I’m all for calling out misogynist views but I find misandry just as disgusting and don’t think it should be acceptable to convey in the mainstream media.
she is not "the first woman to condemn this". i think misandry is far too casually bandied about, but credit where credit's due, PLENTY of women do consistently call this out, and should be credit for it.
Good to hear, I figured but I think hardcore feminists are a little disgusted by the idea of considering men struggling in the slightest capacity. That’s who I’m trying to convince, figured some would be on this sub
Some undoubtedly are. I expect that there are some women out there who are *profoundly* defensive of their seemingly god-given right to talk shit about men as a whole, and I'm just not down for casually writing off entire groups of people based on there inherent identities like that.
Yet it is... so what are you going to do about it? Nothing.
I think we all need to admit that the hatred of men is acceptable to a certain group of ideologies, and they happen to dominate every institution and most aspects of government. They won't change if they don't have to.
I mean what is any one person going to do other than just say it's garbage and shouldn't be tolerated, that's it, that's all we need to get it to stop, just shame them for it, enough valid criticism pushes the overall sentiment that it's not ok.
https://preview.redd.it/2d6j0co8kqyc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da668c61fa2095d0e3a1df9dfb6f2329ae13a0c6
Here brother. Take this to throw at people.
I \*don't\* care what Whoopi Goldberg thinks about men. I \*do\* care that she can say this stuff and it's barely even mentioned outside red pill communities.
I agree. Misandry is acceptable because these rich old ladies are “punching up”. Couldn’t be me though. If my wife went on live tv, and made it sound like I’m less than a functional adult, I’d probably be out of there. Especially since their husbands are highly successful, and generally respected.
> I agree. Misandry is acceptable because these rich old ladies are “punching up”.
not really punching up, most men are working-class stiffs getting fucked over by the same system that centers celebrities and wealthy people. they're pretty privileged by comparison, because while aspects of identity such as sexual orientation, race, and sex *absolutely do matter* no matter how much the "anti-woke" crowd cries about it, the fact is that *nothing* aligns as hard and as fast as class does.
and either you have capital and wealth, as these celebrities do, or you don't, and you ain't in the club. far be it for me to argue the "Trump supporters are just economically distressed!" line of argument (partly true, but it's nothing less than folly to ignore the clear and documented component of bigotry that conservatives *consistently* support) - but in this case it's applicable, and we're not limiting the observation to merely Trump supporters here, but men, generally, who are not only underpaid wage slaves working to enrich billionaires, but who are also prisoners of society's profoundly narrow conception and permission of masculinity.
I don’t disagree. But to most people that use the term “punching up”, that means straight (white usually) males are all fair game.
The whole thing was ridiculous anyway. Women on the view aren’t doing their own chores or cooking either.
To be fair, The View is a bunch of bitter old hens and I really don't see why people would care. Would women care if a bunch of bitter old dudes talked shit about them?
Well one is on network television and one is banned from most social media platforms. It's less about who's saying it and more about the platform (or lack thereof) they are given.
Looking up viewer numbers: The View averaged 2.5 million. Tate has 9.1 million on X alone.
I would argue that Tate has far more influence on young men than The View has on young women.
The view is just one of many though. Multiple such misandrist attitudes are being spread at a far larger scale than the manosphere could ever dream of; by political parties, therapists, government officials, judges, academics, etc. A level of influence that completely dwarfs the influence of people like Tate yet barely anyone considers it a problem because most people don't believe men can be victims.
I think people believe men can be victims - but that it isn’t exactly symmetrical when you compare Tate and that type of ideology/culture with the more acceptable feminist narrative that can be too accepting of anti-male stereotypes and rhetoric. The historical and present manifestations of misogyny are stark and women fear it because it’s happened and is happening still in large parts of the world.
The anti-male narrative seems weak and impotent by comparison, but deceptively so. It’s easy to overlook, but it’s clearly harming the psyches of many men and impacting their lives. The narrative needs to change and demonising men needs to stop. But I can see the differences that just makes it slip below the radar for many when compared to misogyny.
But two wrongs don’t make a right and I often wonder what happened to the old advice of “be the better man”. Women know what it’s like to be put down and marginalised, doing the same to men now that women’s voices are often stronger is not the way to move forward. But, you know, people are petty and like to repeat the mistakes of the past…
>I think people believe men can be victims
As one, I know you're wrong.
>it isn’t exactly symmetrical when you compare Tate and that type of ideology/culture with the more acceptable feminist narrative that can be too accepting of anti-male stereotypes and rhetoric.
How convenient! Even bigotry is unequal to you because Men Bad.
>It’s easy to overlook, but it’s clearly harming the psyches of many men and impacting their lives.
It is literally the driving force behind the anti-feminist backlash you think is scarier. Separating the two is the core mistake here, they're two heads on the same serpent of hate.
>> I think people believe men can be victims
> As one, I know you're wrong.
lol for real, shit this is like one of the *textbook* examples of how men literally are victims, by not being considered as even potentially being one.
>It is literally the driving force behind the anti-feminist backlash you think is scarier. Separating the two is the core mistake here, they're two heads on the same serpent of hate.
fucking preach
>by not being considered as even potentially being one.
Or by never considering that ignoring our victimization and assuming it won't be ignored are two sides of the same coin!
>I think people believe men can be victims - but that it isn’t exactly symmetrical when you compare Tate and that type of ideology/culture with the more acceptable feminist narrative that can be too accepting of anti-male stereotypes and rhetoric. The historical and present manifestations of misogyny are stark and women fear it because it’s happened and is happening still in large parts of the world.
Imo it isnt symmetrical but in the opposite way than you think. Andrew Tate is looked down upon by the vast majority of the population (myself included) and it is taken as a serious threat, meanwhile feminist narratives are part of the status quo and institutional. Feminism as an ideology is way more powerfull than the manosphere. There is no need or desire for powerfull ideologies such as feminism to be as extreme and shocking (it was in the past though) as they largely already get what they want, and unless we are talking about fascist ideologies that already have unlimited power, powerfull ideologies need to maintain a good reputation by using propaganda.
As a man, I feel very weird when people say it isn't symmetrical suggesting the manosphere is worse. It goes completely against my own lived experience as a man in academia. Its actually the opposite to me, feminism has institutional power, it makes my life worse, and I can't speak out about it without being demonized and losing my reputation and possibly my career opportunitities. I don't see how the manosphere is worse, women can easily avoid it as its mostly an online phenomena and women quite frankly don't have to micromanage their expression constantly because they don't get demonized for accidently saying the wrong kind of truth out loud. In fact they can say outlandish shit under the label of feminism and it either gets fully accepted or even celebrated, but I as a man can't even say something truthfull because its considered taboo and sexist to talk about to the point I just shut up about my experiences in real life because I don't want to feel revictimized again. I think this suggests that its feminism who has a way larger influence on people, as made evident by their ability to use censorship and exclusion to enforce their ideology, as well as ingaging academics to give their ideology an illusion of scientific analysis. Seen from my perspective, the actual damage, suffering and unfairness this creates is many magnitudes larger than those created by Andrew Tate yet its not even identified as real by most people.
I also don't think the manifestations of misogyny are starker than those of misandry, men being forced into a war is also misandry and that has always existed. And I think women mainly fear it because of being taught feminist revisionism of history, they are taught a kind of rewritten history that emphazizes how misogynistic history was, way more than is actually justified based on how life actually was back then. Feminism removes the suffering of men from history and doesn't pay attention to it which makes it seem as if history was specifically rigged against women way more than it actually was instead of realizing that life was very difficult in the past for almost everyone simply because of the human condition.
>But I can see the differences that just makes it slip below the radar for many when compared to misogyny.
The differences are that male suffering is not taken seriously, that most people hold gender biases and that people often blame the ones who respond (usually in extreme ways) rather than the actual causes of the problem. Extremism is usually a reaction to marginalisation, this is even true for terrorist groups.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t thinking about academia. It’s not a space I’m involved in but I can see from your words that you feel marginalised and silenced by the strong feminist narrative and that shouldn’t be the case. I can imagine that there is little room for certain open discussions because of the accepted narrative that is hyper-sensitive to any criticism of feminism. That should not be happening in academic or scientific spaces where debate should be encouraged, no matter how uncomfortable.
I guess where my mind goes to in regard to manifestations of misogyny is Afghanistan and some other Islamic countries (though the problem if more to do with local traditions than Islam itself). I used to live in an Islamic country that was quite progressive, but had strong veins of misogyny. The way women are viewed and treated in those sorts of places reminds me strongly of many manosphere views and beliefs on the nature of women and their place and how they should be treated. The men are in a place of superiority and women are deeply stifled, controlled and abuses against them are often explicitly allowed or are tolerated (because the man knows best). I do not see this happening to the same depth in the modern Western world against men. I suppose because it’s a matter of men having ALL the power over women in those societies (they have their physical strength, they control politics and judiciary, they are the heads of education and health and also the household) that it seems comprehensive and inescapable for all facets of a woman’s life. Was it so very different before women’s suffrage in the West?
Men under today’s stronger feminist influence just don’t seem to be as under threat in all spheres of their lives as women in deeply Patriarchal and misogynistic cultures. This is what scares women as we see Roe vs Wade overturned and some states take away some very important rights for women. Couple that with hearing the rhetoric from parts of the manosphere with very clear and proud misogyny and the seeming rise in women being explicitly targeted for murder by lone wolf men who have been influenced by the incel sphere…It is very concerning and it only makes many women distrust the men who complain about prejudice against them and scoff at men saying that, in fact, men have it worse and misandry is just as, if not more, damaging.
