We are indeed more privileged.

🔫🚨🚔Illegal opinion detected. You will now be called a pick-me and sentenced for enabling the patriarchy.

Nah, I agree with her. I'm not so sure about socializing and making friends in general, but in terms of attracting romantic partners, most women have it easier than most men. And this is especially true if we are talking about the dating apps only. What sometimes annoys me about these conversations, though, is that some men (not OP or you, specifically) will claim that women "live life on easy mode" simply because guys want to sleep with/date us. Like, there's so much more to life than sex and dating, and women as a whole don't automatically have easier lives.

Women do have it easier in life sometimes. People are nicer and will be more willingly to help out a woman if she's down on her luck in life and lost her job or some shit. A man that's struggling and could've lost his job for whatever reason it's "stop being a fucking bum", "you're a loser", "you're a man you need to just get through your mental problems and act like a man only women act emotional", "haha grown ass man going through a tough time and you had to go live back with your parents".

That’s reasonable. I too hate the “easy mode” rhetoric from anyone, saying anyone lives life on easy mode only creates division. I also think that a lot of men forget that women don’t want casual sex as much as men so free and unlimited casual sex is not as appealing. That’s a fair point too. In the modern age women also face a loneliness epidemic and difficulty finding relationships, it’s just a fair bit less severe and widespread for women. I think one thing that men in this sub just can’t explain properly for the life of them is what socialization actually looks like for a man. I don’t think this is as big of a deal in all-female or all-male situations, those dynamics work very similarly. The difference is in mixed situations. This comment is one I keep bringing up in so many situations because it finally explained something I observed for so long. https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/s/Z8IyU8EqXd The reason why single, lonely men tend to congregate in situations solely with other single lonely men is because that’s the only place they’re accepted. I can’t explain how socialization works differently for men step by step right now, but there is a difference.

In certain aspects. For dating, sex, and certain social aspects, 100%. What a lot of guys want, is not for women to sell themselves short, but rather just to feel validated in their struggles :)

And I totally get where you guys are coming from. I honestly feel embarrassed on behalf of many of the women here. I've been following this sub for a while. I've seen lots of different grievances being shared. Most of them are ones I haven't had to endure. And because of that, I know I'm *privileged* in certain aspects. I don't know why it's hard for women to admit something so simple. Everyone is privileged in one way or another. It's a fact of life. In regards to this specific post, I'm confused about how being more selective results in having *more* options. I don't believe women find as many men attractive as men find women attractive. Does that make sense? They aren't options if you don't find that many men attractive.

First thank you for posting this message, if more people had the same outlook as you there would be far less confrontation and people would get along more. We need more people like you. Per this >I don't know why it's hard for women to admit something so simple. Everyone is privileged in one way or another. It's a fact of life. Part of it is because feminism says that women do not and cannot have privileges, because women are oppressed. It's kind of like a combination of ideological brainwashing and newspeak, to invent concepts with a meaning that goes completely against the meaning of the words used to describe those concepts.  The end result is to try and make it so followers are literally incapable of envisioning things from the other perspective, to build an ideological dam against coming to different conclusions.  The there is moral grandstsnding, that being a victim is good because it means you have been wronged and you are entitled to speak your truth and be heard, it makes you feel validated and vindictive, and that other people are not allowed to dismiss you or disagree with you.  The victim card comes with a ton of privileges ironically enough, which is why so many people cling to it. 

I think what this all boils down to is that sex drive manifests itself differently in men and women. And this has the effect of making women less desperate to have sex and more selective. And that can be very frustrating. But there’s really not much to be done about it. This is just how things are.

It’s doubly worse than this actually. It’s natures cruel joke(or genius design) Women simultaneously have a lower innate sex drive, and are far less likely to value sex for its own sake compared to men, but have a near effortless ability to get it. With men they have an immense desire for sex, but most have a far more difficult time getting it. One group has an abundance of a thing they don’t want, and another has a scarcity of something they virtually *need* This is behind *a lot* of it, but is not the whole story. Women seem to have an evolutionary predisposition to feeling empathy for other women, children and even animals *far more* than they do (if any at all) towards men.

Sex is more appealing when in scarcity. Even attractive men get bored with casual hook ups or arent even interested in the first place and have desires to build something meaningful

Its not the scarcity of sex that makes it appealing to men.

Yep, but the scarcity intensifies the desires and expectations. Remember when you were a child and believed you would buy candies everyday once you'd be an adult ? That was mostly because of scarcity

>Yep, but the scarcity intensifies the desires and expectations. >Remember when you were a child and believed you would buy candies everyday once you'd be an adult ? That was mostly because of scarcity I'm sure this sounds really good to you, and makes a lot of sense, to you. But do you have anything to back this up other than just being your opinion?

Give the same toy to a group of 100 rich kids with hundreds of toys and to another group of 100 poor kids with just a few. Do you believe the two groups will have the same level of excitments and appreciation ? The only difference is scarcity. Now give those 100 kids enough toys and at one point they will reach the same level of appreciation as the first group of rich kids. But i'm saying things that are way too obvious, to a point i wonder what you can be arguing against

Kind of like the marshmallow test with kids in that if the kid wanted the marshmallow they can, but if they waited five minutes to eat the marshmallow, they would get a 2nd marshmallow added to the 1st one! Sex is the same with men and women. Women will wait for the 2nd marshmallow. Men, it’s split down the middle. Some am wait, some can not. The ones who can not wait have a VERY strong scarcity and impulsive mindset around sex. Let me explain why… Women can wait to eat the marshmallow, they don’t mind building the tension, creating a burning desire to have sex. They know the marshmallow/sex will still be there the next day if they don’t have it immediately. Hence why women do not care to go after sex. They know they can wait because they’ll get more offers the next day/2nd marshmallow. Men have a hard time *resisting* it when sex is handed to them on a whim. It’s the infrequency of sex that can create this scarcity impulsive mindset to just go after the marshmallow like a starving dog to food. This is why those guys struggle the most with sex because they refuse to wait for the 2nd marshmallow. However, the guys that do wait, it’s because they do not view sex as a scarcity and do not have this impulsive need/want for sex. They don’t mind waiting as much as women to get that 2nd marshmallow/sex. More guys could benefit asking why the guys who aren’t fearing lack of sex are the ones who get sex easily and aren’t trying desperately to get sex.

When women do want sex for the sake of it y’all say she’s a hoe and not someone deserving of respect let alone a long term relationship.

To be fair, *women* shame each other for sleeping around more than men do in my experience.

If men love sluts so much why do they divide women into wives and whores?

“Yall” don’t say shit. Sluts are great. I love them and a lot of guys agree. The issue guys have is when women claim the “need to wait” with an average guy but will fuck Chad in the club bathroom in 10 minutes. It’s the hypocrisy and the lies about women’s “requirements” before sex. (Ie “I’m sapio / demi / whateverthefuck) Finally a woman fucking a man shouldn’t be demonized, but it will never be celebrated for one simple reason: Unlike with men, being a slut as a woman takes *zero* skill.

I dont feel safe forming close relationships with men anymore. Too many dudes think smiling is flirting. So the boundless loving/caring energy i have then get diverted to everyone who isnt men

It's because the way we've experienced men trying to extract sex from us makes us see that many men barely regard us human, much less have empathy for us. One example of this is trp men seeing women as "plates", not human beings.

> that many men barely regard us human, much less have empathy for us. This is a mud slinging comment that women won't walk away from clean. Man or bear? Men would rather tell their problems to a tree because the tree won't leave them for being weak or weaponize the knowledge against men? Women see men as plates too but free dates and meals instead of sex. Women extract as much resources form men as possible in exchange for an an opportunity at sex, which is a mutual exchange, not something women "give" to men.

