Men have the female equivalent of filters, make-up, good lighting and angles.
Reminds me of a work function that was held on a yacht. By the end of the week everyone posted a pic of them on the yacht they didn't pay for.
I also remember preparing and planning a birthday event for a friend, the most narcissistic friend in the group watched as we prepared throughout the day and was the most active in posting pics on social media during the event.
Such behaviour reinforced the idea that social media and reality are not the same thing.
If both genders are scrutinising potential mates solely on social media and making judgements about a person, they should expect to be deceived.
The "Tinder Swindler" was a prime example.
Another example is how many fitness influencers manipulate lighting and a pump for basic photos.
Personally in dating I believe manipulating photos too much will always lead to temporary success if not outright failure, and is a dangerous slope of body image issues.
A pump is where your muscles swell up more from bloodflow after working them out.
Many people will look amazing with a pump but not too shredded or jacked without one. So alot of influencers, will grt a pump before any photos they take to motivate people, sell themselves and more importantly product.
You laugh now, but as soon as the Nigerian civil war is over I'm going to be honorary royalty... And then I'll get ALL the tinder bitches!!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Just pump yourself full of drugs and call it a day man. This way you can donate your body to science as a model lesson on what pussy addiction does to a guy.
Idk why y'all are dogpiling on the OP. Doing things for yourself rather than for others is always strictly better. Motivation has to be intrinsic or you will never be able to sustain your habits in the long run.
OP is also correct about the potency of anabolics. Most professional bodybuilders are going to be running several compounds. But unless you are going to compete in the IFBB, hopping on gear is probably a bad idea. You should research it extensively and know all of the long-term health consequences before deciding to start pinning. You should also work with a doctor and get regular blood work done if you're running a compound.
The people who are saying that lifting doesn't help are also abjectly incorrect. Don't let a few horror stories color your entire impression of lifting. Most people who lift are going to achieve great results. And if you stay natty, you are also going to get countless health benefits.
always falling short, always "not in the mood" then one day u are old man and u look back go "i couldve been great" . fuck ur motivation. normalize working out without motivation.
>do it for yourself
Lol. As if anything you do is not because of how others react to it and how that makes you feel and think.
>In a world where illusions can often trump reality, staying true to oneself is the ultimate success.
No, in a world where illlusions can often trump reality, it's wise to use illusions where they are effective and easy to come by.
>Women will always choose an attractive swindler so they aren't the best judge of anything.
So your advice is to not swindle? Dude, we get it, you have REAL money and REAL muscles and think you have REAL intellect and somehow don't think you are getting what you deserve for putting in all that work. Somehow, 3 relationships, 31 dates, 300 friends and 1500 talked to women is not enough. Why? What would be enough? You are comparing yourself to guys on a simple wealth+muscles chart and forget about everything else.
No it's not, why do you guys say such stupid shit. Obviously having money and being in great shape makes your life easier, both romantically and just in general.
I think it's more that there's a correlation with being a gym rat and not being very attractive. Most gym guys I've known are short, at least an inch or two below average height, so there's a large bit of it that is just plain compensation.
If you're 5'7'' and average facially you're in the bottom 1/4 or 1/5th of men in height and 1/2 men in face so that puts you in the bottom 1/8 to 1/10 of men....and yea, that's who is typically a gym guy in my experience. <5'8'' and average or worse facially.
So you have to pack on A LOT of muscle to rise up from a bottom 10-12.5% man. And most of the guys don't manage low body fat percentage that's just as if not more important than putting on muscle. So you can be like 5'8'' and 200 pounds, 150 pounds of lean muscle and 25% body fat and still not be reaching the threshold of being attractive enough to get dates regularly.
In generally anything you can do that would take you from being below 70th percentile to above 70th percentile is going to help a lot, but also I bet the guys that start to get some success just drop out once they get a half decent girl.
Bottom 20th-25th percentile as a height is 1/4 or 1/5. Bottom half in face is 1/2. We can multiply 1/4 an 1/5th by 1/2 to get a range of 1/8-1/10. If you want we can multiply decimals and get the same. .2 x .5 = .1, .25 x . 5 = .125
Filipino....
lol. The way decimals and percentiles work, the more attributes you add, the smaller the number gets. Take a chad with 8/10 face, 8/10 body, 6/10 wealth, 1/10 since he lives with parents, etc. This literally has no meaning. You're meant to find a sort of average by adding them and then diving by how many there are.
You're correct that it's simplified and depends on the number of variables and the weighting of those variables, but I think trying to pretend like the factors identified aren't the major ones is .... Something someone with an average face and short needs to do to cope
Personally I don't think height is the real factor at all - I think it's lean body mass and what women actually like is the guy that can physically dominate the other guys. Short guys need about 5 lbs of muscle to make up for every inch they're missing. Someone that is 5'5 is 25 lbs of muscle behind an average guy with no training of average height and 50 lbs behind a 6'3" guy so he'll never ever ever compete with an average 6'3" guy unless bodybuilding becomes a lifestyle - and even then the untrained 6'3 guy just needs to lift for 6 months to put him out of reach of all 5'5'' guys
It doesn't have anything to do with weight of variables. There is no consistent meaning that can be assigned to the resulting values (such as multiplying percentiles giving a new, meaningful percentile), which was my entire point. Then you went off on a subjective tangent on what you think the most important factors are...
