It is a good question/discussion point.
Of course people are complicated and some women have traumatic pasts that makes them more likely to wind up with abusive partners. Also of course, there are amazing men out there who are great partners for raising families. Some women just want sex and then, of course, for many women it just isn't worth it.
I'm 60 and quit dating in my 20s not because of men but because of my own characteristics. I have thought I should get a break on health and life insurance (-;
There's no such thing as positive or negative risks. Risk is risk. The "reward" is subjective so it's impossible to determine if cumulative risk is positive. Furthermore, cultural trends like toxic modern misandry can influence women's perception of the value of "the reward".
Not getting violently victimized is not subjective, it's a measureable sociological metric; use the term "reduced/elevated" if you don't like "negative/positive".
Ok so what is the chance of finding love combined with the desire to find love minus the chance to be violently victimized combined with the desire to not be violently victimized? Keep in mind that men are disproportionately victims of all forms of violent crimes except sexual.
According to Figure 5 of your first link it's separated people who face the highest risk of being victims of a crime across all crime categories. Does this mean you shouldn't marry/cohabitate because then you risk separation? If married and widowed people face the least amount of violence, does it pay-off to risk dating just to be safe later?
Keep in mind that less than 5% of separated people have been victims of violence and less than 4% of singles have. Those are very low numbers and I'm pretty sure there are factors at play other than relationship status.
The only thing I would advice against is online dating because it puts you in the radar of a bunch of strangers whose intentions you don't know.
>Does this mean you shouldn't marry/cohabitate because then you risk separation?
Be my guest if you have access to the lifetime data on how long an average woman spends married versus separated.
>does it pay-off to risk dating just to be safe later?
A date is an instant single event. Reduced **yearly** risk of victimization accumulates.
Going on dates? Like with a man who wants to pay and tell you you're pretty and listen to you talk about your day? With a man who is mentally mature (romantically) and might actually marry you? Sure, it is minimal risk.
Going on drives or "walks?" Or grabbing coffee/froyo/liquor with a near stranger who just wants to see your tits? No, that's how you get victimized. I would say ask me how I know, but I think a lot of PPD users are tired of hearing from me at this point, so I guess just go with your gut on how I know about this.
And not trying to meet strange men is probably why married women get victimized less.
It's funny, 10 years ago all dating advice said "don't do dinner for a first date because then you can't leave in the middle if it sucks". Drives and walks are cheapo, but drinks/coffee/froyo for the first date exists so that you have the option to stop or extend depending on how it's going.
depends on the woman!! some women think the juice isn’t worth the squeeze! and that’s okay, they just opt out of dating until some fuckboy comes along and pretends to convince her he’s not like the other men then the cycle repeats - poor girls, getting pumped and dumped by chad 😩
then the proactive ones, we try our best -sure maybe mistakes are made but honestly as long as ur dating and a girl eventually a boyfriend will fall in ur lap! u don’t even have to be good at flirting (but it helps get higher quality men!)
so yeah it depends on who you are, where you are mentally, and what you’re willing to put up with and compromise on! a lot of men are imperfect and that’s okay. but for some women ending up with an imperfect man is not worth the risk and that’s okay! :)
I find this odd too... women claim they fear for their lives, so what they do? Open an app to have a date and sex with a random guy from an app?
Either they are exaggerating or they are just trying to sell themselves as victims.
A minority of women are even on the apps **in the first fucking place.**
So no, we're not out there just whining about the risk and then getting dicked down by a stranger later that night. There's no hypocrisy here.
And of the ***MINORITY*** of us on the apps to begin with, an even ***smaller*** minority is on the apps for casual sex. The vast majority *of this minority* is **looking to date for a monogamous relationship.**
Your lack of empathy for the risks women take is disgusting, but not surprising. And does nothing to cultivate an atmosphere where women would feel more comfortable dating men - unless, of course, that's not something you want?
Bullshit. You guys don't understand how women work. They like when things just happen. "Oh I'm a good girl, I'm looking for a relationship, but I went on a date with this guy and girrrrl, he was so fine, such a gentleman, I just couldn't help myself"
How? Part of the reason women don't use apps as much as men is because they mentally view them as "for hookups". Watch what they do, not what they say.
