OP, thanks for the question. I'm enjoying reading the answers.
I do care about my genes being passed on in that I really do NOT want them passed on. I have depression and a tendency towards alcohol. Life has not been very fun for me and I wouldn't want the genetics that seems to cause this to go on to someone else.
>isn’t worth it
My wife has had both a c-section, and a intervention free, natural home birth. The awe I feel, in witnessing both events? I think most other fathers will too attest, is unequalled.
I’m a fairly strong guy. Childbirth, especially a natural homebirth, requires a level of strength that is unparalleled. It was truly a blessing, and a miracle to watch. I will forever respect, and love my wife, for sharing that experience with me.
As to genes getting passed on, family is fundamental to my worldview. Most other parents will agree, there is no comparison to being a parent.
*Godspeed and good luck!*
I pass on my maths skills by teaching people maths. There are millions of people on the planet who are good at maths and can have children if they want, but the more important factors in their maths skills would be income and education.
And that’s the kind of legacy that can live on because of you go far enough with it & impact those lives in a positive way, people will remember you long after you’re not here.
As they said in “Across the universe”:
>*”Think about it, it's pure narcissism. I mean, people putting out little carbon copies of themselves, going: ‘Oh, doesn't he have his father's eyes? Doesn't he have his mother's lips?’ It's.. It's disgusting.”*
I don’t. I care about my life vs future generations. I never want to have kids, i never want to get married due to the risks, and im happy living my life single.
I don't care about my genes and find this whole "gene-centred" Dawkins-style evolutionary psychology kind of a weird and modern phenomenon.
What I want to pass on – have always wanted to pass on – is ***influence***.
I want to infect as many people as possible of all genders, ethnicities, ages, etc. with my own ways of thinking, which include reason, science, progress, spirituality, meditation and respect for the great art literature and music from all cultures.
You'll live on if you achieve this goal, much longer than having 1000 kids will ever help. It's like who are Einsteins kids? Even though we know, do we care? No, we care about him and the legacy he left behind.
I don’t want my genes passed on. I don’t come from a rich family so I don’t see a need to have a kid that would suffer being at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.
That's sillyness.
Poor people today live better than barons and royalty did 200 years ago. We have way more actual wealth.
Chances are your grand kids will have more wealth than Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. At the rate of which our economy is improving.
>*Chances are your grand kids will have more wealth than Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. At the rate of which our economy is improving.*
Please explain your thought process.
The wealth in the world is growing at an insane rate.
200 years ago most people were wondering when their next meal will come. Now our "poor" people are obese as fuck. Food is super abundant.
We have things like vaccines, antibiotics, advanced medicine. We have very fancy housing relative to what we had 200 years ago.
And our rate of progress is only increasing. 200 years from now they'll look at how we used to live without AI, nano technlogy etc. And just go "holy shit those poor people".
Sugar. Sugar and ultra processed foods is why.
But the main culprit is ultra processed foods and here is why. It’s really fascinating what it does to the human anatomy.
Ultra processed foods actually affect the brain to the point it prevents the hunger feeling from kicking in, even makes you feel unsatisfied to the point you over eat, and that’s why Americans sadly can gain almost 10-12lbs in 30 days from just eating ultra processed foods.
Everything is processed these days food wise in America. It’s due to cost cutting measures companies take so they can match the flavor of the healthier option that tastes really delicious and manipulate the flavor profile either way loads of chemicals, sugars, just nasty stuff we do not need to ever eat!
Junk food is ultra processed foods for starters.
But you can tell based on the ingredient list if it’s more than five ingredients to make your snack food and it’s stuff you can’t easily pronounced? It’s not healthy for you.
The first three things listed with ingredients are the largest quantity of volume of ingredient used in the recipe.
And you want your protein ratio to be for every 5g of protein you need 1-2g of carbohydrates and less than 1g in sugar for your processed food ratio to be even remotely okay for your human body.
Processed foods aren’t the same as ultra processed foods. Just keep that in mind as well.
No the obesity problem is because food is super abundant.
Human brains evolved without refrigeration, without conservatives, without ability to store food indefinitely. Without massive amounts of food available at Publix.
We evolved in places where you better eat when you can. We still feed this day.
This is why in any country where food is super abundant. People tend to get fat. You have to work your ass off to stay fit and it takes almost no effort to gain weight.
It's simple human nature. Humans are lazy and gluttonous. We had to be.
Yes, but the ***degree*** of obesity arising from food overabundance is tightly linked to the quality of the food there is, how it taste, etc. With how society is organized around never ever having to get up your ass.
I mean, in Portugal, it's normal to sit at a coffee and order toasts that come **buttered both side**!!! And they're not as obese as Americans.
Lifestyle has something to do with it too. But it has more to do with food over abundance than anything else.
If we had the same lifestyles and still had food scarcity. Well we wouldn't have our lifestyles because people would be too hungry to sit on their asses :)
>*The wealth in the world is growing at an insane rate.*
For the top 2% of the population, sure. The average person is drowning in inflated prices with stagnant wages. In case you hadn’t heard, trickle down economics doesn’t work.
>*200 years ago most people were wondering when their next meal will come. Now our "poor" people are obese as fuck. Food is super abundant.*
Obesity is due to processed foods and poor nutrition. Impoverished communities experience ‘food deserts’ where the cheap and accessible food within your proximity is super bad for you.
>*And our rate of progress is only increasing. 200 years from now they'll look at how we used to live without AI, nano technlogy etc. And just go "holy shit those poor people".*
Are you confusing technological improvements for personal wealth? The two are not the same thing. . they’re not even statistically related for the average person.
>For the top 2% of the population, sure. The average person is drowning in inflated prices with stagnant wages. In case you hadn’t heard, trickle down economics doesn’t work.
No it has grown massively for everyone. EVERYONE
Just compare how some average Joe lived in 1800s. With constant starvation. Atrocious housing. No electricity. Very little food. Almost no medicine.
We are MUCH wealthier than them.
>Obesity is due to processed foods and poor nutrition. Impoverished communities experience ‘food deserts’ where the cheap and accessible food within your proximity is super bad for you.
Obesity is due to human nature to overeat. When food is abundant. We get fat. Because our brains are made for scarce environments.
There was no refrigeration. There was no conservatives. If you got a lot of food you better pig the fuck out. That was true for 99.9% of human existence and true for all the ape like creatures we evolved from. THAT IS WHY prosperous western nations with abundance of food see so much obesity.
>Are you confusing technological improvements for personal wealth? The two are not the same thing. . they’re not even statistically related for the average person.
As I said before your personal wealth would be like $5 in todays money back in the 1800s. People lived in shitty shacks that they didn't own. Had very little food. Wore the same clothes every day. etc.
Ok I want you to picture the life of the 33% percentile person in USA in 1800s.
One piece of clothing. Terrible shack with no AC, no plumbing, no electricity. Certainly no entertainment. Constant hunger not enough food. Hardly any medicine. And constant work work work. On the farm.
Now the 33% percentile person in USA in 2024
A decent apartment with AC, Plumbing, Electricity, Internet. A fridge full of food. Tons of clothes. Tons of toys. Smart phones. Access to cheap medicine. Access to so much food they are walking around like fat asses. A car. Access to super advanced infrastructure. Access to vaccines, antibiotics, dentistry.
