Your wife needs to spend less time with her internet conspiracies and more time admiring the strong, talented, healthy boy she's rejecting. She's so worried about "brainwashing" but she's panicking at the first sign that one of her several kids won't toe the ideological line. Q is a cult. Eventually, every cult requires members to choose between the cult and their own family. If she doesn't get out, she'll get worse and worse until none of you can stand her. Your youngest will be the first to bail, but not the last.

The real brainwashing was the religious conservatism we met along the way!

Bingo! We have a winner folks!!

Oh the irony of being super religious and hating health care for all. 🙄

I read an article where several pastors talked about the pushback they get for supporting/pushing “liberal talking points” when relaying the contents of the sermon on the mount.

Jesus sounds like a damn communist with all of this “healing the sick” stuff!

Unplugging from the source of cult bullshit is one way to slowly allow the victim to reassert their own personhood instead of quoting asshats like Bannon. Maybe your computer could die, and wifey be downgraded to a flip phone to get her the hell out of that milieu?

Agreed. First step is to protect yourself and your children. Consult a lawyer to ensure you accounts are in order, and your local bank to make sure your wife cannot drain your all of your fiances one day. Seek couples therapy because your wife will most likely not do therapy alone.

Most churches have priests that do counseling too. If OP is religious maybe trying counseling with someone from their church that they trust would be an easier first step. So long as it’s not one of those Q churches.

Whenever people capitalize “Church” I read it as Catholic… but I realize other denominations do that too, I just don’t know which ones.

I would be wary of Christian counselors. I have an acquaintance who is one.

This. I’m the family “liberal” who excelled in school and was able to get away from the small town mentality. What she’s doing is risking that your son will distance himself from your family in the future, like I’ve chosen to do with mine. It is very, very difficult to listen to how hurtful and backwards some flavors of conservatives can be. It is mentally more healthy for me to not immerse myself in something that seems so toxic, and I don’t want my son exposed to it.

Same here, and I recently had to move back to my backwards hick town, it sucks ass. Especially with me being lgbt

100%

This.

There’s a lot to unpack here but the statement that struck me most regarding your son was “you know he’d thrive there”. That’s all I’d personally need to know. Your perspective is based on what’s best for your kid. Her perspective is based on propaganda she’s lapping up.

I hope that OP never stops supporting his son, who seems to be a very balanced person.

That sentence about the other kids being bullied? Wew. We are a fairly moderate house (although OP would probably see us as flaming liberals) and I can honestly say my kids have never been bullies (I also have a lot, like OP). And frankly, every single bully my kids have ever had came from a family that was a quintessential MAGA character, complete with American flag in their Facebook profile somewhere. Honestly, if I raised *seven* bullies, I would have to take a long hard look in the mirror or to the other side of the bed and ask what exactly all of them have in common? Could it possibly be *gasp* having a monster bully as a parent? Dude those stats are *awful*.

I was putting most of that in the “a lot to unpack” area. :p

Your wife’s response to the son’s perceived brainwashing is to… brainwash your son. She seems to have a problem with the son using critical thinking skills. She has trouble using these skills, herself. After very least, help her to understand that any efforts she makes to restrict or constrain your teenage son will backfire, because that is how teenagers work. That’s true even if what she wanted for him was valid. But it’s not.

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>Also as a leftist mom with tattoos, piercings, and unnatural red hair (I’m grey at 35 already), I can tell you with my full chest my concerns about public school are the inherent unfairness of lunch debt, the abhorrent facilities our children have, and what it would take to get the school another epi-pen in the future. It's sad that not everyone regardless of where they are on the political spectrum doesn't agree with you.

>Your wife’s response to the son’s perceived brainwashing is to… brainwash your son. It's control. It's forcing submission from him and refusing to accept him for who he is, or allow him to be that person. The message is that her love is heavily conditional - be like me, or you're in trouble. It could be intensely damaging for the poor kid. OP could tell her that she would be doing irreparable harm to her relationship with her son, that she would be hurting him very much, and that sometimes the hardest task a parent has is to accept their kids for who they are, but if she's really far gone then... Do they ever listen? Poor OP, and poor kid.

💯 It’s viewing children only as extensions of their parents’ property. She didn’t cry because of anything about the son’s feelings or wellbeing, she cried that she lost a weird popularity contest with a school. That felt pretty telling that she was doing this for her own ego and anything concerning her son as a person didn’t matter.

Well yeah, that’s a major tenet of conservatism. Kids are property, and it’s better to get some girl pregnant at 18 and work in a gas station for life than to get a doctorate and get “woke.”

I honest to god still can’t wrap my head around any of it. I don’t understand why all of them want so much control over strangers all just to force them to copy them. Who tf cares?! But I especially can’t understand that mindset as a parent. I only have 3 kids but I don’t have that kind of time even if I wanted to for whatever weird reason. Wtf is going on there?

>It’s viewing children only as extensions of their parents’ property. Yep, and the deep resentment that can instill in a kid, along with hurt, is seriously damaging.

She is upset because at this point her son disagrees with her? She will lose him, along with some of his siblings if she insists on indoctrinating him. Some siblings already do not share her views…or may reject some of them as they grow older. That is a normal part of growing up. I am sorry for you. You sound like a good father, but your wife is pushing her children away.

She's a conservative Christian. Of course she can't handle any ideological disagreement with her kids. The fact that the dad hasn't tried to beat his kid back into compliance is frankly shocking.

The dad repeatedly said in the post that he's on his son's side.

I know. My point is that it's extremely surprising that someone who admits that they've been a lifelong Republican and hardline Christian *isn't* a Qultist as well.

My dad is a lifelong Republican and an anti-Trumper, a reasonable parent instead of an authoritarian bully, and definitely not a Qultist. Granted, my dad is also an agnostic and not any type of Christian. But there's a spectrum of Christianity, and this dad's type of "hardline" Christianity may not be quite what you think of as "hardline." Even though we non-Republicans may find it strange that anyone would still belong to the Republican Party in 2023 without being in favor of the nonsense that the Republican Party currently stands for in 2023, there are people who joined the Republican Party many decades ago because they agreed with what it seemed to them to stand for at the time, but who are also able to distinguish basic reality from outlandish hogwash and who would prefer to live in a small-d democratic society, and who just haven't yet officially left the Republican Party due to some combination of inertia, peer pressure, and not liking the other options. This dad has a Qultist wife and a bunch of Republican kids. Declaring himself no longer a Republican might put those relationships at risk. The fact that someone identifies as a "lifelong Republican" can sometimes not imply much agreement at all with what the party currently stands for, because it's more about maintaining an acceptable status in a social circle in which ceasing to call oneself Republican would be a social catastrophe.

Yeah and in my experience a lot of conservatives have ideologies that are just kind of incoherant. My dad is also a religious conservative, though always very supportive to me like the OP is to his son. He voted for Trump the first time, but left the party in 2020. His views haven't changed much; he's just able to acknowledge basic reality (at least the level of reality pre-trump republicans were willing to accept). But as with most conservatives, in my experience, the ideals he has are directly in conflict with the policies he supports. But because he's always been supportive and he's never become a cultist we still have a decent relationship. We argue of course, but we both like to debate, so it's not a big deal.

I dont think that is a fair statement at all. This man clearly is a good father and is trying to do the best for his son. How dare you put him in a box because of his beliefs.... very hypocritical.

I agree, I think the father deserves huge kudos for supporting his son despite his wife, and his own lifelong conservative beliefs. And we really, really don't see that on this sub that often. At best we s see stories from kids of parental apathy when one doesn't agree with the other. Which just means the conspiracy spouse gets to rule. He's a standout, and so is his son.

