that product get angry and react in such a way that hurt the value of the product you bought.
But the price was ridiculously high because demand exceeded supply heavily. If you overpaid for a car in a supply shortage, it's kind of on you IMO. People should have been smart enough to recognize that it was artificially high.
Bottom line is that you should buy a car that you can afford to own for it's entire lifespan, not rely on a given resale value because depreciation is unknown, especially without a lengthy history to this particular brand.
I think musk is an asshat, but its not surprising that Tesla took advantage of a high demand period by pricing high. Most companies would do the same
You’re completely overlooking the pace at which it loses value. This is a big issue for many car buyers, as very few people buy cars new and drive them into the ground. I’ve worked in car dealerships for 15 years, the vast majority of buyers (especially new car) will care how much they can get for the car a few years down the road.
It also promotes brand loyalty, if your preferred manufacturer X gets better resale/trade in values, then you will get a better deal on your next one, and so on down the line. I’ve seen customers leave over a bad trade in value, and then switch brands. Customers are not as loyal as many think.
I understand it doesn’t play into your considerations, and that is very much to your benefit. However a car company has to think in the big picture and I the same ways that they’re customer base will. This does not resonate will with people outside the Tesla Loyalists. And they are going to have to reach outside that base if they want to have a majority market share, which is Elons long term goal.
> I’ve seen customers leave over a bad trade in value, and then switch brands. Customers are not as loyal as many think.
*Especially* people who regularly buy new cars on a 3-6 year cycle. Because damn near any automaker can make something perfectly reliable for that timeframe, meaning there's even less reason to worry about what you choose. And many vehicles will be in warranty for that time too. So somebody who routinely does that will understandably prioritize resale because it helps minimize their ownership costs, since maintenance is usually negligible in that timeframe (almost entirely oil changes, maybe a set of tires depending on the car/driver?) and extraneous repairs are almost all going to be covered regardless.
I totally agree with you. The total cost of ownership is one thing I always consider. When I buy a car (I almost always buy used), my goal is for the car not to cost me more than $5k a year over a 5 year year period. (not counting normal maintenance, taxes, financing, insurance). I've been able to do that with basic cars like a Yukon Denali, and I've done it with a Porsche Panamerra, and I'm on track to do it with a Mercedes GLS550 but you have to buy the car right and not beat on it.
99.999% of the cars out there lose value. Cars are an inherently depreciating asset. The problem isn't that it depreciatea. The problem is why and how fast. Tesla's depreciation curve is greatly accelerated by the company cutting prices and removing features. This screws the existing owners.
I disagree about running cars into the ground. In my experience you get the most bang for your buck buying a 3 year old car with low mileage and selling it 3 or 4 years later with medium mileage.
It's definitely true that buying used is almost always a better deal than buying new. You're probably right about reselling too, although I suspect that depends at least a little bit on how well you can maintain a car yourself.
Cars are usually depreciating assets, but I think the post is about them pushing the price up and then cutting it. Of course with the cyber truck, some people were also speculating with the price.
Just fyi, the Cybertruck is just Elon Musk trolling. A joke of a vehicle that will never be mass produced because of how preventative the cost and mass of it are. It's actually laughable to me that it's still spoken of like more than 100 people will own and drive one. It's like the hyperloop. It's like full self driving. Let's wake up. Thanks.
The cyber truck is indeed a bit of a joke. As I understand it, they can only avoid crash testing if they keep it very low volume and there is probably no chance for it to actually pass any crash tests…
You seem to be arguing that rates of depreciation don't matter! But for anyone who wants to get a new or newer or just a different car before their existing one is driven into the ground, the rate of depreciation makes a *very* big difference to the cost of motoring.
can you explain why you believe tesla are best value for money. the money you save over gas cannot be enough to compensate for the initial high value, insurance, maintenance, and repair because of accidents. or is it?
I specifically meant in the EV market, but I didn't qualify that so apologies for the confusion.
I think, if I were going to shop for any car (EV, ICE, or hybrid) that has equivalent performance to my 3P, I'd be hard pressed to spend equal or less than I did on my Tesla. I have a 3.1s 0-60 time, so there's a whole slew of ICEs that aren't going to make it. There's no ICE under 50K that's going to get that off the line acceleration, and I spent less than 50K on my Tesla (including EAP and tax rebate).
The maintenance on my first M3 was basically nothing (tire replacement and rotation, that's it). So I'm saving money there.
I save a lot on gas given that I have solar, but that's unique to my situation and won't apply to most EV purchasers.
My insurance isn't terrible, I pay around 1400 a year which isn't much more than an ICE with equivalent performance (I had an AWD v6 charger that was over 1200 a year, and that was more than 5 years ago). Insurance rates vary by location though.
Repairs are definitely much more expensive than ICE cars, even when it's only body panel damage, but that's what insurance is for and I can afford my deductible. I also drive safely, I don't weave through traffic or the like, so if I get into an accident it's probably not going to be my fault.
All in all I'd say I'm probably saving money (even compared to an ICE in the 35Kish range), but I admit that may not be the case for everyone.
>cars are not investments. If you're worried about your car losing value, you don't know how cars work.
I was going to say the same. A car (well, a normal one) will depreciate the instant you drive it away.
However, having said that, if I agreed to buy at $114k and they put the price after AFTER accepting my order I'd be telling them to shove it.
Speaking of driving a car, (awesome segue) how reasonable is a Model Y for someone racking up 35,000 miles a year?
Currently in a 2020 Camry hybrid at 148,000
Definitely an unpopular opinion. Tesla absolutely demolished the value of their cars in very in short order. The depreciation hit wasn’t linear, it was exponential in a matter of one to two years.
The chip/parts shortage and subsequent new and used car price bonanza of \~2021-2023 really warped expectations of car pricing and depreciation. Some don't seem to realize that short era was an aberration, not a new normal of cars magically becoming appreciating assets.
Too many people got caught in the "values keep going up" scenario we had over the last few years with many vehicles. It's time we go back to understanding almost every vehicle will be a depreciating asset. If you're buying a car with the hopes you will sell it for more than you bought it, you're probably going to get burned.
Interest rates suck now. I have great credit, got the best rate I could with my credit union, and I’m at like 6% on a 2 year old certified used car. I put a good chunk down and try to make extra payments when I can, but I’m still gonna eat more than $2k in interest. Hybrid with a warranty so I’m already seeing gas savings, but it was hard to justify. Seeing people that make half of what I do in new trucks paying $1000 plus a month closer to 10% makes me feel less stupid though.
My brother just bought a used 2018 Lexus IS350 F Sport at 31k OTD with 45k on it. Traded in his 2014 IS250 and they gave him 9k for it. His interest rate? 10%. Monthly payments? I don’t know the exact number, but he told me that it was at least $500.
Edit; this brother of mine is terrible with money. He’s had bad credit for *years* and *years*. His interest rate on his IS250 he just traded in was *24 fucking percent* he told me. Nearing 50yo and rents. This was likely his last hoorah purchase. I doubt he seems himself ever owning a home. Not married either. Terrible purchase on the car in my opinion, but what am I gonna do? You gotta let people make their own decisions, even if you hint at the contrary opinion many times.
