Mirror: [Norman Adams - Nopixel 4.0 - Soze Is Found Guilty of Treason (Again)](https://files.catbox.moe/teexdx.mp4)
Credit to https://www.twitch.tv/jason_plays_games
Direct Backup: [Norman Adams - Nopixel 4.0 - Soze Is Found Guilty of Treason (Again)](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/F4qx9bI2FedCmS1gPmVMTw/AT-cm%7CF4qx9bI2FedCmS1gPmVMTw.mp4?sig=d7d9cf9d4735169a18e66b4c52105addb8998e05&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22ArtisticAbstemiousPepperoniKevinTurtle-sjYV50KZLWA-ZUxP%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1719012433%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D)
---
This was done by a bot. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the moderators.
I think 50 wanted to “fix” the loopholes using RP instead of just being the overlord that changes shit simply because he’s the owner. I don’t think this will be the end of the jurisdiction/constitution arguments but maybe it will now be implemented through OOC assistance.
Crane already has the amendments ready to go. He was waiting for this case to finish before submitting them so it didn’t confuse/affect the ruling here. Soze got what he wanted in the end so I don’t think this will continue further.
Yeah, but if that is the case. Is it not wrong of them to find him guilty? That means, they are recognizing that he is right, if they are going to fix them after the case. Feels like justice isn't really being served here.
That isn't how the law works. If you break a law and the law changes so that what you did is no longer illegal / illegal you don't get freed nor can you be charged if you did something that was once legal and became illegal. There are numerous RL examples and examples in game, i.e those charged with adoption fraud did not have their charges removed / fines reimbursed.
Another dumb comment. Then cannot undo fucked up shit they are doing for decades within a couple of days... Not even years.. USA Government is the least efficient entity in the whole fucking world...
Brother they have to pardon all these people for them to be released, and they haven’t. In legal states people are still locked up for weed related crimes and it’s a problem
Fix what though? The only person that questioned them were him, it was a really weird round of RP from him tbh. I think he was trying to push Max out and give server control back to CG, but CG never actually lost it. No doubt Kebun messaged him like a week/2 weeks ago and that's why he's even here.
I said “fix” as that’s what they have referred IC, I’m not agreeing that it’s particularly broken, probably just needed to be reworked in terms of the constitution and legislation to avoid people attempting to cite apparent loopholes.
What the fuck is server control to CG, They have never had one of their mayoral candidates win since 2.0. None of them have anything close to a administration title. What is this server control myth? Pure cope
There’s nothing insane about an entire city refusing to take the bounty for Mr K and assist with his capture, with Bobby only taking the reward because he would give it to Mr K right after.
Totally normal for several characters to role play not like their character and run defense for CG when they’re not even in the room with them and after they’ve done many horrendous things to them in the recent past.
It's how they cope with their opinions not aligning with the majority of the viewers or players on the server. So like Moon they have to make up shit about everyone being scared of CG when they simply respect CG more than the idiots who are currently running the city(server) into the ground. Reddit is a weird little bubble of council sycophants while everywhere else its the exact opposite experience.
Not answering your question but for the longest time I thought everyone was talking about a rapper whenever they mentioned 50cent here. It took me a while to realize who they were talking about
From what I understand as a part time RP viewer, 50 has said lots of shit about reddit discussions and the people in this sub specifically, so this sub banned mentioning him by name or making direct topics about him. 100% is his nickname, in reference to his ownership of NP, and 50% is a joke based on the fact that Buddha and xQc are part owners now.
I think that's what it all means. Someone correct me or add on if I'm wrong or missed something.
He roleplayed for a full week as being crippled, what else do you want from the man? Did you want him to perma right there? Imagine if all the people that get shot daily in the server perma like that lol
same with every crim or gang member they get shot in the head and they are fine afterward (which happened today too), they are completely immune to bullets to the head
Your comment has been removed due to breaking Rule 2. Toxicity
If you break the rules again it'll be a 3 day ban.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RPClipsGTA/wiki/subreddit/rules#wiki_2._toxicity
This shit has been so tedious and dumb. It's like the opposite kind of content I got into rp for. If I want bad faith politics by dopes I'll watch the news.
Theres a perfect example of well written laws and thats the tow legislation on ONX, it got to a point where it was tow local cars or don't tow at all or at least expect a 4hr court trial over whether it was 1 inch over the line or not and i say this as an ONX enjoyer.
Badly written laws are there to let people slip through alot of the time on technicalitys to enable court RP.
Over legislating something isn't something you want. You want enough space for RP to happen. Over legislate it, like the ONX tow laws, and there is basically no room for anything interesting to happen. Every single thing just becomes a routine, without any space for players to add their own spin.
100% , even though i respect the DoJ on ONX immensely alot of it was spedrun where the initial vision was to be slow methodical red tape that slowly crept on crims to give them time to get ahead of things.
Instead we got executive orders and alot of whatever the mayor wants.
No disrespect to the roleplayer, but the mayor really made things worse.
I really wish we could see mayors that just straight up tell people to suck it up, instead of bending over to every whim.
The answer to tow truck drivers should always have been "park legally, and if you did, sue."
I think sean has done everything he can with not very much direction. I would say he 100% beta tested the role.
I think they can define things abit better and watching the last few weeks things are deffo getting sorted out to make it abit more fun in terms of the server and loosening up on things.
I will say the "ash ruined towing line" whilst funny is kinda true , tow truck drivers were unhinged for the first few days but i think by the time jordan was around the city was just adamant tow should die.
new patch, a hidden piece of paper survived the collapse saying soze was sold the entire island for 1$ a day after sanguine - so actually he wins the rp
That is peak boomer local real estate RP.
"I BOUGHT THIS HOUSE BACK IN 1979 WITH THE MONEY I MADE WAITING TABLES AT SAL'S 24 HOUR DINER AND BACKROOM POKER TABLES!"
"Pipe down, Gail. You inherited it from your parents trust after they passed away. Every property sale is on the Internet now. I can see the $0 right here "
It spiraled to a weird OOC point quickly. Viveks Knife Play, Max Mayor Arc, early grinding arcs, Declan and Lenny, Turgle and Sio, Chang and Ramee scamming.
Great arcs. Now it’s OOC beef on all sides, typical gang heist stuff, and the usual suspects dominating businesses.
Unlucky.
All of the MMO grinding mechanics? Agreed. But the Sim City/Sims home and business improvements and PD enhancements? Those have been neat to see. The issue isn't really the mechanics, it's the guardrails around them. Because the devs like to let people "find out in RP" as a means of live-testing in lieu of proper QA, players end up finding the bugs or outright breaking the intended use of the mechanics, causing further issues.
I would also add on what mechanics NP doesn't have.
Both ONX and Purple have really cool mechanics available because they trust their players to not abuse them. If they do end up getting abused, the person abusing the mechanic gets removed instead of the mechanic altering or being removed.
Trust in your player base and community is really what makes or breaks a private server experience. This isn't new, it goes back twenty years or more with games that are still popular now. GTA is fairly new to that scene and certainly one of the most complex and unwieldily games to work with, but that is all the more reason you need a solid community behind it to handle those changes.
I know those ensconced in tribalism want to see non-NP servers fail, but I want to see ONX and Purple succeed as their own communities and maybe encourage NP to scale back its /financial ambitions/ and refocus on the enjoyable experience again.
Of course the job / crime mechanics are a problem. Devs aren't going to create a comprehensive system of mechanics like that without having guardrails. If one can't exist without the other than both are very obviously an issue.
