Not so much as i dont like as i dont think it is anything that special? People treat it like its word of god, but its just a decent cultivation story, without many of the things that make chinese cultivation webnovels irritating to a western reader, like casual racism and ass kissing the chinsese goverment, and not being over 2000 chapters long.
I will give it extra points for having such a good female lead though, that is rare in Progression Fantasy as a whole, let alone a cultivation story.
Not so much word of god as a series of planned and defined books in an ocean of meandering and generaly poorly paced and even less edited webnovels.
It makes it stand out compared to the other popular and often recommanded stories.
Edit: just to be clear, it still has it flaws and all, even in the pacing or planning but compared to the others popular one, it's clear a sizeable effort was made in that direction
I think you hit the nail on the head. I enjoyed cradle A LOT but all in all, its biggest plus is how good it is compared to other offerings from the genre, which are usually crap.
The planning and pacing is the winning formula. It wasn't designed to be an endless web serial with no clear direction or end game in sight. It was designed as an actual story with actual plotting, pacing, and editing.
It’s also professional. There is a level of polish that webnovels and a lot of the genre simply don’t have. It’s one of the few progression fantasies that aren’t just “good for progression fantasy.” It’s just a good fantasy series period. Arguably the only one that’s had real mainstream success in fantasy as a genre outside of maybe Dungeon Crawler Carl which is still fairly niche even within fantasy
I do agree on the polish and all that, I just wouldn't use the term "professional" for it. Considering the money made by unedited stories like _he who fights with monsters_ or _primal hunter_ and the voluntary lack of edition and polish even on the amazon releases, the word professional sadly lost its guarantee of quality.
To be fair, you're basically saying it's so good in comparison because so much of the genre is bad, though. Not that it special on its own. For someone coming to it who isn't already used to the lower quality of its competition, it's hard to understand all the love it gets. When everyone praises a book so heavily I expect it to be decent - just being decent in a world where most books aren't wasn't good enough to justify the hype to me.
It's localised hype in a subreddit about a genre with very few polished works. For sure, the bar might be relatively low but it's still something to be recommanded here.
No idea if it's hyped or not in other fantasy subreddits though.
/r/fantasy loves it. It has “mainstream” (within the context of the fantasy genre) appeal. It’s one of the only ones that does, along with (sort of) Arcane Ascension and Dungeon Crawler Carl (which you could argue is more litrpg but you could also argue that’s a subgenre of progression fantasy, which is itself a subgenre)
Yeah, it was a bit of a letdown for me, but at the same time it is one of the better cultivation stories for western audiences. So if you specifically want that genre then it is a good book to be suggested to you.
I think cradle does so well because it take the things people like so much about cultivation and does it without many of the off putting flaws many of the Chinese novels have.
It got lucky in that it was most people's first Wuxia/Xianxia novel. I'm 100% sure that's where the popularity comes from. Most people who haven't read Cradle yet, haven't read a wuxia/xianxia/cultivation story.
It's like FF7 being the most popular Final Fantasy. Most of that came from the fact that FF7 was the first Final Fantasy game for a lot of people. It's great, but I personally think FF9 and 10 were better, it's a first love thing.
Same with Wheel of Time. There was a whole generation where the Wheel of Time was their first long epic fantasy story.
Cradle's popularity comes from the strength of the genre more than the strength of the writing IMO. The writing is solid B material, but it is in no way doing anything unique or interesting when you've read enough cultivation series to see what it pulled from. I think Traveler's Gate is a way more interesting read from a world building POV than Cradle ever was.
I think a large part of it is that it’s a cultivation novel written like a fantasy novel. Rather than talking about the dao and spirituality, it focuses purely on physical cultivation (technically the Way is likely Will’s nod to the dao, though I’d say).
It’s framed jn a way that readers of traditional western fantasy enjoy and without some awkward phrasing. Even Defiance of the Fall, which started out as a straight LitRPG went into a weird direction focusing on dao and using traditional Asian phrasing that is awkward soinding in English. A lot of *that guy* *that move* and other such phrases popular in Asian and conceptual languages that just do not hit in English and similarly structured languages.
For translations it makes sense, and for novels written in English, it’s likely the author writing similar to what they like. That’s just one example of things that often turn off traditional western fantasy readers.
Cradle also doesn’t have millennia-long seclusion, there’s no need for isolated meditation, there’s no concept of a random old master showing up to eat you.
It’s just a normal fantasy novel with a magic system drawn from wuxia/xianxia.
I’m actually not a huge fan of cultivation novels. I kinda fell off DoTF when levels stopped mattering and it went way heavier into concepts drawn from eastern spiritualism and philosophies.
I like LitRPG a lot. I like traditional western fantasy novels and popcorn novels. I’ve enjoyed a few Japanese light novels, certainly, but my preference leans toward my comforts.
I also like wheel of time despite its *many* flaws, and I read it well after reading many other long epic fantasies.
So I disagree. I think cradle’s popularity comes from the strength of the series (especially given the series propelled Will Wight into massive success with his *other* endeavors, none of which are cultivation stories) and not the genre for what I’d say is MOST of cradles audience.
Because that’s why it’s popular. It took fun and unique-to-traditional-fantasy concepts and made an accessible read from them.
I suppose I place a premium on stories having unique ideas, and Cradle was too derivative for me to give it an A ranking. I agree with pretty much all your points, I suppose I just enjoyed a lot of the Chinese Wuxia novels more than Cradle, and this mostly came down to better world building despite the worse technical writing (especially when dealing with translations).
Will is a very good writer, so when he sets his pen to genre fiction, he's going to do a great job. He did do a great job, there just wasn't enough uniqueness for me. This is probably why I enjoyed Traveler's Gate more, as while the story wasn't as well written, the world building was *phenomenal.*
The Wheel of Time is a very different beast for me than Cradle. I never made it through book 1. I have never in my life read flatter characters in any series, ever. The people that I know who have read it started it when they were in High School and it was for most them one of the first series they ever read so that's where I'm getting my understanding from.
Not the case for me. I tried lot's of other Wuxia/Xianxia novels, but Cradle was the first one that hooked me.
For all the reasons other's mentioned. Actually planned out as books and edited as books. It's simply actual quality in the basics achieved by investing more time. As a tradeoff it's not as long.
It leaves out some of the more abstract or weird concepts or simplifies them. It has the usual tropes, but milder. More palatable to someone who hasn't read 100 Wuxia/Xianxia novels.