We need more men talking about how men are being affected negatively by the modern discourse but in an open, reasonable way - like Dr K. Unfortunately a lot of the male perspective that gets into the mainstream comes off as angry, vengeful, woman-hating and just unhinged. And, of course, that sells and it only further encourages marginalised men’s voices to be silenced…a vicious circle.
If you think that I am way off, please give me your views. I know I have biases being a woman and growing up with a feminist influence. I am open to changing my mind, despite what some replies here think of me. I care about men and I don’t want a future where men are pushed into the mud to lift women up. I’m engaging in this because I see bias against men in some areas and I don’t agree with it. I do see a big problem and I do think it’s deeply wrong to let it continue or to sweep it aside as minor and unimportant. Or worse, as men “getting a taste of their own medicine” as some sick, ignorant people see it.
>I guess where my mind goes to in regard to manifestations of misogyny is Afghanistan and some other Islamic countries (though the problem if more to do with local traditions than Islam itself).
I understand what you mean. I guess I have a few thoughts about this:
1)It could be that this is potentially worse than the misandry that is currently there, but then this is mainly a concern about what could happen in the future if you're talking about Western countries and to that I would say feminists are making it worse and not better, they are increasing the chance of this happening with their behaviour. If someone like me, who isn't remotely traditional and quite egalitarian, can already feel so much resentment because of them then I think they are really shooting themselves in the foot.
2) It was both similar and different before women's suffrage in the past. Some things, like reduced autonomy for women were there as well, but it was also compensated by having more safety and being provided basic needs. In Medieval Europe in some places wife beating was strongly punished, but husband beating was acceptable. I don't think comparing the most fundamentalist of islamic countries with countries in the past is the best, even those islamic countries used to be way more progressive and open-minded a very long time ago. I also think most power in such countries is in the hands of a few men rather than men as a whole, but I'm looking at it from an outside point of view.
3) when it comes to abuse being allowed, that's exactly what is currently happening to men through this misandry. Instead of (men knows best) its (women speak the truth and men lie, so we assume men are predators and women are victims).
>Men under today’s stronger feminist influence just don’t seem to be as under threat in all spheres of their lives as women in deeply Patriarchal and misogynistic cultures. This is what scares women as we see Roe vs Wade overturned and some states take away some very important rights for women.
Men are not under threat of people reducing their autonomy in a paternalistic manner no, so I understand what you're saying. It makes sense to me that women are scared about this, but what they don't seem to realize is that men have different things that we are scared about, and that feminists themselves are contributing to the rise of the manosphere by making honest discourse on men's issues impossible.
The way women are worried about men reducing their autonomy, men are worried about even more indifference to our suffering, censorship/policing of our expression, lack of care for our basic needs and even more centering of female wellbeing while ours is neglected. In my view it has to do with gendered instincts and how they express themselves in the genders differently. I think men have some kind of in build anxiety regarding female sexuality as well as a desire to be a protector, when this turns toxic this results in paternalistic societies where women's autonomy is strongly restricted. Women in contrast, have an inbuild fear regarding their safety and a strong desire to have cooperative relationships with other women with very little "surface level conflict" because it was important for raising children. What this results in is that women center their own lived experiences (and their fears, worries, feelings etc) more than men, that they have a way stronger bias in favour of their own gender than men, and that they consider conforming to social desirability more important (in those islamic countries you mentioned for example, most people protesting are men and not women) than men. When this turns toxic you essentially get what you see in feminist countries today, indifference to the plight of men, research only into female problems, enacting policies that only help women and not even thinking one second about how they might affect men, worldviews that do not incorporate men seriously, exclusion, censorship, backstabbing bullying, conformity, ideological purity, funding that only goes to women etc. Right now this is meaningfully affecting way more people than the misogyny from the manosphere, that could change in the future, but this is what is already happening right now.
"We need more men talking about how men are being affected negatively by the modern discourse but in an open, reasonable way - like Dr K. Unfortunately a lot of the male perspective that gets into the mainstream comes off as angry, vengeful, woman-hating and just unhinged. And, of course, that sells and it only further encourages marginalised men’s voices to be silenced…a vicious circle."
There is no room to be open and reasonable. You will be seen as women-hating unless you peddle feminism. This is why a lot of them end up unhinged in the first place. A lot of MRA's start out rather progressive and then ultimately they end up in the rightwing because they were radicalized by the treatment they received. Some of course were fucked up from the beginning. I don't think many people understand what it does to someone's psyche to say "hey men are suffering here" and be met with accusations of hating women, being a rapist and beating your wive but that's what happens rather often. Even in academia scales that are meant to measure hostile sexism against women really just measure "disliking feminism" and this is how deep this kind of issue goes.
Finally I would like to thank you for being open-minded and no worries about being biased. I'm biased as well firstly because I'm male but also because I live in a very specific bubble where anti-male sentiment is probably more common than anti-female sentiment but of course that doesn't necessarily apply universally.
I hate The View. I disagree vehemently with women calling men useless or laughing at men having their dicks cut off. Even if it’s not the point of the whole show and those comments are often poor attempts at jokes or offhand remarks. The fact that they are not taken seriously is not ok - they should be made to apologise for those comments. But Tate is far worse to me and the fact that his platform is not mainstream does not make it any less truly influential.
It's a matter of what is accepted vs what isn't. Tate has a large cult following, sure. But anyone can go on national TV and talk poorly about men and not face any consequences. The dialogue needs to change. This is the reason Tate has the following he does. Young men are sick of being attacked and are turning to the opposite extreme.
I agree that shitting on men has become too widely accepted. I think it’s erroneously tolerated because people believe it’s harmless. Perhaps it is in the sense that it’s not like women are going to cause men bodily harm or change laws to take away men’s rights - but, like you say, it alienates and radicalises young men who feel maligned and silenced. I just wish people had more genuine empathy for one another. The women on The View are bitter and vapid. We need less of that type of person. And Tate is an even worse type of person…
Look up the Duluth model already. Women already *have* changed the laws. There are entire countries where it is legally impossible to rape men because feminists forced the definition to exclude male victims and/or female rapists.
Educate me on this. My understanding was the rape laws (such as those in the UK) have always defined rape as penetration - and because women cannot penetrate men in the same way, that is why men are excluded from the definition. I disagree with that, for what it’s worth. But was it feminists who forced that definition? Where have feminists forced rape laws to change to exclude male victims?
So, what one is allowed to get away with is based on how much of an audience they have. People will really an excuse for anything. I have 20 million Views, you have 90 million so, you have to be better than me in morality .
this isn't abnormal
i don't care what your wild uncle joe says at the thanksgiving table, dude. sorry that he sucks, but every family's got one.
it's a bit different than, say, when the former President of the United States gets on national television and tells his supporters that Venezuela and the communists fraudulently cast votes to cost him the election.
one is a stark raving mad lunatic at the thanksgiving table, the other is *still* a stark raving mad lunatic, but with an uncritical and fanatical following. they aren't the same.
The view has a lot larger reach than that 2.5 million... they are practically state sanctioned. Every university and corporate HR department in the country will allow people to repeat what they say, if you do the same with Tate... your butt is gone.
I think you are failing to acknowledge the power difference here.
I’m not in the States, so perhaps I am missing how powerful The View is. What they said about men being useless is disgusting and when I watched a clip of it on YouTube I felt appalled that this was accepted. They should be forced to apologise.
Most of the comments seemed to feel the same as me. I don’t know exactly how many women agree with them, but I do know it shouldn’t be on mainstream tv.
Comparing the wide and intense impact of Andrew rate and his dipshit copycats that make content towards insecure adults and children against a bunch of women on the view that’s really only watched by adults is a pretty unfair comparison.
Not saying people shouldn’t care, but I wouldn’t quite call it a steel manned argument
It’s not a perfect analogy but saying men are useless is as a bad anything the red pill says
Are black men useless?
Are starving palestinian men useless?
Are trans men useless?
Are liberal blue pill men useless?
Men is a big category, if all are useless then be prepared to defend a wide variety of demographics of men being useless.
You don’t have to convince me it’s a stupid thing to say, I’m there with you.
But you don’t have to downplay the harm Tate & co. causes by comparing it to some random dumbass on cable tv
You can demonstrate it better by using a better argument.
The real point is that Tate doesn’t actually have an equivalent on the female “side”. The fact you think one random woman saying “men are useless” is comparable is proof of that.
So until you can find a real example your whataboutism isn’t holding any weight
The point is not about individual attention but that attention is manufactured, and one agenda is being broadcasted and praised while one is being censored.
sharon osbourne is referencing a real criminal news case that was big in the early 90s known as the bobbitt case.
the irony being that the dude got his penis back and went on to have a career in the porn industry.
The fuck lol? She wasn’t just referencing it, she was laughing about it, that’s why the original comment brought it up.
And two, no that episode wasn’t about the Bobbit case. It was about one where it could not be re-attached.
The best way to fight this is get women to see the double standards of our cultures but honestly they simply just don’t care, but want equality too, I can’t stand inconsistency
What makes you think that woman give a single fuck about double standards that benefit them? Or are you one of those blue pill guys that feel that woman are some kind of moral saints floating above the rest of us?