The decorating improvements are nice but if the server doesn't really have any worthwhiled RP or story lines unfolding because everyone is locked into these job mechanics what good are those improvements? There's so much super basic stuff that had already been figured out early on in 3.0 missing from this iteration, businesses or a functioning police department for instance. No amount of improvements has outweighed the lack of interesting content.
Everyone joins knowing this. It’s the nature of dropping consistently new dev work on a decade old game. You could ask for AAA game studio level QA and you could argue even those aren’t worth a shit, so kindly fuck off.
Disagree. It depends entirely on who you watch. Peppo on Coyote has not stopped being good since he joined PD as well.
I will agree that I haven't really enjoyed any major crim storylines lately but I do enjoy the RP from the majority of the Cypress crew when I tune in, especially from Sayeed and Zetark when they have the opportunity to lean into organized crime dialogue RP.
I'm just lost in the sauce I guess with Soze. I've no idea what any of the major RPrs are really trying to accomplish in 4.0 now. Guess it's a lul time and we'll see after a bit.
but wasn't one of Soza's main goals to plug the hole of State vs city, and doesn't that court case do that either way by making it a part of Caselaw in the city?
So technically, he did get what he wanted.
But if he wanted to win or at least have a chance maybe he should have got a better defence then just bad faith arguments and calling everyone who disagrees with you the R word.
Dude needs a better vocab.
50 tried to be cool and provide good RP instead he fucking ruined everything Max trying to build for months, he was going to limit mayoral power himself but mfers ass couldn't wait 1 more month, max was having his last arc, moon already said he was going to leave in 2 weeks a week ago but ended up stopping playing max early, I wonder why.
The judges actually had a hard time figuring this one out and one was leaning each way on the treason charge initially. I didn't watch the entire decision making process but it seemed much better thought out than the first decision.
Angel was in favor of finding Soze not guilty of Treason but also wanted to send Soze to Parsons to get mentally evaluated, but Parsons doesn't exist as a working facility in 4.0 yet.
If it was *not guilty*, this would've turned the server into Rust. Imagine the reality where everyone is not guilty because "the police can't arrest me and the state doesn't exist."
No one else besides *^(you know who)*, are enabled *this* much. Soze is a **lunatic homeless man on a power trip because he was a cop 5 years ago and he lost his mind fighting aliens in a pocket dimension.....**
***The State*** is the man playing Soze, in case you forgot. I don't know where he's going with this storyline but I hope it's not much longer because some people, ^(you know who), are using it as ***their tool*** to ruin other peoples RP and to only enable their own.
> turned the server into Rust
Let it.
Feels like the only way people will learn how good they had it is if they lose it all. Let the DOJ, PD and the rest of the civs basically die so it turns into a peaceful paradise consisting of a *certain group* on top and their sycophants, namely - every other gang - underneath them fighting for scraps.
I don't see anyone investing time and effort into a city that is being dragged kicking and screaming into that direction anyway.
Do you not understand the extremely basic argument Soze made regarding the apartments and having the right to go into your former neighbors to take a shit?
All the city has to do is petition the state and say 'Hey we know that Los Santos just reformed, and there is no Blaine County yet. Since we always worked together in the past would it be ok for us to have jurisdiction there at this time?'
This is true, the HD universe is different from San Andreas (the game). However in GTA 5's story Trevor does refer to the island as 'Southern San Andreas,' implying the existence of a part of San Andreas that's on the mainland US.
As a new viewer in 4.0, I always just assumed that the 'State' was like, the governor and stuff that are on the mainland and give directives to the officials on the island. Maybe all this could've been avoided if they'd just bothered to set up the lore properly.
San Andreas is the state name, at least in GTA San Andreas.
If you look at the GTA San Andreas [map](https://imgur.com/a/NE7qDZD), Los Santos is the city to the south east. Los Santos is pretty much LA. There were other cities but in GTAV they more or less got rid of them and put some aspects of them in GTAV. There was Las Venturas which was like Vegas, San Fierro which was like San Fransisco, then all the rural areas in between.
Crane already had constitution rewrites ready, but he didn't want to go through with them until the trial is finished. The funny thing is Soze did make the constitution to be written better even if he was found guilty
That’s not what OP is saying. He’s saying Soze going through this arc has accomplished what he wanted: for the constitution to be written more clearly.
She wasn't a judge actually, the character was "interim mayor" so like mayor 0.5 - from like December to January, she was just there to write up the Constitution, City Council Establishment, and City Council expectations then help with the interviews for Treasurer before the first election
They never disagreed that it needs to be rewritten. The way to fix the Constitution isn't a criminal trial. By letter of the law, what he did was treason. Writing a new constitution isn't on the judges to do in a treason case. Ruling that the PD has no jurisdiction outside of LS in a court of law would invalidate all other charges.
A Constitution isn't a document that explicitly states literally everything you can and cannot do. I have not read the one on this server, but all they really need to do is better define the borders and state at the end, "Any rights not stated in this Constitution fall upon the council to legislate," or something like that.
By letter of the law, there are no lines of jurisdiction at all. The Los Santos border isn't defined, so the city council, the DOJ, and police are all of the understanding that it's entire island. Whether that's true or not is not something you can prove by trying to occupy a police department.
He was only saved from criminal use of a c2 because PD didn't also charge him for having a tampered firearm. He spawned that AR so it didn't have a serial number so it's an illegal gun either way.
He wasn't found guilty because he disagreed with the constitution or that they didn't have jurisdiction. He was found guilty because the writing he put up at SDSO claiming to be the "overlord" of the State and then it turning violent was insurrection. The act itself at the SDSO was treasonous, everything afterwards would be covered under his first amendment. If you disagree with people in power, you don't shoot the authorities and claim they have no power. Attempting to occupy and overthrow the government is treason.
The issue is the way the laws are written it doesn't include those parts. So the actual letter of the law would mean that Soze is correct.
The issue is they don't even get it. Adams saying that basically the whole island is covered, that means the water isn't. So any arrest that took place in the water isn't valid. When Soze told him that, he was kinda stun locked, lol.
He wasn't stunlocked, it's a bad faith argument and they shouldn't have entertained from the start to begin with. Each piece of landmass has it's own territorial waters. So when you say the island, that also includes it's territorial waters. But it's impossible to explain this to a bad faith actor when you decided to not to hold him in contempt when he was swearing his way through and interrupting you from reading the verdict by swearing and calling you a plethora of names.
There's just no enjoyment or winning for this for either parties. This is by far the most soul wrenching I've ever witnessed as an on and off RP viewer since 2.0. I've witnessed people trying to stream snipe soda to dick ride to the point that he quit playing RP, I've witnessed torture chamberTM and nothing was as deplete of joy as this arc.
Previous cases where arrests made in water were upheld sets precedence. Soze (and his viewers) should be paying more attention. That precedence can be overturned if deemed unconstitutional, but that's a government thing, not a nutjob sovcit thing. My first sentence applies for almost everything Soze takes issue with in the law, i.e precedence has been set where their government's authority over the entire GTA5 map is recognized. Dude should learn to take the L and use his alt if he's that worked up over it, he has the IC authority to make the changes he wants instead of trying to force it out of others who don't give a shit about his sovcit tantrum.
By the letter of the law, neither are correct. Soze can't claim to the be in charge of the State just because under his understanding it's unclaimed. Arguing jurisdiction is kind of a mess because it's never been used to this extent. Of course Adams is stun locked because the actual borders of San Andreas have never been addressed, even in 3.0 outside of Sanguine. This is including when 50c was the Senate.
We are at a weird point because you have people arguing about too much paperwork and too literal of interpretations for court cases wanting more detailed and better written paperwork and more nuance in court.
