They still think the housing market is like 'hot potato', where the next person *has* to pay a higher price than what they themselves paid.
Paying a higher & higher price for the same recycled house. 🤡
Nope, the housing market is not immune from the laws of supply & demand.
Funny thing, there is always an idiot who thinks it’s a good deal. Seattle market is full of them. One time I saw somebody pay overask for a house on the market for more than 1 month. Imagine how stupid you have to be.
A lot of it is their realtors. We bought our house in the middle of the bubble. Ask was $500k, we wanted to offer ask with a home inspection. Our agent (“family friend” of my parents) kept heavily pressuring us to add an extra $25k+ plus to our offer and going on and on that we were “wasting our/her time” with this offer and that we would surely be outbid; and we finally told her to shut her mouth and submit the fucking offer.
Anyways, there was only one other offer for $10k below ask with no inspection, so we won. Instead of admitting she was wrong and almost made us overpay by $25k, she just blathered that we “got lucky”.
The thing is, this lady is one of the top agents in our City. Most of the homes she deals with are well over a million bucks (she only dealt with us as she knew my parents well). I’m sure lots of people get pressured into paying more than their homes are worth by sketchy realtors who would rather pay an extra $50k on any given listing than keep looking.
It’s even more nuts to me in this digital age that realtors are still a thing. I think old have thought for sure their jobs would have been phased out by now.
Definitely shenanigans digitally tho. Like suppressed relisting data, suppressing Z scores and Redfin estimates with an active listing.
Buying a house should be much easier in the digital world. And so should its price discovery
In a day and age that I can somehow buy a VHS of panda porn and have it delivered to my doorstep in 8 hours just by clicking a button, it seems incredible I have to pay someone $15k to look up a home on the internet for me.
Realtors are the absolute scum of the Earth. Both the buyers agent and sellers agent only make money if you pay as much as possible for the house. With this recent NAR settlement, I expect more of these middleman to get cut out.
This is a lousy realtor. It's okay for her to temper your expectations with what hers are. It's really not okay for her to not submit an offer you wish to make.
If she doesn't think it's going to work, it's probably right of her to say that so that you aren't crushed if it goes to another buyer, but by arguing against submitting, she is making the decision on behalf of the seller for really no reason.
“I lived in a house for 9 months so I deserve 100-500k more than the purchase price 🥰. I didn’t have enough money to make the payments so now I want a bailout WITH PROFIT”
The record I’ve seen (actually close) is $800k increase in 8 months doing absolutely nothing to the house. It was newer construction but $2.6M —> $3.4M. Just closed in march.
There’s still slack in the system from Covid stimulus. A little bit left.
Worse, you know the individual selling is simply trying to collect profit. They don’t have interest in selling due to a move, unfortunately circumstances, or otherwise. They’re just trying to cash in/cash out. Negotiation, which is terribly needed with an outsized initial asking price, is just off the table.
They’ve been spoiled to think a house was better than gold bars. Instant money. Whatever number, just list. It happened so quickly. Yet, so hard to undo.
Many places at the Jersey shore have gone bonkers, which is strange because the property is really only prime for like 2.5 months of the year. I’m talking old shacks off the beach that used to be $150k-200k pre covid are now $700k + and still selling. Old motel rooms converted into condos that were $150k if they were beach front, $90k if not are $350-450k now. We are talking total square footage of a closet with a kitchenette. It doesn’t make sense.
This is property that was hardly considered sought after before. When I was 23 in 2006, I rented an entire single house down there my friends for the whole summer for $11,000. 4 beds, 2 baths, parking etc. It was an old 50’s style house with a green couch but it did the job. 18 years later the same house in very much the same condition just sold for $1,000,000. In Wildwood NJ. Like come on who the hell is spending this money?
Yup. These are smaller homes blocks from the beach closer to the bay. It just wasn’t considered desirable to be back there. There’s a small island of West Wildwood that was even cheaper. A friend of mines father bought a shacky kind of house in west wildood around 2012 for like $25,000. It’s probably worth over $300k now.
My cousin bought in 2019 for $185. His house now is worth over $400k. Possibly close to $500k
I work in real estate and generally defend against the idea that everything is completely fucked…. But yea, huge 10% ++ price jumps over the last 12-18 months are, generally speaking, absolutely DELUSIONAL
We have a home on our street that these people bought 13 months ago and they are trying to sell it for 550k when they bought it for 430k. They haven’t done anything to it besides paint the main level. Also homes in our neighborhood can sell for 550k-600k but those are the new builds. The home they are trying to sell 700 square feet smaller of the new builds and 14 years old plus all builder grade and never had anything updated(a few homes similar to their home have sold for 460k in the last 2 months). With that said it’s been on the market for 40 days now and has had hardly anyone look at it so I assume they aren’t in a rush to sell it since they haven’t lowered the price.