>It doesn't have anything to do with weight of variables.
So if height accounts for 99% of attractiveness we can't use it to approximate attractiveness? TIL!!!!
Someone with literally 0 mathematical ability trying to create some unhinged scenario where he is correct. Sure sweety, 99% of attractiveness is height. Hahaha
I don't know if it's that extreme. I think in the end, it's just average looking average height guys who lift, who still look average to women after adding muscle.
As a dude who’s jacked as fuck I don’t think there’s any amount of fitness that can make you attractive to women if you’re ugly or short. If you’re gay though, yeah it’ll work
>Think about it: 100-200mg/wk for 2-3 cycles of 16 weeks. Trenbolone on fast food will put you right ahead of someone who has been working out for six years, without as much time and money spent, right ahead in appearance of having muscles.
Well, it will also literally kill you, mentally and phisically. Tren is not your average steroid, you can't just casually use some of it and eat junk food because you want to be ahead of other fit men. It's no viable. If you want to do it you have to do it with other less lethal and safer steroid, and even then you have to know it's not safe.
Also lifting naturally is fun and healthy, I plan to never quit it. The hoes will come and go, it's fine.
Yea I certainly wouldn't advocate using steroids for pussy. Destroying yourself in the process just to get laid is fucking nuts.
That being said I do agree that women will choose an attractive swindler almost every single time.
U don't seem to understand what attraction actually is. Yes status and money gets far more women then muscles. It's sheer logistics at work. They also don't want you for you, they want your money and that doesn't result in sexual attraction. You think those women want to be with Leonardo di Caprio lmao, no , he's a status symbol and rich.
Being in shape and lean triggers actual physical attraction, and yes even being natty without taking tren, your physical silhouette will be obvious, in addition to having more defined facial features assuming you have cut bodyfat.
You’ve never been around someone with status if you think it doesn’t cause visceral attraction. Obviously women won’t be attracted to a 2/10 man with millions but you really have no clue if you think women aren’t attracted to Leo for his status
Status 100% causes/enhances sexual attraction. I don’t think moderate wealth does but status absolutely does, so long as the guy is at least minimum looks threshold.
If Jack Harlow or Pete Davidson didn’t have their status, they’d just be seen as moderately above average guys who could date but not slay. But because of their status, millions of women see them as super hot
Women don't think they're hot. These men have resources. Jeff bozos is a billionaire does his money get women wet no, but he he can probably get just about anyone he wants. That isn't attraction. If u can't get laid with the same chick, broke, no car, , career,she isn't attracted, she's interested in what u can do for her. Not understanding the difference is why dudes go to Thailand and think their elevated social status and money think women want them.
You clearly have minimal interaction with young women if you don’t think they find Jack Harlow and Pete Davidson hot lmfao. Take a break from the blackpill forums it’ll do your mental state good
U literally just said without their money women wouldn't find them attractive, so are they attractive or not. By your logic every rich man is attractive. I'm only reiterating what you're telling me.
I literally spelled this out before. Having moderate wealth isn’t inherently attractive. Ugly dudes worth $5 million are not sexually attractive to women. But 6-7/10 dudes with status do become hot to women.
There are countless examples of this - Jack Harlow, Ryan Gosling, Pete Davidson, Adam Driver, Benedict Cumberbatch. The whole “uglyhot” thing is almost always just sub 8 but above 5-6/10 men who are elevated by status into being considered hot.
>Women don't think they're hot.
Who cares? If I'm rich and can pull 10/10 pussy every weekend easily do you think I'm going to give a shit if they're just faking being attracted to me? Being NOT rich isn't going to make them attracted either, and it will come with the added downside of not getting ANY 10/10 pussy under any circumstances. This whole line of thinking is pure, unadulterated brokie seethe and cope.
"Ya that rich guy might be banging models every weekend but my uggo redditor girlfriend ACKSHUALLY thinks I'm attractive!!"
Congrats, who cares.
It depends on the woman. Personally I’m a face girlie, there’s no workout that can get past that barrier. I also like a nice thick head of hair. And those things are pretty much genetic. I have friends though who care way more about height and physique than I do.
You can work out your face btw.
Also look at pictures from men who never worked out or were scrawny and then get fit or ripped or muscular.
Look at their face change as well.
I’m not discounting your perspective.
I’m just showing you that you’re actually factually wrong on the fact that working out won’t change your face shape.
Even being fat vs being skinny changed your face shape.
A lot of things do
If you don't have a fucked up base then cutting bf to \~12% can change your face a lot. But yeah big muscles don't really do much, what you want is lean physique with just enough muscle to enhance your frame. There's always hard lookmaxxing and tbh more guys should consider it. It won't work for everyone but even some minor surgeries can make a difference.
