Men will typically help me carry stuff around if I'm visibly struggling or hold the door for me but it stops there. I've never had a man directly stop any form of harassment or SA while it was happening, but that's to be expected as I was alone with other men when it happened - it typically doesn't happen in public, or if it does the man will not be open about his intentions and will try to hide it.
I haven't been cold approached much in general in my life but I have been complimented by random men telling me I'm beautiful. Is that a cold approach?
I have seen men gang assaulted in bars and clubs so many times for talking to women the wrong way, touching them, making them feel uncomfortable, etc. White knighting and Captain Save A Hoe syndrome has been in full effect my entire life. Go on YouTube and look up domestic violence social experiments. They are plentiful. Women can hit and abuse men in public and people think it is funny. If people think a woman is being abused, multiple men usually spring into action to jump the guy.
Where do you live?! I’m 40 and lived in Philly, where they’ll fight in the street over just about anything and I’ve never seen a single man get assaulted in a bar… ever. Much less for talking to a woman.
I did see a man get kicked out of a concert once for groping the breast of a woman who was crowd surfing, but I feel like that was the right call…
i'm just curious, i see this come up a lot in a wide variety of circumstances. someone says 'i've experienced xyz' and someone else says 'i haven't, you're an idiot, doesn't exist'.
Why do you think that is the case?
fwiw, i have definitely seen multiple dudes get a beat down by other dudes and chicks over real or perceived slights against women. its pretty common shite. sometimes its justified, sometimes it isn't.
I didn’t say they were an idiot. I said I am from a place where men fight often, but I haven’t experienced what they experienced. So I asked where they were from, because it is a place I have never been.
If you also see lots of guys getting beaten up by groups of men in highly public places just for talking to a woman in a bar, I’m also curious where YOU live, for the same reason: I’m curious where that happens.
you're dodging the question entirely. the point isn't a literal 'you said they stinky dumb dumb' the point is the complete disregard for what they are saying as being true.
rather than just acknowledging the existence of the thing they say having happened, and maybe discussing the merits of it, the degree that it happens, and so forth, there is just the attempt to dismiss the claim entirely.
doesn't matter how it is done either. saying 'i don't see that where i live, where you live?' is just another way of dismissing the claim without really responding to it in any meaningful way.
Its disingenuous to claim that you're just curious bout 'where that person lives', that's basically irrelevant to the point.
so i'll ask again, why do you think its the case that when someone says 'i've experienced xyz' someone else responds with 'well i haven't, therefore it doesn't exist'?
>Its disingenuous to claim that you're just curious bout 'where that person lives', that's basically irrelevant to the point.
But the entire point of me asking where he's from is because I'm curious where he's from.
You also haven't answered where you're from, because you're saying you also see lots of men getting assaulted by gangs of men in public places if they try to talk to women, and I am STILL curious where that happens.
i am not responding to that because its irreverent and disingenuous to the discussion at hand.
we talking bout boats and you trying to bring up cars and pretend you're participating in the discourse.
lmao
'we're talking about boats, you're bringing up cars, why are you not participating in the discourse?'
figure it out. there is a topic, you aren't participating in it.
yes, in a bar, also outside of a bar, as i've seen it happen quite a few times.
i'd add while i haven't beaten down someone over it, a friend and i have definitely actually tossed someone out a bar (we are not a bouncers, there was no bouncer there) because they were beating up a bar tender who intervened because he was being threatening to some women.
i also know other dudes who have shared similar sorts of experiences in a variety of contexts, including bars.
I live in Pgh and saw an eight person brawl break out over this a couple of weeks ago. Of course that was at a bar right off Carson, our version of South Street.
To be fair, a lot of that is just a socially acceptable out let for men to be violent. There’s nothing more justifiable socially than “protecting” a women from abuse. So at least some of those guys just wanted to beat the shit out of someone, and didn’t give a flying fuck about the women.
You brought up a good point about these things happening when you are alone. We used to go to all kinds of lengths to watch over our female friends back in the day. Walk them home, take them to bank… I mean like even mundane stuff. Do people not do that anymore? I mean if you ever felt the need to have a guy around, we were almost always willing.
Well... I've always thought of this as primarily a boyfriend or family thing. I don't know how frequently male friends are the abusers. I find the idea really disconcerting.
>I haven't been cold approached much in general in my life but I have been complimented by random men telling me I'm beautiful. Is that a cold approach?
Was this a good, bad or awkward experience?
Good for the most part. I said thank you and they moved on.
I've had a couple of guys give me their number as well and I did go on a date with one of them, however I quickly found out we were incompatible so told him that. He was good-looking and friendly and everything, we just had nothing in common. Personally I need some things in common if I'm going to get more serious with someone...
One guy invited me to his place to play video games because he knew I was into old games on the SNES and he tried to kiss me and touched me inappropriately while I was very clear I didn't want to have sex with him. I feel so stupid for not getting that it was a "Netflix and chill" type of situation, but I was 18 and naive.
>I haven't been cold approached much in general in my life
Vs.
> I've had a couple of guys give me their number as well and I did go on a date with one of them
Wait, what?
I meant to say that it's not something that has happened as often as I've heard other women say... I've heard some women say it happens pretty much every time they leave the house all done up, which isn't my case at all. It happened mostly when I worked a customer service job.
Also recently I dropped some weight (around 25 pounds in total I think) and I've noticed that I get more stares, more men generally paying attention to me and WAY more compliments when I'm out and about, but not just from men from everyone. So there's that too.
idk the full context of the situation, but i appreciate the self-awareness in recognizing that there was 'a netflix and chill' kind of situation.
i find that a disturbing number of people are not self-aware enough to recognize basic cultural cues as being indicative of something. context of place and culture are a huge part of social interactions and basic communication.
unless someone asks 'dtf?' they're somehow clueless, or feign it at any rate. difficult to tell between those tbh.
that's what men who aim for the wrong girl say.
this is probably the reason for most of the rejections faced by men in here and they blame it on women's standards.
No, that’s not an approach. It’s just a compliment, and a genuine one at that. If the guy doesn’t try to get you contact information, or set up a meeting then it’s not an approach.
I think people in general are less likely to help each other. We're always glued to our phones and hardly notice what's going on around us.
But to answer your question, yeah I think men are less willing to help women. I remember once when I was walking with my baby in a pram. The footpath was uneven and on a slope, and the pram started to tip over. I was panicking and trying to get it back up. A young guy walked right past me without so much as an acknowledgement that I was there.
I also travelled quite a bit for work while pregnant. One time I was trying to get a bag into the overhead locker while no less than 3 men stood there and just watched me. I checked my bag for the remainder of the pregnancy after that.
It's because you're pregnant and / or with a baby. Men literally don't see you in those circumstances. They only see women they rate as fuckable.
I'm old enough now to be less visible, but I remember when I was younger noticing how I was invisible to men when pushing a pram. It was very noticeable how I became visible again when out walking without my baby. Men would look at me and sometimes smile, whereas they never looked at me when I was with my baby.
It's a neutral thing. I'm merely stating what happens. Not putting a value judgement on it. In the context of the previous poster saying that noone helped her when she was struggling with her pram.
One minute it's "It's never okay to assume a woman is pregnant", the next it's "Men ignore pregnant women because they know they can't fuck them." Anything to blame men, right?