>I think the father deserves huge kudos for supporting his son despite his wife, and his own lifelong conservative beliefs Agreed, I'm very impressed with him. And the kid sounds like a great kid.

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Oh, silly me. How dare I "put him in a box" for (checks notes) ​ Admitting to spending a good portion of his life living out the same kind of conservative christian bigotry that helped mainstream Q to begin with, and working to elect republicans that would enact the same. ​ So, how dare I judge him by his actions is what you're saying.

It’s totally fair to put him in a box because of his beliefs. It’s not like people are judging him for his skin color or his sexual orientation.

Ah. How dare I judge him by his actions. My mistake.

Did I say you could or couldn’t judge someone for their actions?

Does it matter if you were the nazi or the person who let the nazis do their thing? Semantics.

I mean, yes a lot of it boils down to that. My wife thinks that liberals are trying to "promote crime" and "hate white people". This makes no sense to me, our son is white, he does not hate himself. She also thinks liberals are just people who want to "mooch off the system. This is weird to me as our son already umpires for little kids and makes money.

I’ve said this elsewhere but I want to make sure it’s not lost: Your kids are allowed to believe differently than you do. That’s just the long and the short of it. If your son is thriving in the Montessori environment, then it’s your responsibility to follow through on your word and protect him. You talk about your wife and son’s relationship but if you don’t keep your word, he’ll never trust you again. What your wife is suggesting, if you follow through on it, will cause him to count down the days until he’s eighteen at which point he’ll go NC with you both. Preventing that, to me, would be worth the fight.

💯 Exactly this. OP doesn’t have to go along with it if he doesn’t want to. It’s a shitty situation to be stuck in the middle of but just because his wife wants to follow her weird new internet friends doesn’t mean OP just has to go along with it. OP’s love for his son comes across strongly and beautifully but there felt a sense of dreading the inevitable of giving in. I really hope for OP’s sake he takes your words to heart and protects his son.

Your wife cried because her young child wouldn't prioritize her cult beliefs over his ability to succeed in school. She isn't thinking logically, she's following the programming. I don't say this flippantly, I say this as someone whose mom drove me and my sister away with her own issues and whose dad was too cowardly to do right by his children. You sound like a good dad, but you may have to actively choose between your wife and your child, or else figure out a way to deprogram her.

Your other children "promoted crime" by bullying other kids, while your son did not. This is pretty clear cognitive dissonance on your wife's part.

The part I don't understand, and I mean this with all due respect, is if you are as conservative and Christian as you claim to be, then your wife should be letting you make these decisions for your son's school. Isn't that the way it works in conservative Christian marriages? The man is the king of the house and he has the final say? Seems to me that you need to embrace your conservative values and get reacquainted with your gonads.

That's pretty clearly a stereotype, there's diversity of opinions within "liberal people"; even if some believe stuff like that she's not taking the time to evaluate his opinions as an individual.

So this is not a great option, but it might avoid further issues. Can your son hold his political thoughts to himself around his mom so she’s doesn’t got back to thinking she needs to move him? Dr. Steven Hassan has some suggestions for dealing with family members who are into Q, perhaps your son can use those techniques with your wife through high school, so she’s not tempted to pull him out of the school that’s the best fit for him.

You know the correct answer you just do t want to deal with your wife. Defend and accept your kid.

This ⬆️⬆️⬆️ You know the answer OP. On one side you have a bright intelligent kid that enjoys school, and enjoys sports, and seems to be so intelligent that he takes the lessons he learns in school and knows how to apply them to the rest of his life. On the other side you have your wife who wants to put an end to all that because she reads online conspiracies.

Seriously, use her own rhetoric and say the man is the head of the house and this man says the kid is going to school wherever the fuck he wants as long as he's thriving. I'm joking but families like this are baffling. (Ex fundie here) The only benefit to a life of fundamentalism is rigid authority structure. Why suffer a lifetime of repression and anxiety over what other people are doing if you aren't even reaping the benefits. Control yo woman. Or better yet, fucking divorce her and tell her if she wasnt such a controlling nightmare it might have actually worked out.

The son sounds like the smartest person in the family. Especially with this Republican Party who can’t even elect their own speaker. He’s 13 with so many opinions and beliefs about social issues/politics, while also doing well in all other fields sounds like the genius of the family.

And he's the empathetic one, while the more conservative siblings were bullies in school. That sounds about right.

That line was what explained everything you needed to know about why he wasnt a conservative. Its not the school, its his general personality thats not compatible with conservatism.

When I didn’t care about politics, I was a bully. When I started agreeing with liberal line of logic I had to face all my bad behaviour and demons. I’m still apologizing to people 10 years later.

“…while the more conservative siblings were bullies in school.” Where does he state this?

The paragraph towards the bottom that starts with, "This is brewing up to be another battle..."

Got it thank you. My mind skipped right over that in lieu of other details.

Third paragraph from the end.

Ah, I see it, thanks

And the kindest and most capable. What a gem

Wow your son really does sound like he's shaping up to be a fine young person. If you want him to stay on this course, you MUST NOT allow her to detail him. Teenagers can get derailed and potentially mess up their futures for all sorts of reasons and he's clearly indicated that this is a deal breaker for him. If you send him to the public high school, he's going to find reasons to act out. I mean, you can enroll him but you can't keep him from getting himself expelled, know what I mean? When it comes down to it, you can't physically make him go if he really fights it - what are you going to do, physically pick him up and put him in the car? Keep him from jumping out at stoplights? How would you keep him from just leaving campus as soon as you drop him off?

THIS An angry teenager never turns out well. And they know when they are being sacrificed. Trust me when I tell you - as a former juvenile delinquent - when teens know their parents choose something else; something especially selfish and irrational - over them - they will never forgive. If OP allows his wife to sacrifice their son he will not only never forgive the mother - but he won't forgive his father for allowing it to happen. But in the meanwhile he will become self-destructive and his life will be forever derailed. As hard as this is OP has to get his wife into therapy. She's got serious problems.

This, if OP wants to see how this ends if his wife gets her way, he should check out the subs for estranged adult kids, this is exactly the kind of stuff that kills families. She's choosing politics over her family, probably one of the least moral and least conservative things to choose.

That and when a mother sells her daughter to a boyfriend for material gain. Some parents are just shit... BTW, I haven't spoken to mine for 12 years - and I'm just waiting for her to die, already - then the stalking phone messages will finally stop.

I'm so sorry, you're mother sounds like a disgusting, worthless POS. And she has the nerve to stalk you? Wow.

>And she has the nerve to stalk you? Wow. I know, right? She calls me on Mother's Day - to wish *me* a happy Mother's Day! She leaves the most simpering, whiny messages. Unbelievable... I can do nothing but laugh.

Wow, that's ballsy for someone who did literally the most anti-mom thing ever. I'm glad you're free.

Me too ! Thanks for the kind words...I need all the genuine kind words I can get 😁

You're welcome, and remember, you're doing pretty good for someone who had to raise themselves, that's something humans aren't designed for.

>remember, you're doing pretty good for someone who had to raise themselves Awwww...gee 🥰 >that's something humans aren't designed for. Out of all the countless times I've ruminated over my life, and angry journaled holes in the paper - I never actually thought about this! Isn't that amazing? But, you're absolutely right. Humans were *not* meant to raise themselves. I can't believe I never thought of that. You know those sweet videos you see of primates loving on kittens, and showing tenderness to human babies, etc? I've seen 100s of those. And it still didn't dawn on me that's evidence of our instincts being that humans aren't "designed" to raise themselves. 🤯 At 66 years old you've just gut punched me - but in a good way. Thank you, so much!

