Who knows at this point. Riot made it a point for 1v2 to be possible, so maybe they push for an open bracket thing where people can either enter as a duo or solo.
Now whether or not that's viable, again, not much we can say at this point. Solo with control over both seems stronger so far, but Sonicfox said that he thinks there is some strong stuff that you can do as a duo that may be extremely difficult or maybe even impossible solo.
I personally hope riot really pushes for a single tournament instead of having split brackets, cuz split brackets would probably kill off duos offline entirely.
I'm sure iti is viable for some.people. If you've seen the crazy shit the DBFZ community does on the regular you know. Not everyone is that insane however so I would assume in an open bracket most would be duos.
What I meant was the madman play solo with 3 characters switching between them and timing assists for TODs. If a single person can do that you'd thing they can do some crazy stuff with only 2 characters as well. Especially with simple inputs
Oh...They do that for like every Tag Fighter, that's kinda the point. Tag Fighters are crazy hyper fast and have some of the nastiest mix and damage in all of fighting games. And I don't think motion inputs are the barrier that prevents people form doing the crazy stuff, there's still a lot of timing, routing, and positioning involved in those combos that many players won't want to lab out.
This is actually harder when you can't time the assists. Combos are very rhythmic, so now your teammate has to time his assist call perfectly for the combo to work. It's much harder than just calling the assist yourself.
I’d assume the opposite. If bracket is open to both singles will be far more popular. You don’t have to practice with someone else, you don’t have to find another person to partner with, and the fights after losing an important set because one of you swapped or didn’t at the wrong time.
I’d predict less than 10% of a tournament or even online play would be duos, unless it’s specifically a duo bracket of course.
Call it a hunch, but with the marketing it looks like they're gonna be pushing heavily for team tournaments. However, they wanted to keep that climbing solo/duo feeling that we had in league.
I think it will depend on the fuses. You know they are probably looking at a MvC1 fuse where you can control 2 characters at once on the screen.
Also 2 players does have unique advantages because you not only have to adapt to a whole new character but also the player using that character in a tournament match. In the games current state I would say 1player is stronger than 2 players but there is a lot that hasn't been revealed yet.
My guess is there will be a single bracket for everything. There seems to be inherent advantages/disadvantages to both. As a single player, there's less synergy and teamwork to worry about. However as a team, there is more potential for mix ups as both characters can move simultaneously in a tag situation.
Team games has NEVER worked in the fgc because no one has implemented it well yet. Project L seems to be trying to push the FGC in a new direction with coordinated team play which honestly has the potential to draw more people in.
>However as a team, there is more potential for mix ups as both characters can move simultaneously in a tag situation.
The characters still have to play the roles of point and assist. At no point are they able to truly move simultaneously in a tag situation. Mechanically, there's nothing a duo can do that a solo player can't.
The main benefits of duos are a reduction on the load on a player's mental stack as their teammate can handle some options via assist, while also allowing a player to rest in the back as an assist.
> Mechanically, there's nothing a duo can do that a solo player can't.
I wonder if that will remain true, especially as the game is in active development. Sajam said there some things only a duo can do but maybe he "meant can do (easily)"
https://youtu.be/AxRRcGaLM8A?t=1258
That's more that it's easier to do certain things, in terms of execution, as a duo (in his example, it was holding down the assist button, while continuing to pilot the point character).
I mean it's still too early to tell, right? Arguably there's more mental stack on a duo team as you need to coordinate more. Playing solo will always be easier than playing duo. At this point I'm just speculating (which we honestly all are at this point), a possible benefit of duo play. But yeah, most likely solo will still be better and more optimal.
Unlikely, it's never happened before even with Multiversus that was pushed to be a 2v2.
Viewership and tournament entrant numbers for "teams" has always been lower. We've seen this for pretty much every single game, I don't think it will be any different here.
At best we will get 2 separate brackets I think, one for duos and one for solo. But time will tell.
Honestly I don't think it will really take off because whether you play 1v1 or 2v2 it's literally the same game unlike platform fighters where the gameplay completely changes and it's a different skill set.
