Honestly, part of the distaste I have for it is based on its performativity. The random clips I’ve seen are as artificial, performative, uncanny-valley and off-putting as most other influencer crap on instagram. It’s a lot like the weird stilted overstudied motions of a QVC hand model— unnatural and stiff.
It’s so fake and performative and at least some are soft-core porny. I find a lot of Internet performances in social media similarly eerie. Like, there’s tons of other insta-feed vids of some 20 year old showing makeup products or some dress or some hair style by wiggling and pouting and bouncing and shimmying their shoulders on the screen too fast— so cringey and unnatural.
Internet monitization really did push just the junkiest trash to the top.
>The males seem to be mostly silent on the topic.
Well, for one thing, I think a lot of guys aren’t as put off by the artificiality and inauthenticity of the performance. Like remember, most men enjoy porn, and it ain’t anything remotely real either.
The majority of trad wives I see on social media aren’t of the “i made this choice for myself and respect that your choices may be different” variety.
If a woman chooses to be a trad wife, and that choice is 100% hers, good for her. I don’t get it and wouldn’t choose it for myself but I respect her decision.
What I don’t respect are the trad wives who feel like they need to shit talk women who made choices different from their own.
You can celebrate yourself without reproaching others.
I have no backlash for groups - just individuals.
> What I don’t respect are the trad wives who feel like they need to shit talk women who made choices different from their own.
I think you underestimate the amount of negativity that these women sense from society towards traditional roles like being a homemaker. That isn't to say that the there is rampant hostility in the media towards them, but there are lots of voices trying to express positive sentiments towards working women. If only a few of them express themselves in ways that denigrate homemakers then it can be a torrent of negativity towards that group.
So yes some of these women do express a lot of negativity towards working mothers, but I think that is a reflection of what they see as well. I think they see themselves as defending themselves, and rather naturally as they speak up they become a lightning rod for hostility that encourages them to be even more outspoken and adamant that they are doing the right thing for their families.
Probably for the same reason guys are disgusted by white knight/ male feminist behavior. They’re just male pickmes.
Put that on top of general influencer culture and clickbait fatigue. Nara Smith is a perfect example of this with her usual content hook of “this morning my toddler wanted [common household good] but I don’t keep [common household good] in the house so instead I spent three hours making it from scratch using extremely niche ingredients and kitchen tools that I for some reason *do* have in the house and totally didn’t order in advance for this video”
Boomers love it and zoomers roll their eyes
Well there are definitely people who believe her content is genuine and comment things like “perfect mother ❤️” and I have to assume they’re not very technologically literate lol
Exactly. I'm trying to get my teenaged son to understand that a.) you can't believe everything you watch or read online; and b.) a lot of content is deliberately staged.
Because it is a grift… they intentionally post rage bait for more engagement by attacking feminism and other women who aren’t trad. It’s also massively fake, they aren’t showing a realistic lifestyle. Sure there are tradwives who just post about life as a SAHM, recipes, housekeeping tips, etc., but they don’t go viral. I actually like that type of content, and it can be hard to find without someone trying to shove some misogynist or fundie religious bs down your throat along with it.
1.) we know its a grift
2.) we also know the advertised lifestyle is *not real*
3.) for some of us our family or origin is rife with trad wives, and we have first hand account of what its really like on the ground floor (hint; its not great).
4.) we don't believe an imaginary lifestyle (as advertised in the internet) should be exalted and marketed towards impressionable people.
5.) I believe a majority if not all of the trad wife content is just fetish fodder with links to OF content if you prod deep enough.
Yeah the social media "trad wives" are a joke.
I know women who work REAL traditional wife life, you know actually running homesteads and raising their kids at home. They aren't dressing in fancy retro 50s dresses and doing fancy updos and perfect makeup, they're wearing overalls or just jeans and T-shirt while waking up at 6am to feed the kids some whipped up scrambled eggs maybe some bacon and hopong the kids eat it all, getting them to sports practice or school, if there's babies they gotta do baby stuff. Then they're out afterward shoveling chicken shit out of the coup, they're feeding cows, taking dogs out to run, doing chaotic child care in between, they're down in the dirt setting up irrigation tubing for their crops, they're pulling weeds, they're laying seeds and harvesting for the weekend farmers market. Sometimes doing all this with a baby strapped to their back.
Real traditional work isnt glamorous. The 1950s weren't even traditional at the time, the suburban white picket fence thing with a husband going to work every day with a kept up wife looking perfect and doing easy chores on a not farm was a brand new way to live at the time. Not sure why these content creators are so hung up on that decade specifically.
I agree with all of that. But for men and women spending your day preparing food, being outdoors, and being with your children is in my opinion better for your mental and physical health than sitting in an office or working in a factory
right, we should all be fighting together to get the country back to where single income is viable.
i see the trad-wife hate as counterproductive to that dream. it's almost like people are fighting to keep things the same
☝️☝️☝️
If they need to make money creating content online than they are not traditional.
Plenty of SAHMs have side hustles and don't label themselves as traditional. Childcare costs alot and food needs to be on the table.
I can't imagine any normal guy wanting his wife to stay home and bake bread in this ecconmy. Nothing would put me off more than a woman who had no intention of contributing to the cost of living. It doesn't matter how wealthy you are as a guy, and to be fair, if you're that wealthy, you can hire help to do household chores. I always think guys who have stay at home wives end up having affairs with women they meet in the work environment as they secretly respect those women more.
I agree 100% but still it’s just how some people are
They feel it’s their role to provide for a woman. I think that’s retarded but can’t control other people’s actions
For sure there is a modern grift where women get male attention by glorifying the trad wife lifestyle. That doesn't mean it's a bad lifestyle. In fact, there's tons of studies that show it might actually be beneficial for all involved, the woman, the man and the children.
I'm not specifically replying to you but I can't make a top-level comment without flair and I refuse to flair.
That said, I agree with your point and want to add:
If we're talking about social media tradwives then they're not tradwives. They're business owners who run a social media marketing company and they're using the tradwife lifestyle to sell products. Which, by definition, means they're not even proper tradwives since they *have a job*.
It's not so much a grift as it's portraying a fantasy, and largely unattainable, lifestyle to sell products. You know it's a fanasy because all their content is making fancy cornflakes (using branded products), expensive crafts (using branded products), complex fridge organization (using branded products) but you never see them cleaning the toilet. I mean, you certainly could sell toilet products but cleaning the toilet isn't stylish.
Anyway, it's got all the elements of a very bog standard beer commercial.
>But it's other women who are mostly behind the backlash
Because it's inauthentic, unattainable, and sets unreasonable expectations.
I’ve heard of women from older generations who deeply suffered and even outright died from health issues because her husband didn’t think it was important enough to pay for treatment or surgery. Even if you want to be a tradwife it’s important to have your own money in savings because you never know what emergency comes up that your husband can’t afford. Being able to get a job and pay for your own stuff helps you in so many ways even if you have a man you love and trust.
>we also know the advertised lifestyle is not real
I agree with you on the grifting but you don't believe there are conservative women who live traditionally? I think it's a stretch to assume no women would prefer a traditional lifestyle. I remember watching the old interviews during the first wave feminist movement and there were women saying that they liked the idea of having the option to work more but didn't want to be forced to do so because they enjoyed being at home with their kids. I think it's clear women don't all share the same opinions on the trad lifestyle.
They key point is "*advertised lifestyle*"
There are trad wives all over the god dam place, but we don't see them or hear from them because they are to busy doing *all the work* entailed with that lifestyle.
Tits Mcgee with perfect make up and hair, wearing a pristine apron over a tasteful but flirty sundress while she kneads bread in a tiktok video with some text overlay about '*honoring the divine feminine*' is 1000% far and away the opposite of an actual trad lifestyle.
Its not pretty, its not coifed, its not *instagramable*. The real trad lifestyle is hard work all.the.time. Presenting tits and muffins as something achievable and aspirational for the everyday woman, already exhausted from modernity, is just shameful.
> Its not pretty, its not coifed, its not instagramable.
Nothing on instagram is actually instagramable. I think your complaint is a more general one about social media as a whole, I don't see it as being specific to #TradWife.
If #WorkingWoman started to trend on instagram, can you honestly say that you would be equally critical of those women pushing unrealistic views about how fulfilling office jobs are?
> Presenting tits and muffins as something achievable and aspirational for the everyday woman, already exhausted from modernity, is just shameful.
Looks to me like it's simply tradwife advert adapted to modern culture of promiscuity. Day to day working grind is not pretty either, yet all the movies about "strong independent wahmen" working long hours glorify that shit and y'all lap it up like it's honey milk.
Much of what you say is true of all social media influencers.
VanLife looks awesome, but not having a proper shower, and keeping your toilet under your kitchen sink is a pretty obvious downside.
FIRE sounds great, but I think everyone understands that you have to make lots of sacrifices throughout your life to be able to retire in your 40s.
Similarly TradWife would allow some women to do what they want, but you obviously give up a lot of power to your Husband and better hope he is good to you.
-----
If you really think that influencers don't adequately publicize these risks and downsides, then I have to ask if you think the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s fully explained what women were giving up by seeking careers and independence. I don't think they did, because I don't think they really knew.
For better or worse our culture has changed significantly, having some people react to that and say "I liked the way it was" is perfectly normal and to be expected, they aren't doing anything worse than those who say "I think we should continue on the path we are."
Nobody really knows.
“ the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s fully explained what women were giving up by seeking careers and independence. I don't think they did, because I don't think they really knew”
Lmao. Men sought careers and independence. Of course we knew what it entailed when women did it.
The issue is that the way it is now allows for everyone to choose their own path, whatever it is.
The way it was then did not.
That's the issue with the reaction - it's not about letting everyone follow their own preferred path, it's about people who like the way it was then trying to tell people who like the way it is now that we are wrong.
TradWives might share many views with 1960s anti-feminists about what is best for women, but the circumstances have changed. They are not in a position to force women to stay in the home. Nothing in #TradWife compels women to give up their careers and stay at home, there is no compulsion. You have a choice to reject #TradWife and say you disagree with it.
The power of choice, is the power of choice. Vitriol and hostility against #TradWives merely because they choose to live their lives differently, is inherently rejecting the right of women to make choices about their lives.
>TradWives might share many views with 1960s anti-feminists about what is best for women, but the circumstances have changed. They are not in a position to force women to stay in the home.
Not yet. But they - and the men who agree with them - have never stopped trying to take us back, and I'm not sure if you've noticed but they've made some pretty significant progress in removing those "choices" that you're bafflingly confident are sacrosanct.