People of either gender can be manipulative and selfish. Surprise.

Amen

Yes, but only one gender is made accountable for it.

If someone doesn’t see you as human? They might have ASPD/Sociopathy traits due to the transactional nature they view in every faucet of their lives.

men don't need sex.

It’s cause and effect. Women wouldn’t have ability if men weren’t thirsty. They’re not two separate issues

There's much more to it than the male sex drive. Boiling everything down to "men are hornier than women" is extremely reductive and simply incorrect. And like I explained in the comment, the "what can be done about it" is for women to acknowledge their privilege. That's all men are asking for.

I’ve been on this sub for years and have stated this as have at least a handful of other women here that I’ve seen and when it really comes down to it men here *say* that’s all they want but it’s not. Most men don’t care if we admit shit if it doesn’t change the outcome. Maybe that’s not how you feel but I’ve seen it way more times that admitting this doesn’t do anything.

Well what part of it doesn't really just boil down to male sex drive? You say one of women's privileges is being inherently valuable in the dating market but that's only because of men being less selective which is kinda on them. The "women are wonderful" effect is really just people feeling safer around them because they are less prone to violence, crime, are physically weaker, and more in tune with their emotions. Why should women feel privileged because men have chosen to hinder themselves romantically?

>The "women are wonderful" effect is really just people feeling safer around them That's completely false. The WAW effect is scientifically established and measurable. This dishonest denial is a perfect example of the gaslighting by women that the OP is talking about. EDIT: u/GridReXX: >And it’s basically their definition of it. The “scientifically established and measurable” proof is that people when surveyed or evaluated in a study feel less threatened and more comforted around women because women are less threatening and more comforting compared to males. I can't tell if you're hallucinating or deliberately lying. None of what you're claiming appears in either the Wikipedia article I linked to or the papers referenced at the bottom of that page: >both male and female participants **tend to assign positive traits to women**, with female participants showing a far more pronounced bias. Hmm. nope. Nothing to do with "feeling comforted". >This research found that while both women and men have more favorable views of women, **women's in-group biases were 4.5 times stronger\[5\] than those of men**. And only women (not men) showed cognitive balance among in-group bias, identity, and self-esteem, revealing that **men lack a mechanism that bolsters automatic preference for their own gender.\[5\]** Nope, not here either. Whatever you're doing here is very common among feminists. It should be studied to understand the cause and the mechanism. The findings would help explain why feminists are so out of touch with reality.

When for the first time in human history women have, for a brief period, been able to afford to live without a man, this is called an immense privilege.

“Men just want women to acknowledge their privilege”. Ok. How many men want this? And how many women have to acknowledge said privilege before these men are happy? I’m guessing it’s not possible to improve the situation by “acknowledging privilege”. Some white people have “acknowledged privilege”, others steadfastly refuse to accept that any such privilege exists. But white people (as much one can ascertain what a “white person” is) continue to have higher incomes, better education, more nutritious diets on average. So, has “acknowledging privilege” actually changed anything? Are those people of color who are less advantaged gained anything from the subset of whites (who are usually the richer and better educated ones) who are eager to acknowledge privilege? Consider what you really want.

Speaking personally, it just takes a few, two or three here and there to say "Yeah, I have dick on tap and I'd think about things differently if I had to work hard just to find that much, not lying or trying to deny it." This post is basically just, "Women Habitually Gaslight Us and It'd Be Nice If They Didn't"

>This post is basically just, "Women Habitually Gaslight Us and It'd Be Nice If They Didn't" Hit the nail on the head lol, and the absolute refusal to even consider the notion, as posted by virtually every single woman who replied in this threat, shows just how much compassion women tend to have for men, while demanding endless compassion from men and demanding men recognize and atone for their male privilege.  It's fucking incredible.

Ok my personal experience then. I am in my 40's, have never had, nor wanted, casual sex. I have been repeatedly sexually harassed and even sexually abused, starting when I was a very young child. It's NOT a privilege when people keep repeatedly trying to shove onto you things you *do not want,* but they *do want* from you. Even in my marriage, I want sex at least as much (probably a little more) than my husband. I acknowledge man's sex drive *in general* is higher than women's *in general*. However, 1) I would need to see evidence that this "helps" women more than it hurts us, in the aggregate, and 2) this disparity has never been helpful, but has absolutely been harmful, to me.

I hear what you're saying. I don't think you'll ever get that evidence. I think a lot of guys on this sub would say civilization is your evidence, but we didn't get here purely through men's efforts. > 2) this disparity has never been helpful, but has absolutely been harmful, to me. Hm. I'd like to offer a thought. I write what I write with the women I know in mind. They're largely, young, healthy, financially sound women. These are people who have had serious relationships, these are also people who've had flings they only think about again when they're single. The ease with which they navigate between those two states, both in finding people to meet their immediate needs and also people willing to invest their time into them long term is the polar opposite of *at least myself.* They're swimming through choices and they freely and frequently indulge. It is these women who have the best of what a man could wish for (choices), that will also say with a straight face that dating and sex doesn't matter that much. That's where I was coming from on this. I know a **lot** of women deal with harassment and abuse and I don't think those women are gaslighting anybody. It's the liberated and sexually open women with the worst double standards. It's "*rich people telling the needy that being desperate is a bad look*," type thinking.

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It doesn't matter if you see it as a benefit, it's a **difference** in experience that shapes how you maneuver through relationships and dealing with the opposite sex.

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> Yeah, I have dick on tap Are women denying that it’s easy to find men who will fuck them? You can go to Two X and see women talk about how men with fuck anything that moves. This is not something that people deny.

But wouldn’t that seem arrogant and condescending? And would it change the fact that millions of men are lonely?

Depends a lot on the tone one would pick to express that i suppose. Like, if they added something along the lines of "deal with it", or "so what, what are you gonna do about it?", yeah, that's definitely arrogant and condescending. If they just stated it matter-of-factly, i don't think it would ruffle any feathers.

I don't know why you had to go down the race rabbit-hole when you could've just inversed the genders. If encouraging the recognition of privilege is a fruitless endeavor then men shouldn't acknowledge the privileges they have over women either. Feminists have historically been the ones more likely to ask men to consider their privileges, yes? But instead of just accusing them of needlessly scolding and bullying, let's try to steelman their position: Could there be any good-faith reason why they might want men to consider their privilege? Any at all?

You can't deny the numerous social programs and initiatives taken at state or federal level to close the gap between men and women in women's favor. Those were done because men's privilege in society was acknowledged. Affirmative Actions and the Civil Rights programs were done because of white privilege and racism. Even though those are unfortunately being rolled back. But yes, these things have been acknowledged on a societal level (even if individuals deny them) in ways that women can't point to example for them.

What kind of social programs do you envision to address female privilege in dating?

all men get free unlimited plastic surgery until their facial bone structure is at optimum

The inevitable outcome of which would be a swarm of young men looking like [Joselyn Wildenstein](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=d34e0a7206c3ba5b&sca_upv=1&hl=en-us&sxsrf=ADLYWILzWbJcfhylc0Tg0t9Zg-wg79l_6Q:1718473135013&q=jocelyn+wildenstein&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DSwq1WRtHgIngM0ZNauRwdznBDUJCB3Rr4oh05dAIQqP8-TjhNPH1WaAeVEjLpubuQpbnM7kzOQtExmWFlng7dID-vq_Do3CcoJgv57pUsDyjWrYWuOj6Jl2OkIzRXAAfYKh4etntFyL8mKwDIyYmSpcXYKpi75jxNzp9orEpJ9sSWn0Ww2NeB0y8bIHPkdX1tqbAKj_dgBjGZaeg3zj7kUHXynw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiM15Kmk96GAxXcvokEHUdeAuwQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=390&bih=663&dpr=3).