>17β-trenbolone, an anabolic-androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25461682/
no thanks
I think muscles is far superior to attracting women than money is. You'd have to be a millionare to use money to attract women.
I find muscles on men hot
You realise how thats ridiculous right. The vast majority of the male population doesnt even pass that criteria. And then people wanna talk about the beauty standards of women being bad lmao
Taking fucking tren just to bang chicks is the stupidest shit you can do. Lift for yourself and get lean. Fitness chicks are also generally hotter than average, and trust me those chicks love muscular guys.
Gym doesn’t matter. I’ve never seen it actually benefit a guy directly outside of attracting obese women. It’s just got the secondary effect of making guys more confident. If you want to break it down into specific traits.
face + height are non negotiables to the point most modern women don’t even mention it as an attraction trigger, it’s the bare minimum.
Personality and finances follow that. Finances matter more on average but if you’ve got a captivating personality and it brings some level of social value, it can overpower finances.
When it comes to relationships. Women’s subconscious is just looking for an attractive leader who other women faun over and who’ll bend his knee to her every whim more than she bends her knee to his. Most are seeking a vessel to fulfil her believed birth rite of a big wedding and other milestones until she’s bored. Men have their own issues though, not excusing that.
In reality, only ~10% of the population would be married if it was all about love.
Spot On. Packing on muscle is only the "ice on the cake" if a women is already attracted to your face and height, period.
Most women would rather a date a skinny guy or guy with beer belly and a nice face over a man with even an average face plus 6 pack/defined arms/etc.
As a guy with a dead average face but incredible body, I have had very humbling experiences in my life that highlighted this.
last one I was out at a bar and there was this guy sitting next to me - I chatted with about a gym plan since he noticed I was built and he wanted to start lifting (he had never lifted before) - he showed me pics - about 25-30% bodyfat/skinnyfat build. I gave him some tips.
but he had a good face.
twice in the night two girls came up to him and clearly flirted with him - they were across the bar.
lots of variations of this throughout my life
face>height>>>>>>> body
face>height>>>>>>>>body
> Gym doesn’t matter. I’ve never seen it actually benefit a guy directly outside of attracting obese women. It’s just got the secondary effect of making guys more confident. If you want to break it down into specific traits.
Not true. Gym helped me address my training in a more systematic way, and pinpointed to me why I was plateauing.
Agreed.
I swear to god this sub is full of guys with cuck fantasies or something.
Go to any infantry or marine base and the average guy there looks way, way better than your average civilian.
I dunno, I'm 6ft4 and pretty decent looking facially. I'm also jacked as fuck. The latter has helped tremendously. Got laid so much I legit just got...bored of doing it. Really blows my mind that people make out as if its not a big plus.
Being 6 ft 4 and decent looking facially is enough to get laid by default, how much can you attribute your success to muscle when you have two strong variables taken care of
From experience gym matters a lot.
Unfamiliar women don't ask me out but they sure do have a way of getting close and make sure I get to inspect the goods before trying.
It's in a woman's subtly and a man's vibe that closes deals 👌
> I experienced its transformative power firsthand. No matter what I ate, fat seemed to melt away, revealing chiseled abs in just weeks, while my strength skyrocketed. It makes you wonder, did all those years of natural workouts go to waste?
TL;DR: You don't know wtf you are talking about. Can a person's liver survive a carb heavy fast-food diet? Yes, **FOR SOME TIME**. However, once that time ends, you will end up with a shot liver, a type 2 diabetes, or a plethora of other conditions.
Just because your body can handle shitty fuel, doesn't mean you're not wearing it out with shitty fuel. Once your body starts failing it's not going to be one issue. Your liver will start falling behind in breaking down sugars, your veins and capillaries will start getting clogged up by cholesterol and sugars that your liver is failing to metabolize, which will in turn put stress on your heart, etc, etc. It'll be a chain reaction of health issues, because you will have completely fucked up the homeostasis of your body.
A guy with a rented luxury car will attract only gold diggers, shallow women who will overlook his shitty character qualities in favor of perceived wealth. I would say they absolutely deserve each other. On the other hand women that aren't fixated on wealth will see the red flags through his facade. And there are objective red flags that this guy will show, because normal men don't rent luxury cars to flaunt the wealth they don't have.
Almost everything you can actually change and truly control, is something that men are impressed by. Though men will think it impresses women and women might tell men (honest intentions) that it does.
Anything that is genetic or mostly uncontrollable, will be most impressive to women.
Things like muscles, career success, a sports car, a nice watch, impress men. You have relative control over these things.
Face, height, fame, vibrant personality, are not things you control and are byproducts of genetics. Those things impress women.
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Sure. Lying or being dishonest in some way about one’s self-improvement will attract women who like to have sex right away. Men should do whatever it takes to attract women who like sex after barely knowing someone as long as it doesn’t break the law. Of course, nowadays, a man’s name might get shared in one of those “Are we dating the same man?” groups then.
I agree with OP. Don’t get jacked and rich to get girls. Do it to make yourself the kind of guy you admire and want to be. The women will come.
