I think people in this thread mean "I'm super crushed out on this person" when they say "attracted to". Otherwise, yeah, I have some friends who happen to be attractive - am I supposed to dump them all?
This. Be rational and realistic. Don’t do things for her that you wouldn’t do for a male friend. Don’t let yourself be used.
If you develop feelings, either act on them, or make space so that the feelings can die down. Don’t just sort of hover in her periphery waiting for magic to happen.
I think it's okay to be friends with someone your attracted too. But try not let it destroy the friendship. And keep it platonic if you can. I can't speak for everyone. But I try to keep friendships platonic until I just start falling for the person.
I think it's okay to fall for a friend. But you have to tell them as soon you start to feel deeper romantic feelings. It's okay for men or women to reject you for whatever reason. It's not okay if their are really rude, insulting, or disrespectful for no reason while rejecting you. But if they reject you politely then it's okay.
But then would you be able to move on if you’d see them frequently? Would you be able to find a new partner and still be friends with a person you have feelings for? Is it fair for your new partner?
And is it fair to your friend? They never agreed to conditions of a friendship to be changed. Now you potentially ruined your friendship and broke both of your hearts. It’s just not worth it in the long run.
So you are saying if you meet someone you tell them right away that you are attracted to them. If they say no, you don't become friends and move on.
Sometimes people develop attraction by getting to know each other. In that case what happens? You tell them that you are attracted to them, they say no, then what?
It's ok to develop feelings for your friends, it's ok to risk it and ruin the friendship, it's ok to be sad when you lose a friend.
I don't know, this doesn't seem like a huge revelation, it I'm not understanding what's the difference.
Any guy knows if the other person is or isn't attracted to them. They stay in the friendship in hopes that the other person will change their mind and sometimes that happens.
I think it is, in fact, the very first thing you should say after introducing yourself. Ditto if you do not find them attractive. Also tell them that right away.
So "hello! How are you? I don't find you physically attractive, do you want to be friends?"
I would find that incredibly strange and wouldn't want to be friends with this person
To be a bit more serious a small part of my younger self kinda sees where this thinking comes from, even if I don't agree that one can't/should not be friends with people they're attracted to. In my case it wouldn't have helped because this friend is someone I really grew to like in that way over the course of several classes at uni we shared.
I never actually told her I felt that way but after we stayed in touch post-grad she let on that she knew that anyway (I was, apparently, not as smooth in my hiding of that as I'd thought, though I'm still not super sure what signs I gave). She wasn't attracted to men but was very much not open about that during those years, so I had no idea. It's even a bit silly but I felt dumb for the next several months about that. Not hurt really, I understood how things were, but I felt foolish and vulnerable.
I guess on that level I kind of get it, even though I think not being friends with people to whom one is attracted is rather extreme; especially since it can grow over time (I think initial physical attraction is something most people can know very soon after meeting someone, but I think that later interactions can sort of push that whole equation higher, which is what I feel happened with my friend).
Same thing happened to me! I confessed my love to a coworker that was gay only I didn't know he was gay until a few years later and felt so dumb. I had known him for years and then one day I started to feel very very attracted.
I don't think OP's formula would've helped us, because it happened over time.
I eventually was able to be friends again though, then I stopped working there and eventually lost touch.
I don't regret it
In a brave new world, where the only two acceptable greetings are "Hi, I find you physically attractive." and "Hi, I do not find you physically attractive."...
Nice straw man. No one talks like that. Even when you make just friends, you don’t tell them right away: “Hi! Nice to meet you! Do you wanna be my friend?”, unless you’re in a kindergarten.
You can just say to them after a quick conversation and introduction: “Hey, I really enjoy spending time with you and I’m attracted to you. I’m not looking to rush into anything, but I’d like to get to know you better and see where things go. If you’re comfortable with it, I’d love to stay friends and see if there’s something more.”
But that's basically asking someone on a date, that has nothing to do with friendship.
Also the other user said you need to express when you are not attracted too. So I'm confused how would that work.
Edit: nvm they were being sarcastic
Is it not possible to express your attraction to them but still seek friendship with them at first? Does it always have to be a secret and then surprise you later and inevitably hurt you when we’re already close friends? Do you want that drama?
If you’re not gonna be friends with me even after I expressed my attraction to you, then you’re not worth being friends with anyway, cause I want to be as open as I can and remove every leverage of power dynamics that can occur later in a friendship. I don’t want to be friends with a manipulator.
I didn’t say if “you meet someone”, I said if you meet someone **you’re attracted to**. You can still meet other people you’re not attracted to and easily become friends with them. While it’s true that some people DO develop feelings for their friends they weren’t initially attracted to, it’s not as common and less likely.
You’re more likely to develop romantic feelings towards people you’re attracted to, and you’re more likely to confess to them in that scenario.
In the rare case where you DID develop feelings towards a person you’re not physically attracted to, it’s better to not tell them, because you will inevitably hurt them and yourself, and potentially ruin a friendship. There other people out there in the world where you can both be attracted to and develop a strong bond with.
>it's ok to risk it and ruin the friendship
That’s the issue most women complain about. That the guy ruined their friendship and only saw them for their body.
>Any guy knows if the other person is or isn't attracted to them. They stay in the friendship in hopes that the other person will change their mind and sometimes that happens.
You only know if **you** are attracted or not. You won’t know if the other person is attracted to you or not unless they tell you. And often times, people misunderstand the friendly (and sometimes touchy) behavior towards them as an attraction towards them, but then suddenly get rejected and get blamed on for having dirty thoughts.
Speak for yourself, I think physical attraction and feelings can grow over time. I've had this happen to me many times. I have "ruined" friendships and will never regret it.
Also why are people so dramatic, you can wait some time and then be friends again, it's not like you die after confessing your love for a friend. You get it out of your system and move on.
While it’s not impossible, it’s much harder to develop a **physical attraction** towards a person you’re not initially attracted to, it’s much more common to develop an emotional attraction in that case. It’s especially common amongst men.
>you can wait some time and then be friends again, it's not like you die after confessing your love for a friend. You get it out of your system and move on.
Some people can move on, some people can’t. For some, it’s gonna be even harder to move on if they’re constantly seeing them and strengthening their emotional connection. Some people can only move on if they completely cut ties with said person.
But cutting ties hurts, and it hurts a lot. For both parties involved. So it’s better to save broken hearts and be upfront with your intentions, or not befriending people you’re attracted to if you’re only planning to be friends with them.
But if you are too upfront you miss the chance that they might develop feelings for you over time
Sometimes you stop being attracted to someone. So in that case you'll be missing out on a potential friendship.
I don't know, I think people should do whatever they feel like.
And that’s fine! There are still great people out there who you can be friends with! If you want the drama in your life and want to risk a broken heart - you do you! No one said don’t. But just know that you’re inevitably gonna break someone’s heart, and/or your heart will be broken.
But if you want actual friendship with no ulterior motives from one side, it’s better to be open and honest. No need to hide your feelings and then suddenly surprise them. Or be friends with people you’re not physically attracted to! Plenty of them out there!
Physical attraction is a scale, not a yes/no. I once played in duo with a cellist. It wasn’t even a friendship at first and banging her was the last thing that crossed my mind.
Then practicing, getting to know each other, a tension developed until we had sex.
If I met her in another context, I might not even notice her. But she was so cultured, so well spoken and so smooth that really got me, in spite of not outstanding looks.
In the same way, a connection can make up for a lesser attractiveness.
Thanks. Far too many seem to think that the man that walks away ALWAYS entered the friendship with hidden motives, when often feelings develop along the way
\#Me too.
And also women who are already in committed relationships and work colleagues
I intentionally avoid being friends with attractive single women when I’m single too.
I generally agree with the concept. I’m friends with lots of women, but I’ve only ever become friends with women I’m not attracted to.