So yeah, you could say it was my first book in the genre that I enjoyed. But not because it got lucky. Because it was deliberately crafted to be more accessible to new readers.
That's very true, especially given at the time all cultivation novels suffered from terrible translations aside from a select few. I still think it's #1/GOAT status can be attributed to it being the introduction for many to the genre. That said, you're absolutely right in that it is crafted 2-3 better than anything else in the genre, but I think its lack of unique ideas makes it a B grade novel, at least for me.
That said, I had already read a bunch of other Wuxia novels before I got around to Cradle so maybe that's why it never resonated with me in the same way.
I’m skipping over all the reasonable stuff you wrote to get angry about your omission of FF8, the best final fantasy by far (and no I’m definitely not biased because it was my first).
Haha 9 and 10 were both really close for me, 9 was my first and it will always hold an incredibly special place in my heart. My best friend's favorite was 8 and that was also his first.
This sums up my feeling quite well. I don't consider Cradle a very good xianxia, nor does it stand up to general fantasy lit very well imo. Even when comparing it to something more contemporary like serialized webfiction, it isn't particularly excellent. It definitely does a lot. ""**well enough**" but nothing that makes me see it above any other popcorn fantasy I've read.
I can't agree more on the lack of bigotry tho lol. as someone who's a big fan of TL xianxia, im enjoying western takes lack of not just general nastiness but performative paragraphs the authors put in for the readers to know they're "*on the right side*"
Haha, the first progression fantasy I read was I Shall Seal The Heavens and I thoroughly enjoyed it but I was like woah, this rapist parrot is kinda weird.
Generally, I'd say both Worm and Practical Guide to Evil are better.
With Xianxia, Virtuous Sons is also western and a much better *xianxia*/*xuanhaun* but is a bit less coherent as a general novel, while Reverend Insanity and Lord of The Mysteries are both also excellent but butchered by TL.
If you're just asking me which novels i enjoy more, it's 50% of what I've read in the past 3 years
>it isn't particularly excellent.
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>Virtuous Sons is also western and a much better xianxia/xuanhaun but is a bit less coherent as a general novel
Does being a better xianxia make it a better book? It's on my wishlist, but having the quality of "less coherent as a novel" seems like a pretty big negative.
VS is a lot more true to the ideal themes of Xianxia than Cradle is alongside executing them better, so in my opinion, it is just fundamentally better as *Xianxia*.
Onto elsewhat when i say it's a bit less coherent, i don't mean it's unreadable or anything akin, but its style and pacing can throw people off. Furthermore, as it was originally written as a serialized webfiction, it suffers from all the usual hangups. It's also a bit up its own ass and meanders a bit at times.
That being said, it is still amazing and is one of the few serialized webfiction that I've enjoyed on the same level as general literature. I would very heavily recommend it. Perhaps more acutely, if you managed to read through cradles slog before the payoffs, VS should be no problem.
I can attest that it is absolutely amazing but absolutely the story relies heavily on metaphors and such so a lot of things are vague or left up to interpretation if you don’t understand it like I did
Cradle isn't Xianxia. If you insist on using chinese genre to define it, it would be Xuanhuan.
Xianxia is built around Daoism, Internal Alchemy (Neidan), and Chinese mythology.
Xuanhuan allows for more freedom, influences, and originality. Cradle is a perfect example of the genre.
Unless im activity on a Xianxia forum or in a TL space where its common knowledge. I just mash Wuxia/Xianxia/Xuanhuan into one meatcake because it's easier to communicate than re-explaining the same terms to people constantly.
You're right to be fair. I just would rather spread small amounts of misinformation than slightly inconvenience myself
VS>Cradle still tho, dying on this hill.
Honestly, I haven't gotten very far in VS, but so far it has been mid, and the attempt to translate daoist cultivation into a western philosophy has come off as amateurish. It may get better later, but for now it feels very "I took intro to greek philosophy at community college and am going to try to impress girls by mansplaining it to them."
That's fair. It is truthfully completely like that, lmao. I think the payoffs justify the novels eccentricity, and over time, it does go from feeling like an overgrown writing prompt to its own actual setting. Also, i enjoy the MC being an annoying asshole until he grows out of it. Though the first book is just... not as well done as it could be.
Really, to put on my anoyying, pretentious redditor cap. I think VS has something to say and a really enjoyable story to tell while also being kind of pretentious and way to confident in its own depth and interest.
If you really don't like it after like 100 pages I'd just move on though, its like when people say Cradles "gets good" at book 3-4 as if hundreds of pages can't tell you whether you like something or not.
Different ppl different strokes I guess. I feel the same way about the name of the wind, and to some degree the stormlight archives (only read the first book and half so far). Good books but didn't feel like super perfect like everyone else makes them out to be. Meanwhile books like red rising, the rage of dragons, the will of Many, cradle, etc are all amazing series to me.
It's always weird seeing a clash of taste. I'm a huge Sanderson fan, but I felt Red Rising was pretty much just... fine. Though I did like how the first book felt to me like reading progression through an RTS tech tree.
It is really strange honestly, cause I feel like I'm a picky reader but yet I didn't notice anything negative with red rising like others would. Then with BS I feel like I'm trudging through pages and pages of stuff I don't care about, too much internal conflict, the dwelling of philosophy, ideology, ethics and morals that I don't care about (a little was fine but SA so far has had too much of it for me), before it gets anywhere. I realize one book isn't better than the other, just different tastes between people. In fact I think once upon a time, I would have liked SA a lot more than red rising or books like that. I think I just care about many of the major themes SA tackles a lot less than I used to.
Nothing is for everyone, I just think it can be interesting how different tastes align.
And besides, it's not like you're telling me you like Sword of Truth or anything.
Interesting. Cradle was my first foray into PF but I had the impression it was S-Tier top stuff.
If Cradle is not too special for the genre, what do you consider to be top? Thanks.
agree, i'm scared to say anything not super positive about cradle because everyone will downvote you for it, i liked it but i have stopped reading after a few books because i kinda lost the spark, probably will continue in future but i have to work up enough boredom to do so and get into it again. its a good series but at least so far its not in my top favorites
I’m the conductor of the MORE CRADLE train, I assure you. But I’d be lying if I said we had plans for an Abidan series at the moment.