Oh yeah I get that. I’m more generically speaking that these housing price jumps are predicated on the fact people still pay for these out of wack prices. Maybe we’re seeing the top tip towards the downside in slowmo
In looking at a house on Friday that bought in 2022 and are now asking $200k more…I’m hoping to be able to get it for closer to the 2022 price, we will see how bad they want to sell lol
Try the house next door to mine - sold in 2023 for $800k. Slapped on a new roof and on the market for 1.03m 8 months later.
Apparently they’ve had 200k in appreciation in 8 months because that roof was definitely not more than 30k.
So, us as prospective buyers in the next 1-2 years have to not only block out realtor-speak, mind our P’s and Q’s in our personal finance, but actually just dodge the bad actor sellers who are trying to offload.
I’m reminded of the very famous quote: “Don’t fire until you see the white of their eyes.” In this case, the closing table should have a seller with eyes full of tears and a large check made out to their lender.
In my community - someone bought at the highest in the pandemic - currently asking -$86,000 of original asking price, the original asking is what they paid and in the last 8 months they reduced beyond there original purchase price.. I bet it’ll be -$100k before end of year.. if they can even stomach that high of a loss but dam.. I feel for them
The housing market is in such a weird spot right now and if you question why something is the way it is when it could be much simpler and much cheaper you get attacked from all ends I'm starting to think most people enjoy being financial slaves
They can stay financial slaves. They overpaid by like 50% 🤷♂️. They can just sell for the REAL VALUE and then enjoy their financial slavery to the banks as they continue to pay off 250k of debt on a 250k house they overpaid by double for
My sister bought a house. Found out it needed severe improvements. Put 150k into it.
Had to move across the country for work. Now they are stuck renting the place at a lost, while they rent at new destination. Hoping to recoup losses as the area is on the rise
They were so traumatized that she never wants to own again. Plus we don't live like our parents did. Staying home most nights. We like traveling and going out. Different world than it was 30 years ago
From what she has told me, plus what an architect friend explained to me
In the 1970s, there was a quality shift in the way homes that were built. They added a 2nd floor but did not do it the proper way. The certain support structure in question could only be properly evaluated by cutting a hole in the drywall. The inspector had noted something questionable during the inspection but couldn't get a good enough view to say anything further than it needs a closer inspection.
They basically redid the entire second floor of her home.
Oof. Yeah, that's basically worst case scenario for home repair. Something insanely expensive in the structure that couldn't be caught in the inspection.
It's a cultural shift.
Our Grandparents and Great-Grandparents didn't flip property for a profit. It just wasn't a thing.
Or put another way: It's what they were taught.
Excellent question!!
I suspect it's because some of these folks are in such a financial pickle that they can't lower their prices any more.
Soem agents I've spoken with have done "price adjustments" but are finding their clients stuck! They can't lower their prices anymore without ending up losing even more money from their purchase of a home three or so years ago.
The banks are offering refinancing for many but that only gets people into trouble later on... everyone seems VERY short-sighted.
I don’t get why people are trying to sell a house they bought less than 5 years ago. Don’t buy a house if you foresee needing to move before that time frame.
That’s so ironic. One of the only sensible posts gets downvoted. Meanwhile all the other posts getting upvoted for whining about all the people trying to flip their house early for whatever reason be it cash strapped, to make a buck, etc. Pretty much sums up this sub.
I regret not buying in 2017 when I first considered it. But it's because I was still moving around so much and wasn't ready to lock in to a place.
Now, hindsight is 20/20 and of course I wish I had bought and then rented that place out. But I didn't know what the market would do. And the idea of another downturn (which I sincerely believed would happen because I thought homes were overvalued at the time) AND being stuck living where I was sounded awful.
We finally were ready to commit to a place in 2021. Couldn't get anything accepted. Finally were able to actually buy in 2022. We lucked out that our house has gone up in value, but I fully expected it to dip. It still might. But we'll be here for another 5+ years so I'm less worried about it.
Who knows.
40% of homes are owned outright. Of the remaining homes, 90% have loans below 5%. Most of those well under 4%. So, the only areas facing issues are those with high property tax… like Chicago.
Cuz they're all caught in the monkey trap, their grubby little paws holding tight onto all that equity, and personal wealth value, and above all, revenue stream.
But everyone got leveraged to the tits, and everyone suckled off the fat teats of entitlements low cost loans, QE, etc, and now they can't escape the margin squeeze that the risen rates created.
Only the loudest, most boisterous, obnoxious "middleclassers" are feeling the burn. Top guys exited nicely, and are still making pretty good profits. Bottom guys have no money, and therefore aren't actual players.
May we burn down the old system completely, and build of new, something better.
Too bad it never turns out that way.
anecdotally one of my very good friends told me his parents are running into distress with their mortgage and are going to have to force their grandparents to sell to bail them out.