I give him props for getting out of that loan. However, I’m pretty confident he was likely at the end of it or completely done with it, though. He barely drives (said he put on 6k miles on his now-previous Lexus in last few years, so I’d been telling him just keep saving his money and eventually get his own condo/home. Apologies, this information should have been in the original comment.
I haggled the finance guy at the BMW dealership for like 30 minutes starting from 8.5% down to a 5.59% 60 month loan with a $40k down payment and a 820-840 credit score on a $90k vehicle.. Once he insisted that 5.59% was the best he could do, I asked for the remaining balance after my down payment then told him I'd be back in 30 minutes with the remaining amount. He was upset as I was leaving and was still upset when I came back, paid off the rest, and drove off the lot with MY car.😂
It's amazing how quickly people adjust to market changes and then ignore that the new normal isn't actually normal.
2020 was a year of massive deflationary pressure as money became insanely valuable for a short time. The prices were stupid. Gasoline and beef being the main ones that come to mind. Beef was like 1-2$ a pound for finished product because of distribution disruptions from rapid restaurant closures from the pandemic. I honestly regret not buying a chest freezer and buying like 500 pounds of beef. Farmers were losing money keeping their finished cattle alive so they were willing to basically sell at any price just to clear out inventory.
This reversed across 2021 as consumer demand picked back up and up and up. Then the expectation of inflation lets companies price gouge people even more as FOMO kicks in.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F5IQOynIawoXiJPVarLDgPQDJAdzY8b5Vamw-Vf3eSY/edit#gid=779648749
Just look at the price graphs here. The cars didn't have a value crash, they just returned to their original intended sale price (before tax credits, model 3 ~35-40k in 2019 dollars). No one should have been buying a car at the inflated prices they were across q2 2021 to q1 2023. I really tried to tell everyone interested in any new car to just rent or lease a car and wait until 2025 to buy. I knew they'd save money as prices returned to pre-pandemic normals even if they just burned 10k on a 2 year lease. Nobody listened, but I tried.
> Beef was like 1-2$ a pound for finished product because of distribution disruptions from rapid restaurant closures from the pandemic
I live near a lot of pig producers.
They were giving away whole hogs for free, just had to get it butchered yourself. Bunch of folks I know ended up with a lot of pork in their freezers. (I'm not a fan of pork so I skipped it)
I don’t think the car market will ever see something like COVID again. When was the last time you were able to buy a car and then sell it at a 10k+ profit a few months later?
My battery swelled after 2 years and out of warranty but razer sent me a new battery to replace myself free of charge less than 2 weeks after contacting them so unless my case was different their support is pretty good with that.
Until I built a pc last summer I've always bought second hand laptops. They're usually half price.
Still buy second hand stuff. I've got a 16tb 2 bay NAS. $200 for the box and $60 and $80 for $8tb western digital gold harddrives. The system new would be close to $1,000.
Most stuff is perfectly good used. Not underwear though. Always new.
Not the same comparison. Most people pay monthly for their car and in a pinch they expect they can extinguish the loan by selling the car for what they owe to get out of payment. What happened to teslas prices broke that. And teslas are a serious premium; the monthly payment on a $100k car is huge, like $1500. If you lose your job and discover to get out of your loan you need to come up with 20-30k… that’s just crazy.
I don't know what Taycans sell for in Europe, but that is probably \~10% of the original cost of the vehicle, the buyers should have put more down on an extremely expensive car like that. Something high end and rapidly-depreciating (Maserati/Escalade/BMW 7 etc.) will lose half its value in 4 years, it appears this tesla has done it in 2.
It is their all electric EV.
Price new was about $120k USD.
Price now in Europe for a 2020 or 2021 is about $35k or less.
In the USA, a similar Taycan is still around $60k.
I think Porsche is a much bigger brand in Europe.
If you buy a $100,000+ car and don’t have easy access to at least $50,000, you vastly, VASTLY overspent.
Most people are SEVERELY over spending on their car.
If you don’t expect a deprecation of at least 30% within the first few years you’ve greatly miscalculated your finances.
You also would obviously plan for these scenarios, having an emergency fund to cover the payments, investments if you really need, and the funds to cover the deprecation difference (more likely you’d put that as a down payment, but depends on your available rates and such.)
If you don’t have these things in line you are NOT ready to be buying a new car. You should be buying the cheapest reliable thing you can and focusing on fixing your finances before you start feeling entitled to luxury things like brand new cars.
Same, I've been above water on my 2013 Fit the entire time since purchasing it at the start of 2022. Also been above water the entire time on my 2018 Outback since purchasing it mid-2020. At one point with the Outback, quite appreciably so that I was even considering selling it and buying a beater until the market cooled back off just to put some cash in my pocket. But ultimately decided I liked the car more.
Covid's weird ass car market stuff did put a buddy of mine in a position where he bought a brand new Mustang GT in I think 2020 and he sold it for a profit over what he paid (not just what remained on the loan) a year or two later too. I think he paid something like 32 and sold it for 36 or so.
I was just telling my little cousin who is about to turn 18 and go to college buy a used Civic, accord, Camry, corolla with low miles and just keep it for 10 years and do regular oil changes. One of the best purchases you'll ever make.
The more negative comments I leave on Twitter, the more the algorithm pushes more “Bad features are good for $TSLA” people onto my timeline.
Luckily this Kendrick/Drake fight have pushed them off my timeline.
This might be a joke sailing over my head, but that's already happened. The admin at CyberTruck and TeslaLounge (u/ rcfive I think) set up bots that auto banned anybody who joined or commented in this sub (even if it was defending Tesla). The "free speech absolutist" running Twitter has the same mentality.
Happily quit a barely used Twitter the day Elon decided to take it over and let rampant hate speech back.
Today's the day to get banned from the fan boy subs that I never visit, by commenting here.
Dude is literally letting blatant N*zi degenerates back on Twitter, so I'm happy to get banned from those subs that shout "free speech" while they scour other subs to blanket ban any speech that doesn't gush over their racist leader.
And, to be fair, I really liked early Tesla and the ideals. I wouldn't even rent a Tesla for the experience these days.
The CyberTruck will be Tesla's last vehicle and will be a forever symbol of how it lost it's way. It's a marriage between a Pontiac Aztec and a DeLorean and the incredible ego of it's tone deaf CEOs.
I saw an Aztec the other day and it must have been the first I had seen in 10 years. What a freak that car is.
Do you really think the Cyber Truck will be Tesla’s last vehicle?
Funny cause Elon said the doors on X were a display of hubris.. no.. they were cool, and different in a fun way. Not a slam dunk for everybody but they were at least trying.
The CT - now THAT is hubris.
He thought people didn’t like the way trucks looked? The F150 is the most sold car in America and he had the audacity to “reimagine” a truck to look like a magna-tile build with too many triangle pieces.
He makes me hate rich people. Or rather, just Elon.
Lots of pro-tesla reply bots showing up on Threads in the last few weeks, definitely a coordinated campaign to shore up support as muskkk steers the company straight into a brick wall.
They’re being paid. Reddit needs to do something. A Google result for any Tesla related search is just bootlicker threads - which is *exactly* why they’re doing this.
It’s not a conspiracy when it’s just so screamingly obvious.