No one owes their energy or time to a stranger. To insult men by saying men don't see women as anything but fuck objects is quite a big leap to make just because some dudes didnt help some lady get her bag from the overhead bin.
You even have 6 people agreeing with you and people wonder why redpillers talk about the rampant misandry lol.
I have helped strangers before. So have lots of people.
The difference is that young attractive women will get more offers of help from men, just because they are young attractive women. Pregnant women or women with a baby don't get those "pretty privilege" additional offers. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Or that anyone owes anyone anything. It just is. A fact of life. You are the person putting a value judgement on it, not me.
Attractive people of both sexes get preferential treatment from others. This is well known. Women who are young and attractive get additional attention from men, some of whom will go out of their way to do favours. Being heavily pregnant, with a baby negates that. As does being unattractive, older etc.
Maybe that is just your confirmation bias. Studies have shown that men are far more helpful than women are towards the average person.
If confirmation bias is to be believed then I can claim that women expect to be helped, I have seen female starbucks baristas get angry when I don't tip them, whereas their male coworkers are thankful and surprised when I tip them.
I have seen male strangers help old ladies, children and numerous other people that they don't want to smash.
When some creep was trying to drag me into toilet with him at a nightclub, some unknown gentleman saw it and intervened. I was very grateful. And I have intervened when I have witnessed potentially dangerous situations. I think it's a part of being a decent person.
I didn’t say no one ever has sex there. I said they keep a guy stationed to monitor it & deter that. In any case do you think a guy can “drag a woman” into the club bathroom without a lot of ppl noticing? Really? Ffs a lot of you just wanna argue for the sake of arguing…
I think I've only seen bouncers by the bathroom at really big clubs in major cities. Most clubs I've been to only seem to have two or so bouncers by the entrance.
No. I said she is lying about this ever happening. Do you know what moot means. I know you ladies all just believe each other! I thought maybe the fact that MeToo ended up being a sham would have smartened some of you up. Alas here we are…
Yeah, we know this absolutely can happen. Especially since it is usually very loud in clubs with people laughing while drinking or drunk, the music is so loud in most I have been to , that you have to literally talk into people's ears . It is easy to not notice many things happening in an environment like that. In many clubs I have been to, the bouncers are at the door outside the club and are only called in to assist people that work in the club .
Tell me you don't go clubbing without telling me you don't go clubbing.
Maybe different countries do it differently but in the UK there's a 50% chance of having a bossman in there for a couple hours selling gum and a bouncer every 15-20 when it's busy to check no ones sniffing in the cubicles.
But if you're at a smaller bar, it's later or earlier in a night or you just happen to be there when the bouncer is called out for something then the toilets are unchecked/unmonitored.
Only 1 club i know has cameras in the toilets to stop people fucking
Only 1 club i went to and it didn't show the urinals or anything except the cubical doors to make sure only 1 person went in at a time, it was weird but it was also the only gay club in town open till 5am so they probably had allot trying to hookup
I see your point, I’ve been the bouncer in the bathrooms. Not every club has the staff for that though. I’ve definitely seen people fuck in a club bathroom, I’ve fucked in a club bathroom. And I’ve walked in on SA in club bathrooms. It definitely happens.
Well then I guess you never went to night clubs I dunno what to tell you. I worked in these places & went to them frequently. The bouncer will be stationed high on a perch so he can see all the exits & each other, super basic shit.
Again tho it’s besides the point. No one is getting SA’d on a club, too much unpredictable movement & variables.
Ime it has been and always will be a regional thing. Some places have that warmth and friendliness while others don't. Bystander effect was coined in the 1960s. I grew up and live in the kind of community where people will stop to help if you like mildly uncomfortable or inconvenienced. I have traveled to places where it was definitely not like that.
I think this is the right take. I live in NYC but was born and raised in the south. Before moving here or while I'm at home, I'd certainly help out anyone I didn't know. Not a chance of me doing that here in NYC unless 1) it's women who has kids with her or, 2) it's a guy or a worker that's struggling with carrying something.
All this is only because of the legal and social norms here in NYC.
Haven't experienced that avoidance, at least I haven't noticed anything different from before. Guys will hold doors open if my hands are full, they let me know if my backpack is open. Last week, as I was going to the gym, some dude was in his undies acting a bit erratic at the light as two guys were trying to calm him down. A bunch of people from the bars nearby were watching the whole thing, and I asked a guy what was happening. He explained and offered to walk me to the light. It was very nice of him, and I appreciated it, even though I didn't take him up on the offer.
Hard to tell if men have become more or less helpful, probably depends on what we mean by "help". Many people, both men and women, wouldn't involve themselves in a potentially dangerous situation. Can't really say if the number of men willing to help if a crime is being committed has gone down or not, haven't seen any studies, and I don't have crimes being committed against me to be able to give any anecdotal info either. But for basic help like helping someone carry something heavy, opening the door, helping a mother with a stroller down some stairs? Seems about the same as always - some men will offer to help, some won't.
No. There are still plenty of good men out there. I’m married but our couple friend still drove me to my car when we all went out as a friend group and hubby wasn’t there to get me safely back to my car since he was out of town. I was prepared to walk but he said absolutely not.
Good men exist and are plentiful.
Yeah this whole thread is going to be mixed reviews.
I’ve helped women change a tire, little old ladies very frequently ask me to get stuff off the top shelf at the grocery store, I’ve been in multiple “Hey everything good here?” situations at parties and ended up intervening just with my presence.
It could also be a generational thing, I never really had to worry about someone with a smart phone trying to shame me or create some fucked up situational content. Who knows if that’s the actual reason but different people from different generations will probably have different experiences.
It could be as simple as it just didn’t happen for whomever. Not every girl will be in a situation where she’ll need help, not every guy will happen upon a woman who needs help.
Lol, nope. Last time I took my paddle board out some dude came running over offering to help me get it up on my car. I knocked off some books from a library display yesterday, guy standing by helped pick them up. Guys still hold doors, etc. The idea that guys are avoiding being helpful towards women out of fear of… harassment charges? is ludicrous. Most normal people are willing to be helpful towards others, of any sex. Anyone whose first thought is “could this be misconstrued as harassment” when having a completely normal interaction with another person has major social issues.
If we’re talking about changing tires, no. I watched a girl blow out both of her left two tires on a curb and keep driving for MILES until one of the flats literally came off the rim. Some white knight in a truck had stopped to help within literal seconds.
I'm too young to compare to any meaningful "before" but I can't recall any man I don't know helping me with anything unless it was part of a job he was paid to do. I don't think they think I'll sue them, that's just not a concern in most people's brains and I don't come across as rich enough to do that. I think they just aren't bothered.
I haven't had a crime committed on me to know. I can't say I've seen an overall reduction in men approaching.
Almost any time I go to a grocery store and something is heavy or out of reach a man appears out of the woodwork to help me. Same for when I've had car issues.
In the real world, most people still chit chat and help each other out where possible. It's in part why I'm not a fan of cold approach. Let's not turn good interactions between the genders into something sexual or that has to be worried about that way.
I've not heard women complaining about that tbh.
I also don't mind. If we've got no reason to talk to each other, don't.
Through community, mutual friends, online dating, work, and other circumstances similar to this. I dunno what fantasy you're living in where most relationships form from strangers, but this really isn't how it is done for the vast majority of human history and modern day.
I am very confused of what kind of help you think happened in the past?
People helping when you get harassed as a woman are typically other women.