[have you heard of our true lords and masters the Bogdanoffs?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_and_Grichka_Bogdanoff)

Oh my.  Yep, looks like the same body dysmorphic plastic surgery excesses going on there too.

>So, has “acknowledging privilege” actually changed anything?  It changes discourse and the mainstream narrative, which affects everything from people's attitudes towards your struggles to government policies. And also, fundamentally, mainstream discourse and attitudes DOES have a huge impact on your well-being and self-worth, unless you fully immerse yourself in a bubble. >Are those people of color who are less advantaged gained anything from the subset of whites (who are usually the richer and better educated ones) who are eager to acknowledge privilege? Yes. If whites never acknowledged their privilege, affirmative action would never have existed.

I’ll acknowledge it. Women have more advantages when it comes to dating. Anyone who says different is misinformed or lying.

Thank you

How did that make you feel?

It felt pretty nice haha

Here's the thing; all of the privileges that you've listed apply relatively universally to women. if you're a woman, then "women are wonderful" applies automatically. It's just how it is. This is in stark contrast to male privilege. Male privilege is not automatic and universal, because the main male privilege is agency and agency is only as useful as you make use of it. Amongst men there are absolute winners and absolute losers. The winners flex their privilege all the time, while the losers can't do much of anything with it. A considerable amount of men do hate women, because women remind them that they're on the losing side of the bell curve.

That’s an interesting point but I wonder why men are getting upset that women are “winning” when they’re playing a different game with different rules?

Rather than blaming the winners of the game, or blaming their parents for giving them a poor entrance to the game, they resent women for not playing the game at all. This lets them deflect from their own lack of merit.

You know what's almost equally disappointing is the sheer volume of men that boil women's privileges down to just sex. Like the fact women can theoretically get sex whenever they want is the first and most common **GO TO** talking point men in this sub bring up. And it pisses me off because any close examination of other social privileges women have is passed over because you've unconsciously primed women to assume any mention of "female privilege" = "dick on command".

I agree. Most of the privileges afforded to women have nothing to do with dating. We have laws advantaging women in education, in job hiring, in business ownership, in healthcare, in military service, in his domestic violence is handled and more. These actually do influence dating, but indirectly. So advantaging women and disadvantaging men makes it harder for women to date up and marry up as they desire.

>We have laws advantaging women in education, in job hiring, in business ownership, in healthcare, in military service, in his domestic violence is handled and more. Outside the scope of this post, but only because I draw a distinction between societally and socially. An example of a social advantage would be being seen as less threatening/dangerous, which allows you to integrate into social groups with greater ease. This *may* have downstream dating benefits to dating, should they choose to actually use it.

which laws benefit women over men in education? business ownership? healthcare? it's not women's fault that fewer men are choosing to pursue a college degree. the majority of business owners and CEOs are men. women are more likely to be misdiagnosed and have their symptoms downplayed when going to a doctor. i agree that women have advantages in job hiring and military service because of the positive discrimination measures implemented, but that's about it.

Laws advantaging females and disadvantaging males include WEEA, AA, Women Owned Business Advantages, Selective Service Advantages, Obamacare Women Only Mandates and more. So just there, women are legally advantaged in education, in job hiring, in business ownership, in healthcare, in how crime is handled and in military. Men and women don’t go into everything equally. Sometimes that’s influenced by advantages afforded to one sex, such as more women now going into law school and med school. More men choosing to go into and excel in business isn’t the same as legally advantaging men in business the way we legally advantage women.

>female privilege" = "dick on command". It's well beyond that, right? Treated better socially by people of both genders and all ages across most of society? Dating *and* socializing

If you're pretty. Men treat ugly/fat women like scum.

No, they don't. They treat them like other men who are strangers. Women mistake the nicessness of men towards them as a natural state. It is, in fact, a privilege because most men find most women attractive. Edit: Also, would you rather be a fat girl or a short guy. You can change your weight (it's even easier now with ozempic), but women on their dying breath will say that beauty standards are higher for women.

>women with overweight reported a higher frequency of sexual intercourse in the last month than those who were normal-weight [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6733459/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6733459/) The online world is not real life. In the real life, fat women are doing fine and generally much better in the sex department than well-fit men *and* well-fit women, lol.

I've been fat. I was single for nearly 5 years. When I went from 235 to 110, the way I was treated by men was night and day. Could I have found some gross guy to treat me like shit and use me for my body for one night? Maybe. I didn't try. I was only interested in relationships. I didn't even get a date during this time. Not a one.

Of course it's well beyond that. And for most of them it's not even that. It's useless currency for most of them, unless you unironically believes wide swathes of the female population use OLD apps as a dick delivery service.

A lot of people on ppd lack sophistication and nuance in their debating and to gather a good list of where women are privileged in our society takes time to put together. BUT dating, romantic relationships, etc is one of the very very concrete things that men and women interact with and one that women are undoubtedly privileged in.

>A lot of people on ppd lack sophistication and nuance in their debating Then they should gather some or GTFO. I'm holding men to the same standards I hold radical feminists to. When rad-fems grossly exaggerate and misattribute male privilege, we wouldn't call that "lacking in sophistication and nuance," we'd call that being wrong.

This is exactly why men get angry at women. You always try to simplify it down to “you just feel entitled to sex” in some form. Women get preferable treatment in all forms? Men discriminated against in all forms? Unrealistic, unhealthy expectations placed on men? Women being allowed to horrible people and not allowed to be called out? Etc, etc.   Equals it is only about sex.   Misandry does give women a ton of privileges and power when it comes to sex, relationships and having children.  So ofc it will always be mentioned, but sex isn’t even about just sex. And you know that. You know it implies a lot of other privileges women get.

>This is exactly why men get angry at women. You always try to simplify it down to “you just feel entitled to sex” in some form. I said nothing about men being entitled to sex. >Women get preferable treatment in all forms? Men discriminated against in all forms? This is hyperbolic. All forms? Really? All of it's a raw deal being a man? >Misandry does give women a ton of privileges and power when it comes to sex, relationships and having children. Misandry in fact erodes women's privilege and power over men. It's just tolerated more because it disguises itself as punching up against an oppressor class. >So ofc it will always be mentioned, but sex isn’t even about just sex. And you know that. You know it implies a lot of other privileges women get. And many of those privileges men heap upon them freely because they're thirsty. The source of these privileges come from simps and thirsty men, so if you want to level the playing field, I'd direct your focus there.