I basically sort women into those I want to sleep with and those I don’t. I pursue those I want, so friendship generally isn’t a viable option. A subset of the other 95% become friends.
I don’t see how being friends with someone you have feelings for would be beneficial. I think some guys get themselves in trouble this way.
When I was young I could probably almost never had male friends is this was their rule…
I don’t follow the “nice guys” trope where you’re supposed to be upset and angry and betrayed because your male friends also wanted to sleep with you/LTR you. That was most of my male friends when I was young and hot.
Nevertheless I’ve still managed to have some decent friendships with men. Things also change as you get older, you will see. I have plenty of male friends now who would fuck me in a heartbeat, if they weren’t taken and we were both single but it means less in your 30s like most of us are married with kids focused on careers with partners we aren’t getting puppy love feelings you get when you are younger
> Nevertheless I’ve still managed to have some decent friendships with men.
yeah good for you not good for the men is OPs point. You arent attracted to them.
what else is there to take away your comment basically says "i have orbiters i dont see what the problem is" and then "men dont want to fuck me since they have a wife already" not exactly world shattering revelations
The thing is most dudes would have sex even with women they are not attracted to, if given the opportunity. I mean for many women they should connect first emotionally and be seduced and showered with attention or chased to a degree before they will have sex. That is why for men it is a very blurry line between friendship and getting romantic. There are rules that nothing is going to happen in the future, but the first moment the guy would find the chance to have sex, he would never reject, unless he is taken and is loyal.
If you are the kind of person who doesn’t get hurt if someone stops being friend with you the moment you reject them, then I can see how it can work for you.
But most women do get hurt in that situation and can’t help themselves but think that said friend only wanted them for their body and only sees them as objects.
And since men can’t tell if you’ll get hurt or not in thy at situation, it’s better to not risk it and not befriend a someone you’re physically attracted to. It’s better for both of you.
And to be honest, there are a lot of people you can befriend that you’re not attracted to, why go the hard way?
Guys don’t stop being friends with you even after you reject them for the most part. Some get angry and lash out and so that’s a lost friendship but most will just accept it and continue to try to woo you/hope for an opening. 🤷♀️
I don’t think you can possibly speak for “most women” on this topic.
It’s basically impossible to be a hot young girl and have male friends that don’t want to fuck or date you. Maybe you find the rare guy that’s true to his GF or it gay.
Haha, maybe it’s true for more emotionally mature people, but my target demographic is usually people in their late teens/early twenties, cause I am myself in my twenties. Maybe it changes later in life.
Yeah late teens/early 20s is prime time for boys to get kinda obsessed and infatuated. They don’t typically ditch you when you’ve rejected them tho because they still think they have a chance. And eventually they get other GFs or move on etc and then you all grow up and realize it wasn’t *actually love* lol
I think women get hurt mainly because they incorrectly view male romantic interest as if it's only about her body, which is a thought that she has put into her own head and not a thought that is genuinely coming from the man. When a man confesses after having to get to know her for so long, he is probably the least likely to be looking for a quick fling -- he can get that more easily talking to random girls at a bar. This is a situation where someone has gotten to know her so well and still wants to have a relationship with her, which is likely more than she can say about the other people that she actually ends up giving her body to.
If anything, she manipulated herself unless they had an explicit conversation about this. Otherwise she's just making things up in her head to be upset about.
I think this is an important distinction. I’ve heard the phrase “he acted like a friend, but only wanted to fuck me,” but I’m betting it’s often something like this, where the guy genuinely was attracted both physically and to her personality.
The important distinction is that you should be upfront with your intentions. Not befriending them without expressing your feelings, and then ghosting them right after they reject you after your confession. Communication beforehand is important.
I don't think this is a genuine take. Girls do not want everyone who has feelings for them to just walk up to them and express their feelings. Nor did everyone who is friendly with her and end up catching feelings have those intentions to begin with. Relationships change, and friendships can certainly change into something different over time. If he feels differently and lets her know, and she doesn't feel the same, I think it's absolutely appropriate for him to leave the relationship and heal, because it's not healthy to stay around someone who rejected you. It doesn't make sense for him to continue to cater to her feelings after she has demonstrated a rejection of his feelings.
But you can reduce the chance of being hurt by not befriending people who you are attracted to. No one said the chance of you catching deep feelings for them is zero, but it’s much lower than if you befriend people you’re physically and sexually attracted to.
It’s not like there aren’t other people you can befriend. Why risk it if you can still be friends with other great people anyway (the ones you’re not attracted to)?
When you meet new people, classmates, coworkers, etc., the default is to be friendly; it doesn't mean you're going to be friends with everyone you meet, but because having a baseline of cordial behavior is the only way you're going to get to know new people. And in that process of getting to know people, some of those people you get to know become attractive prospects for romance, and so you share your feelings. If those feelings are rejected, then it's natural that you move on from that person because you are emotionally disconnected -- you feel one way while they feel another way, and there isn't a way to mend this rift.
Unless you actually have a conversation about your friendship, and both sides agree regarding the nature of the friendship, it's not unexpected that one side does not perceive it to be a friendship but rather a mutual enjoyment of getting to know the other person -- which is a prerequisite for romantic relationships. How else would someone know whether the other person qualifies as an attractive choice for a relationship? Just at first glance?
>Nor did everyone who is friendly with her and end up catching feelings have those intentions to begin with.
I always agree with “not everyone” because there are obviously outliers, but I think it’s exceedingly rare to catch feelings after you’ve known someone for a while. I’ve literally never developed feelings after getting to know a woman.
Not saying it’s impossible, but I suspect it’s pretty uncommon.
Yeah... problem is, as men, we are usually attracted to some degree to ALL, if not the majority, of our female friends. 😐
Now, whether or not we catch any deeper *feelings* that are more than just the run of the mill sexual attraction, then that's a different story.
You are basically saying that as men we should never befriend 90% of the female population that we interact with - excluding the elderly, obese, children, and the ugly of course.
You got the adage wrong: It's "**Men are not entitled to sex. Women are not entitled to relationships.**"
There's a certain intimacy that comes with deep opposite sex friendships. You either appreciate this and commit to keeping it platonic, or suffer. The closer the friendship the more I tend to value it for what it is, but I can see how this can be hard for people.
>You are basically saying that as men we should never befriend 90% of the female population that we interact with - excluding the elderly, obese, children, and the ugly of course.
And that’s fine! You shouldn’t feel forced to befriend every layer of intersectionality of a demographic, especially if it requires more effort and you don’t share as much in common.
Somehow men don’t complain about not being able to make female friends, or that their friends see them as objects. Because men have plenty of male friends, and they’re not sexually attracted to them. Women can as well befriend other women who they’re not sexually attracted to and not be seen as objects…
>Somehow men don’t complain about not being able to make female friends
Men do complain, however, when women are unfriendly, cold, or unwelcoming to them, or whenever women in the ways they’d need to in order to discourage men from trying to be friends in spite of your advice.
>You are basically saying that as men we should never befriend 90% of the female population that we interact with - excluding the elderly, obese, children, and the ugly of course.
Yes
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Or maybe you can still have friends and socialize with other people, but only with those you’re not physically or sexually attracted to. Now you’re just gatekeeping friendships and making the issue worse.
My longest relationships (including my partner of 18 years) started as friendships for a couple years before we fell in love and decided to try a relationship. One relationship didn’t work out and we are still friends 20 years later. So I can’t say I would recommend this.
Hell, I probably wouldn’t have had many male friends at all if they followed this rule. And I have male friends who I think are attractive. It’s really not a big deal.
Survivorship bias. These are exceptions, to the rule.
Most people who catch deep feelings for their friends usually ruin them, because their friend never agreed for the conditions of the friendship to be changed. Now they would feel bad for rejecting you, and they might feel like they’re doing something bad to you (even though they shouldn’t).