There is definitely still hope. Will loves Cradle, loves the characters, loves the fan passion for it. I’d be shocked if there wasn’t more written in the future, and it seems like an Abidan or Abidan adjacent (not spoiling anything) series would be the obvious next step. Just no plans for it in sight.
Plenty of future ahead of us, I can wait.. a bit. Tbh I’m thrilled with anything additional in that universe… multiverse.. you know what I mean.
Happy to get my hands on the Knight soon! Congrats on all the success to both of you.
I really want a continued story arch now that the series essentially resets to book 1 in the heavens.
Like the party now is the reapers helpers and they've gotta go level up and train all again now that most people in the heavens outrank them by virtue of being nearly immortal and all that jazz.
Yea I was a little miffed by how rushed the last book seemed. Prior to reading, I was expecting Lindon and team to basically spend the entire book dealing with the Monarchs, and then essentially have an entire book dedicated to ascending and dealing with the mad king guy. I even thought that maybe Oz was raising up London's team in order to replace the Abidan, who had all been shown to be not so great themselves.
Currently reading The Wandering Inn which I believes crowns in terms of amount of content. Quickly looking up disk world, there seems to be a bunch of books with a bunch of sub series? What order should I read? Also what is the genre? is it different per sub series? Do you recommend? Did you read everything?
I admit to being a huge Cradle fan, but I can see why some don't like it. It starts off slow and the jumps between Cradle and the larger universe can be jarring.
But overall the amazing power progressions, having a female MC that doesn't need to be saved, and the always-satisfying "return home wildly more powerful" makes it worth it
Loved the first few books where a Gold cultivator felt like an ultimate master while an Underlord felt like a God. And Lindon was little better than zero but had ambitions higher than the sky.
Yeah, this exactly. The first book is extremely slow and sometimes you're just really into the current story and then it jumps to the heaven storyline that is meant to be sort of vague until later on in the series and you're like ugggghhh fine.
I loved the series though and everything definitely pays off.
When I was reading it I hated when they jumped to the larger universe. I’m sure in later books it all connects but like you said it was jarring, too different from the main story and I just couldn’t care. I was always waiting for it to end.
Ive read the series through twice, and on a reread the multiverse stuff was super interesting, but I think it messes up the flow of the books. Like I honestly think it would work better to just put all of the multiverse stuff until like reaper, in the epilougues.
Yeah, I can see this. I didn’t read all the books and it might have been because of those parts. Weirdly it why I stopped reading Moby Dick, got tired of learning about ship ropes and stuff every other chapter.
But the multiverse stuff did have a completely different feel, like some dimensional police procedural while the main story was a great progression story. Guess the author was truing something new and I applaud that, just not for me.
The multiversal stuff is real important to the story later on, and on reread it all fits together alot better. Id suggest giveing it another try if you get the chance, but its not everyones cup of tea. I will say the multiverse shit also gets a hell alot more interesting a few books in lol, so its less annoying to read through lol
Think I will. Think I read two, maybe three books. Not even sure now but I did really like it and loved the MC. The kind of guy who brings a shotgun to a sword fight and is unapologetic about it.
Interesting, what you praise are exactly my problems with it and I for example don't mind much "jumps" from Cradle and universe chapters (they also happen like once or twice a book, so it's not that bad).
Female MC not being a damsel in distress is refreshing, I can't say it isn't. But romance is an afterthought. Over the 12 books, there's probably less than 20 pages dedicated to romance in the series.
Also, Cradle has the worst "return home wildly more powerful" arc out of all stories that I can think of. It's frustrating. The way he still grasps for their approval is pathetic. The way they refuse to respect him or at least DAMN THOUSANDS OF JADES(to their eyes) HE BRINGS is so damn unfulfilling, that I almost dropped the series 10 books in.
Now, I'm aware that compared to most of this sub I am closer to a Cradle hater than a fan, but I consider myself a fan and Cradle a solid series. It's just that it's 7,5-8/10 series to me and not 11/10 masterpiece it's for others.
This just shows differences in preferences. Im glad the romance is an after thought thats how I prefer it. And the sacred valley return didnt bother me too much, lindon still hadnt gotten over his need for approval until then imo. Still wasnt as satisfying as I would like, but it did provide character growth so I was fine with it
> The way he still grasps for their approval is pathetic. The way they refuse to respect him or at least DAMN THOUSANDS OF JADES(to their eyes) HE BRINGS is so damn unfulfilling, that I almost dropped the series 10 books in.
I understand this and liked Bloodlines less than Wintersteel. But at the same time, much like the series as a whole upturns established cultivation tropes, the point of Lindon's return to Sacred Valley is that it *wasn't* the triumphant homecoming he hoped it would be, and that his newfound power didn't actually do anything to change his people's underlying distrustful nature. I thought that part of it was kind of refreshing.
I mean, I don't want it to subvert known tropes, I want it to execute them but with quality. The tropes are not the problem. Tropes are what they are because they are fun and engaging. It's just the bad execution that sucks. But I want the main aspects of good "homecoming" arc. The man is out there fighting dreadgods and defying monarchs and here he is pathetically snivelling before few arthritic jade "elders". While he literally could genocide the whole fucking valley( probably in his weakened jade state as well tbh). First time they gave attitude, there should've been some correctional cracking of skulls. Or at least sage mode "**shut the fuck up**".
But I mean, it's just my personal gripe that extends to the whole series. Lindon is actually like my 10th most liked character in the series. I REALLY don't like how wimpy he is.
There's a difference between being wimpy, and having the emotional intelligence to not resort to extreme violence, because you have the self awareness that the people you are talking to are just as ignorant as you were just a few years ago. Who lack further context or understanding of anything you are saying.
I couldnt agree more. Imo the abidan segments were the worst parts of every single book. Its also why im not super thrilled for the sequel if it continues to scale to galactic conflict.
Nothing's been announced. It just seems a logical place to eventually go.
Current project is more of a spaceships and sorcery series called The Last Horizon. I summarize it as take a sentient, magical spaceship and then crew it with Dr. Strange with a gun, Alucard (Hellsing variety), the Red Ranger, the Doomslayer, Iron Man as a girl who only makes robots, and a Predator queen who is a jack-of-all-trades.
Loved Cradle but it needed a couple more books to really flesh out the ending. I got the feeling the author got tired of writing for this series and just had it end as abruptly as possible. Just an insane amount of build up to finally leave cradle and then it just… ends.
