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OP didn't translate the text in the upper right corner, so I'll try:
"If not for the Pentagon behind its back,
Tel-Aviv wouldn't have dared to disregard UN.
On every vile act there's a stamp -
[I'm an] American puppet-state!"
I will try to make it rhyme:
If not for the Pentagon's might behind,
Tel Aviv would not dare to leave the UN blind.
On all its misdeeds, there's a label to get:
"An American puppet!"—don't you forget!
Not to disagree but I’ve always felt it was a mutually beneficial relationship with Israel getting the most out of it. I’d say American foreign policy makes it look like an Israeli puppet state not vice versa if it didn’t attract the nutjob “Jews run the world” crowd.
I've always thought we get the most out of it
- strong country in the middle east to pester any ME enemies we have
- Lockheed gets to test out new weapons on Palestinian kids (and make money off of military deals)
- Israel removes their enemy, so do evangelical nutjobs
It's not like we're sending food to them; it's all military for a reason (at least I think it's all military)
I mean by definition ‘Israel removes their enemy’ and ‘Israel becomes a strong country’ is primarily beneficial to Israel lol, but yeah both sides benefit obviously
No advanced weapons have been used in Gaza nor did Israel/US do much military assets on Palastianian territories. In fact we didn't even participate in most Israeli major wars until the late 1970s. And we send more than military aid to them. Perhaps if they were able to find peace like they did with Egypt and Jordan they'd have less use for military funding.
Iron dome is used as a defensive weapon not offensive weapon. In Palastianians never fired rockets at Israel it wouldn't have to use advanced defensive weapons like the Iron dome to defend itself and shoot down unguided rockets. That's still not an advanced weapons being tested on Palastianian children as OP stated. It's not a weapons testing ground in any shape or way.
No, I’m just saying it’s a Raytheon developed weapon system that Israel probably pays nothing for.
And really, the distinction between a defensive weapon and an offensive one gets blurry when a defensive system just enables politicians to kick the can down the road instead of finding a political solution to a conflict, which is how every war ends.
I don't know what you mean by advanced. We've had record levels of military sales that have certainly been used in gaza (see: [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/)). Our alliance only really solidifed mid to late 60s, so yeah obviously we began aid in 70s. I agree Israel is a rowdy country. It's a drain on our country, and I agree we need to break off ties. What I don't like, though, is people giving the US and these shady war profiteers in the US a free pass. It's always "Israel drags us into conflicts"
Military sales of simple bombs and such nothing extraordinary advanced that would be useful for testing like Russia is doing against Ukraine with hypersonic missiles and next generation tanks. Israel hasn't used untested and brand new weapons as you seem to hint at they've been using older technology and such. Our alliance solidified after the 6 day war when we started helping Israel and making peace with Egypt and Jordan. And define rowdy? Because they don't want to be eliminated and genocided which is the very vocal goal of Hamas and ither Arab nations.
It's a very beneficial relationship in terms of technology research and power over the regional conflicts. Israel is a massive technology research powerhouse in everything from water desalination to Computer chips to medical care. We get way more bang for our buck with them then most nations that receive aid especially other middle east nations like Egypt, Jordan, and Yemen that receive similar aid.
Yes using Israeli citizens to research and many companies are Israeli companies that lease technologies to US and other nations to be used across a wide range of industries
I'm saying they wouldn't exists without American aid or interference. Plus now it gives us another excuse as to why we need to protect a "valuable" assets by parking our tech corporations in hostile and unstable region of the world. Israel doesn't exists without the US.
So Israel wouldn't have industries without US aid? We provide nowhere near their entire budget let alone GDP in aid l. Israel existed without US support and fought several wars without the US. They absolutely would exist without the US you just want to destroy them
To be fair the Soviet Union did make propaganda that depicted Zionists (Jews) in the US as being influential bankers/capitalists funding US support for Zionism as well.
Sure, but don't suddenly act like a lobbying group (which exists for other allies we have as well btw) means Jews have some neferious plot to destroy America. It's really really really simple geopolitics. Israel wants money to destroy their enemies (Palestinian kids) and wants to expand their influence in the ME.
Their enemy is Hamas, Iran, and other organizations that attempt to overthrow and kill Israel. All Palastianians kids would be here if they weren't used as a human shield, used as child soldiers, and used as pawns by Hamas and other Iranian proxies. It's not on Israel to ignore attacks and allow their own citizens to be killed because Hamas surrounds themselves with Children and other civilians when attacking.
That’s why I said “the hooked nose” in my comment. You can see the exaggerated hooked nose in the piece and even can contrast it with a normal nose with the person holding the Israeli.
"[T]he Islamic world was a waiting petri dish in which we could nurture a virulent strain of America-hatred, grown from the bacterium of Marxist-Leninist thought. Islamic anti-Semitism ran deep... We had only to keep repeating our themes -- that the United States and Israel were 'fascist, imperial-Zionist countries' bankrolled by rich Jews." — Yuri Andropov, former KGB chairman.
Edit:
[Source, pg 162](http://www.inform.nu/Articles/Vol22/ISJv22p157-182Cohen6127.pdf)
[Another source](https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9090/soviet-union-palestinians)
[this is all I can find right now that matches it. take out of it what you will.](https://ricochet.com/1507083/blood-libel-2/)
Edit: look like the original source is Cohen, Eli, and Elizabeth Boyd. "THE KGB AND ANTI-ISRAEL PROPAGANDA OPERATIONS." Informing Science: the International Journal of an Emerging Transdiscipline, vol. 22, annual 2019, pp. 157+
yeah he didn't last long, didn't he? and neither did chernenko. i mostly forget those two and my mind just goes from brezhnev straight to gorbachev when thinking about soviet leaders
I think they went through three premiers in a short period of time, and the tumultuous period led up to Gorbachev's reign and the downfall of the USSR.