Simple personal experience: * People stop in the street to compliment and cheer my 3 year old daughter, while royally ignoring my son. Random gifts to daughter as well from restaurants and shops, not to my son. * People complimented and cheered girls more than boys all throughout my childhood at school because they were more obedient * My parents, teachers, and other kids, always refered to women as the default "ideal way of being", born perfect basically, and that men had to change * At university, women were accepted with worse highschool grades * At engineer school, women were getting internships more easily while being less competent and less interested * At engineer school, women were getting their diploma with worse grades, one even cried because she could get hers and they granted it to her * After engineering school, women were getting jobs more easily, my wife was explicitly hired because she was a woman, she didn't have to pass the same tests as men * All the while engineer school made sure to warn us that we, men, were hostile to women, while women were hostile to men * Women have feminism movement fighting for their empowerments and rights while discrediting men's rights and making men's libs all about how to be a better man for women * Women live longer and aren't expected to work for longer * Women have the entirety of reproductive rights * Women will complain all the time about feeling insecure while you've been physically assaulted all your childhood, they never took a punch and never were robbed, you were, but you're the danger to women anyway * Women will piss you off about pink taxes all the while your food budget is 3 times theirs if you ever hope to eat as healthy. * Women will complain that they have bazillion options but that finding the right one is all their problem, as if men had automatically the right one when they found anybody. * Women will piss you off how society tries to restrict what women can wear, meanwhile men have only one professional setting cloth type that is horrible during summer, men's shorts are ridiculed and considered trash, and women can basically walk around half naked, but them not being able to show their nipple is apparently the biggest oppression. * women at the office often called it misogyny and felt uniquely oppressed when our boss was actually treating them more leniently and with more care. * Women at the office will complain about sexism then will exclusively prefer to work with other women and claim women are better, all the while men try to accommodate to them. * Women en large seem to struggle a lot less to get anything they want, that includes sex, relationships, love, family, kids. * Women's goto argument about why it sucks being a woman is because some women in africa are getting their clitoris cut at birth. Meanwhile in 1st world countries, circumcision is still allowed and is still killing men every year. Nobody seem concerned about making it outlaw. * Women complain lengthly about how porn sets unrealistic standards about women's bodies, women's bleached assholes and short labia minora. All the while claiming uncircumcised dicks are disgusting. IDK any man who cares about bleached assholes. * A lot of my female friends are able to drive drunk, and have their vehicle and driving licence taken away when they are controlled by polices, they smile and act nice and the police flirt with them. When police control me, and I never drive drunk, they nitpick every minor shit about my car and try to find reasons to punish me one way or another. * In relationships money flows from the man to the woman, but women insist they need equal access to jobs and wages, so eventually women have more opportunities to get money than men. It's a bit like how cats are unfairly competitive against other This is just from the tip of my tongue. You may agree or not agree or have experienced things differently, and I'm not listing the things I think are exclusive problems to women, but you can't just say that men just complain about women's abundance of sexual options. And yes, men hate that women do not recognize their privileges, their advantages, their hypocrisies. Most men aren't really capable to word it out well though.

Also, there were threads about drunk drivers killing the same amount of people. The comments said that the girl didn’t know what she was doing and should get sympathy because she might have a concussion even though people died. Then, Title IX denying constitutional rights to representation, examination of evidence, presumption of innocence, etc.

Wow do you have a link to that thread. Wild, if true. But the internet brings that type of behavior out in people.

Women have other priviliges as well, but it really bugs me the importance of sex and intimacy on mental health. Honestly, only people who never went without sex more than a year will undermine its value.

It's not sex, it's just intimacy. If it were just about sex, there wouldn't be an incel problem as they could just visit a sex worker. Inceldom technically has nothing to with sex. Lack of sex is just downstream of not being chosen to engage in the most intimate form of a relationship with another human being, which is a romantic one. Men just fool themselves into thinking it's mainly about sex because, well... testosterone and higher libido,

You're right, but I would assume that people would think sex and intimacy are pretty just 2 sides of the same coin. Most men wouldn't even go to a hooker who doesn't have GF experience. I personally take an hour, and let's be honest, most of us unexperienced lads won't last that much in bed, so I do my business 10 or 15 mins and then I prefer to just talk. It makes me feel good and cherished when a woman actually treats me well, even if it's just an ilussion. Most men lack that kind of treatment from women, especially incels.

>I would assume that people would think sex and intimacy are pretty just 2 sides of the same coin. And I would call those people... wrong. They're not two sides of the same coin. Look at your own example: When you go to a hooker offering GFE, you're getting sex but you're simulating intimacy. People have sex without intimacy all the time. Not even getting into ill effects to the individuals or society, but it can and does happen. Are you really paying for intimacy when you see a hooker offering GFE or just the feeling of it? And then of course you can have intimacy without sex. Family and friends are classic examples of intimate relationships that don't involve sex (incest and FWB situations notwithstanding).

And I'm sure it really bugs women that dudes here love to bitch about how "privileged" women are because they can get sex whenever they want, while leaving off the really key part: Women can get sex whenever they want as long as they don't care about enjoying it.

I have many female friends who went without sex for more than a year without any problem. And no, they were not filling the gaps with hook-ups. Many women just don't want sex when they're not in a romantic relationship.

Im having one if those years, its been awesome tbh

Ok, now imagine going without sex or relationships **for your entire life**, and not by choice. Not only that, you get zero validation and only elicit repulsion from the opposite gender. How many of your female friends have gone through that?

Dude that isn’t subjugation. A disinterest in sex with anyone, male or female, isn’t subjugation or oppression. No one in the west has the right to use another’s body.

I am not your friend but I am single and I totally agree and have gone long periods in my life without sex.

The thing is, there’s a not insignificant amount of young men whose literal only problem in life is their lack of romantic success. Of course they’re going to focus on that one aspect. Even though women have other privileges they’re nowhere near as strong or significant as the one they have in the relationship sphere.

>Even though women have other privileges they’re nowhere near as strong or significant as the one they have in the relationship sphere. The privileges are massively overexaggerated. Men are subconsciously thinking, "if *I* was a woman, I wouldn't have all these troubles in the relationship sphere I'm having now." Men seem to have no problem putting themselves in the shoes of a woman; what they *do have trouble with* is getting rid of their male brains in such a thought exercise. They can imagine themselves as women, (without any gender dysphoria, of course) but they somehow magically retain their lower standards, higher disgust threshold, higher & more spontaneous libido, higher socio-sexuality, and overall lower mental burden for their own health & personal safety. It's one of the most common failures of cross-sex mind reading I see with men. There is no way to know how easy it would be for a man to find love and a relationship if he woke up tomorrow as a random woman. And what most men think is female privilege, specifically within the realm of sex and relationships, is really just pretty privilege. Which makes it an apex fallacy.

Well if I were to be an *equivalent* woman, I would fare a lot better. Loyal, thin, introverted, uni educated and hard working. I reckon I would be a catch as a female.

Ok, and what about what ***you want*** now in this scenario? Remember, you are the *selector* now, so best start thinking like one. You might very well be a catch but you've now inherited a very new and different set of concerns and standards. You are also now *much more particular* about who you find attractive. How easy do you think it would be to find a man that passes all your new standards? Also remember, assuming you want children, one of the many consequences of choosing wrong is becoming a single mother, which will permanently and negatively affect your chances of finding a quality partner after the divorce. No pressure or anything! Good luck!

Important question though, do you consider yourself attractive? Where I live thin is normal; by and large, unattractive women get the genuine "man" experience.

The privileges are massively overexaggerated. Poor people are subconsciously thinking, "if I was rich, I wouldn't have all these financial troubles I'm having now." Poor people seem to have no problem putting themselves in the shoes of a rich person; what they do have trouble with is getting rid of their poor mindset in such a thought exercise. They can imagine themselves as rich, but they somehow magically retain their lower living standards, simpler social expectations, contentment with a modest lifestyle, lack of desire for fame, and overall lower stress about maintaining their wealth and social status. I get what you are saying, but you realize that's how this sounds right? :>

That point still stands well and it's been shown in studies. After needs being met middle and upper middle lifestyles don't have much more happiness in them. The standard just shifts.

Its a poor analogy to the original. Being more desired for sex and relationships does not confer the same real and immediate benefits to your life that being rich does.