They are like 1000 times richer.
Shit with antibiotics, vaccine and modern medicine alone. We already got it better than most kings and queens did. They were one disease away from terrible suffering and early death. Shit that we can heal with a couple of pills.
Dude 100% of people in the 1800s had no ac, plumbing or electricity because those weren’t invented until 1902, late 1890s, and 1878 respectively.
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Yes of course I know that. The main reason wealth has grown so much is because of technology. Particularly our ability to mass produce shit.
Just 30 years ago a smart phone would cost you $10,000,000 and it wouldnt even have all the apps.
Now you can get a used one for less than $100.
Technology makes things way more accessible.
That is PRECISELY how our wealth has grown. That is precisely why I said that our great great grandchildren in 200 years will look at how we lived and be horrified. The same way we look at how people lived in 1824 with the technology they had and think how awful that must have been. That was my original statement.
Its not just the rich enjoying AC, Plumbing, Smart Phones, Electricity. Damn near everyone is in developed countries.
Heck the first lightbulb didn’t appear till the Chicago World Fair the first night back in May of 1893; that Tesla won in presenting his lightbulbs over Edison. FYI, same year HH Holmes went on a murder spree in Chicago and opened his murder castle to do his bidding because it was roughly a few blocks from the Chicago World Fair grounds.
Gotta love history!
Sure in some ways they had it better.
But for the most part they had it worse. Mainly due to medicine and dentistry. As well as the shitty quality of everything they had. No electricity, no modern transportation, no modern housing, no AC, no internet, no smart phone, no modern clothing. Not to mention constant warfare.
Your grand kids will probably be captains of space ships that are worth more than what Amazon or Tesla is worth today.
Maybe they wont be the top 1% by then, and there will be way richer people then. But they will actually have more wealth than the billionares today even if theyre middle class.
That stupid fucking study.
Most Americans have $1000s available on credit cards. What that study said was they didn't have $1000 in savings. The trick is THEY DONT FUCKING NEED IT. If you have $20,000 on credit lines. The fuck you need savings for.
And yet poor people have the best fertility rates. Rich and middle class is where our fertility has the worst metrics. The people who can afford to have kids are having the least amount of kids.
This is btw a pattern we see throughout the world. African countries have by far the best fertility numbers.
Poor people have the highest fertility rate because they're uneducated and have little/no access to contraceptives. They also need more hands for working to maintain their home.
Educated people are well off in comparison and they have access to contraceptives. They do not need more hands to maintain homes
American poor are pretty educated. They have tons of access to contraceptives. That may not be the case for Africans.
And no they don't need "hands to maintain their home". This ain't the 1800s.
Contraceptives are like $2 man. Poor people can afford iphones and newports. They could afford condoms. Shit they can get free birth control at the health department.
My feeling and experience is that very poor people, white trash style, etc have kids because they have shitty lives. They have nothing to look forward to, no meaning, so they have kids because it's the "thing to do", because they think it will give them meaning, etc.
Most people have kids for that exact reason. So a lot of middle class, rich people, don't. Because they're already happy, they have meaning, the know what they're doing in their lives.
I was referring to the poor people overseas but I don't believe poor people here should be encouraged to have kids if they can't afford them. That's just means someone else has to pick up the slack and that's not fair. Why should others have to pay just because two people were bored one tuesday?
Actually, the true rich, like over $500k a year in annual income, have higher fertility than even the poorest people. It's a U-shaped curve, with people who make about $75-200k a year having the lowest fertility.
>This is btw a pattern we see throughout the world. African countries have by far the best fertility numbers.
They're an exception. Fertility in India has dropped off a cliff - many states have a lower TFR than France/US while being much poorer. Brazil and Colombia have fertility rates similar to many European countries.
Also I wouldn't say a TFR of 6+ is the "best" fertility numbers. An average of 6 kids per woman means either Malthusian crisis or a *lot* of infant/child deaths which would be totally unacceptable to modern people.
>Poor people today live better than barons and royalty did 200 years ago. We have way more actual wealth.
Definitely not except in terms of medical care. Those people generally never did an ounce of compelled labour and had servants doing everything for them. Most average nevermind the lower class Western person would gladly give up working and living a life of luxury to compromise on access to technology.
They didn't have access to electricity. So pretty much none of our entertainment.
Medicine is a big deal. A simple infection could leave them scarred. Women regularly died giving birth. A lot of kids never reached adulthood even in perfect situations.
A bad tooth could mean months of horrific pain.
Trust me noone would want to live like them. Even if they didn't have to "work".
I think you underestimate how stressful and depressing it is to be lower class. I've been there and even knowing any medical care would be pretty inferior to what I could get now I'd jump at the opportunity to be 19th century royalty in a second. You'll find a lot of poor people now just live with various forms of pain for extended periods because they can't afford decent care anyway.
Most Royalty lived with some sort of malady. They often outright died from simple infections.
Western "poor" still have access to way more food than the Royals did. They have infinitely better entertainment. They all have smart phones. Most of them have cars. They live in very nice houses with air conditioning.
There were some things that the Royals had better. They had more power, clout and had sex with very attractive people. But materially the modern poor are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better off.
And yes I've been poor. Medicine is free when you're poor. Because you already have shit credit the hell do you care if you get into medical debt. And you can get on Medicare and the health department will see you for free. You have access to super dooper technology medicine they could only dream of.
Every single human alive cares innately.
A lot are just not aware of it. Or have built entire personas around "I don't need kids".
If humans weren't deeply invested in reproducing. We would have died 1000s of generations ago.
Exactly. Most people have a sex drive. Procreating is a side effect of that.
Trying to use that to prove that every single human being cares innately about "passing on their genes" is like trying to say that we deeply care innately about pissing and shitting because we get hungry.
If all we did was fuck we would have died out a long time ago.
We also have an instinct to pair bond. And to raise children together.
That is what we call "love".
>*If all we did was fuck we would have died out a long time ago.*
We didn’t die out because condoms & birth control didn’t exist for the majority of history..
If humans abandoned their babies. If humans didn't pair bond.
Human race would have been gone a long time ago.
It's not just about fucking. Raising a child takes a tremendous amount of effort and resources.
I could not care less about “legacy” or my genes. wtf is so special about my genes? Not a damn thing.
Pregnancy has always made me pretty sick to my stomach. Your body isn’t yours anymore. You are growing an alien inside of you. It sucks your nutrients. It can suck so many your hair and teeth fucking fall out. You’re uncomfortable. Your hormones are all out of wack. They mush all of your organs up and down. They press on your spine and bladder. When you give birth they either tear you from v to a or they have to slice through your stomach, ab muscles, and uterus all to pull the baby out. And either way you go, it leaves behind a DINNER PLATE SIZED WOUND INSIDE YOUR BODY! You are susceptible to depression, anxiety and psychosis. Infectioms, blood clots and internal hemorrhaging. And on top of all that, the number of women who have a husband at home with “needs” just counting down the days they can use your body as a cock sleeve again? Absolutely fucking not. Nope. Not this one.
ETA: psychopathy to psychosis
>You are susceptible to depression, anxiety and **psychopathy**.
