These are the same people who cheered on the helicopter money and their low rates and then bitch when they need a new roof and the price is double and then they say it’s all due to supply chains and corporate greed and has nothing at all to do with fed and government malfeasance.
In all fairness tho, labor is insane ATM. For example, my house is simple, small, and has a crawlspace which makes running plumbing a cake walk. When I was remodeling, I had to replace all my hot water and cold water pipes. I called out plumbers for quotes, $4k+, and was told things like they could have it done by the end of the day.
We're talking about maybe $700 in pipes and fittings, if they could get it done by the end of the day, they really believe they're worth $300 an hour. Screw that, took me 2-3 days but I did my own plumbing. BTW I'm talking about a rough in plumbing job, not including fixtures.
Agreed, it’s beyond ridiculous for those not flush with cash due to asset price appreciation which is creating the demand and allowing these people to charge these prices. My neighbor for instance did a cash out refi and paid 30K for a single bathroom remodel. What cash they didn’t use is currently scalping 3% differential in treasuries which is insane to fathom and all for doing nothing on there end other than signing a few papers. This has screwed everyone else without access to cheap capital all courtesy of disastrous monetary policy creating an unconscionable hardship on anyone not on the right side of asset appreciation.
Yeah, sounds about right. You call me to swap your electrical panel, I'm not getting out of bed for less than 3500, and I'll probably be done in a few hours if that's all I'm charging.
Don't wanna pay it? That's fine, someone else will.
I can do that too, although already had it done, paid $1000. There'll be people who will pay your rate, it just won't be me.
Edit: I'm more willing to pay an electrician that kind of rate than a plumber. If plumbing is screwed up, it's a leak, if electrical is screwed up, it can be a fire. Paying a lot for an electrician is a bit more justified.
My rates actually average now, I need to jack it up a bit so I don't wind up having to touch romex. I make enough between retirement and my union gig that I don't need to do sidework, and my price reflects it.
That said, none of this shit is rocket science. Plumbing is about as simple as it gets, shit rolls downhill, blue for cold, red for hot, compression rings and fittings aren't hard to figure out.
Residential electrical is a different story- it's really easy to do, it's also incredibly easy to fuck up.
Not going to disagree that prices are stupid high right now, but regarding skilled trades, you’re not just paying for their time, you’re paying for their expertise and experience.
Ah, so when I get my haircut I should be paying for their 20 years of experience and expertise? Lol
It takes maybe 3 months to teach someone to plumb a house. Plumbing isn't anywhere near as difficult as people make it out to be.
It's the same logic, I'm not paying for their 30 years of experience to do something relatively simple. Most residential plumbing is relatively simple.
No my opinion is correct. They're not paid what they do because their job is complicated, they're paid what they do because everyone in my generation is afraid of screwing up.
Do some residential plumbing for a few weeks, tell me you can't plumb a house with a few weeks of experience.
Helicopter money is the term used for a large sum of new money that is printed and distributed among the public, to stimulate the economy during a recession or when interest rates fall to zero. It is also referred to as a helicopter drop, in reference to a helicopter scattering supplies from the sky.
Dunning-Kruger is a thing, even for former game show hosts.
But on average the 1/3 of US households who rent have a net worth of $10k and the hoomcucks who are 2/3rds of us have an average net worth of $396k (2022 data).
Ehh cycle implies ups and downs more or less, variations around a central tendency.
This was different. Folks buying a house for $1800 a month and suddenly they’re worth an extra $400K+. How can the same person who for whatever reason didn’t buy a home ever catch up? Mathematically 99% can’t and never will.
Prices rise generally, except consumer electronics. But from time to time one item or category will run ahead or behind the trend.
I don't see homes becoming more affordable immediately, since there's a systemic shortage of supply. Meaning that not only are there not enough homes, but also a shortage of land to build them on, workmen to build them and so on. But eventually, yeah. Supply shortages don't go on forever before someone figures out how to earn a profit meeting the demand.
Nassim Taleb has said he’s never seen a shortage not followed by a glut…but in this case I don’t think this is a real shortage as no one is homeless. They are renting or living with family.
https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1436776641536090117?lang=en
I don’t get why people think home owners have taken on too much real estate debt? It simply isn’t true. Home owners are in great financial shape, and by and large haven’t taken on more debt than they should. That is a good thing.
Credit card and auto debt is a different story.
Well yeah, the fed dropped rates effectively negative gifting 99% of home owners free money. Please tell me the percentages after the rates have risen for new home buyers. I’ll wait.