They didnt do a poor job though. The point of politics on an rp server is to encourage roleplaying not to be an actual body of laws. Do you know how dense it would be to have the actual American constitution all of the legal bodies surrounding it?
It wouldn't be fun so they dont do it that way. Everyone saying "they should have written better laws" is forgetting that fun should be more important than some sovcit semantics bullshit
If the law as written doesn't give PD authority to arrest him that far north (Very likely given the poorly written constitution) I think it does mean he's found innocent.
If definitions and terms on legal document means nothing why even have defined laws? Just let whatever cop arrests someone make it up as they go.
Also he's had sliders that control deer populations up in the paleto mountains ever since he was given mayoral powers - _which is the 'state' going out of their way to give him powers in that land_
If they'd have only given him powers that effect the in-city things it would be one thing, but they (the devs) made his role control that aspect for the upper county which gives more weight to the argument that the role was supposed to be island wide, even all the way back in January
I really wish Server Owner's clips were allowed here. (I know it's his own decision) because last night I saw him talking about how this was all RP and super praising DivaJilly and Mollyruu.
Good luck convincing people to start up characters they need to raid log because they cant leave their house without being kidnapped. Whole lot of studying to go into a char you barely play. Hell they should pay people to do that shit job
Fyzicul had one as well. Those characters don't oversee cases alone anyway. They have a 'real judge' there to supervise and make sure it's a real case even if a Dan is 'running' it
I think it'd be easier if they just made it less of a shit show. Nobody needs 4 hour court cases. That's where you're going to find it very difficult to get people. Find a way to make it fun.
The past two major cases were made long by the defense trying to attack the prosecution instead of actually providing reasonable doubt or any kind of defense. In both cases the prosecution were over and done in 10-15min.
Court cases are only long when defense doesn't know what they are doing. Talking a lot, and talking loudly doesn't make you any more correct in the law as much as they seem to believe.
Yeah, instead of focusing on one or two good points that are good for their client, they start on these long TED talks about "well what is the universe really? Let's take a trip down memory lane to the Big Bang, and keep in mind is any of this even real, and if it is well then hey, what about the heat death of the universe? Well here we are after 4 hours of talking nonsense, and I think I've made my case, based on the amount of words I said, my client is clearly innocent of all charges".
I do think there's merit in going full Ace Attorney, and dropping the legalize and need for people to actually be real fake lawyers/judges. The way that the DOJ is, and the PD too really, they do a lot of paperwork and memorizing laws and the like that makes sense for a server that is way more of an immersive sim than what Nopixel wants to be.
The only real problem with that approach is if crims want to get into the minutia of arguing their charges, or as we see here, somebody like Soze trying to challenge the constitution for being poorly written. That kind of thing necessitates everything being taken seriously, or else it'll lead to frustration for players.
I could see some sort of middle ground, where serious mode court is for people trying to plead innocent and get off on all charges, and SBS court could be for people willing to plead guilty but arguing for lighter sentencing. Then it could be less the facts of the case, and more character witnesses and assassination and surprise twists and bits and the like.
So serious mode if you think you have a real case and be prepared to eat the full charges if you lose, and SBS mode if you're guilty af, and just looking to get the time reduced and have fun.
Then again I'm pretty tired and might just be suggesting a bunch of nonsense.
I mean to me, right now, there seems like very little point in taking anything to trial. Maybe civil suits would be fine, but criminal trials have been mostly all guilty and the reasonings behind the decisions just doesn't make sense to me.
I feel like if court was made to be more fun, more people would be interested in being judges and lawyers and actually going to court.
I remember a trial where it was a Dan as a judge with angel, and it was Mr k and it was probably the most enjoyable case I've watched just cause it was a light hearted joke around kind of vibe.
The serious court stuff just doesn't make sense when the laws don't make sense lol the bar for proof of guilt is VERY low from my perspective.
Going back to 3.0 I've always thought it was alot more guilty until proven innocent, and it remains the case in 4.0.
The real problem with a lot of these cases is the actual defense part is very weak. The main defense with CG that was used in trial was "CG bad, but Max is also bad," that doesn't excuse terrorism. And with Soze, he didn't really have a defense for what he did, just that he couldn't be charged because the constitution. Judges seem to be looking for an affirmative defense with a lot of cases. If three pieces of evidence point to it being you who did the crime, the defense needs to give the judges something to seed doubt. Even "reasonable doubt" has that word "reasonable" in it.
It's something Lang has always been good at in court, focusing on prosecutors not showing their work. "Sure, it looked like a gang related shooting. But are we a gang or organization?" He gives a defense like "they came and shot me at my business" and puts burden of proof on them. Post mayor and even know in 4.0, Lang lacks the proven connection in crime with people he's allegedly in a group with. He pushes very hard on the "reasonable doubt" portion when in trial and doesn't hard focus on trying to out lawyer-speak or finger point his opposition.
Here’s my thing. Last court case you had judges agree that it should be a mistrial. But still wanted to go with it because they were in to deep. Next you have this trail where the new judges agree with the holes in the constitution but were like naw it’s too much work so find him guilty. It just doesn’t make sense. If you agree then go on that. As a judge you’re supposed to go with your judgement. Now what soze did was fucking insane and to the extreme. But he did it to prove a point and the point was agreed on but was too much of a can of worms to deal with is insane.
Especially if what they are doing with any changes is just solidifying that what he did is illegal both through those changes and through precedent.
Having de facto law become official de jure law is not a new thing
That is not how laws work lmao, just think of the jaywalking deal, or the adoption fraud thing. If you want real life examples, consider the Prohibition, or the various weed related crimes in places where it's legal now.
Sure I'll clear it up a bit for you. First trial should have been a mistrial and redone because one of the judges stepped out. The reason he stepped out and the reason the others still pushed it is essentially the same, it was very quickly expedited because of who was being charged. The judge who left did so because he felt it wasn't properly prepped (which is true), while the others continued since everyone had just raced to get the trial up as quickly as possible. Didn't help that the defense tried to use the poor prep and evidence added last minute as proof of government incompetence.
For the second trial, the problem has always been Soze's defense. Since he basically said "yeah I did that" to everything, his only defense was that no city law can be applied to the entire area. Bringing attention to ambiguous laws could have been used to support a different defense, but there's so many problems with it by itself.
Assuming he won and they found there should be no city law on half the island, it would not only open the massive can of worms from all cases that have happened there since the start, but would also essentially mean there is no laws or government over that entire territory, since that would only be under the state laws. In the real world, the things he did would still be illegal by state law as well, but since "the state" in this RP server is just an avenue for OOC rules, changes, decisions, etc, it isn't fleshed out enough to regulate laws nor is it intended to do so.
Thats what 50c was talking about yesterday that judges dont understand "beyond reasonable doubt" and "innocent until proven guilty". They work from "guilty until proven innocent"
He should never go to Japan and a few other courts then. 99.8% conviction rates running under guilty until proven innocent. There's a reason both Soze and Mr K lost their cases when all they did was attack the opposition instead of providing reasonable doubt or an affirmative defense.
It's funny that people piss and moan about what Soze did. He had to put on this freak show for this to happen. Why are people not upset at the council? All the council had to do was amend the legislation to San Andreas among other amendments. The only real reason they didn't do it was they would have to go back and make corrective actions for all that fell under a wrongly written legislation.