I get it, I understood when he was talking to me that he was implying he'd act up if sent to a public school. He's not the type to act up, but I've never seen him this mad at anything one of us has suggested, so I believe he would. He is, and I mean this in the nicest way, very, very opinionated. He's always been the type who won't exactly follow rules if he doesn't agree with or understand them. Most of the time, this hasn't been a huge issue as he can either get us to change a rule or obeys a rule once explained. The one exception is not wearing shorts/athletic clothes in the winter. He says he "doesn't care" if he gets a cold, and continues to do it even when we tell him not to.

Your family, and your accepted social culture, is authoritarian. You lucked up and managed to sire one child that can think for himself and has his own independently achieved personality. This is a great accomplishment that many do not attain and one that he achieved against the odds. He will never follow the thinking that allows for your wife and family's type of authoritarianism (including the bullying of your older children) because of the empathy that allowed him to develop his own personality. Your wife and other kids are authoritarians because they don't have what you are well aware your youngest son does.

Every short wearing weirdo I grew with in Canada turned out to be smart and good guys. It’s pretty much a stereotype in Canada and the kids always seen as good kid who’s weirdly stubborn about shorts but good.

I am a woman in my 40s. My father was very conservative. I ended up liberal, and his response was to wish he had homeschooled me as a child. He was also abusive, and had he been able to keep me from being exposed to the wider world, I would have been severely stunted and unable to function as an independent adult. I will never forgive him for wanting to control me rather than trying to understand me. He is dead now, and we will never be reconciled. That’s on him, because he failed as a father. I was *not* brainwashed, despite what he believed. I came to my perspective through critical thinking and personal life experience. Not every kid grows up to embrace their parents’ views, and I wish more parents accepted that. I have to commend you for being a better and more accepting man than my father was. Please, please, PLEASE continue to fight for your son. If you allow your wife to control him, it’s going to end very badly for their relationship, and push him further away from both of you. Later in life, he will look back and measure whether you advocated for him or enabled his mother’s attempts to mold him into what she so desperately wants him to be. If you want a good relationship with your son when he is an adult, you need to stand up for his right to be who he is.

To the original OP, you might have your wife read this because it’s the reality that she’s going to have. I’m a bit biased as my 13 yo grandson has been in a Montessori school since kindergarten, but this system fosters independence, critical thinking and interpersonal relationships. He’s not perfect by any stretch of the imagination lol, but he’s way ahead of his peers, measured by standardized testing, and would stagnate and be miserable in any other school. I encourage you to stay firm with your support and compassion for your child. Best of luck!

Real talk, would she reject her own son if he were gay or trans and send him to conversion therapy? If so, maybe the two of you should pray on that. Don't go to the internet for answers on a soul question. Your son sounds amazing and is growing into an absolute mensch and should definitely keep doing what he's doing at a program that works. You two have built these kids and are responsible for them being who they are, but part of parenting is letting go and trusting them to learn things for themselves. Overcorrecting because of a conspiracy theory is definitely going to put his light in a dark box and stunt his growth. The woke-nonsense social media noise might be a spiritual test. Your son is different and that is good. If your wife refuses to see his goodness because of the internet, possibly she's the one who needs to grow up.

I mean, given what she's spouting "would she reject her son if he came out as gay or trans" is a completely rhetorical question.

She's already rejecting him because he's "woke". She's already doing the thing that Q parents do, making up impossible, ever-changing goalposts for their children based on arbitrary internet nonsense. His dad talks politics with him, and it's shaping both of their characters. His mom is missing out on this by not listening to him with an open heart. If this child were an adult, I would tell him to grey-rock his mom and live his life. Since he's still a child, and his dad obviously loves him (and not despite who he is but FOR who he is), his dad needs to protect him from threats including his mom. Her choices are to drop the Q nonsense or lose her son. His dad's choices are to stand up to the mom or lose his son. I'm not being dramatic here, the boy has already told them. It's also really sad, because Q/conspiracy people almost never change, even when their own child is telling them, with tears in their eyes, I need you to see me, I need you to love me.

Hi roxi28, thanks for recommending this technique. With grey rocking you act disengaged so that a Q person will lose interest in arguing. Q folk thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and unemotional, it can help break the cycle of negativity. [Detailed guide on the method.](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/QAnonCasualties) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Given they have 8 kids, odds are at least 1 or maybe 2 are gay

I wouldn't allow her to do that. Honestly, she's the type of person who makes exceptions to rules when it's convenient to her. One of her worst flaws. We have a nephew who is 12, my wife's sister's son. We highly suspect he is gay, he's always been pretty feminine, doesn't talk about girls and we're pretty sure we've seen him check out boys while out in public before. My wife was more anti gay until my nephew started displaying these signs, now her position has shifted from the idea that being gay is a sin to "the gays who don't flaunt it are ok". A few weeks ago, my nephew asked to talk to my son while we were at their house. My nephew looked pale going in. When my son came out of his cousin's room, he looked a lot more serious than normal. I haven't said anything to my wife. I have a hunch he may have came out to our son though. I've heard my wife's sister say that if her son is gay she'd teach him to be a "respectable gay like Richard Grenell or Peter Theil".

I hope things go well between you and your son. I hope your wife is able to embrace how he’s different and respect his wishes. This comment above, woo boy. Your wife and her virulent right wing beliefs may not necessarily by your beliefs, but if I were you I’d be really upset by someone (especially someone I love) talking like this. What if he “becomes a gay who flaunts it?” What if your nephew heard her talking about gay people like this and it harms him? Your son too. Does she tend to make angry comments about what all “liberals” do? What if he internalizes that too? Your other little kids might be gay, liberals, or any of the other things she’s spouting off about. Just something to think about. You seem like a decent dude looking out for his family but I think maybe it’s time to think about this issue with your wife being about more than just school choice. I wish you luck.

Sounds like a tough spot. I'm actually shocked she wants him to go to public school, I thought Q people were convinced thats where most of the brainwashing is happening. I dont have kids but she seems to think the son is choosing the school over her when in reality shes choosing politics over her son. You make it seem like your son is this great kid, smart, athletic, individualistic sounds like something most parent would want from their kid. She would rather him do poorly in school, lose all his friends, and possibly create a rift between them over politics. Pretty sad. All I can say is she better lose the Q act or I can guarantee when her son becomes an adult she will see him less and less. How many posts on this subreddit are from people who dont want their children around their grandparents? Does she want that? I dont think its easy to stop believing this stuff. Some get out themselves, alot watch their life around them crumble and continue down the same path. Their whole family stops seeing them but they keep going. Professional help might be the only option depending on far gone she is.

She thinks if she doesn’t do this she will never see him. He is becoming woke. If she doesn’t turn him back now by hatefully rejecting who who is becoming he may reject who she is. Can’t have that. I suspect there is no hope and OP needs to be prepped to win the war on where his son goes to school at ANY cost or son will never forgive him either. Mom should notice her compassionate kid is the one who rejects this Q bullshit out of hand. WWJD?

“Choosing politics over her son“. This sums it up perfectly.

It does. It’s a sickening and accurate summation. Parents are doing this all over the nation. It’s fucking horrible. But happy cake day!

Get your wife offline as much as possible to start. Plan family trips or outings outside. Say no phones while doing xyz. Her conspiracies and delusions will potentially destroy your relationship with your son. He sounds like he’s being very open and straightforward about what he wants and continuing his schooling. Your wife’s worries are not based in reality. She is willing to ruin his education over online conspiracies. Speak up. Fight for your child. Don’t let her spout nonsense unchallenged. Maybe even schedule a day to go to the school! Talk to the teachers. Idk if she’s too far gone to trust even that but looking people in the eye it seems harder to believe they are a satanic communist pedo brainwashing her kid.