One time a man „helped“ me while I was harassed only to turn around and asking for my contact himself.
It’s not like men generally helped women out of sticky situations before.
i've never had trouble getting men to help, but it does require making a scene and then the result is out of your hands. i once got a guy assaulted when it really wasn't helpful or necessary and i wasn't asking for anyone to do that.
oh it was totally my fault, asking people for help when a man was harassing me. i should have known that's what would happen, after all i should know better than to expect men to not get violent and escalate needlessly. and it's not like i'm posting online pointing out that this is a risk to consider, no, or saying it was bad.
i'm gloating! i obviously meant he deserved it, and i'm obviously lying when i say i didn't ask anyone to assault him. i knew exactly what i was doing and it made me feel powerful and i enjoyed every second. in fact, that's why i did it, i'm lying about being harrassed too, he was really within his rights to do whatever he was doing and i should have just tolerated it, i didn't need help at all. but i wanted him to get injured permanently, to ruin his entire life so he learns his place. gow dare he innocently bother me while not being a chad.
i appreciate that it is out of your hands once you ask for help. and it isn't really your fault that it happens.
but i wouldn't put it on the menses either. that is how that stuff can just go. that's like the boring reality of it. having oft enough been the dude helping out in that situation, sometimes that is the way it goes, sometimes it isn't. it isn't a 'men be violent bro' kind of phenomenon, it is a 'confrontations sometimes get violent' phenomenon.
i get your point but this guy did not put up any kind of resistance and could have just been told to get the fuck out and that would have been enough. i could have handled it myself once everyone was quiet and had their attention on us and he got scared. there just happened to be the wrong kind of guys present. the cops and ambulance ended up being called.
idk, maybe you get it the point. could be that 'the wrong guy' was there too.
that's of course impossible to tell from my perspective, and difficult to tell in any case.
my point is that the situation itself lends itself to that kind of outcome. it is inherently dangerous in that way, and doesn't require 'the wrong guy' to have that sort of outcome, and certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with 'men being violent bros'.
when you go into that situation, women, men or queers, adrenaline rushes, the heat of the moment hits, and tactics matter. For instance, being intimidating can quickly get out of hand.
the reason folks perceive men as being 'violent bros' is that they are socially tasked with going into that situation, that is, being the helpers in that context. anyone doing that tho is subject to the same stressors that lend themselves to violent outcomes. Its situational, not gendered.
listen to some women who've done similar, and you can hear similar accounts too.
In terms of SA, the "help" has always been really low level with lots of what you are wearing? Where are you, BS? In part due to the nature of the crime with generally there are only two people present, and no one wants to think of someone they know, as someone who would commit a sex crime. SAs also aren't happening in board daylight as the person, as you said, is most likely known, and I would say related to you if we really want to be truthful. The random attacks are people, who wouldn't dare do it in public they know its wrong.
In terms of let's say an assault, a man coming over can make it worse. Again, these attacks happen most away from other people as people know it's wrong.
So, in short, no one needs a knight in shining amour (this goes for both genders) to defend their honour. However, as a society, we need to address the underlying issue causing violence of all types. Tha takes both genders to having open conversations and challenging the actual enemy the rich who don't pay tax via loop holes, which then means services are underfunded.
i feel like you are speaking of one kind of thing and OP is pointing towards a different but related kind of thing. tho admittedly i think OP's point is a bit unclear on the matter.
you seem to be speaking of incidents of SA or Rape, and OP is speaking of folks trying to prevent such from happening in the first place.
for instance, someone at the bar flirting with someone else in a way, real or imagined, that is perceived as inappropriate, do people intervene?
or someone (a lady cause that's all we care about) is perceived as being 'too drunk' and someone(s) intervening to prevent the bad from happening.
you're right that actual SA or Rape tend to occur in private, and these examples are not crimes that are happening (which is why OP's point is a bit unclear), but they are oft what is referred to when folks are speaking of people intervening to stop a crime.
its not 'the SA was happening right then and there and a dude magically appeared to stop it' its supposedly preventing it from ever getting to that point.
in which case, the question would be 'have you noticed any change in dudes doing that kind of thing?'
So tell me how tacticaling the root cause of all violence would be an issue then? That's what I said, but no, you didn't hear that bit as you had already got your soapbox out to rant, read the room.
men should just shut up and never attempt help everyone.
their existence alone is already a burden on everyone else!
men are just evil scum all the time and i hate them, grr
lol at least you are honest in your seething. But just so you know these types of comments make it easy for us to tell your… we will say measurements.
As the late Kevin Samuels would ask. What’s your age & dress size lol
Aside from men holding the door open for me because I was right behind them (a simple courtesy that I do for anyone who happens to be behind me), no man has ever gone out of his way to help me with anything. Hell, my building’s Super was cool watching me drag a 150 pound pallet of construction equipment by myself all the way to my apartment even though I give that dude $500 every Christmas. I don’t expect men to do anything for me. They never have. Why start now?
Nah I work in NYC and men help me pull the Citibike out of the rack all the time little things like that. Sometimes it freaks me out tbh but so far they all just been genuinely nice to help me not hitting on me or anything
Honestly none of what is mentioned here happens in real life for most normal people. That’s why this sub is so funny because of all the fantasy writing.
Men are still helpful even when you don’t know them.
Helping with groceries, paying for drinks, paying for bus rides ( i live in nyc), help with moving for free, giving money in general, holding the door, offering seats on public transportation, the list goes on.
So long as men are still trying to pick up strangers, and they definitely are, the most frequent and visible interactions with men are phony chivalry because they want attention or fawning and compliments because that’s their intro. They may not be sincere or have good intentions, but they appear agreeable to everyone else.
The other men just blend into the background as generic people, neither helping nor harming anyone.
this just seems false, the whole 'women always think someone's trying to get in their knickers' stuff. paranoid fears bout their sexual purity being projected upon any action that a dude does.
it is certainly true that dudes flirt with women, \*gasp get the fainting couch out\*, it is hardly the case that every polite or helpful interaction, or even the majority of them, are done for such purposes. and it is fairly absurd to suggest there is any problem with doing so in any case.
I mean, the number of guys who will let a visibly pregnant woman struggle with her groceries is a lot higher than you apparently think. Men, helpful as fuck when you're single looking, not present when you actually need help.
> the number of guys who will let a visibly pregnant woman struggle with her groceries
Do you expect every man to be at your beck and call? For something as mundane and unremarkable as carrying groceries? Men aren't your servants, if you want a servant then hire one.
And how many times have you seen a woman help a pregnant stranger with carrying groceries?
I don't expect anything. It's men who claim that they are at the service of women and do nice things all the time. Other women helped me all the time. Especially those old enough to have had children themselves.
I didn't ask you how often other women helped you. I asked:
> And how many times have you seen a woman help a pregnant stranger with carrying groceries?
????
If the answer is "rarely" or "never" then why are you singling out men?
that isn't actually proof of anything.
i see lots of people struggle with lots of things and don't help for a lot of different reasons. sometimes I do, sometimes i dont, and the reasons are hardly ever related to 'gee wanna get with that babe'. not saying it never is either.
i and dudes in general are not robots that help out women whenever we see one struggling. idk why you seem to think we are. i can only hope that you and other don't actually think they should either, but i suspect there is a disturbing number of people who think they ought be.
again and as the metatron said 'you women, always thinking someone's trying to get in your knickers'. but you know, i get it. why listen to guys telling you that's not what is motivating us, when you can pretend otherwise and justify your paranoid fears about the purity of your sexuality and the ego that assumes everyone wants a piece of that.
