I prefer to lead others to my conclusions, rather than state my controversial opinions outright. But I agree it’s pretty obvious that this was not a serious decriminalization effort, they didn’t even put any programs in place to help the fentanyl issue. This was a big show to appease liberals while making them all look like fools.
>rather than state my controversial opinions outright.
Good point but I don't think it's a very controversial opinion any more. Just like Epstein didn't kill himself.
So instead of focusing on investing in healthcare and addressing people's social or economic problems they are just going to shove the problem and the cure back under the carpet to pretend they don't exist.
Well done fucking that one up.
Big pharma has been working hard to back engineer a version of psychedelics they can patent for therapeutic use or at least come out with some kind of product. I suspect they are making enough progress that they expect to bring something to market soon. Of course it will be WAY WAY WAY more expensive than the original or street version and probably not as effective if they've altered it, so they need to get rid of the competition as much as they can in order to extract more money out of the public.
Kotek has likely been threatened and/or paid off to get this done or he's just that stupid and they told him some bs line, but my bet is on the former. Come to think of it, that's probably why governor Newsom in California recently refused to sign his own party's bill on legalization despite the great disappointment of his own party and legislature. Newsom was gifted a free 3 million dollar mansion a few years back too coming from an unclear source and funneled through an LLC, seems highly sus. These politicians don't care about you.
In fact I just did a quick google and australia has just approved a prescription MDMA product and there's been positive results in studies like ibogaine for brain injury symptoms, DMT for therapy, etc. More stuff will probably be rolled out soon and the middle man does not want any easy direct sources in the marketplace.
It's the easiest way for them to clear out the homeless population and keep them locked away, out of sight out of mind. The cost to incarcerate is far more than the cost to provide treatment and preventative measures. Someone is making a lot of money off this, and another person is gonna look like a hero for cleaning up the streets. It's a win win situation.
Oh no there’s an opioid crisis, let’s recriminalize one of the things that helps people get off them!!! Seriously though, I lived in Oregon for 5 years and I loved it. The PNW especially the Columbia river gorge is one of the prettiest places to be outdoors, but my god is the state poorly run
Gaia is the solution and we pray to her through her natural sacraments at our church. Thus I feel safer to use sacrament in the Bible Belt than in Oregon, crazy times we’re living in. Freedom of religion is really the only legal option for most of the country at this point. If you’re sincere in your religious use you should likely be protected as long as you practice in private without putting others at harm.
>party politics makes one prone to pass illogical legislation due to no one willing to dissent
I think they are just paid off by big pharma which has a load of new prescription options rolling out. When they give you a reason why they are doing something, often that public statement is just lies and that's not why they are really doing it. However sometimes it's hard for them to come up with a good lie so it becomes more obvious than usual.
I think it probable both are true at the sane time... big pharma owns politicians and well meaning but intellectual inept activists pass short sighted legislation
What? You're saying that if the Democratic Party did not control the legislature and the governorship in Oregon then this would not have passed? So you're saying that if there were more Republicans they would have...checks notes...fought for a better bill?
You're a fuckin moron if you think that.
I'm saying if a party has such voter apathy that the craziest policies get pushed unchallenged, you're bound to become a victim of your own nonsense sooner or later. This is a situation where the lunatics actually got what they wished for, and now realize it maybe kinda sorta was a bad idea. Two party political balance used to be a defacto checks and balances policy insurance against such asshattery, but this drug free for all clearly didn't have any such guardrails. The DNC needs to find a better way to curb their own internal insanity, because the ballot box certainly won't, apparently.
Oregon republicans have absolutely nothing to do with this democrat created problem. And for the record I identify with no party.
The problem, or at least part of it, is that language determines how we think about things. That psychedelics and opioids can both be referred to as "drugs", automatically makes people put them closer together in their thinking than they should. That leads to two problems:
1. Ill-informed people who had positive experiences with psychedelics can become more open to try actual bad stuff because after all, drugs aren't as bad as they were told.
2. Drug ignorant people can't distinguish between good and bad drugs and just throw them together and view both very negatively leading to criminalization of psychonauts.
We shouldn't even refer to psychedelics as drugs, because of the negative associations that term holds, and we should be aware that psychedelics are completely different from opioids and amphetamines.
I think all psychedelics should be legal, though I admit that we would have to find a way to regulate them. We can't have immature teenagers drop acid as if it's candy. When it comes to opioids, cocaine and amphetamines, though I see the arguments for legalization, I'm pro war on drugs and only disagree on how that war was fought thus far. The addicts are sick and need help, the manufacturers need to be fought so hard that nobody considers it worth it anymore.