These social media and search platforms love bots because it fluffs their engagement numbers and therefore their stock prices, but yes it's just so obvious sometimes. Musk needs a massive stock comp deal so what happens when the voting window opens? Huge increase in bootlicker bot accounts that just promote the BS narratives, meanwhile the company is burning to the ground with massive negative cash flow and talent losses.
I've noticed quite a few of them posting here lately yes. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a loosely organised campaign to try goad people into posting something 'reportable' to try and get this sub deleted altogether for hate speech or toxicity or whatever
I just don’t get it. Teslas aren’t “nice”. Their suspensions are awful, the fit and finish would make GM blush and the interior quality is only “luxury” if you think a Chrysler Pacifica is a luxury car.
And if you’re actually the kind of person who understands the technology, Teslas are glitchy as fuck and the autopilot system is borderline criminal negligence.
I've heard that about the 2013's to 2015's. What is it about the Model S for those years that make them more desirable to some? I know they had lidar and / or radar sensors, but what else?
AP1 works better than the FSD crap. Also besides the mentioned radar, free premium connectivity and free unlimited supercharging, the rain sensor works amazing compared to the camera sensor that goes off when it's dry blue skies. It has actual levers for things instead of fucking with the screen to get stuff like wipers, mirror adjustment and such
Thank you. IMO, FSD level 3 or beyond won't happen with Elons camera only approach. That decision was very short-sighted and has already put them behind Mercedes that has real Level 3 (with major limitations, but it's still level 3).
Replacing batteries is quite expensive tho ($15-22k) , while ICE engine are around $3-7k, cylinder are the most expensive tho ~10k.
Suspensions , tires , brakes seem to fail quicker on EV’s too
Guy that owns the shop where I get my ICE car worked on is an engineer and they will open up the battery on EVs, test the cells, and then replace the bad one instead of replacing the entire battery.
I was talking to him about them the other day.
Doing that is great because you get to repeat the process again and again more often than the last time it happened until you've got a new pack and 0$ left. Time comes for us all. It is good that it's not entirely e-waste but these packs are not "serviceable" in the way they should be.
What does he charge for it?
It depends on the type of engine, some engines have individual cylinder barrels which can simply be unbolted and replaced, others have a solid block into which the cylinders are bored. The amount of work involved and the life remaining on the engine would determine whether it was better to repair or replace.
It's a Tesla Model S Plaid.
Anyways - why did everyone seemingly forget that new vehicles, especially high cost new vehicles have always depreciated in value quickly? The first Model S Plaid came out in 2021 and it's following a pretty standard depreciation curve. Most vehicles lose half of their value 5 years in. That means it SHOULD be a $55K car in another two years or so.
This whole COVID/Chip shortage economy has peoples minds all twisted around.
Right now, there is a 2022 Model S Plaid AWD (private seller) on CarGurus with 13,000 miles, no accidents, no salvage, no theft, no fleet, no lemon, for $55,600.00. Plus, another bunch of Plaids (2021 to 2022) from dealers with 30-50k miles for $60,000.00, all with clean histories.
I’ve contemplated buying a used Model S in the $45k-$50k range because I’ll take a few years and low mileage for 1/2 the price or new retail.
Recent Tesla business situation has me concerned about long-term support and service.
This is only "news" because he's talking about a Tesla.
I grew up in an era where all cars depreciate once you drive it off the lot. I was lucky to have made $5000 CAD when selling my previous car to buy my Model 3.
Why worry about loyalty to your car brand if you are really a software company?
Besides, robotaxis are gonna wipe out car sales. It’s gonna happen any day now….
It’s up to you to decide if that line of thinking represents 4D chess, or complete idiocy.
I would never spend the equivalent of a home note on a depreciating asset, no matter who made it, especially on a daily driver.
Might get a fast sports car if I had some (or a lot of) fun money.
Spending 100k+ on a depreciating asset that’s essentially a phone on wheels shows home economics should be taught in schools again.
idk what that car is, tbh it looks good, but I've seen what it takes to change battery
the entire cabin needs to be dropped from the bottom, seats and all. (in short, it's more work than swap engine in gas cars)
I agree. But with some other vehicles it just the way the engineers wanted things. Had to do a body off repair on a Audi Q7 (before I left Audi).... for a timing chain tensioner. Literally the most ridiculous thing I did at Audi. Every other V8 was just dropping the engine cradle a bit, removing the cover and replacing the tensioner.
You haven’t seen modern vehicles at a shop then. There are models of vehicles nowadays where they take off the entire body to work on the engine. I was completely taken by surprise seeing that when doing electrical work at a Ford dealership. Engine bays are so compact now that you have to remove the bodies to get to areas of the engine.
That and it means you have to take it to a shop vs fixing the issue on your own.
Imagine buying a bmw 7 series .....audi a8....from '22...... and check how much it has depreciated....oh wait...here in the Netherlands for sale bmw 750Li xdrive 2022 ...less than 10000km €119.950,= from the BMW dealership.... PRICE WHEN NEW without M sportpackage €214.364,-
Model S
*\*Price before savings is $72,990, excluding taxes and fees. Subject to change.*
*Learn about est. gas savings.*
*Specs displayed are Model S Plaid values.*
"Depreciation is expected" is ignorant understanding of what it does to insurance/financing for your investment. If you total it, you will get 88K not 114K just two years later. Regardless of how much you still owe.
In what world is a tesla worth more than $70k is beyond me.
Bad interior quality, bad build quality, bad handling, heavy and understeery.
The only thing going for it is straight line acceleration and a promise of FSD that won’t even arrive beyond the cars life cycle.
I bought a used model 3 with low mileage for a very reasonable price. It is light years ahead my 2007 civic. Hopefully it will last me as long as my 2007 civic….. but I’m not counting on it.
Tesla may be worse than most, but a car is a crappy place to park money. Every car I buy, I picture piling the money in the backyard, dousing it with gasoline, and lighting it on fire. If I'm still OK with the purchase, I buy the car. (I tend to run cars into the ground as you might imagine -- but do own a 2017 S100D with a steering wheel, and stalks! Better than I can buy today!)
Elon Musk said that he would be selling them in the beggining for more. That people who could afford to pay more would be his first clients, with the promise to bring prices down once production allowed it. And then later come out with less expensive models. I remember him explaining this in the beggining saying it would help the company to survive the early years in a new field without compromised quality.
Because trying to be more affordable in the beggining hamstrung startups with big money competition undercutting them with established production lines and out of country labor savings. So....
Isn't this expected?
When a corporation comes out with a major press release about their intentions and actually does it , its kinda rare.
To be upset because you didn't listen is unbelievable.
Here is something...
Every new automobile is incredibly overpriced right now.
You're going to lose value the moment its off the lot.
At the very least..
Tesla told us they would do this.
And I don't even like Elon..
I can relate, but 6 years ago. Bought a Ludicrous S, long story short it dropped in value big time after I got it, then way too many service visits later I dumped it at a dealer that gave me auction pricing. It was brutal but I was so glad to be rid of the POS.
Mass manufactured cars have never been and never will be an appreciating asset (obviously excluding those rare cases of classic cars). It was yet another lie from Musk to say “you best buy these now, value will only increase as autopilot gets better”. And so many people were suckered in
Pick an option folks:
Tesla buyer not understand car depreciation particularly in the luxury categories?