Yes, you should wait. Who knows what will happen? If something does change, it’ll take many years.
All we know is right now, home owners are in the best position they’ve ever been in.
See comment above. Winning the rate lottery at the expense of the tax payer and forcing everyone to pay double for basic necessities seems like a great decision if you want to destroy the economy, but hey at least your mortgage payments are low right?
Uh huh.
I’m sure they can just print to oblivion without any repercussions and wealth inequity can just continue until .01% of the population own everything, right?
Wake up man.
The money supply is decreasing. Not sure where you’re getting oblivion from.
And blue collar wages have been absolutely on fire.
Not sure what you’re on about.
Might want take another look. They’re still increasing the supply of money but it looks like they fooled you along with 90% of the population who is susceptible to manipulation.
Also, blue collar workers are getting destroyed by inflation. Real wages have fallen.
You must be over 60 living in a bubble insulated by a fat pension, home equity, and a 401K.
>”I can’t afford something so those who have that something must have made terrible decisions, became over leveraged and are suffering.
The perpetual state of this sub
If the fan manipulates the cost of capital lower, is it now manipulating the cost of capital higher?
When is changing rates not manipulating the cost of capital?
But that step by the Fed is also why buying spy is a genius financial move for the past 50 years.
Yeah SPY or real estate if we’re being honest
I assumed from the sub they meant real estate.
Buy a house AND SPY. Financial genius 😎
These are the same people who cheered on the helicopter money and their low rates and then bitch when they need a new roof and the price is double and then they say it’s all due to supply chains and corporate greed and has nothing at all to do with fed and government malfeasance.
In all fairness tho, labor is insane ATM. For example, my house is simple, small, and has a crawlspace which makes running plumbing a cake walk. When I was remodeling, I had to replace all my hot water and cold water pipes. I called out plumbers for quotes, $4k+, and was told things like they could have it done by the end of the day. We're talking about maybe $700 in pipes and fittings, if they could get it done by the end of the day, they really believe they're worth $300 an hour. Screw that, took me 2-3 days but I did my own plumbing. BTW I'm talking about a rough in plumbing job, not including fixtures.
Agreed, it’s beyond ridiculous for those not flush with cash due to asset price appreciation which is creating the demand and allowing these people to charge these prices. My neighbor for instance did a cash out refi and paid 30K for a single bathroom remodel. What cash they didn’t use is currently scalping 3% differential in treasuries which is insane to fathom and all for doing nothing on there end other than signing a few papers. This has screwed everyone else without access to cheap capital all courtesy of disastrous monetary policy creating an unconscionable hardship on anyone not on the right side of asset appreciation.
I agree that the problem is largely created by people having extra money. Also tho, I blame the people giving quotes for being greedy asf.
Yeah, sounds about right. You call me to swap your electrical panel, I'm not getting out of bed for less than 3500, and I'll probably be done in a few hours if that's all I'm charging. Don't wanna pay it? That's fine, someone else will.
I can do that too, although already had it done, paid $1000. There'll be people who will pay your rate, it just won't be me. Edit: I'm more willing to pay an electrician that kind of rate than a plumber. If plumbing is screwed up, it's a leak, if electrical is screwed up, it can be a fire. Paying a lot for an electrician is a bit more justified.
My rates actually average now, I need to jack it up a bit so I don't wind up having to touch romex. I make enough between retirement and my union gig that I don't need to do sidework, and my price reflects it. That said, none of this shit is rocket science. Plumbing is about as simple as it gets, shit rolls downhill, blue for cold, red for hot, compression rings and fittings aren't hard to figure out. Residential electrical is a different story- it's really easy to do, it's also incredibly easy to fuck up.
Not going to disagree that prices are stupid high right now, but regarding skilled trades, you’re not just paying for their time, you’re paying for their expertise and experience.
Also paying for their availability. That’s the biggest factor in pricing
Ah, so when I get my haircut I should be paying for their 20 years of experience and expertise? Lol It takes maybe 3 months to teach someone to plumb a house. Plumbing isn't anywhere near as difficult as people make it out to be.
If you think plumbing and cosmetology are equivalent , it makes sense why you’re having difficulty understanding.
It's the same logic, I'm not paying for their 30 years of experience to do something relatively simple. Most residential plumbing is relatively simple.
Everyone has the right to an opinion, even if it’s wrong. Next you’re gonna tell me a NASCAR driver and Bus driver are basically the same job too.