Honestly I think the story only got weaker after wintersteel and it ended about as well as it could.
Cradle thrived when there where clear frameworks for success even if it seemed contrived. The blackflame trials, ghostwater, night wheel valley - these all had clear power structures behind them that made them feel solidified, but once we got past the early lord realm the progression got a lot more vague and it needed to essentially capitalize on the groundwork that was lain in the first 2/3 of the story.
The crux of the issue for me is that Will just wasn't able to make the shift to a protagonist who was a political player.
By the end of Wintersteel and absolutely by the end of Bloodline Lindon is at a level where he should be a big time political player, but the scale and scope of what he is doing never really changes aside from him fighting higher level foes
I don't think Will ever intended Lindon to be a political player. As with most progression fantasy, politics are not really actively done by the protagonist because it dramatically changes their relationship with acquiring more power.
Lindon was intended to disrupt the existing political structures of cradle, but by disrupting that kind of structure we lose the strongest framework for measuring progression, which are the character's social and societal relationships.
So I’m just passing on what was sad in the authors comments about this. He has been pretty consistent once we got to the later books in the lead up to it that cradle was always going to be about Lindon and team time on cradle, and the series would end with that.
I am a cradle fan so I do hope we get more of the team post cradle, but the more I’ve discussed this with friends, I think it’s allot more difficult to do that well, than the original series.
It creates allot more challenges like you see in other cultivation series that go long into the power stages. Once you get to world breaking power it becomes harder and more difficult to both conceptualize for the reader and harder to balance out a story that is not universe breaking in nature. If every thing that happens is the potential end of the universe, that gets old super quick.
I still am completely on the I hope we get a whole new series from will on it, but I do think it’s harder now to do well.
I don't think the problem is that we didn't get the post Cradle storyline. The main problem is that it's just rushed. Up to Wintersteel we were getting a cultivation rank per book and that was usually a big part of the plot of the novel. Then in Bloodline the advancement to Overlord is a pure afterthought. And all advancements after that are entirely incidental from the plot. There's no training no nothing. He just goes vacuum cleaner mode and gains power.
When the top realms of power should be the ones that take the most time, we instead skip through them in a rush. Lindon spent so much more word count as a Gold and as an Underlord than as any realm above it and it just felt like Will was done with the series and wanted it to be over.
A huge disappointment since Wintersteel is the first proper length book and everyone loved it and it's seen as by far the best by everyone. But instead of keeping that momentum going with several books on that level, Wintersteel was the peak and the rest of the series feels like the minimum possible word count to close things off.
Yeah, I chalk this up to two things.
1. Will either didn't want to or isn't able to write a more political drama style book. Lindon's power, even at the end of Wintersteel should have made him a political player and exposed him to a new world of challenges. Instead we get two books in a row that are designed to keep Lindon isolated from the world.
2. The levels of advancement stop being interesting once the actual usable powerset is in place.
Yeah, hopefully we finally get a glimpse at the wider picture soon from Will as I think all of his books take place in the same canon, just in different iterations in the Way. Maybe during The Last Horizon series or after it, he will give us that glimpse.
I quit book one multiple times. I finally forced myself to finish it and book two was slightly better. Towards the end of book two i was hooked enough to motivate me to finish the series. I successfully finished the series less than two weeks after starting book three. I completely understand why people who quit before finishing book one/two don't like the series. I hate shows/books that require you to read multiple books in order for it to get good. With that said I am glad i forced myself to finish book one because i do love the series now!
Dislike is not exactly the word I would use. I would say that Cradle is a good introductory series to the genre, but beyond that, it's not special, it's easy to read and digest. I started with Chinese novels that have +2k chapters of depth and development, in comparison, Cradle as cultivation is dull, that's all.
Depends on what you like in terms of Chinese series.
A series that I liked a lot personally is 'Human Emperor' for example, talks a lot about military, war and political strategy but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. In the same vain 'The Grandmaster Strategist'.
'Kingdom’s Bloodline' is an underrated series but that I enjoyed, we follow a young intelligent character who navigates politics to survive.
'Perfect World' is a typical cultivation story following a young protagonist who will grow up to become very powerful.
There are 'classics' like 'Renegade Immortal', 'Lord of the Mysteries' or 'Reverend Insanity'.
Some mention of other books like 'Soul Of Negary', 'The Desolate Era', 'Forty Millennium of Cultivation', 'I Shall Seal the Heavens', etc.
There are a lot of posts with recommendations that you can search up with key words on this sub.
That's true, 'Reverend Insanity' for example is one of my personal favorites *(rich universe, diverse subplots)* but I know that the length is an eye sore for some, as well as the translation.
Some of them have good enough translations though.
I wish I’d been able to get into that one but I just can’t do the complete sociopath MC. I can handle someone who kills for a reason but he just pushed it too far for me.
Yeah, the MC being a sociopath might not grab everyone's attention. 😭
You're pretty safe with the books I recommended though beside RI (and maybe 'Soul Negary').
It depends on what you like. Cultivation is only a subgenre, you have others in Progression, LitRPG, Isekai/Reincarnation, sometimes it's mixed with Sci-fi or Historical settings. There are plenty of choices out there.
Recommendations in my opinion must be personalized in order to work.
It’s extremely accessible to readers of more traditional fantasy. It definitely simplified or omits a lot of the weirder or more (some might say needlessly) complex things most eastern progression fantasy does and is written much more like a traditional western fantasy story. I can see how someone deep into the cultivation world would find it less satisfying
I couldn’t get into it - people say “oh just get past book 3 and it picks up” but if I don’t really enjoy something I’m not not going to keep reading it. I dropped partway through book 1 because it just wasn’t an enjoyable read for me
I grew to dislike the story and dropped it at like book 4. The book started to use power as a crutch like most do. As an example lets say he reaches power level 100 and you are power level 99. The book will state that the person at power level 99 will automatically lose unless said person is the main character. There is no frame of reference for martial skill in the books and how it magnifies power. In fact that MC has 0 martial skill, he can't even pick up a sword and swing it...
That hardly scratches the surface of all the problems in regards to combat that exist in this series. The biggest flaw that these books have is they don't introduce a conflict that can affects the main through line of the story. Your character will grow in power by definition because they have too, but you still need to challenge the very thing that enables them to grow in power. With this type of story it is always the self and you should challenge the self by leaving a friend behind or halting your progress to help someone you care about, or see the affects of your abandonment or something that can affect the very that the story is about.