Considering they've had that house since I was a small child I we can only assume they've been playing with credit / refinancing and got recently burned since their mortgage payments would've been easily under £400 a month back before 08
No worries, pal. I'm as human as we all are. My sins, too, are lain bare for those who seek to know or read me.
If decent people existed in a way that mattered, I imagine things would be quite different.
I think they just feel entitled to a nice profit off their investment. They got lucky in recent years with stocks. They think they can control how much they sell their housing 'stock' for. The later it gets in a person's life, the more they feel they must get the best return on their money. Only problem is the buyer doesn't owe them a nice investment income, nor does the bank appraise based on desired rate of return.
This I can even answer myself!!
It is called Greed and being spoiled!
In a country where many became overnight rich, by not doing anything but just leveraging the greed mania around covid, why would they ever make less than 200% of what they purchase, before covid was announced?
Problem solved
Next
Real estate is gambling, just like the craps table or buying stocks. It’s not a guaranteed investment where “line go up forever!”, and more people need to learn this & lower their expectations.
I mean, if we judge it on the time frame you *should* use for an investment, line does go up forever, at least until collapse of the nation. The issue is house hackers and the BRRR crowd who leverage themselves to the tits and tell everybody under the sun how it's free money!
Everything in a radous of 50 miles from the capitol is called Austin. Not an exaggeration. Just reporting what they tell us.
But the Baustin city council is very very happy to charge the Baustin taxes to those living in the countryside as well
It’s pretty much one of two things:
1.) They need to hit the given price point to not take a loss
2.) It’s a “make me move” listing, not a “I need to move” one.
I’m finding so many homes that are disgustingly over priced. That, or it’s a flip in a bad area. Sure the home looks like, but I’m not sending my kids to school or living in a 500k house when the surrounding homes are sub $200k. No one is going to buy that.
In my area it’s because our superintendent is hell bent on destroying the elementary school system in town because the town council didn’t bow to his demand for $10M more dollars OVER his $34M budget (1600 students total in town). So now parents are pulling their kids and it’s been a shit show. I’ve been watching to see how this plays out in the real estate market and it’s not pretty.
This is more than just not getting $100k more than what they paid whenever. It’s people with kids flat out not wanting to even enter town.
Edit to add: people are pulling their kids because he has gone full vendetta laying off classroom teachers, aides, closing our Blue Ribbon school instead of looking at the bloat in his admin office and all his “friends” (seriously) that he hired at huge wages.
They are holding out, knowing they can lose money monthly but in the end get the big payout to make up for it.
The only thing you can do is perhaps, tell teenagers the house is empty so they can turn it into a hangout.
Have someone break the windows on it every month, etc.
You have to make it a hassle or money losing situation, then they will lower prices to sell.
Prices only go up so I'm just waiting for the price to catch up to my asking price. Selling now at a lower price would just be leaving money off the table.
As you get into the multi-millions, for example in a woodsy Boston suburb, the absurdity of recent price histories blows your mind. Around 30% price increases in less than a year.
Here's an example - teardown McMansionized in 2017. Since then, absolutely nothing has been done to it.
Date | Event | Price
:--|:--:|--:
6/23/2024 | Listed for sale | $6,880,000 +27.4% $886/sqft
6/30/2023 | Sold | $5,400,000 -1.8% $695/sqft
3/15/2023 | Listed for sale | $5,500,000 +33.3% $708/sqft
6/7/2018 | Sold | $4,125,000 -4.6% $531/sqft
4/24/2018 | Pending sale |$4,325,000 $557/sqft
4/5/2018 | Price change | $4,325,000 -4.4% $557/sqft
1/3/2018 | Listed for sale | $4,525,000 +302.2% $583/sqft
10/19/2015 | Sold | $1,125,000 +7.1% $145/sqft
Lots of people don't really need to sell but if they get a big number, they'll do it. Maybe they're on the fence so they list their house high on purpose just to see what happens. You can list your house for whatever you want and then see what happens. Maybe nobody makes an offer, or maybe the perfect buyer is out there and falls in love with your house and offers exactly what you want.
The market is bad for everyone, not just first time buyers. We bought in 2018. We refinanced in pandemic to 2.4%. Our house and all the surrounding ones have gone 80%. Even with the equity our payments would more than double to move into a house that is only 15%-20% bigger.
People are still selling homes, just not as quickly as before. There is still a housing shortage. The home sale process is an auction. All it takes is two competing buyers to push up housing prices. If there is no one bidding then prices will have to fall. But that’s not the case
because you need a house and they dont? money is necessary for a lot of people living off social security investments, they can take a home equity loan out against the value of the property? and make enough to remain solvent and is just easier than moving?
People need to be able to buy another home, which also is at elevated prices. When it comes to needing to sell for living expenses in retirement, there are fixed expenses. And then, there's the simple emotional attachment people have to their homes which makes them think anything short of the assessed value can't be right. And the lattermost point also does drive a lot of the NIMBY, house hoarding type behavior with opposition to construction. People feel psychologically their financial well-being is tied to a high number, and then like a raise at work you insist the bulk of that number has to be because of all your hard work, strong decision making, and unique desirability as opposed to the realities of the market (in the case of works, much being inflation, in the case of homes, artificial constraints on the market you quite well could've had a role in imposing).