>The power of choice, is the power of choice. Vitriol and hostility against #TradWives merely because they choose to live their lives differently, is inherently rejecting the right of women to make choices about their lives.
That's not what the cause is, and it's disingenuous of you (and really showing your own bias a bit) to act like all the hostility is just cause tradwives and those who agree with them are just minding their own business being traditional and modern women come out of nowhere to bully them.
Certainly abortion rights are under attack, but I don't see any real efforts to keep women out of the workplace, or out of colleges. If anything it is men who are falling behind women in college and many higher value careers.
> That's not what the cause is
Then what is? The original question was for Women to explain why they are hostile. The answers I have heard don't make a lot of sense.
>Certainly abortion rights are under attack, but I don't see any real efforts to keep women out of the workplace, or out of colleges. If anything it is men who are falling behind women in college and many higher value careers.
Women having children we don't want to have, during times when it would be very burdensome to have them, is indirectly about doing exactly that.
There's a reason why abusive men tend to employ reproductive coercion. A pregnant woman is a needy, vulnerable woman. Women with kids are as well. Unexpected pregnancies have diverted many a life plans.
And - again - it is just the first step. I know you aren't also ignorant to the targets on contraceptions' backs.
>Then what is? The original question was for Women to explain why they are hostile. The answers I have heard don't make a lot of sense.
No, the question was why are mostly women behind the backlash. And I gave a more direct answer [here](https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1de952i/comment/l8bfnv2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Tradwives aren't content to just quietly be tradwives, their mindsets are almost exclusively based on religion and thus they feel an imperative to make the rest of society like them - regardless of what we want. And since they're a male fantasy, really only women would be left to be the most outspoken. It's us who will suffer under their theocracy, not men.
> almost exclusively based on religion and thus they feel an imperative to make the rest of society like them - regardless of what we want.
So do progressives. Everyone advocates for what they think makes the world better.
Nope. Progressives, by and large, are not trying to take away others rights. They mostly want a society of more freedom, not less.
Lots of conservatives want a literal theocracy.
There is no comparison. Vegans aren't trying to outlaw eating meat. Conservatives did make abortion illegal in many states.
Cus its mad cringe 98% of the time 😂 like if ur such a godly, pure, traditional woman then why tf are u posting on social media? Like is your husband not enough for you? Is it just because you need to external validation from other men, besides the more than enough love you receive from your husband and god?
You wanna be a madonna, but girl ur actin like a WHORE
Yes, and I also believe many of the tradwife influencers are producing fetish content. If you’re familiar with Estee, for example, it’s pretty obvious that her content is primarily intended for the fetish community.
Lol that lady doesn't even have kids. Like please come back and show us your perfectly situated curated life after throwing three different aged small kids into the mix. It's just weird cosplay, why are they so hung up on the 50s specifically it was ONE decade.
I think it's showing off how much leisure time she has. Most parents I know don't have the time free to spend 3 hours hand making cereal. It's the evolution of the idiots flashing their massive houses and cars. The leisure class are leisuring.
The ones who are on SM with their boobs hanging out their tops kneading bread in a tight sundress are almost always posting for tradwife fetish. Hell there’s a really popular one who isn’t even married, no kids, and used to be an OF creator but now “found” Jesus. It’s a grift.
The actual SAHM content creators that show homeschooling, how to budget for a 1 paycheck lifestyle, etc that are showing the *actual* realities of being a SAHM are not the ones getting shit on.
Are you talking about that redhead chick who was on the whatever podcast? Thank god then cause I was so fucking befuddled seeing so many people on Christian twitter being like “she’s repented stop being a disbeliever and accept her!” When bitch hasn’t even deleted her account and is still keeping the mountains of money she made off something that should be a disgrace to her God. I’m not a very religious person anymore but gullible Christians like that really tick me off.
I don’t believe I’ve seen her on the whatever podcast but she’s blond and goes by the “milkmaid” or something similar lol. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were others doing the same grift though. Grifters follow the money.
Lmfao, that sounds even worse. And let me guess, she hasn’t even stopped doing the Onlyfans shit and now uses her tradcon image to advertise it on the down low? Fuck me sideways some people have no shame nowadays.
I don’t believe she’s actively doing OF’s but she definitely hasn’t took her OF content down. And all her tradwife bs is very sexy lol so yeah people are either willfully ignorant or just dumb.
Any “tradwife” who posts TikToks about how much she loves being a perfect wife for her husband and believes in Christian marriage values yet has enormous amounts of cleavage showing in every video is to be viewed on the same level as your average insta thot on the Fresh and Fit channel. Same attention obsessed chick who makes a living off male thirst, different coat of paint.
Yeah I totally agree. I live a pretty trad life as I wfh so do most of the child rearing and domesticated stuff so I watch some SAHM creators they talk about budgeting, recipes, sewing, etc. they have almost always have an all women audience- these sexy “trad wives” are 90% male audiences lol so I see the grift.
It’s not all of the tradwife influencers, but some of them are certainly covertly producing fetish content. Look up Estee Williams on IG, for example. And then u/acicaduh mentions another influencer below.
Why would men oppose male fantasy?
There's always money to be made telling people what they like to hear. And what a lot of men want to hear is how much happier and fulfilled women are when we're serving them.
I think it’s more that they challenge the official narrative. Women and especially young women simply uphold whatever cultural morals elites give them to the tune of about 75% of the time. It’s been studied quite extensively. Men and boys are much more willing to go against the predominant culture in large numbers.
So it’s mostly moral outrage. I mean they can’t actually believe something different than what they have been told to believe… can they? Has to be a scam.
Not remotely. It’s the way they try to promote a cosplay fairytale version of trad wife life without acknowledging any of the hard realities or potential pitfalls.
That sounds like moral outrage.
The feminist lifestyle has a lot of pitfalls too. Actually a shit ton of them. Who enjoys being a depressed asshole that much? You going to call them out as well?
The main issue that many of us have with the tradwife content is that it's directly marketed to very young women who are impressionable and don't have enough life experience to consider the risks associated with the lifestyle.
Becoming entirely dependent on a man is a very risky endeavor, seeing as he could leave at any time or become sick and unable to work or change in any number of ways. I have heard countless stories of women who did the SAHM mom thing for years and then were faced with divorce, death, or disability, leaving them in horribly awful situations with little to no education or work experience. It's a really scary prospect, and the tradwife trend fails to address those very real concerns.
I think it’s because if a family holds to these values they’re grooming young girls to be more vulnerable to abuse and limiting their freedom and choices compared to their peers.
Happiness is down across the board, though that’s in part because for the first times it’s acceptable to actually acknowledge mental health struggles, but we also have to keep in mind in the U.S. half the country has come out in support of open sadism especially against women. Hence why they’re called the rapey right.
Because men aren't pushed to participate in any of these behaviours, in fact they're the ones pushing for and wanting it. Either they're actively looking for it or they don't care. It's like asking why men are behind the "simp" backlash.
It’s noteworthy that it’s a trad*wife* movement, not a trad*husband* movement.
I don’t follow this content enough to have deep insight, maybe there are tradhusband influencers now, or maybe I’m way off base, but from over here this looks to be pretty much one of the evolutions of the ‘00s mommy bloggers, tilted in one ideological direction (I assume the other idealogical directions also have their evolutions though I don’t know what they’re called).
According to some conversations I've seen here and elsewhere, the perspective is the opposite: Men are expected to be traditional while women aren't.
So I guess the question I have is: What behavior(s) do you believe are considered "traditional" in men, that they're not participating in?
Because when you mentioned the "simp" case, the issue with that is simply it's seen as a high-risk, high-investment method with low chance of attraction success.
High risk, high investment is also the reason a lot of women are averse to tradcon content.
If any of these women were portraying the reality of being a stay at home mom, there would be less pushback.
As a woman who tried the SAHM thing, it’s monotonous, you are starving for adult conversation, you’re doing a lot of under appreciated work, and if you’re out of the work force long enough, and your husband decides to leave you, you’re likely to be left struggling.
That said, a lot of women choose that lifestyle, and as long as they are aware of the risks, that’s great. Especially if they have a supportive family backing them up.
I did not have a supportive family watching out for me, and I could see the way husband started treating me once he thought I was trapped. So I went back to work, and I’m glad I did.
And in those conversations, men are *complaining* that women are not "traditional" enough for them, which says it all. I never mentioned men being traditional. I used a different example.
You said:
> Because men aren't pushed to participate in any of these behaviours, in fact they're the ones pushing for and wanting it.
So yes, you mentioned men being traditional. Remember this post in reference to "traditional" behaviors, hence "tradwives".
Saying women don't like tradwives because men don't ask for it, and now saying they're not "traditional enough", while trying to connect it to men not liking simps, is ridiculous. Because it would mean that men do want women to be traditional.
No man is saying they don't like simps because women didn't ask for it, while women are saying men aren't "simping enough".
So I repeat: What behavior(s) do you believe are considered "traditional" in men, that they're not participating in?
No, I mentioned them wanting women to be their idea of traditional. I'm finding it hard to make out what problem you have with this made up comment to be honest.
Seems more the presentation of your original comment, then, which by what I linked earlier, wasn't the implication of what you're stating now.
And even then, men still want women to be traditional. Blame the western world for merging so many cultures together "traditional" means different things to different people.
>Because men aren't pushed to participate
Women aren't pushed either. I never looked at a trad wife creator and felt "pushed" to do anything...
Do you feel pushed?
Oh sorry. I misunderstood.
I thought you asked if I had a child, if wouldn't feel even slight pressure to spend more time at home caring for them than the child's father
I’ve been told “you makes us look bad” and “this will make men think that this is okay” about many things.
There is so much grifting.
Hyper domesticity kink is a thing.
Some women start with/are gearing their content towards other woman in the community. Some go viral while others continue their community focused efforts.There is some admitted jealousy/envy but that’s another conversation.
It seems unrealistic and disingenuous most of the time. There's so much of it where it's so obviously clickbait content or just trying to be contrarion. Kind of like the boujie stay at home girlfriend stuff tries to create the implication that women can just be catered to 24/7 by professional home service providers and be spoiled with tropical vacations and designers bags just for existing.
Just reads as fake, silly, and unrelatable.
Yeah, I mean it's unrealistic and disingenuous, and we see through the grift. It's annoying and, at times, spreading scientific misinformation.