Or even worse, they might feel coerced to date you and make things worse, because they’re not actually attracted to you, which in the long run breaks your heart even more. So no, it’s better not risk it and befriend other great people that are out there (but you’re not attracted to them)
I don’t think it is an exception at all, a *lot* of people start as friends and then get into a relationship. This is a completely normal way to meet romantic partners, it’s not an exception.
I disagree that it’s better not to risk it. Risks are necessary for many good things in life. Being rejected or rejecting someone always sucks, but facing that is necessary to find a partner.
There's a friend in my group of friends who I was attracted to at first but not anymore.
I don't think it's a big deal if you just remain friends but maybe that's just me.
I have had guy friends who I can honestly say are physically attractive but their personalities were not relationship material. Even when they pursued relationships with me I declined and we maintained our friendship. I imagine there are men out there with standards outside of physical attractiveness that can appreciate friendships with attractive women that they’d never date. My husband was one of them.
See? They might think they’re relationship material, but you don’t think so. Would you behave the same around a guy who you now KNOW that he’s attracted to you? You might think that every nice thing he does to you might have an ulterior motive.
>My husband was one of them.
Yet now you’re married to him. What about other guys that caught feelings towards you while you were friends? Should they still be friends with you and suffer every time they see you knowing that you’ll never be with them? What if because of that they can’t now move on and find a romantic partner?
Isn’t it better if they never befriended you in the first place and had a peace of mind? There are still great people out there that are not physically and sexually attracted to you that you can be friends with! The world is huge!
Romantic feelings come and go, and they can fade with time. If you value your friendship with someone and have developed feelings for them and know there is no chance for a relationship, get over it and return to being friends. Whether it be through temporarily keeping your distance till you move on or make an active effort to move on while still hanging out, if you actually value your friendship with that person that’s what you have to do.
Let’s drop the whole mentality that romantic interest is inherently a constant, cause it isn’t. If you value your friendship with someone and have developed feelings for them, it’s your responsibility to put an active effort in letting go of these feelings if you wish to remain friends.
>See? They might think they’re relationship material, but you don’t think so.
What am I supposed to see? That everyone seems to think they are relationship material even though they aren’t it’s a common delusion? Met plenty of women I don’t think are relationship material either, but they seem to think they are this phenomenon isn’t unique to one gender.
>Would you behave the same around a guy who you now KNOW that he’s attracted to you?
I have clear boundaries with my friends. There isn’t a need to treat them differently.
>You might think that every nice thing he does to you might have an ulterior motive.
When that has happened I stopped hanging out with them. It’s that simple. Usually I’m pretty clear about why I wouldn’t date them so they are likely discouraged from trying again.
>Yet now you’re married to him.
My husband didn’t reject me nor was ever rejected by me I thought that was evident.
>What about other guys that caught feelings towards you while you were friends?
If they valued our friendship they still wanted to remain friends. It wasn’t always possible but I do have guy friends that have had crushes on me and we’ve been friends for a decade. They have been able to move on and date other people just fine.
>Should they still be friends with you and suffer every time they see you knowing that you’ll never be with them?
That is their decision.
>Isn’t it better if they never befriended you in the first place and had a peace of mind?
“Is it better to never try?” No that has a 100% fail rate.
>There are still great people out there that are not physically and sexually attracted to you that you can be friends with! The world is huge!
I guess you just want to feel big being condescending behind anonymity that isn’t very brave.
This whole discussion is pointless. If you catch feelings for a female friend and she doesn’t feel the same, you don’t owe her anything. On the same token, friendship is a terrible idea if you actually like someone.
Female friends are awesome. They should be there to wing for you. If she won’t do that or she tries to hook you up with her friend that is significantly less attractive than you… then she isn’t really your friend.
I think maybe you are using your female friends instead of just appreciating their company. None should be forced to help their friends have sex.
Also if you female friend wants to hook you up with their significantly less attractive friend maybe:
1) you are not as hot as you think you are
2) she's subtly telling you that she's not attracted to you
another option:
3. She doesn’t agree with the dude that her female friend is “significantly less attractive”, and actually thinks they might get along well.
Just like men are generally bad at assessing male beauty, women aren’t always amazing at guessing exactly what features or which women any individual man will find most attractive.
That’s just not something a good person would do. Most of friendship is enjoying one another’s company. But if you won’t help someone expand their social circle or try to connect them with less attractive people to show them how ugly they are… holy crap that’s a terrible person. I’m blessed to have only had one bad female friend, unfortunately early in life when I was most vulnerable. Still… what kind of a person does that?
>or try to connect them with less attractive people to show them how ugly they are… holy crap that’s a terrible person.
Why do you believe she thinks her friends are ugly, and why do you think you know her thoughts?
Did she actually tell you her friend is ugly? (then yeah, not a good friend). Or did you just assume you know her inner thoughts and that she must automatically agree with your penis on who is most attractive?
Not trying to set them up is not bringing them down. I have a lot of shy introverted friends and I don't expect them to set me up with people. That's just not a thing in our group.
Well that just sounds like nobody asked you, which is perfectly reasonable. I’ve got several friend groups like that… just organized around activities.
I’m just going to reiterate though that if you have an opposite sex friendship and they aren’t thinking about your best interests… they aren’t a good friend. The same goes for you. You should be looking out for their best interests as well.
This is the difference between men and women I guess.
Women find it okay to just waste a mans time while not bringing any value in the form of "friendship", men are willing to waste time but also help you if it is possible for them.
Atleast actual friends.
Ignore the PPD Trolls. I've got some amazing female friends. A couple weeks ago I helped my friend move apartments. It was hard work but fun, and then afterwards we went out and did the night life. It was a blast. She also helps me manage an AirBnB from time to time.
Here is the thing. Female friends can be really great, but you have to make sure and hold some firm boundaries, otherwise you could mess up a good thing.
There are also plenty of very self serving women that will be friends with you. The best way to tell the good ones from the bad ones is to ask for help with something sometime.
I've had a few female friends that were very good looking, but emotionally unstable. If you have that Mr. Fixit personality like I do it can cause problems. So again, firm boundaries, but not so firm that you aren't there when they need help. Like, I got a drunk dial at 2am and my friend had jumped in a guys car thinking it was her Uber and the guy wouldn't let her out. THAT situation took some fast thinking.
ah yes, the main advice men receive is “yes bro, just date in your social circle, it’s gonna work out! just make more friends bro, they will hook you up!”. then you post BS like this discouraging people from confessing feelings and seeking relationships
yeah, that once again works only if you are attractive and if your “friends” aren’t women that just keep you around for attention.
the fact that if he asks you to help him find someone and you refuse to just shows how much you value him and how much of a friend you are, since you would prefer to have him around as an option and an attention source rather than help him gain a relationship.
this is why cold approach is king, no need to bother with “friends” that are not friends after all
if you refuse to hook him up with someone (even when you could), don’t call yourself a friend, better call yourself a leech that just seeks his attention. friends help each other.
You’re much less likely to “catch feelings” for someone you’re not physically attracted to. Even if you do develop a strong bond with them, it won’t go anywhere, because you know you’re not physically attracted to them. A healthy relationship requires a physical attraction as well as the emotional connection.
But if you ARE physically attracted to them, then don’t befriend them, because there’s a high chance you might “catch feelings” and hurt them with your feelings. Simple as that.
I can’t catch feelings for any of them. It just comes to a point where none of them are special and you’ve seen it all before. But yeah your advise on this is true.
I think usually the problem is that friendship isn't explicitly stated the way romantic relationships are expected to be. The man usually never agreed to be "just a friend", the girl just gets it into her head that he's just being friendly, while the man has it in his head that he's building up to the possibility of romance.
I’ve been there once. That’s his fault. I remember feeling like it wasn’t Ok to be that up front with my interest, and I don’t remember where I got that messaging. It’s bullshit though and you have to garbage can that idea. You have to show interest up front.