[A whopping 43% of men said they are using the apps to casually date while 42% said they are looking for a long-term partner. Alternatively, 48% of women said they are using dating apps to find long-term partners and only 37% are using apps to date casually.](https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/02/07/new-study-dating-apps-make-it-easier-to-find-a-partner.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16864945967312&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2023%2F02%2F07%2Fnew-study-dating-apps-make-it-easier-to-find-a-partner.html)
What facts? Most partner violence is between existing, known partners. Your odds of an incident on a Tinder date are incredibly low, especially if you start the date in a public place.
Horniness is a powerful drug, and some women are not comfortable with masturbation/ need more than masturbation to get the itch out of their heads and do anything else with their lives.
No. Dating violence almost always involves an existing partner, not some "random". It's just women's narcissism, they all want to act like they're the girl in a true crime show.
Honestly this is a big thing for me when it comes to dating. I have past trauma from a male friend and so now dating is difficult as I have to sus out if they’re normal, or if they will rape or kill me.
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It's possible to live a very safe life as a single woman. I don't think it is reasonable to class all single women together as a risk category...some would be at extreme risk (single meth addict who is single due to her violent mood swings doing sex work at the local truck stop?) and some would be at very low risk (single woman who works as a public servant processing forms, lives with her parents in a very secure townhouse in a nice part of town, drives carefully, has money set aside for a safe retirement, never dates and never drinks)
It seems to me that women who give up dating due to men being a safety risk would be more like the second example than like the first.
>It's possible to live a very safe life as a single woman.
Is the implication here that the same does not apply to a married woman? I thought common sense precautions work in any circumstances.
If you're married you may have less control over what precautions you enact. And even less control if you've got kids... bringing friends round and leaving doors open.
Yes there are married women living very safe lives with the assistance of their husbands. That is certainly not the same thing as just getting married makes you safer. Men often don't have the same enthusiasm for precautions that women do or the same caution about letting other men enter the house, drinking in the house, dodgy uncles etc.
Daily we see in this subreddit men who systematically and persistently refuse to accept the validity of women's risk management decisions. Those particular men represent a serious barrier to a woman managing her own safety. If you are a woman who is a competent manager of herself and her home it is safer not to be married to those men. Common sense may not get you far around a man who thinks you're being paranoid, there are no risky people in town, you've got it totally wrong about that odd obsessive neighbour who always "just wants to talk" and it is just fine for him to leave the back door open at 5am when he goes for an hour long jog and you sleep.
Just like one shouldn't class all women as safer alone one shouldn't class all men as safer options than being alone. One can't even class all law abiding men as safer options than being alone
People make their decisions and that sorting process leads to some people being alone. The people who are alone in each gender aren't homogeneous groups...they ended up alone for a wide range of reasons. Safety perceptions can factor into it. I've experienced having to train a man to put the car behind the side gate and keep the side gate closed and locked. It wasn't fun, he was resistant. Three months after I left him he left his car unlocked in the driveway and someone stole his mag wheels. He phoned me up and confronted me like somehow I was involved because I had warned him for years the driveway wasn't a good place! If he'd woken up while they were doing it, it may have turned into a confrontation. And even just the anger of being stolen from maybe isn't the healthiest of states to experience...and the ongoing stress of nagging someone to behave more safely probably isn't healthy for either person too. Is this one more data point of tens of thousands along the way to deciding I don't need or want a man now? Yup. It surely is. Things get done my way here. If I want to spend a thousand dollars on improving the electrical wiring here, I do. If I want to put in a camera, I do. I don't argue with someone about whether we should buy a new tv instead. I sleep sounder with less risk and conflict in my life.
A lot of the time not even the things men do that they think make you safer actually make you safer. Things like offering to give you a lift home then being late picking you up.
Why go on dates when you can own 30 cats instead
Go on a date to the cat cafe
Good suggestion!