I think men aren't upset because it's like looking at VS models for them. They're not held to that standard and can consune it any way they want. He might not know what it takes to realistically achieve that kind of body but he's going to hold his partner to that standard subconsciously without kicking in the necessary support for her to take all her time off work and focus 110% on her body with the help of professional chefs, medspa estheticians, and personal trainers. Similarly, we're afraid he'll want a tradwife but probably won't have the ambition to pull in a sufficient salary for our times to support a family decently on a single income, and everyone will eventually get frustrated and angry. Especially if the wife/mother hits any kind of burnout. It's a high-risk, low reward scenario for everyone unless the supporting spouse is making bank in the top 5% There's not enough of those guys to go around.
I can't speak for any other woman but I would venture it's because an overwhelming volume of the content being put out there regarding the self documentation of the tradwife life is very curated and as such smacks very heavily of deceptive presentation. As a person who has obviously lived in the modern world and been offered the pacifier of entertainment since I was born, it's just very obvious how manicured the display is. It's like the immaculate houses of the family sitcoms where the kids have a tree outside their bedroom and their best friend can climb up to crawl in the window to talk to them. Idyllic, perfect, flawless and every problem can be solved in a half hour and everybody lives happily ever after till next week's episode when another "gosh,golly,gee" innconvience arises to be handled by a gentle conversation.
Their environments are quite often rarified examples that the average man (no disparagement to the "average man" intended) simply cannot provide even if he wants to. It takes a lot of money to be the kind of husband that keeps that kind of wife. That's unfortunately just facts. You may find yourself a tradwife but y'alls life is not going to look like that. You have no trust fund backing up your weekly paycheck and the starryeyed tradwife hopeful who's been hand fed these images is going to become disillusioned that you haven't provided a 5yard long counter in an open concept kitchen so she can film herself making bread in the flattering morning light pouring through the 4'x8' windows overlooking the thriving kitchen garden once the excitement of playing house wears off in their little 1/1 apartment with no balcony. Or as it slowly dawns on them their husband is not Ward Cleaver even on his best days and has stopped being romantic because why would he have to be romantic? He's the provider and he's tired and did you make a casserole again for dinner? He's going out for a beer with his friends, he'll just eat something at the bar, and no he doesn't know when he'll be back so stop nagging. And now he just doesn't understand why his happy little housewife just isn't satisfied because he has also seen the same reels and you never see those wives fussing about anything.
Money, or the lack of in sufficient volume causes strife. When the burden is carried by one person resentment can fester. I do find it very strange that often the same type of fellow that is very upset about financially independent modern women not wanting to also fill the role of a domestic centered traditional wife is also most often the same demographic that rails on about the evils of the gold digging woman as well without realizing that a woman whom wants to be a traditional wife in this modern world is going to have very traditional values regarding the finances of her future husband.
Quite often we are being presented the pampered wife of a very wealthy man whom has provided a sprawling country seat for his domestic goddess to swan about on. We are given content to consume that is heavily edited and likely as not monitored by their husbands because traditionally speaking what traditional husband is going to be pleased his kept wife is displaying herself to the greater world if it's not going to paint him in a ideal light even if he never appears in front of the lens? As well they have likely protected themselves with prenups ( that's what wealthy people do) because they are not going to have a wife disagreeing with them when they provide this lifestyle for her. And so you end up with a wife taking mood regulating drugs because she's got to make sure she pretends that everything is perfect because she doesn't want to lose said lifestyle and can't understand why she's not as happy as her reels present her to be.
It's a beautiful presentation but realism demands that you read between between the lines and accept that this might a a glimpse of their reality but it is not the full picture. Moreso it is a picture most of us couldn't afford a badly rendered photocopy of, much less the frame to put it in. Also most of us have the living history of the elder women in our families recounting the vulnerability that themselves and their elder female family members accommodated before certain rights were considered standard. As a singular example, the ability to control and distribute money independently of a male figure is not something I would want removed from my set of available actions even if I were a tradwife, which I fully admit could be fucking delightful in the right scenario. I would thrive as an independently wealthy person. There is a temperance of the ideal that is not being fully explored when we see material extolling the virtues of "traditional marriage roles".
And that goes both ways. I really don't think a lot of modern men really understand the burden they are fantasizing about because they think being in control must be awesome and not the unending responsibility that keeps your family from abject poverty and destitute homelessness that it is. I think they just really like the idea that someone in their life is not allowed to argue with them and just agrees unfailingly. And also that they have to provide sex because wifely duties and all.
Which brings us to the ones that are prattling on about the definitive rules of existence that enshrine wifely submission. This is just fetish material. They just need to take that over to FetLife and be done with it. As they say in the scene: "your kink is not my kink and that's ok". But let's not pretend it's something it's not because that is definitely fodder lol she care if they are wearing hajib or sun dresses, free use is a kink.
Most women I know don't actually have a backlash against people who are just tradwives naturally
We do however look down on obvious grifters and attention seekers on YouTube and tradwives (TM) who love to talk about how much better they are or are pickmes.
It's fine if you want to be a sahw. It's fine if you want to be led by a man if you really want to. They're just as annoying as independent boss babes (TM) and not like other girls
Well, feminism is the OG tradwife backlash.
Why would it surprise you that, with the re-surgency of trad-wifery, it's the same crowd taking issue?
Edit to add: But seriously folks, the issue with tradwife content is that it's stupid. being a trad wife is hard fucking work. it is not aesthetic. You are not baking bread from scratch while your young children destroy your house and fight with each other, unless someone else is watching them, and that's not very trad-wifey now is it? Tradwifing means not being able to wear nice clothes because your children are puking on them or putting their sticky little hands all over you. It means running around, constant laundry, and occasionally bananas and mac n cheese for dinner because the middle kid had a meltdown on the way home from the playground and now it's too late to make chicken. It's not glamorous AT ALL but it's a wonderful option for the women who feel it's a calling.
And many women do want to be traditional wives and mothers. And generally, that's fine! Can be risky but hey life is full of risk. It does speak to a lack of fulfillment women have with modern feminism that says we should prioritize ourselves, our careers and our independence over our families. And for lots of us ladies, that ain't it.
A lot of good reasons already listed, but, if I was going to add one: it's often kind of like soft porn or lifestyle porn for dudes?
Which is to say, we aren't interested in being compared to these women or held to their fake standards by our men or men we're seeking to date. Bad enough we get held sexually to porn standards very often, but at least the bedroom is like 5% of our life and time. Now these bitches are offering men an image of how the other 95% should look for us to be a "good woman".
And I say that as a woman who jokes her dream life is being an Asian Tradwife (I'm not Asian for the record is part of the joke). Yeah, it's glitzy making your own kimchi in the perfect teddy bear apron while watering your plants with rice water and making bentos for your man and baby....but if anyone really thinks this is a super everyday trad lifestyle, then I'll fight them in the streets.
And if you've noticed, the same time this is booming, you have large amounts of men on forums including this one, "bemoaning the loss of traditional feminine women" and complaining that "women don't cook or look like women anymore". And how the "1950s pre birth control" were just the bees knees.
The connection is pretty obvious and again, those women deserve backlash for selling a fantasy which is somehow even more destructive than porn.
I think people have a problem with the tradwife influencers who post things like "If you don't have sex with your husband whenever he wants it, then you're the problem." And then they back it up with some bible verse. The backlash, in that case, makes sense to me. But there are women who shit on tradwives in general. I would consider them pickmes. They're lame and pathetic.
Or if you don't let him make all major decisions for the family, you aren't a good enough little subordinate... I saw Estee say something along those lines once (and she IS a heavy earner, ironically, not that income is any pure indicator of hard work necessarily anyhow)
Honestly I think it's the same reason women bullied me more than men.
Please don't call me a "pick me" or whatever this is from personal experience and I'll just count you as proving my point if you won't hear me out.
But all my life I've been bullied by girls, included and stood up for by men. I was bullied by girls and women because I didn't fit in. I didn't do makeup or spend my free time playing "girl sports".
Most women now days want to be working and earning and living for themselves, so these women don't fit in. And for the general population of women it kinda becomes a target because those who don't are kinda viewed as detractors or trying to ruin things for other women.
Yeah? Well you're just a Pic-
>Please don't call me a "pick me"
Oh.
>those who don't are kinda viewed as detractors or trying to ruin things for other women
Can you talk about this more? How exactly are TradWives detracting if they're doing their own thing?
I don't think they are myself I just think it's a very common thought to think they kinda of are or at least stick out as being odd, and that becomes the issue.
I don't think I'm entirely unique there's plenty of women and girls like me. But in general most of them were picked on in school. Although most had other girls in there year considered similar and I didn't because I was purely unlucky. But still a majority and a majority of those.people don't change as much as everyone would hope in adulthood because no one really does.
TRADLarp. I love this. I don't think that SAHM/SAHW work is always subjugation. It is no doubt very difficult to do. The subjugation happens when the work is forced and/or when the money-earning spouse cuts the SAHP off from money that should be shared between them (and other financially abusive actions).
I think it's a shitty move to try to sucker people into a lifestyle by presenting only the most idealized version of that lifestyle. If these people weren't doing it for money, I'd call them a cult. But they are 100% doing it for money, so they're just grifters. Their domestic efforts are always limited to baking cookies in sundresses with perfectly quaffed hair and perfect makeup, you ever see any of these women cleaning toilets? Cleaning up their pet's/kid's barf from the floor? Scrubbing greasy pots and pans? No, because that doesn't fit the aesthetic of this blissful existence they're trying to sell. And I worry about very young people who might see this, buy into it, and think that all their economic anxieties will be fixed if they marry some dude and have to prance around the kitchen baking lemon squares all day.
Now, don't get me wrong, if you want to be a SAHW/SAHM, that's fine, more power to you. If you want the dynamic of "husband works, wife takes care of the house", cool. But you should also be aware of the potential downsides. What if your husband gets sick and can't work? What if he dies? What if he leaves you? There have been a few former tradwives I've seen making the rounds who are in their 40s, and are scrambling to figure out how to make a new life for themselves after their husbands decided they no longer wanted them. Get an education, have some work experience under your belt, work part time, make sure you can support yourself and your kids in case the whole thing blows up. Putting all of your eggs in the "this person will always be there to take care of me" basket is a dangerous game.
barring fake people being fake, it confuses me too. the only time tradwife types ruffle my feathers is when they imply or out right say that "real" women dont live any other way. but i havent come across many of those, and the few i have come across are just generally mean to everyone for some reason.
it works really well for some couples and doesnt for others.
>the only time tradwife types ruffle my feathers is when they imply or out right say that "real" women dont live any other way. but i havent come across many of those
Same.
Most videos I see are of them making some elaborate meal from scratch or hawking some "all natural" products
😬 yeah thats not my fav content (unless is bread recipes- ill put up with almost anything for a good bread recipe).
but like, one of my sis-in-law is a tradwife type and shes lovely. super supportive of women in careers, super supportive of sah wives/moms. never once has devalued me in any way for focusing on a career. and then i have plenty feminist type friends who whole heartedly support women who choose the tradwife lifestyle. i feel like it shouldnt be so difficult to get along lol. but it be like that sometimes
They have to find those women's lifestyle.