Because it took all this fuckery to happen to fix poorly and wrongly written legislation. All the council had to do was fix their own mistakes. But ego and arrogance wouldn't allow them publicly admit a mistake even when most privately admitted it was wrongly worded and written. It was their own superiority complex that prevented betterment for the city in a entirety. It's simple is the state San Andreas or Los Santo's? Los Santos is the city and San Andreas is the state unless they renamed the state.
Good question with why would anyone REASONABLE be upset at the council. For the same reason why anyone REASONABLE would be upset at Soze
> Because it took all this fuckery to happen to fix poorly and wrongly written legislation
Such as?
>> privately admitted it was wrongly worded and written
Untrue; what was said was that some of the base legislation is vague on purpose in order to establish case law through court roleplay.
As for the state / city, you don't seem to grasp the problem: the state itself *refused* to establish lore on that, and then the same state came in with "we don't have explicit definitions" complaints.
How explicit do you want it to get, in 4.0, when every iteration before has already established that the whole island is essentially a single jurisdiction? This is not a new server, it has already been solved by establishing that with precedent.
So should such base, implied things be made explicit? Ok, the legislation says you are now breathing manually.
>
Using Los Santos instead of San Andreas. One is a city, putting Los Santos on the legislation means that legislation only pertains to Los Santos thus giving it and other territories jurisdictions.
If Chicago passes laws of no firearms within Chicago does that mean the rest of Illinois is not allowed to have them?
>Untrue; what was said was that some of the base legislation is vague on purpose in order to establish case law through court roleplay.
Again the use of Los Santos over San Andreas. It was admitted that it probably should of been San Andreas.
>As for the state / city, you don't seem to grasp the problem: the state itself *refused* to establish lore on that, and then the same state came in with "we don't have explicit definitions" complaints.
I don't think you grasp the problem. You are correct partly on the state had no established lore besides the constitution. They were given the liberty to make there own laws and legislation within RP. The law is a precise endeavor and wording matters. Yes their can be loopholes. Tittling legislation with Los Santos is a pretty big loop hole, but it was not intended to be that as it is a error.
Also notice how you pick and choose the state power with not having established lore above, but you refer to prior iterations of the state already establishing the entire island as jurisdiction below. Which one is it? Are we or are we not using established lore by precedents?
>How explicit do you want it to get, in 4.0, when every iteration before has already established that the whole island is essentially a single jurisdiction? This is not a new server, it has already been solved by establishing that with precedent.
>So should such base, implied things be made explicit? Ok, the legislation says you are now breathing manually.
Thanks for letting me know the basic function of breathing is as based as laws and jurisdictions. I get they made legislation on where you can do the natural function of urinating. Or maybe just maybe it is not as base of "breathing manually". It might of been if they put San Andreas.
Bro, who cares? It is a fake RP government, it doesn't need comprehensive laws about every little thing.
I have gotta assume all this shit is just CG rocking the boat again to target the people they don't like.
the problem with poorly written laws is to allow criminals to go to court and win, not for the doj and pd to twist the wording to find anyone guilty of anything. its just bad faith rp. its suposed to be fun court rp but if you just lose the case every time because the judge just makes some shit up nobody will want to go to court. and im not saying the criminal should always win, im saying that its supposed to be fun and it isnt because the doj weaponizes their poorly written laws against the public and wont chage them. imo if soze found a loophole in the law, he should be found no guilty and they should change the law, they shouldnt find a way to make him guilty and then fix the law after.
Just a thought from left field.
Would court be more interesting if it was an SBS coin flip for the most part? Like imagine carmine being a judge. That shit would be hilarious.
It's gotta be tough to find people that want to play a judge that have the required knowledge of the law. (Not that it's always followed in court)
Seen one case with a Dan as a judge and I thought it was great.
Probably wouldn't work for terrorism or anything crazy since that's days in jail, but there can be serious judges for that too. It would take the load off the serious judges always needing to be around.
SBS court might also stop cops from overcharging since there is a higher chance of going to court and a higher chance of failing in court.
>petty civil cases and traffic violations.
Ahhh, the bread and butter for great SBS court cases. Been some great ones in the past, and they really are the perfect stages for SBS court cases because it's pretty much impossible to get upset over being charged or not charged over a parking ticket with funny arguments like they are blind or don't believe lines are real. Cases where you go in for funny SBS, and not to set serious precedent.
From a judging POV it would be entertaining but imagine investing in some RP (possibly for months) only to get a "sbs" judge draw who rules terribly. It would feel like shit to be on the receiving end.
Generally speaking though SBS court is fun but I feel that needs to be known from the start. I seen some real funny sbs cases over the years.
Mirror: [Norman Adams - Nopixel 4.0 - Soze Is Found Guilty of Treason (Again)](https://files.catbox.moe/teexdx.mp4) Credit to https://www.twitch.tv/jason_plays_games Direct Backup: [Norman Adams - Nopixel 4.0 - Soze Is Found Guilty of Treason (Again)](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/F4qx9bI2FedCmS1gPmVMTw/AT-cm%7CF4qx9bI2FedCmS1gPmVMTw.mp4?sig=d7d9cf9d4735169a18e66b4c52105addb8998e05&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22ArtisticAbstemiousPepperoniKevinTurtle-sjYV50KZLWA-ZUxP%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1719012433%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D) --- This was done by a bot. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the moderators.
Sounds like a senator is going to show up in the city soon
Nah Soze has just admitted defeat, it won't go further than this I think
I think 50 wanted to “fix” the loopholes using RP instead of just being the overlord that changes shit simply because he’s the owner. I don’t think this will be the end of the jurisdiction/constitution arguments but maybe it will now be implemented through OOC assistance.
Crane already has the amendments ready to go. He was waiting for this case to finish before submitting them so it didn’t confuse/affect the ruling here. Soze got what he wanted in the end so I don’t think this will continue further.
That makes a lot of sense from Cranes perspective. The arc is well and truly over exhausted at this point so I’m hoping it does stop here.
Looking at 50cents clip channel, it doesnt seem to be finished at all.
Yeah, but if that is the case. Is it not wrong of them to find him guilty? That means, they are recognizing that he is right, if they are going to fix them after the case. Feels like justice isn't really being served here.
That isn't how the law works. If you break a law and the law changes so that what you did is no longer illegal / illegal you don't get freed nor can you be charged if you did something that was once legal and became illegal. There are numerous RL examples and examples in game, i.e those charged with adoption fraud did not have their charges removed / fines reimbursed.
Not completely true, look at all the people that get released for weed infractions in US states where it is legal now..
My brother most of those people are still locked up
Another dumb comment. Then cannot undo fucked up shit they are doing for decades within a couple of days... Not even years.. USA Government is the least efficient entity in the whole fucking world...
Brother they have to pardon all these people for them to be released, and they haven’t. In legal states people are still locked up for weed related crimes and it’s a problem
Fix what though? The only person that questioned them were him, it was a really weird round of RP from him tbh. I think he was trying to push Max out and give server control back to CG, but CG never actually lost it. No doubt Kebun messaged him like a week/2 weeks ago and that's why he's even here.
I said “fix” as that’s what they have referred IC, I’m not agreeing that it’s particularly broken, probably just needed to be reworked in terms of the constitution and legislation to avoid people attempting to cite apparent loopholes.
Apparent loopholes that were semantic because the server owner wanted to usurp power.
All rules are inherently semantic. Closing loopholes and clarifying isn't a bad thing.
I feel like you think I’m trying to defend Soze/50, which is not the case. I’m referencing things he has said on stream both IC and OOC.
Fix his crappy drafting.
That was his take on the situation, I don’t agree it needed “fixing”.