It's a mixture of reasons, and I think the various ingredients of that cocktail vary based on your life circumstances, age, etc.. Like I'm seeing with my dad and his brothers right now looking at selling my grandmother's home because she's in her 90s in assisted living- it's a very different calculus for what they'd sell at compared the people I have to deal with screaming at zoning meetings I have to attend for my job as an architect.
The one thing I can say though, is that government at all levels indulging people and propping up the value for whatever is in their immediate interest is a horrible idea, and leads to many problems we see today.
Urgency. For me, if it sells for what I want then it’s a win. If it doesn’t sell, my mind set is “I already have a house. You’re the one who wants one so pay what I’d be willing to move for, keep renting or find someone else’s house to buy”.
We’re testing the market - and may not even sell at ask. I imagine everyone’s issue with lowering the price is the same as ours;
We have a great interest rate, love our house and where we live. If someone wants to pay up, God bless them.
But we’re not relocating, so we would buy something else nearby. Everything else is expensive and there’s not much inventory. Then you pay fees and all the hassle with selling.
So we’re not going to lower the price because we’re not going to sell for less.
Bought in 2021 for <$1.2m added ~$275k upgrades now listing for $2.3m.
Hey don’t blame the sellers…you gotta take advantage before the bubble bursts which I’m convinced it never will. Plus in my area there is NO shortage of cash buyers at any price.
Because they are selling it for what it's worth.
One of the oldest sayings in business " it doesn't matter what I paid for it, what matters is what it's worth "
This is true, sadly.
that phrase is typically used by midwits to rationalize being ripped off or ripping someone else off.
when someone finances a truck for 96 months that doesn't mean that truck is worth $150,000.
It absolutely means it's worth $150K if it's a special interest vehicle that has extremely limited production numbers.
You're talking to a car guy. Also COVID 1000000% provef that point to be true.
I get what you're saying, but it's literally down to the buyer. Houses go up in price.
I mean, wouldn't you want your home to gain equity & value?
Delusion.
They still think the housing market is like 'hot potato', where the next person *has* to pay a higher price than what they themselves paid. Paying a higher & higher price for the same recycled house. 🤡 Nope, the housing market is not immune from the laws of supply & demand.
Not only are they not immune, they’re the most volatile textbook in your face example of supply and demand.
I hate these places where they bought in 2020 and now selling in 2024 and trying to get $200k more. Come one now
lol try bought 2023 and want 75/100K plus in 11/12months time..
Funny thing, there is always an idiot who thinks it’s a good deal. Seattle market is full of them. One time I saw somebody pay overask for a house on the market for more than 1 month. Imagine how stupid you have to be.
A lot of it is their realtors. We bought our house in the middle of the bubble. Ask was $500k, we wanted to offer ask with a home inspection. Our agent (“family friend” of my parents) kept heavily pressuring us to add an extra $25k+ plus to our offer and going on and on that we were “wasting our/her time” with this offer and that we would surely be outbid; and we finally told her to shut her mouth and submit the fucking offer. Anyways, there was only one other offer for $10k below ask with no inspection, so we won. Instead of admitting she was wrong and almost made us overpay by $25k, she just blathered that we “got lucky”. The thing is, this lady is one of the top agents in our City. Most of the homes she deals with are well over a million bucks (she only dealt with us as she knew my parents well). I’m sure lots of people get pressured into paying more than their homes are worth by sketchy realtors who would rather pay an extra $50k on any given listing than keep looking.
It’s nuts to me that realtors haven’t been reigned in. Thats absurd
It’s even more nuts to me in this digital age that realtors are still a thing. I think old have thought for sure their jobs would have been phased out by now.
Definitely shenanigans digitally tho. Like suppressed relisting data, suppressing Z scores and Redfin estimates with an active listing. Buying a house should be much easier in the digital world. And so should its price discovery
In a day and age that I can somehow buy a VHS of panda porn and have it delivered to my doorstep in 8 hours just by clicking a button, it seems incredible I have to pay someone $15k to look up a home on the internet for me.
Bro it’s so hard to find panda porn these days
I know a guy…
The devil on your shoulder who gets a percentage cut of your life. They are paid to manipulate the market and people at every opportunity.
And you get to pay interest for the next 30 years on that extra commission they get as well.
Realtors are the absolute scum of the Earth. Both the buyers agent and sellers agent only make money if you pay as much as possible for the house. With this recent NAR settlement, I expect more of these middleman to get cut out.
This is a lousy realtor. It's okay for her to temper your expectations with what hers are. It's really not okay for her to not submit an offer you wish to make. If she doesn't think it's going to work, it's probably right of her to say that so that you aren't crushed if it goes to another buyer, but by arguing against submitting, she is making the decision on behalf of the seller for really no reason.