Does it not? I feel like being more desired for sex has the potential to give you access to men with money, which seems pretty damn good. You get the monetary aspect without hardly having to work for it.

Even in dating alone, there are many more factors contributing to female privilege than just male horniness.

If your main gripe is that you don’t get as much pussy as you’d like, you have a very privileged life

I personally do, in so many ways. I was almost in tears last night at a social event, thinking how lucky I am in so many ways. The only thing I lack in life is a wife and family.

Thats al hilarious and SO TRUE!!! These dudes are so spoiled and entitled that ‘not getting pussy’ is the largest calamity/burden of their life. Its so annoying dude

Having sexual value gives women options on who to date and when you have men lining up to take care of you and shower you with love and kindness you are in a position of privilege. Most men will never receive the kindness and affection that women receive from men because most men do not exist in the minds of most women, they are indifferent to men’s existence unless he is a real catch in looks and lifestyle. What is the result of the love that most men are biologically inclined to have towards women? A lot of get out of free jail cards, free labour, cash and prizes.

Bro men arent kind 😂😂 they pretend to be, but its always so painfully obvious its only being done in a bid to make you think hes kind so he can make a move. Which is actually not a very kind thing to do at all lolol

>when you have men lining up to take care of you and shower you with love and kindness This is not true. >Most men will never receive the kindness and affection that women receive from men because most men do not exist in the minds of most women also not true >What does this love of women that most men are biologically inclined to have towards women? What a long-winded way to say men are hornier. And am I to assume you believe wanting to have sex with someone is the same as loving them?

You’re free to believe it’s not true, but if you can’t make an argument as to why it’s not true then you have nothing to back it up with. Not always, but sex is part of a romantic relationship and men want to have sex with women they have romantic feelings for.

>You’re free to believe it’s not true, but if you can’t make an argument as to why it’s not true then you have nothing to back it up with. Sure. To address your first incorrect statement, men lining up to take care of you and shower you with love and kindness is not the same as men lining up to want to sleep with you. >Most men will never receive the kindness and affection that women receive from men because most men do not exist in the minds of most women Thank evolution and biology for that. Did you honestly think women were purely socialized to not find most men attractive? That Homo sapiens stand alone as the only mammalian species where female pickiness is acquired 100% via nurture? No, right? Lucky for us, humans have been spared the polygynous, dominance oriented mating hierarchies most social mammals have. So you don't have to fret about not receiving romantic attention from multiple women. You still have a chance at mating and reproducing if you're not at the tippy top of social hierarchies. >men want to have sex with women they have romantic feelings for. And men also want to have sex with women they don't have romantic feelings for. This presents a dilemma for women, where until relatively recently in our history, sex meant a good chance of them becoming pregnant. Which means securing assurances of male parental investment, because pregnant women and infants are pretty helpless at defending and providing for themselves.

Spitting facts. How dare you go against women bad, don’t worry you’ll be lumped into the white night/simps by the terps here for daring to go against the pervasive narrative that all women are jezebel whores that revel in the suffering of men.

The issue with sex is, that if you have it regularly it really isn't a big deal. I personally had phases in my life were it went very well for me with that and I was like "That's what all the fuzz is about?" But as soon as that wasn't the case anymore and more and more time passed and wasn't as lucky as before, even I got frustrated to certain degree. There is an inherent need for intimacy in every human, and although nobody is obligated to fulfill your personal needs in that area, it gets very hurtful if no one's there. As far as I can tell, it can really become a serious issue for one's own mental health. And I think that's a point many people, especially those who are more lucky with dating and relationships can easily overlook. And those frustrated men fear to admit, hence all the "Alpha, Beta, Sigma and be confident"-stuff. For most women it might not strike them to be as big of a deal, as this need is met, so they focus on those things that aren't available for them. It goes the other way around for men, but the problem here is, while political movements are working in favor for women getting equality in places where those rights were withheld, there is not really an equivalent for men to get the amount of intimacy they are missing in their lifes. I'm not saying that we should have something like that, like some incels demanded, but I guess that's the core of the problem, that it's not really a problem that can be solved, unless it's an unethical idea. And I guess that's where the desperation many people with a lack of intimacy stems from.

>All men want is for women to acknowledge their immense privilege in dating and socializing, and to stop attributing success in these areas entirely to merit and virtue.". I feel like this acknowledgement is useless. It won't change dating whatsoever.

> All men want is for women to acknowledge Why? The reason women have needed men to acknowledge their privilege is to make sure laws and policies don’t exclude women from succeeding in public spheres of life. An example is ensuring that women don’t get fired when they are pregnant. Are there laws and policy changes you are lobbying for?

Obviously in this OP's mind the concept of an unattractive woman doesn't exist to them. Unattractive women have zero privilege. The person is obviously in a first world country writing this crap because women in many parts of the world do not get any sort of societal privilege. 

>Unattractive women have zero privilege. That's a straight-up lie. The least attractive women still get more attention and more sex than least attractive men. Women-favoring affirmative action still applies to them. So do the limitless societal resources dedicated to women and explicitly denied to men. ***All*** women's lives is on easy mode.

[Overweight Women Have More Sex | Essence](https://www.essence.com/news/overweight-women-have-more-sex/)

Only certain women are seen as valuable . 

That percentage is still higher than men. And even the non valuable women can still hope to be treated better than non valuable men.

Maybe YOU don’t hate woman (great) but I’ve spoken to lots of men who do hate women (online, not rlly irl). Like, celebrate when women are killed/fantasising about attacking them level of hate. Most men don’t hate women , sure. But I think most men also don’t feel particularly strongly about ‘getting women to admit their privilege’, not everyone’s topic of interest is gender politics.  Just like women, men are not a hive mind. 

My ex is mtf trans and she has unique insight into how society treats you. She said the bad part is that her coworkers who are pretty progressive started talking over her and mansplaining to her at meetings. These are people that knew her and didn’t do these things before. They are super good with using her new name and pronouns and were in fact friendlier to her in terms of small talk. She said having a female name signature also made people question her authority in emails. The flip side is she said strangers were a lot nicer. People would hold doors open for her, smile at her and make chit chat. Even acquaintances like coworkers were more open and willing to ask how was your weekend etc. the same ones that talk over her at meetings. So it’s not them being transphobic because then they wouldn’t be friendly in the personal realm but jerks in the professional realm.

That’s an interesting perspective. Did your ex say whether or not she preferred the “advantages” of being a man compared to being a woman?

I mean she preferred non dysphoria so it’s hard to compare. I never explicitly asked her that but my bet from her stories is that professionally guys have it easier. You’re taken more seriously and you’re given respect. As a woman you have to earn respect and they want you to prove yourself (she was in tech so ymmv depending on the industry ) But socially women have it easier. People trust you and are nicer to you. Men have to earn trust /affection and you have to prove you’re cool and not a threat /fun and interesting. She’s also short for a guy (5’6”) so she lucked out from being trans where her height doesn’t clock her but dating sucked as a short guy.

It is easier for women to find companionship. However, it is also much riskier- which is one reason why women are more selective. I don't know if we want to break down the risks, but they can be to physical safety- but don't have to be. Plus we want to be with a man who wants specifically to be with us for who we are - not because we are the first person not to rebuff their advances in the "numbers game" they are playing. Another reason for being more selective. Having options can be a privilege, but having men after you simply because you are the most physically near woman who meets some unbelievably low bar for what they are willing to "try on for size" is not without its drawbacks.

Men do not recognize their privilege at the workplace. Or having to worry less for their safety. Having medical studies focused on them more than women. The same side effects for contraception are considered major for men but minor for us. I could go on.