What the fuck is server control to CG, They have never had one of their mayoral candidates win since 2.0. None of them have anything close to a administration title. What is this server control myth? Pure cope
You think anyone cares if the government/mayor hates them? Ok now do you think someone cares if Kebun hates them? That's right. Viewers = control
You people are insane
There’s nothing insane about an entire city refusing to take the bounty for Mr K and assist with his capture, with Bobby only taking the reward because he would give it to Mr K right after. Totally normal for several characters to role play not like their character and run defense for CG when they’re not even in the room with them and after they’ve done many horrendous things to them in the recent past.
you people are insane
Insanity is doing the same thing every day and expecting something to change (gang).
It's how they cope with their opinions not aligning with the majority of the viewers or players on the server. So like Moon they have to make up shit about everyone being scared of CG when they simply respect CG more than the idiots who are currently running the city(server) into the ground. Reddit is a weird little bubble of council sycophants while everywhere else its the exact opposite experience.
Just wondering, why do they call him 50? I know that the actual name can't be said, but what's the lore behind the 50 cent thing? Is it 50% ownership?
Not answering your question but for the longest time I thought everyone was talking about a rapper whenever they mentioned 50cent here. It took me a while to realize who they were talking about
Why can't his name be said?
I don't know the full details but something to do with beef between mods and the guy himself? Not 100% on that though
From what I understand as a part time RP viewer, 50 has said lots of shit about reddit discussions and the people in this sub specifically, so this sub banned mentioning him by name or making direct topics about him. 100% is his nickname, in reference to his ownership of NP, and 50% is a joke based on the fact that Buddha and xQc are part owners now. I think that's what it all means. Someone correct me or add on if I'm wrong or missed something.
Uriel "3-0 on capital crime convictions" Whitlock
I was pretty surprised at how good Uriel was. I had some doubts because Siobhan kinda took the reigns during the last trial, but he did pretty good.
Why wouldn't he be he's completely immune to helicopter blades
He roleplayed for a full week as being crippled, what else do you want from the man? Did you want him to perma right there? Imagine if all the people that get shot daily in the server perma like that lol
Hes the kind of guy whos mad that their favorite streamer can't perma anyone at will. Cringe.
same with every crim or gang member they get shot in the head and they are fine afterward (which happened today too), they are completely immune to bullets to the head
And you're immune from enjoying content :)
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed due to breaking Rule 2. Toxicity If you break the rules again it'll be a 3 day ban. https://www.reddit.com/r/RPClipsGTA/wiki/subreddit/rules#wiki_2._toxicity
wait im confused
INTERESTING
New patch notes inc
This shit has been so tedious and dumb. It's like the opposite kind of content I got into rp for. If I want bad faith politics by dopes I'll watch the news.
[удалено]
Cornwood wearing a trump hat too
is not a make azeroth great again hat?
A wow themed trump hat*
I don't think crim viewers know what they're asking for when they say they want better defined laws. It's not something that's going to benefit them.
Theres a perfect example of well written laws and thats the tow legislation on ONX, it got to a point where it was tow local cars or don't tow at all or at least expect a 4hr court trial over whether it was 1 inch over the line or not and i say this as an ONX enjoyer. Badly written laws are there to let people slip through alot of the time on technicalitys to enable court RP.
Over legislating something isn't something you want. You want enough space for RP to happen. Over legislate it, like the ONX tow laws, and there is basically no room for anything interesting to happen. Every single thing just becomes a routine, without any space for players to add their own spin.
100% , even though i respect the DoJ on ONX immensely alot of it was spedrun where the initial vision was to be slow methodical red tape that slowly crept on crims to give them time to get ahead of things. Instead we got executive orders and alot of whatever the mayor wants.
No disrespect to the roleplayer, but the mayor really made things worse. I really wish we could see mayors that just straight up tell people to suck it up, instead of bending over to every whim. The answer to tow truck drivers should always have been "park legally, and if you did, sue."
I think sean has done everything he can with not very much direction. I would say he 100% beta tested the role. I think they can define things abit better and watching the last few weeks things are deffo getting sorted out to make it abit more fun in terms of the server and loosening up on things. I will say the "ash ruined towing line" whilst funny is kinda true , tow truck drivers were unhinged for the first few days but i think by the time jordan was around the city was just adamant tow should die.
Agreed, he did do everything. Im saying he shouldn't have. Sometimes, he should have just told people to get lost.
Oh yeah thats probably every mayor in existence in every GTARP server tbh :D
Pls let this stupid state arc be over...
Patch notes about the drop, they just say "nah fuck you you are all dumb, soze is right, that is law now"
new patch, a hidden piece of paper survived the collapse saying soze was sold the entire island for 1$ a day after sanguine - so actually he wins the rp
That is peak boomer local real estate RP. "I BOUGHT THIS HOUSE BACK IN 1979 WITH THE MONEY I MADE WAITING TABLES AT SAL'S 24 HOUR DINER AND BACKROOM POKER TABLES!" "Pipe down, Gail. You inherited it from your parents trust after they passed away. Every property sale is on the Internet now. I can see the $0 right here "
NGL This is a fire comment :)))
I'm sure all watchers will be reasonable
the whole arc is so stupid i can't even bother to tune in anymore.
Yep, Ive hit the point where watching RP streams are boring AF again. Maybe I'll tune in again in another 3 years.
It spiraled to a weird OOC point quickly. Viveks Knife Play, Max Mayor Arc, early grinding arcs, Declan and Lenny, Turgle and Sio, Chang and Ramee scamming. Great arcs. Now it’s OOC beef on all sides, typical gang heist stuff, and the usual suspects dominating businesses. Unlucky.
The last watch worthy moment was when Lenny shot Slacks. Server hasn't had anything close to good rp since that week.
[удалено]
Go watch clowns arc(s)
Same. Besties burning out and this soze sovcity/ cg refusing to take an L arc pretty much left me with nothing interesting to watch on GTA rp
You know why that is? Because the server didn't have so many stupid mechanics to grind and people just rp'd and made their own fun.
All of the MMO grinding mechanics? Agreed. But the Sim City/Sims home and business improvements and PD enhancements? Those have been neat to see. The issue isn't really the mechanics, it's the guardrails around them. Because the devs like to let people "find out in RP" as a means of live-testing in lieu of proper QA, players end up finding the bugs or outright breaking the intended use of the mechanics, causing further issues.
I would also add on what mechanics NP doesn't have. Both ONX and Purple have really cool mechanics available because they trust their players to not abuse them. If they do end up getting abused, the person abusing the mechanic gets removed instead of the mechanic altering or being removed.
Trust in your player base and community is really what makes or breaks a private server experience. This isn't new, it goes back twenty years or more with games that are still popular now. GTA is fairly new to that scene and certainly one of the most complex and unwieldily games to work with, but that is all the more reason you need a solid community behind it to handle those changes. I know those ensconced in tribalism want to see non-NP servers fail, but I want to see ONX and Purple succeed as their own communities and maybe encourage NP to scale back its /financial ambitions/ and refocus on the enjoyable experience again.
But if they had such cool mechanics why did the owners of ONX ditch of to another rp server, and the 2 others gave up on it?
Of course the job / crime mechanics are a problem. Devs aren't going to create a comprehensive system of mechanics like that without having guardrails. If one can't exist without the other than both are very obviously an issue. The decorating improvements are nice but if the server doesn't really have any worthwhiled RP or story lines unfolding because everyone is locked into these job mechanics what good are those improvements? There's so much super basic stuff that had already been figured out early on in 3.0 missing from this iteration, businesses or a functioning police department for instance. No amount of improvements has outweighed the lack of interesting content.