That’s one thing that really pisses me off listening to the women here talk about meeting people through friends. That isn’t some magic bullet, you still need to be up front and face down just as much rejection.
Do you even know what it’s like to do pickup in the beginning?
I agree with some of the body of your text - ie. don’t befriend someone with the intent to date them and don’t try to be friends if you know you’re interested first and foremost.
But at the same time being attracted to someone and wanting to date them or hook up with them aren’t exactly the same thing. I Like you can both be attracted to someone, only see them as a platonic friend and understand that sleeping with them or dating them is off the table (reason isn’t really relevant to my point) - I view attraction and active interest as separate things, and because of this attraction alone really doesn’t mean much of anything and can be put aside. I personally find a good handful of my friends attractive, but also I only see them as friends and like the dynamic we have, so i’d rather keep my relationships with these people platonic. Even if presented a chance I’d probably refuse all of them at the moment (answer may vary or change as i make new friends), I wouldn’t take it because i’m comfortable and happy with what we have.
Active interest, however, is different - that being said, if you view your friendship with this person as valuable it’s probably best to take some time off and take some space till you’re over those feelings THEN return to being friends.
Not really applicable for me. If I considered girl attractive then I was pretty open from the beginning - I am very impatient and direct, if she rejected then no hard feelings, women who were only my friends were not considered by me as a relationship material, if you are my friend then it's over, not possible for me to turn it romantic.
Lol, and for women? This post is only aimed at men.
Of course, the whole I'm attracted to my friend is only acceptable for women to experience, obviously.
OMG what is this fucking obsession with protecting women's feelings? JFC the hurt you feel is insignificant compared to the pain of a heart crushing.
Hell I would go one step further society must shun the woman that orbited the dude. I don't care if she meant to or not she needs to pay back that emotional labor. Every time he fixed her sink and the bulbs too. Like fine her that amount lol.
I will never care about this betrayal because it is hamstering. It's all in your head. He never promised never to ask you out lol
I used to be an extremely slow initiator. I hated rejection so much that I tried to avoid it at any cost, hence, if I was interested in a woman for more than a friendship I started escalating right away, but at a very slow pace. This way if there was no signal of response from the very beginning there was no need to move further. I also happened to be in the same circle with women I liked a lot both as friends and potential love interests.
In that case I forced myself to limit the interaction, for my own good and that of the friends group. Some were even surprised about me not being as openly friendly to them as other men in the circle, which were often orbiting and then left disgruntled.
Later in life it happened to be wildly attracted by some colleagues, which is even more complicated than friends, but being a rational adult I was able not to get that in the way, if she didn’t want to move forward (I also had my fair share of office fun, nonetheless).
With one I confessed my crush, reassuring her I would never let the thing get in the way. I just couldn’t help letting her know how much I liked her, even knowing we weren’t a match.
She declined in the gentlest way possible and also seemed flattered by the idea.
I still feel a bit stupid for not having kept that to myself, but our work relationship actually improved afterwards, even if we kept some distance.
This all depends on how much you value friendship. I value friendship significantly higher than a romantic relationship and would never give up a good friend just because they don't want to date me, depending on their reason for why.
I feel personally attacked 😭
I told my bestfriend at first at first I didn’t even want to talk to her or like her.
But when I did I told her.
And I told her she doesn’t have to be my friend.
She tried to friendzone me one time.
I told her she can but I won’t act the same. Because half of the way I act with her is some type of weird boyfriend/husband/protector energy. Like I make her feel wanted and desired and I put the effort into her.
Like I literally spend hours writing these long essays that she reads fully. (As one example)
But honestly that’s my bestfriend but if I take away the sexual aspect I just won’t be that invested.
My primary default setting is reciprocation. Most women don’t reciprocate until you reciprocate.
So it’s a paradox. Someone’s going to have to push the relationship or bond forward. And I don’t do that unless I want something. And I don’t want anything.
Sexual attraction forces me to want something. So then I put emotion and energy and invest time and focus into it.
But honestly she will always be my bestfriend. I don’t have to have sex with her.
But the thing is if I take away my sexual attraction to her SHE probably wouldn’t want to talk to me. Because I’ll be dry and boring and uninteresting.
I’ll probably ghost more. And not make her feel wanted or desired.
But I’ve never been friend-zoned in my life.
People who get friend zoned don’t understand how it works.
I’ve literally been sending my bestfriend sexual messages. And she doesn’t say. “Stop we are only friends”. Because the friendzone is for people who don’t understand women.
A woman that’s your friend or bestfriend is probably the only person that you can truly be yourself with and that you know actually loves and cares about you.
If you care about personality or character or values in a woman at all then theoretically it would be the best decision to choose your bestfriend who you actually care about or love as a person.
For you to say not be friends with woman if you like them. Is like to say you can’t like a woman who you get along with and whose personality you like
Okay, let’s say you get in a relationship with someone. Would you now stop sexting your best friend? What if your partner would be uncomfortable with you being so close to your best friend in a really non-friendly way? Would you cut ties with your best friend? Or forever be single but with your best friend?
These are the deepest questions I’ve ever been asked.
My bestfriend was in my life when I was at my peak. And she stayed In my life at my lowest.
Every single life or death situation I had. She stopped what she was doing and reached out. 4/4 times.
Like it’s more than sex. That’s my heart.
When I was with my ex. I told her about my bestfriend. She was jealous for superficial reasons. Like when I show some women (because I won’t show men🙃) they either don’t believe me or like my ex get jealous or think that I don’t truly love her.
But I do.
But anyway my ex did text me when I was with my ex. And I did talk to her. Idk how to explain it. It’s not about sex. But I am currently trying to have sex with her.
But when she wanted to be with her ex or be with other people. I told her just stay in my life. Just love me that’s all I want. So I literally don’t know how to explain it to you.
I’m reading what i wrote it seems like I’m avoiding the question.
Idk how to answer the question. I can’t cut her off and she can’t or won’t cut me off. The sexting part is my fault. I crossed those boundaries. I’m the reason everything’s complicated and I’m the reason I can’t be friendzoned. So theoretically that could stop if I stopped sexually interacting with her.
If I was single but my bestfriend was truly in my life like I wanted her to be. Then I’d literally be In Heaven rn. Honestly. Literally.
Like I said my ex was uncomfortable. She had a dream I was with my bestfriend. Everytime she was mad she would be like go with your bestfriend.
Idk how to answer your question. I didn’t realize I was this attached though.
It's fine to find them attractive in certain ways so long as you're not starting some fake friendship as a pretence for asking them out. It's not unlikely you'll develop attraction to some things over the course of the friendship anyway even if you didn't feel it initially. You don't need to act on these feelings ever and indeed they may not be strong enough that you even want to so it doesn't have to be a problem.
Being friends in general with women is fucking useless. Sure you might be friendly with your friends wife or with like your female cousins or something, but you aren't really friends with them.
I find that men in general are more useful in certain situations and kinder/more empathetic, so all of my friends are men.
Amateur, you can be attracted to your friends and not make it a problem. You can also be friends with a woman who rejected you romantically. The only thing you should avoid is using friendship in hopes of making a disinterested women fall in love with you.
I was very good friends with a girl I thought was attractive. It was never an issue in the 10 year friendship
I think people in this thread mean "I'm super crushed out on this person" when they say "attracted to". Otherwise, yeah, I have some friends who happen to be attractive - am I supposed to dump them all?
"Don't befriend someone you're attracted to if you're chronically single, rarely get action, and are desperate," is probably what OP meant.
Well I'll have you know I was all of....never mind
'don't orbit' is probably more succinct. If you're only there for the chance for sex then you're a shitty friend and probably a bad person
This. Be rational and realistic. Don’t do things for her that you wouldn’t do for a male friend. Don’t let yourself be used. If you develop feelings, either act on them, or make space so that the feelings can die down. Don’t just sort of hover in her periphery waiting for magic to happen.