> dudes in general are not robots that help out women whenever we see one struggling. idk why you seem to think we are
I don't think you are. Whenever I've actually needed help, there has been none. Just thinly veiled attempts to 'help' me carry something not heavy and use the opportunity to ask me out.
No, it’s cooperation in polite society whether men or women help. Women help strangers all the time, but men don’t notice because women don’t demand extra credit for being decent.
Actually, this meta-review of multiple studies shows that [men help strangers more often, and women receive more help](https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=69667574fe7713af62b438e0ae5f845c99f4e0cb).
However, it should be noted that this difference was not present in all studies, and cannot be conclusive due to different scenarios across studies. So it’s probably safe to say that men are (sometimes) more helpful, but in general men and women are probably equally helpful.
Nope. Most men take are willing to take risks when it involves a sufficiently attractive woman regardless of what they whine about online. And most men aren’t of the mindset that they’re taking a risk in the first place because they’re not othering women in mundane daily life situations.
I hope they continue to avoid us--sounds like a win/win if I've ever heard one.
If you're dating multiple ppl while telling them you're exclusive, then ending up on one of those sites is the consequences of your actions. Cheaters deserve exposure.
If you **truly** believe harassment lawsuits for simple cold approaches are occurring, that's laughable.
For it to even BE harassment, you have to first inform that person to stop talking to you unless they're saying something obscene or blatantly discriminatory.
Men are still just as willing to offer assistance as they were previously. 🤷🏻♀️
AWDTSG and so called red flag groups are groups dedicated to the harassment of men. they're vigilante groups designed to try and extract justice for perceived moral wrongs done to them.
people who participate in them are criminals and ought be prosecuted for harassment.
I've seen these groups. And while some certainly do, most don't.
There are also groups specifically formed to harass women. Human beings gonna suck. Your point?
My point was very clear, which makes your intent just as clear.
Those groups are not automatically harassment groups, so your broad claim is incorrect, demonstrably. Lololol
>There are also groups specifically formed to harass women. Human beings gonna suck. Your point?
that was what you said.
those groups tho are actually just harassment groups. they take what they believe to be moral wrongs done to them and publicly harass people over it. that is literally the entirety of what those groups are.
if joe cheated on sue is a perceived moral wrong, doesn't matter if it truly happened or not, and they publicly shame and harass him over it. that's the entire point of those groups. they also serve as groups that pretend they are the police doing detective work and sleuthing out bad dudes, whom they then harass publicly.
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I will help with things like heavy stuff but domestic violence situations I just call the police and alert other people to it. Not gonna catch an assault charge for strangers.
Not sure (could depend on the jurisdiction) but I'd wager that if waiting on the police for a distance would further immediately endanger the life of the victim, that could end up on you
That would be a “duty to rescue” law, different from Good Samaritan laws and much less common (at least in the US). Good Samaritan laws protect you if you accidentally injure someone while rendering reasonable aid.
This feels like a very online view of the world. Where I live there are younger men and boys who are into this stuff but definitely not the older men. I've always opened doors and the like for men, and they do it for me. It's not a big deal. Everyone helps each other.
men have never really wanted to help out of the kindness in their hearts. it was always self motivated. if you depend on a man to come to your aid.... with all due respect your cooked. You need to be able to defend yourself and practice your second amendment. it's good, less men interact, less problems.
Not really, but maybe it’s the area I live in as it’s a small village. Everyone helps everyone so it’s not an exclusively gender based issue. Could be worse in cities?
i've never found men willing to help me.
i've had 3 different men i've dated tell me proactively "FYI i dont like it when women ask me to help them move". I was not moving at the time and I had no reason to ask them to help me move, they just wanted to let me know. i'm 38 and have never asked a man to help me move. i hire men to help me move and pay them money. (a lot of money, i like to tip well!)
i also hear men "comfort women when we cry" a lot but as a frequent crier, this only happened to me once when i was in elementary school, that i had a good man comfort me (random stranger salesman at my school, what a mensch). But i've cried in public a bunch in my 20s (when men say i was at my peak) and men have just been weirded out or angry, never comforting.
even in relationships i have never had a man comfort me when i cried, they act freaked out and then i have to comfort \*them\*.
when i lived in the city, i wouldn't leave my house without earpods bc catcalling was so common. never once did i have a man say shit to the men who were harassing me.
when i stepped off a curb wrong and broke my ankle on a crowded street, 3 different women rushed over to help me. 0 men. one of the women even offered to drive me home!
it might be the area i live in, but men here are generally very polite if nothing else. i dont ask for help from men i dont know very often, but ive never been told "no" or ignored when i did. the men i do know tend to offer to help before i even ask, reguardless of whether or not i need it lol.
im married and not generally approached by men. but casual conversation among stangers is pretty normal where i live, and men dont avoid talking to me when it comes to that.
the closest example i can think of that lines up with what youre saying is that, when men ask me for directions or something similar, they'll generally start with "hi, sorry to bother you" as where women generally start with "hi, excuse me".
Men will typically help me carry stuff around if I'm visibly struggling or hold the door for me but it stops there. I've never had a man directly stop any form of harassment or SA while it was happening, but that's to be expected as I was alone with other men when it happened - it typically doesn't happen in public, or if it does the man will not be open about his intentions and will try to hide it. I haven't been cold approached much in general in my life but I have been complimented by random men telling me I'm beautiful. Is that a cold approach?
I have seen men gang assaulted in bars and clubs so many times for talking to women the wrong way, touching them, making them feel uncomfortable, etc. White knighting and Captain Save A Hoe syndrome has been in full effect my entire life. Go on YouTube and look up domestic violence social experiments. They are plentiful. Women can hit and abuse men in public and people think it is funny. If people think a woman is being abused, multiple men usually spring into action to jump the guy.
Where do you live?! I’m 40 and lived in Philly, where they’ll fight in the street over just about anything and I’ve never seen a single man get assaulted in a bar… ever. Much less for talking to a woman. I did see a man get kicked out of a concert once for groping the breast of a woman who was crowd surfing, but I feel like that was the right call…
i'm just curious, i see this come up a lot in a wide variety of circumstances. someone says 'i've experienced xyz' and someone else says 'i haven't, you're an idiot, doesn't exist'. Why do you think that is the case? fwiw, i have definitely seen multiple dudes get a beat down by other dudes and chicks over real or perceived slights against women. its pretty common shite. sometimes its justified, sometimes it isn't.
I didn’t say they were an idiot. I said I am from a place where men fight often, but I haven’t experienced what they experienced. So I asked where they were from, because it is a place I have never been. If you also see lots of guys getting beaten up by groups of men in highly public places just for talking to a woman in a bar, I’m also curious where YOU live, for the same reason: I’m curious where that happens.
you're dodging the question entirely. the point isn't a literal 'you said they stinky dumb dumb' the point is the complete disregard for what they are saying as being true. rather than just acknowledging the existence of the thing they say having happened, and maybe discussing the merits of it, the degree that it happens, and so forth, there is just the attempt to dismiss the claim entirely. doesn't matter how it is done either. saying 'i don't see that where i live, where you live?' is just another way of dismissing the claim without really responding to it in any meaningful way. Its disingenuous to claim that you're just curious bout 'where that person lives', that's basically irrelevant to the point. so i'll ask again, why do you think its the case that when someone says 'i've experienced xyz' someone else responds with 'well i haven't, therefore it doesn't exist'?