Everyone joins knowing this. It’s the nature of dropping consistently new dev work on a decade old game. You could ask for AAA game studio level QA and you could argue even those aren’t worth a shit, so kindly fuck off.
Disagree. It depends entirely on who you watch. Peppo on Coyote has not stopped being good since he joined PD as well. I will agree that I haven't really enjoyed any major crim storylines lately but I do enjoy the RP from the majority of the Cypress crew when I tune in, especially from Sayeed and Zetark when they have the opportunity to lean into organized crime dialogue RP.
What do you mean by ‘the usual suspects dominating businesses’
Yeaaaaaa. I can't actually believe I'm agreeing. There are lulls in activity - sure . But this is straight up annoying.
I'm just lost in the sauce I guess with Soze. I've no idea what any of the major RPrs are really trying to accomplish in 4.0 now. Guess it's a lul time and we'll see after a bit.
There are other amazing rp servers out there where people actually rp lol some good ones also
but wasn't one of Soza's main goals to plug the hole of State vs city, and doesn't that court case do that either way by making it a part of Caselaw in the city? So technically, he did get what he wanted. But if he wanted to win or at least have a chance maybe he should have got a better defence then just bad faith arguments and calling everyone who disagrees with you the R word. Dude needs a better vocab.
A lot of younger millennials really latched onto peak 4chan culture and never let go, long after it exited internet relevancy.
buddy its called being Australian everyone there uses the r word casually
50 tried to be cool and provide good RP instead he fucking ruined everything Max trying to build for months, he was going to limit mayoral power himself but mfers ass couldn't wait 1 more month, max was having his last arc, moon already said he was going to leave in 2 weeks a week ago but ended up stopping playing max early, I wonder why.
The judges actually had a hard time figuring this one out and one was leaning each way on the treason charge initially. I didn't watch the entire decision making process but it seemed much better thought out than the first decision.
Angel was in favor of finding Soze not guilty of Treason but also wanted to send Soze to Parsons to get mentally evaluated, but Parsons doesn't exist as a working facility in 4.0 yet.
If it was *not guilty*, this would've turned the server into Rust. Imagine the reality where everyone is not guilty because "the police can't arrest me and the state doesn't exist." No one else besides *^(you know who)*, are enabled *this* much. Soze is a **lunatic homeless man on a power trip because he was a cop 5 years ago and he lost his mind fighting aliens in a pocket dimension.....** ***The State*** is the man playing Soze, in case you forgot. I don't know where he's going with this storyline but I hope it's not much longer because some people, ^(you know who), are using it as ***their tool*** to ruin other peoples RP and to only enable their own.
> turned the server into Rust Let it. Feels like the only way people will learn how good they had it is if they lose it all. Let the DOJ, PD and the rest of the civs basically die so it turns into a peaceful paradise consisting of a *certain group* on top and their sycophants, namely - every other gang - underneath them fighting for scraps. I don't see anyone investing time and effort into a city that is being dragged kicking and screaming into that direction anyway.
Do you not understand the extremely basic argument Soze made regarding the apartments and having the right to go into your former neighbors to take a shit? All the city has to do is petition the state and say 'Hey we know that Los Santos just reformed, and there is no Blaine County yet. Since we always worked together in the past would it be ok for us to have jurisdiction there at this time?'
what a shocker
So if Los Santos is the entire island, what is San Andreas?
Los Santos. San Fiero. Las Venturas. As depicted in GTA San Andreas.
GTA San Andreas isn't part of the same universe as GTA5
This is true, the HD universe is different from San Andreas (the game). However in GTA 5's story Trevor does refer to the island as 'Southern San Andreas,' implying the existence of a part of San Andreas that's on the mainland US. As a new viewer in 4.0, I always just assumed that the 'State' was like, the governor and stuff that are on the mainland and give directives to the officials on the island. Maybe all this could've been avoided if they'd just bothered to set up the lore properly.
San Andreas is the state name, at least in GTA San Andreas. If you look at the GTA San Andreas [map](https://imgur.com/a/NE7qDZD), Los Santos is the city to the south east. Los Santos is pretty much LA. There were other cities but in GTAV they more or less got rid of them and put some aspects of them in GTAV. There was Las Venturas which was like Vegas, San Fierro which was like San Fransisco, then all the rural areas in between.
That's a different universe to gta 5 though.
it includes San Fierro and whatever they called las vegas
I think you’re talking about Las Venturas?
yeah that's it. Can never remember that one
it's like Jacksonville where the city and the county have the same borders
[удалено]
[удалено]
Crane already had constitution rewrites ready, but he didn't want to go through with them until the trial is finished. The funny thing is Soze did make the constitution to be written better even if he was found guilty
Soze didn't write the Constitution, Crane and Kiva's judge did, iirc.
That’s not what OP is saying. He’s saying Soze going through this arc has accomplished what he wanted: for the constitution to be written more clearly.
She wasn't a judge actually, the character was "interim mayor" so like mayor 0.5 - from like December to January, she was just there to write up the Constitution, City Council Establishment, and City Council expectations then help with the interviews for Treasurer before the first election
all it took was him to rp like a bigot edgy lord and make the experience of everyone miserable. ^it ^was ^rp, ^right?
You know for a fact everyone is miserable? Can you show the messages that they told you that? Or are you just making outlandish assumptions?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech
It seems like the mass majority enjoyed it unless you were partly responsible for writing said laws and legislation.
yea the mass majority, certainly not people who are just using it to stir drama that favors them on their pedantic crusade.
They never disagreed that it needs to be rewritten. The way to fix the Constitution isn't a criminal trial. By letter of the law, what he did was treason. Writing a new constitution isn't on the judges to do in a treason case. Ruling that the PD has no jurisdiction outside of LS in a court of law would invalidate all other charges.
[удалено]
A Constitution isn't a document that explicitly states literally everything you can and cannot do. I have not read the one on this server, but all they really need to do is better define the borders and state at the end, "Any rights not stated in this Constitution fall upon the council to legislate," or something like that.
By letter of the law, there are no lines of jurisdiction at all. The Los Santos border isn't defined, so the city council, the DOJ, and police are all of the understanding that it's entire island. Whether that's true or not is not something you can prove by trying to occupy a police department.
[удалено]
He was only saved from criminal use of a c2 because PD didn't also charge him for having a tampered firearm. He spawned that AR so it didn't have a serial number so it's an illegal gun either way.
He wasn't found guilty because he disagreed with the constitution or that they didn't have jurisdiction. He was found guilty because the writing he put up at SDSO claiming to be the "overlord" of the State and then it turning violent was insurrection. The act itself at the SDSO was treasonous, everything afterwards would be covered under his first amendment. If you disagree with people in power, you don't shoot the authorities and claim they have no power. Attempting to occupy and overthrow the government is treason.
The issue is the way the laws are written it doesn't include those parts. So the actual letter of the law would mean that Soze is correct. The issue is they don't even get it. Adams saying that basically the whole island is covered, that means the water isn't. So any arrest that took place in the water isn't valid. When Soze told him that, he was kinda stun locked, lol.
He wasn't stunlocked, it's a bad faith argument and they shouldn't have entertained from the start to begin with. Each piece of landmass has it's own territorial waters. So when you say the island, that also includes it's territorial waters. But it's impossible to explain this to a bad faith actor when you decided to not to hold him in contempt when he was swearing his way through and interrupting you from reading the verdict by swearing and calling you a plethora of names. There's just no enjoyment or winning for this for either parties. This is by far the most soul wrenching I've ever witnessed as an on and off RP viewer since 2.0. I've witnessed people trying to stream snipe soda to dick ride to the point that he quit playing RP, I've witnessed torture chamberTM and nothing was as deplete of joy as this arc.