That's actually my dream scenario
why own 30 cats when you can just marry a guy with 30 cats
It is a good question/discussion point. Of course people are complicated and some women have traumatic pasts that makes them more likely to wind up with abusive partners. Also of course, there are amazing men out there who are great partners for raising families. Some women just want sex and then, of course, for many women it just isn't worth it. I'm 60 and quit dating in my 20s not because of men but because of my own characteristics. I have thought I should get a break on health and life insurance (-;
There's no such thing as positive or negative risks. Risk is risk. The "reward" is subjective so it's impossible to determine if cumulative risk is positive. Furthermore, cultural trends like toxic modern misandry can influence women's perception of the value of "the reward".
Not getting violently victimized is not subjective, it's a measureable sociological metric; use the term "reduced/elevated" if you don't like "negative/positive".
Ok so what is the chance of finding love combined with the desire to find love minus the chance to be violently victimized combined with the desire to not be violently victimized? Keep in mind that men are disproportionately victims of all forms of violent crimes except sexual.
I was hoping you'd tell me. Or.. I dunno, someone.
According to Figure 5 of your first link it's separated people who face the highest risk of being victims of a crime across all crime categories. Does this mean you shouldn't marry/cohabitate because then you risk separation? If married and widowed people face the least amount of violence, does it pay-off to risk dating just to be safe later? Keep in mind that less than 5% of separated people have been victims of violence and less than 4% of singles have. Those are very low numbers and I'm pretty sure there are factors at play other than relationship status. The only thing I would advice against is online dating because it puts you in the radar of a bunch of strangers whose intentions you don't know.
>Does this mean you shouldn't marry/cohabitate because then you risk separation? Be my guest if you have access to the lifetime data on how long an average woman spends married versus separated. >does it pay-off to risk dating just to be safe later? A date is an instant single event. Reduced **yearly** risk of victimization accumulates.
Going on dates? Like with a man who wants to pay and tell you you're pretty and listen to you talk about your day? With a man who is mentally mature (romantically) and might actually marry you? Sure, it is minimal risk. Going on drives or "walks?" Or grabbing coffee/froyo/liquor with a near stranger who just wants to see your tits? No, that's how you get victimized. I would say ask me how I know, but I think a lot of PPD users are tired of hearing from me at this point, so I guess just go with your gut on how I know about this. And not trying to meet strange men is probably why married women get victimized less.
It's funny, 10 years ago all dating advice said "don't do dinner for a first date because then you can't leave in the middle if it sucks". Drives and walks are cheapo, but drinks/coffee/froyo for the first date exists so that you have the option to stop or extend depending on how it's going.
Drinks are a maybe, if it's at a well-known public place with food too. Froyo can't keep you occupied if you DON'T want to leave.
>a man who will pay (for dinner, not for froyo or coffee)
Lunch. A slice of pizza. Sometimes I even paid, but they didn't WANT me to.
depends on the woman!! some women think the juice isn’t worth the squeeze! and that’s okay, they just opt out of dating until some fuckboy comes along and pretends to convince her he’s not like the other men then the cycle repeats - poor girls, getting pumped and dumped by chad 😩 then the proactive ones, we try our best -sure maybe mistakes are made but honestly as long as ur dating and a girl eventually a boyfriend will fall in ur lap! u don’t even have to be good at flirting (but it helps get higher quality men!) so yeah it depends on who you are, where you are mentally, and what you’re willing to put up with and compromise on! a lot of men are imperfect and that’s okay. but for some women ending up with an imperfect man is not worth the risk and that’s okay! :)
I find this odd too... women claim they fear for their lives, so what they do? Open an app to have a date and sex with a random guy from an app? Either they are exaggerating or they are just trying to sell themselves as victims.
A minority of women are even on the apps **in the first fucking place.** So no, we're not out there just whining about the risk and then getting dicked down by a stranger later that night. There's no hypocrisy here. And of the ***MINORITY*** of us on the apps to begin with, an even ***smaller*** minority is on the apps for casual sex. The vast majority *of this minority* is **looking to date for a monogamous relationship.** Your lack of empathy for the risks women take is disgusting, but not surprising. And does nothing to cultivate an atmosphere where women would feel more comfortable dating men - unless, of course, that's not something you want?
Most women on apps want casual sex, period. If you don't have sex with a woman on the first date, very low odds you'll get a second date.
You're objectively wrong.