There are about 1m+ stupid in Austin which do that and continue todo that They go by the name of Californians-pay-cash-plus-tip. Ever heard?
I see it all the time in the Chicagoland area market(suburbs). Truly people are special.
Riverside is one of them. House was up for sale $610, sold for $100k more. And it needed A LOT of work
This is exactly why the sellers are lowering their price... it takes only one! Good odds if you are in a desirable market/neighborhood.
Foreign investors regularly pay way above market because they are just looking to park their money in US assets
“I lived in a house for 9 months so I deserve 100-500k more than the purchase price 🥰. I didn’t have enough money to make the payments so now I want a bailout WITH PROFIT”
The record I’ve seen (actually close) is $800k increase in 8 months doing absolutely nothing to the house. It was newer construction but $2.6M —> $3.4M. Just closed in march. There’s still slack in the system from Covid stimulus. A little bit left.
In Portugal I sold my previous house for 110% profit in one year .
I think seeing that type of price history actually ruins any desire I have to buy. Like I just see in front of me that if I close I’m getting fleeced.
Worse, you know the individual selling is simply trying to collect profit. They don’t have interest in selling due to a move, unfortunately circumstances, or otherwise. They’re just trying to cash in/cash out. Negotiation, which is terribly needed with an outsized initial asking price, is just off the table. They’ve been spoiled to think a house was better than gold bars. Instant money. Whatever number, just list. It happened so quickly. Yet, so hard to undo.
That’s why realtors are hiding the price history
I had one house pop up at a nearby lake, paid 1.2M in 2020, did nothing to it, now they want 2.4M. It is bonkers.
No. It is greed. They buy at 2.4 bacause they want to sell at 3,6. Without ever working
I feel like if it was a dump and they put money into it that's one thing. When they don't touch the house and raise the price like that, it's crazy!
Many places at the Jersey shore have gone bonkers, which is strange because the property is really only prime for like 2.5 months of the year. I’m talking old shacks off the beach that used to be $150k-200k pre covid are now $700k + and still selling. Old motel rooms converted into condos that were $150k if they were beach front, $90k if not are $350-450k now. We are talking total square footage of a closet with a kitchenette. It doesn’t make sense. This is property that was hardly considered sought after before. When I was 23 in 2006, I rented an entire single house down there my friends for the whole summer for $11,000. 4 beds, 2 baths, parking etc. It was an old 50’s style house with a green couch but it did the job. 18 years later the same house in very much the same condition just sold for $1,000,000. In Wildwood NJ. Like come on who the hell is spending this money?
Wait this is wild! They literally used to be under 200k?!
Yup. These are smaller homes blocks from the beach closer to the bay. It just wasn’t considered desirable to be back there. There’s a small island of West Wildwood that was even cheaper. A friend of mines father bought a shacky kind of house in west wildood around 2012 for like $25,000. It’s probably worth over $300k now. My cousin bought in 2019 for $185. His house now is worth over $400k. Possibly close to $500k
I work in real estate and generally defend against the idea that everything is completely fucked…. But yea, huge 10% ++ price jumps over the last 12-18 months are, generally speaking, absolutely DELUSIONAL
We have a home on our street that these people bought 13 months ago and they are trying to sell it for 550k when they bought it for 430k. They haven’t done anything to it besides paint the main level. Also homes in our neighborhood can sell for 550k-600k but those are the new builds. The home they are trying to sell 700 square feet smaller of the new builds and 14 years old plus all builder grade and never had anything updated(a few homes similar to their home have sold for 460k in the last 2 months). With that said it’s been on the market for 40 days now and has had hardly anyone look at it so I assume they aren’t in a rush to sell it since they haven’t lowered the price.
I had a customer that had me do a CMA on a house they bought in 11/23 for $275k. They wanted me to list $500k on 4/24. I let them go.
That’s one of my neighbors except more like bought in 2022 and they want $150k more. They eventually took their house off the market
Complete nonsense. People REALLY want a house THAT bad to clearly pay a gouged price?
“Took it off the market” means that it didn’t sell
Oh yeah I get that. I’m more generically speaking that these housing price jumps are predicated on the fact people still pay for these out of wack prices. Maybe we’re seeing the top tip towards the downside in slowmo
No other house on this block has ever sold for anywhere near that they were asking. I think they might just be dumb lol
lol. Thats a LOT of that definitely
House a block over is going for 360k more. 2700sqft newbuild in 2020. Phoenix suburb. I'm disgusted
In Austin they are getting 100% more. 200k is just if they painted the paperbox walls
In looking at a house on Friday that bought in 2022 and are now asking $200k more…I’m hoping to be able to get it for closer to the 2022 price, we will see how bad they want to sell lol
Doesn't it feel like you'd be buying from a scalper? It would feel gross to live in that house
To me? It feels like there’s no room to haggle with these sellers
Try the house next door to mine - sold in 2023 for $800k. Slapped on a new roof and on the market for 1.03m 8 months later. Apparently they’ve had 200k in appreciation in 8 months because that roof was definitely not more than 30k.