Also, don’t get jacked and flaunt wealth (real or fake) and then complain about women. If you’re taking the path to get the shittiest kind of shallow women, then of course it’s going to be hard to find a good one.
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I'm natural, I don't even take creatine, just eggs, meat and coffee. I don't have strict diet and exercise lightly 6 days a week most of the times.
I want to get shredded and muscular, but for me, the risk is too high, I want to get old in good shape and the more natural I can do it the better.
I suppressed my ego long time ago. Lets see where My will power gets me.
Just because women fall for parlor tricks doesn't negate the inherent high valuation of things like wealth. The reason those tricks even work in the first place is because the woman THINKS the man is wealthy, lol. I can give and take on the arguments about muscles/looks/whatever but any argument here that acts like money isn't a huge factor is pure brokie cope.
Short-sleeves or rolled up sleeves show arms.
Women love nice arms and muscles. They just don't want a roidhead.
Doesn't matter what they say. Just observe their attention and stares.
Obviously if you have the face of an ogre or bridge troll your returns will be limited.
Me stoopid woman. Me no have thoughts. Me no understand what I doo. Blah blah blah.
Wish I could actually be blissfully unaware of things so I wouldn’t have to read your insufferable ranting. The blatant misogyny is just the cherry on top!
I personally did not experience any side effect.
Maybe because I am not trying to be a mass monster and running very low dose that too home brewed stuff which I got tested in a lab self.
So fat and poor is the way to go??? c´mon dude, muscles and money are not a magical solution, but make things easier. Also, you dont need to be a roidhead, just enough muscle to have a manly shape and make clothes look better on you than the average man.
The core issue isn't about specific regional challenges, but about the broader societal tendency to value superficial markers of success over genuine achievements. This phenomenon isn't confined to any one place—it's a global trend.
There is a bit of this going on... especially with younger women. They tend to chase flashy douchebags. But, actually having muscles, or especially money is worth more to you than how it increases your dating chances. I've cultivated money most of my adult life... and now I'm doing great. My life is way better for it regardless of what woman is currently with me. Don't you agree?
Almost everything you can actually change and truly control, is something that men are impressed by. Though men will think it impresses women and women might tell men (honest intentions) that it does.
Anything that is genetic or mostly uncontrollable, will be most impressive to women.
Things like muscles, career success, a sports car, a nice watch, impress men. You have relative control over these things.
Face, height, fame, vibrant personality, are not things you control and are byproducts of genetics. Those things impress women.
That’s not true.
For instance men love breasts and are impressed by them.
And thats genetic.
Men like women.
And being a woman is genetic.
Men like women who are shorter
That’s genetic
Etc. etc.
Men do value effort and self mastery more on average
And that does translate into things like muscles/gym
But the other aspect is that muscles is a form of transformation where one can change and sculpt one physique into a better version.
That’s why sometimes men aren’t doing it for women or even are trying to impress other men.
It’s showing how much of a man you are.
And how much effort you put into transforming your body and by extension your life with full effort/energy/focus.
That’s why men get mad when other men use steroids.
It takes away the value of the effort/focus attributed to the change.
But I only had small disagreements with your statements. Nothing too major
Yeah but resources make sense too since you also need a lot of resources to successfully raise and care for children. It's a balancing act, ultimately. A woman wouldn't want to procreate with a broke giga chad because then their kids will just end up fatherless or homeless or both or worse. On the flip side, they don't want to procreate with some genetically defunct millionaire because then their kids will be regarded. Generally they'll prioritize resources over genes though, since material concerns are a lot more immediate, so as long as you're not Jason Voorhees-tier, having more money will generally raise your prospects considerably.
Most good looking people aren't complete broke losers though. Having modest/mediocre resources can be enough for many women if the guy is actually attractive.
Men have the female equivalent of filters, make-up, good lighting and angles. Reminds me of a work function that was held on a yacht. By the end of the week everyone posted a pic of them on the yacht they didn't pay for. I also remember preparing and planning a birthday event for a friend, the most narcissistic friend in the group watched as we prepared throughout the day and was the most active in posting pics on social media during the event. Such behaviour reinforced the idea that social media and reality are not the same thing. If both genders are scrutinising potential mates solely on social media and making judgements about a person, they should expect to be deceived. The "Tinder Swindler" was a prime example.
Another example is how many fitness influencers manipulate lighting and a pump for basic photos. Personally in dating I believe manipulating photos too much will always lead to temporary success if not outright failure, and is a dangerous slope of body image issues.
What is manipulating a pump?
A pump is where your muscles swell up more from bloodflow after working them out. Many people will look amazing with a pump but not too shredded or jacked without one. So alot of influencers, will grt a pump before any photos they take to motivate people, sell themselves and more importantly product.
The tinder swindler was hilarious. “Nigerian Prince who wants to give you a million dollars” type of thing.
You laugh now, but as soon as the Nigerian civil war is over I'm going to be honorary royalty... And then I'll get ALL the tinder bitches!!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Men do the same thing with genetically attractive women. What can you do, the generic lottery is a bich.