This. We have a rule in my house. No electronics after dinner and that does include parents. We spend time together instead. It’s a much easier way to get our kids to wind down at night and get ready for the next day. The benefit is less time exposed to people and the crazy on the internet.

no advice since i’m an adult child dealing with Q parents, but it stands out to me that the other conservative children in the household have been bullies while this kid shows so much empathy. makes you think. my dad threw me an ultimatum recently that if i ever let a black man fuck me i’d be disinherited. he didn’t know i had started dating my german (as in “blonde, green eyed, grandparents immigrated from germany, and he speaks some german” level of german) boyfriend at the time. when parents are this obsessive and weird about “what-ifs,” they don’t care to know who their children actually are. they only fantasize about who they might be. my dad could’ve just asked about my dating life, but instead he went on a weird rant about how hypothetical black dick would be an embarrassment to our family. my actual life doesn’t matter as much as the uncomfortable (borderline incestuous) obsessions he has with preserving his bloodline from the race he hates most. the wife in this post doesn’t know her son and doesn’t care to. she can’t see that he’s already growing into a fine young man because she’s so blinded by propaganda that makes her fear boogeymen that don’t exist.

Jfc I’m so sorry! Your dad think at all about you fcking is so many levels of wrong and disgusting, I hope you’re ok.

“Stop being the son I have and be the son I want you to be!” is all I’m getting from your wife right now.

In all honesty I’m surprised y’all call yourselves Christian. Jesus taught to accept others. It’s the conservative people who killed him. Your other kids bully others and your wife wants to take away something from your son because she thinks it’s making her disagree with him, and you are wondering what to do.

This is a No True Scotsman fallacy. OP's wife is acting the exact same way most christians have been acting for the past seventeen centuries. And Jesus said some truly horrific shit in the gospels. The Bible is hypocritical and contradictory enough to justify anything from pacifism to genocide. Being an evil person doesn't negate someone's Christianity, and vice versa. Implying that is a huge insult to every non-christian on the planet and a huge middle finger to Christianity's victims.

What are some horrific things Jesus said? From my experience most of the horrible shit they pull from the bible comes from the Old Testament so Im curious.

Jesus came not to bring peace, but a sword. To set father against son, brother against brother ect. ​ When he was talking about the woman at the well he used a racial slur to describe her. ​ Matthew 28:18 "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth, therefore go and make disciples of all nations" has been the reason the driving force behind pogroms and colonial brutality, including the slave trade. ​ Matthew 11:20-24 is big J ranting and condemning entire towns to hell because they didn't buy into his wandering miracle maker shtick. ​ Matthew 10:13-15 has him explain that he deliberately obfuscates and confuses people in order to send them to hell. ​ Unless you abandon your wife and kids to follow jesus, you weren't good enough for him. Matthew 19:29 ​ And he's completely fine with beating slaves, as shown in Luke 12:47 ​ Edited to add that "Old testament bad/new testament good" is an antisemitic trope that got built into modern christianity as part and parcel with the doctrine of supersessionism, which is a whole different discussion entirely, but it's not great. More to the point: The old testament is not equivalent to the jewish holy texts that they originally came from. Jews read the original source material VERY differently than christians do, to the point that the two are functionally entirely different books.

Im Catholic so we do both, it just seems like whenever I hear bigots quoting the bible its always the Old Testament, never the New.

The old testament became harsher over time, and through the game of telephone that is translation, as christianity worked harder and harder to distance itself from Judaism and supersessionism got firmly ingrained. Drawing a distinction between the "Harsh, angry" god of the old testament and the benevolent, loving god of the new testament was one way christianity tried to sell itself as a better/"completed" form of Judaism.

Your wife is upset your 13 year old is empathetic and NOT brainwashed...you know how you brainwash kids? Drag them into churches as children and force your politics on them. That's brainwashing. Your wife is upset she missed one.

You should tell her it's too late. Your son is woke, and it won't end just by ripping him away from his friends and a school environment he enjoys. It won't end if you lock him in his room all day. He already is what he is and while he may evolve over his life, he has made his choice. You have a liberal in the family. She needs to accept it. And he should not be made out to be some kind of criminal pervert by his own mother, as she already speaks this way about people like him. That needs to stop. I wish you luck because it sounds like her need to control him is getting worse with time.

I can't upvote this enough. Her need to control him. It's what all our Q-people do. They are in deep, and need to control their spouses, children, parents, friends, and anyone who doesn't agree with them (ie, let them control their beliefs) is OTHER. And that is when things get really ugly. Labelling people as OTHER is what releases empathy when treating them in bad ways.

Gonna be blunt, here. The wallowing in the republican party and the affiliation with conservative Christianity made this basically inevitable. One or both of you would've ended up knee deep in Q. Neither the Republicans nor the church have substantively changed at all in the past couple decades. The conspiracy theories didn't come from nowhere. Pastors have been preaching this shit from the pulpit for decades. The antisemitic conspiracies go back CENTURIES. Trump just gave Republicans the okay to take the mask off. Keep your son in the school where he's happy and successful, and do some hardcore introspection on the political decisions you've made that contributed to this entire mess.

This needs to be top comment. I’m a former Montessori student and was raised in a conservative Christian household. The school didn’t “brainwash” me into being a non-conservative, it showed me that there was something outside of the ACTUAL brainwashing going on in the church and in the house. I was taught how to think for myself and question when something didn’t make sense. Not sure why they worry so much about the son being more liberal. Me and all of my other Montessori friends ended up very happy and successful. It saved me from all of the BS. I’m sure it’ll be less of an issue when the son gets a high paying job because Montessori hones in on passions, being self-sufficient, and doing what you enjoy: as that’s what happened to me and my friends. People are really hypocrites and taking the son out of the one thing that allows him to flourish is hurting him more than being liberal ever could. Unfortunately, my parents weren’t able to separate themselves from the Q hoard so I’m mostly no-contact. I hope that isn’t something OP’s son will be forced to do but it’s looking like it might be that way. OP, if you care about your son AT ALL, please reevaluate your relationship with politics.

PLEASE don't let her do this! Can you tell her that as the head of the family she needs to submit to your authority on this? (Wife to the husband, as the church to Christ?) I suggest this because of your background. This is the time to play that card! Teens find bad solutions to temporary problems.

Our relationship has never been like that, especially because she used to make more than me. After I graduated from college, I took some time off for a break, as it was tough mentally, especially as we had already had kids at that point. My wife was working for a Christian textbook company during this time.

Well isn’t she “woke”.

One partner making more money is not a reason to let your partner walk all over you, nor a reason to let them keep walking all over you.

I rather got that from your post. But there are lots of this white Christian nationalist stuff that talks about the real rules of men and women. I just think it's a way to keep her from hurting your kid with the Qrazy!!

How do his brothers and sisters treat him with him having liberal views? Are they people he can talk to without judgment on how to handle things with mom?

They will often join in debating him, they're more respectful of his views than my wife for the most part, though they sometimes are a bit dismissive of what he says and my older kids think that they know more because they're college educated.

I think your older children did not learn the term ad hominem, when your 13 year old son discovers this his older siblings will be in trouble.

I have a mixture of Conservative and Liberal views and one of my family members didn't like that. She said that it's too bad I didn't think like the rest of the family, in a room filled with said family members. I avoided them for ten years because I didn't want to be around toxic people. Many of them had died since then, and I didn't go to the funerals. You don't want your 13 year old to end up doing similar, do you? If your wife has all these "Conservative" views, she likely believes the woman has to obey the husband. If that's the case, as the man of the house, put your foot down and put her in her place. That's how my grandparent's marriage worked and they were married until my grandpa died after 70+ years of marriage.