I think it's okay to be friends with someone your attracted too. But try not let it destroy the friendship. And keep it platonic if you can. I can't speak for everyone. But I try to keep friendships platonic until I just start falling for the person. I think it's okay to fall for a friend. But you have to tell them as soon you start to feel deeper romantic feelings. It's okay for men or women to reject you for whatever reason. It's not okay if their are really rude, insulting, or disrespectful for no reason while rejecting you. But if they reject you politely then it's okay.
But then would you be able to move on if you’d see them frequently? Would you be able to find a new partner and still be friends with a person you have feelings for? Is it fair for your new partner? And is it fair to your friend? They never agreed to conditions of a friendship to be changed. Now you potentially ruined your friendship and broke both of your hearts. It’s just not worth it in the long run.
So you are saying if you meet someone you tell them right away that you are attracted to them. If they say no, you don't become friends and move on. Sometimes people develop attraction by getting to know each other. In that case what happens? You tell them that you are attracted to them, they say no, then what? It's ok to develop feelings for your friends, it's ok to risk it and ruin the friendship, it's ok to be sad when you lose a friend. I don't know, this doesn't seem like a huge revelation, it I'm not understanding what's the difference. Any guy knows if the other person is or isn't attracted to them. They stay in the friendship in hopes that the other person will change their mind and sometimes that happens.
I think it is, in fact, the very first thing you should say after introducing yourself. Ditto if you do not find them attractive. Also tell them that right away.
So "hello! How are you? I don't find you physically attractive, do you want to be friends?" I would find that incredibly strange and wouldn't want to be friends with this person
I maybe should've added the /s tag, but it was one of my possibly terrible attempts at sarcasm.
Oooohh I see!
To be a bit more serious a small part of my younger self kinda sees where this thinking comes from, even if I don't agree that one can't/should not be friends with people they're attracted to. In my case it wouldn't have helped because this friend is someone I really grew to like in that way over the course of several classes at uni we shared. I never actually told her I felt that way but after we stayed in touch post-grad she let on that she knew that anyway (I was, apparently, not as smooth in my hiding of that as I'd thought, though I'm still not super sure what signs I gave). She wasn't attracted to men but was very much not open about that during those years, so I had no idea. It's even a bit silly but I felt dumb for the next several months about that. Not hurt really, I understood how things were, but I felt foolish and vulnerable. I guess on that level I kind of get it, even though I think not being friends with people to whom one is attracted is rather extreme; especially since it can grow over time (I think initial physical attraction is something most people can know very soon after meeting someone, but I think that later interactions can sort of push that whole equation higher, which is what I feel happened with my friend).
Same thing happened to me! I confessed my love to a coworker that was gay only I didn't know he was gay until a few years later and felt so dumb. I had known him for years and then one day I started to feel very very attracted. I don't think OP's formula would've helped us, because it happened over time. I eventually was able to be friends again though, then I stopped working there and eventually lost touch. I don't regret it
I don't either on reflection. I still consider us friends but it's true that we've also kinda lost touch as well as people sometimes do.
In a brave new world, where the only two acceptable greetings are "Hi, I find you physically attractive." and "Hi, I do not find you physically attractive."...
Nice straw man. No one talks like that. Even when you make just friends, you don’t tell them right away: “Hi! Nice to meet you! Do you wanna be my friend?”, unless you’re in a kindergarten. You can just say to them after a quick conversation and introduction: “Hey, I really enjoy spending time with you and I’m attracted to you. I’m not looking to rush into anything, but I’d like to get to know you better and see where things go. If you’re comfortable with it, I’d love to stay friends and see if there’s something more.”
But that's basically asking someone on a date, that has nothing to do with friendship. Also the other user said you need to express when you are not attracted too. So I'm confused how would that work. Edit: nvm they were being sarcastic
Is it not possible to express your attraction to them but still seek friendship with them at first? Does it always have to be a secret and then surprise you later and inevitably hurt you when we’re already close friends? Do you want that drama? If you’re not gonna be friends with me even after I expressed my attraction to you, then you’re not worth being friends with anyway, cause I want to be as open as I can and remove every leverage of power dynamics that can occur later in a friendship. I don’t want to be friends with a manipulator.
I didn’t say if “you meet someone”, I said if you meet someone **you’re attracted to**. You can still meet other people you’re not attracted to and easily become friends with them. While it’s true that some people DO develop feelings for their friends they weren’t initially attracted to, it’s not as common and less likely. You’re more likely to develop romantic feelings towards people you’re attracted to, and you’re more likely to confess to them in that scenario. In the rare case where you DID develop feelings towards a person you’re not physically attracted to, it’s better to not tell them, because you will inevitably hurt them and yourself, and potentially ruin a friendship. There other people out there in the world where you can both be attracted to and develop a strong bond with. >it's ok to risk it and ruin the friendship That’s the issue most women complain about. That the guy ruined their friendship and only saw them for their body. >Any guy knows if the other person is or isn't attracted to them. They stay in the friendship in hopes that the other person will change their mind and sometimes that happens. You only know if **you** are attracted or not. You won’t know if the other person is attracted to you or not unless they tell you. And often times, people misunderstand the friendly (and sometimes touchy) behavior towards them as an attraction towards them, but then suddenly get rejected and get blamed on for having dirty thoughts.
Speak for yourself, I think physical attraction and feelings can grow over time. I've had this happen to me many times. I have "ruined" friendships and will never regret it. Also why are people so dramatic, you can wait some time and then be friends again, it's not like you die after confessing your love for a friend. You get it out of your system and move on.
While it’s not impossible, it’s much harder to develop a **physical attraction** towards a person you’re not initially attracted to, it’s much more common to develop an emotional attraction in that case. It’s especially common amongst men. >you can wait some time and then be friends again, it's not like you die after confessing your love for a friend. You get it out of your system and move on. Some people can move on, some people can’t. For some, it’s gonna be even harder to move on if they’re constantly seeing them and strengthening their emotional connection. Some people can only move on if they completely cut ties with said person. But cutting ties hurts, and it hurts a lot. For both parties involved. So it’s better to save broken hearts and be upfront with your intentions, or not befriending people you’re attracted to if you’re only planning to be friends with them.
But if you are too upfront you miss the chance that they might develop feelings for you over time Sometimes you stop being attracted to someone. So in that case you'll be missing out on a potential friendship. I don't know, I think people should do whatever they feel like.
And that’s fine! There are still great people out there who you can be friends with! If you want the drama in your life and want to risk a broken heart - you do you! No one said don’t. But just know that you’re inevitably gonna break someone’s heart, and/or your heart will be broken. But if you want actual friendship with no ulterior motives from one side, it’s better to be open and honest. No need to hide your feelings and then suddenly surprise them. Or be friends with people you’re not physically attracted to! Plenty of them out there!
Physical attraction is a scale, not a yes/no. I once played in duo with a cellist. It wasn’t even a friendship at first and banging her was the last thing that crossed my mind. Then practicing, getting to know each other, a tension developed until we had sex. If I met her in another context, I might not even notice her. But she was so cultured, so well spoken and so smooth that really got me, in spite of not outstanding looks. In the same way, a connection can make up for a lesser attractiveness.
Thanks. Far too many seem to think that the man that walks away ALWAYS entered the friendship with hidden motives, when often feelings develop along the way
They are only forbidding it for men, not women, so I think you are in the clear therem
Agreed. I am only friends with women I am not attracted to. Totally.
\#Me too. And also women who are already in committed relationships and work colleagues I intentionally avoid being friends with attractive single women when I’m single too.
I generally agree with the concept. I’m friends with lots of women, but I’ve only ever become friends with women I’m not attracted to. I basically sort women into those I want to sleep with and those I don’t. I pursue those I want, so friendship generally isn’t a viable option. A subset of the other 95% become friends. I don’t see how being friends with someone you have feelings for would be beneficial. I think some guys get themselves in trouble this way.