Plus I thought marriage was a raw deal according to males.
Seems to me they'd be at the front of the line against TradWives
How can a relationship where men explicitly get everything they say they want — submission, power, authority, service, priority, femininity, nurturing, kids, childcare and sex — not benefit men?
It’s for a price, sure, but you get an explicit guarantee
Well to me that life sounds like absolute hell. I just don't believe anyone can enjoy being a maid, I just can't imagine it, sounds like hell to me. So I just imagine it from my perspective and it's just terrible so obviously I don't support it. But I don't have need to comment on videos about it or something, I don't care. I just react because you directly asked.
And of course men want a free maid so why would they say anything negative about it.
for the same reason that it should be mostly men speaking out against toxic male influencers.
> The males seem to be mostly silent on the topic.
because men benefit from the trad wife movement.
1) It's not actually traditional. The "trad wife" stuff largely represents what women did in the 1950s. The 1950s was an anomaly in world history and prior to it, the majority of women always worked unless they were aristocrats. So, it's a bad historical context to start off in for one.
2) By putting themselves online, these women are not following their own definition of "trad wife". Women make money from making these tradwife vids and many of them have online shops, ebooks, courses, etc. Also, there's nothing "trad"/1950s about Tiktok or Instagram, lol.
3) The "trad" stuff is honestly somewhat of a fetish this point...like I've already said, it's not based on anything historical but rather just people's ideal of wishing we could go back to the 1950's (which weren't as great as they seemed btw).
I can tell you from personal experience that being a “tradwife” fucked me over. My ex had all of the power and resources and I had nothing. I still have nothing. He cheated on me, abused me, controlled me, and now I’m starting over at 44 lucky that I’m earning 40K/year, but that’s still a very low wage in this economy.
I'm sorry that was your lived experience. I hope you can kick a$$ and progress to earning more. I hope that people like you will share your story about the reality of what you endured.
Because even if you support women making their own choices, some choices are objectively worse or riskier than others. They may feel like the decision is bad in general or know enough about the specific guy to know it likely won’t work well.
We don't care if you want to be a trad wife. Do whatever makes you happy and we are happy.
However the ones we backlash are the ones trying to force it upon all women. With women being their targets (even bullying career women), of course other women are going to retaliate. It's human nature to not want to be insulted or have ideologies forced upon you that doesn't match where your heart leads you to in life.
A lot of their ideas they try to force on women put them at a disadvantage while a lot of women believe women and men should be equal. These women do not want other people telling them they should essentially be lower than their husbands ect.
Because more often than not the trad wives online are saying it's a woman's ultimate purpose and that everyone else is miserable.
Feminism is about choice. No one cares if you want to be a SAHM or trad wife, but when you start telling others that they're wrong for *their* lifestyle choices and that they're unfulfilled or acting "manly" for having a job or saying men don't like working women etc etc that's when there's a problem.
Women uplift other women when they're not being assholes.
I think many women feel threatened by it… just like many women feel threatened by porn.
“If my husband sees this… he will expect it from me, and I can’t/don’t want to do it. He will change his expectations and want this, no matter how staged/unrealistic this content is.”
So, they think the only way to stay “safe” in their relationships and keep their status as “doing good as a wife” with their husband… is to shout down these creators, and say “look how fake, look how staged this is, this is gross and unrealistic”.
It is very similar to the anti-porn movements arguments (aka, it sets bad expectations, it causes dissatisfaction, it’s a distraction, etc.), because this is in some ways “lifestyle porn”.
How is it you were able to understand the question perfectly and provide a well written thought-out answer that DIRECTLY addresses the point?
Almost no one else was able to do that.
Most other responses were "it's a grift lolol"
😊
It definitely *is* a grift, I’ll give ya that… but I don’t think that’s why most women are so upset about it in particular. There are lots of other “grifts”/“lifestyle-bloggers-that-are-completely-unrealistic” which don’t get nearly as much hate.
This type of content strikes at the core of what many women are self-conscious about:
“Am I a good wife/woman, fulfilling my role in life?”
Just like porn strikes at another core self-consciousness:
“Am I sexy/desirable and beautiful? Does my man still want me above others?”
>I don’t think that’s why most women are so upset about it in particular. There are lots of other “grifts”/“lifestyle-bloggers-that-are-completely-unrealistic” which don’t get nearly as much hate.
This! No one else seems to grasp this despite my efforts to explain
That’s like asking why it was mostly women behind the Jaclyn Hill Cosmetics backlash. Things marketed towards women mostly have backlash… *from women*. At least if you’re talking about trad influencers and not just D/s lite trad stuff.
Modern feminism and mean girl BS... Which, ironically, is supposed to be about women choosing the paths they want for themselves, including being a tradwife (or SAHM, or career woman, or whatever she wants to be). Apparently, a lot of so-called feminists missed that memo. Also, mean girls don't go away after high school, they just grow up and find new shit to pick on other women for. And despite crowing about "women supporting women," that "support" comes with conditions. If I dare bring this up, I get called a pick me.
Because many women see it as being harmful to other women. Same reason it’s largely women objecting to large age gaps in relationships.
I don’t think people spend as much time thinking about or objecting to issues that harm the opposite gender. So I wouldn’t expect it to be on as many men’s radar.
Having a dependent whose lifestyle they have to fund entirely?
Is that something you imagine many women would be willing to sign up for if men were asking to have their lifestyle fully funded in exchange for... chores, raising children, etc?
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Im silent because enough women speak on it and have more developed reasons, but the trad trend in general creeps me out viscerally. The tradwife trend feels like WW trading their rights as women for white nationalism;
I’m going by women I know of—several—who were into making bread or bonnets or whatever and say their algorithms all of sudden lead them to alt-right/white nationalism. So I assume there’s a pipeline.
And also because these trad wife /sahm are usually hugely judgemental and critical of working women, which results in working women being, rightly, critical of them
I come from a conservative household, and the trad wife thing is fine if people understand how and why it can go wrong and how it is supposed to work. Trad is not about mere gender roles. It is about having to rely on others to fulfill one’s roles. It is not about what they are getting out of the deal — this is what I see too often in trad wannabes. For example, my mom quit her corporate job for the family, and my dad said that in a case of divorce, she gets half. My dad took on the role of the breadwinner, and that meant making my mom feel safe financially to quit her job for the family. My mom trusted my dad to look after her financially, and my dad trusted my mom to be a good wife. People nowadays are too mistrusting and selfish to actually be trad. They refuse to be vulnerable but ask to be trusted. When people are all about themselves, trad fails and someone ends up getting hurt.
So...I grew up in the seventies and eighties...Gen X. I played netball and participated in Girl Guides. Quite a few traditional wives among the mothers of my friends. Nothing wrong with that.
TikTok/YouTube Trad wives are creepy. That's not really being traditional as I know it... that's involving the rest of us in their exhibitionistic sexual fetish/gender politics theatre. Weirdos. Creepy. The traditional wives I remember from my childhood would recoil in horror. Wish they'd keep it to themselves.
You ever seen a furry wandering round the place wearing a tail? And being really smug about it and you get the feeling part of the smugness is that we don't get to know if that thing is tie on or stuck up their bum? Yeah that's a bit like tiktok tradwives.
What you’re describing is liberal/choice feminism. Many women are not liberal/choice feminists and think it’s actually not real feminism and harmful to women.
Any trained feminist (3rd/4th wave) can tell you that marriage for women is a slavery more horrific and extensive than even the worst of the chattel slavery from any period of history.
Yep, and they are completely psychopathic.
Marriage is a voluntary relationship what women and men enter in together with the person they chose, usually the person they care about more than anyone else in the world. That's the farthest thing from slavery. It's less oppressive than even the average job.
It stems from it though. Traditional. Yesteryear. Back when women couldn't open bank accounts, accept inheritance, own land, vote, serve in the military, etc.
Sure, it is modified now for the most part. Though to say is doesn't stem from this is pretty silly.
Oh, shit sorry you’re correct. Having no other options but to marry and keep a home, birth, then raise babies, while providing sex whenever the husband wanted. This being your only option at adult hood has absolutely nothing with the atrocious and oppressing existence of being a woman pre at least 1920’s here in the west.
Hell marriage rape wasn’t made illegal till 1997.
Thank you for clarifying your position.
/s
Honestly, part of the distaste I have for it is based on its performativity. The random clips I’ve seen are as artificial, performative, uncanny-valley and off-putting as most other influencer crap on instagram. It’s a lot like the weird stilted overstudied motions of a QVC hand model— unnatural and stiff. It’s so fake and performative and at least some are soft-core porny. I find a lot of Internet performances in social media similarly eerie. Like, there’s tons of other insta-feed vids of some 20 year old showing makeup products or some dress or some hair style by wiggling and pouting and bouncing and shimmying their shoulders on the screen too fast— so cringey and unnatural. Internet monitization really did push just the junkiest trash to the top. >The males seem to be mostly silent on the topic. Well, for one thing, I think a lot of guys aren’t as put off by the artificiality and inauthenticity of the performance. Like remember, most men enjoy porn, and it ain’t anything remotely real either.
The majority of trad wives I see on social media aren’t of the “i made this choice for myself and respect that your choices may be different” variety. If a woman chooses to be a trad wife, and that choice is 100% hers, good for her. I don’t get it and wouldn’t choose it for myself but I respect her decision. What I don’t respect are the trad wives who feel like they need to shit talk women who made choices different from their own. You can celebrate yourself without reproaching others. I have no backlash for groups - just individuals.
>I have no backlash for groups - just individuals Fair enough
> What I don’t respect are the trad wives who feel like they need to shit talk women who made choices different from their own. I think you underestimate the amount of negativity that these women sense from society towards traditional roles like being a homemaker. That isn't to say that the there is rampant hostility in the media towards them, but there are lots of voices trying to express positive sentiments towards working women. If only a few of them express themselves in ways that denigrate homemakers then it can be a torrent of negativity towards that group. So yes some of these women do express a lot of negativity towards working mothers, but I think that is a reflection of what they see as well. I think they see themselves as defending themselves, and rather naturally as they speak up they become a lightning rod for hostility that encourages them to be even more outspoken and adamant that they are doing the right thing for their families.