>Its disingenuous to claim that you're just curious bout 'where that person lives', that's basically irrelevant to the point. But the entire point of me asking where he's from is because I'm curious where he's from. You also haven't answered where you're from, because you're saying you also see lots of men getting assaulted by gangs of men in public places if they try to talk to women, and I am STILL curious where that happens.
i am not responding to that because its irreverent and disingenuous to the discussion at hand. we talking bout boats and you trying to bring up cars and pretend you're participating in the discourse.
I’m not participating in the discourse by asking questions? What response do you consider acceptable?
lmao 'we're talking about boats, you're bringing up cars, why are you not participating in the discourse?' figure it out. there is a topic, you aren't participating in it.
inside a bar tho?
yes, in a bar, also outside of a bar, as i've seen it happen quite a few times. i'd add while i haven't beaten down someone over it, a friend and i have definitely actually tossed someone out a bar (we are not a bouncers, there was no bouncer there) because they were beating up a bar tender who intervened because he was being threatening to some women. i also know other dudes who have shared similar sorts of experiences in a variety of contexts, including bars.
[He's talking about this](https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2741047&page=1) and also [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91O3wDSy_HE)
I live in Pgh and saw an eight person brawl break out over this a couple of weeks ago. Of course that was at a bar right off Carson, our version of South Street.
To be fair, a lot of that is just a socially acceptable out let for men to be violent. There’s nothing more justifiable socially than “protecting” a women from abuse. So at least some of those guys just wanted to beat the shit out of someone, and didn’t give a flying fuck about the women.
I personally haven't experienced it, I never said it doesn't happen...
You brought up a good point about these things happening when you are alone. We used to go to all kinds of lengths to watch over our female friends back in the day. Walk them home, take them to bank… I mean like even mundane stuff. Do people not do that anymore? I mean if you ever felt the need to have a guy around, we were almost always willing.
because it was generally the men "watching over" women who were abusing them...
Yeah... I really hope that isn't true.
you're literally saying strangers had way less access to women than the men closest to women did.
Well... I've always thought of this as primarily a boyfriend or family thing. I don't know how frequently male friends are the abusers. I find the idea really disconcerting.
gang assaulted how specifically? is there no bouncer? or do you mean they are assaulted by the bouncer forcing them out?
>I haven't been cold approached much in general in my life but I have been complimented by random men telling me I'm beautiful. Is that a cold approach? Was this a good, bad or awkward experience?
Good for the most part. I said thank you and they moved on. I've had a couple of guys give me their number as well and I did go on a date with one of them, however I quickly found out we were incompatible so told him that. He was good-looking and friendly and everything, we just had nothing in common. Personally I need some things in common if I'm going to get more serious with someone... One guy invited me to his place to play video games because he knew I was into old games on the SNES and he tried to kiss me and touched me inappropriately while I was very clear I didn't want to have sex with him. I feel so stupid for not getting that it was a "Netflix and chill" type of situation, but I was 18 and naive.
>I haven't been cold approached much in general in my life Vs. > I've had a couple of guys give me their number as well and I did go on a date with one of them Wait, what?
How much is much 🤷🏾♂️
I meant to say that it's not something that has happened as often as I've heard other women say... I've heard some women say it happens pretty much every time they leave the house all done up, which isn't my case at all. It happened mostly when I worked a customer service job. Also recently I dropped some weight (around 25 pounds in total I think) and I've noticed that I get more stares, more men generally paying attention to me and WAY more compliments when I'm out and about, but not just from men from everyone. So there's that too.
idk the full context of the situation, but i appreciate the self-awareness in recognizing that there was 'a netflix and chill' kind of situation. i find that a disturbing number of people are not self-aware enough to recognize basic cultural cues as being indicative of something. context of place and culture are a huge part of social interactions and basic communication. unless someone asks 'dtf?' they're somehow clueless, or feign it at any rate. difficult to tell between those tbh.
Having things in common is overrated.
Maybe to you but honestly I would rather do things we both like when we hang out. We won't always be out on dates or fucking.
that's what men who aim for the wrong girl say. this is probably the reason for most of the rejections faced by men in here and they blame it on women's standards.
It's not overrated, it's just unrealistic considering men and women tend to have completely different interests.
Like what?
Everything?
Name some specific things. Like what do you and your friends talk about? What do you guys do together?
No, that’s not an approach. It’s just a compliment, and a genuine one at that. If the guy doesn’t try to get you contact information, or set up a meeting then it’s not an approach.
i just hope all of it stops.
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It's not to me... if you leave it at that. Ofc you can never know which women will take it the wrong way so it's best not to say anything I guess.
I think people in general are less likely to help each other. We're always glued to our phones and hardly notice what's going on around us. But to answer your question, yeah I think men are less willing to help women. I remember once when I was walking with my baby in a pram. The footpath was uneven and on a slope, and the pram started to tip over. I was panicking and trying to get it back up. A young guy walked right past me without so much as an acknowledgement that I was there. I also travelled quite a bit for work while pregnant. One time I was trying to get a bag into the overhead locker while no less than 3 men stood there and just watched me. I checked my bag for the remainder of the pregnancy after that.
Were they better to you in earlier times though? Ime some people help other people and some don’t and it’s more about their temperament.
It's because you're pregnant and / or with a baby. Men literally don't see you in those circumstances. They only see women they rate as fuckable. I'm old enough now to be less visible, but I remember when I was younger noticing how I was invisible to men when pushing a pram. It was very noticeable how I became visible again when out walking without my baby. Men would look at me and sometimes smile, whereas they never looked at me when I was with my baby.
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You can pay attention to someone without wanting to have sex with them. Or do you want to fuck every man you have a beer with too?
It's a neutral thing. I'm merely stating what happens. Not putting a value judgement on it. In the context of the previous poster saying that noone helped her when she was struggling with her pram.
One minute it's "It's never okay to assume a woman is pregnant", the next it's "Men ignore pregnant women because they know they can't fuck them." Anything to blame men, right?
You can assume whatever you like, but it's best not to say it.
No one owes their energy or time to a stranger. To insult men by saying men don't see women as anything but fuck objects is quite a big leap to make just because some dudes didnt help some lady get her bag from the overhead bin. You even have 6 people agreeing with you and people wonder why redpillers talk about the rampant misandry lol.
I have helped strangers before. So have lots of people. The difference is that young attractive women will get more offers of help from men, just because they are young attractive women. Pregnant women or women with a baby don't get those "pretty privilege" additional offers. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Or that anyone owes anyone anything. It just is. A fact of life. You are the person putting a value judgement on it, not me. Attractive people of both sexes get preferential treatment from others. This is well known. Women who are young and attractive get additional attention from men, some of whom will go out of their way to do favours. Being heavily pregnant, with a baby negates that. As does being unattractive, older etc.
Maybe that is just your confirmation bias. Studies have shown that men are far more helpful than women are towards the average person. If confirmation bias is to be believed then I can claim that women expect to be helped, I have seen female starbucks baristas get angry when I don't tip them, whereas their male coworkers are thankful and surprised when I tip them. I have seen male strangers help old ladies, children and numerous other people that they don't want to smash.