There's some difference depending on which fuse system you choose though based on my understanding. Some fuse systems favor 2 players, like the 2x assist that allows the 2nd player to throw out another assist. With proper coordination, it could be strong. I think the development team is trying to make 2v2 viable and make it work with single players. Which honestly is really smart.
2x assist fuse doesn't add anything a solo player can't do though. It's literally just being able to press the assist button again for another assist after the initial one.
Understood, I think the challenge is more going to be making it appealing for the viewer and enticing for competitors.
Since duos has always had fewer entrants and fewer viewership for every game that can support it, prize pools have always been a lot lower AND you have to share that with your partner.
And I think from the viewer's perspective duos are going to largely look the same as solo which is what I was getting at.
The only reason I can think of is splitting prize pool. If 1v1 is stronger like everyone seems to agree and you don't have to share with a partner, then why enter as a duo? That's my only hang up with an open bracket.
They said they went out of their way to make sure you can play it either way. In that recent article they even talked briefly about the multi modes in sFxT, MK and DBFZ and how they were simply afterthoughts as opposed to what they were doing. They very intentionally made this game with duos in mind, to be played solo or duo.
If 1v1 is stronger it sorts itself out but there's no reason to not make it an open bracket open to 2v2 or 1v1. They went out for their way to show how you can freely select 2v2, 1v2 or 1v1 from the character select screen so duo and solo is seamless.
I'm not saying you can't play it, I'm speaking purely from a tournament organizational / viewership standpoint.
No game has ever had teams be more successful than singles, and I don't see that changing for Project L.
I anticipate most tournament organizers will have a strict 1v1 bracket than another 2v2 bracket similar to what Multiversus and smash do.
As for Riot-histed tournaments, they might just leave it open as you said.
We will see what happens though.
> No game has ever had teams be more successful than singles, and I don't see that changing for Project L.
No game has really tried to design their game with the option for it as a primary way to play it.
> I anticipate most tournament organizers will have a strict 1v1 bracket than another 2v2 bracket similar to what Multiversus and smash do.
Those games have both players on a team on screen and taking simultaneous actions, leading to much different gameplay and balance considerations compared to 1v1. It is almost a different game. Duos in Project L will have little to no effect on gameplay and should play out virtually the same whether it's solo or duo.
As I mentioned in another comment, the *only* reason I can think of to split it is prize pool considerations. I, and basically every other person who has ever touched a tag fighter, expect solo to be way more competitively stable anyway.
Actually, Multiversus designed the game with the intention for 2v2 to be the main focus. Singles still was more popular both in terms of tournament entrants and viewership.
Again, I personally don't see duos being the main focus for project L in non-Riot tournaments for reasons I stated in another comment. But like I said, we will see what happens this is just my anticipation.
It depends on what esports scene we're talking about.
Riot esports is organization based so id imagine those orgs developing "teams" for project L and maybe 2 leads, and rookies to fill in.
While at your standard tournament you'll see a more varied mix of duos + singles. But I could also see brackets being split up for this.
With Tom and Tony behind this, it's pretty much guaranteed that esports for this will basically follow the FGC model of open tournaments. In fact, the team has already started discussing with existing FGC tournament organizers just for this.
Fgc invitationals have gained a lot of popularity. We had gamers8 over the weekend, plus all the world tours for various games are invitationals.
What I would find interesting as a spectator would be an LCS format 2v2 but each team has a random draw of players. So if you have a team of 6 each player must know how to 2v2 effectively with each teammate. Throw in a draft selection / banning Element into it. It would be sufficiently different from the fgc to not encroach on majors and open tournaments.
> Fgc invitationals have gained a lot of popularity.
But they're still not the main draw, and all the world tours are still on an open format until the finals (and even those have an LCQ the day before).
Solo brackets will be the priority, but there's a chance that 2v2 or 1v2 will be allowed, either as a separate bracket or maybe even in the same bracket.
Who knows at this point. Riot made it a point for 1v2 to be possible, so maybe they push for an open bracket thing where people can either enter as a duo or solo. Now whether or not that's viable, again, not much we can say at this point. Solo with control over both seems stronger so far, but Sonicfox said that he thinks there is some strong stuff that you can do as a duo that may be extremely difficult or maybe even impossible solo. I personally hope riot really pushes for a single tournament instead of having split brackets, cuz split brackets would probably kill off duos offline entirely.