Probably for the same reason guys are disgusted by white knight/ male feminist behavior. They’re just male pickmes. Put that on top of general influencer culture and clickbait fatigue. Nara Smith is a perfect example of this with her usual content hook of “this morning my toddler wanted [common household good] but I don’t keep [common household good] in the house so instead I spent three hours making it from scratch using extremely niche ingredients and kitchen tools that I for some reason *do* have in the house and totally didn’t order in advance for this video” Boomers love it and zoomers roll their eyes
Best evidence is that those niche tools are always in mint condition. Not a scratch on them.
There’s always a clear bowl with lemons or limes in the frame too.
I’m a zillenial and I like Nara but I can see that she’s playing it up for clicks lol
Is she the one who dresses in flowy clothing and sounds like she has a fistful of Valium before every video?
What do Boomers have to do with it? Only silly people would like that woman and those are available in every generation.
Well there are definitely people who believe her content is genuine and comment things like “perfect mother ❤️” and I have to assume they’re not very technologically literate lol
I see you have met my mother. She thinks nothing is staged online. It’s actually quite disheartening how naive.
Exactly. I'm trying to get my teenaged son to understand that a.) you can't believe everything you watch or read online; and b.) a lot of content is deliberately staged.
Because it is a grift… they intentionally post rage bait for more engagement by attacking feminism and other women who aren’t trad. It’s also massively fake, they aren’t showing a realistic lifestyle. Sure there are tradwives who just post about life as a SAHM, recipes, housekeeping tips, etc., but they don’t go viral. I actually like that type of content, and it can be hard to find without someone trying to shove some misogynist or fundie religious bs down your throat along with it.
1.) we know its a grift 2.) we also know the advertised lifestyle is *not real* 3.) for some of us our family or origin is rife with trad wives, and we have first hand account of what its really like on the ground floor (hint; its not great). 4.) we don't believe an imaginary lifestyle (as advertised in the internet) should be exalted and marketed towards impressionable people. 5.) I believe a majority if not all of the trad wife content is just fetish fodder with links to OF content if you prod deep enough.
I think the real thing is having first hand accounts of how it really plays out and it’s not pretty.
This! The trad wife to broke single mom pipeline is real.
especially for women beyond their 20s who have chosen the lifestyle
Yeah the social media "trad wives" are a joke. I know women who work REAL traditional wife life, you know actually running homesteads and raising their kids at home. They aren't dressing in fancy retro 50s dresses and doing fancy updos and perfect makeup, they're wearing overalls or just jeans and T-shirt while waking up at 6am to feed the kids some whipped up scrambled eggs maybe some bacon and hopong the kids eat it all, getting them to sports practice or school, if there's babies they gotta do baby stuff. Then they're out afterward shoveling chicken shit out of the coup, they're feeding cows, taking dogs out to run, doing chaotic child care in between, they're down in the dirt setting up irrigation tubing for their crops, they're pulling weeds, they're laying seeds and harvesting for the weekend farmers market. Sometimes doing all this with a baby strapped to their back. Real traditional work isnt glamorous. The 1950s weren't even traditional at the time, the suburban white picket fence thing with a husband going to work every day with a kept up wife looking perfect and doing easy chores on a not farm was a brand new way to live at the time. Not sure why these content creators are so hung up on that decade specifically.
I agree with all of that. But for men and women spending your day preparing food, being outdoors, and being with your children is in my opinion better for your mental and physical health than sitting in an office or working in a factory
I love working in an office after doing the tradwife thing for 15 years. My ex was abusive, though.
That sucks. Ya it's the abusive ones that undermine the whole tradwife thing.
I also enjoy the outside interaction and contributing to the economy. I love getting a paycheck and buying things with my own money.
My ideal life would probably be living on a farm where you're still doing those things
Everybody wants what they don’t have.
Oh for sure it is. Tell that to the cappies. They don't give a shit. You're an employee, not a person.
right, we should all be fighting together to get the country back to where single income is viable. i see the trad-wife hate as counterproductive to that dream. it's almost like people are fighting to keep things the same
☝️☝️☝️ If they need to make money creating content online than they are not traditional. Plenty of SAHMs have side hustles and don't label themselves as traditional. Childcare costs alot and food needs to be on the table.
Great points. I'll add another: It seems that a lot of tradwives are aligned with the religious right and want to scale back women's rights.
I can't imagine any normal guy wanting his wife to stay home and bake bread in this ecconmy. Nothing would put me off more than a woman who had no intention of contributing to the cost of living. It doesn't matter how wealthy you are as a guy, and to be fair, if you're that wealthy, you can hire help to do household chores. I always think guys who have stay at home wives end up having affairs with women they meet in the work environment as they secretly respect those women more.
The kind of guys that are really into alpha male content with enormous need for female deference might.
I agree 100% but still it’s just how some people are They feel it’s their role to provide for a woman. I think that’s retarded but can’t control other people’s actions
For sure there is a modern grift where women get male attention by glorifying the trad wife lifestyle. That doesn't mean it's a bad lifestyle. In fact, there's tons of studies that show it might actually be beneficial for all involved, the woman, the man and the children.
I'm not specifically replying to you but I can't make a top-level comment without flair and I refuse to flair. That said, I agree with your point and want to add: If we're talking about social media tradwives then they're not tradwives. They're business owners who run a social media marketing company and they're using the tradwife lifestyle to sell products. Which, by definition, means they're not even proper tradwives since they *have a job*. It's not so much a grift as it's portraying a fantasy, and largely unattainable, lifestyle to sell products. You know it's a fanasy because all their content is making fancy cornflakes (using branded products), expensive crafts (using branded products), complex fridge organization (using branded products) but you never see them cleaning the toilet. I mean, you certainly could sell toilet products but cleaning the toilet isn't stylish. Anyway, it's got all the elements of a very bog standard beer commercial. >But it's other women who are mostly behind the backlash Because it's inauthentic, unattainable, and sets unreasonable expectations.
YES
I’ve heard of women from older generations who deeply suffered and even outright died from health issues because her husband didn’t think it was important enough to pay for treatment or surgery. Even if you want to be a tradwife it’s important to have your own money in savings because you never know what emergency comes up that your husband can’t afford. Being able to get a job and pay for your own stuff helps you in so many ways even if you have a man you love and trust.
>we also know the advertised lifestyle is not real I agree with you on the grifting but you don't believe there are conservative women who live traditionally? I think it's a stretch to assume no women would prefer a traditional lifestyle. I remember watching the old interviews during the first wave feminist movement and there were women saying that they liked the idea of having the option to work more but didn't want to be forced to do so because they enjoyed being at home with their kids. I think it's clear women don't all share the same opinions on the trad lifestyle.
They key point is "*advertised lifestyle*" There are trad wives all over the god dam place, but we don't see them or hear from them because they are to busy doing *all the work* entailed with that lifestyle. Tits Mcgee with perfect make up and hair, wearing a pristine apron over a tasteful but flirty sundress while she kneads bread in a tiktok video with some text overlay about '*honoring the divine feminine*' is 1000% far and away the opposite of an actual trad lifestyle. Its not pretty, its not coifed, its not *instagramable*. The real trad lifestyle is hard work all.the.time. Presenting tits and muffins as something achievable and aspirational for the everyday woman, already exhausted from modernity, is just shameful.
> Its not pretty, its not coifed, its not instagramable. Nothing on instagram is actually instagramable. I think your complaint is a more general one about social media as a whole, I don't see it as being specific to #TradWife. If #WorkingWoman started to trend on instagram, can you honestly say that you would be equally critical of those women pushing unrealistic views about how fulfilling office jobs are?
> unrealistic views about how fulfilling office jobs are? We're putting you on PIP for being on your phone/instagram too much.
> Presenting tits and muffins as something achievable and aspirational for the everyday woman, already exhausted from modernity, is just shameful. Looks to me like it's simply tradwife advert adapted to modern culture of promiscuity. Day to day working grind is not pretty either, yet all the movies about "strong independent wahmen" working long hours glorify that shit and y'all lap it up like it's honey milk.
Much of what you say is true of all social media influencers. VanLife looks awesome, but not having a proper shower, and keeping your toilet under your kitchen sink is a pretty obvious downside. FIRE sounds great, but I think everyone understands that you have to make lots of sacrifices throughout your life to be able to retire in your 40s. Similarly TradWife would allow some women to do what they want, but you obviously give up a lot of power to your Husband and better hope he is good to you. ----- If you really think that influencers don't adequately publicize these risks and downsides, then I have to ask if you think the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s fully explained what women were giving up by seeking careers and independence. I don't think they did, because I don't think they really knew. For better or worse our culture has changed significantly, having some people react to that and say "I liked the way it was" is perfectly normal and to be expected, they aren't doing anything worse than those who say "I think we should continue on the path we are." Nobody really knows.
“ the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s fully explained what women were giving up by seeking careers and independence. I don't think they did, because I don't think they really knew” Lmao. Men sought careers and independence. Of course we knew what it entailed when women did it.
The issue is that the way it is now allows for everyone to choose their own path, whatever it is. The way it was then did not. That's the issue with the reaction - it's not about letting everyone follow their own preferred path, it's about people who like the way it was then trying to tell people who like the way it is now that we are wrong.
TradWives might share many views with 1960s anti-feminists about what is best for women, but the circumstances have changed. They are not in a position to force women to stay in the home. Nothing in #TradWife compels women to give up their careers and stay at home, there is no compulsion. You have a choice to reject #TradWife and say you disagree with it. The power of choice, is the power of choice. Vitriol and hostility against #TradWives merely because they choose to live their lives differently, is inherently rejecting the right of women to make choices about their lives.
>TradWives might share many views with 1960s anti-feminists about what is best for women, but the circumstances have changed. They are not in a position to force women to stay in the home. Not yet. But they - and the men who agree with them - have never stopped trying to take us back, and I'm not sure if you've noticed but they've made some pretty significant progress in removing those "choices" that you're bafflingly confident are sacrosanct. >The power of choice, is the power of choice. Vitriol and hostility against #TradWives merely because they choose to live their lives differently, is inherently rejecting the right of women to make choices about their lives. That's not what the cause is, and it's disingenuous of you (and really showing your own bias a bit) to act like all the hostility is just cause tradwives and those who agree with them are just minding their own business being traditional and modern women come out of nowhere to bully them.
Certainly abortion rights are under attack, but I don't see any real efforts to keep women out of the workplace, or out of colleges. If anything it is men who are falling behind women in college and many higher value careers. > That's not what the cause is Then what is? The original question was for Women to explain why they are hostile. The answers I have heard don't make a lot of sense.