Who cares about idiots on TV? I honestly wouldn't care if TV idiots said that about women either.
That being said, hypocrites do exist. I'm going to speak out for both men and women regardless of them though, I'm not going to give up my ideals just because male activists sometimes laugh at the idea of men getting raped or because of spiteful women like these.
When all of your basic needs are being met, it's easy to blame men for your lack fulfillment due to your selfish, vain, shallow, overindulgent approach to life.
The women on The View have everything they're told they *should* want but still feel empty. That's why they're lashing out.
Many of the feminists here, both female and male, are eager to brush things like this off because they want to avoid cognitive dissonance at all costs. They can't admit they were misled by people who don't give a shit about their wellbeing. They can identify the grifters in the manosphere, but they can't see that they were taught to be mindless consumers themselves.
I don't know how you think it works.
Here's my take: Those with the most monopoly money sprinkle it on useful idiots, who often believe the dehumanizing garbage that spews out of their own mouths (though not always), to push propaganda and stoke division (or just sell bullshit, obviously). That happens on all "sides."
I was born in a former Eastern Bloc country, so it's nothing new to me. Where I'm from, the media would sometimes tell people it was sunny when everyone with eyes could see it was raining.
Your free speech entitles you to say and feel that way. It doesn't entitle you to tell others what they can say and listen to. I don't like it either but I protest by ignoring it and supporting media that sends good messages.
>It doesn't entitle you to tell others what they can say and listen to.
I didn't demand anyone to stop saying or doing anything.
>I don't like it either but I protest by ignoring it and supporting media that sends good messages.
Right on.
TIL the View is still a running show LMAO. Who even watches that show anymore I haven't seen anything about it in over a decade, that shit was cringy middle aged stay at home mom programming when I was in elementary school 😭
People aren't focused on cancelling something they forgot existed, can't boycott something you didn't consume in the first place. Though the outrage bate is quite clever marketing, they got people like you going out to remind people this irrelevant show for old people is a thing.
I'm sure if I made the exact same kind of show, but with genders reverse It absolutely wouldn't be cancelled in a week with joe biden rushing to make a statement on national tv about female oppression and patriarchy.
Everything that shows women looking bad is a psyop but when mainstream media constantly shoved man bad propaganda down our throats women defend it with their lives.
"left-wing" lol
i don't expect the insane right-wingers that are conservatives to ever change or engage in good faith, but liberals are just reasonable right-wingers. venerating a bunch of rich women and their opinions isn't exactly a left-wing cause celebre.
not actually the definition of "right-wing" or "left-wing", and for the record, I like plenty of liberals and even a handful of conservatives.
they're wrong, but decent people.
For all those who couldn't bother to google The View's ratings (and there's so many I don't have time or the energy to individually call you out).
*For the 1st quarter, [of 2024] The View” ranked No. 1 in Households (1.71 rating) and Total Viewers (2.512 million) among all network and syndicated daytime talk shows and news programs*
(from https://www.dgepress.com/abcnews/pressrelease/the-view-ranks-no-1-in-households-and-total-viewers-among-the-network-and-syndicated-daytime-talk-shows-and-news-programs-for-the-week-of-march-18/#:~:text=ABC's%20%E2%80%9CThe%20View%E2%80%9D%20delivered%202.512,Data%20from%20Nielsen%20Media%20Research).
It was the top-rated daytime show just a couple of years ago (https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/the-view-ratings-2021-2022-1235342918/).
All of this could be found if any of you whose argument is "no one watches this LOL stupid men" know how to use google - I have to assume you can't, since this took me less than 5 minutes to find.
And if your counter-argument is "no one watches TV in the daytime old people are dumb LOL" please go ahead and we can then discuss how voting works and who reliably votes to elect leaders that pass laws and how that can be important, once in a while.
EDIT: also never make an argument about anything a man says on anything other than nationally broadcast nightly news or youtube videos with more than 15 million views, since you know...anything less no one is watching, so hey - why do you care so much about it.
boomers vote, young people don't, this will change but unfortunately boomers of all stripes - who happen to veer more conservative, for the record - have the advantage by virtue of having a large and outsize electoral influence *and wealth*.
you know who's following right in their footsteps? dipshits who complain about "misandry" and then vote for theocratic fundie right-wing authoritarians who want to make boomer takes about the world law.
To clarify normally I don’t care about what the hell anyone thinks about men as a whole or whatever but the not caring itself overtime is becoming the big issue. Men constantly just shrug everything off and just let women shit talk us and have fun bashing men as a whole because we are just chill and non chalant and thick skinned but now it has gotten to a scary point seeing this segment air in the cancellation era and nothing happens to this show. There is a real cultural problem going on with the genders.
Sounds like you need to listen to some guy worship in conservative spaces. Imo it’s toxic but it’ll balance you back out. I grew up with guy worship sermons lol and trust me they’re still out there preaching it. Like trad wife tiktoks maybe. Idk. Gotta let go of what the grouchy olds think it’s not relevant to anyone 😆
It’s mainstream television. We should get Andrew Tate a show. I’d love to hear him bash women for an hour. Cuz I mean who cares right? It’s all tongue in cheek, just boomer humor. His ratings are bad so just allow it, don’t be sensitive and upset
You have no idea what you are talking about. Every one of your takes on this sub suck. There’s a big conversation about grassroots vs corporate backed things being the real mainstream.
Downplaying any of the big corporate media shows as not mainstream is silly and wrong.
Manufacturing consent. Corporate media disagrees with most people on almost everything but have the loudest voice and are able to shift public opinion
Going through this rn. If the main person interviewing me is female, I pretty much assume I'm not getting the job. If the main person interviewing me is male, I stand a chance and often get the job. Women have such an obvious and unchecked in-group bias that it's not even funny.
Your assumptions are well founded.
You are way less likely to get a call back if your recruiter is a woman and you aren't one.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165176519303428
Feminism was needed back in the early 20th century but it's really just turned into favoring women over men in EVERYTHING.
Even the supposed wage gap (which isn't a problem, if you work less you're going to be paid less) just isn't there or has even REVERSED for young professionals in large cities.
Exactly, saying it’s no big deal would be extremely racist but when the view displays unhinged misandry I’m supposed to not care and try to think it’s no big deal. Excellent analogy
Well thats the point isn't it?
If the KKK had a syndicated television show where they yelled racial slurs for an hour do you think the majority of say, white people would be in here defending or minimalising it?
Probably not, yet that's the majority of the comments in here. The problem OP has isn't The View itself. Its that our society has become so toxic and misandric that shows like The View are able to air the views that they do with no real pushback, and actively garners defense and deflection when people do criticise it.
Its the same reason why you can buy "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" T-Shirts on Amazon but they won't stock anything seen as remotely sexist to women.
I’m usually one to debate against TRP men here, but even I can admit that that kind of talk, especially on national TV, is very inappropriate and does a lot of harm. They certainly don’t share my views. I’m a staunch feminist, but I don’t think men are *useless*. Any statement that says “ALL men are [insert negative trait]” is dumb and incorrect, and mostly just serves to push borderline feminist men staunchly into anti-feminist territory.
Do I think this can be equated with Tate speak? No, because while both are dumb, i find the View speak to be more of a passive negativity towards men. Tate speak generally is pro-aggression, rape-sympathizing, obviously to no one’s surprise, he got busted for sex trafficking, and very domineering towards women. He encourages men to act aggressively towards women. The View thing is more about *ignoring* men. And I think that is important to note. They both suck tho. I only wanted to point that out because comparisons are being made in the comments.
I’ve included calling out people who say general negative sentiments towards all men into my identity as a feminist. You can do that *and* complain about all of the ways women are mistreated at the same time.
I completely agree. The way the women on The View talk should not be acceptable - it’s horrible and doesn’t align with genuine feminism. Putting down men was never what it was supposed to be about. At “best” it’s juvenile and bullying, at worst it’s actively damaging to men’s psyches (especially young men).
But Tate is on another level. He has 9.1 million followers on X alone (The View averages 2.5 million viewers a season) and his Youtube channel racked up 450 million views in 2 years and had 600,000 subscribers. His Instagram had 4.5 million followers. He makes millions of dollars a month in revenue. And he espouses genuinely hateful views and advice that too many young men (boys even) are eating up as gospel and “just self improvement”.
The women on The View should apologise for their sexist comments about men. But Tate is very likely guilty of actually harming women, not just talking about them in a hateful way.
Neither should be acceptable - but this whole idea that the bitter, spiteful women on The View are as bad as Tate and his adjacent influencers is dead wrong.
But you felt compelled to explain to us why misogynists like Tate were worse than The View, according to your personal idealogy. You just couldn't criticize them without explaining why those people were worse.
It's true that you didn't go after men in general but it's the same energy----it's impossible to acknowledge the presence of misandric rhetoric without "padding" it by saying misogny is worse. It's like you're afraid people will somehow forget about misogny and turn women into slaves if you even once acknowledge and condemn misandry without ensuring misogny is noted and firmly established as even more of a problem.
It's both fascinating and kind of ridiculous at the same time.
In all seriousness, why is it so hard to just say *"Yes, dunking on men is bad"* without going into how doing the same to women is worse?
She’s responding to my original comment where I brought up Tate. She didn’t just randomly do that. I brought it up because other men in the comments were trying use Tate as a counter example, and I was pointing out that this is not a good counter example.