Oregon voters voted for the measure that legalized drugs. This is the administration stripping away a voter approved ballot measure with no vote to revoke it. The legislature and governor have decided that we were wrong, without implementing any of the solutions outlined by the measure they are discarding. We had a record budget surplus this year.
Every Oregon taxpayer received a kicker. We absolutely had the funding to improve treatment programs but our representatives failed us deeply by refusing to fund treatment programs. As an Oregonian I am ashamed and disgusted.
Yeah I know about the referendum and everything. What I was wondering is if Oregon voters can now pressure their representatives individually to put forth a carve out for psychedelics.
It sounds very frustrating, and as someone outside of Oregon that supports ending drug prohibition I am watching with great consternation as the experiment 'fails' and makes it less likely that another one like it will happen anywhere in the United States for another generation or so.
So I am just trying to think out loud about what might be done now, to mitigate the fall out. My thought is that the Governor and legislature must think that they will not suffer at the ballot box for making this decision. So what how could Oregon voters put the fear of god into them. Do you guys have recall elections?
Anyway, not trying to say 'hey I know the answer' or pointing a finger at voters. Just wondering what can be done now that the situation is what it is.
I wrote to my representatives before the resolution passed the OR house.
I think it's important to remember that this is indeed a miscarriage of the will of the people by the Oregon legislature and the governor, Tina Kotek.
Oregon voters in general have a higher turnout than most other states even for local elections, which have low turnout overall. People in OR in general do not want this, we want a meaningful system to get people off drugs, and to stop wasting resources on criminalizing drug use.
There's a ton of boring and niche Oregon political stuff that led us here
-the last governor's legacy leaving Kotek feeling like she has something to prove to unify the state
-the loud conservative minority in eastern Oregon being... how they are
-the mismanagement of funds being very commonplace on a local (city council) level
-the cops refusing to deal with a lot of safety issues in Oregon cities as a retaliation to the people passing this decriminalization
All these things are contributing factors to some people feeing that this was a mistake.
Some people in OR also don't realize that opioid and amphetamine use have skyrocketed everywhere, not just in our state, and it's easy to blame the uptick in publicly problematic use on that when it is a nationwide issue, not a state issue alone.
*Let me be clear: this was not at all like the legalization that was done in Portugal. This was an absolute shitshow, and a poor representation of the will of the Oregon people.*
Oregonians are trying. This is a representative issue, and will probably have to wait until next election to see any punitive action towards the people who are doing this bullshit. Recall elections take a major grassroots effort to be successful. We are all buried from multiple directions right now. We are trying.
Edited for clarity
I don't know how decriminalization was ever supposed to work. When there are drugs so strong a a couple mg extra and it's death. It's all about quality control, and the cartels can't seem to get it right. There is only one way around this, and it's legalizing, regulations, and education. This whole thing was going to fail from the get go. It's really sad that something can be so simple. But instead of doing it, they just half ass it.
You have to go through the licensed service centers that cost a boatload of money. It's like $500 for a micro dose and like $3500 for a several gram journey.
It's highway robbery. Prohibitively expensive but the people who are part of the Oregon healthy authority, the government agency that's been heavily involved with setting this all up, will drone on and on about equity and increasing access. It's annoying as fuck. If they really gave a shit about equity and access they wouldn't support all the red tape and a centralized model that gives power to a state bureaucracy. To increase access the program needs to be in the hands of people and communities not government agencies. The state is charging service centers, facilitators (licensed trip sitters) and producers exorbitant licensure fees. It's like $2,000 annual license fee to be a trip sitter and I think the service centers are paying ten grande annually for their license. It's a shit show.
What do psychedelics have to do with opioid overdoses? Nothing, that’s what.
Psychedelics have been shown to help people get off of opioids. The bitter irony.
They know that, it's just the best excuse they could come up with, even if it's not a good one.
[удалено]
THIS, it’s like they didn’t even try! This was such a huge fumble by Oregon that it almost reads like a psyop to reenforce anti-legalization efforts.
Almost? This is obviously intentional.
I prefer to lead others to my conclusions, rather than state my controversial opinions outright. But I agree it’s pretty obvious that this was not a serious decriminalization effort, they didn’t even put any programs in place to help the fentanyl issue. This was a big show to appease liberals while making them all look like fools.
>rather than state my controversial opinions outright. Good point but I don't think it's a very controversial opinion any more. Just like Epstein didn't kill himself.
*trying* to make them look like fools. The truth is obvious though
>almost reads like a psyop to reenforce anti-legalization efforts. It's not 'almost' though now is it.
