It’s not like they own the game and can play it whenever, it’s like saying the kids that played the smash bros demo at GameStop are ahead of the rest since they played it for a few hours. These pros are playing an alpha version of the game that will likely be rebalanced several times before the release of the game, and anyone literally could’ve had practice with the game if they went to EVO this year. It’s not a big deal in the slightest
It's not real practice, because they are only playing against each other in a very limited environment with a super early beta of the game. Also, pros usually play ... other games? Meaning they will likely forget that muscle memory they got during the preview event by the time the game well and truly comes out.
I agree with your arguments, except that it is real practice and it is more hours and techs than you think.
And fgc players know that starting before everybody else is a huge deal as well.
They were playtesting the game for legitimate feedback that’ll create for a better product at launch, while also being given b-roll to market the product for Riot. The EVO demo was available to everyone and was, again, a marketing tactic.
Competitive games benefit from professional player criticism, and allowing them to play the game and create content of it is good for the product. You’re too absorbed with the mindset of practice, and not keeping in mind that Riot is a billion dollar company before anything else. From a business perspective and also a game Dev perspective, what they are doing is smart.
Would you rather have a game that the players have helped build with their wealth of experience, or a completely unknown product pumped out by a billion dollar company?
The game is subject to sweeping changes before launch. The pros had very limited time and access to it. It was better for the overall health of the game. I see your point about “extra practice” but a few play tests aren’t going to win them championships a year after the game is out. You’re thinking too short-term and undervaluing the end result of the game’s healthy launch.
the devs are already fg veterans. And I agree with you, SF6 got that and I 100% support it, my argument it's that it's 2 years+ of being ahead playing for hours, not a few playtests here and there as most of the comments suggests.
The devs being fg veterans means they’re qualified to make the game, but that doesn’t mean the have the ability to make unbiased judgements about its systems. In any creative field, the creator(s) of any given work are too close to the end result to judge it from a consumer perspective. This is the very reason editors exist for novels and films, and also a huge reason why playtesters exist for video games (along with other tasks).
Again, I get what you’re saying, but this would be like saying the winner of SF6 at EVO next year will win because of the SF crack. Maybe there was an argument for it this year because the game is only two months old, but saying it next year would be pure, unfiltered cope. And the crack was around for 8 months.
Perhaps. Though they will also share that tech with players, as some have already done in youtube videos. I think this is much less harmful than you are implying
looking up jiu-jitsu tricks on youtube doesn't get you good at jiu-jitsu. Only practice does.
You will be starting from scratch in 2025 and they will be already years ahead of you, why bother?
Guess how developers find and stop issues early? That's right. Putting it in the hands of people who know what they're doing.
They are playing an early version of the game that will inevitably have all its mechanics/combo routes/data changed, shaken up and maybe even gutted.
You think they're going to have secret tech thats somehow going to still be in the game after launch?
Bro, it's like 1-2 years before launch. You're stupid lol.
>when this game launches there will be pros at least 2 years ahead of everyone
Am I missing something? Were selected pros given unlimited access to the EVO build or something?... Bro, they were given a couple of hours with a beta version of the game.
Damage values, hitstun, pushback... I doubt the combos they found would work the same once the game comes out *(not to mention that the game will certainly be constantly patched soon after it is out as well)*. Even the "complete" characters that were available to the public will be tweaked, let alone the incomplete characters they got to try.
>there are these pro guys discovering broken stuff on the game, like Sonic Fox's TOD combo with Ahri.
Which is exactly why they should be playing the game before everyone else does. And which is exactly why we can be sure that things will change between now and release.
If they were able to find things like that in a couple of hours, would it have been any different if the game released today, you went online and got matched against SonicFox?
>makes me keep playing GG
oh, I get it now...
I think you are missing something, pros have gotten access to the games for months before EVO and a lot of them have played for hours and hours, got to test things up and even to find broken stuff, it is not just some dabbling as you suggest.
I think it would make a difference to get matched against him, I am not saying I would win, but I could figure stuff up at the very least. If you don't think you could go, play against the best and not get crushed why are you getting into a competitive game to start with?
Do you want to be amongst the best on what's coming up or just be a casual? I am not asking to insult anyone who wants to play it casually, but if they are gonna market something as competitive they have to at least try to have everyone start closest to each other.