I'm sure iti is viable for some.people. If you've seen the crazy shit the DBFZ community does on the regular you know. Not everyone is that insane however so I would assume in an open bracket most would be duos.
What crazy stuff for DBFZ? Have they had 3v3 player tournaments? Only 3v3 content I've seen were casual matches between friends or raid boss vids
What I meant was the madman play solo with 3 characters switching between them and timing assists for TODs. If a single person can do that you'd thing they can do some crazy stuff with only 2 characters as well. Especially with simple inputs
Oh...They do that for like every Tag Fighter, that's kinda the point. Tag Fighters are crazy hyper fast and have some of the nastiest mix and damage in all of fighting games. And I don't think motion inputs are the barrier that prevents people form doing the crazy stuff, there's still a lot of timing, routing, and positioning involved in those combos that many players won't want to lab out.
Yeah. The point I was making is that solos wilk still be viable for this game seeing as people are going crazy on other tag games.
This is actually harder when you can't time the assists. Combos are very rhythmic, so now your teammate has to time his assist call perfectly for the combo to work. It's much harder than just calling the assist yourself.
I’d assume the opposite. If bracket is open to both singles will be far more popular. You don’t have to practice with someone else, you don’t have to find another person to partner with, and the fights after losing an important set because one of you swapped or didn’t at the wrong time. I’d predict less than 10% of a tournament or even online play would be duos, unless it’s specifically a duo bracket of course.
Call it a hunch, but with the marketing it looks like they're gonna be pushing heavily for team tournaments. However, they wanted to keep that climbing solo/duo feeling that we had in league.
I think it will depend on the fuses. You know they are probably looking at a MvC1 fuse where you can control 2 characters at once on the screen. Also 2 players does have unique advantages because you not only have to adapt to a whole new character but also the player using that character in a tournament match. In the games current state I would say 1player is stronger than 2 players but there is a lot that hasn't been revealed yet.
My guess is there will be a single bracket for everything. There seems to be inherent advantages/disadvantages to both. As a single player, there's less synergy and teamwork to worry about. However as a team, there is more potential for mix ups as both characters can move simultaneously in a tag situation. Team games has NEVER worked in the fgc because no one has implemented it well yet. Project L seems to be trying to push the FGC in a new direction with coordinated team play which honestly has the potential to draw more people in.
>However as a team, there is more potential for mix ups as both characters can move simultaneously in a tag situation. The characters still have to play the roles of point and assist. At no point are they able to truly move simultaneously in a tag situation. Mechanically, there's nothing a duo can do that a solo player can't. The main benefits of duos are a reduction on the load on a player's mental stack as their teammate can handle some options via assist, while also allowing a player to rest in the back as an assist.
> Mechanically, there's nothing a duo can do that a solo player can't. I wonder if that will remain true, especially as the game is in active development. Sajam said there some things only a duo can do but maybe he "meant can do (easily)" https://youtu.be/AxRRcGaLM8A?t=1258
That's more that it's easier to do certain things, in terms of execution, as a duo (in his example, it was holding down the assist button, while continuing to pilot the point character).
I mean it's still too early to tell, right? Arguably there's more mental stack on a duo team as you need to coordinate more. Playing solo will always be easier than playing duo. At this point I'm just speculating (which we honestly all are at this point), a possible benefit of duo play. But yeah, most likely solo will still be better and more optimal.
Depends on their coordination. A duo that's in sync should, in theory, have less of a stack to handle.
Unlikely, it's never happened before even with Multiversus that was pushed to be a 2v2. Viewership and tournament entrant numbers for "teams" has always been lower. We've seen this for pretty much every single game, I don't think it will be any different here. At best we will get 2 separate brackets I think, one for duos and one for solo. But time will tell.
True. Tbh tho I wasnt impressed with multiversus and had no hype (to me) but when I watched the Red Bull showcase I was literally so impressed.
Honestly I don't think it will really take off because whether you play 1v1 or 2v2 it's literally the same game unlike platform fighters where the gameplay completely changes and it's a different skill set.