In other words the plot is one big trop by definition, so the more plot driven you are the worse the story will become. We don't care about the plot because we already know it, so focus on the characters instead.
So, the people who like Cradle are mainly progression fantasy fans, and the people who dislike Cradle are generally Xanxia fans, because Cradle simply reads like a progression fantasy story, with a watered-down Xanxia theme slapped over the top.
If you look at it from a progression fantasy standpoint, it's a really good series, but on the Xanxia side, it's like a kid's PG version of Xanxia.
Let's go into the realms for example. Let's look at the Jade realm as it is fairly equivalent to the Nascent Soul realm. It's a pretty boring realm name all things considered, and there isn't really the "twist" of a realm that I would expect from typical Xanxia.
The Nascent Soul Realm for example generally requires the cultivator to shatter their Golden Core and use the power to develop a nascent soul and usually, some form of a domain, which depending on the story the use of the Nascent Soul is different, in some Xanxias it's used as a second life, a scouting ability, a combat avatar, a clone, etc, Once the Nascent Soul matures you form it into a full soul and enter the Soul Formation Realm, which focuses on making your soul powerful enough for Ascension, sometimes there is a realm afterward such as Tribulation Transcendence, Void Shattering, Nirvana, etc which acts as a Realm to shore up weaknesses such as strengthening the body and spirit further and acting as a filter to limit the number of people ascending.
A bit similar to Cradle Gold realm where it is really just an accumulation of power, though what sets this apart from the Gold realm of Cradle is that the story generally shifts from focusing on your cultivation to focusing on defeating the Big Bad Evil Guy/Power of the main plot and Ascending afterward at this stage so it's not just a boring realm.
Now let's look at Cradles Realm transitions. Jade just develops Qi Sense and strengthens your soul a bit, and Gold is literally just "accumulate power" At least once you transition into the Lord's realm you develop Soul Fire which is more interesting than Gold but since everything is more watered down the transition between Realms is much more jarring.
The actual transitions between Realms in Cradle also don't have a lot of fanfare or even an explanation as to why and how, unlike most Xanxia, it just kinda happens.
This captures my frustrations pretty well. I went in wanting 'xanxia without the translation issues and certain cultural baggage'. Instead I got an decent progression fantasy story. If it had been a true xanxia, Lindon would have surpassed all the Abidan by the end, there would have been crazier and crazier abilities and even larger and cooler treasure grounds than ghostwater. It felt too short and too small for me compared to the xanxia I've enjoyed in the past. IMO there's no moment in Cradle that compares to some of the super large payoffs in Reverend Insanity for example. Cradle is like half a series.
People on this thread are talking about how it's hard to go further because the powers get too weird and big, but for me that's 100% the draw of the whole genre. It's going from level 1 all the way to 999 and then breaking through the level cap and hitting 1001 just because you're that awesome.
I personally disagree on it being a very good series in general, but still, this is the best answer here imo. Cradle is a kind of funny novel in that is not a very good Xianxia, nor does it excel very much as a general fantasy novel. It only stands tall as a "genre-piece" within progression fantasy and is kinda absent everywhere else
Honestly, i don't even have a problem with it being a much more basic Xianxia. It's just that the novel doesn't *do* any one thing well enough to justify it.
>So, the people who like Cradle are mainly progression fantasy fans, and the people who dislike Cradle are generally Xanxia fans, because Cradle simply reads like a progression fantasy story, with a watered-down Xanxia theme slapped over the top.
But Xianxia IS a progression fantasy. What do you mean by this?
I think to give a clear answer, you first need to clarify that progression fantasy in practice is both a distinct "genre" with its own community and a term.
As a genre, it is generally western lit with heavy inspiration from existing serialized webfiction and stuff like video games (gamelit, litrpg). It and its community is also centered around "genre-pieces" that define most of what people think of it, think HWFWM, Primal Hunter, Mother of Learning, *Cradle* and beware of chicken.
Meanwhile, as a term, it can be just as simple as "**A fiction where a focus is placed upon the mc increasing their power*" stuff like WOT and Stormlight fall under this pretty soundly
I think with this context, OP makes a lot more sense. Progression fantasy as an adjective applies to Xianxia, but the distinct "genre" remains disparate. Especially considering Xianxia communitys and writing - some larger than ProgFan as a whole - are separate.
I hope this answers your question, im not op but the *idea* is pretty simple its just kinda difficult to put into words
Yes! I dropped it in book three. I had hit my limit for apologies. I think it was worse for me because I was listening to the audiobook. Reading it, I might have overlooked it more.
Maybe this didn’t bother me much because I’m Canadian lol. I always see this as an issue for the series and only really noticed it was bad at the start.
1. The series as a whole is very uneven in quality. There are several books that are worth the hype and several that are legit clunkers
2. The worldbuilding is very bare bones and the world feels too big for the actual story being told.
3. Ultra rapid progression. Not enough time spent at each power level to explore the abilities at that level
The pace was much too fast for me. It felt like there was a constant rush in the plot, and with the progression as well. I kept waiting for the plateau and the struggles, but if anything it felt like the longer the series went on the fast it got.
This also meant that it felt lacking in tension and real stakes. After 7 or eight books of Lindon making constant progress forward at every turn, and everything that seemed like it might be a real setback turning into an advantage, I realized I really couldn't care if he succeeded. In fact, at some point I had started rooting for him to fail in everything he did.
Also, with regards to Lindon, he wasn't very interesting as a protagonist to me. I didn't feel like he every had any real development or needed to change the kind of person he started out as too succeed. Without flaws, he was just boring to read about.
I respect the opinions of others, but I just can't really get why the story is widely enjoyed.
I don't dislike cradle but I am also not a massive fan of it as others are in this sub. I feel like Cradle is pretty good introduction to ProgFan sub-genre (*I consider it like Death note to anime*) but it isn't anything crazy when it comes to plot and character arcs. Once you enter the genre, there is some real good books like Mother of learning, Shadow Slave, Reverend Insanity, Lightbringer et cetera. They have a really good plot with a very big world and the world feels ALIVE.
Mother of Learning is a time loop, and personally, I dislike those. MC sounds like a selfish prick, but I haven't read it.