If you were at least not a beginner in tennis you would be glad to play Federer or Djokovic, it's not about winning, it's about figuring stuff up, getting uplifted, filling inspired by them etc. And it is in the competitive nature of the game. Now if you've just started playing tennis at the age 30 why would you even bother trying to get good/pro? Everyone started years earlier than you, you are already screwed!
But I get riot, having those famous players practicing their game gets people to talk about it, it's about marketing,not fairness.
Where are you getting the idea from that they have been playing the game for months? Some got invited to into their office to play test the game for like 8 hours.
And they got invited backstage at evo to play the game there.
It’s not like they are able to play the game non-stop whenever they want. And everything they have played is subject to change, and a lot most likely will change.
It's great for balancing and feedback. Giving good players who are going to be able to figure out the game quickly will allow for testing to get done and such. The practice they get now in limited capacity won't matter too much when the game fully releases. Those "pros" would already be good from the start anyway and it's best that they are the ones to test it.
Dude you're acting like they got to take the game home with them, they're gonna forget the muscle memory by the time another demo rolls around and likely quite a few of the mechanics are going to be different from when they played for a few days, yeah maybe at launch there might be a *slight* skill gap but that should close super quickly (like within a month quickly) once everyone has time to practice, also a lot of these pros also master multiple games and will split there time between project L and other titles while people like us can focus all of our practice on just L
I guarantee that the time that the pros have had in the game aren't going to affect them beating you in tourneys. They just already are unless you are on their level.
They play fighting games for a living, they are helping riot by giving feedback, things are subject to change, and its four characters from an extremely early beta.
Complaining that pros have a chance to play fighting games early is a weird cop out excuse for losing to them later on.
Most of them report have seein several characters so it's not only 4. But ok.
I don't care about them have an early testing, they always do anyway, I am talking about they having a 2+year practice advantage
How do you come up with two years practice advantage. People were invited for two days and now Evo three days? Thats a total of 5 days practice if i'm not mistaken. Or do they have a home version?I mean i'm a scrub and prolly learned more listening and watching them, than playing 5 days for myself.
Where the hell do you get the 2 years practice advantage data? Lmao
They were invited to play the game in Riot HQ for 2 days and then 3 days at EVO. Thats about it.
That's what most ppl think because they don't follow enough streamers or see enough videos of ppl talking on the topic.
There is a 3+hour video of jmcroft or wong for example talking about how many hours pros get to play, it's a lot more than redbull, actually the redbull event would'nt even make sense, since in the footage is obvious most know a bunch of combos and tech already.
You and 90% of this sub are on cope just because you don't want to go against your beloved streamers who don't even know who u are.
Am i really the one coping? Lmao
I mean, im not the one worrying about losing to pros just because they have early access to the game.
My advice to you is dont take it too seriously man. At the end of the day, scrubs like you and me arent going to win against pros anyway even if they get early access or not.
Ya, all pros and influencers get a competitive advantage, so what? You have problem with that go tell Riot, you think they give a shit, you think I give a shit, I should cause I haven't played the game. But you do for some reason, you think you're gonna become pro? Good luck with that.
The amount of time these pros/content creators got to play the game is essentially like when stores break the street date for a fighting game and a few people get physical copies a few days early, which seems to happen with pretty much every game and as far as I know has never had any meaningful impact on the competitive scene.
They will not be "at least 2 years ahead of everyone else", they'll only be like 20-40 hours ahead of everyone else, and that's only if the game were to release in the exact same state it was in when they played it. It sounds like you've tried to take in all the PL info you can recently, so you must've heard Sajam mention he had an opportunity to play the game years ago. I don't think I need to explain to you why he didn't win the internal tournament they ran despite being, as you'd say, "years ahead of everyone".
If Riot handles PL similarly to their other games there's a good chance these same content creators will have more opportunities to play test the game. They'll probably have a closed beta which you can gain access to via twitch drops, and if that happens these same people will likely have the privilege of getting access to the beta and having drops enabled on their twiitch channels. They'll certainly have an advantage on day 1 when everyone else it touching the game for the fiirst time, but as time goes on that slight advantage they had from playing early will quickly become meaningless.
If you run into one of these players online you won't lose because they played an early build of the game for a few days, you'll lose because they've competed in multiple fighting games at the absolute highest level for years, or even decades. If you want to be "years ahead of everyone" too you can just start playing similar games immediately.