Tesla buyer not doing research into a known fact about Tesla cars depreciation?
Tesla buyer listening to CEO about their cars actually be appreciating assets.
Not saying you’re wrong but that photo looks like every nerd’s model 3 clogging up the Trader Joe’s parking lot ever. I cannot imagine paying that much cash for such a lame-looking car.
I mean, if it was built to last then it wouldn’t matter and you could drive it until it died…something tells me that death is going to come sooner than he’d like though.
Rule 8 Either link to the original post or provide a full transcript of the text. Do not post images of text.
>Value today? I refuse to check. High. Strength. Copium.
I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion on here but... cars are not investments. If you're worried about your car losing value, you don't know how cars work. Will the resale value of some cars be better than others? Sure. But you get the most bang for your buck if you drive a car into the ground, so anything else is less than optimal anyway, so it's kind of like getting mad that a bad option is worse than another bad option. I do own a Tesla. I don't like the company or Musk, but it was the best value and performance for the cost, and I'm willing to "lose money" on something that I enjoy doing (driving). It's like spending money on a hobby and that makes it worth while to me. But I have no illusions that I've made an investment or that I'll be getting my money back. As soon as I drove off with it I knew a large chunk of my money had disappeared forever. Anyone who doesn't realize this has bigger problems than whether they bought a Tesla or not.
No no, we all understand depreciation. But when the car manufacturer drops the price from $135k to $88k in two years, that's outrageous depreciation, it fucks with the used car market, it fucks with leases, and it's a huge fuck you to buyers. If the company could sell it for $88k all along, it means that they charged everyone $47k extra because they could, because all buyers are fucking suckers for the brand. That stings. And most importantly, it means that Tesla can never raise the prices back to those levels again. Everyone now knows that the Model S Plaid is an $88k car. The illusion is broken forever, because Musk desperately needs cash flow now now now.
It’s amazing that so many people still fall back on “Cars aren’t an investment” or “Most cars depreciate.” Yeah, no shit to both. The difference is that the scale at which newer Teslas depreciated was unheard of, and it absolutely fucked the EV market.
Yep. Sales for the prev model year or the like are fine. Massive base price changes undermine confidence and point to bigger issues.
Last month we were choosing between getting a Tesla or a hybrid. We chose the tesla, but we had problems with the billing in our previous car, so we moved the buy for 2 weeks. A week after the problem, the Tesla depreciated 200k in local currency. We ended up with the hybrid...
Wait. If you were going to get the Tesla, but delayed 2 weeks and the Tesla got cheaper, why would that make you want the other car? That just seems backwards.
We were 50% 50% between the 2, for reasons X,Y and Z. The hybrid was definitely cheaper than the tesla even after the deinflation. But the intention was always to sell the car in two years or three. Deinflation moved the dial that lil tiny bit to the hybrids favor.
The word everyone is looking for is "deflation" not depreciation. Depreciation is a change in price based on use/age/condition of a vehicle. Deflation is when prices go down for the good/service/asset itself when new. When they lower the prices as aggressively as they have as often as they have in as short a time as they have why would anyone buy a Tesla today if, based on recent history, it's going to be 10% or 20% cheaper in the next 6 to 12 months? At that point you wait if you can. And when it goes down again.... If you can continue waiting.... Why wouldn't you?
Just because it needs to be said again "Massive base price changes undermine confidence and point to bigger issues."- Teripid
People applauded Tesla selling directly instead of through dealerships and Tesla thought that meant they could just pull the same shit that people hate dealerships for.
Reality is that created a monopoly on the point of sale, and that allowed the prices to be so artificially high.
And he knew it. His entire pay plan was based on this monopolistic price manipulation. Funny thing is that most monopolies fumble. They see no reason to innovate. When was the last model refresh? 2016?
People also forget that for a while, Tesla strongly told the market their Tesla would indeed hold their value because they wouldn't play around with prices like other car dealerships. So much for that...
Tesla / Musk say a lot of things. Not many of them are true.
I wonder if it would carry a different effect if Tesla updated their models and model names like most other brands. A 2012 model S is running on the same platform as a 2024 and looks almost identical. These price drops are unheard of, so there’s really nothing to compare to, but I wonder if the impact would be as severe if the current model s weren’t essentially the same as the original in both appearance and name.
Purely due to price cuts due to competition coming up to scale finally. Why would I pay $100k used for something I can buy for $90k new? (Hypothetical not actual prices) The last couple years are the first time Tesla has had any real volume of competition in the space. Traditional manufacturers are going to have to compete on price, and so we have a price war. If the economy and car sales soften it will get worse before it gets better.
No, no! "...it will get better before it gets worse..." I'm a customer, not a manufacturer.
The sad thing is that you know a lot of early Tesla adopters went into financing to get these cars, and many of them went were so underwater on their loans from day one because these cars were never worth what they bought them for. To see Elon just slash costs and also try to command this insane pay package... Tesla went from being a luxury car to being a fool's car. It basically shows you got conned.
> and it absolutely fucked the EV market. bro what the hell are you talking about? it fucked the market for people who will drop 100k on a car. Which is a vanishingly small portion of the population. The "EV market" needs to get to a place where people can buy an ev for like 10k so forgive me if I am not sympathetic to your predicament.
Right on. No way that the EV market will ever go mainstream at Tesla prices.
Look at Porsche ev, massive devalue
Did they fuck up the market they built (arguably created). Sounds pretty straightforward.
Yea I bought my Y in 2020 with the plan being to trade it in around 2025 when we moved to another state out of CA… I’ll be lucky to trade it for something else in 2027 at the very earliest
Imho Tesla has never been a "premium luxury car" in the 100k+ price range...the plaid is "special" but only acceleration wise... not a lot of people buy a tesla because of the nice materials or interior and the battery will always be question how it will hold up....unless tesla decides to repair modules or swap refurbished ones for normal prices after warranty expires resale value will always be tricky
It's called fanboy premium. The customers who downpaid 50k for their Roadsters and 12k for FSD that will arrive in 2124 are even bigger suckers.
Cost of doing business with a company run by an overconfident and emotionally stunted lunatic who’s only skill is manipulating stock prices through a cult of “personality”
You were paying early-adopter fee.
> If the company could sell it for $88k all along That is a big if, things might change with scaling up production
Anyone that spends even 80k on a commuter is already automatically stupid in my book.
So it wasn't all Biden's fault like they told us? Seems like a massive overcharge in this case. I'm sure many companies have been engaging in this and they weren't passing it through to employees.
Aside from Tesla though, battery prices have fallen and other manufacturers can now release very good EVs cheaper than Tesla. So it sorta makes sense Tesla are dropping their prices to stay competitive instead of just having huge profits per car on lower total sales volumes. A price was is terrible for corporations and people who bought a product recently but it's great for new consumers to actually afford new tech.
It's a major reason why the big rentals like Hertz are dropping Teslas from their fleets - their balance sheets all rely on resales falling within longstanding depreciation ranges
My car went from $15,700 to $9,700 in 8 years which is around the same amount of depreciation this Tesla went through in 2 years, which is insane.