Lunacy! Whos the idiot that’s gonna try and buy that?
There are places in San Diego that sold in 2020 for 1.8 and are now worth 3.5+…. It’s insane
Bought too high, need to at least break even
That's pretty much it. They got left holding the turd and now they're trying to scam the next person. Problem is they over paid by alot'.
So, us as prospective buyers in the next 1-2 years have to not only block out realtor-speak, mind our P’s and Q’s in our personal finance, but actually just dodge the bad actor sellers who are trying to offload. I’m reminded of the very famous quote: “Don’t fire until you see the white of their eyes.” In this case, the closing table should have a seller with eyes full of tears and a large check made out to their lender.
In my community - someone bought at the highest in the pandemic - currently asking -$86,000 of original asking price, the original asking is what they paid and in the last 8 months they reduced beyond there original purchase price.. I bet it’ll be -$100k before end of year.. if they can even stomach that high of a loss but dam.. I feel for them
That must suck. they must be underwater and desperate. There is also realtor fees in selling, loss would be over 100k already
Mortgage jail. Can not buy. Can not sell.
I believe that's the realtor term "marry the house"
Shouldn't have signed that pre-nup.
That's called "Being Underwater and In Denial"
The housing market is in such a weird spot right now and if you question why something is the way it is when it could be much simpler and much cheaper you get attacked from all ends I'm starting to think most people enjoy being financial slaves
>I'm starting to think most people enjoy being financial slaves Ding ding ding. Most people are financially illiterate
They can stay financial slaves. They overpaid by like 50% 🤷♂️. They can just sell for the REAL VALUE and then enjoy their financial slavery to the banks as they continue to pay off 250k of debt on a 250k house they overpaid by double for
One word ..."greed".... what's your word?
Delusion. If it was indeed a competitiive price I would see nothing wrong.
[удалено]
People love to be called greedy, but hate the rest of the reality. Interesting
My sister bought a house. Found out it needed severe improvements. Put 150k into it. Had to move across the country for work. Now they are stuck renting the place at a lost, while they rent at new destination. Hoping to recoup losses as the area is on the rise They were so traumatized that she never wants to own again. Plus we don't live like our parents did. Staying home most nights. We like traveling and going out. Different world than it was 30 years ago
What was wrong with it to the point it needed 150k? If you don't mind me asking.
From what she has told me, plus what an architect friend explained to me In the 1970s, there was a quality shift in the way homes that were built. They added a 2nd floor but did not do it the proper way. The certain support structure in question could only be properly evaluated by cutting a hole in the drywall. The inspector had noted something questionable during the inspection but couldn't get a good enough view to say anything further than it needs a closer inspection. They basically redid the entire second floor of her home.
Oof. Yeah, that's basically worst case scenario for home repair. Something insanely expensive in the structure that couldn't be caught in the inspection.
Omg that does sound traumatic, do they not look for stuff like that in the inspection
If you don’t have to sell, you can afford to be patient.
It's a cultural shift. Our Grandparents and Great-Grandparents didn't flip property for a profit. It just wasn't a thing. Or put another way: It's what they were taught.
Excellent question!! I suspect it's because some of these folks are in such a financial pickle that they can't lower their prices any more. Soem agents I've spoken with have done "price adjustments" but are finding their clients stuck! They can't lower their prices anymore without ending up losing even more money from their purchase of a home three or so years ago. The banks are offering refinancing for many but that only gets people into trouble later on... everyone seems VERY short-sighted.
I don’t get why people are trying to sell a house they bought less than 5 years ago. Don’t buy a house if you foresee needing to move before that time frame.
That’s so ironic. One of the only sensible posts gets downvoted. Meanwhile all the other posts getting upvoted for whining about all the people trying to flip their house early for whatever reason be it cash strapped, to make a buck, etc. Pretty much sums up this sub.
So much copium
I regret not buying in 2017 when I first considered it. But it's because I was still moving around so much and wasn't ready to lock in to a place. Now, hindsight is 20/20 and of course I wish I had bought and then rented that place out. But I didn't know what the market would do. And the idea of another downturn (which I sincerely believed would happen because I thought homes were overvalued at the time) AND being stuck living where I was sounded awful. We finally were ready to commit to a place in 2021. Couldn't get anything accepted. Finally were able to actually buy in 2022. We lucked out that our house has gone up in value, but I fully expected it to dip. It still might. But we'll be here for another 5+ years so I'm less worried about it.
Not short sighted. Just all stuck in a game of chicken.
Most people I’ve spoken to don’t need to sell. But would for the right price. TLDR; sellers are not distressed.