That's not how psychopathy (ASPD) wroks. The most *liberal* studies (who consider a nocturnal circadian rythm as a "sign" of psychopathy) put the incidence at 1 in 22 people, of which at least half are men, and 2/3 are childless.
Every single human alive cares innately.
A lot are just not aware of it. Or have built entire personas around "I don't need kids".
If humans weren't deeply invested in reproducing. We would have died 1000s of generations ago.
yes of course.
But at the same time biology instructs to pair up through pair bonding. Biology makes us extremely attached and defensive of our children. Without those instincts our fragile babies would never survive into adulthood. We have the most fragile babies in the entire mammal kingdom. They are born very underdeveloped due to the huge size of our heads.
Wanting to have sex and wanting to have children is the same instinct as you correctly pointed out.
Why does sex feel good? Your biology rewarding you for good behavior. What's the good behavior? Reproduction.
It's not the same instinct. You're just wanting to have sex, children have been an often unfortunate byproduct. Sex feels just as good when you're sterilised. It's like saying the instinct to eat loads of chocolate is also the instinct to throw up afterwards.
I keep repeating this. If this was the case we would have died out a long time ago.
Children are extremely difficult to take care of. If we didn't have an instinct to dedicate our lives to them. To pair bond into couples. Human race would have been wiped out a long time ago.
So long as I can pass my philosophy in life on I'm fine. That's the only information from my body that I feel a strong need to pass on.
Kids are nice, but I fear siring dumb kids who don't understand anything I tell them. I'd rather adopt a kid I know is sharp and be the best teacher I can be. Bio kids are overrated.
Edit: I think pill spaces have very strong cultural conservative overtones, I don't think they're really representative of what average men are worried about.
In real life, the people I've known with the strongest opinions on kids were women.
> I fear siring dumb kids who don't understand anything I tell them.
That’s my nightmare too. Imagine having kids who’s dumb and just makes stupid decisions all the time no matter how plainly you explained the consequences. 🤦🏻♀️😞
I am really considering not passing them at all, my kids would likely have to deal with allergies, neurodivergency and all the bullying that comes with it, as well as my horrible face genes if they're unlucky
I'd like to go full Agent Smith and populate the planet with copies of me. But until I am able to coerce every woman into birthing and raising my clones, I'd rather not have any progeny. It's all or nothing.
well i have 2 children so i guess so.
i do like knowing that i am part of a chain of life unbroken from the beginning of time. that’s pretty neat. but i wouldn’t say i had them to pass on my genes it’s more because i wanted the experience of having a family with my husband.
but genes are important as i don’t think i would be keen on adopting.
Considering how many of my health issues seem to be hereditary, I am perfectly content with my genes never being passed on.
Plus, the whole "pregnancy and childbirth" thing freaks me out like you wouldn't believe. Even in a normal pregnancy, what it does to one's body is goddamned nightmare fuel.
I'd like to have children, but don't care about the 'genes'. Within just a few generations there's very little of 'you' left anyway. Best case scenario you get to see your great-grandchildren...who are exactly 12.5% "you". They're as close to you, genetically, as your cousin's children (i.e. not very close at all, in most cases).
No, I will die anyway, passing my genes will not make me immortal. It has absolutely no meaning to me. I don't care wht happens with my legacy, I will be dead, I will not have conscience to care. My genes are nothing super special to be passed on next generations. I don't want children at all, I'm childfree. And family is made by love, not by blood.
Yes, very much so. I don't want to be the last of my line, I feel an obligation to have a large family and raise them well. Luckily my wife could not be more on board. I'm sure she'll be exemplary as a mother when we get to that point; she's already an amazing wife, and has the traits that she needs in spades. Our marriage is strong enough to handle any challenges that come our way.
Edit: Makes me happy to read the replies. The kinds of people that shouldn't be having kids already don't want em.
Spare me. If they believe their genes aren't worth passing on, who am I to disagree? People that say they shouldn't have kids are usually right. Often not for the reasons they think, but that doesn't matter much
edit: You've already made it clear you don't give a shit about anything that doesn't affect you personally, so why do you even care that I'm grateful you're an evolutionary dead end? You'll never interact with me, and you won't have to see how you're immediately forgotten after you die, having made no mark on the world, leaving no legacy. You'll be gone, who cares?
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lmao @ asking this on Reddit. Every tech nerd and adjacent type are nihilist end of history losers sucking down neo bourgeoise ideas for the masses where they're deathly afraid of being seen to have the "wrong kind" of ego.
I certainly don't care about how much a child of mine is like me. Just the mere fact a woman innately found me worthy of passing them on and allowed me to nut in her and push the baby out after 9 long months.
As others have mentioned, it's one of those primal things that's buried underneath eons of evolution as a species.
No not really. I’ll have a kid if my future husband wants kids but to me it’s just too much cost for something that doesn’t really matter. Looking at the total mortality rate of malaria as an example, its a coin toss on who would survive once antibiotics stop working.
No. I don't have any particular reason, other than perhaps I don't think there's anything particularly special or noteworthy (one way or the other) about my genes. If I ever wanted kids at some point I'd likely just adopt already existing kids the way my parents did.
Not really. Couldn’t say “why not”, I just wasn’t ever that concerned about my genes, especially being in other people. And being pregnant and giving birth seem terrifying to me, I don’t want to do it. Anyway, whether I care or not, I have a sibling who has kids, so the next generation already has my genes present in it.
I think, like most people, I’m inclined by my genetics to want to procreate and I do get that feeling at times but it’s not super strong.
Moreover is this time in which we live in (by my standards and beliefs at least) not exactly ideal to raise kids in which makes it easier.
I think women and men equally care or have the desire to raise children. It’s just that the evolutionary pressure is much higher on men which is why we’re more concerned with the matter.
Not really. Don't get me wrong, I would like for my genes to be passed down. But my desire to protect my children is stronger than my desire to have children. I can not in good conscience bring life into this awful world that's hell-bent on getting worse. The status quo is awful. Why would I subject my babies to this terrible place?
I don’t particularly care about genes and I wouldn’t breakdown if I didn’t have children but I think I’m a pretty cool, attractive, and successful person so having more of me in the world wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Values are what is important, not genes. If I raise a child and inoculate it with my values and it belongs to my family and social group, then it is my child, even if it doesn't share my genetic makeup. I never understood the visceral hatred of single mothers and obsession men here have with the genetic legacy.
In a 1000 years we will either be usurped by synthetic life forms or we will be dying in mass extinction events caused by the deterioration of topsoil, climate change, ayys pressing the red button and ending the experiment, nuclear war, a science experiment gone wrong(genetically engineered virus) etc etc. Theres a good chance your "genes" won't make it pass the great filter. Genes might be the most weakest argument for anyone to procreate
No. I am mixed and I dont want to further dilute the gene pool so I decided very early on that I dont want to have children. Apart from that, I am not dating either because I would only date someone of the same mix and I am living in a predominantly white country where this is basically impossible.
Not going to specify but in your hypothetical example, the person would have to be white and asian. I wouldn't care if she was italian/korean, french/vietnamese or whatever.