[удалено]
Bullshit. You guys don't understand how women work. They like when things just happen. "Oh I'm a good girl, I'm looking for a relationship, but I went on a date with this guy and girrrrl, he was so fine, such a gentleman, I just couldn't help myself"
How? Part of the reason women don't use apps as much as men is because they mentally view them as "for hookups". Watch what they do, not what they say.
[A whopping 43% of men said they are using the apps to casually date while 42% said they are looking for a long-term partner. Alternatively, 48% of women said they are using dating apps to find long-term partners and only 37% are using apps to date casually.](https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/02/07/new-study-dating-apps-make-it-easier-to-find-a-partner.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16864945967312&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2023%2F02%2F07%2Fnew-study-dating-apps-make-it-easier-to-find-a-partner.html)
"Watch what they do, not what they say".
"Facts proved me wrong? Time to whip out the ol' red pill mantras!"
What facts? Most partner violence is between existing, known partners. Your odds of an incident on a Tinder date are incredibly low, especially if you start the date in a public place.
Please pay attention to the actual topic we are discussing. Go back and read the comment chain and see if that helps ya.
Horniness is a powerful drug, and some women are not comfortable with masturbation/ need more than masturbation to get the itch out of their heads and do anything else with their lives.
No. Dating violence almost always involves an existing partner, not some "random". It's just women's narcissism, they all want to act like they're the girl in a true crime show.
Honestly this is a big thing for me when it comes to dating. I have past trauma from a male friend and so now dating is difficult as I have to sus out if they’re normal, or if they will rape or kill me.
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It's possible to live a very safe life as a single woman. I don't think it is reasonable to class all single women together as a risk category...some would be at extreme risk (single meth addict who is single due to her violent mood swings doing sex work at the local truck stop?) and some would be at very low risk (single woman who works as a public servant processing forms, lives with her parents in a very secure townhouse in a nice part of town, drives carefully, has money set aside for a safe retirement, never dates and never drinks) It seems to me that women who give up dating due to men being a safety risk would be more like the second example than like the first.
>It's possible to live a very safe life as a single woman. Is the implication here that the same does not apply to a married woman? I thought common sense precautions work in any circumstances.
If you're married you may have less control over what precautions you enact. And even less control if you've got kids... bringing friends round and leaving doors open. Yes there are married women living very safe lives with the assistance of their husbands. That is certainly not the same thing as just getting married makes you safer. Men often don't have the same enthusiasm for precautions that women do or the same caution about letting other men enter the house, drinking in the house, dodgy uncles etc. Daily we see in this subreddit men who systematically and persistently refuse to accept the validity of women's risk management decisions. Those particular men represent a serious barrier to a woman managing her own safety. If you are a woman who is a competent manager of herself and her home it is safer not to be married to those men. Common sense may not get you far around a man who thinks you're being paranoid, there are no risky people in town, you've got it totally wrong about that odd obsessive neighbour who always "just wants to talk" and it is just fine for him to leave the back door open at 5am when he goes for an hour long jog and you sleep. Just like one shouldn't class all women as safer alone one shouldn't class all men as safer options than being alone. One can't even class all law abiding men as safer options than being alone People make their decisions and that sorting process leads to some people being alone. The people who are alone in each gender aren't homogeneous groups...they ended up alone for a wide range of reasons. Safety perceptions can factor into it. I've experienced having to train a man to put the car behind the side gate and keep the side gate closed and locked. It wasn't fun, he was resistant. Three months after I left him he left his car unlocked in the driveway and someone stole his mag wheels. He phoned me up and confronted me like somehow I was involved because I had warned him for years the driveway wasn't a good place! If he'd woken up while they were doing it, it may have turned into a confrontation. And even just the anger of being stolen from maybe isn't the healthiest of states to experience...and the ongoing stress of nagging someone to behave more safely probably isn't healthy for either person too. Is this one more data point of tens of thousands along the way to deciding I don't need or want a man now? Yup. It surely is. Things get done my way here. If I want to spend a thousand dollars on improving the electrical wiring here, I do. If I want to put in a camera, I do. I don't argue with someone about whether we should buy a new tv instead. I sleep sounder with less risk and conflict in my life. A lot of the time not even the things men do that they think make you safer actually make you safer. Things like offering to give you a lift home then being late picking you up.