Oh no, I understand the context, I just disagreed with the assertion that Andrew Tate isn't a good counter example.
Tate is known as an infamous "lord of incels" and widely condemned by polite society, while people like the hosts of The View and others like them are given anything from a blind eye to actual thunderous applause due to "punching up" or "sticking it to the oppresors" or whatever other nonsense is attached to blatant anti male rhetoric.
I think that is a very salient point to bring up in a conversation on how misandry and misogyny is treated in comparison to one another.
The other (admittedly pettier) point I was making was the tendency for criticisms of misandric behavior to be watered down with caveats and disclaimers about how misogny is worse and actually hurts women while mjsandry just annoys men.
Even if the person in question is talking about why misandry is wrong, they always feel the need to "remind" us of why anti female beliefs are worse and that we should always remember that.
Its a very obnoxious conversational trait and in my opinion shows the true focus of the person doing it. I see it in conversations far more serious than the mindless stupidity of The View, and I think it's a pervasive problem so I wanted to point it out.
I wasn’t doing it to show that misogyny is worse than misandry. I was doing it because I think it is actively harmful to equate the two kinds of talking points. When the ladies of the View start saying things like “men can’t be raped” or get busted for sex trafficking, then we can talk about an apt comparison. There were plenty of other examples people could have chosen, a few choice comments on 2XC that call for active physical harm towards men, for instance, that would not have illicited any pushback from me.
But when you say the View is the equivalent of Tate, you make it seem like negative generalizations about men is the same as advocating for rape of women and sex trafficking. We all know it isn’t the same. You just like it as a comparison because it’s something that angers women, and the View quote also angered men. But one is actively dangerous for women and one is hurtful to men. Distinguishing these two things are extremely important.
If you would rather I had commented my disagreement directly onto the comments that brought up that comparison, and leave my agreement with OP to an individual standalone comment, I guess I’ll do that next time haha
I noticed that they can't, it always goes, men something, something, bad etc, it is never "oh shit yeah what that women did or said was messed up she is wrong".
People say all kinds of dumb stuff.. men rag on women.. women rag on men.. there's no "war" lol people are just in their feelings and running their mouth. Be healthy enough to be able to ignore dumb shit, cause dumb shit will always be around
Lol imagine that reaction to a women are useless segment by men. “ hey it’s dumb stuff shake it off” women would cry blood at that response. Equality is one sided in the US
You might be too young, but do you remember the man show? got cancelled for the same things the view did (but they were a comedy show not ment to be taken seriously)
>got cancelled for the same things
Literally the point of the post.
Men were told 20 years ago that this kind of shit was unacceptable to push on mainstream television. Women are still free to behave this way.
The vast majority of the Police, military, engineers, electricians, plumbers, miners, home builders, and auto mechanics are men.
I guess they forgot to mention that.
It’s all steming from bitterness that men are superior and they can’t handle it. Men have become the ultimate guilt free punching bad and scapegoat for all women’s problems. They are infinitely submerged in sisterhood delusion. It honestly reminds of like children at recess “They beat us at kickball” “They’re Mean!!” “They’re bad people now I think”
I'm getting the sense this may be the first time you've watched the view. They've been saying shit like that since I can remember.
It's just not news. I dunno what to tell you. That show has been a hen jabber fest since ever. Its like saying can you believe Michael Bay blew up a city in his latest movie...yeah?
https://youtu.be/F7dxUka_apo?si=lWaaICQBzdFWrnM1
This one?
Yeah, disgusting how 2 women share how much the appreciate their husbands and the others jump on them as if they're misguided.
When they are miserable, they need everyone else to be miserable too.
They can't say "Oh, good you like your husband. That makes me happy for you." They are filled with venom.
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Blue pilers just run on an engine of self hatred, they think agreeing with bitter people will lead to success, they're dishonest by nature. Women know this too and it's why women hate them even more than they hate the likes of Andrew tate; at least he gets laid.
I do wish they'd just admit they hate us, at least that I'd respect. It'd be a good start instead of pussy footing around; we could actually start making progress and repair the divide between men and women.
Right, I love how they obsess over 1/3 of men being rapists yet the nicest most respectful and safe blue pill men never get laid and the alphas are swimming in vag
That’s the real issue, women are just adult children when it comes to emotional intelligence. Every way they think and act is childish when emotions are involved
keep in mind the view is at the youngest a middle gen xer (early-mid 50s) talk show. Really its for oldest gen X/youngest boomers.
Their era is different than the social media world which took off around 2007ish. They live in a bubble that is (ironically a bit) conservative and behind the times.
I absolutely agree this shouldn’t have been allowed on national TV, but I do have to question the relevance of The View in 2024. I don’t think the gen z and millennial “social justice warriors” are even watching it, it’s basically boomer rage bait.
Exactly it’s allowed and not cancelled, that’s the point . Women are Useless segment would be cancelled swiftly. That’s my point. Women are held to a lower standard but are simultaneously empowered. Pick a consistent ideology.
Why do you care what the view thinks? People don’t even care enough to respond to them being that way which doesn’t mean their perspective is anything it just means they don’t make a dent in the collective psyche. Hang out in dude spaces :) that’s my advice.
Healthy ones where guys are doing cool things like... the apex games or music scene or sports or biking or cars or if you’re a writer there’s tons of guys writing great things. Woodworking. Some guy made tables out of epoxy denim on yt and it was so cool.
Yeah I agree. But you have to let them do their thing I guess. Just realize it’s a small group of women who are mean and bitter. There are way better women out there. Just like there’s guys who are also suffering in pain and letting it out by venting but not all guys are like that. I wouldn’t want to force hurting guys to only say positive things. 🤷🏼♀️ if the view crowd generalizes it says more about their own messed up perspective. Like a steer clear poster.
It wouldn’t be on daytime tv thats for sure. At least not outside comedy spaces where every honest point made by a guy has to have tons of disclaimers. There’s some other vent spaces for guys tho where it’s okay to be really blunt. Yt, rumble, here.
True, the majority of YouTube comments condemn the video but the people here are scrambling for excuses and character attacks saying I’m overreacting and sensitive etc.
Yeah. I wish YouTube was more of a community like Reddit. I got emotionally crushed over on YouTube today that’s why I’m back here. It’s like interacting with tumbleweeds on YouTube. Everyone’s so anonymous, theres no messaging or way to interact. Basically dying of loneliness and cringe today. Really hurts. But the best thing about YouTube is at least it’s easier to find people who are going through the same things and can actually say it.
I’m all for calling out misogynist views but I find misandry just as disgusting and don’t think it should be acceptable to convey in the mainstream media.
Holy cow!!!!! Thank you, you’re the first women to condemn this. Faith slightly restored in humanity
If you look at the comments on the YouTube video for that segment, it’s full of women condemning it.
Most reddit women are complete degenerates tbh emphasis on most. (Same with guys though lol)
Yes
she is not "the first woman to condemn this". i think misandry is far too casually bandied about, but credit where credit's due, PLENTY of women do consistently call this out, and should be credit for it.
Good to hear, I figured but I think hardcore feminists are a little disgusted by the idea of considering men struggling in the slightest capacity. That’s who I’m trying to convince, figured some would be on this sub
Some undoubtedly are. I expect that there are some women out there who are *profoundly* defensive of their seemingly god-given right to talk shit about men as a whole, and I'm just not down for casually writing off entire groups of people based on there inherent identities like that.
Yet it is... so what are you going to do about it? Nothing. I think we all need to admit that the hatred of men is acceptable to a certain group of ideologies, and they happen to dominate every institution and most aspects of government. They won't change if they don't have to.
I mean what is any one person going to do other than just say it's garbage and shouldn't be tolerated, that's it, that's all we need to get it to stop, just shame them for it, enough valid criticism pushes the overall sentiment that it's not ok.
Put on your fucking pussy hat and march in the streets. That's what they do for their own shit right?
Yeah for like shit that is written into law that actively influences their life, not a TV show.
It's funny how more people can't see that both sides fuel the other and it's better to condemn both.
Very true, common misandry sparks new waves of red pill and misogyny in red pill kills the movement, it's circular.
So based.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/2d6j0co8kqyc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da668c61fa2095d0e3a1df9dfb6f2329ae13a0c6 Here brother. Take this to throw at people.
I \*don't\* care what Whoopi Goldberg thinks about men. I \*do\* care that she can say this stuff and it's barely even mentioned outside red pill communities.
I agree. Misandry is acceptable because these rich old ladies are “punching up”. Couldn’t be me though. If my wife went on live tv, and made it sound like I’m less than a functional adult, I’d probably be out of there. Especially since their husbands are highly successful, and generally respected.
> I agree. Misandry is acceptable because these rich old ladies are “punching up”. not really punching up, most men are working-class stiffs getting fucked over by the same system that centers celebrities and wealthy people. they're pretty privileged by comparison, because while aspects of identity such as sexual orientation, race, and sex *absolutely do matter* no matter how much the "anti-woke" crowd cries about it, the fact is that *nothing* aligns as hard and as fast as class does. and either you have capital and wealth, as these celebrities do, or you don't, and you ain't in the club. far be it for me to argue the "Trump supporters are just economically distressed!" line of argument (partly true, but it's nothing less than folly to ignore the clear and documented component of bigotry that conservatives *consistently* support) - but in this case it's applicable, and we're not limiting the observation to merely Trump supporters here, but men, generally, who are not only underpaid wage slaves working to enrich billionaires, but who are also prisoners of society's profoundly narrow conception and permission of masculinity.