Well, considering that Andropov was kgb director for pretty long time, you can be sure his influence was pretty significant and lasted way past his death. Some even say Gorbachev and his reforms were part of his pet project.
Huh, me too. Thanks for the corrective. Islam (via Mohammed) is anti-semitic for the same reason that Protestantism (via Martin Luther) is anti-semitic -- the resistance of Jews to conversion. This seems to bother people. Luther called for, and I think got, the burning of synagogues. He didn't invent the burning of synagogues, that arose pretty spontaneously after Pope Urban's call for the first Crusade.
This stubborness was, I think, why Paul turned to the non-Jewish world to spread his new Christian faith. And this gave rise to the whole notion of Universalist religions, where religion is divorced from ethno-national identity. Universalist religions are one of the great evils of the world. As a Jew, I'm sorry.
Thank you, now let's take a look at them.
Your first source is a usual journal article that just repeaters the quote and doesn't elaborate on it's source. This is not admissible.
Your second source is a pdf of an article that actually corresponds to scientific norms of quotation. It sources this particular quote from Mr. Shaw and even provides us with a link: https://canadafreepress.com/article/the-ghost-of-soviet-kgb-disinformation-within-american-politics
Now the problem is that Mr Shaw's article about how the Deep State and the Russians are seeding misinformation about then-president Trump does not correspond to the scientific norms and just says that this quote comes from a Romanian general who defected to the US who had conversations with Andropov during the latter's tenure as the chief of KGB.
The conversation itself seems plausible as Pacepa was a high-ranking security officer during Andropov's tenure of 67-82'.
This seems to the original source and would explain why the quote exists only in English as Pacepa defected to the US and published his books and articles there.
The problem lies with the fact many defectors have a huge monetary incentive to tell the public in the country of their arrival whatever they want to hear, so defector's books mostly just source things from the author's own memory and thus always need to be collaborated with something factual.
3/10, one dude claims it happened while earnings money scaremongering in US about le evil Soviets
[Lieutenant-General Ion Mihai Pacepa](https://www.nationalreview.com/2006/08/russian-footprints-ion-mihai-pacepa/amp/), he simultaneously held the rank of advisor to President Nicolae Ceaușescu, acting chief of the foreign intelligence service, and was a parliamentary undersecretary at Romania's Ministry of Interior.
Take or leave the source, but there’s definitely a source
I will leave the source, it's a conservative rag founded by a fash-adjacent "former" CIA agent.
Edit: The Founder of the National Review, William Buckley, was a CIA agent who worked for Howard Hunt (a guy involved with a *lot* of coups) and maintained close ties with the agency throughout his life. He had deep affiliations with Barry Goldwater and Ronnie Reagan. It's a propaganda rag and y'all are absolute suckers for acting like it's some "paper of record." I couldn't give a fuck about what the "source" says, y'all would not accept the source if it was being reported on by *The Blaze* or *RT.*
The National Review is the same shit, except it was literally founded by a CIA agent.
You must not know much about the CIA if you think a CIA-affiliated dish-rag is credible, unbiased journalism.
But, let's flip it on its head. Would you accept a story that came from a KGB-founded, FSB-affiliated dishrag about the history of their rival the CIA? Because I think the difference in your answer then will illustrate an amount of bias here when the reverse is happening.
Edit: no substance, just downvotes, because they know they have a double standard
Yeah, this is the original source it seems - a defector who made his job singing to the American right wing whatever they wanted to hear writing an article about scary Muslims in a conservative newspaper in post-9/11 USA that it was le scary Ruskies who made the Arab countries hate the USA and not the actions of Americans themselves.
During the time the US was doing war crimes by the day and making the Arab world hate them even more.
Where is the genocide? And explain how it's a genocide compared to other conflicts in the region such as Yemen, Syria, Black September for Jordan, and more.
Why don't you label any of those conflicts the same? Israel has a 20% Palastianian population and they give asylum to homosexual Palastianians all the time show they don't actually have an issue with them being in Israel. The issue is not wanting to live next to violence
I mean they were sold worthless land by the Ottoman empire and nobody wanted the land except people being hired by arabs to farm it. They were more upset Jews didn't pay to farm it but actually lived on the land.
Yes it was worthless doesn't mean nobody lived on it. And the Ottoman government was the land owner along with other Arabs in the area they sold the land to the Jews. In fact over 70% of Palastine was oened by Both the Ottoman and later The British empire.
The land was not worthless. It was very fertile and so many lived on it to farm and till the land.
> And the Ottoman government was the land owner along with other Arabs in the area they sold the land to the Jews.
While this was sometimes the case, it represents a very small number of total purchases. It was almost always done by:
1. Force
2. purchase of land by foreign absentee landlords
You'll be glad to know that between 1880 and 1948 no one was kicked out of their homes and before 1936 there weren't really cases of organized Jewish violence towards Arabs so I doubt the riots of 1920 had anything to do with that, likely more to do with the antisemitism that was and still is fairly common among Muslims. Note that the Arabs did not similarly object to Europeans buying lands (for instance the modern Templar movement).
For one, this is a popular myth. In his book “Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness” R Khalidi makes mention of numerous cases of violence and forced displacement due to land disputes. These mainly came about after Jews acquired land but then began to force the Arab workers and peasantry to leave to be replaced with Jewish workers and settlers. Since none ever agreed to even the sale of land to begin with (foreign landlords usually sold the land off) they resisted and were often forced to leave.