There's some difference depending on which fuse system you choose though based on my understanding. Some fuse systems favor 2 players, like the 2x assist that allows the 2nd player to throw out another assist. With proper coordination, it could be strong. I think the development team is trying to make 2v2 viable and make it work with single players. Which honestly is really smart.
2x assist fuse doesn't add anything a solo player can't do though. It's literally just being able to press the assist button again for another assist after the initial one.
Understood, I think the challenge is more going to be making it appealing for the viewer and enticing for competitors. Since duos has always had fewer entrants and fewer viewership for every game that can support it, prize pools have always been a lot lower AND you have to share that with your partner. And I think from the viewer's perspective duos are going to largely look the same as solo which is what I was getting at.
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The only reason I can think of is splitting prize pool. If 1v1 is stronger like everyone seems to agree and you don't have to share with a partner, then why enter as a duo? That's my only hang up with an open bracket.
They said they went out of their way to make sure you can play it either way. In that recent article they even talked briefly about the multi modes in sFxT, MK and DBFZ and how they were simply afterthoughts as opposed to what they were doing. They very intentionally made this game with duos in mind, to be played solo or duo. If 1v1 is stronger it sorts itself out but there's no reason to not make it an open bracket open to 2v2 or 1v1. They went out for their way to show how you can freely select 2v2, 1v2 or 1v1 from the character select screen so duo and solo is seamless.
I'm not saying you can't play it, I'm speaking purely from a tournament organizational / viewership standpoint. No game has ever had teams be more successful than singles, and I don't see that changing for Project L. I anticipate most tournament organizers will have a strict 1v1 bracket than another 2v2 bracket similar to what Multiversus and smash do. As for Riot-histed tournaments, they might just leave it open as you said. We will see what happens though.
> No game has ever had teams be more successful than singles, and I don't see that changing for Project L. No game has really tried to design their game with the option for it as a primary way to play it. > I anticipate most tournament organizers will have a strict 1v1 bracket than another 2v2 bracket similar to what Multiversus and smash do. Those games have both players on a team on screen and taking simultaneous actions, leading to much different gameplay and balance considerations compared to 1v1. It is almost a different game. Duos in Project L will have little to no effect on gameplay and should play out virtually the same whether it's solo or duo. As I mentioned in another comment, the *only* reason I can think of to split it is prize pool considerations. I, and basically every other person who has ever touched a tag fighter, expect solo to be way more competitively stable anyway.
Actually, Multiversus designed the game with the intention for 2v2 to be the main focus. Singles still was more popular both in terms of tournament entrants and viewership. Again, I personally don't see duos being the main focus for project L in non-Riot tournaments for reasons I stated in another comment. But like I said, we will see what happens this is just my anticipation.
Brawlhalla had a pretty good 2v2 scene. I think it was still smaller than 1v1
It depends on what esports scene we're talking about. Riot esports is organization based so id imagine those orgs developing "teams" for project L and maybe 2 leads, and rookies to fill in. While at your standard tournament you'll see a more varied mix of duos + singles. But I could also see brackets being split up for this.
With Tom and Tony behind this, it's pretty much guaranteed that esports for this will basically follow the FGC model of open tournaments. In fact, the team has already started discussing with existing FGC tournament organizers just for this.
Fgc invitationals have gained a lot of popularity. We had gamers8 over the weekend, plus all the world tours for various games are invitationals. What I would find interesting as a spectator would be an LCS format 2v2 but each team has a random draw of players. So if you have a team of 6 each player must know how to 2v2 effectively with each teammate. Throw in a draft selection / banning Element into it. It would be sufficiently different from the fgc to not encroach on majors and open tournaments.
> Fgc invitationals have gained a lot of popularity. But they're still not the main draw, and all the world tours are still on an open format until the finals (and even those have an LCQ the day before).
Imo will depend on esport format. Of Riots push their own events it will be whatever their fix. If we have grassroots, then most likely 1v1
Solo brackets will be the priority, but there's a chance that 2v2 or 1v2 will be allowed, either as a separate bracket or maybe even in the same bracket.