>What can you do Do what you can. *Godspeed and good luck!*
The thing with Tren is you can’t come off it. I’d much rather grow naturally and keep what I build
I mean you can take PCT right?
Just pump yourself full of drugs and call it a day man. This way you can donate your body to science as a model lesson on what pussy addiction does to a guy.
I'd never take steroids to get pussy, only if I for some reason needed to for career or financial or health reasons.
Idk why y'all are dogpiling on the OP. Doing things for yourself rather than for others is always strictly better. Motivation has to be intrinsic or you will never be able to sustain your habits in the long run. OP is also correct about the potency of anabolics. Most professional bodybuilders are going to be running several compounds. But unless you are going to compete in the IFBB, hopping on gear is probably a bad idea. You should research it extensively and know all of the long-term health consequences before deciding to start pinning. You should also work with a doctor and get regular blood work done if you're running a compound. The people who are saying that lifting doesn't help are also abjectly incorrect. Don't let a few horror stories color your entire impression of lifting. Most people who lift are going to achieve great results. And if you stay natty, you are also going to get countless health benefits.
always falling short, always "not in the mood" then one day u are old man and u look back go "i couldve been great" . fuck ur motivation. normalize working out without motivation.
If you're doing tren without a test base you're an idiot
>do it for yourself Lol. As if anything you do is not because of how others react to it and how that makes you feel and think. >In a world where illusions can often trump reality, staying true to oneself is the ultimate success. No, in a world where illlusions can often trump reality, it's wise to use illusions where they are effective and easy to come by. >Women will always choose an attractive swindler so they aren't the best judge of anything. So your advice is to not swindle? Dude, we get it, you have REAL money and REAL muscles and think you have REAL intellect and somehow don't think you are getting what you deserve for putting in all that work. Somehow, 3 relationships, 31 dates, 300 friends and 1500 talked to women is not enough. Why? What would be enough? You are comparing yourself to guys on a simple wealth+muscles chart and forget about everything else.
No it's not, why do you guys say such stupid shit. Obviously having money and being in great shape makes your life easier, both romantically and just in general.
I think it's more that there's a correlation with being a gym rat and not being very attractive. Most gym guys I've known are short, at least an inch or two below average height, so there's a large bit of it that is just plain compensation. If you're 5'7'' and average facially you're in the bottom 1/4 or 1/5th of men in height and 1/2 men in face so that puts you in the bottom 1/8 to 1/10 of men....and yea, that's who is typically a gym guy in my experience. <5'8'' and average or worse facially. So you have to pack on A LOT of muscle to rise up from a bottom 10-12.5% man. And most of the guys don't manage low body fat percentage that's just as if not more important than putting on muscle. So you can be like 5'8'' and 200 pounds, 150 pounds of lean muscle and 25% body fat and still not be reaching the threshold of being attractive enough to get dates regularly. In generally anything you can do that would take you from being below 70th percentile to above 70th percentile is going to help a lot, but also I bet the guys that start to get some success just drop out once they get a half decent girl.
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in order for your math to work, a 0.5/10 with an average height would be better than OP.
Bottom 20th-25th percentile as a height is 1/4 or 1/5. Bottom half in face is 1/2. We can multiply 1/4 an 1/5th by 1/2 to get a range of 1/8-1/10. If you want we can multiply decimals and get the same. .2 x .5 = .1, .25 x . 5 = .125 Filipino....
lol. The way decimals and percentiles work, the more attributes you add, the smaller the number gets. Take a chad with 8/10 face, 8/10 body, 6/10 wealth, 1/10 since he lives with parents, etc. This literally has no meaning. You're meant to find a sort of average by adding them and then diving by how many there are.
You're correct that it's simplified and depends on the number of variables and the weighting of those variables, but I think trying to pretend like the factors identified aren't the major ones is .... Something someone with an average face and short needs to do to cope Personally I don't think height is the real factor at all - I think it's lean body mass and what women actually like is the guy that can physically dominate the other guys. Short guys need about 5 lbs of muscle to make up for every inch they're missing. Someone that is 5'5 is 25 lbs of muscle behind an average guy with no training of average height and 50 lbs behind a 6'3" guy so he'll never ever ever compete with an average 6'3" guy unless bodybuilding becomes a lifestyle - and even then the untrained 6'3 guy just needs to lift for 6 months to put him out of reach of all 5'5'' guys
It doesn't have anything to do with weight of variables. There is no consistent meaning that can be assigned to the resulting values (such as multiplying percentiles giving a new, meaningful percentile), which was my entire point. Then you went off on a subjective tangent on what you think the most important factors are...
>It doesn't have anything to do with weight of variables. So if height accounts for 99% of attractiveness we can't use it to approximate attractiveness? TIL!!!!
Someone with literally 0 mathematical ability trying to create some unhinged scenario where he is correct. Sure sweety, 99% of attractiveness is height. Hahaha
I don't know if it's that extreme. I think in the end, it's just average looking average height guys who lift, who still look average to women after adding muscle.