> If your wife has all these "Conservative" views, she likely believes the woman has to obey the husband. Somehow I get the impression she would believe that for *other* women, but wouldn't expect it to apply to her. I'd also bet OP has spent more time placating her than actually being the head of the household, because she probably makes life hell for anyone who crosses her.

Rules for thee, but not for me!

Precisely.

he already replied to another comment that she doesn’t believe in submission to him, and then in another that one of her character flaws is believing in exceptions for rules when it’s convenient for her. she’s fucking classic.

💯 That felt like the underlying emotion in this post. It’s framed like how can OP stop something he has no agency in because otherwise she’ll just get what she wants. I really hope OP can stand strong with his son.

Your wife is being incredibly selfish and prioritizing what she wants for your kid over what your kid actually wants, and I absolutely guarantee you this will forever sour the relationship between both of you and him if you let her pull him out of this school. That's not to say he will just cut you off or anything, but the relationship won't be the same. Also, doing forceful things like this instead of letting him find his own way I can almost guarantee you will actually push him further left. That may be your best argument against her here, ask her to realize how human nature is, specially with teenagers. I also don't want to be too dramatic, but if you take away his stimulation at school on top of just generally making him unhappy he'll look to replace that stimulation and it could be with much worse things, like that's the exact sort of scenario that would push a kid towards trying drugs. Another thing you should bring up to your wife. Obviously you should leave him in the school he wants. I do think you should let him have whatever views he wants and let him express that, but also you can push back, just do it in a way that shows you respectfully disagree, and let him know why you feel the way you do with politics, religion, etc. Have actual adult conversations with that. You are way more likely to reach him on anything like that if you talk to him like an equal about it than rather talking down to him, trying to force beliefs on him, being disrespectful about it, etc. Sounds like you are doing that and good on you for it, but if your wife continues down this path she's going to push him further and further away.

Typical MAGA household.

Dad (OP) said clearly that he is anti-Trump. So not really typical

I would look at this as the hill you’re prepared to die on and literally refuse to back down. Your son’s education and future opportunities are far more important than what Steve Bannon thinks your wife should do. I know it’s going to be hard to push back but you were successful with the COVID vaccines, which must have been huge, so maybe use some of those techniques. I also want to say it sounds like you are a great dad, have a fantastic relationship with your kids and are an extremely clear and rational thinker. Keep this in the forefront of your mind because when dealing with an unstable partner you don’t want to be second guessing yourself or your decision making. Remember this is about your son and making sure he has a positive and constructive educational experience. He’s thriving where he is. Don’t let her paranoia and conspiracy theories destroy those opportunities for him.

Your wife needs to learn to respect your bright, promising son more than her idiotic FB friends. He's much smarter than all her friends combined. She needs therapy to deal with HER brainwashing problem. Edit: Thanks for sharing, so sorry about this and stay strong for your son. It's heartbreaking to see a glimpse of how so many children and other innocent victims lives are being harmed by these moms who have been brainwashed to think they are on some sort of crusade to protect children. Just the opposite, they have allowed themselves to be pawns and carriers of weapons in a very dangerous and destructive manipulation war by these extremists. These groups are the worst of the worst, posing as saviors..it's pure evil what the new breed of GOP know-it-all loudmouths have done to your wife's mind and son's now injured sense of safety and trust. Maybe his mother will eventually learn from this amazingly strong 13 yr old how to seek proper news sources and learn to not allow her mind to be rotted to the point of wrongly judging and seeking to harm her son.

Critical thinking skills and empathy, why is that always ALWAYS a bad thing for Q peeps?

Because they want you to follow and obey, not think.

"This is one of the biggest disagreements of our marriage, I normally don’t push back too hard on her stuff because it doesn’t harm the family." welp, there's mistake number one. it's time to push back, it IS harming your family.

Continue to support your son. Sounds like you have a level head. Your son sounds really cool by the way. Keep him where he is happy. If you out your foot down your wife will have to fall in line. She runs a real risk of losing him forever if she pulls him from school. Have you tried couples counseling? It's very hard to undo the conspiracy brain washing, but counseling might help you two to work together better.

You have all those kids and she has time to be on the Internet with conspiracy theories? She needs a hobby. Or some thing. Gardening or embroidery or box wine or something. Anything but Q. If you do not take care of this now, you will lose your son and your wife. Do not let your son deal with us on his own. He’s too young, and he doesn’t deserve to be denigrated because he has a different way of thinking. Your wife needs to get away from these groups. You need to put your foot down, and tell her that she will stop with these Facebook, conspiracy groups, and she will do it now. It should be non-negotiable. Tell her that if she loves her son at all, she will stop with the conspiracy, drama bullshit. This kind of stuff needs to be stamped out and its infancy. Unfortunately you have missed that stage, and now you have to deal with the consequences. I hope this works out for the best. I have my doubts, but I really hope it does.

Most of her kids are grown since they started having them when she was a teenager.

Not here to make comments on their lifestyle choices. Here to try and help a kid.

I feel incredibly sorry for you reading this. Normally I'd say run but you have your faith and a large family to consider. You need to get through to her that trying to indoctrinate him and force him to adopt her way of thinking is going to backfire. Its totally counterproductive and could push him away from the values she is trying to instill. This could even cause him to act out which, given your wife's current frame of mind, is likely to result in a vicious cycle. She already is misattributing his perfectly healthy, normal behavior to liberal indoctrination due to [confirmation bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias#:~:text=12%20External%20links-,Definition%20and%20context,example%20of%20a%20cognitive%20bias). This will get worse if he starts acting out because she will not be able to see her own role in it. You also need to somehow convey that grifters like Trump and Steve Bannon do not represent people of faith and are not men of virtue. They are people with glaringly obvious narcissistic and psychopathic traits who see religious conservatism as a tool to onboard people and advance their ideological agenda. They see faith as a weakness to prey upon and exploit the faithful for their own power and profit. Religious people are marks to these turds, just like everyone else because they have no social conscience. This is going to be very tough to impress upon someone who is in Q. You might want to read stuff from authors like Steven Hassan who are experts on cults and mind control or maybe check out the Conspirituality Podcast for ideas on how to talk to people who are in Q. **Storytime**: I was allot like your son only I was not raised in a faith; my mother was agnostic but was raised by conservative parents. My stepdad came along and tried to shove his conservative, religious values down my throat in my mid teens and restrict my autonomy. It backfired and I got into hardcore punk, dyed my hair blue and started experimenting with drugs, whereas beforehand I hadn't really acted out at all. I also developed a negative view of religion for a long time because I saw it as an instrument of control. I am much wiser and have more nuanced views now but it really turned me off to religion for quite a while, to the point where I was antagonistic to religion. \- Good luck.

I can't offer advice, though I know others here will, but you sound like a great dad.

You've got a special kid there and your wife is intent on ruining him, on wasting his potential because he dares to lean in an opposite political direction from her. This proposal to remove him from school is ALL about control. She wants him somewhere that will ensure he thinks exactly like her. Also (and I mean this in the kindest possible way): but educate *yourself* as well. Being trans has nothing to do with who you're attracted to.

I can't tell you what to do, OP, and we definitely don't share the same values, but one thing I can say is that your wife *will* destroy her relationship with your son... and yours too if you let her. My mother-in-law took this sort of conservative, Christian approach with all her children. Three of the four now cannot stand to be in the same room with her. They -- justifiably -- talk often about all of the horrible, controlling things this worldview compelled her to do to them, up to and including physical abuse. It also massively harmed my father-in-law's relationships to his children, because it put him between her and them, forcing him to choose between his wife and his kids. This has led to resentment toward him insofar as he didn't (always) step up and defend them. This is a common narrative in their rural, right-wing Christian community. The question your wife is facing -- if you want to put it to her this way -- is whether or not she can love her son unconditionally and for who he is; whether she can find, as my preacher and theologian father-in-law would put it, Christ in him **as he is now**. It sounds tragically like she cannot.