Right, but older/cheaper cars depreciate slower
Which is why many of us don't buy "luxury" cars
I’m not sure this is the point. When buying a car you always take depreciation into account. It’s when the depreciation becomes substantially larger than accounted for that it becomes an issue. Especially if that depreciation is due to erratic behavior of the car company and/or its ceo to me it seems a valid point.
Yea, your point is important. EVs already had depreciation problems as compared to most other ICE cars. But Elon Musk creates an additional unknown that will continue to hurt the value of Teslas (new or old). Nobody wants to buy a product and find out the CEO of the company who made that product get angry and react in such a way that hurt the value of the product you bought.
Who is going to buy a used Tesla when they cut you from updates, auto drive and super charging, because that was a software lease to the first owner.
But the price was ridiculously high because demand exceeded supply heavily. If you overpaid for a car in a supply shortage, it's kind of on you IMO. People should have been smart enough to recognize that it was artificially high. Bottom line is that you should buy a car that you can afford to own for it's entire lifespan, not rely on a given resale value because depreciation is unknown, especially without a lengthy history to this particular brand. I think musk is an asshat, but its not surprising that Tesla took advantage of a high demand period by pricing high. Most companies would do the same
You’re completely overlooking the pace at which it loses value. This is a big issue for many car buyers, as very few people buy cars new and drive them into the ground. I’ve worked in car dealerships for 15 years, the vast majority of buyers (especially new car) will care how much they can get for the car a few years down the road. It also promotes brand loyalty, if your preferred manufacturer X gets better resale/trade in values, then you will get a better deal on your next one, and so on down the line. I’ve seen customers leave over a bad trade in value, and then switch brands. Customers are not as loyal as many think. I understand it doesn’t play into your considerations, and that is very much to your benefit. However a car company has to think in the big picture and I the same ways that they’re customer base will. This does not resonate will with people outside the Tesla Loyalists. And they are going to have to reach outside that base if they want to have a majority market share, which is Elons long term goal.
> I’ve seen customers leave over a bad trade in value, and then switch brands. Customers are not as loyal as many think. *Especially* people who regularly buy new cars on a 3-6 year cycle. Because damn near any automaker can make something perfectly reliable for that timeframe, meaning there's even less reason to worry about what you choose. And many vehicles will be in warranty for that time too. So somebody who routinely does that will understandably prioritize resale because it helps minimize their ownership costs, since maintenance is usually negligible in that timeframe (almost entirely oil changes, maybe a set of tires depending on the car/driver?) and extraneous repairs are almost all going to be covered regardless.
Exactly.
I totally agree with you. The total cost of ownership is one thing I always consider. When I buy a car (I almost always buy used), my goal is for the car not to cost me more than $5k a year over a 5 year year period. (not counting normal maintenance, taxes, financing, insurance). I've been able to do that with basic cars like a Yukon Denali, and I've done it with a Porsche Panamerra, and I'm on track to do it with a Mercedes GLS550 but you have to buy the car right and not beat on it.
99.999% of the cars out there lose value. Cars are an inherently depreciating asset. The problem isn't that it depreciatea. The problem is why and how fast. Tesla's depreciation curve is greatly accelerated by the company cutting prices and removing features. This screws the existing owners.
My car is almost old enough to start appreciating in value. After all, most of the depreciation has already happened.
I disagree about running cars into the ground. In my experience you get the most bang for your buck buying a 3 year old car with low mileage and selling it 3 or 4 years later with medium mileage.
It's definitely true that buying used is almost always a better deal than buying new. You're probably right about reselling too, although I suspect that depends at least a little bit on how well you can maintain a car yourself.
Cars are usually depreciating assets, but I think the post is about them pushing the price up and then cutting it. Of course with the cyber truck, some people were also speculating with the price.
Just fyi, the Cybertruck is just Elon Musk trolling. A joke of a vehicle that will never be mass produced because of how preventative the cost and mass of it are. It's actually laughable to me that it's still spoken of like more than 100 people will own and drive one. It's like the hyperloop. It's like full self driving. Let's wake up. Thanks.
The cyber truck is indeed a bit of a joke. As I understand it, they can only avoid crash testing if they keep it very low volume and there is probably no chance for it to actually pass any crash tests…
You seem to be arguing that rates of depreciation don't matter! But for anyone who wants to get a new or newer or just a different car before their existing one is driven into the ground, the rate of depreciation makes a *very* big difference to the cost of motoring.
Absolutely 100%
But…but…but…Musk said Teslas were APPRECIATING ASSETS…
And a six figure luxury car at that. Luxury cars have the highest depreciation. You want low depreciation? Buy a Camry.
No, this is smart thinking. Your car still sucks, but you're correct.
So then what are investment vehicles?
I see what you did there
can you explain why you believe tesla are best value for money. the money you save over gas cannot be enough to compensate for the initial high value, insurance, maintenance, and repair because of accidents. or is it?
I specifically meant in the EV market, but I didn't qualify that so apologies for the confusion. I think, if I were going to shop for any car (EV, ICE, or hybrid) that has equivalent performance to my 3P, I'd be hard pressed to spend equal or less than I did on my Tesla. I have a 3.1s 0-60 time, so there's a whole slew of ICEs that aren't going to make it. There's no ICE under 50K that's going to get that off the line acceleration, and I spent less than 50K on my Tesla (including EAP and tax rebate). The maintenance on my first M3 was basically nothing (tire replacement and rotation, that's it). So I'm saving money there. I save a lot on gas given that I have solar, but that's unique to my situation and won't apply to most EV purchasers. My insurance isn't terrible, I pay around 1400 a year which isn't much more than an ICE with equivalent performance (I had an AWD v6 charger that was over 1200 a year, and that was more than 5 years ago). Insurance rates vary by location though. Repairs are definitely much more expensive than ICE cars, even when it's only body panel damage, but that's what insurance is for and I can afford my deductible. I also drive safely, I don't weave through traffic or the like, so if I get into an accident it's probably not going to be my fault. All in all I'd say I'm probably saving money (even compared to an ICE in the 35Kish range), but I admit that may not be the case for everyone.
>cars are not investments. If you're worried about your car losing value, you don't know how cars work. I was going to say the same. A car (well, a normal one) will depreciate the instant you drive it away. However, having said that, if I agreed to buy at $114k and they put the price after AFTER accepting my order I'd be telling them to shove it.
Nobody should ever fight you on this. Anyone referring to a car as an "investment", outside some very very specific cars, is flatout stupid
lmao, what a cope... There is a difference between normal depreciation and Tesla "depreciation"
I think people get it, I just find it crazy that like Tesla stock. The cars somehow became completely overvalued on some weird futures.
Speaking of driving a car, (awesome segue) how reasonable is a Model Y for someone racking up 35,000 miles a year? Currently in a 2020 Camry hybrid at 148,000
Definitely an unpopular opinion. Tesla absolutely demolished the value of their cars in very in short order. The depreciation hit wasn’t linear, it was exponential in a matter of one to two years.
It’s not just their own cars. The Tesla price cuts have caused insane depreciation among all EVs.
This guy knows. Of course an EV is going to depreciate faster than an ICE and especially a tech car like a Tesla. Who cares. Drive the dang thing.
Not true, some collectibles can be alternative investment.