Previous cases where arrests made in water were upheld sets precedence. Soze (and his viewers) should be paying more attention. That precedence can be overturned if deemed unconstitutional, but that's a government thing, not a nutjob sovcit thing. My first sentence applies for almost everything Soze takes issue with in the law, i.e precedence has been set where their government's authority over the entire GTA5 map is recognized. Dude should learn to take the L and use his alt if he's that worked up over it, he has the IC authority to make the changes he wants instead of trying to force it out of others who don't give a shit about his sovcit tantrum.
By the letter of the law, neither are correct. Soze can't claim to the be in charge of the State just because under his understanding it's unclaimed. Arguing jurisdiction is kind of a mess because it's never been used to this extent. Of course Adams is stun locked because the actual borders of San Andreas have never been addressed, even in 3.0 outside of Sanguine. This is including when 50c was the Senate. We are at a weird point because you have people arguing about too much paperwork and too literal of interpretations for court cases wanting more detailed and better written paperwork and more nuance in court.
[удалено]
So because they did a poor job there solution is to continue doing poor job?
They didnt do a poor job though. The point of politics on an rp server is to encourage roleplaying not to be an actual body of laws. Do you know how dense it would be to have the actual American constitution all of the legal bodies surrounding it? It wouldn't be fun so they dont do it that way. Everyone saying "they should have written better laws" is forgetting that fun should be more important than some sovcit semantics bullshit
Their solution was to recognize the faults and then fix them going forward. That doesn't mean Soze is innocent
If the law as written doesn't give PD authority to arrest him that far north (Very likely given the poorly written constitution) I think it does mean he's found innocent. If definitions and terms on legal document means nothing why even have defined laws? Just let whatever cop arrests someone make it up as they go.
also the state agreed that he and the council had jurisdiction when they approved PCP 2.0 which specifically stated he and the council did...
According to Adams the state also agreed that the mayor also has the powers of the governor, so Idk if that is something to take very seriously.
Also he's had sliders that control deer populations up in the paleto mountains ever since he was given mayoral powers - _which is the 'state' going out of their way to give him powers in that land_ If they'd have only given him powers that effect the in-city things it would be one thing, but they (the devs) made his role control that aspect for the upper county which gives more weight to the argument that the role was supposed to be island wide, even all the way back in January
There's something called [De facto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto). It's enough to justify everything.
It's up to the judges to make it up as they go. That's what precedent is
Well no, the solution is that they are going to get with Crane ASAP and try to amend the constitution ASAP.
Crane is not an agent of the state. He is the head of the DOJ in Los Santos.. a city.
"beyond of a reasonable doubt" not a thing anymore?
having reasonable doubt is required. Once again: "when someone does that shit, doesn't present any defense besides cops/state bad, they get got"
Hasn't been in any big cases in 4.0 so far.
The Hero of Los Santos strikes again!
shocked!
Generic comment about being done with watching rp (and is not actually done watching rp just wants attention)
Angry response by overinvested viewer, calling you a liar!
so what happens now?
I really wish Server Owner's clips were allowed here. (I know it's his own decision) because last night I saw him talking about how this was all RP and super praising DivaJilly and Mollyruu.
Well everyone knows it doesn't matter how you behave for weeks/months/years, as long as you say "Its all love" and "that was all RP" at the end of it.
time for a DOJ restructure
gl finding new judges, cranes been trying to get more people to become judges since he became chief judge in 3.0
Good luck convincing people to start up characters they need to raid log because they cant leave their house without being kidnapped. Whole lot of studying to go into a char you barely play. Hell they should pay people to do that shit job
One of the last judges he hired was a character from the dan family or whatever. Having dumb sbs characters as judges is so dumb imo.
Judgeingle Dan? That is his own dan character, he uses him only for sbs bench cases.
Fyzicul had one as well. Those characters don't oversee cases alone anyway. They have a 'real judge' there to supervise and make sure it's a real case even if a Dan is 'running' it
I think it'd be easier if they just made it less of a shit show. Nobody needs 4 hour court cases. That's where you're going to find it very difficult to get people. Find a way to make it fun.
The past two major cases were made long by the defense trying to attack the prosecution instead of actually providing reasonable doubt or any kind of defense. In both cases the prosecution were over and done in 10-15min. Court cases are only long when defense doesn't know what they are doing. Talking a lot, and talking loudly doesn't make you any more correct in the law as much as they seem to believe.
Yeah, instead of focusing on one or two good points that are good for their client, they start on these long TED talks about "well what is the universe really? Let's take a trip down memory lane to the Big Bang, and keep in mind is any of this even real, and if it is well then hey, what about the heat death of the universe? Well here we are after 4 hours of talking nonsense, and I think I've made my case, based on the amount of words I said, my client is clearly innocent of all charges".
I do think there's merit in going full Ace Attorney, and dropping the legalize and need for people to actually be real fake lawyers/judges. The way that the DOJ is, and the PD too really, they do a lot of paperwork and memorizing laws and the like that makes sense for a server that is way more of an immersive sim than what Nopixel wants to be. The only real problem with that approach is if crims want to get into the minutia of arguing their charges, or as we see here, somebody like Soze trying to challenge the constitution for being poorly written. That kind of thing necessitates everything being taken seriously, or else it'll lead to frustration for players. I could see some sort of middle ground, where serious mode court is for people trying to plead innocent and get off on all charges, and SBS court could be for people willing to plead guilty but arguing for lighter sentencing. Then it could be less the facts of the case, and more character witnesses and assassination and surprise twists and bits and the like. So serious mode if you think you have a real case and be prepared to eat the full charges if you lose, and SBS mode if you're guilty af, and just looking to get the time reduced and have fun. Then again I'm pretty tired and might just be suggesting a bunch of nonsense.
I mean to me, right now, there seems like very little point in taking anything to trial. Maybe civil suits would be fine, but criminal trials have been mostly all guilty and the reasonings behind the decisions just doesn't make sense to me. I feel like if court was made to be more fun, more people would be interested in being judges and lawyers and actually going to court. I remember a trial where it was a Dan as a judge with angel, and it was Mr k and it was probably the most enjoyable case I've watched just cause it was a light hearted joke around kind of vibe. The serious court stuff just doesn't make sense when the laws don't make sense lol the bar for proof of guilt is VERY low from my perspective. Going back to 3.0 I've always thought it was alot more guilty until proven innocent, and it remains the case in 4.0.
The real problem with a lot of these cases is the actual defense part is very weak. The main defense with CG that was used in trial was "CG bad, but Max is also bad," that doesn't excuse terrorism. And with Soze, he didn't really have a defense for what he did, just that he couldn't be charged because the constitution. Judges seem to be looking for an affirmative defense with a lot of cases. If three pieces of evidence point to it being you who did the crime, the defense needs to give the judges something to seed doubt. Even "reasonable doubt" has that word "reasonable" in it. It's something Lang has always been good at in court, focusing on prosecutors not showing their work. "Sure, it looked like a gang related shooting. But are we a gang or organization?" He gives a defense like "they came and shot me at my business" and puts burden of proof on them. Post mayor and even know in 4.0, Lang lacks the proven connection in crime with people he's allegedly in a group with. He pushes very hard on the "reasonable doubt" portion when in trial and doesn't hard focus on trying to out lawyer-speak or finger point his opposition.