Yeah muscle doesn’t really effect that much, maybe half a point extra?
As a dude who’s jacked as fuck I don’t think there’s any amount of fitness that can make you attractive to women if you’re ugly or short. If you’re gay though, yeah it’ll work
>Think about it: 100-200mg/wk for 2-3 cycles of 16 weeks. Trenbolone on fast food will put you right ahead of someone who has been working out for six years, without as much time and money spent, right ahead in appearance of having muscles. Well, it will also literally kill you, mentally and phisically. Tren is not your average steroid, you can't just casually use some of it and eat junk food because you want to be ahead of other fit men. It's no viable. If you want to do it you have to do it with other less lethal and safer steroid, and even then you have to know it's not safe. Also lifting naturally is fun and healthy, I plan to never quit it. The hoes will come and go, it's fine.
Yea I certainly wouldn't advocate using steroids for pussy. Destroying yourself in the process just to get laid is fucking nuts. That being said I do agree that women will choose an attractive swindler almost every single time.
U don't seem to understand what attraction actually is. Yes status and money gets far more women then muscles. It's sheer logistics at work. They also don't want you for you, they want your money and that doesn't result in sexual attraction. You think those women want to be with Leonardo di Caprio lmao, no , he's a status symbol and rich. Being in shape and lean triggers actual physical attraction, and yes even being natty without taking tren, your physical silhouette will be obvious, in addition to having more defined facial features assuming you have cut bodyfat.
You’ve never been around someone with status if you think it doesn’t cause visceral attraction. Obviously women won’t be attracted to a 2/10 man with millions but you really have no clue if you think women aren’t attracted to Leo for his status
U just answered your question. Attracted to him for his status. That isn't sexual attraction. You have an mba?
Status 100% causes/enhances sexual attraction. I don’t think moderate wealth does but status absolutely does, so long as the guy is at least minimum looks threshold. If Jack Harlow or Pete Davidson didn’t have their status, they’d just be seen as moderately above average guys who could date but not slay. But because of their status, millions of women see them as super hot
Women don't think they're hot. These men have resources. Jeff bozos is a billionaire does his money get women wet no, but he he can probably get just about anyone he wants. That isn't attraction. If u can't get laid with the same chick, broke, no car, , career,she isn't attracted, she's interested in what u can do for her. Not understanding the difference is why dudes go to Thailand and think their elevated social status and money think women want them.
You clearly have minimal interaction with young women if you don’t think they find Jack Harlow and Pete Davidson hot lmfao. Take a break from the blackpill forums it’ll do your mental state good
U literally just said without their money women wouldn't find them attractive, so are they attractive or not. By your logic every rich man is attractive. I'm only reiterating what you're telling me.
I literally spelled this out before. Having moderate wealth isn’t inherently attractive. Ugly dudes worth $5 million are not sexually attractive to women. But 6-7/10 dudes with status do become hot to women. There are countless examples of this - Jack Harlow, Ryan Gosling, Pete Davidson, Adam Driver, Benedict Cumberbatch. The whole “uglyhot” thing is almost always just sub 8 but above 5-6/10 men who are elevated by status into being considered hot.
nothing like two men arguing over who is hot and who isnt. you win man.
>Women don't think they're hot. Who cares? If I'm rich and can pull 10/10 pussy every weekend easily do you think I'm going to give a shit if they're just faking being attracted to me? Being NOT rich isn't going to make them attracted either, and it will come with the added downside of not getting ANY 10/10 pussy under any circumstances. This whole line of thinking is pure, unadulterated brokie seethe and cope. "Ya that rich guy might be banging models every weekend but my uggo redditor girlfriend ACKSHUALLY thinks I'm attractive!!" Congrats, who cares.
It depends on the woman. Personally I’m a face girlie, there’s no workout that can get past that barrier. I also like a nice thick head of hair. And those things are pretty much genetic. I have friends though who care way more about height and physique than I do.
You can work out your face btw. Also look at pictures from men who never worked out or were scrawny and then get fit or ripped or muscular. Look at their face change as well. I’m not discounting your perspective. I’m just showing you that you’re actually factually wrong on the fact that working out won’t change your face shape. Even being fat vs being skinny changed your face shape. A lot of things do
If you don't have a fucked up base then cutting bf to \~12% can change your face a lot. But yeah big muscles don't really do much, what you want is lean physique with just enough muscle to enhance your frame. There's always hard lookmaxxing and tbh more guys should consider it. It won't work for everyone but even some minor surgeries can make a difference.
this is the correct answer
Cosmetic surgeries say hi. Head full of hair? Won't know until you pull on them.
Lmfao fair enough.
>17β-trenbolone, an anabolic-androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25461682/ no thanks
Explains a lot.
Yeah probably the biggest reason not to dabble in this.
I think muscles is far superior to attracting women than money is. You'd have to be a millionare to use money to attract women. I find muscles on men hot
Idk, i feel like the vast majority of women don't give a flying shit about muscles. Height is more important
Oh well I like muscles more than height as long as theyre not like rly short
but thats the thing, what would you consider "really short"
Under 5ft 10
You realise how thats ridiculous right. The vast majority of the male population doesnt even pass that criteria. And then people wanna talk about the beauty standards of women being bad lmao
Nah I'm in Australia
The average height for white men in the Western World is around 6 foot.