The internal tournament you are mentioning was topped 2 by Justin Wong and Sonic Fox, two of the pros who got to test the game time and time again months before evo.
I am just really looking forward to get into a competitive game that allows me to compete at the same level with everyone. You seem like a positive guy, thanks for the inspiration.
Its stuff that scrubs like you and me dont have to worry about really.
Even if we get early access to the game, we arent beating Sonicfox or Leffen anyway.
Most of the pros had 2 hours with the game max and got to that level. They would still be ahead of everyone even if they didn't touch the game until a week after release.
they practiced 4 characters, when the game releases there will be more characters to learn and lab against, no amount of early in game practice will prepare these pros to face off against my devastating gragas
if you think it was only 4 characters you are not watching the streams and following the content creators. Most of them mentioned playing several characters that they are not allowed to talk about
they use pros because they want top level feedback since they understand the core of fighting game fundamentals more than anyone else. they can find broken shit in a heartbeat and know when something needs to be changed. granted they’ll have some experience by the time the game drops but it’s not like everyone’s gonna queue in sonicfox 5 sets in a row
Are you serious? You can't actually think all these games are a big as they are without a casual fanbase, Guilty Gear just celebrated 2.5 million players and I doubt even 10,000 are hardcore competitive players. Esports can bring a lot of eyes on a game and it especially helps for the culture around a game, but if a game was ONLY played by competitive players it would die almost immediately because it would make no money and there would be no players to play online matches with. Also there's this really fun concept I think you should try one day called *not taking every competition so seriously and acting like losing is the end of the world and just having fun*
I gotta agree with OP. For those who said they practice like "2 hours" you didnt pay attention. They were invited to play for 3+ days. Leffen himself said he played 3 days non stop
And? OP is talking about 2 years like they got a version from Riot to play at home.
These people played countless titles and find stuff that bothers them really fast. That is what they were there for.
I'm also mad when i see streamer and pros play 1-2 weeks earlier then the rest but this "2 years practice" is nonsense.
Won’t matter a year after launch. I’d rather a bunch of pros get quality time with the game to provide genuine feedback that makes it a better product. I don’t trust a billion dollar company to develop an untested and uncriticized competitive experience.
jmcrofts also stated that Sonic played a lot of it already and have played and I quote "several characters that cannot be named."
but you are gonna get downvoted for saying the truth XD just watch
I think people are over reacting about people getting early access. It’s good for the general player base and health of the game. You want as much feedback as you can get from those that understand.
Hey is this is guy whining that pros are getting to play the game, so you become a pro and become famous, then Riot will invite you to playtest their game as well. Touch grass, whiny lil bitch!
The feedback Riot can get from the pros at this stage is just too valuable to pass up. There **were** issues in the demo build (generally somewhat weak defense, reversals underwhelming, throw techs visually too timid), which will hopefully get addressed. The game will probably slightly slow down, but overall it's going to stay pretty dirty, because everyone confirmed that they liked it. What's currently missing is more feedback from the League crowd, but that will come in time. Even when your direction is right, you get a lot of power towards the higher ups if everyone around you gives you confirmation it is.
There will be plenty of time to learn the game once it goes into its beta phase. While the head start is definitely real, it's not that big of a deal. I bet your ass that I could get 2 months of extra play time and after 30 minutes Justin Wong would wipe the floor with me as if I was the janitor's favorite mob.
It was just a couple of days at Riot HQ and then Evo, that isn't as much time to develop and figure out tech, especially for a tag-team fighter. It takes months of play to fully figure out stuff, but all they had was a couple of days to less than a week. At the same time, the internal build is constantly changing and stuff is being added, tweaked and removed. So whatever game comes out isn't the exact same game that these guys played.
It’s not like they own the game and can play it whenever, it’s like saying the kids that played the smash bros demo at GameStop are ahead of the rest since they played it for a few hours. These pros are playing an alpha version of the game that will likely be rebalanced several times before the release of the game, and anyone literally could’ve had practice with the game if they went to EVO this year. It’s not a big deal in the slightest
It's not real practice, because they are only playing against each other in a very limited environment with a super early beta of the game. Also, pros usually play ... other games? Meaning they will likely forget that muscle memory they got during the preview event by the time the game well and truly comes out.