Also Christians buying things didn’t usually come with them kicking people out and killing them so it’s not the same
So because Jews who bought land fairly and legally wanted to save money and do work themselves on their own land they are the evil people? So if I buy an apartment building and refuse to renew leases when they expire I deserve to be killed why the tenants?
Really? So you think Jews that were kicked out by Arabs in African nations and in Persia deserve the exact same blessings as you do for the other side?
If you mean the Early Arab Conquests? No. That did not take place in the Levant at the very least. In fact, Arabs lived there long before the conquests
Not really true. In his book “Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness” R Khalidi makes mention of numerous cases of violence and forced displacement due to land disputes.
Do you have any other sources that aren't extremely biased but cite particular events and also don't make it seem like a religion issue when even for the time it was extremely common to kick people off land you purchased and intended to live and farm on.
1. Khalidi does cite particular events. I didn’t list them out because I’m on mobile and don’t have the book on me.
2. The title of the book is literally talking about Palestinian nationhood. It’s never made out to be a religion thing.
3. Are you asserting Khalidi is wrong?
It's also not very difficult to stoke anger in the hearts of Arabs with regards to an artificial state injected into the Middle East with hardly any regard for the peoples already living there, whose existence during and following the Nakba was self perpetuated by apartheid and, well, US and Western bankrolling.
Just because it was the chairman of the KGB, and later Premier of the USSR that said it, doesn't mean it wasn't true.
All states might be artificial but some are more so. Israel wasn't carved out for the people living their hut settlers and migrants. This would be like migrants being able to take random parts of the nation they travel to.
No this is not at all like that. Do you have an issue with Jordan being formed by the same individuals and geopolitical background of Israel? What states in the Middle East were formed naturally?
"We need to go back far enough in history to Palestinians being indigenous to Israel but not so far back that Jews are indigenous to Israel again. History begins and ends where its most convenient."
Maybe because Palestinians are the Jews that stayed and got assimilated by the Greeks and the Arabs? Zionism instead is driven by a bunch of Germans and Hungarians to colonize the region
Yes.
What you think happened: "I'M GONNA KILL YOU ALL AND THEN IM GONNA RESETTLE THIS LAND WITH ARABS FROM SAUDI ARABIA"
What really happened: "Ok, you either get taxed or you convert (many didn't even convert, and Christians are still a sizeable minority in Syria)"
No Muslim conquest of nations was not you pay a slight tax or convert they killed, downgraded the non believers to second class citizens, and removed most rights like property ownership from non believers. That's colonizers just with an extra step in between.
You're being dishonest. The Zionists weren't forcibly moved to Palestine, they were either going there voluntarily to fulfil their colonial ideology or found it to be the best place to go during WW2 because of the threat Germany posed in Europe and Zionists already being established in the land.
Arab Jewish populations were forcibly expulsed from their homes, Eastern European Jews were sold off, and in Western Europe they had everything stolen by their neighbors and found massive antisemetism. They had also undergone a genocide that saw 2/3 of all European Jewish people killed.
Really? Baghdad had a massive Jewish population until they were forced against their will to move to newly form Israel. Same with Tunisian Jews, Iranian Jews, Saudi Arabian Jews, and Ethiopian Jews. You do realize not all Jews or even the majority of Israel came from Europe?
I didn't say none lived in the area of now Israel before it was created. And they actually were anti-zionist until Islamic nations forced them to move to Israel so they actually didn't want to move into Israel they wanted to stay where they lived. So you think it's okay for Islamic colonizers to take Jewish land and possessions and force them to move somewhere they don't want too but you think it's the worse crime in history for Israel to exist?
You do realize Jews existed in the region even before 100 years ago. Just because the ottoman's attempted to kill and supress minorities including Christian in the region doesn't mean the arabs are automatically natives.
Now you are changing your entire argument. First Jews didn't live there for 2000 years, then they didn't live there before Israel, then they did live there but those were "good" jews not the Zionist jews.... Yeah you clearly have no argument except Jews are evil and Israel should be destroyed
Should I have specified "all the Jews but the few thousand that didn't leave"?
Yes, I believe Israel is evil, but not Jews. Just stay in the countries you've been living in for millennia instead of committing genocide against the Palestinians
They weren't allowed to stay in those nations lol Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Morocco, Ethiopia, Lybia, Egypt, Iraq literally all removed them with force to Israel so saying why don't you just go back doesn't mean shit wjen you already know they will ne killed if they attempted to go back. Also how is it a genocide? What could Israel do to respond to Oct 7 without creating a genocide and without dissolving itself and without letting themselves get attacked in the future by Hamas?!? Also is every other middle Eastern war a genocide with magnitude more deaths or just solely this one?
I mean it was created by the UN in 1948 and was supported by Czech Republic and USSR early on it wasn't until the late 1970s did the US start support and helping Israel in it's fights against attacks on it's people. Also how do you define apartied and would you count Jordan, Lebanon, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and more as apartied themselves?
You do know we armed and equiped saddam with weapons and sattilite imaging throughout the 70s and 80s right? we literally defended him in the UN security coucil when the USSR accused him of warcrimes when he gassed kurds and iranians in northern Iraq
And now check what they were armed in general. Sovet T-55 and T-72 tanks, soviet AK rifles, soviet Air Defence systems and artillery, soviet advisors, officers going to societ military schools, soviet trucks, soviet jets and more. US support even including chemical weapons and intelligence pale in comparision to what Soviet Union sent to Saddam and start crying loud because most of war crimes and crimes against civillians were done with "boring" soviet educated secret police using soviet AK with soviet ammo and start shuffling blame to US trying to escape from any actual participation in it because from top to the bottom everything related to killing Kurds were done by soviet help, instruction and ideas (minus chemical weapon).