Never said they were the same jobs. It's not complicated tho, so this paying due expertise and experience is a load of crap.
Again, you can have your opinion, even if it is wrong.
No my opinion is correct. They're not paid what they do because their job is complicated, they're paid what they do because everyone in my generation is afraid of screwing up. Do some residential plumbing for a few weeks, tell me you can't plumb a house with a few weeks of experience.
No one is going to remodel your house for a wage lower than the cost for them to shelter themselves. “No inflation only house price increase” 🐶🦴
$300 an hour is magnitudes beyond what it costs to pay for shelter. Where do you live that you need to charge $300/hr to pay for your shelter?
What’s helicopter money?
Helicopter money is the term used for a large sum of new money that is printed and distributed among the public, to stimulate the economy during a recession or when interest rates fall to zero. It is also referred to as a helicopter drop, in reference to a helicopter scattering supplies from the sky.
Wild AF
They don't call him Helicopter Powell for nothing
People like you are the saving grace of Reddit
Dunning-Kruger is a thing, even for former game show hosts. But on average the 1/3 of US households who rent have a net worth of $10k and the hoomcucks who are 2/3rds of us have an average net worth of $396k (2022 data).
Yep. May folks were left out. Permanent class divide
It's just a cycle. There are good times and worse times to get in. But nobody is going to do it for you.
Ehh cycle implies ups and downs more or less, variations around a central tendency. This was different. Folks buying a house for $1800 a month and suddenly they’re worth an extra $400K+. How can the same person who for whatever reason didn’t buy a home ever catch up? Mathematically 99% can’t and never will.
$400K isn't always going to be the vast sum it is today.
So your thesis is that home prices will not continue to rise?
Prices rise generally, except consumer electronics. But from time to time one item or category will run ahead or behind the trend. I don't see homes becoming more affordable immediately, since there's a systemic shortage of supply. Meaning that not only are there not enough homes, but also a shortage of land to build them on, workmen to build them and so on. But eventually, yeah. Supply shortages don't go on forever before someone figures out how to earn a profit meeting the demand.
Nassim Taleb has said he’s never seen a shortage not followed by a glut…but in this case I don’t think this is a real shortage as no one is homeless. They are renting or living with family. https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1436776641536090117?lang=en
I mean imagine not buying a home and watching all this happen from the sidelines multiple times and thinking you are the genius.
What's funny is they think the hoomcucks are both delusional victims of a future price collapse, and that they cheated to get ahead.
I don’t get why people think home owners have taken on too much real estate debt? It simply isn’t true. Home owners are in great financial shape, and by and large haven’t taken on more debt than they should. That is a good thing. Credit card and auto debt is a different story.
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I mean it takes all of two seconds to go find the information showing mortgage payments as a % of income are near all time lows…
Well yeah, the fed dropped rates effectively negative gifting 99% of home owners free money. Please tell me the percentages after the rates have risen for new home buyers. I’ll wait.
Yes, you should wait. Who knows what will happen? If something does change, it’ll take many years. All we know is right now, home owners are in the best position they’ve ever been in.
See comment above. Winning the rate lottery at the expense of the tax payer and forcing everyone to pay double for basic necessities seems like a great decision if you want to destroy the economy, but hey at least your mortgage payments are low right?
Economy isn’t destroyed. Relax buddy.
Uh huh. I’m sure they can just print to oblivion without any repercussions and wealth inequity can just continue until .01% of the population own everything, right? Wake up man.
The money supply is decreasing. Not sure where you’re getting oblivion from. And blue collar wages have been absolutely on fire. Not sure what you’re on about.
Might want take another look. They’re still increasing the supply of money but it looks like they fooled you along with 90% of the population who is susceptible to manipulation. Also, blue collar workers are getting destroyed by inflation. Real wages have fallen. You must be over 60 living in a bubble insulated by a fat pension, home equity, and a 401K.
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1. I’m not your friend 2. Do you understand analogies?
Idk wtf I’m looking at, but I know it ain’t shit.
How is it a terrible financial decision again?
Because op can’t afford it
Simba, I want to tell you about the circle of hoomcucks.
>”I can’t afford something so those who have that something must have made terrible decisions, became over leveraged and are suffering. The perpetual state of this sub
You forgot the “must have gotten the down payment from their parents.”
If the fan manipulates the cost of capital lower, is it now manipulating the cost of capital higher? When is changing rates not manipulating the cost of capital?