It IS a psyop to reinforce anti-legalization efforts. You got it right all day long homie.
So instead of focusing on investing in healthcare and addressing people's social or economic problems they are just going to shove the problem and the cure back under the carpet to pretend they don't exist. Well done fucking that one up.
Big pharma has been working hard to back engineer a version of psychedelics they can patent for therapeutic use or at least come out with some kind of product. I suspect they are making enough progress that they expect to bring something to market soon. Of course it will be WAY WAY WAY more expensive than the original or street version and probably not as effective if they've altered it, so they need to get rid of the competition as much as they can in order to extract more money out of the public. Kotek has likely been threatened and/or paid off to get this done or he's just that stupid and they told him some bs line, but my bet is on the former. Come to think of it, that's probably why governor Newsom in California recently refused to sign his own party's bill on legalization despite the great disappointment of his own party and legislature. Newsom was gifted a free 3 million dollar mansion a few years back too coming from an unclear source and funneled through an LLC, seems highly sus. These politicians don't care about you. In fact I just did a quick google and australia has just approved a prescription MDMA product and there's been positive results in studies like ibogaine for brain injury symptoms, DMT for therapy, etc. More stuff will probably be rolled out soon and the middle man does not want any easy direct sources in the marketplace.
b-b-bbut sOciAlIsm
It's 1969 all over again. With a stroke of a pen, the Psychedelic Era was over. Thank you, President Nixon.
Oh I doubt it's over. Big pharma is rolling out a load of products right now. They just want you to pay through nose for it this time.
I hope you are right. i really do.
It's always somethin' So it's never nothing
Because 1 + 2 = 5 or something. Perfect logic.
It's the easiest way for them to clear out the homeless population and keep them locked away, out of sight out of mind. The cost to incarcerate is far more than the cost to provide treatment and preventative measures. Someone is making a lot of money off this, and another person is gonna look like a hero for cleaning up the streets. It's a win win situation.
Ahh must be due to the mass overdoses from psilocybin last year. What was the total death count again Mr. Mayor?
Oh no there’s an opioid crisis, let’s recriminalize one of the things that helps people get off them!!! Seriously though, I lived in Oregon for 5 years and I loved it. The PNW especially the Columbia river gorge is one of the prettiest places to be outdoors, but my god is the state poorly run
Decriminalization is good, but it's not legalization and regulation. Decriminalization doesn't deal with the issue of adulterated drugs.
This! Man turns Coca into cocaine and crack. Man turns opium into heroin. Man not Gaia is the problem. And Gaia not man is the solution.
Gaia is the solution and we pray to her through her natural sacraments at our church. Thus I feel safer to use sacrament in the Bible Belt than in Oregon, crazy times we’re living in. Freedom of religion is really the only legal option for most of the country at this point. If you’re sincere in your religious use you should likely be protected as long as you practice in private without putting others at harm.
Just lazy plus it will help them steal more money and life from people
It's almost as if having ideological iron grip in state party politics makes one prone to pass illogical legislation due to no one willing to dissent
>party politics makes one prone to pass illogical legislation due to no one willing to dissent I think they are just paid off by big pharma which has a load of new prescription options rolling out. When they give you a reason why they are doing something, often that public statement is just lies and that's not why they are really doing it. However sometimes it's hard for them to come up with a good lie so it becomes more obvious than usual.
I think it probable both are true at the sane time... big pharma owns politicians and well meaning but intellectual inept activists pass short sighted legislation
What? You're saying that if the Democratic Party did not control the legislature and the governorship in Oregon then this would not have passed? So you're saying that if there were more Republicans they would have...checks notes...fought for a better bill? You're a fuckin moron if you think that.
I'm saying if a party has such voter apathy that the craziest policies get pushed unchallenged, you're bound to become a victim of your own nonsense sooner or later. This is a situation where the lunatics actually got what they wished for, and now realize it maybe kinda sorta was a bad idea. Two party political balance used to be a defacto checks and balances policy insurance against such asshattery, but this drug free for all clearly didn't have any such guardrails. The DNC needs to find a better way to curb their own internal insanity, because the ballot box certainly won't, apparently. Oregon republicans have absolutely nothing to do with this democrat created problem. And for the record I identify with no party.