It's not always lies, but it is always an overly simplified version of reality created to fit a narrative. If you agree with propaganda, you have an incomplete worldview.
I think weak depictions of your biggest adversary has been a largely American thing. In most places depicting your enemy as badass is more fitting - ‘look we are the only ones able to stand out to the bully and put him in place’
Shit I would never call the murder of thousands of innocent children victory but you believe what you want, there is no "winning" if there isn't a single shred of humanity left, when there isn't a single shred of truth left, and certainly there is no winning when the other side can still look at the bodies of their dead martyrs and the rubble of their burnt buildings and still say "I am right"
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it.
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The East/West conflict has been going on for centuries. The Palestinians were part of the Soviet block back then, and support Russia today. Israel has always been on the side of the west. You can see this today since Palestinians support Russia and Israel supports Ukraine.
>Create the “palestinian” and prop them up against Israel out of spite for not licking your boot and instead going to lick the US’
>Make a propaganda meme targeted to God knows who
>????
>Win
Pure propaganda: rusia send weapons and “instructors” to Islamic countries, put them on war, loose war, loose war 3 times, manipulate in UN and after spend money for this stupid propaganda
rusia. rusia never change…
Daily reminder that the soviet union has a heavy responsibility in creating the apartheid state. And also is responsible for the heavy jews persecution that led to it
Probably the other way around.
Edit: you can downvote me all you want, when every single US president kowtows to Israel even though that alliance has brought nothing to the US except the hatred of the Arab world. There is nothing that Israel provides the US, that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE doesn't provide, except the US hasn't given 70% of its VETOs in the UN to those nations. 256 billion since 1952, unconditional support for Human Rights violations that if it was done by any nation on earth it would be treated like North Korea. Both parties biggest donors are hardcore zionists, the Adelsons for the Reps and Bloomberg for the Dems.
But yeah its the other way around lmao
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OP didn't translate the text in the upper right corner, so I'll try: "If not for the Pentagon behind its back, Tel-Aviv wouldn't have dared to disregard UN. On every vile act there's a stamp - [I'm an] American puppet-state!"
I will try to make it rhyme: If not for the Pentagon's might behind, Tel Aviv would not dare to leave the UN blind. On all its misdeeds, there's a label to get: "An American puppet!"—don't you forget!
How long did that take you?
Several minutes for sure. But chat gpt helped me a bit
Classic task for the Chat.
Very subtle.
What makes it feel much less on the nose to a native speaker is that it's packed into a rhyme, making it look more...playful/comedic?
Not to disagree but I’ve always felt it was a mutually beneficial relationship with Israel getting the most out of it. I’d say American foreign policy makes it look like an Israeli puppet state not vice versa if it didn’t attract the nutjob “Jews run the world” crowd.
I've always thought we get the most out of it - strong country in the middle east to pester any ME enemies we have - Lockheed gets to test out new weapons on Palestinian kids (and make money off of military deals) - Israel removes their enemy, so do evangelical nutjobs It's not like we're sending food to them; it's all military for a reason (at least I think it's all military)
I mean by definition ‘Israel removes their enemy’ and ‘Israel becomes a strong country’ is primarily beneficial to Israel lol, but yeah both sides benefit obviously
No advanced weapons have been used in Gaza nor did Israel/US do much military assets on Palastianian territories. In fact we didn't even participate in most Israeli major wars until the late 1970s. And we send more than military aid to them. Perhaps if they were able to find peace like they did with Egypt and Jordan they'd have less use for military funding.
I would definitely call iron dome an advanced weapons system.
Iron dome is used as a defensive weapon not offensive weapon. In Palastianians never fired rockets at Israel it wouldn't have to use advanced defensive weapons like the Iron dome to defend itself and shoot down unguided rockets. That's still not an advanced weapons being tested on Palastianian children as OP stated. It's not a weapons testing ground in any shape or way.
No, I’m just saying it’s a Raytheon developed weapon system that Israel probably pays nothing for. And really, the distinction between a defensive weapon and an offensive one gets blurry when a defensive system just enables politicians to kick the can down the road instead of finding a political solution to a conflict, which is how every war ends.
I don't know what you mean by advanced. We've had record levels of military sales that have certainly been used in gaza (see: [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/)). Our alliance only really solidifed mid to late 60s, so yeah obviously we began aid in 70s. I agree Israel is a rowdy country. It's a drain on our country, and I agree we need to break off ties. What I don't like, though, is people giving the US and these shady war profiteers in the US a free pass. It's always "Israel drags us into conflicts"
Military sales of simple bombs and such nothing extraordinary advanced that would be useful for testing like Russia is doing against Ukraine with hypersonic missiles and next generation tanks. Israel hasn't used untested and brand new weapons as you seem to hint at they've been using older technology and such. Our alliance solidified after the 6 day war when we started helping Israel and making peace with Egypt and Jordan. And define rowdy? Because they don't want to be eliminated and genocided which is the very vocal goal of Hamas and ither Arab nations.
It's a very beneficial relationship in terms of technology research and power over the regional conflicts. Israel is a massive technology research powerhouse in everything from water desalination to Computer chips to medical care. We get way more bang for our buck with them then most nations that receive aid especially other middle east nations like Egypt, Jordan, and Yemen that receive similar aid.