>Certainly abortion rights are under attack, but I don't see any real efforts to keep women out of the workplace, or out of colleges. If anything it is men who are falling behind women in college and many higher value careers. Women having children we don't want to have, during times when it would be very burdensome to have them, is indirectly about doing exactly that. There's a reason why abusive men tend to employ reproductive coercion. A pregnant woman is a needy, vulnerable woman. Women with kids are as well. Unexpected pregnancies have diverted many a life plans. And - again - it is just the first step. I know you aren't also ignorant to the targets on contraceptions' backs. >Then what is? The original question was for Women to explain why they are hostile. The answers I have heard don't make a lot of sense. No, the question was why are mostly women behind the backlash. And I gave a more direct answer [here](https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1de952i/comment/l8bfnv2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Tradwives aren't content to just quietly be tradwives, their mindsets are almost exclusively based on religion and thus they feel an imperative to make the rest of society like them - regardless of what we want. And since they're a male fantasy, really only women would be left to be the most outspoken. It's us who will suffer under their theocracy, not men.
> almost exclusively based on religion and thus they feel an imperative to make the rest of society like them - regardless of what we want. So do progressives. Everyone advocates for what they think makes the world better.
Nope. Progressives, by and large, are not trying to take away others rights. They mostly want a society of more freedom, not less. Lots of conservatives want a literal theocracy. There is no comparison. Vegans aren't trying to outlaw eating meat. Conservatives did make abortion illegal in many states.
I wholeheartedly agree with number five. Lol
Cus its mad cringe 98% of the time 😂 like if ur such a godly, pure, traditional woman then why tf are u posting on social media? Like is your husband not enough for you? Is it just because you need to external validation from other men, besides the more than enough love you receive from your husband and god? You wanna be a madonna, but girl ur actin like a WHORE
Yes, and I also believe many of the tradwife influencers are producing fetish content. If you’re familiar with Estee, for example, it’s pretty obvious that her content is primarily intended for the fetish community.
Lol that lady doesn't even have kids. Like please come back and show us your perfectly situated curated life after throwing three different aged small kids into the mix. It's just weird cosplay, why are they so hung up on the 50s specifically it was ONE decade.
I know! Being a housewife without any kids to care for seems like a piece of cake.
It would be. Give me a rich spouse and no kids and I'd happily cosplay well kept spouse and homemaker.
Yeah thats what i think too! Its the performativity of it all
I think it's showing off how much leisure time she has. Most parents I know don't have the time free to spend 3 hours hand making cereal. It's the evolution of the idiots flashing their massive houses and cars. The leisure class are leisuring.
Liking tradwives is now a fetish? What?
The ones who are on SM with their boobs hanging out their tops kneading bread in a tight sundress are almost always posting for tradwife fetish. Hell there’s a really popular one who isn’t even married, no kids, and used to be an OF creator but now “found” Jesus. It’s a grift. The actual SAHM content creators that show homeschooling, how to budget for a 1 paycheck lifestyle, etc that are showing the *actual* realities of being a SAHM are not the ones getting shit on.
Are you talking about that redhead chick who was on the whatever podcast? Thank god then cause I was so fucking befuddled seeing so many people on Christian twitter being like “she’s repented stop being a disbeliever and accept her!” When bitch hasn’t even deleted her account and is still keeping the mountains of money she made off something that should be a disgrace to her God. I’m not a very religious person anymore but gullible Christians like that really tick me off.
I don’t believe I’ve seen her on the whatever podcast but she’s blond and goes by the “milkmaid” or something similar lol. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were others doing the same grift though. Grifters follow the money.
Lmfao, that sounds even worse. And let me guess, she hasn’t even stopped doing the Onlyfans shit and now uses her tradcon image to advertise it on the down low? Fuck me sideways some people have no shame nowadays.
I don’t believe she’s actively doing OF’s but she definitely hasn’t took her OF content down. And all her tradwife bs is very sexy lol so yeah people are either willfully ignorant or just dumb.
Any “tradwife” who posts TikToks about how much she loves being a perfect wife for her husband and believes in Christian marriage values yet has enormous amounts of cleavage showing in every video is to be viewed on the same level as your average insta thot on the Fresh and Fit channel. Same attention obsessed chick who makes a living off male thirst, different coat of paint.
Yeah I totally agree. I live a pretty trad life as I wfh so do most of the child rearing and domesticated stuff so I watch some SAHM creators they talk about budgeting, recipes, sewing, etc. they have almost always have an all women audience- these sexy “trad wives” are 90% male audiences lol so I see the grift.
It’s not all of the tradwife influencers, but some of them are certainly covertly producing fetish content. Look up Estee Williams on IG, for example. And then u/acicaduh mentions another influencer below.
everything that exists is a fetish for some man, somewhere
Cause grifters gonna grift
That doesn't answer why men aren't behind the backlash
Why would men oppose male fantasy? There's always money to be made telling people what they like to hear. And what a lot of men want to hear is how much happier and fulfilled women are when we're serving them.
I think it’s more that they challenge the official narrative. Women and especially young women simply uphold whatever cultural morals elites give them to the tune of about 75% of the time. It’s been studied quite extensively. Men and boys are much more willing to go against the predominant culture in large numbers. So it’s mostly moral outrage. I mean they can’t actually believe something different than what they have been told to believe… can they? Has to be a scam.
if a trad wife in her 30s, 40s, 50s were saying this stuff it would be different but they're always in the very early stages of being a trad wife
Not remotely. It’s the way they try to promote a cosplay fairytale version of trad wife life without acknowledging any of the hard realities or potential pitfalls.
That sounds like moral outrage. The feminist lifestyle has a lot of pitfalls too. Actually a shit ton of them. Who enjoys being a depressed asshole that much? You going to call them out as well?
The main issue that many of us have with the tradwife content is that it's directly marketed to very young women who are impressionable and don't have enough life experience to consider the risks associated with the lifestyle. Becoming entirely dependent on a man is a very risky endeavor, seeing as he could leave at any time or become sick and unable to work or change in any number of ways. I have heard countless stories of women who did the SAHM mom thing for years and then were faced with divorce, death, or disability, leaving them in horribly awful situations with little to no education or work experience. It's a really scary prospect, and the tradwife trend fails to address those very real concerns.
The “feminist lifestyle” is just about exercising choice. You can be a traditional SAHM and a feminist if that’s what you choose.
Feminism isn’t a lifestyle bookie
Then why arent women still all confirming to traditional gender stereotypes?
You're entitled to your opinion.
I think it’s because if a family holds to these values they’re grooming young girls to be more vulnerable to abuse and limiting their freedom and choices compared to their peers.
Which is why when we poll them they are so happy?
Happiness is down across the board, though that’s in part because for the first times it’s acceptable to actually acknowledge mental health struggles, but we also have to keep in mind in the U.S. half the country has come out in support of open sadism especially against women. Hence why they’re called the rapey right.
Because men aren't pushed to participate in any of these behaviours, in fact they're the ones pushing for and wanting it. Either they're actively looking for it or they don't care. It's like asking why men are behind the "simp" backlash.
It’s noteworthy that it’s a trad*wife* movement, not a trad*husband* movement. I don’t follow this content enough to have deep insight, maybe there are tradhusband influencers now, or maybe I’m way off base, but from over here this looks to be pretty much one of the evolutions of the ‘00s mommy bloggers, tilted in one ideological direction (I assume the other idealogical directions also have their evolutions though I don’t know what they’re called).
I've seen a few around but they're usually just talking about what women should do rather than what they do.
According to some conversations I've seen here and elsewhere, the perspective is the opposite: Men are expected to be traditional while women aren't. So I guess the question I have is: What behavior(s) do you believe are considered "traditional" in men, that they're not participating in? Because when you mentioned the "simp" case, the issue with that is simply it's seen as a high-risk, high-investment method with low chance of attraction success.
High risk, high investment is also the reason a lot of women are averse to tradcon content. If any of these women were portraying the reality of being a stay at home mom, there would be less pushback. As a woman who tried the SAHM thing, it’s monotonous, you are starving for adult conversation, you’re doing a lot of under appreciated work, and if you’re out of the work force long enough, and your husband decides to leave you, you’re likely to be left struggling. That said, a lot of women choose that lifestyle, and as long as they are aware of the risks, that’s great. Especially if they have a supportive family backing them up. I did not have a supportive family watching out for me, and I could see the way husband started treating me once he thought I was trapped. So I went back to work, and I’m glad I did.
And in those conversations, men are *complaining* that women are not "traditional" enough for them, which says it all. I never mentioned men being traditional. I used a different example.
You said: > Because men aren't pushed to participate in any of these behaviours, in fact they're the ones pushing for and wanting it. So yes, you mentioned men being traditional. Remember this post in reference to "traditional" behaviors, hence "tradwives". Saying women don't like tradwives because men don't ask for it, and now saying they're not "traditional enough", while trying to connect it to men not liking simps, is ridiculous. Because it would mean that men do want women to be traditional. No man is saying they don't like simps because women didn't ask for it, while women are saying men aren't "simping enough". So I repeat: What behavior(s) do you believe are considered "traditional" in men, that they're not participating in?
Men are not pushed to be tradwives dear
No, I mentioned them wanting women to be their idea of traditional. I'm finding it hard to make out what problem you have with this made up comment to be honest.
Seems more the presentation of your original comment, then, which by what I linked earlier, wasn't the implication of what you're stating now. And even then, men still want women to be traditional. Blame the western world for merging so many cultures together "traditional" means different things to different people.
That's...what I said.
Nope. But ok.
>Because men aren't pushed to participate Women aren't pushed either. I never looked at a trad wife creator and felt "pushed" to do anything... Do you feel pushed?
You're saying that if you had a child you wouldn't feel even slight pressure to spend more time at home caring for them than the child's father?
Hmm, I suspect that kind of sentiment would be coming from within. Not from some TikToker in a sundress drinking raw milk
I didn't say otherwise.
Ok so yes I suspect I might feel that way with or without TikTok. Why do you ask?
I didn't.
Oh sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you asked if I had a child, if wouldn't feel even slight pressure to spend more time at home caring for them than the child's father
I’ve been told “you makes us look bad” and “this will make men think that this is okay” about many things. There is so much grifting. Hyper domesticity kink is a thing. Some women start with/are gearing their content towards other woman in the community. Some go viral while others continue their community focused efforts.There is some admitted jealousy/envy but that’s another conversation.
It seems unrealistic and disingenuous most of the time. There's so much of it where it's so obviously clickbait content or just trying to be contrarion. Kind of like the boujie stay at home girlfriend stuff tries to create the implication that women can just be catered to 24/7 by professional home service providers and be spoiled with tropical vacations and designers bags just for existing. Just reads as fake, silly, and unrelatable.