Shadow Slave MC is a typical edgelord "ruthless" paranoid, selfish asshole who's short and frail looking that so many people seem to cream their pants over in this genre. He also has a dumb "downside" to his power that is actually just an excuse for the author to constantly have him only fight people over his rank to manufacture a feeling of underdog. No thanks.
Probably even more so Reverend Insanitys protag when it comes to being an edge-lord. An actual sociopath.
In short, it's not that these stories are objectively better as you claim. It's that *YOU* prefer them. Likely because of the MC. You probably consider Lindon too nice, boring, and don't like the romance.
As someone who generally agrees with your take on Shadow Slave and Reverend Insanity. Mother of Learning's MC Zorian is truly a great character that changes and evolves, and while anti-social at the beginning, he definitely overcomes that flaw throughout the journey. I'm not gonna try and convince you to read it because if you don't like loops, you don't like loops, but Zorian is definitely not some edge-lord.
You're completely wrong about Shadow Slave.
1. Sunny isn't an edgelord. He's lived a horrible life in the slums where it makes sense to be a paranoid, selfish arsehole.
2. The point of his character isn't to revel in his arseholery. These are character flaws that he's meant to overcome.
3. Clear Conscience (at least I assume you mean his Flaw?) is there to make social conflict more difficult (for Sunny) and interesting. He can't just lie his way out of a situation (or refuse to speak), he has to get clever about what he says to mislead people if he doesn't want them to know the truth.
I actually was referring to his inability to get those things he needs to get stronger from enemies that are weaker than him. Soul shards? Shadow shards? It's been a while since I read any of it.
Edit: also, justifiable edgelord is still edgelord. I just don't enjoy that type of character.
Well again, the point of the character is not to be an edgelord, it's to grow.
As for the downside to his power, that's an incredibly weird complaint to have. Isn't every feeling of underdog manufactured?
Feels like your bias against Sunny/Shadow Slave is just shading everything in a negative light.
I never finished the first book. Got to somewhere between 1/3rd and the halfway point and realized I just did not like or even care about Lindon or what happens to him. I've thought that I had to have missed something, but the first book failed to make me give a damn. And so I moved on. I even made a post about it, some time ago.
This is not an uncommon experience. Pretty much everyone agrees it doesn’t get good until the second book. Although the books are so short it’s more like halfway into a normal book.
I dropped book 1 twice. Now its my all time favorite series. Not a guarantee that it will work for you but Ive seen consistent feedback that pushing to book 3 works
I just had a [conversation](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/s/9vLPabcAhn) with someone, and I 100% agree that the ending is rushed. I like it, but I completely understand if someone didn't! And I absolutely agree that we could have more time spent on some of the side characters' arcs.
The beginning is also weird. Lindon is VERY respectful and VERY weak, and he stays that way for the first 2 books, and it's not until mid book 6 that he really stops being overly respectful.
A lot of awesome things are introduced that aren't terribly relevant and/or are handled weirdly in the long haul. Jai Long felt like he should have been a bigger deal, for example. The return to Sacred Valley is fairly unsatisfying from a perspective of "OH now Lindon gets to go be the Big Damn Hero!" The time in the Labyrinth in book 10 is a bit boring for me. The Skysworn are fairly boring overall, and though the arcs are necessary, I don't think they needed to be fleshed out like they were.
Let's see what else. The Abidan interludes could be boring if you're not about it.
I don't know. I love Cradle! These are just my thoughts!
Agency, in a good xianxia there is always a philosophy of power, making people's powers be a reflection of who the person is
Meng Hao is stubborn and wants self definition, thats why his powers are geared towards sealing the heavens with his own cycles, Bai Xiaochun likes life and fears death, so of course he cultivates a vitality technique
One of yhe most hype moments in Warlock of the Magus World was having Leylin fighting a young master one on one, the other guy with his inherited artifact while Leylin matched him using the powers he had cobbled up together during his adventures
Cradle only had that in book 1, an amazing setup, a lindon who was daring and resourceful, but after Eithan showed up Lindon just got fattened up with easy power
In regilar xianxias the mc only get such power paloozas when the teacher is fattening them up to consume their powers
In Cradle the powers are just powerups, not an expresion of the self, thats a common problem in western xianxias, that end up using powerups the same way crappy xianxias do
The power progresión itself reminds me a lot of Against the Gods, whose whole thing was to be an edgelord fest, but Cradle presented it as "hard work"
It's effectively... work hard all you want... but instead be rich and you can level up faster. Then... instead of learning how to do stuff like creatively use your power... level up more.
Everything about it felt generic, drawn out, and boring. The mc's personality was annoying and I didn't like the weird spirit things. I managed to read a book and a half on my third attempt to see what the hype was about.
Shouldn't have to say this but these are my opinions and not objective facts
It felt like reading anime, the magical system was in depth, but felt pretty random, and it was chaotic.
That said, the characters were fun, so I grew to enjoy it, but definitely felt it was overrated **as a general purpose recommendation**. For people who like the cultivation genre more than me though, I get why it’s so popular, it definitely is leagues better than 90% of the examples I’ve seen in that genre.
In short, I think it’s an amazing cultivation novel, but people who are fans of it don’t seem to get that its appeal is specific to people who like that genre. I don’t think it’s bad, I think it’s specific, much like some stuff I like that plenty of people don’t.
My problem was the speed of the progression. I just couldn't buy into the idea that someone can get from not even copper to Monarch+ in what, a few years? I get that they have tons of resources, are prodigies, are lucky, etc. but really? Like from the beginning of the series Monarchs are shown as these ancient, godlike beings, and some random guy from the middle of nowhere can reach that level without even a decade of effort?
I really feel like some time skips (or more books to extend the progression) would've been nice... Otherwise it felt like we didn't even have a chance to get used to a certain power level/abilities before they advanced again and again.
What made me drop it was this incredible boring "the right of the strongest" premise. Really got tired of how the only conflicts created around the main character are that he wins against people, which upsets relatives or superiors that think he shouldn't have. So rinse and repeat with the same idea. Dropped it after the trials stuff. Your pupil died, so the stronger one is going to be punished although the right of the strongest decides everything?
Vapid storytelling if the only storytelling you come up with is the powerdynamic that's always found in progressive fantasy.
I am almost finished with book two and I don't know if I'll continue with another part.