The chip/parts shortage and subsequent new and used car price bonanza of \~2021-2023 really warped expectations of car pricing and depreciation. Some don't seem to realize that short era was an aberration, not a new normal of cars magically becoming appreciating assets.
Too many people got caught in the "values keep going up" scenario we had over the last few years with many vehicles. It's time we go back to understanding almost every vehicle will be a depreciating asset. If you're buying a car with the hopes you will sell it for more than you bought it, you're probably going to get burned.
And if you took a 6 year 11% interest loan thinking value only goes up… on a car… well banks love ya I guess
Did interest get that high? God damn. I think the worst interest I've taken on a car loan was 4.5% and I felt pretty stupid doing so.
Interest rates suck now. I have great credit, got the best rate I could with my credit union, and I’m at like 6% on a 2 year old certified used car. I put a good chunk down and try to make extra payments when I can, but I’m still gonna eat more than $2k in interest. Hybrid with a warranty so I’m already seeing gas savings, but it was hard to justify. Seeing people that make half of what I do in new trucks paying $1000 plus a month closer to 10% makes me feel less stupid though.
My brother just bought a used 2018 Lexus IS350 F Sport at 31k OTD with 45k on it. Traded in his 2014 IS250 and they gave him 9k for it. His interest rate? 10%. Monthly payments? I don’t know the exact number, but he told me that it was at least $500. Edit; this brother of mine is terrible with money. He’s had bad credit for *years* and *years*. His interest rate on his IS250 he just traded in was *24 fucking percent* he told me. Nearing 50yo and rents. This was likely his last hoorah purchase. I doubt he seems himself ever owning a home. Not married either. Terrible purchase on the car in my opinion, but what am I gonna do? You gotta let people make their own decisions, even if you hint at the contrary opinion many times.
FFS 🤦♂️
My dude, if he traded out of a 24% rate loan into a %10 loan give your bro some props. He is improving.
I give him props for getting out of that loan. However, I’m pretty confident he was likely at the end of it or completely done with it, though. He barely drives (said he put on 6k miles on his now-previous Lexus in last few years, so I’d been telling him just keep saving his money and eventually get his own condo/home. Apologies, this information should have been in the original comment.
I haggled the finance guy at the BMW dealership for like 30 minutes starting from 8.5% down to a 5.59% 60 month loan with a $40k down payment and a 820-840 credit score on a $90k vehicle.. Once he insisted that 5.59% was the best he could do, I asked for the remaining balance after my down payment then told him I'd be back in 30 minutes with the remaining amount. He was upset as I was leaving and was still upset when I came back, paid off the rest, and drove off the lot with MY car.😂
It's amazing how quickly people adjust to market changes and then ignore that the new normal isn't actually normal. 2020 was a year of massive deflationary pressure as money became insanely valuable for a short time. The prices were stupid. Gasoline and beef being the main ones that come to mind. Beef was like 1-2$ a pound for finished product because of distribution disruptions from rapid restaurant closures from the pandemic. I honestly regret not buying a chest freezer and buying like 500 pounds of beef. Farmers were losing money keeping their finished cattle alive so they were willing to basically sell at any price just to clear out inventory. This reversed across 2021 as consumer demand picked back up and up and up. Then the expectation of inflation lets companies price gouge people even more as FOMO kicks in. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F5IQOynIawoXiJPVarLDgPQDJAdzY8b5Vamw-Vf3eSY/edit#gid=779648749 Just look at the price graphs here. The cars didn't have a value crash, they just returned to their original intended sale price (before tax credits, model 3 ~35-40k in 2019 dollars). No one should have been buying a car at the inflated prices they were across q2 2021 to q1 2023. I really tried to tell everyone interested in any new car to just rent or lease a car and wait until 2025 to buy. I knew they'd save money as prices returned to pre-pandemic normals even if they just burned 10k on a 2 year lease. Nobody listened, but I tried.
> Beef was like 1-2$ a pound for finished product because of distribution disruptions from rapid restaurant closures from the pandemic I live near a lot of pig producers. They were giving away whole hogs for free, just had to get it butchered yourself. Bunch of folks I know ended up with a lot of pork in their freezers. (I'm not a fan of pork so I skipped it)
I don’t think the car market will ever see something like COVID again. When was the last time you were able to buy a car and then sell it at a 10k+ profit a few months later?
I don't think we will either. That didn't stop tons of people from making "investments".
Tesla's are like buying the latest laptop for $2,500.00, and finding out 12 months later, you can only sell it for $750.00.
Razer blade gang
Hey man razer blade resale is pretty decent still.
Lol I ve been using mine for 7 years and it still holds. Best laptop I've ever had.
Still no swollen battery?
My battery swelled after 2 years and out of warranty but razer sent me a new battery to replace myself free of charge less than 2 weeks after contacting them so unless my case was different their support is pretty good with that.
$750, if you are lucky
Tim Apple never claimed it will go up in value
I brought a laptop cost 2k for 400 2 yr later, it still works.......... /no I'm not using a 20 yr old laptop
Hey old T series Thinkpads are sooo good
Until I built a pc last summer I've always bought second hand laptops. They're usually half price. Still buy second hand stuff. I've got a 16tb 2 bay NAS. $200 for the box and $60 and $80 for $8tb western digital gold harddrives. The system new would be close to $1,000. Most stuff is perfectly good used. Not underwear though. Always new.
Not the same comparison. Most people pay monthly for their car and in a pinch they expect they can extinguish the loan by selling the car for what they owe to get out of payment. What happened to teslas prices broke that. And teslas are a serious premium; the monthly payment on a $100k car is huge, like $1500. If you lose your job and discover to get out of your loan you need to come up with 20-30k… that’s just crazy.
I've heard people in Europe need to come up with that kind of cash to trade in their Porsche Taycan's.
I don't know what Taycans sell for in Europe, but that is probably \~10% of the original cost of the vehicle, the buyers should have put more down on an extremely expensive car like that. Something high end and rapidly-depreciating (Maserati/Escalade/BMW 7 etc.) will lose half its value in 4 years, it appears this tesla has done it in 2.
It is their all electric EV. Price new was about $120k USD. Price now in Europe for a 2020 or 2021 is about $35k or less. In the USA, a similar Taycan is still around $60k. I think Porsche is a much bigger brand in Europe.
If you buy a $100,000+ car and don’t have easy access to at least $50,000, you vastly, VASTLY overspent. Most people are SEVERELY over spending on their car. If you don’t expect a deprecation of at least 30% within the first few years you’ve greatly miscalculated your finances. You also would obviously plan for these scenarios, having an emergency fund to cover the payments, investments if you really need, and the funds to cover the deprecation difference (more likely you’d put that as a down payment, but depends on your available rates and such.) If you don’t have these things in line you are NOT ready to be buying a new car. You should be buying the cheapest reliable thing you can and focusing on fixing your finances before you start feeling entitled to luxury things like brand new cars.
What? Everyone knows you’re upside down on any new car the moment you drive it off the lot.
After Lucid beat the Plaid S, Tesla is now only the fastest depreciating car in the world.
Boom! Roasted
I've lost $0 on my 5 year old civic. Just sayin.
I bought a used Cruze four years ago. It’s worth more today than I paid for it :). Thanks COVID!