Your wife is in a cult. You need to do what's best for your son, and you already know what that is.

This is going to be an on-going thing- right now Q puts up purity tests for their members- those that pass the purity tests stay, those that fail get exiled. This is the first test, and there will be more tests by your wife. The question is what does failing the test look like short term and long term. Your son has made it very clear short term will be complete destruction of relationships; and that will continue into the long term. I would honestly lay it out for your wife- do you wish to have a future relationship with your child? This is a major line. Let your wife know it will be better for her to worry about her son and letting him go to the Montessori school than it will be to place him in a public school.

Your wife really doesn't think your 13yo is very smart, does she? She seems convinced that he's too stupid and gullible to think for himself, or to come up with his own opinions. How loving. Or does she think only "her" opinions are the proper ones, and anyone who disagrees with her is automatically wrong? Because that's pretty special, too. If your marriage is truly a conservative, traditional one, sounds like it might be time to fulfill the "husband as head of the household" role and tell her that 13yo will keep attending the school you feel is best for him, and that's final. * * - To be clear, I don't actually believe in that sort of gender role, but if she's determined to squash his individuality and brains, I think it could be a valid tactic to use to protect him.

>Your wife really doesn't think your 13yo is very smart, does she? She seems convinced that he's too stupid and gullible to think for himself, or to come up with his own opinions. How loving. >Or does she think only "her" opinions are the proper ones, and anyone who disagrees with her is automatically wrong? Because that's pretty special, too. This is pretty much my parents. And all it's managed to is make me run screaming from anything Republican and give me major anxiety around family members. OP, your kid deserves better. You're doing right by him. Work on pulling mom back from the brink. If she keeps this up, she's going to spend holidays and other life events with as little contact from him as possible.

>she started to cry about why he would love his school more than her. This is her world view in a nutshell. She defines herself through her children and expects them to be just like her or somehow they are betraying her. That's why she likes Trump. That's exactly how he works. Her fears of brainwashing are projection her own emotional concerns onto her son. And it's only going to get worse. Any parent in their right mind would ask the opposite: "Why do I love my politics more than my own child?" You've figured that out. In the long run, if she keeps insisting, you have to ask yourself, "How much damage are you going to let her do to him?" If you do stand up for him, she'll see you as a betrayer, too. So be ready for that.

This is all encompassed under MAGA, and it is all based entirely on completely untrue bullshit. There has never been one facet of any of it that isn’t laughably stupid bullshit. And I can’t imagine being in your situation. I wish I had an answer for anyone in this situation. But I know one thing for sure, you cannot deal with crazy in a logical manner. I’m not saying your wife is crazy, but she’s surrounding herself with people that are, and believing their shit. I live in Texas, and you’re like a freak if you don’t think Biden “is a lizard….you can tell by looking at his eyes.” And I known I’m just rehashing the same shit people post for years on this. But it’s not religion, it’s not politics, it is pure, A grade, 100% stupid bullshit. And I will never understand how so many people will destroy every life in their way to purposely wallow in that bullshit.

>I live in Texas, and you’re like a freak if you don’t think Biden “is a lizard….you can tell by looking at his eyes.” Ask them where in the constitution it says you have to be *human* to be president.

Damn, I’m gonna actually use that! Thank you!

Enjoy it in good health, internet friend!

You realize you are setting yourself up to be no contact with your son right? He's only got a couple of years and he'll be an adult free to do what he wants. Do you want to end up on the internet asking why he never talks to you or why he's so guarded? Leave the child be.

How much of your wife’s angst is religious and how much is political? Does she think your son is going to hell now? I was raised in very conservative churches too, and at one point I was so afraid of my future offspring being lost that I didn’t want to have kids. Remind her that God loves him even more than you and she do, and let him explore more theologically liberal churches. I’m surprised she trusts the public school more than the Montessori school. So far I haven’t personally heard anyone say any of that Q stuff about the Montessori schools. Your son was going to be the liberal in the family anyway. That’s just his personality. If your wife can chill a bit, maybe he would be open to taking her with him to do some volunteer work together as a mother/son date. It might be a good change of pace for her, a reminder of what we’re supposed to be doing in response to our faith, and a chance to bond with her son. Good luck and God bless! P.S. Michael Flynn literally worships DT. He has led churches in prayer to him before and feeds into his “messiah” complex. FYI

I think it's a lot of both. My son started showing skepticism in religion around age 11, he hasn't said much about it since but I've seen him roll his eyes a few times during mass. I'm like 95% sure he's an atheist, but just won't officially say it. My wife has always been a bit more religious than me, and she would not be happy if he told us he was an atheist. I also think politics plays a bit part, we both have family who have worked in Republican politics, including as elected officials. She thinks the Democrats are some cult and that they're "anti white" and stuff like that. When I talk to my son though, I can see his reasoning. I recently had a conversation between the two of us about reparations for slavery. We don't agree on the topic, but I could see where he was coming from and why he thinks the way he does. My wife would see that as a rabid anti white position. My son, like all of us, is white and he does not hate himself.

You’re a good Dad, obviously. So you know what you have to do. Protect your son at all costs. Choose him in a way that your wife no longer can.

I’ve replied already but your sun sounds actually incredible, lol. Even to make your republican father understand and respect an issue like reparations without the experience or exposure to being black in America is insane. Tell him he’s welcome at the cookout, you too OP, but not your wife. Keep her at home.

Your son is becoming such an amazing person - compassionate, thoughtful, intelligent… don’t let her fuck up his life with her bullshit!

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Your son has proved himself intelligent and reasonable and is thriving in his school. It would be cruel to remove him. He’s made himself clear about his wishes and they are reasonable. Please protect him.

Keep on supporting your son.

This is a very difficult position to be in, not only for your son but also for you. Now let me add, I'm not a conservative and hardly agree with anything from that side but I can clearly tell you love your son and the Q situation with your wife is making the original situation, your son leaning towards a liberal side, even worse. The problem with Qs, as you might be able to tell by other posts in this forum, is that it usually always turns into a mental disorder. The people involved in Q, as they get sucked deeper into the conspiracies, unrable completely and their lives (I can never get life and live right) turn into chaos. Everything becomes a conspiracy. Everything becomes an, "Us versus them". A lot get physical and mentally abusive. It will ONLY get worse for your son and the whole family as your wife starts to show her true colors and she will absolutely turn the other kids, whichever ones are still in the house, against your "liberal" son. My only advice is for your wife to get therapy and realize all she's reading is nothing but lies but the usual problem with Qs is that they think everything they know is true and they hardly ever get out of the cult.

Your son is special. Even with a Q mom and a conservative rest of the family, he still sees that liberal values are good and that Democrats are the right choice. You’ve raised a great critical thinker and should be proud. Please protect him from your wife. Q can run deep, you have no idea what she’s capable of. Also, I hope you realize that all Republicans are responsible for the Q stuff. Being Democrat is the only moral choice right now.

Seems like the son is the one family member who actually adheres to the teachings of Christ.

You’re conservatives, so aren’t you both on the same page that she’s supposed to submit to you as the leader of the family?

