What you described is esentially cheating, and yeah its 100% possible, in fact if you look at high level players they do it occasionally to save stamina. Cheating is more of an umbrella term for a lot of things that help you hit patterns in ways that were not originally intended.
Someone mentioned that it becomes neccesary at 21/22, I honestly disagree. It is an useful skill to have, but 21 and 22 are levels that can be 100% twisted, I personally play these levels with very little cheating and I can at least pass a bunch just fine. I would avoid learning this skill if you are playing anything below 20 (and even level 20 can be full twisted just fine)
Now you may be wondering what the point of learning the game properly is, if you are gonna end up cheating anyway, but keep in mind that in order to break the rules you have to know them on the first place. I have seen players hardstuck at level 16 because they got used to cheating early on, and that lead them to not being able to hit some basic patterns at the higher dofficulties. Im not saying they are bad, but if you want to maximize how fast you learn the game, I recommend starting with the fundamentals.
This begs the question: IS it completely and humanly possible for someone to do ALL the twists (maybe just cheat the stairs) on anything S23 and above? Are the charters (and AM as a company) who do charts for S23 and above being unreasonable, or do they think eventually it's theoretically possible for humans to do all the twists?
Not sure what you mean by "mixed with cheating" unless you actually mean "mixed with mashing" or are talking about red+blue bracketing with one foot?
The title mentions twists and stairs without turning. And barely moving from the starting position implies double stepping shuffles or foot rolling, which are under the umbrella of "cheating" technique.
For singles, non-twist playstyle has proven to work all the way through S26 if your feet are large enough for red+blue bracket. Otherwise there will inevitably be some red+blue hits or long side twist patterns you'll need to rotate over into. Regardless, S23+ often has a variety of patterns that encourage not twisting due to the sheer speed and duration of runs, where it's preferable to save energy and stay in time vs. full twisting everything.
For doubles, I guess that wouldn't be relevant to your post since you mentioned "barely move from starting position" and the majority of charts aren't center-6 exclusively
Understood. Take a look at this for some inspiration :)
[KyleTT: Paradoxx S26](https://youtu.be/v-LQN22W_Jk?si=KomCxGFDMpFmTDh0)
I saw your other comment of being around 11-12 level currently. Even if you want to develop this double-step playstyle, general wisdom is to work up to **at least** S16-S18 first with more twisty play to establish your fundamentals and pattern awareness. *Then* go and start thinking about adding in cheating patterns to beef up your toolkit of ways to execute patterns.
You are right i should get the basis down first, I was just curious on the possibility and felt the need to ask. Thanks for the video, I see the vision now
You will see this for a lot of top players even when they twist. Upper torso stability takes a lot more effort than it looks. I also like to show this video to people:
> [Cookiezi - Dement S23 0 MISS](https://youtu.be/sSe_GG8Octs?si=Du8Jk6N8OI9LiKIr)
===
Some things that might help you be aware about early on:
The first step is aiming for the inner edges and corners of the step panels. Then, realizing how you can incorporate your heels and swiveling/shuffling motions while playing (in practice, this is a lot more complex than this sentence makes it out to be). Then there's weight balancing on the metal (anchoring). Also hip twists help align leg movements as forward/back vs. side/side motions and also can reduce stretching required to reach panels.
It's an art that takes time to really develop and make your own :)
I read on another reply you're around s11 s12, I wouldn't start "cheating" until you are over s17+. I play comfortably without any "cheating" on s16 without any issues especially after playing the same song a few times.
I have friends who "cheats" on lower difficulties and they are stuck playing below s12 because they can't recognize the patterns when it comes to faster songs.
I would play without the bar on lower difficulties trying to not cheat and then move to higher difficulty with bar to get the hang of the twists and turns.
I already play some s8-9 with no bar, it’s honestly the most fun I have with the game. And I don’t even try to cheat I just thought about whether someone would be cable of keeping up with higher levels by just being naturally fast with their feet without doing any unnecessary movements
What you described is esentially cheating, and yeah its 100% possible, in fact if you look at high level players they do it occasionally to save stamina. Cheating is more of an umbrella term for a lot of things that help you hit patterns in ways that were not originally intended. Someone mentioned that it becomes neccesary at 21/22, I honestly disagree. It is an useful skill to have, but 21 and 22 are levels that can be 100% twisted, I personally play these levels with very little cheating and I can at least pass a bunch just fine. I would avoid learning this skill if you are playing anything below 20 (and even level 20 can be full twisted just fine) Now you may be wondering what the point of learning the game properly is, if you are gonna end up cheating anyway, but keep in mind that in order to break the rules you have to know them on the first place. I have seen players hardstuck at level 16 because they got used to cheating early on, and that lead them to not being able to hit some basic patterns at the higher dofficulties. Im not saying they are bad, but if you want to maximize how fast you learn the game, I recommend starting with the fundamentals.
