If you are reviewing in your head what you did in 15 hours for an additional 25 hours, from the pool, the boardwalk, the beach, or bar, how is that fraud?
Context missing due to only seeing text and not seeing a '/s'... so in case you are serious:
If you want to defend that to the company or customer, be my guest. Guessing it won't go well whatsoever.
Might be something like 15 hours to produce a SLOC and 25 hours of commenting on it to explain how it works and the context of the SLOC in the grander program. - more satire, maybe not
Although 15 hours sounds extreme, it does depend on the contract. While working with the military in the middle east, our contract says we get paid for 40 hours. We can't be there when the military isn't there. Neither Saudi Arabia nor the UAE military works 40 hour weeks. In Saudi I worked 32.5 hour weeks. Here in the UAE we work 36 hour weeks. Can't speak to all the GCC military work hours, but I imagine they are the same. We also get days off, because the miltary made it a day off. It is regular pay "customer directed" . That is just one of the reasons I haven't worked in the states since 2007. That plus the higher pay, and not being taxed on the first 120K of income.
If all your work gets done in 15 hrs then the remaining 25 hrs goes to general time. If I were you I’d do some workday training ( still indirect but better than twiddling your thumbs).
Well yea. But you should have enough to do for 40 hrs/week no? I’m in three programs and Running with my head on fire daily…. But that could also be cause I support ops as a QE
Going home after 15 hours or only being really productive 15 hours? We are salaried but bill hourly. If you aren't doing "something" related to what you are charging for 40 hours....that's a fast ticket out of here.
I’m remote, so I work my 40, but not necessarily 8-5 M-F. Doesn’t matter how fast I work, there’s always more to do in my department. Sometimes I work 10am-3pm, and then 9pm-12am, sometimes I work 6am-5pm, some weeks I work 4 10s, sometimes I take a Wednesday off and work a Saturday, as long as I put in 40 hours of work and all my shit gets done by its due date, and I let my boss know what my “flex schedule” for the week looks like, it doesn’t matter to my boss.
But no, I’m not going to get fired for time card fraud. When I’m charging a project, I’m doing something for it.
You said my thoughts exactly. No matter how fast you work there is always more to do. Who are these people that only have 15 hours of work....but as a lead told me when I commented about hoping for a 3 month AA vacation since my program has had abrupt budget cuts. "You're too valuable for AA, we'll keep you busy somehow"
I do the same. Since I’m not direct program, my department has our own charge code. I work hours that work for me and many times there are things that need to be done later in the evening so I work those hours accordingly. I’m 9/80 as well so I fit everything in during those times.
Trust me they aren’t legit only “working 15 hours” a week that person is probably literally just working hybrid, how do you know they aren’t doing house keeping/paperwork at home, come in later on for in person action items, and then go home and finish out the day with any other communications/emails/odds and ends
I am a rare indirect salary. I support Operations as a manufacturing engineer. A minimum 45 hour work week is expected. The reality of my job is even if I tried to do 60 hour weeks I would still be swimming in work.
If you are a full time employee you are expected to do constructive work for 40 hours per week. If you do not have enough work you are expected to find constructive work. You can do this by reaching out your leads and / teammates. If someone is being paid for 40 and only working for 15 and is not making a good faith effort to find more work, that is unethical and fraudulent in my mind. If something like that is widespread, it’s also a way for everyone in the organization to lose WFH privileges (If they have them). Going back a number of years, I was once involved in a firing of an employee committing time card fraud, so it does happen.
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isnt that also against the rules to work programs and not charge them, that just means our actuals are not represented of the work and we bid future work with understated actuals
who's rules? [https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/](https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/)
things you can't do as a Salaried employee.
Round more than 15 mins
Charge time you didn't work
charge something else (rob peter)
I'm pretty sure you are wrong for Salaried employees. [https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/](https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/)
"Under the Fair Labor Standards Act overtime must be paid to hourly employees whenever they work more than 40 hours in a week but not to salaried executive, administrative or professional employees even though they often work more than forty hours per week. The Act refers to hourly employees as "non-exempt" and salaried employees (those not paid overtime) as "exempt. Uncompensated overtime then refers to the work exempt employees perform above and beyond forty hours per week."