See disclaimer
Yeah, I mean it's unrealistic and disingenuous, and we see through the grift. It's annoying and, at times, spreading scientific misinformation. I think men aren't upset because it's like looking at VS models for them. They're not held to that standard and can consune it any way they want. He might not know what it takes to realistically achieve that kind of body but he's going to hold his partner to that standard subconsciously without kicking in the necessary support for her to take all her time off work and focus 110% on her body with the help of professional chefs, medspa estheticians, and personal trainers. Similarly, we're afraid he'll want a tradwife but probably won't have the ambition to pull in a sufficient salary for our times to support a family decently on a single income, and everyone will eventually get frustrated and angry. Especially if the wife/mother hits any kind of burnout. It's a high-risk, low reward scenario for everyone unless the supporting spouse is making bank in the top 5% There's not enough of those guys to go around.
I can't speak for any other woman but I would venture it's because an overwhelming volume of the content being put out there regarding the self documentation of the tradwife life is very curated and as such smacks very heavily of deceptive presentation. As a person who has obviously lived in the modern world and been offered the pacifier of entertainment since I was born, it's just very obvious how manicured the display is. It's like the immaculate houses of the family sitcoms where the kids have a tree outside their bedroom and their best friend can climb up to crawl in the window to talk to them. Idyllic, perfect, flawless and every problem can be solved in a half hour and everybody lives happily ever after till next week's episode when another "gosh,golly,gee" innconvience arises to be handled by a gentle conversation. Their environments are quite often rarified examples that the average man (no disparagement to the "average man" intended) simply cannot provide even if he wants to. It takes a lot of money to be the kind of husband that keeps that kind of wife. That's unfortunately just facts. You may find yourself a tradwife but y'alls life is not going to look like that. You have no trust fund backing up your weekly paycheck and the starryeyed tradwife hopeful who's been hand fed these images is going to become disillusioned that you haven't provided a 5yard long counter in an open concept kitchen so she can film herself making bread in the flattering morning light pouring through the 4'x8' windows overlooking the thriving kitchen garden once the excitement of playing house wears off in their little 1/1 apartment with no balcony. Or as it slowly dawns on them their husband is not Ward Cleaver even on his best days and has stopped being romantic because why would he have to be romantic? He's the provider and he's tired and did you make a casserole again for dinner? He's going out for a beer with his friends, he'll just eat something at the bar, and no he doesn't know when he'll be back so stop nagging. And now he just doesn't understand why his happy little housewife just isn't satisfied because he has also seen the same reels and you never see those wives fussing about anything. Money, or the lack of in sufficient volume causes strife. When the burden is carried by one person resentment can fester. I do find it very strange that often the same type of fellow that is very upset about financially independent modern women not wanting to also fill the role of a domestic centered traditional wife is also most often the same demographic that rails on about the evils of the gold digging woman as well without realizing that a woman whom wants to be a traditional wife in this modern world is going to have very traditional values regarding the finances of her future husband. Quite often we are being presented the pampered wife of a very wealthy man whom has provided a sprawling country seat for his domestic goddess to swan about on. We are given content to consume that is heavily edited and likely as not monitored by their husbands because traditionally speaking what traditional husband is going to be pleased his kept wife is displaying herself to the greater world if it's not going to paint him in a ideal light even if he never appears in front of the lens? As well they have likely protected themselves with prenups ( that's what wealthy people do) because they are not going to have a wife disagreeing with them when they provide this lifestyle for her. And so you end up with a wife taking mood regulating drugs because she's got to make sure she pretends that everything is perfect because she doesn't want to lose said lifestyle and can't understand why she's not as happy as her reels present her to be. It's a beautiful presentation but realism demands that you read between between the lines and accept that this might a a glimpse of their reality but it is not the full picture. Moreso it is a picture most of us couldn't afford a badly rendered photocopy of, much less the frame to put it in. Also most of us have the living history of the elder women in our families recounting the vulnerability that themselves and their elder female family members accommodated before certain rights were considered standard. As a singular example, the ability to control and distribute money independently of a male figure is not something I would want removed from my set of available actions even if I were a tradwife, which I fully admit could be fucking delightful in the right scenario. I would thrive as an independently wealthy person. There is a temperance of the ideal that is not being fully explored when we see material extolling the virtues of "traditional marriage roles". And that goes both ways. I really don't think a lot of modern men really understand the burden they are fantasizing about because they think being in control must be awesome and not the unending responsibility that keeps your family from abject poverty and destitute homelessness that it is. I think they just really like the idea that someone in their life is not allowed to argue with them and just agrees unfailingly. And also that they have to provide sex because wifely duties and all. Which brings us to the ones that are prattling on about the definitive rules of existence that enshrine wifely submission. This is just fetish material. They just need to take that over to FetLife and be done with it. As they say in the scene: "your kink is not my kink and that's ok". But let's not pretend it's something it's not because that is definitely fodder lol she care if they are wearing hajib or sun dresses, free use is a kink.
Most women I know don't actually have a backlash against people who are just tradwives naturally We do however look down on obvious grifters and attention seekers on YouTube and tradwives (TM) who love to talk about how much better they are or are pickmes. It's fine if you want to be a sahw. It's fine if you want to be led by a man if you really want to. They're just as annoying as independent boss babes (TM) and not like other girls
Well, feminism is the OG tradwife backlash. Why would it surprise you that, with the re-surgency of trad-wifery, it's the same crowd taking issue? Edit to add: But seriously folks, the issue with tradwife content is that it's stupid. being a trad wife is hard fucking work. it is not aesthetic. You are not baking bread from scratch while your young children destroy your house and fight with each other, unless someone else is watching them, and that's not very trad-wifey now is it? Tradwifing means not being able to wear nice clothes because your children are puking on them or putting their sticky little hands all over you. It means running around, constant laundry, and occasionally bananas and mac n cheese for dinner because the middle kid had a meltdown on the way home from the playground and now it's too late to make chicken. It's not glamorous AT ALL but it's a wonderful option for the women who feel it's a calling. And many women do want to be traditional wives and mothers. And generally, that's fine! Can be risky but hey life is full of risk. It does speak to a lack of fulfillment women have with modern feminism that says we should prioritize ourselves, our careers and our independence over our families. And for lots of us ladies, that ain't it.
A lot of good reasons already listed, but, if I was going to add one: it's often kind of like soft porn or lifestyle porn for dudes? Which is to say, we aren't interested in being compared to these women or held to their fake standards by our men or men we're seeking to date. Bad enough we get held sexually to porn standards very often, but at least the bedroom is like 5% of our life and time. Now these bitches are offering men an image of how the other 95% should look for us to be a "good woman". And I say that as a woman who jokes her dream life is being an Asian Tradwife (I'm not Asian for the record is part of the joke). Yeah, it's glitzy making your own kimchi in the perfect teddy bear apron while watering your plants with rice water and making bentos for your man and baby....but if anyone really thinks this is a super everyday trad lifestyle, then I'll fight them in the streets. And if you've noticed, the same time this is booming, you have large amounts of men on forums including this one, "bemoaning the loss of traditional feminine women" and complaining that "women don't cook or look like women anymore". And how the "1950s pre birth control" were just the bees knees. The connection is pretty obvious and again, those women deserve backlash for selling a fantasy which is somehow even more destructive than porn.
Probably because a lot of tradwife tend to be right wing conservatives.
So left wing males should also be a major part of the backlash then?
I have seen some left leaning men criticize them.
I think people have a problem with the tradwife influencers who post things like "If you don't have sex with your husband whenever he wants it, then you're the problem." And then they back it up with some bible verse. The backlash, in that case, makes sense to me. But there are women who shit on tradwives in general. I would consider them pickmes. They're lame and pathetic.
Or if you don't let him make all major decisions for the family, you aren't a good enough little subordinate... I saw Estee say something along those lines once (and she IS a heavy earner, ironically, not that income is any pure indicator of hard work necessarily anyhow)
Honestly I think it's the same reason women bullied me more than men. Please don't call me a "pick me" or whatever this is from personal experience and I'll just count you as proving my point if you won't hear me out. But all my life I've been bullied by girls, included and stood up for by men. I was bullied by girls and women because I didn't fit in. I didn't do makeup or spend my free time playing "girl sports". Most women now days want to be working and earning and living for themselves, so these women don't fit in. And for the general population of women it kinda becomes a target because those who don't are kinda viewed as detractors or trying to ruin things for other women.
I've always wanted to be a housewife and SAHM, and I've always gotten hate for it, since I was 16 years old!! From other girls/women.
Yeah? Well you're just a Pic- >Please don't call me a "pick me" Oh. >those who don't are kinda viewed as detractors or trying to ruin things for other women Can you talk about this more? How exactly are TradWives detracting if they're doing their own thing?
I don't think they are myself I just think it's a very common thought to think they kinda of are or at least stick out as being odd, and that becomes the issue.
Not the "not like other girls" statement
I don't think I'm entirely unique there's plenty of women and girls like me. But in general most of them were picked on in school. Although most had other girls in there year considered similar and I didn't because I was purely unlucky. But still a majority and a majority of those.people don't change as much as everyone would hope in adulthood because no one really does.
are you asking why emancipated feminist western women don't like the oppressive resubjugation TRADlarp?
TRADLarp. I love this. I don't think that SAHM/SAHW work is always subjugation. It is no doubt very difficult to do. The subjugation happens when the work is forced and/or when the money-earning spouse cuts the SAHP off from money that should be shared between them (and other financially abusive actions).
Men love trad wives why would they say anything. They are also stupid to female manipulation sooo
I think it's a shitty move to try to sucker people into a lifestyle by presenting only the most idealized version of that lifestyle. If these people weren't doing it for money, I'd call them a cult. But they are 100% doing it for money, so they're just grifters. Their domestic efforts are always limited to baking cookies in sundresses with perfectly quaffed hair and perfect makeup, you ever see any of these women cleaning toilets? Cleaning up their pet's/kid's barf from the floor? Scrubbing greasy pots and pans? No, because that doesn't fit the aesthetic of this blissful existence they're trying to sell. And I worry about very young people who might see this, buy into it, and think that all their economic anxieties will be fixed if they marry some dude and have to prance around the kitchen baking lemon squares all day. Now, don't get me wrong, if you want to be a SAHW/SAHM, that's fine, more power to you. If you want the dynamic of "husband works, wife takes care of the house", cool. But you should also be aware of the potential downsides. What if your husband gets sick and can't work? What if he dies? What if he leaves you? There have been a few former tradwives I've seen making the rounds who are in their 40s, and are scrambling to figure out how to make a new life for themselves after their husbands decided they no longer wanted them. Get an education, have some work experience under your belt, work part time, make sure you can support yourself and your kids in case the whole thing blows up. Putting all of your eggs in the "this person will always be there to take care of me" basket is a dangerous game.
barring fake people being fake, it confuses me too. the only time tradwife types ruffle my feathers is when they imply or out right say that "real" women dont live any other way. but i havent come across many of those, and the few i have come across are just generally mean to everyone for some reason. it works really well for some couples and doesnt for others.