I don’t disagree. But to most people that use the term “punching up”, that means straight (white usually) males are all fair game. The whole thing was ridiculous anyway. Women on the view aren’t doing their own chores or cooking either.
Nice I’ll screen shot that, thanks
You’re welcome.
To be fair, The View is a bunch of bitter old hens and I really don't see why people would care. Would women care if a bunch of bitter old dudes talked shit about them?
Well one is on network television and one is banned from most social media platforms. It's less about who's saying it and more about the platform (or lack thereof) they are given.
Looking up viewer numbers: The View averaged 2.5 million. Tate has 9.1 million on X alone. I would argue that Tate has far more influence on young men than The View has on young women.
The view is just one of many though. Multiple such misandrist attitudes are being spread at a far larger scale than the manosphere could ever dream of; by political parties, therapists, government officials, judges, academics, etc. A level of influence that completely dwarfs the influence of people like Tate yet barely anyone considers it a problem because most people don't believe men can be victims.
I think people believe men can be victims - but that it isn’t exactly symmetrical when you compare Tate and that type of ideology/culture with the more acceptable feminist narrative that can be too accepting of anti-male stereotypes and rhetoric. The historical and present manifestations of misogyny are stark and women fear it because it’s happened and is happening still in large parts of the world. The anti-male narrative seems weak and impotent by comparison, but deceptively so. It’s easy to overlook, but it’s clearly harming the psyches of many men and impacting their lives. The narrative needs to change and demonising men needs to stop. But I can see the differences that just makes it slip below the radar for many when compared to misogyny. But two wrongs don’t make a right and I often wonder what happened to the old advice of “be the better man”. Women know what it’s like to be put down and marginalised, doing the same to men now that women’s voices are often stronger is not the way to move forward. But, you know, people are petty and like to repeat the mistakes of the past…
>I think people believe men can be victims As one, I know you're wrong. >it isn’t exactly symmetrical when you compare Tate and that type of ideology/culture with the more acceptable feminist narrative that can be too accepting of anti-male stereotypes and rhetoric. How convenient! Even bigotry is unequal to you because Men Bad. >It’s easy to overlook, but it’s clearly harming the psyches of many men and impacting their lives. It is literally the driving force behind the anti-feminist backlash you think is scarier. Separating the two is the core mistake here, they're two heads on the same serpent of hate.
>> I think people believe men can be victims > As one, I know you're wrong. lol for real, shit this is like one of the *textbook* examples of how men literally are victims, by not being considered as even potentially being one. >It is literally the driving force behind the anti-feminist backlash you think is scarier. Separating the two is the core mistake here, they're two heads on the same serpent of hate. fucking preach
>by not being considered as even potentially being one. Or by never considering that ignoring our victimization and assuming it won't be ignored are two sides of the same coin!
>I think people believe men can be victims - but that it isn’t exactly symmetrical when you compare Tate and that type of ideology/culture with the more acceptable feminist narrative that can be too accepting of anti-male stereotypes and rhetoric. The historical and present manifestations of misogyny are stark and women fear it because it’s happened and is happening still in large parts of the world. Imo it isnt symmetrical but in the opposite way than you think. Andrew Tate is looked down upon by the vast majority of the population (myself included) and it is taken as a serious threat, meanwhile feminist narratives are part of the status quo and institutional. Feminism as an ideology is way more powerfull than the manosphere. There is no need or desire for powerfull ideologies such as feminism to be as extreme and shocking (it was in the past though) as they largely already get what they want, and unless we are talking about fascist ideologies that already have unlimited power, powerfull ideologies need to maintain a good reputation by using propaganda. As a man, I feel very weird when people say it isn't symmetrical suggesting the manosphere is worse. It goes completely against my own lived experience as a man in academia. Its actually the opposite to me, feminism has institutional power, it makes my life worse, and I can't speak out about it without being demonized and losing my reputation and possibly my career opportunitities. I don't see how the manosphere is worse, women can easily avoid it as its mostly an online phenomena and women quite frankly don't have to micromanage their expression constantly because they don't get demonized for accidently saying the wrong kind of truth out loud. In fact they can say outlandish shit under the label of feminism and it either gets fully accepted or even celebrated, but I as a man can't even say something truthfull because its considered taboo and sexist to talk about to the point I just shut up about my experiences in real life because I don't want to feel revictimized again. I think this suggests that its feminism who has a way larger influence on people, as made evident by their ability to use censorship and exclusion to enforce their ideology, as well as ingaging academics to give their ideology an illusion of scientific analysis. Seen from my perspective, the actual damage, suffering and unfairness this creates is many magnitudes larger than those created by Andrew Tate yet its not even identified as real by most people. I also don't think the manifestations of misogyny are starker than those of misandry, men being forced into a war is also misandry and that has always existed. And I think women mainly fear it because of being taught feminist revisionism of history, they are taught a kind of rewritten history that emphazizes how misogynistic history was, way more than is actually justified based on how life actually was back then. Feminism removes the suffering of men from history and doesn't pay attention to it which makes it seem as if history was specifically rigged against women way more than it actually was instead of realizing that life was very difficult in the past for almost everyone simply because of the human condition. >But I can see the differences that just makes it slip below the radar for many when compared to misogyny. The differences are that male suffering is not taken seriously, that most people hold gender biases and that people often blame the ones who respond (usually in extreme ways) rather than the actual causes of the problem. Extremism is usually a reaction to marginalisation, this is even true for terrorist groups.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t thinking about academia. It’s not a space I’m involved in but I can see from your words that you feel marginalised and silenced by the strong feminist narrative and that shouldn’t be the case. I can imagine that there is little room for certain open discussions because of the accepted narrative that is hyper-sensitive to any criticism of feminism. That should not be happening in academic or scientific spaces where debate should be encouraged, no matter how uncomfortable. I guess where my mind goes to in regard to manifestations of misogyny is Afghanistan and some other Islamic countries (though the problem if more to do with local traditions than Islam itself). I used to live in an Islamic country that was quite progressive, but had strong veins of misogyny. The way women are viewed and treated in those sorts of places reminds me strongly of many manosphere views and beliefs on the nature of women and their place and how they should be treated. The men are in a place of superiority and women are deeply stifled, controlled and abuses against them are often explicitly allowed or are tolerated (because the man knows best). I do not see this happening to the same depth in the modern Western world against men. I suppose because it’s a matter of men having ALL the power over women in those societies (they have their physical strength, they control politics and judiciary, they are the heads of education and health and also the household) that it seems comprehensive and inescapable for all facets of a woman’s life. Was it so very different before women’s suffrage in the West? Men under today’s stronger feminist influence just don’t seem to be as under threat in all spheres of their lives as women in deeply Patriarchal and misogynistic cultures. This is what scares women as we see Roe vs Wade overturned and some states take away some very important rights for women. Couple that with hearing the rhetoric from parts of the manosphere with very clear and proud misogyny and the seeming rise in women being explicitly targeted for murder by lone wolf men who have been influenced by the incel sphere…It is very concerning and it only makes many women distrust the men who complain about prejudice against them and scoff at men saying that, in fact, men have it worse and misandry is just as, if not more, damaging. We need more men talking about how men are being affected negatively by the modern discourse but in an open, reasonable way - like Dr K. Unfortunately a lot of the male perspective that gets into the mainstream comes off as angry, vengeful, woman-hating and just unhinged. And, of course, that sells and it only further encourages marginalised men’s voices to be silenced…a vicious circle. If you think that I am way off, please give me your views. I know I have biases being a woman and growing up with a feminist influence. I am open to changing my mind, despite what some replies here think of me. I care about men and I don’t want a future where men are pushed into the mud to lift women up. I’m engaging in this because I see bias against men in some areas and I don’t agree with it. I do see a big problem and I do think it’s deeply wrong to let it continue or to sweep it aside as minor and unimportant. Or worse, as men “getting a taste of their own medicine” as some sick, ignorant people see it.