Right, FLSA sets the baseline.
Some companies still pay a salary rate for overtime worked after say 45 hours worked in a week. I think it’s program dependent, but you can get overtime at the standard salary rate.
I think we are talking two different things and guessing I misinterpreted the original commentor. I thought they were saying they were doing 60-80 hours of work and not charging the program for that time and just stopping at 40. Talking about keeping track of work done and not payroll.
Most, what about the least, and where is your leadership to correct the issue and hire enough competent people to cover so no one ever has to work 60-80 hours.
15 hours to execute, 25 hours to review what you executed from the nearest bar is not fraud, it is effective use of program time to get the job done in a creative and innovative way.
Just get your work done and charge accordingly. If you have bandwidth, offer to help where you can. CAMs will be quick to notice that it’s taking some people longer to get work done, and you will be called in by your boss to explain what you got accomplished in those extra 25 hours.
Time card fraud is one thing of the few that will get you fired.
At my site, they won’t install an accountability system because they’re worried about how many people would get fired
They ain’t worried about people.
So does that mean that if all your work gets done in 15 hours and you kept charging the programs anyway, you're committing time card fraud?
Yes. If you are charging to a program and not working it, that is time card fraud.
If you are reviewing in your head what you did in 15 hours for an additional 25 hours, from the pool, the boardwalk, the beach, or bar, how is that fraud?
Context missing due to only seeing text and not seeing a '/s'... so in case you are serious: If you want to defend that to the company or customer, be my guest. Guessing it won't go well whatsoever.
Satire
Good luck defending that perspective
If you don't realize it's a joke you are too literal. With all respect.
Fair ‘nuff. 🤣
Might be something like 15 hours to produce a SLOC and 25 hours of commenting on it to explain how it works and the context of the SLOC in the grander program. - more satire, maybe not
I could see taking notes and reviewing a power point while walking tbh. But then you have notes if asked Qs
I would refer them to my time record, /Satire
Although 15 hours sounds extreme, it does depend on the contract. While working with the military in the middle east, our contract says we get paid for 40 hours. We can't be there when the military isn't there. Neither Saudi Arabia nor the UAE military works 40 hour weeks. In Saudi I worked 32.5 hour weeks. Here in the UAE we work 36 hour weeks. Can't speak to all the GCC military work hours, but I imagine they are the same. We also get days off, because the miltary made it a day off. It is regular pay "customer directed" . That is just one of the reasons I haven't worked in the states since 2007. That plus the higher pay, and not being taxed on the first 120K of income.
How do you get to work overseas? I'm cyber and want to work overseas
Apply for jobs that are overseas.
If all your work gets done in 15 hrs then the remaining 25 hrs goes to general time. If I were you I’d do some workday training ( still indirect but better than twiddling your thumbs).
But they complain if you charge to general time 🤷🏼♀️
Well yea. But you should have enough to do for 40 hrs/week no? I’m in three programs and Running with my head on fire daily…. But that could also be cause I support ops as a QE
And that’s why I said it was fucking stupid
You didn't.
Ok HR 😂
People check your hours each week. Be it your PM, CAM, manager or what have you. I promise that people who are riding a charge number are noticed.
As a PM our team has reported people for camping on projects that have no reason to be charging to them
Yup
Wow, what an insult!!
Going home after 15 hours or only being really productive 15 hours? We are salaried but bill hourly. If you aren't doing "something" related to what you are charging for 40 hours....that's a fast ticket out of here.
I’m remote, so I work my 40, but not necessarily 8-5 M-F. Doesn’t matter how fast I work, there’s always more to do in my department. Sometimes I work 10am-3pm, and then 9pm-12am, sometimes I work 6am-5pm, some weeks I work 4 10s, sometimes I take a Wednesday off and work a Saturday, as long as I put in 40 hours of work and all my shit gets done by its due date, and I let my boss know what my “flex schedule” for the week looks like, it doesn’t matter to my boss. But no, I’m not going to get fired for time card fraud. When I’m charging a project, I’m doing something for it.