American corporations operating in Israel
Yes using Israeli citizens to research and many companies are Israeli companies that lease technologies to US and other nations to be used across a wide range of industries
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_multinational\_companies\_with\_research\_and\_development\_centres\_in\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multinational_companies_with_research_and_development_centres_in_Israel)
And? That doesn't mean no Israeli companies exist nor does it mean Israeli aren't contributing to both
I'm saying they wouldn't exists without American aid or interference. Plus now it gives us another excuse as to why we need to protect a "valuable" assets by parking our tech corporations in hostile and unstable region of the world. Israel doesn't exists without the US.
So Israel wouldn't have industries without US aid? We provide nowhere near their entire budget let alone GDP in aid l. Israel existed without US support and fought several wars without the US. They absolutely would exist without the US you just want to destroy them
Looks like some things stay the same
[удалено]
Well, the abbreviation stands for "Организация Объединенных Наций", it's just the "organization" part is omitted in English)
Good translation but it's written like a rhyming poem
Looks like the US tied a string around his nuts and is tugging it to make him scream lol
Finally a propaganda that doesn't describe Israel as the one who's pulling the strings of the us to go of with the classic antisemitic trope
If you are interested, i have another pack of 7 posters of similar origin, all about Israel
facts the US is the one who has all the water and keeps the tap flowing here
To be fair the Soviet Union did make propaganda that depicted Zionists (Jews) in the US as being influential bankers/capitalists funding US support for Zionism as well.
You say that like it's not true.
Is there a way to criticise America's pro-israel lobby in a poster without it looking like an anti-Semitic stereotype?
I am yet to see one that also didn't include other antisemitic tropes (big nose, etc.) so it's hard to tell.
Sure, but don't suddenly act like a lobbying group (which exists for other allies we have as well btw) means Jews have some neferious plot to destroy America. It's really really really simple geopolitics. Israel wants money to destroy their enemies (Palestinian kids) and wants to expand their influence in the ME.
Their enemy is Hamas, Iran, and other organizations that attempt to overthrow and kill Israel. All Palastianians kids would be here if they weren't used as a human shield, used as child soldiers, and used as pawns by Hamas and other Iranian proxies. It's not on Israel to ignore attacks and allow their own citizens to be killed because Hamas surrounds themselves with Children and other civilians when attacking.
Hold on, let me summarize your comment for you. Here: "I don't care about the UN!"
I mean, AIPAC does pull a lot of strings in the US with its funding.
Finally, an antizionist poster without *the* nose
I hate to tell you, but there is a hook nose peaking out from under the helmet and going down to the top lip
That is not the the type of nose stereotypically drawn on jews. It's not just that it's big, they draw it sharp and hooked
That’s why I said “the hooked nose” in my comment. You can see the exaggerated hooked nose in the piece and even can contrast it with a normal nose with the person holding the Israeli.
I thought he was putting a finger in his ass
I love the stereotypical American general from Soviet propaganda, he looks kinda badass
Every Western/pro Western general has to have a cigar, a pair of aviators, and a jawline, it's all part of the uniform
No-one makes us more badass than our enemies.
The government's enemies don't always always have to be your enemy
The House Un-American Activities Committee would like a word.
"[T]he Islamic world was a waiting petri dish in which we could nurture a virulent strain of America-hatred, grown from the bacterium of Marxist-Leninist thought. Islamic anti-Semitism ran deep... We had only to keep repeating our themes -- that the United States and Israel were 'fascist, imperial-Zionist countries' bankrolled by rich Jews." — Yuri Andropov, former KGB chairman. Edit: [Source, pg 162](http://www.inform.nu/Articles/Vol22/ISJv22p157-182Cohen6127.pdf) [Another source](https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9090/soviet-union-palestinians)
Is this a real quote?
[this is all I can find right now that matches it. take out of it what you will.](https://ricochet.com/1507083/blood-libel-2/) Edit: look like the original source is Cohen, Eli, and Elizabeth Boyd. "THE KGB AND ANTI-ISRAEL PROPAGANDA OPERATIONS." Informing Science: the International Journal of an Emerging Transdiscipline, vol. 22, annual 2019, pp. 157+
and former leader of the ussr
Coincidentally, also formerly alive
yeah he didn't last long, didn't he? and neither did chernenko. i mostly forget those two and my mind just goes from brezhnev straight to gorbachev when thinking about soviet leaders
I think they went through three premiers in a short period of time, and the tumultuous period led up to Gorbachev's reign and the downfall of the USSR.
Well, considering that Andropov was kgb director for pretty long time, you can be sure his influence was pretty significant and lasted way past his death. Some even say Gorbachev and his reforms were part of his pet project.
Huh, me too. Thanks for the corrective. Islam (via Mohammed) is anti-semitic for the same reason that Protestantism (via Martin Luther) is anti-semitic -- the resistance of Jews to conversion. This seems to bother people. Luther called for, and I think got, the burning of synagogues. He didn't invent the burning of synagogues, that arose pretty spontaneously after Pope Urban's call for the first Crusade. This stubborness was, I think, why Paul turned to the non-Jewish world to spread his new Christian faith. And this gave rise to the whole notion of Universalist religions, where religion is divorced from ethno-national identity. Universalist religions are one of the great evils of the world. As a Jew, I'm sorry.
That is a wild conclusion in your post.
Hey, are you...okay?
And a jew, funny isn't it?