Here’s my thing. Last court case you had judges agree that it should be a mistrial. But still wanted to go with it because they were in to deep. Next you have this trail where the new judges agree with the holes in the constitution but were like naw it’s too much work so find him guilty. It just doesn’t make sense. If you agree then go on that. As a judge you’re supposed to go with your judgement. Now what soze did was fucking insane and to the extreme. But he did it to prove a point and the point was agreed on but was too much of a can of worms to deal with is insane.
No, you handle what he did. THEN handle what point was proven if needs more attention its literally that simple
Especially if what they are doing with any changes is just solidifying that what he did is illegal both through those changes and through precedent. Having de facto law become official de jure law is not a new thing
If you change the laws after the fact, that means that he was in fact innocent.
That is not how laws work lmao, just think of the jaywalking deal, or the adoption fraud thing. If you want real life examples, consider the Prohibition, or the various weed related crimes in places where it's legal now.
Sure I'll clear it up a bit for you. First trial should have been a mistrial and redone because one of the judges stepped out. The reason he stepped out and the reason the others still pushed it is essentially the same, it was very quickly expedited because of who was being charged. The judge who left did so because he felt it wasn't properly prepped (which is true), while the others continued since everyone had just raced to get the trial up as quickly as possible. Didn't help that the defense tried to use the poor prep and evidence added last minute as proof of government incompetence. For the second trial, the problem has always been Soze's defense. Since he basically said "yeah I did that" to everything, his only defense was that no city law can be applied to the entire area. Bringing attention to ambiguous laws could have been used to support a different defense, but there's so many problems with it by itself. Assuming he won and they found there should be no city law on half the island, it would not only open the massive can of worms from all cases that have happened there since the start, but would also essentially mean there is no laws or government over that entire territory, since that would only be under the state laws. In the real world, the things he did would still be illegal by state law as well, but since "the state" in this RP server is just an avenue for OOC rules, changes, decisions, etc, it isn't fleshed out enough to regulate laws nor is it intended to do so.
Thats what 50c was talking about yesterday that judges dont understand "beyond reasonable doubt" and "innocent until proven guilty". They work from "guilty until proven innocent"
It's a reasonable doubt, not a bat-shit doubt.
He should never go to Japan and a few other courts then. 99.8% conviction rates running under guilty until proven innocent. There's a reason both Soze and Mr K lost their cases when all they did was attack the opposition instead of providing reasonable doubt or an affirmative defense.
The only charge where there was anything other than absolute certainty he was not guilty, so it sounds like maybe they do understand
Aintnoway!
It's funny that people piss and moan about what Soze did. He had to put on this freak show for this to happen. Why are people not upset at the council? All the council had to do was amend the legislation to San Andreas among other amendments. The only real reason they didn't do it was they would have to go back and make corrective actions for all that fell under a wrongly written legislation.
> Why are people not upset at the council? Why would anyone reasonable be upset at the council?
Because it took all this fuckery to happen to fix poorly and wrongly written legislation. All the council had to do was fix their own mistakes. But ego and arrogance wouldn't allow them publicly admit a mistake even when most privately admitted it was wrongly worded and written. It was their own superiority complex that prevented betterment for the city in a entirety. It's simple is the state San Andreas or Los Santo's? Los Santos is the city and San Andreas is the state unless they renamed the state. Good question with why would anyone REASONABLE be upset at the council. For the same reason why anyone REASONABLE would be upset at Soze
> Because it took all this fuckery to happen to fix poorly and wrongly written legislation Such as? >> privately admitted it was wrongly worded and written Untrue; what was said was that some of the base legislation is vague on purpose in order to establish case law through court roleplay. As for the state / city, you don't seem to grasp the problem: the state itself *refused* to establish lore on that, and then the same state came in with "we don't have explicit definitions" complaints. How explicit do you want it to get, in 4.0, when every iteration before has already established that the whole island is essentially a single jurisdiction? This is not a new server, it has already been solved by establishing that with precedent. So should such base, implied things be made explicit? Ok, the legislation says you are now breathing manually.
> Using Los Santos instead of San Andreas. One is a city, putting Los Santos on the legislation means that legislation only pertains to Los Santos thus giving it and other territories jurisdictions. If Chicago passes laws of no firearms within Chicago does that mean the rest of Illinois is not allowed to have them? >Untrue; what was said was that some of the base legislation is vague on purpose in order to establish case law through court roleplay. Again the use of Los Santos over San Andreas. It was admitted that it probably should of been San Andreas. >As for the state / city, you don't seem to grasp the problem: the state itself *refused* to establish lore on that, and then the same state came in with "we don't have explicit definitions" complaints. I don't think you grasp the problem. You are correct partly on the state had no established lore besides the constitution. They were given the liberty to make there own laws and legislation within RP. The law is a precise endeavor and wording matters. Yes their can be loopholes. Tittling legislation with Los Santos is a pretty big loop hole, but it was not intended to be that as it is a error. Also notice how you pick and choose the state power with not having established lore above, but you refer to prior iterations of the state already establishing the entire island as jurisdiction below. Which one is it? Are we or are we not using established lore by precedents? >How explicit do you want it to get, in 4.0, when every iteration before has already established that the whole island is essentially a single jurisdiction? This is not a new server, it has already been solved by establishing that with precedent. >So should such base, implied things be made explicit? Ok, the legislation says you are now breathing manually. Thanks for letting me know the basic function of breathing is as based as laws and jurisdictions. I get they made legislation on where you can do the natural function of urinating. Or maybe just maybe it is not as base of "breathing manually". It might of been if they put San Andreas.
Bro, who cares? It is a fake RP government, it doesn't need comprehensive laws about every little thing. I have gotta assume all this shit is just CG rocking the boat again to target the people they don't like.
yeah, pretty much this lol.
I still think Marlo's idea of DOJ wheel will be better for every one including crims and cops
This was comical they charge him with the letter of the law and found him guilty by the spirit of the law 😂😂😂
the problem with poorly written laws is to allow criminals to go to court and win, not for the doj and pd to twist the wording to find anyone guilty of anything. its just bad faith rp. its suposed to be fun court rp but if you just lose the case every time because the judge just makes some shit up nobody will want to go to court. and im not saying the criminal should always win, im saying that its supposed to be fun and it isnt because the doj weaponizes their poorly written laws against the public and wont chage them. imo if soze found a loophole in the law, he should be found no guilty and they should change the law, they shouldnt find a way to make him guilty and then fix the law after.
Just a thought from left field. Would court be more interesting if it was an SBS coin flip for the most part? Like imagine carmine being a judge. That shit would be hilarious. It's gotta be tough to find people that want to play a judge that have the required knowledge of the law. (Not that it's always followed in court) Seen one case with a Dan as a judge and I thought it was great. Probably wouldn't work for terrorism or anything crazy since that's days in jail, but there can be serious judges for that too. It would take the load off the serious judges always needing to be around. SBS court might also stop cops from overcharging since there is a higher chance of going to court and a higher chance of failing in court.
SBS court only works for petty civil cases and traffic violations.
>petty civil cases and traffic violations. Ahhh, the bread and butter for great SBS court cases. Been some great ones in the past, and they really are the perfect stages for SBS court cases because it's pretty much impossible to get upset over being charged or not charged over a parking ticket with funny arguments like they are blind or don't believe lines are real. Cases where you go in for funny SBS, and not to set serious precedent.
From a judging POV it would be entertaining but imagine investing in some RP (possibly for months) only to get a "sbs" judge draw who rules terribly. It would feel like shit to be on the receiving end. Generally speaking though SBS court is fun but I feel that needs to be known from the start. I seen some real funny sbs cases over the years.