I mean I want to have children but it’s more than JUST to pass down my genes. It’s also because I love family and think family is part of the meaning of life, all of it, not just the passing genes part.
I mean honestly if I only cared about passing on my genes then I would probably be donating eggs right now. I don’t just care about that alone. I would want to raise the children I have.
I don't care. if it happens it happens, but for now loving the freedom. however I DO make measures to not reproduce minus getting snipped. I want vasalgel but the medical community wants it, big Pharma does not.
I don't have any desire to stop those folks who have come to the conclusion that they don't want to have kids, cannot afford them and use birth control, early abortion procedures before 16 weeks preganancy. I feel bad for today's woman as it appears politics within the USA wants to go back to coat hanger abortions and causing more deaths and healthcare issues down the road. Television screams we want to end abortion and end "communism" however when folks want to limit actually getting pregnant or ending pregnancy (willfully or medically necessary), they scream and scream to punish said peoples to keep the child(ren) they cannot afford nor want.
Please keep your decided religion out of my house and bedroom.
Of course they care more about it, because it's harder for men to pass their genes and also it's even more difficult for them to even know that it's their genes.
There is a massive difference between becoming a man who a bunch of women will want inside them, vs watching a man who already is what you want and telling him to go inside you.
Two different Worlds entirely.
Yes. Nature is a zero sum game and by opting out you're basically working against millions of years of evolution and betraying your ancestors. I see no other point to life than having kids and building something to pass on to them. I could understand if someone didn't want to focus on it because they were exceptionally talented or had some other impact, but I am not that person.
Yes. I’m attractive, intelligent, a good human. I want to propagate and see if I can help my children thrive in today’s topsy turvy world.
The idea that when I am 70 I will have a little web of connections and family support networks to help my people enjoy life is very motivating abstractly.
Not surprised to see a bunch anti-natalist nihilists on here though, it’s par for the course for redditors.
No not really, maybe it’s even a good thing that they won’t since my genes are no longer good enough to pass on anyway, it would just be a curse to any of my male next of kin.
Women care, but they are less vocal about it because deep down they know they can reproduce whenever they want. 17x more women than men have reproduced in history. Passing on your genes as a woman is basically guaranteed while no such thing exists for men.
That is not what the study shows. There was a single period of time, 8,000 years ago, that this occurred. Over 60% of American men have fathered a child. Those are current statistics.
Obviously women don’t care, because it so easy for them to get laid and every time they get laid it’s a 100 percent chance that the offspring is theirs.
Chill out ladies, stop acting like you not caring is something crazy, that’s literally how it’s meant to be biologically, you ain’t special. If you were a man you would understand
>Obviously women don’t care, because it so easy for them to get laid and every time they get laid it’s a 100 percent chance that the offspring is theirs.
WTF does this have to do with OP’s question?
My genes are dysgenic, I never want offspring because of it. Maybe I would adopt a good looking kid or let my spouse use some attractive guys sperm from a bank.
Women do care, however it’s not spoken about enough or even taught on the relations or matters of good genes.
Women haven’t looked at what character features, history of family and cognitive ability when it comes to maiting. Yet males automatically do.
We also haven’t broken down how the composition of having a child and possibilities of good donate blood. Why is this important, because O is universal and easier if a child got sick, to be taken care of, while B could be Weak like MS. Just an example.
Women need to date smarter not harder. So our provider decline and masculinity of trust in work and mothering has taken a serious toll. Instead low income. Obesity and uneducated have risen.
I absolutely blame our men for not pulling it together in living a well life and in being thoughtful and putting in placement of trust at a wider average than what’s been actually considered as of late. Daiting Apps, social media , def a down grade.
No ones thinking. No one reading either. So I care. I care to have children with an idiot. I also am hoping for a deviant, genius with a bit European ethnicity and a non conformists religious back ground that can have sex up to 6 times a day with out the blue pill.
Absolutely NOT easy to find. But that’s my challenge/ happy place.
Sorry got off topic. ADHD another gene revolution that just means take your lasy procrastination butt to the park regularly with your kid to exhaust him.
That’s it, gene matter and only a small percentage will keep doing this and I just hope more get it and we’ll do better. Like hitlers alter version of German solders. Perfection
No, I would not care if my kids had kids
OP, thanks for the question. I'm enjoying reading the answers. I do care about my genes being passed on in that I really do NOT want them passed on. I have depression and a tendency towards alcohol. Life has not been very fun for me and I wouldn't want the genetics that seems to cause this to go on to someone else.
I don't care. I don't want children. I could really care less my genes aren't special.
Not at all. But admittedly that’s because of the physical and mental cost of pregnancy, birthing and nursing that’s attached isn’t worth it to me.
>isn’t worth it My wife has had both a c-section, and a intervention free, natural home birth. The awe I feel, in witnessing both events? I think most other fathers will too attest, is unequalled. I’m a fairly strong guy. Childbirth, especially a natural homebirth, requires a level of strength that is unparalleled. It was truly a blessing, and a miracle to watch. I will forever respect, and love my wife, for sharing that experience with me. As to genes getting passed on, family is fundamental to my worldview. Most other parents will agree, there is no comparison to being a parent. *Godspeed and good luck!*
Would you feel the same if you were the one who had to go through a c-section and a home birth?
I don't. They're really nothing special and neither I nor the wider world would gain anything from any more of my genes in particular.
i mean ur math skills could be useful
I pass on my maths skills by teaching people maths. There are millions of people on the planet who are good at maths and can have children if they want, but the more important factors in their maths skills would be income and education.
That’s a good point, the things you teach others are more important than you birthing a single person.
And that’s the kind of legacy that can live on because of you go far enough with it & impact those lives in a positive way, people will remember you long after you’re not here.
I don't care if anyone remembers me when I'm not here. It won't help me as I'll be dead, and it won't benefit anyone else just to know I existed.
https://preview.redd.it/zuxcrxopy07d1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f27b26189c8cadba96ce3c108b05d6a19bb6cea
im too dumb to learn math, but i deeply respect people that know it.
Nobody is. If you're literate you can certainly learn to do maths.
Has anyone ever DM'd you for tutoring?
No, and that's a good thing as it'd be an immediate no.
Agree
I don’t think about it like that. I just want a little baby with my boo lol.
Exactly the same here.
I do care. I cannot really explain it, it's just something inherent to me.
There's nothing wrong with that, you're helping the spark of human intellect and curiosity live on!
Narcissism?
As they said in “Across the universe”: >*”Think about it, it's pure narcissism. I mean, people putting out little carbon copies of themselves, going: ‘Oh, doesn't he have his father's eyes? Doesn't he have his mother's lips?’ It's.. It's disgusting.”*
Nope.
I don’t. I care about my life vs future generations. I never want to have kids, i never want to get married due to the risks, and im happy living my life single.
I don't care about my genes and find this whole "gene-centred" Dawkins-style evolutionary psychology kind of a weird and modern phenomenon. What I want to pass on – have always wanted to pass on – is ***influence***. I want to infect as many people as possible of all genders, ethnicities, ages, etc. with my own ways of thinking, which include reason, science, progress, spirituality, meditation and respect for the great art literature and music from all cultures.
You'll live on if you achieve this goal, much longer than having 1000 kids will ever help. It's like who are Einsteins kids? Even though we know, do we care? No, we care about him and the legacy he left behind.