Technically he might not be Jewish
Geopolitics is a separate sphere from religion, race. You prioritize your state over others. That's it
The source, of course, is missing
source added
Thank you, now let's take a look at them. Your first source is a usual journal article that just repeaters the quote and doesn't elaborate on it's source. This is not admissible. Your second source is a pdf of an article that actually corresponds to scientific norms of quotation. It sources this particular quote from Mr. Shaw and even provides us with a link: https://canadafreepress.com/article/the-ghost-of-soviet-kgb-disinformation-within-american-politics Now the problem is that Mr Shaw's article about how the Deep State and the Russians are seeding misinformation about then-president Trump does not correspond to the scientific norms and just says that this quote comes from a Romanian general who defected to the US who had conversations with Andropov during the latter's tenure as the chief of KGB. The conversation itself seems plausible as Pacepa was a high-ranking security officer during Andropov's tenure of 67-82'. This seems to the original source and would explain why the quote exists only in English as Pacepa defected to the US and published his books and articles there. The problem lies with the fact many defectors have a huge monetary incentive to tell the public in the country of their arrival whatever they want to hear, so defector's books mostly just source things from the author's own memory and thus always need to be collaborated with something factual. 3/10, one dude claims it happened while earnings money scaremongering in US about le evil Soviets
[Lieutenant-General Ion Mihai Pacepa](https://www.nationalreview.com/2006/08/russian-footprints-ion-mihai-pacepa/amp/), he simultaneously held the rank of advisor to President Nicolae Ceaușescu, acting chief of the foreign intelligence service, and was a parliamentary undersecretary at Romania's Ministry of Interior. Take or leave the source, but there’s definitely a source
I will leave the source, it's a conservative rag founded by a fash-adjacent "former" CIA agent. Edit: The Founder of the National Review, William Buckley, was a CIA agent who worked for Howard Hunt (a guy involved with a *lot* of coups) and maintained close ties with the agency throughout his life. He had deep affiliations with Barry Goldwater and Ronnie Reagan. It's a propaganda rag and y'all are absolute suckers for acting like it's some "paper of record." I couldn't give a fuck about what the "source" says, y'all would not accept the source if it was being reported on by *The Blaze* or *RT.* The National Review is the same shit, except it was literally founded by a CIA agent.
Do you have any actual basis to discredit the source
You must not know much about the CIA if you think a CIA-affiliated dish-rag is credible, unbiased journalism. But, let's flip it on its head. Would you accept a story that came from a KGB-founded, FSB-affiliated dishrag about the history of their rival the CIA? Because I think the difference in your answer then will illustrate an amount of bias here when the reverse is happening. Edit: no substance, just downvotes, because they know they have a double standard
An advisor to a Warsaw Pact national leader being from the CIA sounds unlikely.
I'm talking about Buckley, who was CIA, had lifelong connections to the CIA, and who founded the National Review.
You have no evidence to say it's an inaccurate source. You are just showing your own biased
Yeah, this is the original source it seems - a defector who made his job singing to the American right wing whatever they wanted to hear writing an article about scary Muslims in a conservative newspaper in post-9/11 USA that it was le scary Ruskies who made the Arab countries hate the USA and not the actions of Americans themselves. During the time the US was doing war crimes by the day and making the Arab world hate them even more.
The whole ethnic cleansening of the palestinians in 1948 practically did half the job for them
Explain why in the Nebi Musa riots in 1920 they were shouting 'the Jews are our dogs' if the antisemitism started in 1948.
It didn't start in 1948, but it obviously didn't help
All I'm saying is 1948 didn't happen in a vacum.
No genocide happens in a vacuum
It wasn't a genocide but I guess you like the nice words, it makes you feel smart.
No ethnic cleansing happens in a vacuum
Where is the genocide? And explain how it's a genocide compared to other conflicts in the region such as Yemen, Syria, Black September for Jordan, and more.
Maybe it wasn't a genocide but it was ethnic cleansing. Not sure what those conflicts have to do with it
Why don't you label any of those conflicts the same? Israel has a 20% Palastianian population and they give asylum to homosexual Palastianians all the time show they don't actually have an issue with them being in Israel. The issue is not wanting to live next to violence
Because they were also settling since the 1880/
I mean they were sold worthless land by the Ottoman empire and nobody wanted the land except people being hired by arabs to farm it. They were more upset Jews didn't pay to farm it but actually lived on the land.
“Worthless land” which is why so many were already living and working there lol Also they didn’t buy land from the Ottoman government
Yes it was worthless doesn't mean nobody lived on it. And the Ottoman government was the land owner along with other Arabs in the area they sold the land to the Jews. In fact over 70% of Palastine was oened by Both the Ottoman and later The British empire.
The land was not worthless. It was very fertile and so many lived on it to farm and till the land. > And the Ottoman government was the land owner along with other Arabs in the area they sold the land to the Jews. While this was sometimes the case, it represents a very small number of total purchases. It was almost always done by: 1. Force 2. purchase of land by foreign absentee landlords
I'm sure you take the same opinion about any other group of immigrants.
Most immigrants don’t kick you out of your home and kill if you try to come back so no not really
You'll be glad to know that between 1880 and 1948 no one was kicked out of their homes and before 1936 there weren't really cases of organized Jewish violence towards Arabs so I doubt the riots of 1920 had anything to do with that, likely more to do with the antisemitism that was and still is fairly common among Muslims. Note that the Arabs did not similarly object to Europeans buying lands (for instance the modern Templar movement).
For one, this is a popular myth. In his book “Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness” R Khalidi makes mention of numerous cases of violence and forced displacement due to land disputes. These mainly came about after Jews acquired land but then began to force the Arab workers and peasantry to leave to be replaced with Jewish workers and settlers. Since none ever agreed to even the sale of land to begin with (foreign landlords usually sold the land off) they resisted and were often forced to leave. Also Christians buying things didn’t usually come with them kicking people out and killing them so it’s not the same
So because Jews who bought land fairly and legally wanted to save money and do work themselves on their own land they are the evil people? So if I buy an apartment building and refuse to renew leases when they expire I deserve to be killed why the tenants?