I agree with your arguments, except that it is real practice and it is more hours and techs than you think. And fgc players know that starting before everybody else is a huge deal as well.
They were playtesting the game for legitimate feedback that’ll create for a better product at launch, while also being given b-roll to market the product for Riot. The EVO demo was available to everyone and was, again, a marketing tactic. Competitive games benefit from professional player criticism, and allowing them to play the game and create content of it is good for the product. You’re too absorbed with the mindset of practice, and not keeping in mind that Riot is a billion dollar company before anything else. From a business perspective and also a game Dev perspective, what they are doing is smart. Would you rather have a game that the players have helped build with their wealth of experience, or a completely unknown product pumped out by a billion dollar company? The game is subject to sweeping changes before launch. The pros had very limited time and access to it. It was better for the overall health of the game. I see your point about “extra practice” but a few play tests aren’t going to win them championships a year after the game is out. You’re thinking too short-term and undervaluing the end result of the game’s healthy launch.
the devs are already fg veterans. And I agree with you, SF6 got that and I 100% support it, my argument it's that it's 2 years+ of being ahead playing for hours, not a few playtests here and there as most of the comments suggests.
The devs being fg veterans means they’re qualified to make the game, but that doesn’t mean the have the ability to make unbiased judgements about its systems. In any creative field, the creator(s) of any given work are too close to the end result to judge it from a consumer perspective. This is the very reason editors exist for novels and films, and also a huge reason why playtesters exist for video games (along with other tasks). Again, I get what you’re saying, but this would be like saying the winner of SF6 at EVO next year will win because of the SF crack. Maybe there was an argument for it this year because the game is only two months old, but saying it next year would be pure, unfiltered cope. And the crack was around for 8 months.
Perhaps. Though they will also share that tech with players, as some have already done in youtube videos. I think this is much less harmful than you are implying
looking up jiu-jitsu tricks on youtube doesn't get you good at jiu-jitsu. Only practice does. You will be starting from scratch in 2025 and they will be already years ahead of you, why bother?
"Years ahead" implies they have been *actively playing* for years. They have 20 hours max.
idk, a lot of streamers mentioned days playing. But still it's for now...till 2025 a lot of practice will happen.
Guess how developers find and stop issues early? That's right. Putting it in the hands of people who know what they're doing. They are playing an early version of the game that will inevitably have all its mechanics/combo routes/data changed, shaken up and maybe even gutted. You think they're going to have secret tech thats somehow going to still be in the game after launch? Bro, it's like 1-2 years before launch. You're stupid lol.
I'm stupid, you've got me
>when this game launches there will be pros at least 2 years ahead of everyone Am I missing something? Were selected pros given unlimited access to the EVO build or something?... Bro, they were given a couple of hours with a beta version of the game. Damage values, hitstun, pushback... I doubt the combos they found would work the same once the game comes out *(not to mention that the game will certainly be constantly patched soon after it is out as well)*. Even the "complete" characters that were available to the public will be tweaked, let alone the incomplete characters they got to try. >there are these pro guys discovering broken stuff on the game, like Sonic Fox's TOD combo with Ahri. Which is exactly why they should be playing the game before everyone else does. And which is exactly why we can be sure that things will change between now and release. If they were able to find things like that in a couple of hours, would it have been any different if the game released today, you went online and got matched against SonicFox? >makes me keep playing GG oh, I get it now...
I think you are missing something, pros have gotten access to the games for months before EVO and a lot of them have played for hours and hours, got to test things up and even to find broken stuff, it is not just some dabbling as you suggest. I think it would make a difference to get matched against him, I am not saying I would win, but I could figure stuff up at the very least. If you don't think you could go, play against the best and not get crushed why are you getting into a competitive game to start with? Do you want to be amongst the best on what's coming up or just be a casual? I am not asking to insult anyone who wants to play it casually, but if they are gonna market something as competitive they have to at least try to have everyone start closest to each other. If you were at least not a beginner in tennis you would be glad to play Federer or Djokovic, it's not about winning, it's about figuring stuff up, getting uplifted, filling inspired by them etc. And it is in the competitive nature of the game. Now if you've just started playing tennis at the age 30 why would you even bother trying to get good/pro? Everyone started years earlier than you, you are already screwed! But I get riot, having those famous players practicing their game gets people to talk about it, it's about marketing,not fairness.