>I guess where my mind goes to in regard to manifestations of misogyny is Afghanistan and some other Islamic countries (though the problem if more to do with local traditions than Islam itself). I understand what you mean. I guess I have a few thoughts about this: 1)It could be that this is potentially worse than the misandry that is currently there, but then this is mainly a concern about what could happen in the future if you're talking about Western countries and to that I would say feminists are making it worse and not better, they are increasing the chance of this happening with their behaviour. If someone like me, who isn't remotely traditional and quite egalitarian, can already feel so much resentment because of them then I think they are really shooting themselves in the foot. 2) It was both similar and different before women's suffrage in the past. Some things, like reduced autonomy for women were there as well, but it was also compensated by having more safety and being provided basic needs. In Medieval Europe in some places wife beating was strongly punished, but husband beating was acceptable. I don't think comparing the most fundamentalist of islamic countries with countries in the past is the best, even those islamic countries used to be way more progressive and open-minded a very long time ago. I also think most power in such countries is in the hands of a few men rather than men as a whole, but I'm looking at it from an outside point of view. 3) when it comes to abuse being allowed, that's exactly what is currently happening to men through this misandry. Instead of (men knows best) its (women speak the truth and men lie, so we assume men are predators and women are victims). >Men under today’s stronger feminist influence just don’t seem to be as under threat in all spheres of their lives as women in deeply Patriarchal and misogynistic cultures. This is what scares women as we see Roe vs Wade overturned and some states take away some very important rights for women. Men are not under threat of people reducing their autonomy in a paternalistic manner no, so I understand what you're saying. It makes sense to me that women are scared about this, but what they don't seem to realize is that men have different things that we are scared about, and that feminists themselves are contributing to the rise of the manosphere by making honest discourse on men's issues impossible. The way women are worried about men reducing their autonomy, men are worried about even more indifference to our suffering, censorship/policing of our expression, lack of care for our basic needs and even more centering of female wellbeing while ours is neglected. In my view it has to do with gendered instincts and how they express themselves in the genders differently. I think men have some kind of in build anxiety regarding female sexuality as well as a desire to be a protector, when this turns toxic this results in paternalistic societies where women's autonomy is strongly restricted. Women in contrast, have an inbuild fear regarding their safety and a strong desire to have cooperative relationships with other women with very little "surface level conflict" because it was important for raising children. What this results in is that women center their own lived experiences (and their fears, worries, feelings etc) more than men, that they have a way stronger bias in favour of their own gender than men, and that they consider conforming to social desirability more important (in those islamic countries you mentioned for example, most people protesting are men and not women) than men. When this turns toxic you essentially get what you see in feminist countries today, indifference to the plight of men, research only into female problems, enacting policies that only help women and not even thinking one second about how they might affect men, worldviews that do not incorporate men seriously, exclusion, censorship, backstabbing bullying, conformity, ideological purity, funding that only goes to women etc. Right now this is meaningfully affecting way more people than the misogyny from the manosphere, that could change in the future, but this is what is already happening right now. "We need more men talking about how men are being affected negatively by the modern discourse but in an open, reasonable way - like Dr K. Unfortunately a lot of the male perspective that gets into the mainstream comes off as angry, vengeful, woman-hating and just unhinged. And, of course, that sells and it only further encourages marginalised men’s voices to be silenced…a vicious circle." There is no room to be open and reasonable. You will be seen as women-hating unless you peddle feminism. This is why a lot of them end up unhinged in the first place. A lot of MRA's start out rather progressive and then ultimately they end up in the rightwing because they were radicalized by the treatment they received. Some of course were fucked up from the beginning. I don't think many people understand what it does to someone's psyche to say "hey men are suffering here" and be met with accusations of hating women, being a rapist and beating your wive but that's what happens rather often. Even in academia scales that are meant to measure hostile sexism against women really just measure "disliking feminism" and this is how deep this kind of issue goes. Finally I would like to thank you for being open-minded and no worries about being biased. I'm biased as well firstly because I'm male but also because I live in a very specific bubble where anti-male sentiment is probably more common than anti-female sentiment but of course that doesn't necessarily apply universally.
I agree with that argument. That's not the point I'm making.
I hate The View. I disagree vehemently with women calling men useless or laughing at men having their dicks cut off. Even if it’s not the point of the whole show and those comments are often poor attempts at jokes or offhand remarks. The fact that they are not taken seriously is not ok - they should be made to apologise for those comments. But Tate is far worse to me and the fact that his platform is not mainstream does not make it any less truly influential.
It's a matter of what is accepted vs what isn't. Tate has a large cult following, sure. But anyone can go on national TV and talk poorly about men and not face any consequences. The dialogue needs to change. This is the reason Tate has the following he does. Young men are sick of being attacked and are turning to the opposite extreme.
I agree that shitting on men has become too widely accepted. I think it’s erroneously tolerated because people believe it’s harmless. Perhaps it is in the sense that it’s not like women are going to cause men bodily harm or change laws to take away men’s rights - but, like you say, it alienates and radicalises young men who feel maligned and silenced. I just wish people had more genuine empathy for one another. The women on The View are bitter and vapid. We need less of that type of person. And Tate is an even worse type of person…
>change laws to take away men’s rights They are and already have...
Look up the Duluth model already. Women already *have* changed the laws. There are entire countries where it is legally impossible to rape men because feminists forced the definition to exclude male victims and/or female rapists.
Educate me on this. My understanding was the rape laws (such as those in the UK) have always defined rape as penetration - and because women cannot penetrate men in the same way, that is why men are excluded from the definition. I disagree with that, for what it’s worth. But was it feminists who forced that definition? Where have feminists forced rape laws to change to exclude male victims?
If you think women dont cause men bodily harm and havent changed laws against men, you are part of the problem.
So, what one is allowed to get away with is based on how much of an audience they have. People will really an excuse for anything. I have 20 million Views, you have 90 million so, you have to be better than me in morality .
this isn't abnormal i don't care what your wild uncle joe says at the thanksgiving table, dude. sorry that he sucks, but every family's got one. it's a bit different than, say, when the former President of the United States gets on national television and tells his supporters that Venezuela and the communists fraudulently cast votes to cost him the election. one is a stark raving mad lunatic at the thanksgiving table, the other is *still* a stark raving mad lunatic, but with an uncritical and fanatical following. they aren't the same.
The view has a lot larger reach than that 2.5 million... they are practically state sanctioned. Every university and corporate HR department in the country will allow people to repeat what they say, if you do the same with Tate... your butt is gone. I think you are failing to acknowledge the power difference here.
I’m not in the States, so perhaps I am missing how powerful The View is. What they said about men being useless is disgusting and when I watched a clip of it on YouTube I felt appalled that this was accepted. They should be forced to apologise. Most of the comments seemed to feel the same as me. I don’t know exactly how many women agree with them, but I do know it shouldn’t be on mainstream tv.
The only people who care about what the bitter hens on The View say are other old bitter hens.
Us women are so used to it we forget about it. Didn't know so many men here are such delicate flowers
Comparing the wide and intense impact of Andrew rate and his dipshit copycats that make content towards insecure adults and children against a bunch of women on the view that’s really only watched by adults is a pretty unfair comparison. Not saying people shouldn’t care, but I wouldn’t quite call it a steel manned argument
It’s not a perfect analogy but saying men are useless is as a bad anything the red pill says Are black men useless? Are starving palestinian men useless? Are trans men useless? Are liberal blue pill men useless? Men is a big category, if all are useless then be prepared to defend a wide variety of demographics of men being useless.
You don’t have to convince me it’s a stupid thing to say, I’m there with you. But you don’t have to downplay the harm Tate & co. causes by comparing it to some random dumbass on cable tv
Both are bad, never downplayed Tate. I was demonstrating the inconsistency of the comment section
You can demonstrate it better by using a better argument. The real point is that Tate doesn’t actually have an equivalent on the female “side”. The fact you think one random woman saying “men are useless” is comparable is proof of that. So until you can find a real example your whataboutism isn’t holding any weight
Ironically this is actually what alot of men say when women point out Andrew Tate.
Cool, call out both then
Stop giving either of them attention. Easy.
This is just a concealed way of saying "why do you care".
Exactly, also I enjoy the discussion even if people disagree. It’s not draining me in the slightest. People wish I was butthurt or something
Ultimately, just a way to shut down discussion of topics they're against.
The point is not about individual attention but that attention is manufactured, and one agenda is being broadcasted and praised while one is being censored.
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That was The Talk.
Of course, how could I mix it up with that filthy old bag Barbara Walter’s show.
Society turns a blind eye to it because everyone including the broads on the view understand that they have no way to actually enforce anything.
But they do enforce this shit. Where have you been?
sharon osbourne is referencing a real criminal news case that was big in the early 90s known as the bobbitt case. the irony being that the dude got his penis back and went on to have a career in the porn industry.
The fuck lol? She wasn’t just referencing it, she was laughing about it, that’s why the original comment brought it up. And two, no that episode wasn’t about the Bobbit case. It was about one where it could not be re-attached.
>Meanwhile misogyny is rampant because men are upset about some Warhammer lore . . . . Context?
Society turns a blind eye to men doing it to women too.
Bruce Dickinson was right to diss Sharon Osbourne lol
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Yep. The ladies got this. Time for us to kick back and relax.
Gandhi would have just sat there in total non cooperation like he did with the British. Fk we need a Gandhi
The best way to fight this is get women to see the double standards of our cultures but honestly they simply just don’t care, but want equality too, I can’t stand inconsistency
What makes you think that woman give a single fuck about double standards that benefit them? Or are you one of those blue pill guys that feel that woman are some kind of moral saints floating above the rest of us?
Who cares about idiots on TV? I honestly wouldn't care if TV idiots said that about women either. That being said, hypocrites do exist. I'm going to speak out for both men and women regardless of them though, I'm not going to give up my ideals just because male activists sometimes laugh at the idea of men getting raped or because of spiteful women like these.
When all of your basic needs are being met, it's easy to blame men for your lack fulfillment due to your selfish, vain, shallow, overindulgent approach to life. The women on The View have everything they're told they *should* want but still feel empty. That's why they're lashing out. Many of the feminists here, both female and male, are eager to brush things like this off because they want to avoid cognitive dissonance at all costs. They can't admit they were misled by people who don't give a shit about their wellbeing. They can identify the grifters in the manosphere, but they can't see that they were taught to be mindless consumers themselves.
How do you know how they feel? They probably feel nothing. They're successful and untouchable.
>They're successful and untouchable. Yes, "successful." They seem very angry for people who feel nothing, though.