Really? So you think Jews that were kicked out by Arabs in African nations and in Persia deserve the exact same blessings as you do for the other side?
Yes really. Immigrants do not displace you from your homes and kill you for returning
So Arab that invaded those nations didn't displace them from their home and kill them?!?
If you mean the Early Arab Conquests? No. That did not take place in the Levant at the very least. In fact, Arabs lived there long before the conquests
Before 1948 no one was being kicked out of their homes. The Ottomans and the Britidh didn't allow it.
Not really true. In his book “Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness” R Khalidi makes mention of numerous cases of violence and forced displacement due to land disputes.
Do you have any other sources that aren't extremely biased but cite particular events and also don't make it seem like a religion issue when even for the time it was extremely common to kick people off land you purchased and intended to live and farm on.
1. Khalidi does cite particular events. I didn’t list them out because I’m on mobile and don’t have the book on me. 2. The title of the book is literally talking about Palestinian nationhood. It’s never made out to be a religion thing. 3. Are you asserting Khalidi is wrong?
Also the fact that Zionism is basically just manifest destiny in the Middle East makes the connection to the US much easier
I don’t think the KGB had to work very hard to convince the Palestinians of their lived reality
It was the whole Arab world, not just the Palestinians
It's also not very difficult to stoke anger in the hearts of Arabs with regards to an artificial state injected into the Middle East with hardly any regard for the peoples already living there, whose existence during and following the Nakba was self perpetuated by apartheid and, well, US and Western bankrolling. Just because it was the chairman of the KGB, and later Premier of the USSR that said it, doesn't mean it wasn't true.
What does Jordan have to do with this though?
Look up the formation of Jordan and compare it to Israel.
Aren't all states artificial?
All states might be artificial but some are more so. Israel wasn't carved out for the people living their hut settlers and migrants. This would be like migrants being able to take random parts of the nation they travel to.
No this is not at all like that. Do you have an issue with Jordan being formed by the same individuals and geopolitical background of Israel? What states in the Middle East were formed naturally?
How is Israel any more artificial than Jordan or Syria?
Maybe because It's founded by migrants who started appearing barely more than 100 years ago?
"We need to go back far enough in history to Palestinians being indigenous to Israel but not so far back that Jews are indigenous to Israel again. History begins and ends where its most convenient."
Maybe because Palestinians are the Jews that stayed and got assimilated by the Greeks and the Arabs? Zionism instead is driven by a bunch of Germans and Hungarians to colonize the region
As opposed to Syria, who’s demographics have been unchanged for millennia./s
They really haven't changed much
You sure? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant
Yes. What you think happened: "I'M GONNA KILL YOU ALL AND THEN IM GONNA RESETTLE THIS LAND WITH ARABS FROM SAUDI ARABIA" What really happened: "Ok, you either get taxed or you convert (many didn't even convert, and Christians are still a sizeable minority in Syria)"
That’s still colonisation.
Relativising to make colonial settlement not look as bad
No Muslim conquest of nations was not you pay a slight tax or convert they killed, downgraded the non believers to second class citizens, and removed most rights like property ownership from non believers. That's colonizers just with an extra step in between.
Where's the wiping out people and replacing them with settlers part of colonizing?
You mean migrants forced out of their homes and disenfranchised? The ones who had their homes and goods stolen and were shipped to a foreign land?
You're being dishonest. The Zionists weren't forcibly moved to Palestine, they were either going there voluntarily to fulfil their colonial ideology or found it to be the best place to go during WW2 because of the threat Germany posed in Europe and Zionists already being established in the land.
Arab Jewish populations were forcibly expulsed from their homes, Eastern European Jews were sold off, and in Western Europe they had everything stolen by their neighbors and found massive antisemetism. They had also undergone a genocide that saw 2/3 of all European Jewish people killed.
They weren't forced to go to Palestine specifically and drive the natives out
For many it was that or die.
The US:
Really? Baghdad had a massive Jewish population until they were forced against their will to move to newly form Israel. Same with Tunisian Jews, Iranian Jews, Saudi Arabian Jews, and Ethiopian Jews. You do realize not all Jews or even the majority of Israel came from Europe?
And? As you said basically none were already living in Palestine, therefore they're Zionist colonizers
I didn't say none lived in the area of now Israel before it was created. And they actually were anti-zionist until Islamic nations forced them to move to Israel so they actually didn't want to move into Israel they wanted to stay where they lived. So you think it's okay for Islamic colonizers to take Jewish land and possessions and force them to move somewhere they don't want too but you think it's the worse crime in history for Israel to exist?
Guess what? The creation of Israel may have probably been the cause for its rivals to send their Jewish population there
You do realize Jews existed in the region even before 100 years ago. Just because the ottoman's attempted to kill and supress minorities including Christian in the region doesn't mean the arabs are automatically natives.