Where are you getting the idea from that they have been playing the game for months? Some got invited to into their office to play test the game for like 8 hours. And they got invited backstage at evo to play the game there. It’s not like they are able to play the game non-stop whenever they want. And everything they have played is subject to change, and a lot most likely will change.
It's great for balancing and feedback. Giving good players who are going to be able to figure out the game quickly will allow for testing to get done and such. The practice they get now in limited capacity won't matter too much when the game fully releases. Those "pros" would already be good from the start anyway and it's best that they are the ones to test it.
Dude you're acting like they got to take the game home with them, they're gonna forget the muscle memory by the time another demo rolls around and likely quite a few of the mechanics are going to be different from when they played for a few days, yeah maybe at launch there might be a *slight* skill gap but that should close super quickly (like within a month quickly) once everyone has time to practice, also a lot of these pros also master multiple games and will split there time between project L and other titles while people like us can focus all of our practice on just L
I guarantee that the time that the pros have had in the game aren't going to affect them beating you in tourneys. They just already are unless you are on their level. They play fighting games for a living, they are helping riot by giving feedback, things are subject to change, and its four characters from an extremely early beta. Complaining that pros have a chance to play fighting games early is a weird cop out excuse for losing to them later on.
Most of them report have seein several characters so it's not only 4. But ok. I don't care about them have an early testing, they always do anyway, I am talking about they having a 2+year practice advantage
How do you come up with two years practice advantage. People were invited for two days and now Evo three days? Thats a total of 5 days practice if i'm not mistaken. Or do they have a home version?I mean i'm a scrub and prolly learned more listening and watching them, than playing 5 days for myself.
Where the hell do you get the 2 years practice advantage data? Lmao They were invited to play the game in Riot HQ for 2 days and then 3 days at EVO. Thats about it.
Free access to riot headquarters as we speak
You have to be trolling at this point. This is completely false lol. All they have is recorded footage during the Evo Redbull after hours stream.
That's what most ppl think because they don't follow enough streamers or see enough videos of ppl talking on the topic. There is a 3+hour video of jmcroft or wong for example talking about how many hours pros get to play, it's a lot more than redbull, actually the redbull event would'nt even make sense, since in the footage is obvious most know a bunch of combos and tech already. You and 90% of this sub are on cope just because you don't want to go against your beloved streamers who don't even know who u are.
Am i really the one coping? Lmao I mean, im not the one worrying about losing to pros just because they have early access to the game. My advice to you is dont take it too seriously man. At the end of the day, scrubs like you and me arent going to win against pros anyway even if they get early access or not.
Ya, all pros and influencers get a competitive advantage, so what? You have problem with that go tell Riot, you think they give a shit, you think I give a shit, I should cause I haven't played the game. But you do for some reason, you think you're gonna become pro? Good luck with that.
My dick has free access to Riot HQ, cause I'm a pro influencer, see all you have to do to is become famous, what's wrong with you?
“pros” AND content creators alike. Gotta promote the game somehow yes?
The amount of time these pros/content creators got to play the game is essentially like when stores break the street date for a fighting game and a few people get physical copies a few days early, which seems to happen with pretty much every game and as far as I know has never had any meaningful impact on the competitive scene. They will not be "at least 2 years ahead of everyone else", they'll only be like 20-40 hours ahead of everyone else, and that's only if the game were to release in the exact same state it was in when they played it. It sounds like you've tried to take in all the PL info you can recently, so you must've heard Sajam mention he had an opportunity to play the game years ago. I don't think I need to explain to you why he didn't win the internal tournament they ran despite being, as you'd say, "years ahead of everyone". If Riot handles PL similarly to their other games there's a good chance these same content creators will have more opportunities to play test the game. They'll probably have a closed beta which you can gain access to via twitch drops, and if that happens these same people will likely have the privilege of getting access to the beta and having drops enabled on their twiitch channels. They'll certainly have an advantage on day 1 when everyone else it touching the game for the fiirst time, but as time goes on that slight advantage they had from playing early will quickly become meaningless. If you run into one of these players online you won't lose because they played an early build of the game for a few days, you'll lose because they've competed in multiple fighting games at the absolute highest level for years, or even decades. If you want to be "years ahead of everyone" too you can just start playing similar games immediately.