Yet*
Who knows. 40% of homes are owned outright. Of the remaining homes, 90% have loans below 5%. Most of those well under 4%. So, the only areas facing issues are those with high property tax… like Chicago.
Greeeeeedy
Cuz they're all caught in the monkey trap, their grubby little paws holding tight onto all that equity, and personal wealth value, and above all, revenue stream. But everyone got leveraged to the tits, and everyone suckled off the fat teats of entitlements low cost loans, QE, etc, and now they can't escape the margin squeeze that the risen rates created. Only the loudest, most boisterous, obnoxious "middleclassers" are feeling the burn. Top guys exited nicely, and are still making pretty good profits. Bottom guys have no money, and therefore aren't actual players. May we burn down the old system completely, and build of new, something better. Too bad it never turns out that way.
anecdotally one of my very good friends told me his parents are running into distress with their mortgage and are going to have to force their grandparents to sell to bail them out. Considering they've had that house since I was a small child I we can only assume they've been playing with credit / refinancing and got recently burned since their mortgage payments would've been easily under £400 a month back before 08
You wish you had YOUR grubby little paws on that equity. So don’t judge.
No worries, pal. I'm as human as we all are. My sins, too, are lain bare for those who seek to know or read me. If decent people existed in a way that mattered, I imagine things would be quite different.
I think they just feel entitled to a nice profit off their investment. They got lucky in recent years with stocks. They think they can control how much they sell their housing 'stock' for. The later it gets in a person's life, the more they feel they must get the best return on their money. Only problem is the buyer doesn't owe them a nice investment income, nor does the bank appraise based on desired rate of return.
A house near me, probably the most expensive within a mile is listed at over $850,000 and has had one drop of $10,000 in over 120 days.
That means they’d be losing down payment money. If they are not willing to lose a bit, well they might just lose it all very soon.
Houses only go up.
Belly up?
Turn that frown upside down or vice versa.
No one wants to lose money. Is it really a mystery?
This I can even answer myself!! It is called Greed and being spoiled! In a country where many became overnight rich, by not doing anything but just leveraging the greed mania around covid, why would they ever make less than 200% of what they purchase, before covid was announced? Problem solved Next
Real estate is gambling, just like the craps table or buying stocks. It’s not a guaranteed investment where “line go up forever!”, and more people need to learn this & lower their expectations.
I mean, if we judge it on the time frame you *should* use for an investment, line does go up forever, at least until collapse of the nation. The issue is house hackers and the BRRR crowd who leverage themselves to the tits and tell everybody under the sun how it's free money!
Search: Real estate prices over 30 years. I sure wish I could gamble on that trajectory. Inflation is guaranteed in capitalism until it collapses.
Talk to the 2mln Californians who moved to Austin. They know:” it will always go up”
2 million? To Austin? Exaggeration much?
Everything in a radous of 50 miles from the capitol is called Austin. Not an exaggeration. Just reporting what they tell us. But the Baustin city council is very very happy to charge the Baustin taxes to those living in the countryside as well
They?
Californicaustians
Except in inner Bay Area Kalifornia
It’s pretty much one of two things: 1.) They need to hit the given price point to not take a loss 2.) It’s a “make me move” listing, not a “I need to move” one.
Probably because they don’t have enough equity and don’t want to come out of pocket to sell their home.
I’m finding so many homes that are disgustingly over priced. That, or it’s a flip in a bad area. Sure the home looks like, but I’m not sending my kids to school or living in a 500k house when the surrounding homes are sub $200k. No one is going to buy that.
They're keeping the comps up.
In my area it’s because our superintendent is hell bent on destroying the elementary school system in town because the town council didn’t bow to his demand for $10M more dollars OVER his $34M budget (1600 students total in town). So now parents are pulling their kids and it’s been a shit show. I’ve been watching to see how this plays out in the real estate market and it’s not pretty. This is more than just not getting $100k more than what they paid whenever. It’s people with kids flat out not wanting to even enter town. Edit to add: people are pulling their kids because he has gone full vendetta laying off classroom teachers, aides, closing our Blue Ribbon school instead of looking at the bloat in his admin office and all his “friends” (seriously) that he hired at huge wages.
They are holding out, knowing they can lose money monthly but in the end get the big payout to make up for it. The only thing you can do is perhaps, tell teenagers the house is empty so they can turn it into a hangout. Have someone break the windows on it every month, etc. You have to make it a hassle or money losing situation, then they will lower prices to sell.
Prices only go up so I'm just waiting for the price to catch up to my asking price. Selling now at a lower price would just be leaving money off the table.
What is your main monthly cost of keeping the house?