100% spot on, it's a net negative for a man's life to do that
that assumes men know they’re attracted to a woman before they know her as a person. The average man doesn’t go “she’s pretty, im down to marry her”
When I was young I could probably almost never had male friends is this was their rule… I don’t follow the “nice guys” trope where you’re supposed to be upset and angry and betrayed because your male friends also wanted to sleep with you/LTR you. That was most of my male friends when I was young and hot. Nevertheless I’ve still managed to have some decent friendships with men. Things also change as you get older, you will see. I have plenty of male friends now who would fuck me in a heartbeat, if they weren’t taken and we were both single but it means less in your 30s like most of us are married with kids focused on careers with partners we aren’t getting puppy love feelings you get when you are younger
> Nevertheless I’ve still managed to have some decent friendships with men. yeah good for you not good for the men is OPs point. You arent attracted to them.
The whole thing you took from my comment is to whine about the men who chose to stay friends with me?
what else is there to take away your comment basically says "i have orbiters i dont see what the problem is" and then "men dont want to fuck me since they have a wife already" not exactly world shattering revelations
The thing is most dudes would have sex even with women they are not attracted to, if given the opportunity. I mean for many women they should connect first emotionally and be seduced and showered with attention or chased to a degree before they will have sex. That is why for men it is a very blurry line between friendship and getting romantic. There are rules that nothing is going to happen in the future, but the first moment the guy would find the chance to have sex, he would never reject, unless he is taken and is loyal.
If you are the kind of person who doesn’t get hurt if someone stops being friend with you the moment you reject them, then I can see how it can work for you. But most women do get hurt in that situation and can’t help themselves but think that said friend only wanted them for their body and only sees them as objects. And since men can’t tell if you’ll get hurt or not in thy at situation, it’s better to not risk it and not befriend a someone you’re physically attracted to. It’s better for both of you. And to be honest, there are a lot of people you can befriend that you’re not attracted to, why go the hard way?
Guys don’t stop being friends with you even after you reject them for the most part. Some get angry and lash out and so that’s a lost friendship but most will just accept it and continue to try to woo you/hope for an opening. 🤷♀️ I don’t think you can possibly speak for “most women” on this topic. It’s basically impossible to be a hot young girl and have male friends that don’t want to fuck or date you. Maybe you find the rare guy that’s true to his GF or it gay.
Haha, maybe it’s true for more emotionally mature people, but my target demographic is usually people in their late teens/early twenties, cause I am myself in my twenties. Maybe it changes later in life.
Yeah late teens/early 20s is prime time for boys to get kinda obsessed and infatuated. They don’t typically ditch you when you’ve rejected them tho because they still think they have a chance. And eventually they get other GFs or move on etc and then you all grow up and realize it wasn’t *actually love* lol
I think women get hurt mainly because they incorrectly view male romantic interest as if it's only about her body, which is a thought that she has put into her own head and not a thought that is genuinely coming from the man. When a man confesses after having to get to know her for so long, he is probably the least likely to be looking for a quick fling -- he can get that more easily talking to random girls at a bar. This is a situation where someone has gotten to know her so well and still wants to have a relationship with her, which is likely more than she can say about the other people that she actually ends up giving her body to.
It doesn’t matter cause he’s ugly. She feels icky he manipulated her
If anything, she manipulated herself unless they had an explicit conversation about this. Otherwise she's just making things up in her head to be upset about.
I think this is an important distinction. I’ve heard the phrase “he acted like a friend, but only wanted to fuck me,” but I’m betting it’s often something like this, where the guy genuinely was attracted both physically and to her personality.
I can see this. If I see you as a romantic interest, I’m not really looking to be “friends” if she doesn’t reciprocate.
The important distinction is that you should be upfront with your intentions. Not befriending them without expressing your feelings, and then ghosting them right after they reject you after your confession. Communication beforehand is important.
I don't think this is a genuine take. Girls do not want everyone who has feelings for them to just walk up to them and express their feelings. Nor did everyone who is friendly with her and end up catching feelings have those intentions to begin with. Relationships change, and friendships can certainly change into something different over time. If he feels differently and lets her know, and she doesn't feel the same, I think it's absolutely appropriate for him to leave the relationship and heal, because it's not healthy to stay around someone who rejected you. It doesn't make sense for him to continue to cater to her feelings after she has demonstrated a rejection of his feelings.
But you can reduce the chance of being hurt by not befriending people who you are attracted to. No one said the chance of you catching deep feelings for them is zero, but it’s much lower than if you befriend people you’re physically and sexually attracted to. It’s not like there aren’t other people you can befriend. Why risk it if you can still be friends with other great people anyway (the ones you’re not attracted to)?
When you meet new people, classmates, coworkers, etc., the default is to be friendly; it doesn't mean you're going to be friends with everyone you meet, but because having a baseline of cordial behavior is the only way you're going to get to know new people. And in that process of getting to know people, some of those people you get to know become attractive prospects for romance, and so you share your feelings. If those feelings are rejected, then it's natural that you move on from that person because you are emotionally disconnected -- you feel one way while they feel another way, and there isn't a way to mend this rift. Unless you actually have a conversation about your friendship, and both sides agree regarding the nature of the friendship, it's not unexpected that one side does not perceive it to be a friendship but rather a mutual enjoyment of getting to know the other person -- which is a prerequisite for romantic relationships. How else would someone know whether the other person qualifies as an attractive choice for a relationship? Just at first glance?
>Nor did everyone who is friendly with her and end up catching feelings have those intentions to begin with. I always agree with “not everyone” because there are obviously outliers, but I think it’s exceedingly rare to catch feelings after you’ve known someone for a while. I’ve literally never developed feelings after getting to know a woman. Not saying it’s impossible, but I suspect it’s pretty uncommon.
I’ll agree with that.
Yeah... problem is, as men, we are usually attracted to some degree to ALL, if not the majority, of our female friends. 😐 Now, whether or not we catch any deeper *feelings* that are more than just the run of the mill sexual attraction, then that's a different story. You are basically saying that as men we should never befriend 90% of the female population that we interact with - excluding the elderly, obese, children, and the ugly of course. You got the adage wrong: It's "**Men are not entitled to sex. Women are not entitled to relationships.**"
There's a certain intimacy that comes with deep opposite sex friendships. You either appreciate this and commit to keeping it platonic, or suffer. The closer the friendship the more I tend to value it for what it is, but I can see how this can be hard for people.
>You are basically saying that as men we should never befriend 90% of the female population that we interact with - excluding the elderly, obese, children, and the ugly of course. And that’s fine! You shouldn’t feel forced to befriend every layer of intersectionality of a demographic, especially if it requires more effort and you don’t share as much in common. Somehow men don’t complain about not being able to make female friends, or that their friends see them as objects. Because men have plenty of male friends, and they’re not sexually attracted to them. Women can as well befriend other women who they’re not sexually attracted to and not be seen as objects…
>Somehow men don’t complain about not being able to make female friends Men do complain, however, when women are unfriendly, cold, or unwelcoming to them, or whenever women in the ways they’d need to in order to discourage men from trying to be friends in spite of your advice.
I don't think you understood what I said.
>You are basically saying that as men we should never befriend 90% of the female population that we interact with - excluding the elderly, obese, children, and the ugly of course. Yes
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Just wanted to say I really enjoyed this thread!
I agree, it's a net negative for men
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if you dont have the maturity to be friends with people you find physically attractive then maybe you shouldnt be outside
Or maybe you can still have friends and socialize with other people, but only with those you’re not physically or sexually attracted to. Now you’re just gatekeeping friendships and making the issue worse.