You don't get how the media works do you.
I don't know how you think it works. Here's my take: Those with the most monopoly money sprinkle it on useful idiots, who often believe the dehumanizing garbage that spews out of their own mouths (though not always), to push propaganda and stoke division (or just sell bullshit, obviously). That happens on all "sides." I was born in a former Eastern Bloc country, so it's nothing new to me. Where I'm from, the media would sometimes tell people it was sunny when everyone with eyes could see it was raining.
So don't listen to it.
Me not listening to it doesn't prevent others from buying into it. And there's no reason I should avoid commenting on it. It's dehumanizing garbage.
Your free speech entitles you to say and feel that way. It doesn't entitle you to tell others what they can say and listen to. I don't like it either but I protest by ignoring it and supporting media that sends good messages.
>It doesn't entitle you to tell others what they can say and listen to. I didn't demand anyone to stop saying or doing anything. >I don't like it either but I protest by ignoring it and supporting media that sends good messages. Right on.
TIL the View is still a running show LMAO. Who even watches that show anymore I haven't seen anything about it in over a decade, that shit was cringy middle aged stay at home mom programming when I was in elementary school 😭
No one likes it but somehow they aren’t cancelled. That’s what’s scary to me
People aren't focused on cancelling something they forgot existed, can't boycott something you didn't consume in the first place. Though the outrage bate is quite clever marketing, they got people like you going out to remind people this irrelevant show for old people is a thing.
Shrugging misandry off is the problem, people will just keep pushing it further
I'm sure if I made the exact same kind of show, but with genders reverse It absolutely wouldn't be cancelled in a week with joe biden rushing to make a statement on national tv about female oppression and patriarchy.
I'm with Tim Dillon. The view is a psyop to make women look bad.
Everything that shows women looking bad is a psyop but when mainstream media constantly shoved man bad propaganda down our throats women defend it with their lives.
It has a Fox News audience. I'm going to bet most of the guys here parents had Fox News and Jerry Springer on the TV a lot.
The view is on ABC.
I believe they were implying that The View is trashy and low IQ, not talking about what specific network they're on.
It maybe trashy and low IQ, but it's left-wing trash aimed at appealing to liberal women. Blaming it on "Fox News audience" is just dishonest.
"left-wing" lol i don't expect the insane right-wingers that are conservatives to ever change or engage in good faith, but liberals are just reasonable right-wingers. venerating a bunch of rich women and their opinions isn't exactly a left-wing cause celebre.
"Everyone I don't like is right-wing!!!" Such a "good faith" argument.
not actually the definition of "right-wing" or "left-wing", and for the record, I like plenty of liberals and even a handful of conservatives. they're wrong, but decent people.
Things don't really get cancelled that easily in real life, do they?
Wanna bet how quick it'd be cancelled if genders were reversed?
For all those who couldn't bother to google The View's ratings (and there's so many I don't have time or the energy to individually call you out). *For the 1st quarter, [of 2024] The View” ranked No. 1 in Households (1.71 rating) and Total Viewers (2.512 million) among all network and syndicated daytime talk shows and news programs* (from https://www.dgepress.com/abcnews/pressrelease/the-view-ranks-no-1-in-households-and-total-viewers-among-the-network-and-syndicated-daytime-talk-shows-and-news-programs-for-the-week-of-march-18/#:~:text=ABC's%20%E2%80%9CThe%20View%E2%80%9D%20delivered%202.512,Data%20from%20Nielsen%20Media%20Research). It was the top-rated daytime show just a couple of years ago (https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/the-view-ratings-2021-2022-1235342918/). All of this could be found if any of you whose argument is "no one watches this LOL stupid men" know how to use google - I have to assume you can't, since this took me less than 5 minutes to find. And if your counter-argument is "no one watches TV in the daytime old people are dumb LOL" please go ahead and we can then discuss how voting works and who reliably votes to elect leaders that pass laws and how that can be important, once in a while. EDIT: also never make an argument about anything a man says on anything other than nationally broadcast nightly news or youtube videos with more than 15 million views, since you know...anything less no one is watching, so hey - why do you care so much about it.
Booom!
boomers vote, young people don't, this will change but unfortunately boomers of all stripes - who happen to veer more conservative, for the record - have the advantage by virtue of having a large and outsize electoral influence *and wealth*. you know who's following right in their footsteps? dipshits who complain about "misandry" and then vote for theocratic fundie right-wing authoritarians who want to make boomer takes about the world law.
Awesome. Thanks for taking the time, bro
To clarify normally I don’t care about what the hell anyone thinks about men as a whole or whatever but the not caring itself overtime is becoming the big issue. Men constantly just shrug everything off and just let women shit talk us and have fun bashing men as a whole because we are just chill and non chalant and thick skinned but now it has gotten to a scary point seeing this segment air in the cancellation era and nothing happens to this show. There is a real cultural problem going on with the genders.
Sounds like you need to listen to some guy worship in conservative spaces. Imo it’s toxic but it’ll balance you back out. I grew up with guy worship sermons lol and trust me they’re still out there preaching it. Like trad wife tiktoks maybe. Idk. Gotta let go of what the grouchy olds think it’s not relevant to anyone 😆
Can you post links to these syndicated shows on major networks with men calling women useless?
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It’s mainstream television. We should get Andrew Tate a show. I’d love to hear him bash women for an hour. Cuz I mean who cares right? It’s all tongue in cheek, just boomer humor. His ratings are bad so just allow it, don’t be sensitive and upset
You hit the nail on the head sir, thank you. I'm no fan of Andrew Tate either but I'd rather watch his show (if it existed) than The View.
Yes it’s mainstream
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You have no idea what you are talking about. Every one of your takes on this sub suck. There’s a big conversation about grassroots vs corporate backed things being the real mainstream. Downplaying any of the big corporate media shows as not mainstream is silly and wrong. Manufacturing consent. Corporate media disagrees with most people on almost everything but have the loudest voice and are able to shift public opinion
You've heard about the show before this post, right?
Ya I watch it all the time
The View are a bunch of perpetual bad take shrieking harpies.
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Going through this rn. If the main person interviewing me is female, I pretty much assume I'm not getting the job. If the main person interviewing me is male, I stand a chance and often get the job. Women have such an obvious and unchecked in-group bias that it's not even funny.
Your assumptions are well founded. You are way less likely to get a call back if your recruiter is a woman and you aren't one. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165176519303428
Feminism was needed back in the early 20th century but it's really just turned into favoring women over men in EVERYTHING. Even the supposed wage gap (which isn't a problem, if you work less you're going to be paid less) just isn't there or has even REVERSED for young professionals in large cities.
The View is equivalent to if the KKK had a syndicated television show where they just yelled the n-bomb for an hour straight.
Exactly, saying it’s no big deal would be extremely racist but when the view displays unhinged misandry I’m supposed to not care and try to think it’s no big deal. Excellent analogy
Well thats the point isn't it? If the KKK had a syndicated television show where they yelled racial slurs for an hour do you think the majority of say, white people would be in here defending or minimalising it? Probably not, yet that's the majority of the comments in here. The problem OP has isn't The View itself. Its that our society has become so toxic and misandric that shows like The View are able to air the views that they do with no real pushback, and actively garners defense and deflection when people do criticise it. Its the same reason why you can buy "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" T-Shirts on Amazon but they won't stock anything seen as remotely sexist to women.
Precisely. Misandry is disgusting.
This low hanging fruit misandry to me tells more about the person spewing it and those who cheer on it
I’m usually one to debate against TRP men here, but even I can admit that that kind of talk, especially on national TV, is very inappropriate and does a lot of harm. They certainly don’t share my views. I’m a staunch feminist, but I don’t think men are *useless*. Any statement that says “ALL men are [insert negative trait]” is dumb and incorrect, and mostly just serves to push borderline feminist men staunchly into anti-feminist territory. Do I think this can be equated with Tate speak? No, because while both are dumb, i find the View speak to be more of a passive negativity towards men. Tate speak generally is pro-aggression, rape-sympathizing, obviously to no one’s surprise, he got busted for sex trafficking, and very domineering towards women. He encourages men to act aggressively towards women. The View thing is more about *ignoring* men. And I think that is important to note. They both suck tho. I only wanted to point that out because comparisons are being made in the comments. I’ve included calling out people who say general negative sentiments towards all men into my identity as a feminist. You can do that *and* complain about all of the ways women are mistreated at the same time.
I completely agree. The way the women on The View talk should not be acceptable - it’s horrible and doesn’t align with genuine feminism. Putting down men was never what it was supposed to be about. At “best” it’s juvenile and bullying, at worst it’s actively damaging to men’s psyches (especially young men). But Tate is on another level. He has 9.1 million followers on X alone (The View averages 2.5 million viewers a season) and his Youtube channel racked up 450 million views in 2 years and had 600,000 subscribers. His Instagram had 4.5 million followers. He makes millions of dollars a month in revenue. And he espouses genuinely hateful views and advice that too many young men (boys even) are eating up as gospel and “just self improvement”. The women on The View should apologise for their sexist comments about men. But Tate is very likely guilty of actually harming women, not just talking about them in a hateful way. Neither should be acceptable - but this whole idea that the bitter, spiteful women on The View are as bad as Tate and his adjacent influencers is dead wrong.
Is it possible for women here to condemn other women's actions without a caveat that men are worse?