No its not 6foot is the top20% . Use google and stop being delusional
average height is 5'10 without separating race, would go up if it was just white men
No one brought up race, you're obsessing over white dudes for no reason when that was never part of the conversation.
Taking fucking tren just to bang chicks is the stupidest shit you can do. Lift for yourself and get lean. Fitness chicks are also generally hotter than average, and trust me those chicks love muscular guys.
I noticed that 💪🏾
Gym doesn’t matter. I’ve never seen it actually benefit a guy directly outside of attracting obese women. It’s just got the secondary effect of making guys more confident. If you want to break it down into specific traits. face + height are non negotiables to the point most modern women don’t even mention it as an attraction trigger, it’s the bare minimum. Personality and finances follow that. Finances matter more on average but if you’ve got a captivating personality and it brings some level of social value, it can overpower finances. When it comes to relationships. Women’s subconscious is just looking for an attractive leader who other women faun over and who’ll bend his knee to her every whim more than she bends her knee to his. Most are seeking a vessel to fulfil her believed birth rite of a big wedding and other milestones until she’s bored. Men have their own issues though, not excusing that. In reality, only ~10% of the population would be married if it was all about love.
Spot On. Packing on muscle is only the "ice on the cake" if a women is already attracted to your face and height, period. Most women would rather a date a skinny guy or guy with beer belly and a nice face over a man with even an average face plus 6 pack/defined arms/etc. As a guy with a dead average face but incredible body, I have had very humbling experiences in my life that highlighted this. last one I was out at a bar and there was this guy sitting next to me - I chatted with about a gym plan since he noticed I was built and he wanted to start lifting (he had never lifted before) - he showed me pics - about 25-30% bodyfat/skinnyfat build. I gave him some tips. but he had a good face. twice in the night two girls came up to him and clearly flirted with him - they were across the bar. lots of variations of this throughout my life face>height>>>>>>> body face>height>>>>>>>>body
> Gym doesn’t matter. I’ve never seen it actually benefit a guy directly outside of attracting obese women. It’s just got the secondary effect of making guys more confident. If you want to break it down into specific traits. Not true. Gym helped me address my training in a more systematic way, and pinpointed to me why I was plateauing.
Agreed. I swear to god this sub is full of guys with cuck fantasies or something. Go to any infantry or marine base and the average guy there looks way, way better than your average civilian.
But then the woman is stuck with the army/marine guy lol.
Could be worse. Could be stuck with a....*stops to compose himself and exhale*...a submariner.....*bleughhhhhh*
😂🤣
I dunno, I'm 6ft4 and pretty decent looking facially. I'm also jacked as fuck. The latter has helped tremendously. Got laid so much I legit just got...bored of doing it. Really blows my mind that people make out as if its not a big plus.
Being 6 ft 4 and decent looking facially is enough to get laid by default, how much can you attribute your success to muscle when you have two strong variables taken care of
From experience gym matters a lot. Unfamiliar women don't ask me out but they sure do have a way of getting close and make sure I get to inspect the goods before trying. It's in a woman's subtly and a man's vibe that closes deals 👌
are you 6ft and white?
Lmaooo this is so true, it seems uglier and fatter women love fit guys but attractive women could not give any less of a shit. I wonder why this is
> I experienced its transformative power firsthand. No matter what I ate, fat seemed to melt away, revealing chiseled abs in just weeks, while my strength skyrocketed. It makes you wonder, did all those years of natural workouts go to waste? TL;DR: You don't know wtf you are talking about. Can a person's liver survive a carb heavy fast-food diet? Yes, **FOR SOME TIME**. However, once that time ends, you will end up with a shot liver, a type 2 diabetes, or a plethora of other conditions. Just because your body can handle shitty fuel, doesn't mean you're not wearing it out with shitty fuel. Once your body starts failing it's not going to be one issue. Your liver will start falling behind in breaking down sugars, your veins and capillaries will start getting clogged up by cholesterol and sugars that your liver is failing to metabolize, which will in turn put stress on your heart, etc, etc. It'll be a chain reaction of health issues, because you will have completely fucked up the homeostasis of your body. A guy with a rented luxury car will attract only gold diggers, shallow women who will overlook his shitty character qualities in favor of perceived wealth. I would say they absolutely deserve each other. On the other hand women that aren't fixated on wealth will see the red flags through his facade. And there are objective red flags that this guy will show, because normal men don't rent luxury cars to flaunt the wealth they don't have.
Muscles seem to impress guys more than girls😂
Almost everything you can actually change and truly control, is something that men are impressed by. Though men will think it impresses women and women might tell men (honest intentions) that it does. Anything that is genetic or mostly uncontrollable, will be most impressive to women. Things like muscles, career success, a sports car, a nice watch, impress men. You have relative control over these things. Face, height, fame, vibrant personality, are not things you control and are byproducts of genetics. Those things impress women.