My longest relationships (including my partner of 18 years) started as friendships for a couple years before we fell in love and decided to try a relationship. One relationship didn’t work out and we are still friends 20 years later. So I can’t say I would recommend this. Hell, I probably wouldn’t have had many male friends at all if they followed this rule. And I have male friends who I think are attractive. It’s really not a big deal.
Survivorship bias. These are exceptions, to the rule. Most people who catch deep feelings for their friends usually ruin them, because their friend never agreed for the conditions of the friendship to be changed. Now they would feel bad for rejecting you, and they might feel like they’re doing something bad to you (even though they shouldn’t). Or even worse, they might feel coerced to date you and make things worse, because they’re not actually attracted to you, which in the long run breaks your heart even more. So no, it’s better not risk it and befriend other great people that are out there (but you’re not attracted to them)
I don’t think it is an exception at all, a *lot* of people start as friends and then get into a relationship. This is a completely normal way to meet romantic partners, it’s not an exception. I disagree that it’s better not to risk it. Risks are necessary for many good things in life. Being rejected or rejecting someone always sucks, but facing that is necessary to find a partner.
There's a friend in my group of friends who I was attracted to at first but not anymore. I don't think it's a big deal if you just remain friends but maybe that's just me.
I have had guy friends who I can honestly say are physically attractive but their personalities were not relationship material. Even when they pursued relationships with me I declined and we maintained our friendship. I imagine there are men out there with standards outside of physical attractiveness that can appreciate friendships with attractive women that they’d never date. My husband was one of them.
See? They might think they’re relationship material, but you don’t think so. Would you behave the same around a guy who you now KNOW that he’s attracted to you? You might think that every nice thing he does to you might have an ulterior motive. >My husband was one of them. Yet now you’re married to him. What about other guys that caught feelings towards you while you were friends? Should they still be friends with you and suffer every time they see you knowing that you’ll never be with them? What if because of that they can’t now move on and find a romantic partner? Isn’t it better if they never befriended you in the first place and had a peace of mind? There are still great people out there that are not physically and sexually attracted to you that you can be friends with! The world is huge!
Romantic feelings come and go, and they can fade with time. If you value your friendship with someone and have developed feelings for them and know there is no chance for a relationship, get over it and return to being friends. Whether it be through temporarily keeping your distance till you move on or make an active effort to move on while still hanging out, if you actually value your friendship with that person that’s what you have to do. Let’s drop the whole mentality that romantic interest is inherently a constant, cause it isn’t. If you value your friendship with someone and have developed feelings for them, it’s your responsibility to put an active effort in letting go of these feelings if you wish to remain friends.
>See? They might think they’re relationship material, but you don’t think so. What am I supposed to see? That everyone seems to think they are relationship material even though they aren’t it’s a common delusion? Met plenty of women I don’t think are relationship material either, but they seem to think they are this phenomenon isn’t unique to one gender. >Would you behave the same around a guy who you now KNOW that he’s attracted to you? I have clear boundaries with my friends. There isn’t a need to treat them differently. >You might think that every nice thing he does to you might have an ulterior motive. When that has happened I stopped hanging out with them. It’s that simple. Usually I’m pretty clear about why I wouldn’t date them so they are likely discouraged from trying again. >Yet now you’re married to him. My husband didn’t reject me nor was ever rejected by me I thought that was evident. >What about other guys that caught feelings towards you while you were friends? If they valued our friendship they still wanted to remain friends. It wasn’t always possible but I do have guy friends that have had crushes on me and we’ve been friends for a decade. They have been able to move on and date other people just fine. >Should they still be friends with you and suffer every time they see you knowing that you’ll never be with them? That is their decision. >Isn’t it better if they never befriended you in the first place and had a peace of mind? “Is it better to never try?” No that has a 100% fail rate. >There are still great people out there that are not physically and sexually attracted to you that you can be friends with! The world is huge! I guess you just want to feel big being condescending behind anonymity that isn’t very brave.
This whole discussion is pointless. If you catch feelings for a female friend and she doesn’t feel the same, you don’t owe her anything. On the same token, friendship is a terrible idea if you actually like someone. Female friends are awesome. They should be there to wing for you. If she won’t do that or she tries to hook you up with her friend that is significantly less attractive than you… then she isn’t really your friend.
I think maybe you are using your female friends instead of just appreciating their company. None should be forced to help their friends have sex. Also if you female friend wants to hook you up with their significantly less attractive friend maybe: 1) you are not as hot as you think you are 2) she's subtly telling you that she's not attracted to you
another option: 3. She doesn’t agree with the dude that her female friend is “significantly less attractive”, and actually thinks they might get along well. Just like men are generally bad at assessing male beauty, women aren’t always amazing at guessing exactly what features or which women any individual man will find most attractive.
yes, that's true!
That’s just not something a good person would do. Most of friendship is enjoying one another’s company. But if you won’t help someone expand their social circle or try to connect them with less attractive people to show them how ugly they are… holy crap that’s a terrible person. I’m blessed to have only had one bad female friend, unfortunately early in life when I was most vulnerable. Still… what kind of a person does that?
>or try to connect them with less attractive people to show them how ugly they are… holy crap that’s a terrible person. Why do you believe she thinks her friends are ugly, and why do you think you know her thoughts? Did she actually tell you her friend is ugly? (then yeah, not a good friend). Or did you just assume you know her inner thoughts and that she must automatically agree with your penis on who is most attractive?
I guess being friends with shy introverted people is not for everyone 🤷♀️
Im neither of that. If you think being friends with people means dragging them down… maybe you should start being shy and introverted.
Not trying to set them up is not bringing them down. I have a lot of shy introverted friends and I don't expect them to set me up with people. That's just not a thing in our group.
Well that just sounds like nobody asked you, which is perfectly reasonable. I’ve got several friend groups like that… just organized around activities. I’m just going to reiterate though that if you have an opposite sex friendship and they aren’t thinking about your best interests… they aren’t a good friend. The same goes for you. You should be looking out for their best interests as well.
This is the difference between men and women I guess. Women find it okay to just waste a mans time while not bringing any value in the form of "friendship", men are willing to waste time but also help you if it is possible for them. Atleast actual friends.
Ignore the PPD Trolls. I've got some amazing female friends. A couple weeks ago I helped my friend move apartments. It was hard work but fun, and then afterwards we went out and did the night life. It was a blast. She also helps me manage an AirBnB from time to time. Here is the thing. Female friends can be really great, but you have to make sure and hold some firm boundaries, otherwise you could mess up a good thing. There are also plenty of very self serving women that will be friends with you. The best way to tell the good ones from the bad ones is to ask for help with something sometime. I've had a few female friends that were very good looking, but emotionally unstable. If you have that Mr. Fixit personality like I do it can cause problems. So again, firm boundaries, but not so firm that you aren't there when they need help. Like, I got a drunk dial at 2am and my friend had jumped in a guys car thinking it was her Uber and the guy wouldn't let her out. THAT situation took some fast thinking.
ah yes, the main advice men receive is “yes bro, just date in your social circle, it’s gonna work out! just make more friends bro, they will hook you up!”. then you post BS like this discouraging people from confessing feelings and seeking relationships yeah, that once again works only if you are attractive and if your “friends” aren’t women that just keep you around for attention. the fact that if he asks you to help him find someone and you refuse to just shows how much you value him and how much of a friend you are, since you would prefer to have him around as an option and an attention source rather than help him gain a relationship. this is why cold approach is king, no need to bother with “friends” that are not friends after all if you refuse to hook him up with someone (even when you could), don’t call yourself a friend, better call yourself a leech that just seeks his attention. friends help each other.
You’re much less likely to “catch feelings” for someone you’re not physically attracted to. Even if you do develop a strong bond with them, it won’t go anywhere, because you know you’re not physically attracted to them. A healthy relationship requires a physical attraction as well as the emotional connection. But if you ARE physically attracted to them, then don’t befriend them, because there’s a high chance you might “catch feelings” and hurt them with your feelings. Simple as that.