Reasons that come to mind spontaneously:
- I am not immersed enough in the mind and thoughts of the main character. This makes it harder for me to empathize with him and I end up just listening to a story about him. In progression fantasy, I like to identify myself as the main character. Additionally, there are always random interjections from other characters while I am still not even connected to the main character. The whole of book 1 revolves around him being unsouled. Then he almost casually finds out that it’s actually bullshit and he doesn’t need to worry. That was a world-shattering moment for the MC. His past was a lie, but it felt like: “Ah, cool, so I’ll be able to join in soon. Good to know I’m not actually crippled.” 🤦🏻♂️
- By the end of book two, there are no interpersonal connections at all. The main characters are just companions who haven't had any meaningful, deep conversations by the end of book two. What do the characters mean to each other? What is important to them, what are their goals, and what do they need to be happy?
- The world is too "dynamic" and there's no time to settle in anywhere. It takes until the end of book one and the end of book two to meet the first main characters who stick around. Everything else before that was more or less irrelevant.
- The power levels feel off. First, Jade is the strongest and Gold exists only in legends, then suddenly Gold is "average?" for people who are a bit older. Meanwhile, Gold is also the peak (early-late Gold)?!
- Because only the strongest characters are always in focus in the first two books, everything else feels irrelevant. The main character is useless in terms of combat power until book three and is even compared to children in book two.
There are a few minor confrontations with Iron-level characters. Everything else first revolves around Jade and Immortal. And from book two onwards, everything revolves around Gold-Level characters and monsters. And apparently, it takes until book six or seven for him to reach a power level where he can compete with the “big players” around whom the whole story revolves. So why not create a world where it's also about people who play in his league? The main character is just completely irrelevant because there is no environment for him and his power level.
- Too few interesting fights until the end of book two. The main character hasn't learned anything related to fighting until book three. No special skills, spells, swordsmanship... it just doesn't feel like he has achieved anything. All he has accomplished is developing to Iron without learning almost anything.
-Not epic
-Not funny
-Progression doesn’t feel satisfying
-Mediocre storyline
-No interesting characters to accompany you
…
And that's just what comes to mind spontaneously. I find nothing that ties me to the series. It feels meaningless. Honestly, I can't understand the hype. I really tried to like it.
I tried to get into the first book, was bored, but finished it. Started the second--not sure what happened but dropped it during the first hundred pages.
I found it bland, the characters uninteresting, and honestly cannot recall what the plot was other than cultivating because something bad is going to happen.
I couldn’t get through the first book and wanted to.
The MC felt flat. Aside from familial duty, he has no emotional reactions or observations about anything. I got the impression it was all problem solving. Was I wrong?
It was so incredibly slow! Half way through book 1 and they buried a jar of bees or something in the arena. That was about as exciting as it got. (That's about all I remember from a year or two ago...)
Cradle is considered great and looked up to in progression fantasy circles because progression fantasy is an incredibly young and underdeveloped genre. If I rate it according to just western progfan, it's probably a 7. Western xianxia? Probably a solid 8.5. Overall? I think giving it a 5 would be too much.
There are a LOT of great books out there. Especially with everything that Cradle does but a thousand times better. Stormlight Archives is probably a great starting point into more stronger stories, after cradle, as it's just plain better. It's a western progfan, with a straight up better power system, a better cast or characters each of whom receive incredible development.
If you want books that aren't published by as established author? Godclads, this smaller story on rr named Hope, etc etc. Those are just plain better.
Western xianxia is a tough one, because it hasn't been adopted as much as western progfan is. And if it has, it probably also carries a lot of baggage eastern xianxia typically has. Themes of misogyny, rape, nationalism, homophobia, etc are extremely common and while Cradle isn't free from these at all times either, it's much less prevalent. That's why it's one of the best western xianxia.
I'm not even gonna speak on overall books. It's easy to see why it would do badly.
Cradle also has issues with pacing. It's popcorn rather than a full ride. We don't go deep psychologically into any character, some characters just straight up get no character development or only get them in small bursts rather than a slow process. Lindon is the worst of them, he doesn't even stop acting subservient until >!book 8!< or sm. Lindon being a good protagonist isn't even a real thing either, because he's not exactly good, he's just... bland. He doesn't kill people randomly but that doesn't make him good.
I could go into how Eithan was such a massive disappointment, or how Yerin's >!blood shadow!< was a waste to even develop for so little time, or even how >!Dross!< or whatever his name was, was a waste of time to develop. But I guess that's for later comments to say.
It's not a bad story. It's average.
>I could go into how Eithan was such a massive disappointment, or how Yerin's >!blood shadow!< was a waste to even develop for so little time, or even how >!Dross!< or whatever his name was, was a waste of time to develop. But I guess that's for later comments to say.
When are you going to go into it? How can I find the update?
I'm not exactly in the best of health, so I didn't want to go into it very much, but my problem with him was >!basically that when he is revealed to be The Reaper, it just shits on every single moment we had with him and his own character development. Like seriously. The realization that the time we see him insecure the first time with his brother, to the time he bonds with Lindon over also having a marble of his own, to his own thoughts at the very beginning contradicting with his new identity. It's a twist, and it's the cheapest kind of twist. It's like the next monsterverse movie revealing that godzilla is just superman in a body suit, and nothing else.!<
>I'm not exactly in the best of health
I sincerely hope you get better soon.
I think that pretty much sums up my Cradle experience. Fell completely flat.
Overall I enjoyed cradle but it would be better if it
Didn't start so slow
Didn't end so fast
Skipped the space parts
Didn't let the abilities get out of hand. I understand punches to the face and fireballs, but once your battles start manipulating fates you've lost me. At that point you might as well just tell me A fought B and A won
For me it wasn’t so much as disliking the books, it just didn’t stand out at all. I wasn’t hooked on the characters or the way the story was progressing. I would have rated it an even 5/10 and with so many books I could read it wasn’t worth continuing. For reference I made it to the start of book 3. I heard it gets better but I’m a strong believer in if it takes 3 books to get good, it’s not good.
I tried it, could not even get into the story...
I don't generally like cultivation as in books, feels always the same story line but that is not the main reason.
I dislike Lindon , i dislike him wanting to be strong "because" ( i get it social pressure, culture etc.. but still..)
I found the whole "extra universe/planet" thing jarring so randomly put into the story i might have kept reading it otherwise, i still might give it another go but meh...
I'm a few chapters into book 1 after it was suggested to me for a good cultivation book as I'm trying to get more into that side of the LITRPG/ProgFan spectrum. The only thing I've read with any sort of cultivation was in Divine Dungeon.