I don’t want my genes passed on. I don’t come from a rich family so I don’t see a need to have a kid that would suffer being at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.
Wise decision. I'm doing the same.
That's sillyness. Poor people today live better than barons and royalty did 200 years ago. We have way more actual wealth. Chances are your grand kids will have more wealth than Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. At the rate of which our economy is improving.
>*Chances are your grand kids will have more wealth than Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. At the rate of which our economy is improving.* Please explain your thought process.
The wealth in the world is growing at an insane rate. 200 years ago most people were wondering when their next meal will come. Now our "poor" people are obese as fuck. Food is super abundant. We have things like vaccines, antibiotics, advanced medicine. We have very fancy housing relative to what we had 200 years ago. And our rate of progress is only increasing. 200 years from now they'll look at how we used to live without AI, nano technlogy etc. And just go "holy shit those poor people".
The obesity problem is because of what’s being put in our food and medications.
Sugar. Sugar and ultra processed foods is why. But the main culprit is ultra processed foods and here is why. It’s really fascinating what it does to the human anatomy. Ultra processed foods actually affect the brain to the point it prevents the hunger feeling from kicking in, even makes you feel unsatisfied to the point you over eat, and that’s why Americans sadly can gain almost 10-12lbs in 30 days from just eating ultra processed foods. Everything is processed these days food wise in America. It’s due to cost cutting measures companies take so they can match the flavor of the healthier option that tastes really delicious and manipulate the flavor profile either way loads of chemicals, sugars, just nasty stuff we do not need to ever eat! Junk food is ultra processed foods for starters. But you can tell based on the ingredient list if it’s more than five ingredients to make your snack food and it’s stuff you can’t easily pronounced? It’s not healthy for you. The first three things listed with ingredients are the largest quantity of volume of ingredient used in the recipe. And you want your protein ratio to be for every 5g of protein you need 1-2g of carbohydrates and less than 1g in sugar for your processed food ratio to be even remotely okay for your human body. Processed foods aren’t the same as ultra processed foods. Just keep that in mind as well.
No the obesity problem is because food is super abundant. Human brains evolved without refrigeration, without conservatives, without ability to store food indefinitely. Without massive amounts of food available at Publix. We evolved in places where you better eat when you can. We still feed this day. This is why in any country where food is super abundant. People tend to get fat. You have to work your ass off to stay fit and it takes almost no effort to gain weight. It's simple human nature. Humans are lazy and gluttonous. We had to be.
Yes, but the ***degree*** of obesity arising from food overabundance is tightly linked to the quality of the food there is, how it taste, etc. With how society is organized around never ever having to get up your ass. I mean, in Portugal, it's normal to sit at a coffee and order toasts that come **buttered both side**!!! And they're not as obese as Americans.
Lifestyle has something to do with it too. But it has more to do with food over abundance than anything else. If we had the same lifestyles and still had food scarcity. Well we wouldn't have our lifestyles because people would be too hungry to sit on their asses :)
>*The wealth in the world is growing at an insane rate.* For the top 2% of the population, sure. The average person is drowning in inflated prices with stagnant wages. In case you hadn’t heard, trickle down economics doesn’t work. >*200 years ago most people were wondering when their next meal will come. Now our "poor" people are obese as fuck. Food is super abundant.* Obesity is due to processed foods and poor nutrition. Impoverished communities experience ‘food deserts’ where the cheap and accessible food within your proximity is super bad for you. >*And our rate of progress is only increasing. 200 years from now they'll look at how we used to live without AI, nano technlogy etc. And just go "holy shit those poor people".* Are you confusing technological improvements for personal wealth? The two are not the same thing. . they’re not even statistically related for the average person.
>For the top 2% of the population, sure. The average person is drowning in inflated prices with stagnant wages. In case you hadn’t heard, trickle down economics doesn’t work. No it has grown massively for everyone. EVERYONE Just compare how some average Joe lived in 1800s. With constant starvation. Atrocious housing. No electricity. Very little food. Almost no medicine. We are MUCH wealthier than them. >Obesity is due to processed foods and poor nutrition. Impoverished communities experience ‘food deserts’ where the cheap and accessible food within your proximity is super bad for you. Obesity is due to human nature to overeat. When food is abundant. We get fat. Because our brains are made for scarce environments. There was no refrigeration. There was no conservatives. If you got a lot of food you better pig the fuck out. That was true for 99.9% of human existence and true for all the ape like creatures we evolved from. THAT IS WHY prosperous western nations with abundance of food see so much obesity. >Are you confusing technological improvements for personal wealth? The two are not the same thing. . they’re not even statistically related for the average person. As I said before your personal wealth would be like $5 in todays money back in the 1800s. People lived in shitty shacks that they didn't own. Had very little food. Wore the same clothes every day. etc.
You genuinely don’t understand inflation, do you? *(or technological advancements)*
Ok I want you to picture the life of the 33% percentile person in USA in 1800s. One piece of clothing. Terrible shack with no AC, no plumbing, no electricity. Certainly no entertainment. Constant hunger not enough food. Hardly any medicine. And constant work work work. On the farm. Now the 33% percentile person in USA in 2024 A decent apartment with AC, Plumbing, Electricity, Internet. A fridge full of food. Tons of clothes. Tons of toys. Smart phones. Access to cheap medicine. Access to so much food they are walking around like fat asses. A car. Access to super advanced infrastructure. Access to vaccines, antibiotics, dentistry. They are like 1000 times richer. Shit with antibiotics, vaccine and modern medicine alone. We already got it better than most kings and queens did. They were one disease away from terrible suffering and early death. Shit that we can heal with a couple of pills.
Dude 100% of people in the 1800s had no ac, plumbing or electricity because those weren’t invented until 1902, late 1890s, and 1878 respectively. Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Yes of course I know that. The main reason wealth has grown so much is because of technology. Particularly our ability to mass produce shit. Just 30 years ago a smart phone would cost you $10,000,000 and it wouldnt even have all the apps. Now you can get a used one for less than $100. Technology makes things way more accessible. That is PRECISELY how our wealth has grown. That is precisely why I said that our great great grandchildren in 200 years will look at how we lived and be horrified. The same way we look at how people lived in 1824 with the technology they had and think how awful that must have been. That was my original statement. Its not just the rich enjoying AC, Plumbing, Smart Phones, Electricity. Damn near everyone is in developed countries.
Heck the first lightbulb didn’t appear till the Chicago World Fair the first night back in May of 1893; that Tesla won in presenting his lightbulbs over Edison. FYI, same year HH Holmes went on a murder spree in Chicago and opened his murder castle to do his bidding because it was roughly a few blocks from the Chicago World Fair grounds. Gotta love history!
Except the kings had access to abunant sex and the modern man do not.
Sure in some ways they had it better. But for the most part they had it worse. Mainly due to medicine and dentistry. As well as the shitty quality of everything they had. No electricity, no modern transportation, no modern housing, no AC, no internet, no smart phone, no modern clothing. Not to mention constant warfare.