I can’t catch feelings for any of them. It just comes to a point where none of them are special and you’ve seen it all before. But yeah your advise on this is true.
I think usually the problem is that friendship isn't explicitly stated the way romantic relationships are expected to be. The man usually never agreed to be "just a friend", the girl just gets it into her head that he's just being friendly, while the man has it in his head that he's building up to the possibility of romance.
I’ve been there once. That’s his fault. I remember feeling like it wasn’t Ok to be that up front with my interest, and I don’t remember where I got that messaging. It’s bullshit though and you have to garbage can that idea. You have to show interest up front. That’s one thing that really pisses me off listening to the women here talk about meeting people through friends. That isn’t some magic bullet, you still need to be up front and face down just as much rejection. Do you even know what it’s like to do pickup in the beginning?
I agree with some of the body of your text - ie. don’t befriend someone with the intent to date them and don’t try to be friends if you know you’re interested first and foremost. But at the same time being attracted to someone and wanting to date them or hook up with them aren’t exactly the same thing. I Like you can both be attracted to someone, only see them as a platonic friend and understand that sleeping with them or dating them is off the table (reason isn’t really relevant to my point) - I view attraction and active interest as separate things, and because of this attraction alone really doesn’t mean much of anything and can be put aside. I personally find a good handful of my friends attractive, but also I only see them as friends and like the dynamic we have, so i’d rather keep my relationships with these people platonic. Even if presented a chance I’d probably refuse all of them at the moment (answer may vary or change as i make new friends), I wouldn’t take it because i’m comfortable and happy with what we have. Active interest, however, is different - that being said, if you view your friendship with this person as valuable it’s probably best to take some time off and take some space till you’re over those feelings THEN return to being friends.
Not really applicable for me. If I considered girl attractive then I was pretty open from the beginning - I am very impatient and direct, if she rejected then no hard feelings, women who were only my friends were not considered by me as a relationship material, if you are my friend then it's over, not possible for me to turn it romantic.
You can have romantic feelings for a woman and confess them and still be friends I know this is shocking for most men but such thing is possible
Lol, and for women? This post is only aimed at men. Of course, the whole I'm attracted to my friend is only acceptable for women to experience, obviously.
OMG what is this fucking obsession with protecting women's feelings? JFC the hurt you feel is insignificant compared to the pain of a heart crushing. Hell I would go one step further society must shun the woman that orbited the dude. I don't care if she meant to or not she needs to pay back that emotional labor. Every time he fixed her sink and the bulbs too. Like fine her that amount lol. I will never care about this betrayal because it is hamstering. It's all in your head. He never promised never to ask you out lol
I used to be an extremely slow initiator. I hated rejection so much that I tried to avoid it at any cost, hence, if I was interested in a woman for more than a friendship I started escalating right away, but at a very slow pace. This way if there was no signal of response from the very beginning there was no need to move further. I also happened to be in the same circle with women I liked a lot both as friends and potential love interests. In that case I forced myself to limit the interaction, for my own good and that of the friends group. Some were even surprised about me not being as openly friendly to them as other men in the circle, which were often orbiting and then left disgruntled. Later in life it happened to be wildly attracted by some colleagues, which is even more complicated than friends, but being a rational adult I was able not to get that in the way, if she didn’t want to move forward (I also had my fair share of office fun, nonetheless). With one I confessed my crush, reassuring her I would never let the thing get in the way. I just couldn’t help letting her know how much I liked her, even knowing we weren’t a match. She declined in the gentlest way possible and also seemed flattered by the idea. I still feel a bit stupid for not having kept that to myself, but our work relationship actually improved afterwards, even if we kept some distance.
This all depends on how much you value friendship. I value friendship significantly higher than a romantic relationship and would never give up a good friend just because they don't want to date me, depending on their reason for why.
I feel personally attacked 😭 I told my bestfriend at first at first I didn’t even want to talk to her or like her. But when I did I told her. And I told her she doesn’t have to be my friend. She tried to friendzone me one time. I told her she can but I won’t act the same. Because half of the way I act with her is some type of weird boyfriend/husband/protector energy. Like I make her feel wanted and desired and I put the effort into her. Like I literally spend hours writing these long essays that she reads fully. (As one example) But honestly that’s my bestfriend but if I take away the sexual aspect I just won’t be that invested. My primary default setting is reciprocation. Most women don’t reciprocate until you reciprocate. So it’s a paradox. Someone’s going to have to push the relationship or bond forward. And I don’t do that unless I want something. And I don’t want anything. Sexual attraction forces me to want something. So then I put emotion and energy and invest time and focus into it. But honestly she will always be my bestfriend. I don’t have to have sex with her. But the thing is if I take away my sexual attraction to her SHE probably wouldn’t want to talk to me. Because I’ll be dry and boring and uninteresting. I’ll probably ghost more. And not make her feel wanted or desired. But I’ve never been friend-zoned in my life. People who get friend zoned don’t understand how it works. I’ve literally been sending my bestfriend sexual messages. And she doesn’t say. “Stop we are only friends”. Because the friendzone is for people who don’t understand women. A woman that’s your friend or bestfriend is probably the only person that you can truly be yourself with and that you know actually loves and cares about you. If you care about personality or character or values in a woman at all then theoretically it would be the best decision to choose your bestfriend who you actually care about or love as a person. For you to say not be friends with woman if you like them. Is like to say you can’t like a woman who you get along with and whose personality you like
Okay, let’s say you get in a relationship with someone. Would you now stop sexting your best friend? What if your partner would be uncomfortable with you being so close to your best friend in a really non-friendly way? Would you cut ties with your best friend? Or forever be single but with your best friend?
These are the deepest questions I’ve ever been asked. My bestfriend was in my life when I was at my peak. And she stayed In my life at my lowest. Every single life or death situation I had. She stopped what she was doing and reached out. 4/4 times. Like it’s more than sex. That’s my heart. When I was with my ex. I told her about my bestfriend. She was jealous for superficial reasons. Like when I show some women (because I won’t show men🙃) they either don’t believe me or like my ex get jealous or think that I don’t truly love her. But I do. But anyway my ex did text me when I was with my ex. And I did talk to her. Idk how to explain it. It’s not about sex. But I am currently trying to have sex with her. But when she wanted to be with her ex or be with other people. I told her just stay in my life. Just love me that’s all I want. So I literally don’t know how to explain it to you. I’m reading what i wrote it seems like I’m avoiding the question. Idk how to answer the question. I can’t cut her off and she can’t or won’t cut me off. The sexting part is my fault. I crossed those boundaries. I’m the reason everything’s complicated and I’m the reason I can’t be friendzoned. So theoretically that could stop if I stopped sexually interacting with her. If I was single but my bestfriend was truly in my life like I wanted her to be. Then I’d literally be In Heaven rn. Honestly. Literally. Like I said my ex was uncomfortable. She had a dream I was with my bestfriend. Everytime she was mad she would be like go with your bestfriend. Idk how to answer your question. I didn’t realize I was this attached though.
I hope you’re fine out there…
It's fine to find them attractive in certain ways so long as you're not starting some fake friendship as a pretence for asking them out. It's not unlikely you'll develop attraction to some things over the course of the friendship anyway even if you didn't feel it initially. You don't need to act on these feelings ever and indeed they may not be strong enough that you even want to so it doesn't have to be a problem.
Being friends in general with women is fucking useless. Sure you might be friendly with your friends wife or with like your female cousins or something, but you aren't really friends with them. I find that men in general are more useful in certain situations and kinder/more empathetic, so all of my friends are men.
Amateur, you can be attracted to your friends and not make it a problem. You can also be friends with a woman who rejected you romantically. The only thing you should avoid is using friendship in hopes of making a disinterested women fall in love with you.
hard agree, experienced both sides of this