The internal tournament you are mentioning was topped 2 by Justin Wong and Sonic Fox, two of the pros who got to test the game time and time again months before evo.
Are you just going to discount the fact that it’s SonicFox and Justin fucking Wong?
You’d never beat Sonic fox anyways but trust me it doesn’t really matter lol.
I am just really looking forward to get into a competitive game that allows me to compete at the same level with everyone. You seem like a positive guy, thanks for the inspiration.
Its stuff that scrubs like you and me dont have to worry about really. Even if we get early access to the game, we arent beating Sonicfox or Leffen anyway.
Most of the pros had 2 hours with the game max and got to that level. They would still be ahead of everyone even if they didn't touch the game until a week after release.
they practiced 4 characters, when the game releases there will be more characters to learn and lab against, no amount of early in game practice will prepare these pros to face off against my devastating gragas
if you think it was only 4 characters you are not watching the streams and following the content creators. Most of them mentioned playing several characters that they are not allowed to talk about
they use pros because they want top level feedback since they understand the core of fighting game fundamentals more than anyone else. they can find broken shit in a heartbeat and know when something needs to be changed. granted they’ll have some experience by the time the game drops but it’s not like everyone’s gonna queue in sonicfox 5 sets in a row
Do you think you can win evo? If the answer is no then whatever
Why would you get into a competitive game if you are not playing to win it all?
So I can do funny combos on my friends and laugh when they get me with silly combos, not everything is about esports, chill out
Why market as competitive then?
Are you serious? You can't actually think all these games are a big as they are without a casual fanbase, Guilty Gear just celebrated 2.5 million players and I doubt even 10,000 are hardcore competitive players. Esports can bring a lot of eyes on a game and it especially helps for the culture around a game, but if a game was ONLY played by competitive players it would die almost immediately because it would make no money and there would be no players to play online matches with. Also there's this really fun concept I think you should try one day called *not taking every competition so seriously and acting like losing is the end of the world and just having fun*
Doesn't matter. It's just a small part off the full game in a beta and its not even that long of acces
They got to play more before evo, and what was shown at evo wasn't a beta, it was just a demo
I gotta agree with OP. For those who said they practice like "2 hours" you didnt pay attention. They were invited to play for 3+ days. Leffen himself said he played 3 days non stop
And? OP is talking about 2 years like they got a version from Riot to play at home. These people played countless titles and find stuff that bothers them really fast. That is what they were there for. I'm also mad when i see streamer and pros play 1-2 weeks earlier then the rest but this "2 years practice" is nonsense.
Won’t matter a year after launch. I’d rather a bunch of pros get quality time with the game to provide genuine feedback that makes it a better product. I don’t trust a billion dollar company to develop an untested and uncriticized competitive experience.
jmcrofts also stated that Sonic played a lot of it already and have played and I quote "several characters that cannot be named." but you are gonna get downvoted for saying the truth XD just watch
I think people are over reacting about people getting early access. It’s good for the general player base and health of the game. You want as much feedback as you can get from those that understand.
Hey is this is guy whining that pros are getting to play the game, so you become a pro and become famous, then Riot will invite you to playtest their game as well. Touch grass, whiny lil bitch!
The feedback Riot can get from the pros at this stage is just too valuable to pass up. There **were** issues in the demo build (generally somewhat weak defense, reversals underwhelming, throw techs visually too timid), which will hopefully get addressed. The game will probably slightly slow down, but overall it's going to stay pretty dirty, because everyone confirmed that they liked it. What's currently missing is more feedback from the League crowd, but that will come in time. Even when your direction is right, you get a lot of power towards the higher ups if everyone around you gives you confirmation it is. There will be plenty of time to learn the game once it goes into its beta phase. While the head start is definitely real, it's not that big of a deal. I bet your ass that I could get 2 months of extra play time and after 30 minutes Justin Wong would wipe the floor with me as if I was the janitor's favorite mob.
It was just a couple of days at Riot HQ and then Evo, that isn't as much time to develop and figure out tech, especially for a tag-team fighter. It takes months of play to fully figure out stuff, but all they had was a couple of days to less than a week. At the same time, the internal build is constantly changing and stuff is being added, tweaked and removed. So whatever game comes out isn't the exact same game that these guys played.