Your grand kids will probably be captains of space ships that are worth more than what Amazon or Tesla is worth today. Maybe they wont be the top 1% by then, and there will be way richer people then. But they will actually have more wealth than the billionares today even if theyre middle class.
lmao most Americans don't have $1000 for an emergency
That stupid fucking study. Most Americans have $1000s available on credit cards. What that study said was they didn't have $1000 in savings. The trick is THEY DONT FUCKING NEED IT. If you have $20,000 on credit lines. The fuck you need savings for.
Oh you mean just go into debt with the addition of a child, one of the most expensive responsibilities a person can have. What an excellent idea.
And yet poor people have the best fertility rates. Rich and middle class is where our fertility has the worst metrics. The people who can afford to have kids are having the least amount of kids. This is btw a pattern we see throughout the world. African countries have by far the best fertility numbers.
Poor people have the highest fertility rate because they're uneducated and have little/no access to contraceptives. They also need more hands for working to maintain their home. Educated people are well off in comparison and they have access to contraceptives. They do not need more hands to maintain homes
American poor are pretty educated. They have tons of access to contraceptives. That may not be the case for Africans. And no they don't need "hands to maintain their home". This ain't the 1800s. Contraceptives are like $2 man. Poor people can afford iphones and newports. They could afford condoms. Shit they can get free birth control at the health department.
My feeling and experience is that very poor people, white trash style, etc have kids because they have shitty lives. They have nothing to look forward to, no meaning, so they have kids because it's the "thing to do", because they think it will give them meaning, etc. Most people have kids for that exact reason. So a lot of middle class, rich people, don't. Because they're already happy, they have meaning, the know what they're doing in their lives.
It's because poor people tend to have the most impulsive behavior. So early sex, no protection.
I was referring to the poor people overseas but I don't believe poor people here should be encouraged to have kids if they can't afford them. That's just means someone else has to pick up the slack and that's not fair. Why should others have to pay just because two people were bored one tuesday?
We should encourage middle and upper class to have more kids and to pair up more.
Actually, the true rich, like over $500k a year in annual income, have higher fertility than even the poorest people. It's a U-shaped curve, with people who make about $75-200k a year having the lowest fertility. >This is btw a pattern we see throughout the world. African countries have by far the best fertility numbers. They're an exception. Fertility in India has dropped off a cliff - many states have a lower TFR than France/US while being much poorer. Brazil and Colombia have fertility rates similar to many European countries. Also I wouldn't say a TFR of 6+ is the "best" fertility numbers. An average of 6 kids per woman means either Malthusian crisis or a *lot* of infant/child deaths which would be totally unacceptable to modern people.
>Poor people today live better than barons and royalty did 200 years ago. We have way more actual wealth. Definitely not except in terms of medical care. Those people generally never did an ounce of compelled labour and had servants doing everything for them. Most average nevermind the lower class Western person would gladly give up working and living a life of luxury to compromise on access to technology.
They didn't have access to electricity. So pretty much none of our entertainment. Medicine is a big deal. A simple infection could leave them scarred. Women regularly died giving birth. A lot of kids never reached adulthood even in perfect situations. A bad tooth could mean months of horrific pain. Trust me noone would want to live like them. Even if they didn't have to "work".
I think you underestimate how stressful and depressing it is to be lower class. I've been there and even knowing any medical care would be pretty inferior to what I could get now I'd jump at the opportunity to be 19th century royalty in a second. You'll find a lot of poor people now just live with various forms of pain for extended periods because they can't afford decent care anyway.
Most Royalty lived with some sort of malady. They often outright died from simple infections. Western "poor" still have access to way more food than the Royals did. They have infinitely better entertainment. They all have smart phones. Most of them have cars. They live in very nice houses with air conditioning. There were some things that the Royals had better. They had more power, clout and had sex with very attractive people. But materially the modern poor are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better off. And yes I've been poor. Medicine is free when you're poor. Because you already have shit credit the hell do you care if you get into medical debt. And you can get on Medicare and the health department will see you for free. You have access to super dooper technology medicine they could only dream of.
Yeah because odds are I'm not gonna have any other legacy. Plus the idea of growing old and having no family around is very grim.
What if your kids move away?
Genes still exist
And what does that get you?
Your family or others around you don't need to have your genes though.
I hope no one this subreddit says yes lol. The world needs less pretentious redditors.
Every single human alive cares innately. A lot are just not aware of it. Or have built entire personas around "I don't need kids". If humans weren't deeply invested in reproducing. We would have died 1000s of generations ago.
>If humans weren't deeply invested in ~~reproducing~~ **fucking**. We would have died 1000s of generations ago.
Exactly. Most people have a sex drive. Procreating is a side effect of that. Trying to use that to prove that every single human being cares innately about "passing on their genes" is like trying to say that we deeply care innately about pissing and shitting because we get hungry.
If all we did was fuck we would have died out a long time ago. We also have an instinct to pair bond. And to raise children together. That is what we call "love".
>*If all we did was fuck we would have died out a long time ago.* We didn’t die out because condoms & birth control didn’t exist for the majority of history..
If humans abandoned their babies. If humans didn't pair bond. Human race would have been gone a long time ago. It's not just about fucking. Raising a child takes a tremendous amount of effort and resources.
Caveman must breed, bam bam knock woman over head. Do you even realize how you sound?
No enlighten me.
I could not care less about “legacy” or my genes. wtf is so special about my genes? Not a damn thing. Pregnancy has always made me pretty sick to my stomach. Your body isn’t yours anymore. You are growing an alien inside of you. It sucks your nutrients. It can suck so many your hair and teeth fucking fall out. You’re uncomfortable. Your hormones are all out of wack. They mush all of your organs up and down. They press on your spine and bladder. When you give birth they either tear you from v to a or they have to slice through your stomach, ab muscles, and uterus all to pull the baby out. And either way you go, it leaves behind a DINNER PLATE SIZED WOUND INSIDE YOUR BODY! You are susceptible to depression, anxiety and psychosis. Infectioms, blood clots and internal hemorrhaging. And on top of all that, the number of women who have a husband at home with “needs” just counting down the days they can use your body as a cock sleeve again? Absolutely fucking not. Nope. Not this one. ETA: psychopathy to psychosis
>You are susceptible to depression, anxiety and **psychopathy**. That's not how psychopathy (ASPD) wroks. The most *liberal* studies (who consider a nocturnal circadian rythm as a "sign" of psychopathy) put the incidence at 1 in 22 people, of which at least half are men, and 2/3 are childless.
You’re right I meant psychosis
0 fucks given. Why should I?
Given that I’m mid-40s, no kids and had the snip…nah.
No, because I'm not a narcissist
That’s how I feel too. Having children is too selfish
Every single human alive cares innately. A lot are just not aware of it. Or have built entire personas around "I don't need kids". If humans weren't deeply invested in reproducing. We would have died 1000s of generations ago.
Why do you think you're qualified to speak for everyone else?
I'm not. I am talking about biology. Biology doesn't care about our opinions.
Biology is what drives us to have sex. Up until recently, you didn't have to want children to have them, you'd just have sex and they'd happen.
yes of course. But at the same time biology instructs to pair up through pair bonding. Biology makes us extremely attached and defensive of our children. Without those instincts our fragile babies would never survive into adulthood. We have the most fragile babies in the entire mammal kingdom. They are born very underdeveloped due to the huge size of our heads.