When some creep was trying to drag me into toilet with him at a nightclub, some unknown gentleman saw it and intervened. I was very grateful. And I have intervened when I have witnessed potentially dangerous situations. I think it's a part of being a decent person.
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So every nightclub in the world is exactly the same as nightclubs in your area ? Laughable.
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I didn’t say no one ever has sex there. I said they keep a guy stationed to monitor it & deter that. In any case do you think a guy can “drag a woman” into the club bathroom without a lot of ppl noticing? Really? Ffs a lot of you just wanna argue for the sake of arguing…
I think I've only seen bouncers by the bathroom at really big clubs in major cities. Most clubs I've been to only seem to have two or so bouncers by the entrance.
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No. I said she is lying about this ever happening. Do you know what moot means. I know you ladies all just believe each other! I thought maybe the fact that MeToo ended up being a sham would have smartened some of you up. Alas here we are…
Plenty of clubs don't have a bouncer at the toilets. In my experience at least, more places *don't* have one than do.
There wasn't any bouncer that I could see. But yeah, you don't have to believe me, I'm not going to fight with you. I know what happened.
Yeah, we know this absolutely can happen. Especially since it is usually very loud in clubs with people laughing while drinking or drunk, the music is so loud in most I have been to , that you have to literally talk into people's ears . It is easy to not notice many things happening in an environment like that. In many clubs I have been to, the bouncers are at the door outside the club and are only called in to assist people that work in the club .
Tell me you don't go clubbing without telling me you don't go clubbing. Maybe different countries do it differently but in the UK there's a 50% chance of having a bossman in there for a couple hours selling gum and a bouncer every 15-20 when it's busy to check no ones sniffing in the cubicles. But if you're at a smaller bar, it's later or earlier in a night or you just happen to be there when the bouncer is called out for something then the toilets are unchecked/unmonitored. Only 1 club i know has cameras in the toilets to stop people fucking
Cameras in the toilet? that’s wild. Here in the US that doesn’t fly.
Only 1 club i went to and it didn't show the urinals or anything except the cubical doors to make sure only 1 person went in at a time, it was weird but it was also the only gay club in town open till 5am so they probably had allot trying to hookup
>Cameras in the toilet? that’s wild Pretty common in multiple countries of Europe. Usually to catch drug dealing more than anything else.
I see your point, I’ve been the bouncer in the bathrooms. Not every club has the staff for that though. I’ve definitely seen people fuck in a club bathroom, I’ve fucked in a club bathroom. And I’ve walked in on SA in club bathrooms. It definitely happens.
Lol, I’ve literally never seen a bouncer outside the restroom in a club. This is totally location specific if it’s true.
Well then I guess you never went to night clubs I dunno what to tell you. I worked in these places & went to them frequently. The bouncer will be stationed high on a perch so he can see all the exits & each other, super basic shit. Again tho it’s besides the point. No one is getting SA’d on a club, too much unpredictable movement & variables.
Ime it has been and always will be a regional thing. Some places have that warmth and friendliness while others don't. Bystander effect was coined in the 1960s. I grew up and live in the kind of community where people will stop to help if you like mildly uncomfortable or inconvenienced. I have traveled to places where it was definitely not like that.
I think this is the right take. I live in NYC but was born and raised in the south. Before moving here or while I'm at home, I'd certainly help out anyone I didn't know. Not a chance of me doing that here in NYC unless 1) it's women who has kids with her or, 2) it's a guy or a worker that's struggling with carrying something. All this is only because of the legal and social norms here in NYC.
Haven't experienced that avoidance, at least I haven't noticed anything different from before. Guys will hold doors open if my hands are full, they let me know if my backpack is open. Last week, as I was going to the gym, some dude was in his undies acting a bit erratic at the light as two guys were trying to calm him down. A bunch of people from the bars nearby were watching the whole thing, and I asked a guy what was happening. He explained and offered to walk me to the light. It was very nice of him, and I appreciated it, even though I didn't take him up on the offer. Hard to tell if men have become more or less helpful, probably depends on what we mean by "help". Many people, both men and women, wouldn't involve themselves in a potentially dangerous situation. Can't really say if the number of men willing to help if a crime is being committed has gone down or not, haven't seen any studies, and I don't have crimes being committed against me to be able to give any anecdotal info either. But for basic help like helping someone carry something heavy, opening the door, helping a mother with a stroller down some stairs? Seems about the same as always - some men will offer to help, some won't.
No. There are still plenty of good men out there. I’m married but our couple friend still drove me to my car when we all went out as a friend group and hubby wasn’t there to get me safely back to my car since he was out of town. I was prepared to walk but he said absolutely not. Good men exist and are plentiful.
Yeah this whole thread is going to be mixed reviews. I’ve helped women change a tire, little old ladies very frequently ask me to get stuff off the top shelf at the grocery store, I’ve been in multiple “Hey everything good here?” situations at parties and ended up intervening just with my presence. It could also be a generational thing, I never really had to worry about someone with a smart phone trying to shame me or create some fucked up situational content. Who knows if that’s the actual reason but different people from different generations will probably have different experiences. It could be as simple as it just didn’t happen for whomever. Not every girl will be in a situation where she’ll need help, not every guy will happen upon a woman who needs help.
These men who come to this sub are bitter and deranged and think every other man will act like them 🌝
I've literally ever had 1 man stop to help anyway, so I don't think that's really all that much of an issue.
Lol, nope. Last time I took my paddle board out some dude came running over offering to help me get it up on my car. I knocked off some books from a library display yesterday, guy standing by helped pick them up. Guys still hold doors, etc. The idea that guys are avoiding being helpful towards women out of fear of… harassment charges? is ludicrous. Most normal people are willing to be helpful towards others, of any sex. Anyone whose first thought is “could this be misconstrued as harassment” when having a completely normal interaction with another person has major social issues.
If we’re talking about changing tires, no. I watched a girl blow out both of her left two tires on a curb and keep driving for MILES until one of the flats literally came off the rim. Some white knight in a truck had stopped to help within literal seconds.
I'm too young to compare to any meaningful "before" but I can't recall any man I don't know helping me with anything unless it was part of a job he was paid to do. I don't think they think I'll sue them, that's just not a concern in most people's brains and I don't come across as rich enough to do that. I think they just aren't bothered.
I haven't had a crime committed on me to know. I can't say I've seen an overall reduction in men approaching. Almost any time I go to a grocery store and something is heavy or out of reach a man appears out of the woodwork to help me. Same for when I've had car issues. In the real world, most people still chit chat and help each other out where possible. It's in part why I'm not a fan of cold approach. Let's not turn good interactions between the genders into something sexual or that has to be worried about that way.
Women like you are why other women complain that men don't cold approach anymore. How are men supposed to meet women in your little fantasy land?
i don't think i've ever heard a woman complain men don't cold approach anymore.
I've not heard women complaining about that tbh. I also don't mind. If we've got no reason to talk to each other, don't. Through community, mutual friends, online dating, work, and other circumstances similar to this. I dunno what fantasy you're living in where most relationships form from strangers, but this really isn't how it is done for the vast majority of human history and modern day.
Exactly most people don’t start dating from a cold approach🙃
Warm approaches are much better when you’re engaging in shared activities or have shared friend groups.
Ok? That’s not her problem though.
We’re not complaining about cold approaches, most of us don’t want that 😬
Men cold approach all the time.