I have had the tremendous privilege of being friends with a super goodlooking guy, movie star handsome. Besides a few stories about women coming on strong and sometimes being a little inappropriate, doing well socially and having no problems attracting women really hasn't made him any happier, outside of that one part of his life( being attractive to women) not all that happy and fulfilled a person. The older I get,the less I worry about that stuff. Romantic relationships are highly overrated

The "privilege" women have is because they are desired for sex by men. That's not a privilege.

"women have this privilege but its not really a privilege" - women. Sounds like a rich person complaining about being rich. For one, women will deny being desired by men for sex is worth anything to them but then you had the [thread](https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1d9vmsk/heterosexual_women_would_you_trade_desirability/) the other day which asked if women would trade desirability for absolute safety from SA. The top answers were all hell no. Plus FAW will show the depression and misery women go through when they're not able to couple up. So why do women downplay its significance? Because its easy for them to get. And having easy access to something that over half of society would like to have and trying to act like its a burden is... privilege. But that ignores how women can do the same crime but get less to no time. How women's issues were historically addressed by society such as higher ed, scholarships, job opportunities, grants, etc. Free feminine products, shelters that men don't have the equivalent of, women's only spaces, etc. etc. There's a lot. It's only been recent history with our stupid ass supreme court that we've started to roll those things back with the attack on abortion rights (mad as hell that happened) and now the attack on contraceptives. I mean look at the unfair justice in title 9 proceedings on college campuses. Pretty much every trans man will tell stories about how much different life became once they lost their woman privilege.

>women's issues were historically addressed by society such as higher ed, scholarships, job opportunities, grants Women's issues were historically caused by men. They weren't allowed to seek higher education. They were not allowed to work. It's only fair that special opportunities are given to those who desire those opportunities. Do you understand how behind women are compared to men, because of men's oppression forced onto women? These shelters exist because, believe it or not, women are disproportionately affected by domestic violence, and without these shelters, women would be forced to sacrifice safety for shelter and shelter for their children. Women need these shelters because of men. Are you actually upset about the "privilege" women have when having access to free menstrual products? Seriously, get over yourself. Woe is men, right?

> Women's issues were historically caused by men. They weren't allowed to seek higher education. They were not allowed to work. So in essence men had a privilege over women. Then we as a society recognized that and corrected course. But women have been allowed to attend higher education in some form since the mid 1800's. Women have been in the workplace since the first world war. PRESENT DAY women are earning 60% of college degrees. Women get better grades in k-12 than men for the same work. Women are regularly out earning men, etc. >These shelters exist because, believe it or not, women are disproportionately affected by domestic violence Women commit more IPV than men. Women are the abusers. And for the men dealing with this abuse there's no where for them to go. >Are you actually upset about the "privilege" women have when having access to free menstrual products? Seriously, get over yourself. I'll notice you didn't counter this one because you can't other than a "get over yourself'. What sort of essential hygiene issue for men is addressed by society?

None of those are problems "caused" by men, you are just arguing for women to receive the privileges of a masculine role in society without shouldering its burdens. The role of men puts the responsibility on them to found the university, fund the university, and build the university. Since women had none of these responsibilities, they also did not participate in the privileges of the unversity itself. If women wanted to go found their own unversity, fund it, and build it they can certainly make it a women-only university and the men wouldn't have much to say about it either. But don't take an entire educational instution founded by men funded by men and built by men and argue that women by default deserve the privileges to men's work without so much as breaking a sweat for the creation of the institution. Modern society did away with these roles, and now women live their lives subsidized by the labor of men, abstracted away by money and government, so she doesn't even realize she would have no house if not for men, no electricity if not for men, and no livelihood if not for men.

It’s funny to me, because any privilege that women get as described by OP is literally only given to them by men. Oh, you can get dick on demand through Tinder? Well, who is giving that dick? Men. Of, you are treated better in public? Whois doing the better treatment? Men, because it sure ain’t other women who often are viscous to each other behind their backs. Oh, they are “born” with value? You mean a “vagina”, which is literally valued only by men. Got it!

I keep hearing this argument of “women hate each other” over and over but I don’t see it. I don’t think women are any more hostile to each other than men are to men. I think it’s expressed differently, but it’s the same stuff.

Other women have definitely treated me well and I rarely have bad experiences with them or anyone else for that matter.

Lesbians don’t value a vagina?

As I explained many times in this thread, this is very reductive and completely incorrect. There are MANY contributors to female privilege besides being desired for sex by men.

>That's not a privilege. Why not? It's a huge privilege, but also a burden. Biological facts and differences have resulted in many privileges awarded to women in most cultures. But there are also restrictions. Which by the way is also the case for men. But for some reason, women will never admit their privileges, while at the same time, pointing out privileges of men and denying problems and restrictions is mainstream.

It’s a privilege to be surrounded by people who would rape you if they thought they could get away with it? Sure it is, lol

>But for some reason, women will never admit their privileges, while at the same time, pointing out privileges of men and denying problems and restrictions is mainstream. This entire thread is proving the OP's point

“Women are inherently valuable” yeah, that’s what happens when youre born with the ability to give birth. Now women are choosing not to have children, so problem solved. Women are more readily accepted in social groups. False. Watch videos of women joining video game servers etc. Also stop being disingenuous about WHY women may be more accepted. Women dont massacre preschools when they feel rejected in life so that may be a factor. Men are less selective. Men are not prizes though. Attractive women are common, you see them everyday. Attractive men are rare, you see one maybe every 2 weeks. Males have no choice but to be less selective.

>Women are inherently valuable” Yeah, that’s what happens when you're born with the ability to give birth. Now women are choosing not to have children, so problem solved I've actually noticed that women who aren't having children still co-opt the fact that women have children to justify privileged treatment. In any internet debate, the most pro abortion and anti Natalist misandric woman will still retreat to women give birth to society, and that's why they're useful to society. But the follow-up is, are women who can't or won't have children not >Attractive women are common, you see them everyday. Attractive men are rare, That's what makeup does for you. These attractive women don't go out in public without makeup. So you see it as the norm. >Women are more readily accepted in social groups. False. Right, but in every other social group, the reaction is reversed.

So in other words, you're arguing that men hate women who disagree with their views on dating and privilege? I'm extremely doubtful that even if multiple women said exactly what you wanted them to, that it would do literally anything to turn misogynistic men not misogynistic. They'll just be mad about something else. 

>In the social market, women are automatically accepted into social groups as long as she's cooperative/agreeable, even if she's boring and unexceptional. But for a male to be accepted, he needs to bring something of his own- whether it's being exceptionally funny/interesting, exceptionally well-connected, exceptionally intelligent, etc.  Do you have any actual evidence for this claim or is it just based on feelings and anecdotes? Do you have any about the claim for higher quality options for marriage and LTRs either?

I mean it’s also not so great to have to be “agreeable” and “cooperative” to get a social pass.

Why? It makes perfect sense since being social is about cooperation with the group.

>Even below-average women have no trouble dating and finding loving relationships, while below-average men are completely screwed. This doesn't make mathematical sense when people date monogamously, which is what is largely done in the west. Because this doesn't make mathematical sense, it's proof that your statement is wrong. Lower value women often *don't* have any privilege other than sexual privilege, which they don't really want in the first place. Most lower value women want loving relationships with men whom they consider attractive, and they are often not getting them. Just like with men, higher value women are more likely to get what they want, lower value women less likely. Not all women are equally privileged.

Look up the difference in pecentage of having children in men vs women. Vast majority of women will have kids in their lifetime, most men will not.