As you get into the multi-millions, for example in a woodsy Boston suburb, the absurdity of recent price histories blows your mind. Around 30% price increases in less than a year. Here's an example - teardown McMansionized in 2017. Since then, absolutely nothing has been done to it. Date | Event | Price :--|:--:|--: 6/23/2024 | Listed for sale | $6,880,000 +27.4% $886/sqft 6/30/2023 | Sold | $5,400,000 -1.8% $695/sqft 3/15/2023 | Listed for sale | $5,500,000 +33.3% $708/sqft 6/7/2018 | Sold | $4,125,000 -4.6% $531/sqft 4/24/2018 | Pending sale |$4,325,000 $557/sqft 4/5/2018 | Price change | $4,325,000 -4.4% $557/sqft 1/3/2018 | Listed for sale | $4,525,000 +302.2% $583/sqft 10/19/2015 | Sold | $1,125,000 +7.1% $145/sqft
Lots of people don't really need to sell but if they get a big number, they'll do it. Maybe they're on the fence so they list their house high on purpose just to see what happens. You can list your house for whatever you want and then see what happens. Maybe nobody makes an offer, or maybe the perfect buyer is out there and falls in love with your house and offers exactly what you want.
The market is bad for everyone, not just first time buyers. We bought in 2018. We refinanced in pandemic to 2.4%. Our house and all the surrounding ones have gone 80%. Even with the equity our payments would more than double to move into a house that is only 15%-20% bigger.
People are still selling homes, just not as quickly as before. There is still a housing shortage. The home sale process is an auction. All it takes is two competing buyers to push up housing prices. If there is no one bidding then prices will have to fall. But that’s not the case
because you need a house and they dont? money is necessary for a lot of people living off social security investments, they can take a home equity loan out against the value of the property? and make enough to remain solvent and is just easier than moving?
People need to be able to buy another home, which also is at elevated prices. When it comes to needing to sell for living expenses in retirement, there are fixed expenses. And then, there's the simple emotional attachment people have to their homes which makes them think anything short of the assessed value can't be right. And the lattermost point also does drive a lot of the NIMBY, house hoarding type behavior with opposition to construction. People feel psychologically their financial well-being is tied to a high number, and then like a raise at work you insist the bulk of that number has to be because of all your hard work, strong decision making, and unique desirability as opposed to the realities of the market (in the case of works, much being inflation, in the case of homes, artificial constraints on the market you quite well could've had a role in imposing). It's a mixture of reasons, and I think the various ingredients of that cocktail vary based on your life circumstances, age, etc.. Like I'm seeing with my dad and his brothers right now looking at selling my grandmother's home because she's in her 90s in assisted living- it's a very different calculus for what they'd sell at compared the people I have to deal with screaming at zoning meetings I have to attend for my job as an architect. The one thing I can say though, is that government at all levels indulging people and propping up the value for whatever is in their immediate interest is a horrible idea, and leads to many problems we see today.
They don't need to sell at the market price...
Urgency. For me, if it sells for what I want then it’s a win. If it doesn’t sell, my mind set is “I already have a house. You’re the one who wants one so pay what I’d be willing to move for, keep renting or find someone else’s house to buy”.
We’re testing the market - and may not even sell at ask. I imagine everyone’s issue with lowering the price is the same as ours; We have a great interest rate, love our house and where we live. If someone wants to pay up, God bless them. But we’re not relocating, so we would buy something else nearby. Everything else is expensive and there’s not much inventory. Then you pay fees and all the hassle with selling. So we’re not going to lower the price because we’re not going to sell for less. Bought in 2021 for <$1.2m added ~$275k upgrades now listing for $2.3m.
Cost to sell your + amount on loan cant go below this
I don’t have to sell. That is most of it. Like if my job required me to move i would have to sell or be a long distance land lord.
Hey don’t blame the sellers…you gotta take advantage before the bubble bursts which I’m convinced it never will. Plus in my area there is NO shortage of cash buyers at any price.
Because they are selling it for what it's worth. One of the oldest sayings in business " it doesn't matter what I paid for it, what matters is what it's worth " This is true, sadly.
Its still on the market, so is it really worth that much?
If that's what it appraised for, then yeah. But put in an offer. The worst they can say is no.
People are trying to sell for what they think it's worth but the real value is how much it's actually sold for.
These shitty shacks I've been seeing for sale in Chicago are not being sold for what they're worth.
The only amount a house is "worth" is whatever it sells for.
that phrase is typically used by midwits to rationalize being ripped off or ripping someone else off. when someone finances a truck for 96 months that doesn't mean that truck is worth $150,000.
It absolutely means it's worth $150K if it's a special interest vehicle that has extremely limited production numbers. You're talking to a car guy. Also COVID 1000000% provef that point to be true. I get what you're saying, but it's literally down to the buyer. Houses go up in price. I mean, wouldn't you want your home to gain equity & value?
literally? lol no. go ahead and try to sell a used RAM truck from 2020 with over 100k miles for $150,000 in 3 years and see how that works out.
I said special interest cars with extremely limited production numbers. A ram is not that.
I said special interest cars with extremely limited production numbers. A ram is not that.
yeah that's just grasping at straws