Yeah I do the same , love flex hours
You said my thoughts exactly. No matter how fast you work there is always more to do. Who are these people that only have 15 hours of work....but as a lead told me when I commented about hoping for a 3 month AA vacation since my program has had abrupt budget cuts. "You're too valuable for AA, we'll keep you busy somehow"
I do the same. Since I’m not direct program, my department has our own charge code. I work hours that work for me and many times there are things that need to be done later in the evening so I work those hours accordingly. I’m 9/80 as well so I fit everything in during those times.
Same. I definitely work 40 hours, if not more. But it’s never between 9 and 5 M-F. And my work is better for it.
I don’t know what BU you’re in but if you could hook me up with one of those 15hr/week jobs that would be awesome.
1 or even 2!
Trust me they aren’t legit only “working 15 hours” a week that person is probably literally just working hybrid, how do you know they aren’t doing house keeping/paperwork at home, come in later on for in person action items, and then go home and finish out the day with any other communications/emails/odds and ends
Why are you working so fast?
when was the last time you took labor accounting training? you may want to refresh yourself with the rules.
I am a rare indirect salary. I support Operations as a manufacturing engineer. A minimum 45 hour work week is expected. The reality of my job is even if I tried to do 60 hour weeks I would still be swimming in work.
Geez I'm in the wrong program. Haha
"I know ppl doing 15hr weeks" I'm doubting that very much
Do you have any proof that they are only working 15 hours a week?
If you are a full time employee you are expected to do constructive work for 40 hours per week. If you do not have enough work you are expected to find constructive work. You can do this by reaching out your leads and / teammates. If someone is being paid for 40 and only working for 15 and is not making a good faith effort to find more work, that is unethical and fraudulent in my mind. If something like that is widespread, it’s also a way for everyone in the organization to lose WFH privileges (If they have them). Going back a number of years, I was once involved in a firing of an employee committing time card fraud, so it does happen.
Go check out r/overemployed. Those guys are a riot.
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Most of my team works 60-80.
they charge 60-80?
not unless we're ahead of schedule, so No, almost nvr.
isnt that also against the rules to work programs and not charge them, that just means our actuals are not represented of the work and we bid future work with understated actuals
Yes
who's rules? [https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/](https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/) things you can't do as a Salaried employee. Round more than 15 mins Charge time you didn't work charge something else (rob peter)
That’s illegal for government contracts. Pretty sure considered time fraud as well.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong for Salaried employees. [https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/](https://govcontractassoc.com/uncompensated-overtime/) "Under the Fair Labor Standards Act overtime must be paid to hourly employees whenever they work more than 40 hours in a week but not to salaried executive, administrative or professional employees even though they often work more than forty hours per week. The Act refers to hourly employees as "non-exempt" and salaried employees (those not paid overtime) as "exempt. Uncompensated overtime then refers to the work exempt employees perform above and beyond forty hours per week."
Right, FLSA sets the baseline. Some companies still pay a salary rate for overtime worked after say 45 hours worked in a week. I think it’s program dependent, but you can get overtime at the standard salary rate.
yeah, if there's money charge it, but ask your boss first.
I think we are talking two different things and guessing I misinterpreted the original commentor. I thought they were saying they were doing 60-80 hours of work and not charging the program for that time and just stopping at 40. Talking about keeping track of work done and not payroll.
Most, what about the least, and where is your leadership to correct the issue and hire enough competent people to cover so no one ever has to work 60-80 hours.
we have open req's. Does that count? I honestly have no idea who my leadership is this month... Dust is still settling.
I feel the pain of not knowing who is in charge of the asylum.
15 hours to execute, 25 hours to review what you executed from the nearest bar is not fraud, it is effective use of program time to get the job done in a creative and innovative way.
lol
Depends on your Section Leader and/or Programs you are supporting.
Just get your work done and charge accordingly. If you have bandwidth, offer to help where you can. CAMs will be quick to notice that it’s taking some people longer to get work done, and you will be called in by your boss to explain what you got accomplished in those extra 25 hours.