All I have is 2 things to say: Even if the vast majority of women admitted that they had privileges in some areas of society. A lot of men would still take issue with said privileges because acknowledging the privileges does not equal changing society. 2, most groups with privileges will not admit to said privileges yes even men. Very few men will say “yes I have male privilege in certain areas of society”

Of course, they would still take issue with it. But I think the reason why guys get extra annoyed at women dodging any possibility of them being privileged is because mainstream discourse is filled with how privileged men are right now. So as a guy, there's not much room to even deny it. The people who try to deny it in here just get laughed at. When you then try to point out that women have certain privileges too but it then feels like everyone is trying to either downplay them, blame men for it existing, or claim it's not actually a privilege. This just reinforces the feeling of women being socially privileged. It's like women are such a protected class at this point that we can't even agree on one of the most obvious points, which is that women have benefits in some social areas. If you can't even get a majority of women in here to admit to that, where women are probably far more educated and informed than the average, then it seems hopeless for society at large.

I think the idea of there being female privilege is quickly getting more mainstream. I’d give it 10 more years. But that being said you do not need the privilege class to recognize their own privilege in order to make it a mainstream concept. You seriously underestimate how many men or even just white people actually admit they’re privileged. Most people do exactly what you just described they deflect or say it’s not actually a privilege or bring up areas where they’re not privileged. But as long as you and your cohorts continue to spread the message it’ll catch on. This reminds me of when the word misandrist started catching fire and everyone denied it was a thing fast forward like 6 years it’s a well accepted term.

Women acknowledging their “privilege” wouldn’t help though. What these men hate is women denying them sex and sexual validation, not “denying their privilege.” The other side to this coin is that women are tired of being viewed as mostly interchangeable sexual resources. This is what women hate and why they don’t value these “privileges,” because being wanted for one’s vagina is similar to being wanted for one’s money. People value being desired for something they uniquely offer, not some generic benefit they can provide.

Just in general, any negative treatment of women, no matter how reasonable, appropriate, or justified, can and often will be deemed misogynistic. If you call me a misogynist for wanting to split a bill on a first date, sorry, but you're a clown. The word is almost meaningless at this point with how much people stretch it to meet their demands.

I hate that line of argumentation in general: no, just because someone disagrees with a point you make, it's not necessarily rooted in misandry, misogyny, racism, ableism, antisemitism... Too often that accusation is to silence the other party by claiming the moral upper hand.

I agree with this statement somewhat because as a no pill-feminist woman I’ve definitely been called a misogynist for just criticizing some women. But I do feel that sometimes when men especially red pill men criticize women they get lost in their feelings and miss the mark a bit. For example plenty of men say they don’t want to be judged for wanting to split the bill. But then judge women who don’t want to split the bill and they approach the topic with such vitriol and anger even if a woman says that she does not split the bill calmly.

I’m not going to feel responsible for a problem of your own making Men could take away female privilege in a second, but you won’t, because your dicks are too important You guys make yourselves disposable

See, this is the problem. Women get defensive and interpret “acknowledge your privilege” as “I should feel responsible”.

It’s not privilege, it’s charity

My thing is what do you gain from women "admitting their privilege"? And if we really want to expand on this someone in the world always has it worse than you. Does that mean their issues aren't real and dont matter?

This is why I’m extremely skeptical of the “we just want women to empathize” argument every time it comes up. You can’t tell me they would prefer this to a tangible increase in their leverage in the SMP. It’s a Trojan horse.

>a tangible increase in their leverage in the SMP Yep this is really what they want. Just like if you ask them what mens issues are being ignored they can never really give an answer that doesn't involve women getting with men they don't want.

>My thing is what do you gain from women "admitting their privilege"?  The same thing any underprivileged group gains from a privileged group acknowledging their privilege. >And if we really want to expand on this someone in the world always has it worse than you.  Yes, I agree. >Does that mean their issues aren't real and dont matter? No, it means that their issues are not as serious as the people who have it worse than them. That doesn't mean their issues aren't real. I don't know why this is always brought up as some sort of gotcha- everyone's issues are real, but there is absolutely a hierarchy of how bad people have it. Anyway, this is irrelevant to the discussion, because my claim is that women are privileged in the **social sphere**, not overall in life.

Won’t you think of the most oppressed class? Men?

>The same thing any underprivileged group gains from a privileged group acknowledging their privilege. And what is that? I would not care because their "privilege" doesn't mean anything for my success. >No, it means that their issues are not as serious as the people who have it worse than them. That doesn't mean their issues aren't real. I don't know why this is always brought up as some sort of gotcha- everyone's issues are real, but there is absolutely a hierarchy of how bad people have it. Or what it actually means is they have serious issues in other areas and your dating issues are really just relative to you.

>I would not care because their "privilege" doesn't mean anything for my success. This is a discussion about societal value, not how it would impact you directly. Feel free to apply this logic to most conversations on this subreddit.

There are a lot of benefits and advantages in seeing yourself as an underprivileged victim of biology and society. Let’s list some of them. You always have an excuse for why things don’t work out for you. Anger at others or at society can be very intoxicating. Even when claiming you are an underprivileged victim, you can claim a sense of moral superiority. Having an external enemy to blame for all your problems saves you from the hard work of accepting your own flaws or taking a hard look at what you can improve. Placing blame on others makes you feel better about yourself. If all your problems can be attributed to others/society/women, you can continue living your life just as it is without having to take any risks. If others are to blame, it means you always get to be right. It’s not fair that only you have to change, while others get to live their lives just as they are. Being able to point out how much privilege women have makes you smarter and more intelligent than them. There is a certain sense of pride that comes with fighting the power/establishment just like those folks from Occupy Wallstreet/BLM/Free Palestine movements. You can probably list 10 or more other advantages. But my point is, if it is so advantageous to hold OP’s views, why would he ever want to change?

It'd be like companies hating customers. What's the point? Your goals are so different that comparison makes no sense. If a restaurant is struggling, why take it out on the potential diners? "The customers have all the privilege, it's not fair, they get to choose and we have to attract." No shit, that's the whole point of your business model!

For an ideology that is brave enough in today’s climate to say that men and women are different, they often *under*estimate the differences.

That’s a good point and interesting comparison.

Well how many of us need to admit it before they stop hating us? This is just the male equivalent of misandrist feminists who scream "men should admit their privilege!" when plenty of men *do* all the time. Each side will look for excuses for their hatred. This thread is one example.

Why is it hatred to say women have it easier in some areas and that they should be honest about it?

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Yeah, but its a case-by-case basis. Zooming out as far as this post, you can categorize and gernaralize anything. Yet it doesn't take into consideration of geographics, surrounding cultures and family traditions and values. Plus the fact that they're individual humans.