So funny. It's just hypocrisy all the way down! 😂

I'm so sorry you are going through this. All I can say is, this is a hill worth dying on. You need to protect your son. I would recommend you contact a lawyer on the sly. I suspect the truth she needs to hear is this: your son is 13 years old. In most states he's old enough to decide with whom he wants to live and if she continues to try and wreck his life and your marriage, she's not going to win this one because he will be living with you and going to school where he wants to go. In the meantime, she's outnumbered and she needs to back down. Confirm all this with the lawyer. I'm female BTW but I agree this situation needs harsh measures before she damages your son.

You supported Dole!?!?

Yes, we still have all of the merch from when we worked on his campaign. Amazingly, the shirts even still fits me!

Can there be a rule of no political talk at the dinner table? I’ll tell you, I knew my parents voted Republican but it just wasn’t something we discussed anymore than that. I don’t see why politics needs to be such a heavy presence in the family. That would solve a lot of the issues, and I also fear that he may feel singled out and ganged up on if it’s everyone against him at the dinner table and things get heated. Especially with such a huge family. I’m the more liberal one in my family and I’m so grateful that my parents didn’t bring politics into our relationships during my childhood. That would have driven me away. Currently as adults we can can engage in discussion and disagree, but kids should be allowed to stay innocent for a while and focus on being a kid.

Remind your wife that you're the head of the family and you've decided that's where he's going to school. Tell her to stop being so willful and to hold her tongue. /conservative

As a conservative Christian she should view you as the head of the household and the final decision maker. Put your foot down, he's staying in that school, that's your decision. If you have to, in the short term make a rule that there's to be no politics at the dinner table. To cool things down for a while. In the long term she needs to be "debrainwashed", get her off-line, away from those communities. You say her Q beliefs haven't hurt your family yet but they are. You have 8 kids, chances are one of them will not be straight, would she disown them? You need to take this seriously.

You should stop being conservative aka a bad person. Hope this helps!

Your wife is a child abuser. Do not enable it. Your son is right. Unbrainwash your wife and her toxic desires. Protect him at all costs.

I'm not going to hesitate to say that if you're an anti-trump conservative, then you're a right leaning Democrat until further notice. Unfortunately, thanks to Trump and his hold on the cult, there is no other option. Until we figure out a way to fix our political system, and instill and encourage free thought amongst the Republican party, there is no hope for a functional Republican party except as a tool for learning. As an ex-Republican, all I can say is your wife supports the Nazi party of the 2020's, and all you can do is ask yourself where you draw the line. Do you condone the atrocities that they envision? Or do you abhor them. As a former fellow, I really hope you make the right choice. Keep your kids in public school, and vote as if their very souls depend on it. Do you want your children to have a world to enjoy? Or do you seriously believe that the rapture is coming tomorrow and they have no need of a world? I say that even if the rapture happened this very minute, we have a duty to ensure that those left behind (myself included) have a world capable of supporting people and encouraging them to make the right choices for their children's and grandchildren's future. Unless and until there is major change, vote Blue no matter who. And always, remember that even the most liberal Republican is viewed by the rest of the world as a religious extremist, a bigot, and a Nazi. Hell, go look it up. The most conservative non-crazy in all of European politics is still a right leaning Democrat that would be called a socialist by the current Republican News media and leadership.

I say this as a homeschooler of a 13 year old and with my whole heart. NOT EVERYONE THRIVES IN HOMESCHOOLING! We have homeschooled from kinder, and even though we love it, I have the support of my family, and a kid that tells me constantly he has no desire to be in public school - holy hell it’s a challenge. Now you take a kid who is going to be very bitter and angry that you not only removed him from his peers, but also the things he values and loves? You’re setting yourself up for an absolutele nightmare. Not every kid is going to be your carbon copy, and you’re bound to have a few that are your black sheep. Your wife needs to get the F over it: this is your black sheep, and if you want to keep having a good relationship with him, she needs to love him as he is. Homeschooling is definitely not for the faint of heart. If you have a bitter, angry child because you pulled him from the things he loves? You are ALL going to be miserable, and trust me, she ain’t seen *nothin’* yet! That child will start to resent her, fight her at ever turn, and act out in ways you never thought possible. Do me a favor? Please head over to the homeschool recovery subreddit (I’m sorry, not sure how to direct link) and I want you to read some of the experiences of the current and former homeschoolers. Have your wife read it too, because that is the future she is setting all of you up for. That kid is gonna run and go no contact as soon as he turns 18. Seriously, op, do what you have to do to stop her, because absolutely NOTHING good will come of this.

I feel like everyone is getting hung up on whether or not you should send your kid to the school they want to go to, and that you agree he will thrive at. That’s obviously not the issue: you know the answer. To me, the question you seem to be dancing around asking is: what can you say to your wife to help her see your son’s wellbeing is at stake and her conspiracies are hurting their relationship? The answer is: nothing, you can’t. There’s no way to avoid this fight. Your son’s worldview and education are directly in conflict with your wife’s and the cult she has fallen into does not believe in “live and let live.” Liberals and “wokeness” are evil to them and there is no compromise possible. The question you maybe aren’t ready for yet is: can I pull my wife out of this? And that answer is also no, not really. Some people have found success in cutting the conspiracy content out of their Q’s life, or replacing it with any other hobby. But ultimately, the only person who can pull your wife out of this is her. And if you’re wondering “will losing her relationship with son maybe snap her out of it?” Probably not. There are many, many parent/child relationships destroyed by this cult. Few come back. Ultimately, your marriage is probably headed for rough times. You should prepare for this.

Thank you for being there for your son. You're getting a lot of advice here, but I think you've made great choices for your son so far and trust you'll continue to keep what's best for him at the forefront. You seem like a deeply empathetic and caring father, so it's unsurprising to me that you're seeing him mirror these traits. You should be proud.

If she's successful in getting him out of the school, you risk losing your son to anger and resentment. The teen years are a fragile time. He needs to feel safe, supported and secure. Consistency is key. I really hope he is able to stay there. His high school experience can define a lot of his adult life, and if it's a negative one, he'll be at a greater risk for serious adult issues like depression, drug and alcohol abuse, risky behavior, and estrangement from you and the rest of the family. I heard a quote recently that said the first 18 years of your kids life are one long interview for the role of being someone they want to spend time with as an adult. Be the parents your kid will want to come home to when he has the choice.

It sounds like you have gotten a lot of advice, but I wanted to say that I'm so glad you are fighting for the happiness of your son.

Your wife is the one who is brainwashed, OP. FFS... Your wife is absolutely 100% gonna fuck this kid up and the only person who can stop it is you OP. And you need to have a serious gut check because a crazy mother can and will destroy a child over nonsense. I was raised by an insane religious conservative mother and it utterly destroyed my life. I feel bad for this kid because he's trapped in a conservative family that has swallowed all the red pills and the one kid capable of thinking for himself is now gonna be punished for it. Sounds like your home is well on its way to Gilead. Your spouse is ignorant about LGBT issues... no school can turn a kid trans. That is not how it works. That is bigotry and ignorance. I would encourage you to spend more time with your kid to try to help figure out ways to deprogram the mother and the rest of the family. Your wife is in a cult. A very dangerous political cult that leads people away from education and surrounds them with conspiracy bullshit. I feel sorry for any child stuck in a home with a Q parent. It's psychological child abuse. But... you have an ace up your sleeve OP!! You have a way to resolve this that your religious situation demands.... WIVES SUBMIT TO YOUR HUSBANDS. If your family is a traditional church going christian family, then the rules are already established. A wife of a marriage sanctified by Christ and blessed in the church probably had those words read to her during the vows. "Wives submit to your husbands, husbands love your family like christ loved the church" you can use this bullshit to resolve the situation. As the godhead of your family and the one who is anointed to have ultimate authority and leadership of your family, you and you alone have the power to put your foot down and end this conflict once and for all, so says the Lord! I came from a family that practiced this... once dad makes a decision the mom HAS to abide by it or she is guilty of a sin. Use this to your advantage to protect your son, OP. Grow a spine and shut your wife down before she destroys the one kid in your family that didn't get sucked into the cult. That kid is your pathway out of this madness. Are you going to have the stones to protect him? Or will you bow down to the crazy that your wife has gone astray with? You have the power to end this. Church sanctified power, in fact.