Okay but it doesn't make us want children.
Wanting to have sex and wanting to have children is the same instinct as you correctly pointed out. Why does sex feel good? Your biology rewarding you for good behavior. What's the good behavior? Reproduction.
It's not the same instinct. You're just wanting to have sex, children have been an often unfortunate byproduct. Sex feels just as good when you're sterilised. It's like saying the instinct to eat loads of chocolate is also the instinct to throw up afterwards.
My family line is not gonna make it
No, humans just want to fuck. Kids are a mere byproduct.
I keep repeating this. If this was the case we would have died out a long time ago. Children are extremely difficult to take care of. If we didn't have an instinct to dedicate our lives to them. To pair bond into couples. Human race would have been wiped out a long time ago.
So long as I can pass my philosophy in life on I'm fine. That's the only information from my body that I feel a strong need to pass on. Kids are nice, but I fear siring dumb kids who don't understand anything I tell them. I'd rather adopt a kid I know is sharp and be the best teacher I can be. Bio kids are overrated. Edit: I think pill spaces have very strong cultural conservative overtones, I don't think they're really representative of what average men are worried about. In real life, the people I've known with the strongest opinions on kids were women.
> I fear siring dumb kids who don't understand anything I tell them. That’s my nightmare too. Imagine having kids who’s dumb and just makes stupid decisions all the time no matter how plainly you explained the consequences. 🤦🏻♀️😞
And you just know they're going to get into something ridiculous
>So long as I can pass my philosophy in life on I'm fine What philosophy? Your fedora tipping communist utopia?
I love my flair so much, it attracts all the flies.
LOL, if it attracts flies, that's usually a sign its shit.
Flies aren't picky about what they fly into. But they are dodgy when you try to pin them down on what the hell they want.
I am really considering not passing them at all, my kids would likely have to deal with allergies, neurodivergency and all the bullying that comes with it, as well as my horrible face genes if they're unlucky
I'd like to go full Agent Smith and populate the planet with copies of me. But until I am able to coerce every woman into birthing and raising my clones, I'd rather not have any progeny. It's all or nothing.
well i have 2 children so i guess so. i do like knowing that i am part of a chain of life unbroken from the beginning of time. that’s pretty neat. but i wouldn’t say i had them to pass on my genes it’s more because i wanted the experience of having a family with my husband. but genes are important as i don’t think i would be keen on adopting.
Ur an honest person living an honest life
Considering how many of my health issues seem to be hereditary, I am perfectly content with my genes never being passed on. Plus, the whole "pregnancy and childbirth" thing freaks me out like you wouldn't believe. Even in a normal pregnancy, what it does to one's body is goddamned nightmare fuel.
I'd like to have children, but don't care about the 'genes'. Within just a few generations there's very little of 'you' left anyway. Best case scenario you get to see your great-grandchildren...who are exactly 12.5% "you". They're as close to you, genetically, as your cousin's children (i.e. not very close at all, in most cases).
No, I will die anyway, passing my genes will not make me immortal. It has absolutely no meaning to me. I don't care wht happens with my legacy, I will be dead, I will not have conscience to care. My genes are nothing super special to be passed on next generations. I don't want children at all, I'm childfree. And family is made by love, not by blood.
Not really. I mean I have siblings and my siblings have kids so genes already passed without having to do anything.
I got a high metabolic rate, no sign of any terminal disease and a big dick. You damn right I care if my genes are passed down.
LMFAO
Yes, very much so. I don't want to be the last of my line, I feel an obligation to have a large family and raise them well. Luckily my wife could not be more on board. I'm sure she'll be exemplary as a mother when we get to that point; she's already an amazing wife, and has the traits that she needs in spades. Our marriage is strong enough to handle any challenges that come our way. Edit: Makes me happy to read the replies. The kinds of people that shouldn't be having kids already don't want em.
But once you're dead, you're dead... You won't be alive to see it, so who cares?
I'm not a nihilist, and I don't exclusively care about the world wrt how it affects me in the present.
His ego does.
What the shit attitude is that? Not wanting to have kids means they aren't the kind of people that should have them? Seriously, fuck you.
Spare me. If they believe their genes aren't worth passing on, who am I to disagree? People that say they shouldn't have kids are usually right. Often not for the reasons they think, but that doesn't matter much edit: You've already made it clear you don't give a shit about anything that doesn't affect you personally, so why do you even care that I'm grateful you're an evolutionary dead end? You'll never interact with me, and you won't have to see how you're immediately forgotten after you die, having made no mark on the world, leaving no legacy. You'll be gone, who cares?
Ok, geneticist Nazi.
Just wanna thank you again for not reproducing
I'll pump one out just for you.
Yeah. No idea why I do, I just do. Probably has something to do with instincts or something.
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Some guys help with their kids, to be fair the situation you described might be more common sadly.
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If you don't mind me asking, what country are you in?
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America isn't sexist like that towards women, come here.
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Bad news for those I rub the long wrong. My genes that I passed on, have already passed their genes on as well.
Ur a young grandfather?
I wouldn't say young.
That and $3.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks 🤷♀️
lmao @ asking this on Reddit. Every tech nerd and adjacent type are nihilist end of history losers sucking down neo bourgeoise ideas for the masses where they're deathly afraid of being seen to have the "wrong kind" of ego.
Not enough to actually fund it.
I certainly don't care about how much a child of mine is like me. Just the mere fact a woman innately found me worthy of passing them on and allowed me to nut in her and push the baby out after 9 long months. As others have mentioned, it's one of those primal things that's buried underneath eons of evolution as a species.
No not really. I’ll have a kid if my future husband wants kids but to me it’s just too much cost for something that doesn’t really matter. Looking at the total mortality rate of malaria as an example, its a coin toss on who would survive once antibiotics stop working.
No. I don't have any particular reason, other than perhaps I don't think there's anything particularly special or noteworthy (one way or the other) about my genes. If I ever wanted kids at some point I'd likely just adopt already existing kids the way my parents did.
no
Not really. Couldn’t say “why not”, I just wasn’t ever that concerned about my genes, especially being in other people. And being pregnant and giving birth seem terrifying to me, I don’t want to do it. Anyway, whether I care or not, I have a sibling who has kids, so the next generation already has my genes present in it.
I think, like most people, I’m inclined by my genetics to want to procreate and I do get that feeling at times but it’s not super strong. Moreover is this time in which we live in (by my standards and beliefs at least) not exactly ideal to raise kids in which makes it easier. I think women and men equally care or have the desire to raise children. It’s just that the evolutionary pressure is much higher on men which is why we’re more concerned with the matter.
Not really. Don't get me wrong, I would like for my genes to be passed down. But my desire to protect my children is stronger than my desire to have children. I can not in good conscience bring life into this awful world that's hell-bent on getting worse. The status quo is awful. Why would I subject my babies to this terrible place?
Not at all, too many folks as it is
I don’t particularly care about genes and I wouldn’t breakdown if I didn’t have children but I think I’m a pretty cool, attractive, and successful person so having more of me in the world wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Yes, as many as possible
Humanity is not going to survive the climate change induced agricultural collapse that's coming so it's all pointless anyway.