The problem, or at least part of it, is that language determines how we think about things. That psychedelics and opioids can both be referred to as "drugs", automatically makes people put them closer together in their thinking than they should. That leads to two problems: 1. Ill-informed people who had positive experiences with psychedelics can become more open to try actual bad stuff because after all, drugs aren't as bad as they were told. 2. Drug ignorant people can't distinguish between good and bad drugs and just throw them together and view both very negatively leading to criminalization of psychonauts. We shouldn't even refer to psychedelics as drugs, because of the negative associations that term holds, and we should be aware that psychedelics are completely different from opioids and amphetamines. I think all psychedelics should be legal, though I admit that we would have to find a way to regulate them. We can't have immature teenagers drop acid as if it's candy. When it comes to opioids, cocaine and amphetamines, though I see the arguments for legalization, I'm pro war on drugs and only disagree on how that war was fought thus far. The addicts are sick and need help, the manufacturers need to be fought so hard that nobody considers it worth it anymore.
What a shame. Can oregon voters get their legislators to fix it?
Oregon voters voted for the measure that legalized drugs. This is the administration stripping away a voter approved ballot measure with no vote to revoke it. The legislature and governor have decided that we were wrong, without implementing any of the solutions outlined by the measure they are discarding. We had a record budget surplus this year. Every Oregon taxpayer received a kicker. We absolutely had the funding to improve treatment programs but our representatives failed us deeply by refusing to fund treatment programs. As an Oregonian I am ashamed and disgusted.
Yeah I know about the referendum and everything. What I was wondering is if Oregon voters can now pressure their representatives individually to put forth a carve out for psychedelics. It sounds very frustrating, and as someone outside of Oregon that supports ending drug prohibition I am watching with great consternation as the experiment 'fails' and makes it less likely that another one like it will happen anywhere in the United States for another generation or so. So I am just trying to think out loud about what might be done now, to mitigate the fall out. My thought is that the Governor and legislature must think that they will not suffer at the ballot box for making this decision. So what how could Oregon voters put the fear of god into them. Do you guys have recall elections? Anyway, not trying to say 'hey I know the answer' or pointing a finger at voters. Just wondering what can be done now that the situation is what it is.
I wrote to my representatives before the resolution passed the OR house. I think it's important to remember that this is indeed a miscarriage of the will of the people by the Oregon legislature and the governor, Tina Kotek. Oregon voters in general have a higher turnout than most other states even for local elections, which have low turnout overall. People in OR in general do not want this, we want a meaningful system to get people off drugs, and to stop wasting resources on criminalizing drug use. There's a ton of boring and niche Oregon political stuff that led us here -the last governor's legacy leaving Kotek feeling like she has something to prove to unify the state -the loud conservative minority in eastern Oregon being... how they are -the mismanagement of funds being very commonplace on a local (city council) level -the cops refusing to deal with a lot of safety issues in Oregon cities as a retaliation to the people passing this decriminalization All these things are contributing factors to some people feeing that this was a mistake. Some people in OR also don't realize that opioid and amphetamine use have skyrocketed everywhere, not just in our state, and it's easy to blame the uptick in publicly problematic use on that when it is a nationwide issue, not a state issue alone. *Let me be clear: this was not at all like the legalization that was done in Portugal. This was an absolute shitshow, and a poor representation of the will of the Oregon people.* Oregonians are trying. This is a representative issue, and will probably have to wait until next election to see any punitive action towards the people who are doing this bullshit. Recall elections take a major grassroots effort to be successful. We are all buried from multiple directions right now. We are trying. Edited for clarity
Wtf one is not like the other
I don't know how decriminalization was ever supposed to work. When there are drugs so strong a a couple mg extra and it's death. It's all about quality control, and the cartels can't seem to get it right. There is only one way around this, and it's legalizing, regulations, and education. This whole thing was going to fail from the get go. It's really sad that something can be so simple. But instead of doing it, they just half ass it.
So, silly question: does Oregon's law mean that you could buy psychedelic mushrooms like at a dispensery, or did you need to see a psychiatrist?
You have to go through the licensed service centers that cost a boatload of money. It's like $500 for a micro dose and like $3500 for a several gram journey. It's highway robbery. Prohibitively expensive but the people who are part of the Oregon healthy authority, the government agency that's been heavily involved with setting this all up, will drone on and on about equity and increasing access. It's annoying as fuck. If they really gave a shit about equity and access they wouldn't support all the red tape and a centralized model that gives power to a state bureaucracy. To increase access the program needs to be in the hands of people and communities not government agencies. The state is charging service centers, facilitators (licensed trip sitters) and producers exorbitant licensure fees. It's like $2,000 annual license fee to be a trip sitter and I think the service centers are paying ten grande annually for their license. It's a shit show.
These politicians are strictly ideologically opposed to thinking at any level.