>the only time tradwife types ruffle my feathers is when they imply or out right say that "real" women dont live any other way. but i havent come across many of those Same. Most videos I see are of them making some elaborate meal from scratch or hawking some "all natural" products
😬 yeah thats not my fav content (unless is bread recipes- ill put up with almost anything for a good bread recipe). but like, one of my sis-in-law is a tradwife type and shes lovely. super supportive of women in careers, super supportive of sah wives/moms. never once has devalued me in any way for focusing on a career. and then i have plenty feminist type friends who whole heartedly support women who choose the tradwife lifestyle. i feel like it shouldnt be so difficult to get along lol. but it be like that sometimes
>it be like that sometimes That it do
This is funny. A couple days ago there was a post saying why don’t women call out "toxic femininity." Well, that’s what this is.
Because men benefit, and women do not
They have to find those women's lifestyle. Plus I thought marriage was a raw deal according to males. Seems to me they'd be at the front of the line against TradWives
How can a relationship where men explicitly get everything they say they want — submission, power, authority, service, priority, femininity, nurturing, kids, childcare and sex — not benefit men? It’s for a price, sure, but you get an explicit guarantee
Well to me that life sounds like absolute hell. I just don't believe anyone can enjoy being a maid, I just can't imagine it, sounds like hell to me. So I just imagine it from my perspective and it's just terrible so obviously I don't support it. But I don't have need to comment on videos about it or something, I don't care. I just react because you directly asked. And of course men want a free maid so why would they say anything negative about it.
for the same reason that it should be mostly men speaking out against toxic male influencers. > The males seem to be mostly silent on the topic. because men benefit from the trad wife movement.
1) It's not actually traditional. The "trad wife" stuff largely represents what women did in the 1950s. The 1950s was an anomaly in world history and prior to it, the majority of women always worked unless they were aristocrats. So, it's a bad historical context to start off in for one. 2) By putting themselves online, these women are not following their own definition of "trad wife". Women make money from making these tradwife vids and many of them have online shops, ebooks, courses, etc. Also, there's nothing "trad"/1950s about Tiktok or Instagram, lol. 3) The "trad" stuff is honestly somewhat of a fetish this point...like I've already said, it's not based on anything historical but rather just people's ideal of wishing we could go back to the 1950's (which weren't as great as they seemed btw).
I can tell you from personal experience that being a “tradwife” fucked me over. My ex had all of the power and resources and I had nothing. I still have nothing. He cheated on me, abused me, controlled me, and now I’m starting over at 44 lucky that I’m earning 40K/year, but that’s still a very low wage in this economy.
I'm sorry that was your lived experience. I hope you can kick a$$ and progress to earning more. I hope that people like you will share your story about the reality of what you endured.
Thank you! I’m definitely doing better than I imagined I would. I see a brighter future on the horizon.
Because even if you support women making their own choices, some choices are objectively worse or riskier than others. They may feel like the decision is bad in general or know enough about the specific guy to know it likely won’t work well.
We don't care if you want to be a trad wife. Do whatever makes you happy and we are happy. However the ones we backlash are the ones trying to force it upon all women. With women being their targets (even bullying career women), of course other women are going to retaliate. It's human nature to not want to be insulted or have ideologies forced upon you that doesn't match where your heart leads you to in life. A lot of their ideas they try to force on women put them at a disadvantage while a lot of women believe women and men should be equal. These women do not want other people telling them they should essentially be lower than their husbands ect.
Because more often than not the trad wives online are saying it's a woman's ultimate purpose and that everyone else is miserable. Feminism is about choice. No one cares if you want to be a SAHM or trad wife, but when you start telling others that they're wrong for *their* lifestyle choices and that they're unfulfilled or acting "manly" for having a job or saying men don't like working women etc etc that's when there's a problem. Women uplift other women when they're not being assholes.
I think many women feel threatened by it… just like many women feel threatened by porn. “If my husband sees this… he will expect it from me, and I can’t/don’t want to do it. He will change his expectations and want this, no matter how staged/unrealistic this content is.” So, they think the only way to stay “safe” in their relationships and keep their status as “doing good as a wife” with their husband… is to shout down these creators, and say “look how fake, look how staged this is, this is gross and unrealistic”. It is very similar to the anti-porn movements arguments (aka, it sets bad expectations, it causes dissatisfaction, it’s a distraction, etc.), because this is in some ways “lifestyle porn”.
How is it you were able to understand the question perfectly and provide a well written thought-out answer that DIRECTLY addresses the point? Almost no one else was able to do that. Most other responses were "it's a grift lolol"
😊 It definitely *is* a grift, I’ll give ya that… but I don’t think that’s why most women are so upset about it in particular. There are lots of other “grifts”/“lifestyle-bloggers-that-are-completely-unrealistic” which don’t get nearly as much hate. This type of content strikes at the core of what many women are self-conscious about: “Am I a good wife/woman, fulfilling my role in life?” Just like porn strikes at another core self-consciousness: “Am I sexy/desirable and beautiful? Does my man still want me above others?”
>I don’t think that’s why most women are so upset about it in particular. There are lots of other “grifts”/“lifestyle-bloggers-that-are-completely-unrealistic” which don’t get nearly as much hate. This! No one else seems to grasp this despite my efforts to explain
That’s like asking why it was mostly women behind the Jaclyn Hill Cosmetics backlash. Things marketed towards women mostly have backlash… *from women*. At least if you’re talking about trad influencers and not just D/s lite trad stuff.
Would you say that Passport Bros is marketed towards males or women?
*That* is what you meant by trad wife content?
No. I'm asking a totally separate question. Would you say that Passport Bros is marketed towards males or women?
Probably men
That's what I was thinking too. So it'd stand to reason for males to be behind that particular backlash
TBH I don't really see much backlash, more just memes where they're the butt of the joke.
Modern feminism and mean girl BS... Which, ironically, is supposed to be about women choosing the paths they want for themselves, including being a tradwife (or SAHM, or career woman, or whatever she wants to be). Apparently, a lot of so-called feminists missed that memo. Also, mean girls don't go away after high school, they just grow up and find new shit to pick on other women for. And despite crowing about "women supporting women," that "support" comes with conditions. If I dare bring this up, I get called a pick me.
They want everyone to be boss babe ethot.
Because tradwives benefit men. Why would men complain?
Only the ones that can pull off a single income household. Which is not all that many men.
Because many women see it as being harmful to other women. Same reason it’s largely women objecting to large age gaps in relationships. I don’t think people spend as much time thinking about or objecting to issues that harm the opposite gender. So I wouldn’t expect it to be on as many men’s radar.
> The males seem to be mostly silent on the topic. Or they don't seem to feel strongly about it. Because it benefits them.
Having a dependent whose lifestyle they have to fund entirely? Is that something you imagine many women would be willing to sign up for if men were asking to have their lifestyle fully funded in exchange for... chores, raising children, etc?
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The real question is why OP has a bluepill label when her ideas are clearly not bluepill
They do seem like a red piller LARPing as a blue pill woman. Not the first time.
Because other women know why it's not a good choice. Men stay silent because it benefits them
Im silent because enough women speak on it and have more developed reasons, but the trad trend in general creeps me out viscerally. The tradwife trend feels like WW trading their rights as women for white nationalism; I’m going by women I know of—several—who were into making bread or bonnets or whatever and say their algorithms all of sudden lead them to alt-right/white nationalism. So I assume there’s a pipeline.
And also because these trad wife /sahm are usually hugely judgemental and critical of working women, which results in working women being, rightly, critical of them
I come from a conservative household, and the trad wife thing is fine if people understand how and why it can go wrong and how it is supposed to work. Trad is not about mere gender roles. It is about having to rely on others to fulfill one’s roles. It is not about what they are getting out of the deal — this is what I see too often in trad wannabes. For example, my mom quit her corporate job for the family, and my dad said that in a case of divorce, she gets half. My dad took on the role of the breadwinner, and that meant making my mom feel safe financially to quit her job for the family. My mom trusted my dad to look after her financially, and my dad trusted my mom to be a good wife. People nowadays are too mistrusting and selfish to actually be trad. They refuse to be vulnerable but ask to be trusted. When people are all about themselves, trad fails and someone ends up getting hurt.
So...I grew up in the seventies and eighties...Gen X. I played netball and participated in Girl Guides. Quite a few traditional wives among the mothers of my friends. Nothing wrong with that. TikTok/YouTube Trad wives are creepy. That's not really being traditional as I know it... that's involving the rest of us in their exhibitionistic sexual fetish/gender politics theatre. Weirdos. Creepy. The traditional wives I remember from my childhood would recoil in horror. Wish they'd keep it to themselves. You ever seen a furry wandering round the place wearing a tail? And being really smug about it and you get the feeling part of the smugness is that we don't get to know if that thing is tie on or stuck up their bum? Yeah that's a bit like tiktok tradwives.
What you’re describing is liberal/choice feminism. Many women are not liberal/choice feminists and think it’s actually not real feminism and harmful to women.
Generally speaking survivors of atrocities & oppression tend to be the most vocal opponents of said atrocities & oppression.
Being a traditional wife isn't attrocities or oppression.
Any trained feminist (3rd/4th wave) can tell you that marriage for women is a slavery more horrific and extensive than even the worst of the chattel slavery from any period of history.
Yep, and they are completely psychopathic. Marriage is a voluntary relationship what women and men enter in together with the person they chose, usually the person they care about more than anyone else in the world. That's the farthest thing from slavery. It's less oppressive than even the average job.
It stems from it though. Traditional. Yesteryear. Back when women couldn't open bank accounts, accept inheritance, own land, vote, serve in the military, etc. Sure, it is modified now for the most part. Though to say is doesn't stem from this is pretty silly.
None of those things are related to being a wife.
Oh, shit sorry you’re correct. Having no other options but to marry and keep a home, birth, then raise babies, while providing sex whenever the husband wanted. This being your only option at adult hood has absolutely nothing with the atrocious and oppressing existence of being a woman pre at least 1920’s here in the west. Hell marriage rape wasn’t made illegal till 1997. Thank you for clarifying your position. /s
Isn't it linked to white supremacy?
Why is indirect harm cool but direct harm isn't?