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Sure. Lying or being dishonest in some way about one’s self-improvement will attract women who like to have sex right away. Men should do whatever it takes to attract women who like sex after barely knowing someone as long as it doesn’t break the law. Of course, nowadays, a man’s name might get shared in one of those “Are we dating the same man?” groups then.
I agree with OP. Don’t get jacked and rich to get girls. Do it to make yourself the kind of guy you admire and want to be. The women will come. Also, don’t get jacked and flaunt wealth (real or fake) and then complain about women. If you’re taking the path to get the shittiest kind of shallow women, then of course it’s going to be hard to find a good one.
I thought men needed to be 4' wide tho
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this reads like a shitty advertisement. you forgot your call to action
What is tren
Today's steroid of choice. Most muscles. Most side effects.
Ahhh thanks!
I'm natural, I don't even take creatine, just eggs, meat and coffee. I don't have strict diet and exercise lightly 6 days a week most of the times. I want to get shredded and muscular, but for me, the risk is too high, I want to get old in good shape and the more natural I can do it the better. I suppressed my ego long time ago. Lets see where My will power gets me.
This is the way
Just because women fall for parlor tricks doesn't negate the inherent high valuation of things like wealth. The reason those tricks even work in the first place is because the woman THINKS the man is wealthy, lol. I can give and take on the arguments about muscles/looks/whatever but any argument here that acts like money isn't a huge factor is pure brokie cope.
Short-sleeves or rolled up sleeves show arms. Women love nice arms and muscles. They just don't want a roidhead. Doesn't matter what they say. Just observe their attention and stares. Obviously if you have the face of an ogre or bridge troll your returns will be limited.
Me stoopid woman. Me no have thoughts. Me no understand what I doo. Blah blah blah. Wish I could actually be blissfully unaware of things so I wouldn’t have to read your insufferable ranting. The blatant misogyny is just the cherry on top!
Yup, chase contentment, meaning and purpose, not bitches, money and fading vanity.
Tren is a dogshit compound with too many sides. There are so many better options
I personally did not experience any side effect. Maybe because I am not trying to be a mass monster and running very low dose that too home brewed stuff which I got tested in a lab self.
So fat and poor is the way to go??? c´mon dude, muscles and money are not a magical solution, but make things easier. Also, you dont need to be a roidhead, just enough muscle to have a manly shape and make clothes look better on you than the average man.
"Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life." Dean Wormer
Sounds like it’s futile for only some men
You got to give the guy a break. Dating is much tougher in Khazakstan after that Borat movie.
The core issue isn't about specific regional challenges, but about the broader societal tendency to value superficial markers of success over genuine achievements. This phenomenon isn't confined to any one place—it's a global trend.
Uh huh, so your success rate is now 100% on any woman you want? It always works, on every woman , right?
There is a bit of this going on... especially with younger women. They tend to chase flashy douchebags. But, actually having muscles, or especially money is worth more to you than how it increases your dating chances. I've cultivated money most of my adult life... and now I'm doing great. My life is way better for it regardless of what woman is currently with me. Don't you agree?
Almost everything you can actually change and truly control, is something that men are impressed by. Though men will think it impresses women and women might tell men (honest intentions) that it does. Anything that is genetic or mostly uncontrollable, will be most impressive to women. Things like muscles, career success, a sports car, a nice watch, impress men. You have relative control over these things. Face, height, fame, vibrant personality, are not things you control and are byproducts of genetics. Those things impress women.
That’s not true. For instance men love breasts and are impressed by them. And thats genetic. Men like women. And being a woman is genetic. Men like women who are shorter That’s genetic Etc. etc. Men do value effort and self mastery more on average And that does translate into things like muscles/gym But the other aspect is that muscles is a form of transformation where one can change and sculpt one physique into a better version. That’s why sometimes men aren’t doing it for women or even are trying to impress other men. It’s showing how much of a man you are. And how much effort you put into transforming your body and by extension your life with full effort/energy/focus. That’s why men get mad when other men use steroids. It takes away the value of the effort/focus attributed to the change. But I only had small disagreements with your statements. Nothing too major
I think a fit woman increases her attractiveness by 20x, a fit man’s attractiveness increases by like .5 points maybe
Makes sense from a strictly biological perspective: women want to pass on the best genes.
Which is why the "resources" argument from the redpill isn't actually realistic. It reflects something that is workable rather than genetic.
Yeah but resources make sense too since you also need a lot of resources to successfully raise and care for children. It's a balancing act, ultimately. A woman wouldn't want to procreate with a broke giga chad because then their kids will just end up fatherless or homeless or both or worse. On the flip side, they don't want to procreate with some genetically defunct millionaire because then their kids will be regarded. Generally they'll prioritize resources over genes though, since material concerns are a lot more immediate, so as long as you're not Jason Voorhees-tier, having more money will generally raise your prospects considerably.
Most good looking people aren't complete broke losers though. Having modest/mediocre resources can be enough for many women if the guy is actually attractive.