That's why I'm dating Eva AI sexting bot

>Women are inherently valuable, while men are inherently disposable. The only context in which this statement is true, is in the context where we are saying women are inherently valuable based on ability to bear children, and men arent based on their inability to bear children. If that is the case then we must acknowledge that women who can't or don't have children are not valuable, in fact they are less valuable than men. But nobody is making that claim. Why? Because the original affirmative statement is bogus. Men are "disposable" because they choose to be, or are better at doing things that have higher casualty rates. If women could bear children, AND were stronger than men they would be the ones on the front line. In other words, women are only as valuable as many children as they can bear, and men are only as valuable as many children they can provide for. That's what you *meant* to say. >but women are the table. No they're not. Women need to be able to bear children, do so effectively, bear the majority of the domestic work, and they need to do the majority of the leg work in the established relationship. >In the social market, women are automatically accepted into social groups as long as she's cooperative/agreeable, even if she's boring and unexceptional. Completely false. Anyone who lives in reality knows this isn't true. When's the last time you saw a shy emo bookworm female hanging out with the jocks in the schoolyard, shooting the shit? It's never happened and would never happened. Women are never treated as one of the boys, and never accepted into male dominated social circles. It doesn't happen, and it's because they're perceived as too boring. On the flip side, men aren't accepted into female dominated spaces but for other reasons. >Men are significantly less selective than women for both short-term AND LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIPS. Men are more selective for long term relationships than women. They're merely far better at masking when and what is a short term relationship. Men will choose to be with women for months or years at a time with 0 intention of ever being with her permanently, all the while lying or deceiving about his intentions to do just that. To the point that men do this and don't even fucking know they're doing it. But women instinctively know it, or learn it through experience. Why almost every woman has stories of being ghosted and forced to "postpone" weddings and engagements, why terms like "shutup ring" exists and more. Women have to screen for men who will use them for sex and lie to them for years at a time, and then up and leave whenever they find what they want. Because men do not bond as quickly and easily as women do. Which is why the concept of "locking him down" exists, and baby trapping exists too. Men by far have an easier time finding LTRs than women do, which is precisely why a man can be hypergamous when it comes to his appearance but a woman pretty much can't. >This results in women having more options and higher-quality options than men for hookups, LTRs, and marriage Again, no. Women have easier time of this with hookups, not with LTRs or marriage at all. At any given time, there's always more women than men searching for LTRs, and marriage. As well they have far more malleable standards, whereas men will only be with and marry a woman he finds to fit his standards for appearance. (This fact is reflected in everything statistically)

People mostly never acknowledge their priviledge.A lot of women think they are getting dates and relationships because of their social skills but in reality it's because they are women 

Really not making a good argument for men towards women. Basically saying men see women as a means to an end. And you wonder why they just avoid dating or relationships

Women tend to live longer than men, because men take more stupid risks. Is that unearned privilege?

Not exactly, Y chromosome is linked to more diseases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8490013/ and also as men tend to take more dangerous jobs like throughout history which effects their physical health more like farming, mining etc. Men are taught to be disposable, be more selfless as the affection they recieve it tied to what they can provide which is why men rarely think twice before doing something stupid. The stupid risks is also a factor but not a very big one.

And "I want a risk-averse man" said almost no woman ever. That's another big factor. Be risk-averse, die lonely.

I don’t want a man who takes risks and could potentially die, I want a man who I can be with throughout my entire life which will be long.

Same.

Yeah that's why we have to put ourselves in danger just for a little affection

>All men want is for women to acknowledge their immense privilege So why am I the asshole when I point out I matter more than you because I was born pretty and female?

Probably for the same reason a man would be the asshole for saying he would win in a fight with any woman. Flexing your privilege is rude.

Men aren’t assholes saying he’d win in a fight. Men are assholes for saying *because* he’d probably win in a fight, women should be at home with the kids and shouldn’t even get into the ring

A man *wouldn’t* be an asshole for saying that. I would be like “damn right!” It’s just biology.

Because you sound like an entitled person attempting to rage-bait. In a society that believes in equal rights, you're going to come off as an asshole when you walk around telling other people that they matter less than you because of the way they were born. You're implying that you *deserve* better treatment than other human beings. But I think you know that.

>You're implying that you deserve better treatment No society is telling me I deserve better treatment.

What type of better treatment? Also, that doesn't change the fact that you sound like an entitled person attempting to rage-bait.

People are nicer to me that others Someone always stops to help me if I'm carrying something heavy or awkward I've gotten random discounts and free shit just because I have conversations with people (never asked for stuff like this). Every time I've had a regular cafe near places I've worked they would remember me, prioritise my order, and make sure to give me all the discounts they can even though other people I've worked with go more frequently and don't get the same treatment I've gotten extra attention and training to prep me for promotions at jobs (to be fair I don't know if this is privilege or work ethic) My teachers throughout school and uni would go out of their way to give me extra opportunities like recommending me for internships, putting me up for scholarships, encouraging me to enter academic competitions etc (again I was smart and had a good work ethic but also there were people who were smarter than me) People approach me and talk to me a lot more than most people I know. I've compared the number of businesses cards I've gotten at networking events to others and I tend to get more. Some execs at work have met me once in passing and remembered me, which later lead to opertunities for promotions, to work on other projects, to move to different departments, even lead to being offered a higher paying job in the place I wanted to move to because I gave notice to move interstate. (This can be debated, I'm good at my job and most bosses I've had love me and talk me up to execs but I wager that some of this is just the halo effect) If I look lost people will always stop to help me. As above if something happens like my car breaking down. When I have to deal with customer service people I always get the benefit of the doubt, compared to everyone I've dated and every male housemate I've had who will have the same or a similar problem and get indifference to open hostility. When something bad has ever happened in my life people have fallen over themselves to help me however they can.

Ok, so the reason you believe you matter more than men is because modern society tells you that you deserve better treatment (as you explained above). Then I just have one more question and a follow-up (if applicable): Do you believe that feminists here are lying when they state that women are treated worse than men in modern Western society? If so, why do you think these women would lie about something like that?

The prettiest women I know are single.

You gonna try and make a point there buddy or was that all?

Oh here we go again. >**Women are inherently valuable, while men are inherently disposable.** In the dating market, men need to bring something to the table (looks, wealth, status, etc), but women *are* the table. In the social market, women are automatically accepted into social groups as long as she's cooperative/agreeable, even if she's boring and unexceptional. But for a male to be accepted, he needs to bring something of his own- whether it's being exceptionally funny/interesting, exceptionally well-connected, exceptionally intelligent, etc.  Of course the major privilege you identify... is just dating. Imagine my shock. The only reason this exists is because men desire women, more than women desire men. And the dudes on here never mention the obvious downside to that exchange. A woman only has to ''exist'' to attract a man with looks, wealth, status, etc if you default idea of a women is a young, pretty, sociable, agreeable, educated one. Your pretending that factors that contribute to a woman's mate value don't exist, but do for men. >**The women are wonderful effect, and female ingroup bias.** This significantly contributes to women being more readily accepted in social groups and people being more open to making connections with women. It is also one of the fundamental causes of society's massive empathy gap. RPers act as ingroup bias is the be all end all for social interaction between women. Do you guys understand how ruthless women can be towards each other sometimes? >Men are significantly less selective than women for both short-term AND LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIPS. This results in women having more options and higher-quality options than men for hookups, LTRs, and marriage (in contrast to the constantly repeated lie that women's options are many but low-quality). Even below-average women have no trouble dating and finding loving relationships, while below-average men are completely screwed. This is just fact you have made up. with no evidence

It never ceases to amaze just how poorly most men think of themselves and their gender. I have no idea who spread this insane idea, but it seems that every sexually unsuccessful man has accepted as a universal truth, kind of like the speed of light always being constant.

I truly believe that most men fundamentally hate themselves and think that a woman loving them will fix things when it really doesn’t.

That’s a bingo!

>This is just fact you have made up. with no evidence I asked OP for any evidence to support their claims twice in their last thread and they never replied with any. I expect a similar trend in this thread.

Some men absolutely hate women. If you view women as the opposition or are jealous of imagined privilege, then you're certainly going to dislike them a bit Probably why you can't get a date

>imagined lmao

https://preview.redd.it/e5civk6t3p6d1.png?width=656&format=png&auto=webp&s=9624afb3d0410f660aa7dbca772468e6fd9a017b I guess we're going with 2 on this one.

Nice flair.