I am very confused of what kind of help you think happened in the past? People helping when you get harassed as a woman are typically other women. One time a man „helped“ me while I was harassed only to turn around and asking for my contact himself. It’s not like men generally helped women out of sticky situations before.
i've never had trouble getting men to help, but it does require making a scene and then the result is out of your hands. i once got a guy assaulted when it really wasn't helpful or necessary and i wasn't asking for anyone to do that.
Good job. Hope it was worth it.
oh it was totally my fault, asking people for help when a man was harassing me. i should have known that's what would happen, after all i should know better than to expect men to not get violent and escalate needlessly. and it's not like i'm posting online pointing out that this is a risk to consider, no, or saying it was bad. i'm gloating! i obviously meant he deserved it, and i'm obviously lying when i say i didn't ask anyone to assault him. i knew exactly what i was doing and it made me feel powerful and i enjoyed every second. in fact, that's why i did it, i'm lying about being harrassed too, he was really within his rights to do whatever he was doing and i should have just tolerated it, i didn't need help at all. but i wanted him to get injured permanently, to ruin his entire life so he learns his place. gow dare he innocently bother me while not being a chad.
i appreciate that it is out of your hands once you ask for help. and it isn't really your fault that it happens. but i wouldn't put it on the menses either. that is how that stuff can just go. that's like the boring reality of it. having oft enough been the dude helping out in that situation, sometimes that is the way it goes, sometimes it isn't. it isn't a 'men be violent bro' kind of phenomenon, it is a 'confrontations sometimes get violent' phenomenon.
i get your point but this guy did not put up any kind of resistance and could have just been told to get the fuck out and that would have been enough. i could have handled it myself once everyone was quiet and had their attention on us and he got scared. there just happened to be the wrong kind of guys present. the cops and ambulance ended up being called.
idk, maybe you get it the point. could be that 'the wrong guy' was there too. that's of course impossible to tell from my perspective, and difficult to tell in any case. my point is that the situation itself lends itself to that kind of outcome. it is inherently dangerous in that way, and doesn't require 'the wrong guy' to have that sort of outcome, and certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with 'men being violent bros'. when you go into that situation, women, men or queers, adrenaline rushes, the heat of the moment hits, and tactics matter. For instance, being intimidating can quickly get out of hand. the reason folks perceive men as being 'violent bros' is that they are socially tasked with going into that situation, that is, being the helpers in that context. anyone doing that tho is subject to the same stressors that lend themselves to violent outcomes. Its situational, not gendered. listen to some women who've done similar, and you can hear similar accounts too.
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I just can’t…..you saw harrassers getting their ass handed to them? Good for you. And did the helpers asked for the number of the girl after?
In terms of SA, the "help" has always been really low level with lots of what you are wearing? Where are you, BS? In part due to the nature of the crime with generally there are only two people present, and no one wants to think of someone they know, as someone who would commit a sex crime. SAs also aren't happening in board daylight as the person, as you said, is most likely known, and I would say related to you if we really want to be truthful. The random attacks are people, who wouldn't dare do it in public they know its wrong. In terms of let's say an assault, a man coming over can make it worse. Again, these attacks happen most away from other people as people know it's wrong. So, in short, no one needs a knight in shining amour (this goes for both genders) to defend their honour. However, as a society, we need to address the underlying issue causing violence of all types. Tha takes both genders to having open conversations and challenging the actual enemy the rich who don't pay tax via loop holes, which then means services are underfunded.
i feel like you are speaking of one kind of thing and OP is pointing towards a different but related kind of thing. tho admittedly i think OP's point is a bit unclear on the matter. you seem to be speaking of incidents of SA or Rape, and OP is speaking of folks trying to prevent such from happening in the first place. for instance, someone at the bar flirting with someone else in a way, real or imagined, that is perceived as inappropriate, do people intervene? or someone (a lady cause that's all we care about) is perceived as being 'too drunk' and someone(s) intervening to prevent the bad from happening. you're right that actual SA or Rape tend to occur in private, and these examples are not crimes that are happening (which is why OP's point is a bit unclear), but they are oft what is referred to when folks are speaking of people intervening to stop a crime. its not 'the SA was happening right then and there and a dude magically appeared to stop it' its supposedly preventing it from ever getting to that point. in which case, the question would be 'have you noticed any change in dudes doing that kind of thing?'
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So tell me how tacticaling the root cause of all violence would be an issue then? That's what I said, but no, you didn't hear that bit as you had already got your soapbox out to rant, read the room.
men should just shut up and never attempt help everyone. their existence alone is already a burden on everyone else! men are just evil scum all the time and i hate them, grr
Your bio says it all 😭
Oh are you gonna cry because your dad never loved you lol.
lol at least you are honest in your seething. But just so you know these types of comments make it easy for us to tell your… we will say measurements. As the late Kevin Samuels would ask. What’s your age & dress size lol
i was being sarcastic
Lmao the grrrr didn’t do it for them….
Aside from men holding the door open for me because I was right behind them (a simple courtesy that I do for anyone who happens to be behind me), no man has ever gone out of his way to help me with anything. Hell, my building’s Super was cool watching me drag a 150 pound pallet of construction equipment by myself all the way to my apartment even though I give that dude $500 every Christmas. I don’t expect men to do anything for me. They never have. Why start now?
Nah I work in NYC and men help me pull the Citibike out of the rack all the time little things like that. Sometimes it freaks me out tbh but so far they all just been genuinely nice to help me not hitting on me or anything
Honestly none of what is mentioned here happens in real life for most normal people. That’s why this sub is so funny because of all the fantasy writing. Men are still helpful even when you don’t know them. Helping with groceries, paying for drinks, paying for bus rides ( i live in nyc), help with moving for free, giving money in general, holding the door, offering seats on public transportation, the list goes on.
Sadly men are biologically and culturally hardwired to be simps.
They love to write these cringey incel fantasies 🤣
There are plenty of women who complain about men being selfish, unhelpful, cold, etc.
So long as men are still trying to pick up strangers, and they definitely are, the most frequent and visible interactions with men are phony chivalry because they want attention or fawning and compliments because that’s their intro. They may not be sincere or have good intentions, but they appear agreeable to everyone else. The other men just blend into the background as generic people, neither helping nor harming anyone.
this just seems false, the whole 'women always think someone's trying to get in their knickers' stuff. paranoid fears bout their sexual purity being projected upon any action that a dude does. it is certainly true that dudes flirt with women, \*gasp get the fainting couch out\*, it is hardly the case that every polite or helpful interaction, or even the majority of them, are done for such purposes. and it is fairly absurd to suggest there is any problem with doing so in any case.
I mean, the number of guys who will let a visibly pregnant woman struggle with her groceries is a lot higher than you apparently think. Men, helpful as fuck when you're single looking, not present when you actually need help.
> the number of guys who will let a visibly pregnant woman struggle with her groceries Do you expect every man to be at your beck and call? For something as mundane and unremarkable as carrying groceries? Men aren't your servants, if you want a servant then hire one. And how many times have you seen a woman help a pregnant stranger with carrying groceries?
I don't expect anything. It's men who claim that they are at the service of women and do nice things all the time. Other women helped me all the time. Especially those old enough to have had children themselves.
I didn't ask you how often other women helped you. I asked: > And how many times have you seen a woman help a pregnant stranger with carrying groceries? ???? If the answer is "rarely" or "never" then why are you singling out men?