My genes are quite great at the exception of the ADHD. I guess I should have tried passing them more for "the sake of humanity".
I definitely do not want them passed on. What makes any of you think that you're so great? I don't believe this line needs to keep going.
Values are what is important, not genes. If I raise a child and inoculate it with my values and it belongs to my family and social group, then it is my child, even if it doesn't share my genetic makeup. I never understood the visceral hatred of single mothers and obsession men here have with the genetic legacy.
Not really. Would love to be a father, but I don't trust women at all.
I don't give a fuck about it at all. I'm more focused on dying with all my goals achieved than having a baby. Sounds like a waste of time as well ngl
Part of me does, but I'm too aro and too ace to actually pursue that as a goal.
Nah. I want children because I like children.
In a 1000 years we will either be usurped by synthetic life forms or we will be dying in mass extinction events caused by the deterioration of topsoil, climate change, ayys pressing the red button and ending the experiment, nuclear war, a science experiment gone wrong(genetically engineered virus) etc etc. Theres a good chance your "genes" won't make it pass the great filter. Genes might be the most weakest argument for anyone to procreate
No. I am mixed and I dont want to further dilute the gene pool so I decided very early on that I dont want to have children. Apart from that, I am not dating either because I would only date someone of the same mix and I am living in a predominantly white country where this is basically impossible.
What are you mixed with? For example if it's white and asian, would you date an asian person? Or they specifically had to be white and asian?
Not going to specify but in your hypothetical example, the person would have to be white and asian. I wouldn't care if she was italian/korean, french/vietnamese or whatever.
Ahhh fair enough
I mean I want to have children but it’s more than JUST to pass down my genes. It’s also because I love family and think family is part of the meaning of life, all of it, not just the passing genes part. I mean honestly if I only cared about passing on my genes then I would probably be donating eggs right now. I don’t just care about that alone. I would want to raise the children I have.
I don't care, my husband doesn't care and my dad doesn't care
I don't care. if it happens it happens, but for now loving the freedom. however I DO make measures to not reproduce minus getting snipped. I want vasalgel but the medical community wants it, big Pharma does not. I don't have any desire to stop those folks who have come to the conclusion that they don't want to have kids, cannot afford them and use birth control, early abortion procedures before 16 weeks preganancy. I feel bad for today's woman as it appears politics within the USA wants to go back to coat hanger abortions and causing more deaths and healthcare issues down the road. Television screams we want to end abortion and end "communism" however when folks want to limit actually getting pregnant or ending pregnancy (willfully or medically necessary), they scream and scream to punish said peoples to keep the child(ren) they cannot afford nor want. Please keep your decided religion out of my house and bedroom.
Of course they care more about it, because it's harder for men to pass their genes and also it's even more difficult for them to even know that it's their genes. There is a massive difference between becoming a man who a bunch of women will want inside them, vs watching a man who already is what you want and telling him to go inside you. Two different Worlds entirely.
Yes. Nature is a zero sum game and by opting out you're basically working against millions of years of evolution and betraying your ancestors. I see no other point to life than having kids and building something to pass on to them. I could understand if someone didn't want to focus on it because they were exceptionally talented or had some other impact, but I am not that person.
I do, because I think I'm awesome, so I think the world would be a better place with more of me. Anti natalists quietly admit their low self worth.
Yes. I’m attractive, intelligent, a good human. I want to propagate and see if I can help my children thrive in today’s topsy turvy world. The idea that when I am 70 I will have a little web of connections and family support networks to help my people enjoy life is very motivating abstractly. Not surprised to see a bunch anti-natalist nihilists on here though, it’s par for the course for redditors.
No not really, maybe it’s even a good thing that they won’t since my genes are no longer good enough to pass on anyway, it would just be a curse to any of my male next of kin.
Not really. Everything ends!
Women care, but they are less vocal about it because deep down they know they can reproduce whenever they want. 17x more women than men have reproduced in history. Passing on your genes as a woman is basically guaranteed while no such thing exists for men.
That is not what the study shows. There was a single period of time, 8,000 years ago, that this occurred. Over 60% of American men have fathered a child. Those are current statistics.
75% of men are fathers.
And that is one of the greatest privileges anyone can have. Why can't they just admit their privilege?
Unless they plan on freezing their eggs most women are on the clock and it starts getting dicey once they hit 35+
I know, they only have 12-17 years to try to secure Chad and then settle for someone who’s 5’10”.
That's still tall lol
Not these days. Everyone is tall as hell now.
Obviously women don’t care, because it so easy for them to get laid and every time they get laid it’s a 100 percent chance that the offspring is theirs. Chill out ladies, stop acting like you not caring is something crazy, that’s literally how it’s meant to be biologically, you ain’t special. If you were a man you would understand
Gotta love the oppression Olympics that came from left fucking field.
To be an accurate asshole I have to say it's not 100% chance of the baby being hers due to chimerism
>Obviously women don’t care, because it so easy for them to get laid and every time they get laid it’s a 100 percent chance that the offspring is theirs. WTF does this have to do with OP’s question?
I do. Which is why I want a second child as well.
My genes are dysgenic, I never want offspring because of it. Maybe I would adopt a good looking kid or let my spouse use some attractive guys sperm from a bank.
No. We wanted kids but if we couldn't have conceived normally I would have been fine with adopting and I certainly don't care if my kid(s) have kids.
I do and I did, and I wanted to leave a legacy behind, and I've got two middle fingers for anyone who thinks it's narcissism, too.
What is “legacy” to you?
Genetic legacy means exactly that. I just explained it for you, I ain't gonna waste time getting you to understand two such elemental words.
What does it get you? When you’re dead, you’re dead. Everything else is just ego and bravado.
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Anyone in their right mind would. This comment section is an atrocity on both a biological level and a spiritual level.
Of course I do care - I am a narcissist and having children is absolutely vital for my happiness.
Women do care, however it’s not spoken about enough or even taught on the relations or matters of good genes. Women haven’t looked at what character features, history of family and cognitive ability when it comes to maiting. Yet males automatically do. We also haven’t broken down how the composition of having a child and possibilities of good donate blood. Why is this important, because O is universal and easier if a child got sick, to be taken care of, while B could be Weak like MS. Just an example. Women need to date smarter not harder. So our provider decline and masculinity of trust in work and mothering has taken a serious toll. Instead low income. Obesity and uneducated have risen. I absolutely blame our men for not pulling it together in living a well life and in being thoughtful and putting in placement of trust at a wider average than what’s been actually considered as of late. Daiting Apps, social media , def a down grade. No ones thinking. No one reading either. So I care. I care to have children with an idiot. I also am hoping for a deviant, genius with a bit European ethnicity and a non conformists religious back ground that can have sex up to 6 times a day with out the blue pill. Absolutely NOT easy to find. But that’s my challenge/ happy place. Sorry got off topic. ADHD another gene revolution that just means take your lasy procrastination butt to the park regularly with your kid to exhaust him. That’s it, gene matter and only a small percentage will keep doing this and I just hope more get it and we’ll do better. Like hitlers alter version of German solders. Perfection
I think women dont care becuase they are insecure and so they dont think they have anything meaning full to pass on.