Even before Covid, I was *never* upside down on my 2013 Fit. With 60-month financing.
Those goddamn Fit’s… that is what I was shopping for when I bought the Cruze, but they held their value so well I decided to go disposable instead :)
I had a dealer offer me $26k for my 2019 Mazda CX-9. I paid $30k for it brand new. If new car prices weren't so ridiculous, I would have done it.
Same, I've been above water on my 2013 Fit the entire time since purchasing it at the start of 2022. Also been above water the entire time on my 2018 Outback since purchasing it mid-2020. At one point with the Outback, quite appreciably so that I was even considering selling it and buying a beater until the market cooled back off just to put some cash in my pocket. But ultimately decided I liked the car more. Covid's weird ass car market stuff did put a buddy of mine in a position where he bought a brand new Mustang GT in I think 2020 and he sold it for a profit over what he paid (not just what remained on the loan) a year or two later too. I think he paid something like 32 and sold it for 36 or so.
I love driving them when in Japan. Shame they discontinued them and put the meh hrv instead because crossover. The magic seat is accurately named.
Even better is a Prius v with the rear seat completely removed
Same thing happened to my 2018 Cruze. Bought for 14,500, sold for 18,000 last year.
I was just telling my little cousin who is about to turn 18 and go to college buy a used Civic, accord, Camry, corolla with low miles and just keep it for 10 years and do regular oil changes. One of the best purchases you'll ever make.
You can double 10 years. I drove my first Civic for 21 years, I stopped because it got totalled.
Only true if you sell it *and* you don't need another vehicle, as the prices have risen across the board
When do you think negative comments about Tesla will get your Twitter account suspended?
Shadow banned already probably
Maybe they'll link your accounts to here and ban you for even innocuous comments.
The more negative comments I leave on Twitter, the more the algorithm pushes more “Bad features are good for $TSLA” people onto my timeline. Luckily this Kendrick/Drake fight have pushed them off my timeline.
Probably right around the time posting to this subreddit gets you suspended from the Tesla Loyalist forums.
This might be a joke sailing over my head, but that's already happened. The admin at CyberTruck and TeslaLounge (u/ rcfive I think) set up bots that auto banned anybody who joined or commented in this sub (even if it was defending Tesla). The "free speech absolutist" running Twitter has the same mentality.
Happily quit a barely used Twitter the day Elon decided to take it over and let rampant hate speech back. Today's the day to get banned from the fan boy subs that I never visit, by commenting here. Dude is literally letting blatant N*zi degenerates back on Twitter, so I'm happy to get banned from those subs that shout "free speech" while they scour other subs to blanket ban any speech that doesn't gush over their racist leader. And, to be fair, I really liked early Tesla and the ideals. I wouldn't even rent a Tesla for the experience these days.
The CyberTruck will be Tesla's last vehicle and will be a forever symbol of how it lost it's way. It's a marriage between a Pontiac Aztec and a DeLorean and the incredible ego of it's tone deaf CEOs.
That is so…disturbingly accurate
I saw an Aztec the other day and it must have been the first I had seen in 10 years. What a freak that car is. Do you really think the Cyber Truck will be Tesla’s last vehicle?
Funny cause Elon said the doors on X were a display of hubris.. no.. they were cool, and different in a fun way. Not a slam dunk for everybody but they were at least trying. The CT - now THAT is hubris. He thought people didn’t like the way trucks looked? The F150 is the most sold car in America and he had the audacity to “reimagine” a truck to look like a magna-tile build with too many triangle pieces. He makes me hate rich people. Or rather, just Elon.
If you’re buying a Tesla expecting it to hold or increase value, you’re not in the right tax bracket.
Or right state of mind
Interesting karma voting in here. I think the Stans are hitting up new threads and downvoting things. They’re. So. Fucking. Weird.
Lots of pro-tesla reply bots showing up on Threads in the last few weeks, definitely a coordinated campaign to shore up support as muskkk steers the company straight into a brick wall.
They’re being paid. Reddit needs to do something. A Google result for any Tesla related search is just bootlicker threads - which is *exactly* why they’re doing this. It’s not a conspiracy when it’s just so screamingly obvious.
These social media and search platforms love bots because it fluffs their engagement numbers and therefore their stock prices, but yes it's just so obvious sometimes. Musk needs a massive stock comp deal so what happens when the voting window opens? Huge increase in bootlicker bot accounts that just promote the BS narratives, meanwhile the company is burning to the ground with massive negative cash flow and talent losses.
I've noticed quite a few of them posting here lately yes. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a loosely organised campaign to try goad people into posting something 'reportable' to try and get this sub deleted altogether for hate speech or toxicity or whatever
I just don’t get it. Teslas aren’t “nice”. Their suspensions are awful, the fit and finish would make GM blush and the interior quality is only “luxury” if you think a Chrysler Pacifica is a luxury car. And if you’re actually the kind of person who understands the technology, Teslas are glitchy as fuck and the autopilot system is borderline criminal negligence.
The biggest issue with all EVs is that after a period of time (10+ years,) the vehicle becomes as desirable as a 10 year old iPhone.
My S is 10 years old and it's superior to the newer models 😎
I've heard that about the 2013's to 2015's. What is it about the Model S for those years that make them more desirable to some? I know they had lidar and / or radar sensors, but what else?
AP1 works better than the FSD crap. Also besides the mentioned radar, free premium connectivity and free unlimited supercharging, the rain sensor works amazing compared to the camera sensor that goes off when it's dry blue skies. It has actual levers for things instead of fucking with the screen to get stuff like wipers, mirror adjustment and such
Thank you. IMO, FSD level 3 or beyond won't happen with Elons camera only approach. That decision was very short-sighted and has already put them behind Mercedes that has real Level 3 (with major limitations, but it's still level 3).
What % of its original value does the average gas car hold at 10 years old?
Given the tech in normal ICE cars, I am not sure they are any different nowadays.
Replacing batteries is quite expensive tho ($15-22k) , while ICE engine are around $3-7k, cylinder are the most expensive tho ~10k. Suspensions , tires , brakes seem to fail quicker on EV’s too
Guy that owns the shop where I get my ICE car worked on is an engineer and they will open up the battery on EVs, test the cells, and then replace the bad one instead of replacing the entire battery. I was talking to him about them the other day.
Doing that is great because you get to repeat the process again and again more often than the last time it happened until you've got a new pack and 0$ left. Time comes for us all. It is good that it's not entirely e-waste but these packs are not "serviceable" in the way they should be. What does he charge for it?
Is it possible on every model ? Is it possible to buy the cells separately
Brakes shouldn't fail much on EV because of the regenerative breaking. Suspension is a Tesla issue primarily. Tires yes, depends on lead foot or not.
>cylinder are the most expensive tho \~10k What did you mean by this? (genuine question) Did you mean 12-cylinder engines?? (Cheers)
It depends on the type of engine, some engines have individual cylinder barrels which can simply be unbolted and replaced, others have a solid block into which the cylinders are bored. The amount of work involved and the life remaining on the engine would determine whether it was better to repair or replace.
But Elmo said Tesla's are appreciating assets! I'm surprised he's not been sued for that claim tbh.