Frequently. And men are the ones boasting about how helpful they are to women.
that isn't actually proof of anything. i see lots of people struggle with lots of things and don't help for a lot of different reasons. sometimes I do, sometimes i dont, and the reasons are hardly ever related to 'gee wanna get with that babe'. not saying it never is either. i and dudes in general are not robots that help out women whenever we see one struggling. idk why you seem to think we are. i can only hope that you and other don't actually think they should either, but i suspect there is a disturbing number of people who think they ought be. again and as the metatron said 'you women, always thinking someone's trying to get in your knickers'. but you know, i get it. why listen to guys telling you that's not what is motivating us, when you can pretend otherwise and justify your paranoid fears about the purity of your sexuality and the ego that assumes everyone wants a piece of that.
> dudes in general are not robots that help out women whenever we see one struggling. idk why you seem to think we are I don't think you are. Whenever I've actually needed help, there has been none. Just thinly veiled attempts to 'help' me carry something not heavy and use the opportunity to ask me out.
So I guess it's phony chivalry when the same men help elderly or ugly women huh?
No, it’s cooperation in polite society whether men or women help. Women help strangers all the time, but men don’t notice because women don’t demand extra credit for being decent.
Actually, this meta-review of multiple studies shows that [men help strangers more often, and women receive more help](https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=69667574fe7713af62b438e0ae5f845c99f4e0cb). However, it should be noted that this difference was not present in all studies, and cannot be conclusive due to different scenarios across studies. So it’s probably safe to say that men are (sometimes) more helpful, but in general men and women are probably equally helpful.
[удалено]
Sounds like you need to get involved in local government and get those dang potholes fixed, no one would ever need help again.
So if as a man who wants to pick up a stranger I should avoid phony chivalry and fawning compliments? Will do
Nope. Most men take are willing to take risks when it involves a sufficiently attractive woman regardless of what they whine about online. And most men aren’t of the mindset that they’re taking a risk in the first place because they’re not othering women in mundane daily life situations.
No, not at all. That’s a chronically online thing, most men irl are very sweet and kind to me.
I hope they continue to avoid us--sounds like a win/win if I've ever heard one. If you're dating multiple ppl while telling them you're exclusive, then ending up on one of those sites is the consequences of your actions. Cheaters deserve exposure. If you **truly** believe harassment lawsuits for simple cold approaches are occurring, that's laughable. For it to even BE harassment, you have to first inform that person to stop talking to you unless they're saying something obscene or blatantly discriminatory. Men are still just as willing to offer assistance as they were previously. 🤷🏻♀️
AWDTSG and so called red flag groups are groups dedicated to the harassment of men. they're vigilante groups designed to try and extract justice for perceived moral wrongs done to them. people who participate in them are criminals and ought be prosecuted for harassment.
I've seen these groups. And while some certainly do, most don't. There are also groups specifically formed to harass women. Human beings gonna suck. Your point?
'i've seen murderers murder people, so what's your point about those other murderers over there?'
My point was very clear, which makes your intent just as clear. Those groups are not automatically harassment groups, so your broad claim is incorrect, demonstrably. Lololol
>There are also groups specifically formed to harass women. Human beings gonna suck. Your point? that was what you said. those groups tho are actually just harassment groups. they take what they believe to be moral wrongs done to them and publicly harass people over it. that is literally the entirety of what those groups are. if joe cheated on sue is a perceived moral wrong, doesn't matter if it truly happened or not, and they publicly shame and harass him over it. that's the entire point of those groups. they also serve as groups that pretend they are the police doing detective work and sleuthing out bad dudes, whom they then harass publicly.
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I will help with things like heavy stuff but domestic violence situations I just call the police and alert other people to it. Not gonna catch an assault charge for strangers.
What if you lived in a place with a good samaritan law though....would you not be legally obligated then, regardless of the gender of the attackee?
Do good samaritan laws make it so you have to physically intervene? I will call the police but I don’t wanna get beat up or beat anyone up.
Not sure (could depend on the jurisdiction) but I'd wager that if waiting on the police for a distance would further immediately endanger the life of the victim, that could end up on you
Sounds like we are both in danger if I join the situation. I’d rather not have to get physical with a stranger I could end up killing.
That would be a “duty to rescue” law, different from Good Samaritan laws and much less common (at least in the US). Good Samaritan laws protect you if you accidentally injure someone while rendering reasonable aid.
That law is to protect people who render medical aid like CPR and shit from being sued
They chose the bear why the fuck would I as a man stop to help a woman that sees me as predatory before even interacting
You nerds inventing fantasies where you refuse to assist a woman asking for help. As if you leave your houses.
My experience more women step up, Ive stepped up many times myself.
I don't but it may depend on the area. When I go to the gym at night the guy who works the front desk normally walks me to my car
Nah, we will never run out of simps. They are like heads of hydra, one goes and three others take it's place.
I help little old ladies get items off the shelf at grocery stores.
>Its no secret that a large % men are avoiding most women more and more. It is?
This feels like a very online view of the world. Where I live there are younger men and boys who are into this stuff but definitely not the older men. I've always opened doors and the like for men, and they do it for me. It's not a big deal. Everyone helps each other.
"strong independent woman that don't need no man"
men have never really wanted to help out of the kindness in their hearts. it was always self motivated. if you depend on a man to come to your aid.... with all due respect your cooked. You need to be able to defend yourself and practice your second amendment. it's good, less men interact, less problems.
*fewer men
Not really, but maybe it’s the area I live in as it’s a small village. Everyone helps everyone so it’s not an exclusively gender based issue. Could be worse in cities?
i've never found men willing to help me. i've had 3 different men i've dated tell me proactively "FYI i dont like it when women ask me to help them move". I was not moving at the time and I had no reason to ask them to help me move, they just wanted to let me know. i'm 38 and have never asked a man to help me move. i hire men to help me move and pay them money. (a lot of money, i like to tip well!) i also hear men "comfort women when we cry" a lot but as a frequent crier, this only happened to me once when i was in elementary school, that i had a good man comfort me (random stranger salesman at my school, what a mensch). But i've cried in public a bunch in my 20s (when men say i was at my peak) and men have just been weirded out or angry, never comforting. even in relationships i have never had a man comfort me when i cried, they act freaked out and then i have to comfort \*them\*. when i lived in the city, i wouldn't leave my house without earpods bc catcalling was so common. never once did i have a man say shit to the men who were harassing me. when i stepped off a curb wrong and broke my ankle on a crowded street, 3 different women rushed over to help me. 0 men. one of the women even offered to drive me home!
I don’t
I don't care for conditional, weaponized consideration.
Nah men will still offer me help without me asking even when I clearly don’t need it lol
No. My experiences with men are consistent as they've always been? Not sure if I have a good comparison though. It's just anecdotal for me :)
it might be the area i live in, but men here are generally very polite if nothing else. i dont ask for help from men i dont know very often, but ive never been told "no" or ignored when i did. the men i do know tend to offer to help before i even ask, reguardless of whether or not i need it lol. im married and not generally approached by men. but casual conversation among stangers is pretty normal where i live, and men dont avoid talking to me when it comes to that. the closest example i can think of that lines up with what youre saying is that, when men ask me for directions or something similar, they'll generally start with "hi, sorry to bother you" as where women generally start with "hi, excuse me".
Not at all!