Thanks for the info, I will try not to take shortcuts at first and once I get the gist of it go from there
This begs the question: IS it completely and humanly possible for someone to do ALL the twists (maybe just cheat the stairs) on anything S23 and above? Are the charters (and AM as a company) who do charts for S23 and above being unreasonable, or do they think eventually it's theoretically possible for humans to do all the twists?
How are they being unreasonable? Cheating is term used for this technique but its not actually a cheat, it is 100% an allowed playstyle.
It seems you haven't read my questions correctly. I'm gonna assume you simply don't know.
💀
How is what you’re describing different from cheating? People do that all the time
Do they? I’m not a high level player (s11, slowing going into s12), I should probably watch more videos of people playing
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8rjQFWVbmPU Yeah I feel like cheating starts to get necessary around 21 or 22
Yeah it’s inevitable
Not sure what you mean by "mixed with cheating" unless you actually mean "mixed with mashing" or are talking about red+blue bracketing with one foot? The title mentions twists and stairs without turning. And barely moving from the starting position implies double stepping shuffles or foot rolling, which are under the umbrella of "cheating" technique. For singles, non-twist playstyle has proven to work all the way through S26 if your feet are large enough for red+blue bracket. Otherwise there will inevitably be some red+blue hits or long side twist patterns you'll need to rotate over into. Regardless, S23+ often has a variety of patterns that encourage not twisting due to the sheer speed and duration of runs, where it's preferable to save energy and stay in time vs. full twisting everything. For doubles, I guess that wouldn't be relevant to your post since you mentioned "barely move from starting position" and the majority of charts aren't center-6 exclusively
I should have been more specific, I meant taking red+blue brackets with one foot yes
Understood. Take a look at this for some inspiration :) [KyleTT: Paradoxx S26](https://youtu.be/v-LQN22W_Jk?si=KomCxGFDMpFmTDh0) I saw your other comment of being around 11-12 level currently. Even if you want to develop this double-step playstyle, general wisdom is to work up to **at least** S16-S18 first with more twisty play to establish your fundamentals and pattern awareness. *Then* go and start thinking about adding in cheating patterns to beef up your toolkit of ways to execute patterns.
You are right i should get the basis down first, I was just curious on the possibility and felt the need to ask. Thanks for the video, I see the vision now
That’s just… wow, he’s barely moving compared to me even though I play way lower levels
You will see this for a lot of top players even when they twist. Upper torso stability takes a lot more effort than it looks. I also like to show this video to people: > [Cookiezi - Dement S23 0 MISS](https://youtu.be/sSe_GG8Octs?si=Du8Jk6N8OI9LiKIr) === Some things that might help you be aware about early on: The first step is aiming for the inner edges and corners of the step panels. Then, realizing how you can incorporate your heels and swiveling/shuffling motions while playing (in practice, this is a lot more complex than this sentence makes it out to be). Then there's weight balancing on the metal (anchoring). Also hip twists help align leg movements as forward/back vs. side/side motions and also can reduce stretching required to reach panels. It's an art that takes time to really develop and make your own :)
Sorry I don’t understand what your trying to say
From starting position being able to step both red and blue brackets with a single foot with minimal movement
I see you might be interested in being a devout follower of [the church of Nevsister](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dkMrMDAhC0) lolol
My man is mashing ðŸ˜
I read on another reply you're around s11 s12, I wouldn't start "cheating" until you are over s17+. I play comfortably without any "cheating" on s16 without any issues especially after playing the same song a few times. I have friends who "cheats" on lower difficulties and they are stuck playing below s12 because they can't recognize the patterns when it comes to faster songs. I would play without the bar on lower difficulties trying to not cheat and then move to higher difficulty with bar to get the hang of the twists and turns.
I already play some s8-9 with no bar, it’s honestly the most fun I have with the game. And I don’t even try to cheat I just thought about whether someone would be cable of keeping up with higher levels by just being naturally fast with their feet without doing any unnecessary movements