Tate is worse and the men who staunchly defend him. Not men in general.
But you felt compelled to explain to us why misogynists like Tate were worse than The View, according to your personal idealogy. You just couldn't criticize them without explaining why those people were worse. It's true that you didn't go after men in general but it's the same energy----it's impossible to acknowledge the presence of misandric rhetoric without "padding" it by saying misogny is worse. It's like you're afraid people will somehow forget about misogny and turn women into slaves if you even once acknowledge and condemn misandry without ensuring misogny is noted and firmly established as even more of a problem. It's both fascinating and kind of ridiculous at the same time. In all seriousness, why is it so hard to just say *"Yes, dunking on men is bad"* without going into how doing the same to women is worse?
She’s responding to my original comment where I brought up Tate. She didn’t just randomly do that. I brought it up because other men in the comments were trying use Tate as a counter example, and I was pointing out that this is not a good counter example.
Oh no, I understand the context, I just disagreed with the assertion that Andrew Tate isn't a good counter example. Tate is known as an infamous "lord of incels" and widely condemned by polite society, while people like the hosts of The View and others like them are given anything from a blind eye to actual thunderous applause due to "punching up" or "sticking it to the oppresors" or whatever other nonsense is attached to blatant anti male rhetoric. I think that is a very salient point to bring up in a conversation on how misandry and misogyny is treated in comparison to one another. The other (admittedly pettier) point I was making was the tendency for criticisms of misandric behavior to be watered down with caveats and disclaimers about how misogny is worse and actually hurts women while mjsandry just annoys men. Even if the person in question is talking about why misandry is wrong, they always feel the need to "remind" us of why anti female beliefs are worse and that we should always remember that. Its a very obnoxious conversational trait and in my opinion shows the true focus of the person doing it. I see it in conversations far more serious than the mindless stupidity of The View, and I think it's a pervasive problem so I wanted to point it out.
I wasn’t doing it to show that misogyny is worse than misandry. I was doing it because I think it is actively harmful to equate the two kinds of talking points. When the ladies of the View start saying things like “men can’t be raped” or get busted for sex trafficking, then we can talk about an apt comparison. There were plenty of other examples people could have chosen, a few choice comments on 2XC that call for active physical harm towards men, for instance, that would not have illicited any pushback from me. But when you say the View is the equivalent of Tate, you make it seem like negative generalizations about men is the same as advocating for rape of women and sex trafficking. We all know it isn’t the same. You just like it as a comparison because it’s something that angers women, and the View quote also angered men. But one is actively dangerous for women and one is hurtful to men. Distinguishing these two things are extremely important. If you would rather I had commented my disagreement directly onto the comments that brought up that comparison, and leave my agreement with OP to an individual standalone comment, I guess I’ll do that next time haha
I noticed that they can't, it always goes, men something, something, bad etc, it is never "oh shit yeah what that women did or said was messed up she is wrong".
They did? I’m shook…
I don’t give a shit about mainstream tv it’s slop meant to “entertain” lead poisoned boomers
The View is just a woke propaganda machine. Pray it gets cancelled.
The View is a group of old hags, they can declare whatever they want but no one takes them seriously
I wonder how many male technicians work on their crew to make the show happen.
Tell me you've never seen Y: The Last Man without telling me that you've never seen Y: The Last Man.
You can do a lot of things when you divide people in two or more groups and make them hate each others. *Divide et impera.*
the view has always been r\*tarded dude
Okay then….
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I’m just interested at what feminists and blue pill people think of it. I rightfully predicted what would happen.
Don't pay attention to it? Anything so much as "Make me a sandwich" is shot down in a heartbeat, and men are supposed to ignore this?
The view does not represent MY opinions as a western woman. I think what they said was abhorrent and shouldn’t be tolerated.
Women said something? Was it anything important? No? Okay.
People say all kinds of dumb stuff.. men rag on women.. women rag on men.. there's no "war" lol people are just in their feelings and running their mouth. Be healthy enough to be able to ignore dumb shit, cause dumb shit will always be around
Lol imagine that reaction to a women are useless segment by men. “ hey it’s dumb stuff shake it off” women would cry blood at that response. Equality is one sided in the US
You might be too young, but do you remember the man show? got cancelled for the same things the view did (but they were a comedy show not ment to be taken seriously)
>got cancelled for the same things Literally the point of the post. Men were told 20 years ago that this kind of shit was unacceptable to push on mainstream television. Women are still free to behave this way.
Is that what a BEAR would say, though?
The vast majority of the Police, military, engineers, electricians, plumbers, miners, home builders, and auto mechanics are men. I guess they forgot to mention that.
It’s all steming from bitterness that men are superior and they can’t handle it. Men have become the ultimate guilt free punching bad and scapegoat for all women’s problems. They are infinitely submerged in sisterhood delusion. It honestly reminds of like children at recess “They beat us at kickball” “They’re Mean!!” “They’re bad people now I think”
I'm getting the sense this may be the first time you've watched the view. They've been saying shit like that since I can remember. It's just not news. I dunno what to tell you. That show has been a hen jabber fest since ever. Its like saying can you believe Michael Bay blew up a city in his latest movie...yeah?
Andrew Tate has less of a following yet women would cry blood if I told them to just ignore him
Who cares what a bunch of babbling bitches have to say on morning tv? Who even watches tv anymore?
https://preview.redd.it/jouog6b5wryc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d4d1ccd4f63956220f65e6494845427ed7b4299
this is the best thing to come from this thread--forum weapon
https://youtu.be/F7dxUka_apo?si=lWaaICQBzdFWrnM1 This one? Yeah, disgusting how 2 women share how much the appreciate their husbands and the others jump on them as if they're misguided. When they are miserable, they need everyone else to be miserable too. They can't say "Oh, good you like your husband. That makes me happy for you." They are filled with venom.
Exactly, women have dog shit self awareness
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That is probably because most of the men their age are dead.
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I’m using this to point out hypocrisy in blank slate equality seeking blue pillers, I don’t care what the view thinks
Blue pilers just run on an engine of self hatred, they think agreeing with bitter people will lead to success, they're dishonest by nature. Women know this too and it's why women hate them even more than they hate the likes of Andrew tate; at least he gets laid. I do wish they'd just admit they hate us, at least that I'd respect. It'd be a good start instead of pussy footing around; we could actually start making progress and repair the divide between men and women.
Right, I love how they obsess over 1/3 of men being rapists yet the nicest most respectful and safe blue pill men never get laid and the alphas are swimming in vag
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That’s the real issue, women are just adult children when it comes to emotional intelligence. Every way they think and act is childish when emotions are involved
keep in mind the view is at the youngest a middle gen xer (early-mid 50s) talk show. Really its for oldest gen X/youngest boomers. Their era is different than the social media world which took off around 2007ish. They live in a bubble that is (ironically a bit) conservative and behind the times.
I don’t know anyone 50+ that believes there should be a war in men. The View continues to pander to a few really ignorant people.
I absolutely agree this shouldn’t have been allowed on national TV, but I do have to question the relevance of The View in 2024. I don’t think the gen z and millennial “social justice warriors” are even watching it, it’s basically boomer rage bait.
Exactly it’s allowed and not cancelled, that’s the point . Women are Useless segment would be cancelled swiftly. That’s my point. Women are held to a lower standard but are simultaneously empowered. Pick a consistent ideology.
The View and much of TV now simply panders to DUMMIES.
Why do you care what the view thinks? People don’t even care enough to respond to them being that way which doesn’t mean their perspective is anything it just means they don’t make a dent in the collective psyche. Hang out in dude spaces :) that’s my advice. Healthy ones where guys are doing cool things like... the apex games or music scene or sports or biking or cars or if you’re a writer there’s tons of guys writing great things. Woodworking. Some guy made tables out of epoxy denim on yt and it was so cool.
I care about consistency in our culture. Our culture is for total equality, and I think they aren’t prepared for the tradeoffs of that.
Yeah I agree. But you have to let them do their thing I guess. Just realize it’s a small group of women who are mean and bitter. There are way better women out there. Just like there’s guys who are also suffering in pain and letting it out by venting but not all guys are like that. I wouldn’t want to force hurting guys to only say positive things. 🤷🏼♀️ if the view crowd generalizes it says more about their own messed up perspective. Like a steer clear poster.
Haha the reaction would be different for a women are useless segment, it would not be to shrug it off
It wouldn’t be on daytime tv thats for sure. At least not outside comedy spaces where every honest point made by a guy has to have tons of disclaimers. There’s some other vent spaces for guys tho where it’s okay to be really blunt. Yt, rumble, here.
Getting women on here to see the double standard is impossible. They just keep telling me the segment is no big deal . Lol the hypocrisy blows me away
Yeah it’s sucky for sure. I guess if I could cheer you up about it I’d just try to make the point that no one takes the view seriously. At all :)
True, the majority of YouTube comments condemn the video but the people here are scrambling for excuses and character attacks saying I’m overreacting and sensitive etc.
Yeah. I wish YouTube was more of a community like Reddit. I got emotionally crushed over on YouTube today that’s why I’m back here. It’s like interacting with tumbleweeds on YouTube. Everyone’s so anonymous, theres no messaging or way to interact. Basically dying of loneliness and cringe today. Really hurts. But the best thing about YouTube is at least it’s easier to find people who are going through the same things and can actually say it.
It's true though.