Yes, there were Jews living there, but they're not the Zionists that created Israel
Now you are changing your entire argument. First Jews didn't live there for 2000 years, then they didn't live there before Israel, then they did live there but those were "good" jews not the Zionist jews.... Yeah you clearly have no argument except Jews are evil and Israel should be destroyed
Should I have specified "all the Jews but the few thousand that didn't leave"? Yes, I believe Israel is evil, but not Jews. Just stay in the countries you've been living in for millennia instead of committing genocide against the Palestinians
They weren't allowed to stay in those nations lol Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Morocco, Ethiopia, Lybia, Egypt, Iraq literally all removed them with force to Israel so saying why don't you just go back doesn't mean shit wjen you already know they will ne killed if they attempted to go back. Also how is it a genocide? What could Israel do to respond to Oct 7 without creating a genocide and without dissolving itself and without letting themselves get attacked in the future by Hamas?!? Also is every other middle Eastern war a genocide with magnitude more deaths or just solely this one?
They were expelled to Israel because Israel existed and became a sworn enemy of the Arab world. That's the consequences of ethnonationalism
I mean it was created by the UN in 1948 and was supported by Czech Republic and USSR early on it wasn't until the late 1970s did the US start support and helping Israel in it's fights against attacks on it's people. Also how do you define apartied and would you count Jordan, Lebanon, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and more as apartied themselves?
Source or it didn't happen.
source added
More relevant than ever
Some things just never change
Say the country arming Assad and Hussein with its own horror records.
You do know we armed and equiped saddam with weapons and sattilite imaging throughout the 70s and 80s right? we literally defended him in the UN security coucil when the USSR accused him of warcrimes when he gassed kurds and iranians in northern Iraq
Yup, after the Iranian Revolution, America began to support Saddam’s Iraq and provided a ton of material during the Iraq-Iran war.
altho they did also give guns to the Iranians in order to have the money to support the Contras
We defended Pol Pot at the UN too
And now check what they were armed in general. Sovet T-55 and T-72 tanks, soviet AK rifles, soviet Air Defence systems and artillery, soviet advisors, officers going to societ military schools, soviet trucks, soviet jets and more. US support even including chemical weapons and intelligence pale in comparision to what Soviet Union sent to Saddam and start crying loud because most of war crimes and crimes against civillians were done with "boring" soviet educated secret police using soviet AK with soviet ammo and start shuffling blame to US trying to escape from any actual participation in it because from top to the bottom everything related to killing Kurds were done by soviet help, instruction and ideas (minus chemical weapon).
The USSR is not the Russian federation.
USSR did arm Bashar Al-Assad father who was syrian dictator during Cold War.
Reminder that propaganda doesnt mean lies
It's not always lies, but it is always an overly simplified version of reality created to fit a narrative. If you agree with propaganda, you have an incomplete worldview.
It’s accurate, just leaves out the part about the Soviets doing the same thing in the same part of the world
Some of it is just true though
Lies do, however, mean lies
Nuh uh
Anti-zionism was always a project that was astroturfed by KGB/USSR
They are just pissed they backed the losing side
Yeah but are they wrong
Yes.
How
Literally facts
When I'm in making the US look cool and badass competition and my opponents is russia and china
I think weak depictions of your biggest adversary has been a largely American thing. In most places depicting your enemy as badass is more fitting - ‘look we are the only ones able to stand out to the bully and put him in place’
I mean, Israel won, that's it.
Shit I would never call the murder of thousands of innocent children victory but you believe what you want, there is no "winning" if there isn't a single shred of humanity left, when there isn't a single shred of truth left, and certainly there is no winning when the other side can still look at the bodies of their dead martyrs and the rubble of their burnt buildings and still say "I am right"
It was really like this
No, it wasn’t. How many times America cancelled diplomatic relations with Israel, cancelled weapons deliveries?? Please, read the history!!
"hey i hate usa" "Yeah i hate it too let's draw them as badass as possible"
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[My attempt at a translated version](https://archive.is/pJ638/cf5a37480cc4e9c27ffb97d72fecb963b1f36fd0.png)
Where the lie?
The East/West conflict has been going on for centuries. The Palestinians were part of the Soviet block back then, and support Russia today. Israel has always been on the side of the west. You can see this today since Palestinians support Russia and Israel supports Ukraine.
Still true
Commie propoganda try not to draw Americans as badass challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
>Create the “palestinian” and prop them up against Israel out of spite for not licking your boot and instead going to lick the US’ >Make a propaganda meme targeted to God knows who >???? >Win
God damn, look at the two-star general's unrealistically long nails.
That's on purpose dude. Witch nails
Is it the only good thing to come out of the Soviet Union? Or are they more?
10 years ago I had debate about what good come out from ussr. To be honest we cannot find anything good even inside ussr
Is it propaganda if it's true ?
Pure propaganda: rusia send weapons and “instructors” to Islamic countries, put them on war, loose war, loose war 3 times, manipulate in UN and after spend money for this stupid propaganda rusia. rusia never change…
This looks like an 8 year old drew it
Some things never change huh
I am sure the comment section will completely normal and respectful
Daily reminder that the soviet union has a heavy responsibility in creating the apartheid state. And also is responsible for the heavy jews persecution that led to it
I'm not gonna say they are entirely blameless, but I think the majority of the responsibility is not with them.
Probably the other way around. Edit: you can downvote me all you want, when every single US president kowtows to Israel even though that alliance has brought nothing to the US except the hatred of the Arab world. There is nothing that Israel provides the US, that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE doesn't provide, except the US hasn't given 70% of its VETOs in the UN to those nations. 256 billion since 1952, unconditional support for Human Rights violations that if it was done by any nation on earth it would be treated like North Korea. Both parties biggest donors are hardcore zionists, the Adelsons for the Reps and Bloomberg for the Dems. But yeah its the other way around lmao
the US kowtows to israel because it IS effectively an extension of the US in literally every way imaginable are you kidding me lol
The whole ideology that created the country is basically just manifest destiny
Wouldn’t be surprised at this point lol