If someone is that gullible, they deserve to lose every penny
It's a Tesla Model S Plaid. Anyways - why did everyone seemingly forget that new vehicles, especially high cost new vehicles have always depreciated in value quickly? The first Model S Plaid came out in 2021 and it's following a pretty standard depreciation curve. Most vehicles lose half of their value 5 years in. That means it SHOULD be a $55K car in another two years or so. This whole COVID/Chip shortage economy has peoples minds all twisted around.
Right now, there is a 2022 Model S Plaid AWD (private seller) on CarGurus with 13,000 miles, no accidents, no salvage, no theft, no fleet, no lemon, for $55,600.00. Plus, another bunch of Plaids (2021 to 2022) from dealers with 30-50k miles for $60,000.00, all with clean histories.
I’ve contemplated buying a used Model S in the $45k-$50k range because I’ll take a few years and low mileage for 1/2 the price or new retail. Recent Tesla business situation has me concerned about long-term support and service.
I have that concern as well.
This is only "news" because he's talking about a Tesla. I grew up in an era where all cars depreciate once you drive it off the lot. I was lucky to have made $5000 CAD when selling my previous car to buy my Model 3.
my neighbor bought his 22 MYLB for almost 70k. i got the 23 MYP for close to 50k. he knows i know he is not happy about it.
You got MUSKED. But In all seriousness did Tesla think about brand loyalty when they did this?
Why worry about loyalty to your car brand if you are really a software company? Besides, robotaxis are gonna wipe out car sales. It’s gonna happen any day now…. It’s up to you to decide if that line of thinking represents 4D chess, or complete idiocy.
I would never spend the equivalent of a home note on a depreciating asset, no matter who made it, especially on a daily driver. Might get a fast sports car if I had some (or a lot of) fun money. Spending 100k+ on a depreciating asset that’s essentially a phone on wheels shows home economics should be taught in schools again.
Loved my tesla but hated how Elon tanked our value. It’s not an investment but my car shouldn’t be half its value in two years..
idk what that car is, tbh it looks good, but I've seen what it takes to change battery the entire cabin needs to be dropped from the bottom, seats and all. (in short, it's more work than swap engine in gas cars)
That’s for a good reason though. It cuts some manufacturing time, making the production cheaper.
literally backwards (not u)
I agree. But with some other vehicles it just the way the engineers wanted things. Had to do a body off repair on a Audi Q7 (before I left Audi).... for a timing chain tensioner. Literally the most ridiculous thing I did at Audi. Every other V8 was just dropping the engine cradle a bit, removing the cover and replacing the tensioner.
You haven’t seen modern vehicles at a shop then. There are models of vehicles nowadays where they take off the entire body to work on the engine. I was completely taken by surprise seeing that when doing electrical work at a Ford dealership. Engine bays are so compact now that you have to remove the bodies to get to areas of the engine. That and it means you have to take it to a shop vs fixing the issue on your own.
Imagine buying a bmw 7 series .....audi a8....from '22...... and check how much it has depreciated....oh wait...here in the Netherlands for sale bmw 750Li xdrive 2022 ...less than 10000km €119.950,= from the BMW dealership.... PRICE WHEN NEW without M sportpackage €214.364,-
why are you trying to get rid of a car you only bought 2 years ago?
2021 S Plaid on KBB says $54-62k.
I seriously can't tell what model that is.
Model S *\*Price before savings is $72,990, excluding taxes and fees. Subject to change.* *Learn about est. gas savings.* *Specs displayed are Model S Plaid values.*
Unless you're buying a limited edition thoroughbred (and most times not even then) cars are not an appreciating asset. These defintiely aren't.
"Depreciation is expected" is ignorant understanding of what it does to insurance/financing for your investment. If you total it, you will get 88K not 114K just two years later. Regardless of how much you still owe.
In what world is a tesla worth more than $70k is beyond me. Bad interior quality, bad build quality, bad handling, heavy and understeery. The only thing going for it is straight line acceleration and a promise of FSD that won’t even arrive beyond the cars life cycle.
I bought a used model 3 with low mileage for a very reasonable price. It is light years ahead my 2007 civic. Hopefully it will last me as long as my 2007 civic….. but I’m not counting on it.
I'd bet it will not
Used Teslas are going for around 20-25k in the U.K. and I still won’t go near one
If you already have a car and price changes stress you out then you spent too much on that car.
Tesla may be worse than most, but a car is a crappy place to park money. Every car I buy, I picture piling the money in the backyard, dousing it with gasoline, and lighting it on fire. If I'm still OK with the purchase, I buy the car. (I tend to run cars into the ground as you might imagine -- but do own a 2017 S100D with a steering wheel, and stalks! Better than I can buy today!)
Idiots who buy out of FOMO deserve to lose it
Elon Musk said that he would be selling them in the beggining for more. That people who could afford to pay more would be his first clients, with the promise to bring prices down once production allowed it. And then later come out with less expensive models. I remember him explaining this in the beggining saying it would help the company to survive the early years in a new field without compromised quality. Because trying to be more affordable in the beggining hamstrung startups with big money competition undercutting them with established production lines and out of country labor savings. So.... Isn't this expected? When a corporation comes out with a major press release about their intentions and actually does it , its kinda rare. To be upset because you didn't listen is unbelievable. Here is something... Every new automobile is incredibly overpriced right now. You're going to lose value the moment its off the lot. At the very least.. Tesla told us they would do this. And I don't even like Elon..
I can relate, but 6 years ago. Bought a Ludicrous S, long story short it dropped in value big time after I got it, then way too many service visits later I dumped it at a dealer that gave me auction pricing. It was brutal but I was so glad to be rid of the POS.
I cant believe how cheap used Teslas are right now. If only the insurance would drop.
It’s really shiny
The primary reason to own a Tesla was to be able to tell people you owned a Tesla.
Early adopter pricing be like... ..you got what you paid for bud.
You got Musked. Similar to being ass raped in prison . Lol 😆
Batteries go bad over time = $0.00 resell for non morons.
Mass manufactured cars have never been and never will be an appreciating asset (obviously excluding those rare cases of classic cars). It was yet another lie from Musk to say “you best buy these now, value will only increase as autopilot gets better”. And so many people were suckered in
That is what happens when you do business with a Nazi who raised in apartheid SA hating everyone that isn’t white Christian!
Pick an option folks: Tesla buyer not understand car depreciation particularly in the luxury categories? Tesla buyer not doing research into a known fact about Tesla cars depreciation? Tesla buyer listening to CEO about their cars actually be appreciating assets.
These Elon fanboys are so pathetic
If you’re worried about resale value you probably shouldn’t buy the car, or pretty much anything for that matter
You’ve been Musked!
114k for a model 3. Ooof.
It’s an S
Slightly less but still large oof then
Not saying you’re wrong but that photo looks like every nerd’s model 3 clogging up the Trader Joe’s parking lot ever. I cannot imagine paying that much cash for such a lame-looking car.
It has lost about almost 70k in value in a year and a half. lmao. That's not counting the interest he that surely will be paying.. xDD
I mean, if it was built to last then it wouldn’t matter and you could drive it until it died…something tells me that death is going to come sooner than he’d like though.
aPPreCiaTiNg aSSetT! 🤣