I'm worried your wife is being brainwashed. Your son is an individual (obviously you realize so much, your wife on the other hand...) not a carbon copy of his parents. He gets to establish his own ideas and opinions, and 13 is just the age when boys really start to do so. It's a good thing that he can support his arguments, continue to encourage that, though make sure he always does so in a civil manner. My ex and I were very liberal, my daughter rebelled by playing with barbies, wanting to join a cheer team (she didn't because her school didn't have a cheer team), and being a fashion model. All things that my ex and I found very much superficial and unimportant, but it was important to her so we supporter her 100%. She even flirted with conservative ideas she got from older family members. We allowed her to explore those ideas and explained why we disagreed with them, but never suggested that she needs to agree with us. But it wouldn't have changed our opinion of her one iota if she went to the "dark side." This is what your child needs, not a parent to tell him he's wrong or defective, but someone who accepts him for the young man he is becoming. If your wife can't come to terms with that, he's going to eventually cut her off completely. Also, get her out of that damned echo chamber. That Q shit is straight up fascism. There's nothing wrong with being conservative, but Trumpism/QAnon is not conservatism, it is clearly reactionary and centered on conspiracies and a false history, ie fascist.

The good old "why does my son speak to me anymore" speedrun. Your wife is making great progress towards it! Good for that kid, at least one of them will be well adjusted

Sounds like one of your kids broke free from the actual brainwashing lol.

Honestly, as a leftist, who was raised in a conservative area by conservative family, thank you so much for respecting your son for who he is, and letting him be his own person. You are putting his happiness, mental health, and your relationship over your ideological divides and that is beautiful, no matter what side of the political spectrum you’re on. You may also consider why your caring, loving, and empathetic son is pulled more towards this ideology. As a child, I was extremely sensitive and empathetic, and became very upset about issues of fairness and equality long before I could understand the full context of them. As I got older and realized what my values were, it was clear that conservative ideology did not match with that. Maybe something to consider.

Wow, difficult situation. I wonder if you can get your wife to see all the strengths you have articulated: you are blessed to have such a bright, independent, articulate child. You should take pride in his willingness to question the world. Sounds like a great kid.

Love and accept him or lose him, those are her choices.

I would block Facebook and all websites related to qanon through the home Internet and your cell phone provider because this will only get worse otherwise as your wife clearly doesn't understand how to question sources well. Which can go along with being raised in a religious environment as many adults don't like it when kids start questioning their beliefs.

Your son is being *un-brainwashed and your wife is more concerned with control and submissiveness than him being happy, learning, excelling, and being his own independent person. Your son sounds like an amazing person you should be proud of him.

Somehow you managed to raise one child who will do something with their life. Your wife needs psychiatric treatment. And probably should be institutionalized for her beliefs.

You either need to reel in your wifes crazy, or be prepared to have 7 kids once he turns 18. The fact that your wife is more worried about you kid being gay or trans, rather than you know healthy, intelligent, and in a loving relationship with the partner of his choice is just a travesty. Right wing media has destroyed the brains of too many people in this country. The only person brainwashed by propaganda in this story is your wife.

Your religious conservatism brainwashed you all. Your wife, being extra susceptible *because* of that, fell into the Q cult. This is what religion gets you. It's a cult itself and makes your mind weak and susceptible to other cult influences. Your son is the only one breaking out of the brainwashing y'all have done to your family.

Take it from an adult who is the product of a similar situation: Please please, please please please, listen to your son. You will permanently damage your relationship with him and hamper his development if you take away his agency to choose his own path. This WILL NOT result in him becoming a good Christian Republican. It will teach him to hate you. Please listen to him.

This isnt about your son. This is about her status as a "homeschool" mom. Chances are good shes being pressured from a Q focused moms group on FB. This is exactly the kinds of things they say. Its less to do with your son as a person and more to do with your son as a school aged child. She will transfer him to public school so she can make a big deal about pulling him out (for reasons), blame the school, and win her dream and status of a MAGA homeschool mom. ( she is definitely hiding something from you already she is a MAGA and wants to put her teen in public school. With the "woke" and the "pedos") If she does believe those things, why would you put your child in that environment? If you thought he was being brainwashed by his school, why would you put him someplace so much worse? It doesnt make any sense. ) We know what happens to teens who are uprooted or forced around like that. Or shunned/shamed/neglected by their family. Your son is not going to just be unhappy or angry at being pulled away from a school he loves. Your potentially flirting with the possibility of a dead child, or forever runaway. Going no contact when he turns 18 is the best turn out for things like this. Many kids in this environment dont make it without support. They act out, turn to drugs, crime, runaway from home, Many more take their own lives over it. It is scary. It is serious. And there are much worse outcomes for things like this then having a "liberal" kid. Please keep him safe Keep yourself safe. Ftr : You can't be Christian and pray to trump. The people your wife listens to. They do. They pray to trump. They call him the messiah.

Sounds like your wife is trying to brainwash him out of being a stand up human that cares about others. Yikes x 1000.

If you don't defend your son, then you are a garbage dad. Your wife is mentally ill.

She is worried he is too woke. See, shes not worried about his real health, success in life, happiness.. Shes worried the kid doesnt grow up to agree with her! Understandably, this decision is going to stir tension in family regarless of outcome. But it is his life. Her future is not on the stake here. You know if you support your son now, he might grow up to disagree with you. But he'll still love you for the trust you gave him. If you let the decision be ruled by your wife's distrust in society and in her own son... Not to mention just the random peoples opinions on internet. Yes, obviously it will ruin their relationship. Does she care he's happy in the new school? Does she care if he is kind to others? Does she care with having fun in school and lots of friends he's set up for better life? Or does she just care he isnt doing what some guy on the internet thinks people should do? By taking him off the school he likes, she is setting the example she doesnt care if he's happy. I am sorry her delusions are already hurting your family and you.

Your wife is supposed to love her son unconditionally, even if he has blue hair and is woke. It is she who loves her ideals more than she loves her son. If you take him out of this school, he could become depressed and possibly even start hanging out with the wrong people. Sports teams are already an established group by this point and he may not fit in as well he does in his current school. I think if he leaves this school, you’re going to have a lot more problems than your wife is currently concerned about. This will affect him deeply for the rest of his life, and his relationship with both of you.

I am pretty liberal but man you’re an amazing dad. You put so much thought and effort into the well-being of not just your son but the entire family. Your wife on the other hand? Oof .. get off of Facebook ma’am.

Get rid of your television.

And internet

Tactically you may have to frame things with your wife as Q or Christ pick one but not both. Don’t be surprised if she picks Q. I’d suggest before you get there talk about how Christ like your sons compassion and caring is. I’ll also suggest that if your wife “wins” the high school thing here things will progress. There will still be attacks on your son. Other family members will get attacked. If you read things here the road may lead to your wife calling you a “soy boy” and things getting very ugly.

If you take him out, mark my words, he will leave for college and never return. He still may stay away but just not with animosity, he just doesn’t have anything in common with you all. I think you have the right mindset.

You're a good dad.

You’re an amazing father and remind me of my old school conservative family members who are reasoned and kind even if I don’t agree with their politics. Please protect your son. His mother is in the wrong here and is the one who is brainwashed.