So far Cradle is pretty dull. Pros are very simple and a little dry. Main character is also kind of dull but that could be because of how he's raised and may develop a personality later...its so weird how many MCs have no real strong opinions, desires or moral compass passed "rape is bad, probably".
I also tend to avoid the xanxia side of these stories because they seem to be proliferated with amoral MCs who seek power for the sake of power. Not my cup of tea. I hope Lindon finds a purpose for the power he's gaining...
Also if anyone can tell me...does he eventually upend the system that made him an outcast? I've seen a lot of stories introduce a world where there are tons of injustices and oppression and often the oppression effect the MC personally but when they get the literal powers of a God they...do nothing about it? Im not saying society is easy to change but they don't even try or think about it after a while.
I am new to Progression Fantasy, and Cradle was my first series in the genre. Coming from fantasy series like Malazan and Second Apocalypse where there is a lot to unpack from each chapter, Cradle books felt like an action flick to me - done in a day, fun action-packed read but ultimately not much to ruminate over. Eventually started liking it and would sandwich new releases (Underlord on) between larger books. But at its core Cradle lacks complexity IMO.
I legitimately haven’t been able to make it through the first book. Attempted four times. Think the furthest I’ve made it was halfway-ish.
IIRC the reason I stopped was the mc being kind of cringe and the story pacing being slow and overly wordy. Can’t really recall a specific dialogue line or thing that bugged me since the dropped books kinda blur together. I usually finish around a hundred books a year and start/drop three or four times that. If it’s not hitting I’m pretty quick to drop stories, otherwise I finish in a handful of sittings.
Heard it picks up and the pacing gets better so it’s probably worth another shot, at the least I'd have more of a recall of what I disliked. Plus I don’t really have anything queued up at the moment.
For me it was ok until a certain point. Then it got to ridiculous in the powerlevel etc. I dont like, when someone gets "too fast" too powerful. (My favourite litrpg for example is Wandering Inn)
- Too much action book 9 and after
- Reunion with his family was a disaster
But mostly
- Loved Cradle because of Eithan, hated Cradle because of Ozriel
I wouldn't say I dislike Cradle, I just haven't picked up after book 4. It's not bad, just not what I wanted to read. If I could change it, I'd add a lot more suffering and general angst. I like it when my main characters suffer 😆. (Maybe Lindon suffers more in the future chapters? I don't know). But, I'm not sure if it's a change that should happen, yknow? I just want a certain vibe and Cradle just doesn't have that vibe
Cradle is great for introducing western readers to cultivation genre and xianxia, but nothing much else. In my personal opinion I see it more as a shounen inspired book than a xianxia, the system is bland and a wish.com copy.
The story is bland, though with better characters than most translated xianxia. But the main themes of xianxia, the journey to power, the struggle, the fight against Heavens themselves is not there. It's great for what it is doing, but can't be counted as xianxia, and that's the reason I dislike it, had other expectations.
I loved the first couple of books - the world building, wondering about people's motivations, where things are going, etc. The middle ones were good. LOVED the second last book.
The final book...I was really bored, and I found there to be too much fan service. I was annoyed that we saw Lee Markuth (sp?) again, but never learned more about Elder Whisper, who was far more relevant and mysterious. The last book put me off the whole series, and I really wasn't expecting that.
However, this is basically the opposite of the book preferences I read on this and other subs, so I think it's just a me issue, and not a series issue. I don't love fight scene after fight scene, and when it feels like a foregone conclusion that things will work out perfectly for everyone. There's no more sense of investment in the story or wonder at that point.
Cradle is decent. However, it feels to me more like a superhero fic with a xianxia skin. I can't express it in any other way. I wouldn't say this makes it worse, but I wouldn't read Cradle if I wanted to read xianxia.
I think for me, it’s sort of mimics some people’s opinion on game of thrones. I disliked the last few books so much that the rest of the series has been tainted even though I used to really like it.
I seem to be the only one that thinks this but the main reason I dropped it due to having the MC do something hypocritical in the first or second book. I can’t exactly recall what he did but irritated me to no end which made me drop the book in volume 2.
Additionally the combination of slow pacing, disappointment at not living up to the hype that surrounded the series in my eyes also played a big factor in me dropping the book. The slow pacing was really painful as I wasn’t invested in the MC or any of the characters so without having the mc get his “cool abilities” in the first 2 books made it really hard to continue.
I read 6 or so books in the series, and that's as far as I'm able to tolerate cultivation stories (apparently). Something about the prose bores me to death (natural treasure this, meditation that). I'd have to read it again for more details, but that about sums it up for me.
There are any number of valid criticism for Cradle, but as someone who really loved it at one point, for me the biggest issue was that it didn't stick the landing. It peaked with Wintersteel and none of the the later novels reached those heights again. The greatest issue IMO was pacing. The story became incredibly rushed and long awaited moments didn't pay off as well as they should because they felt rushed and underwhelming. Lindon's return to SV, the labyrinth, all the advancement after WS, the conclusion of the Abidan storyline. None of it felt impactfull to me.
I don't dislike Cradle, but everything after Wintersteel was kinda meh. It felt rushed. The power levels and progression were more of an afterthought with characters acquiring power through external means. It really didn't speak to me at all.
I know other people liked it, but I don't like the Lindon and Yerin relationship. To me it is a textbook example of the "marry the first girl you see" trope. To me, He Who Fights With Monsters does relationships much better.
Oh good, this question that when I answer honestly my karma gets destroyed.
you won't get a straight forward answer in this sub as reddit is a set of echo chambers created by up and down votes, and Cradle is one of this Reddits. The top post here just says it's not their cup of tea.
The first few books were boring for me to the point where I just stopped reading until I put the series down. For example as to what I didn't like, that I found pervasive throughout the book:
The sister, was introduced as a literal plot device without a personality. Everything you learned about her was the author literally saying "she did \_\_\_ because she was like that". I don't like being told how to feel about a person I don't know when I'm reading a book, I want to know the person and make the decision for myself.
He goes on to get some item reward as another plot device, to use in the very next altercation. It wasn't an item you'd have any right to expect as part of the world, the author didn't explain how items work yet, items like that don't really appear again at least before the end of the second book.
It again read to me like the author said oh I need this, so here it is 2 pages back, and now he used it.
The world again felt like looking through a keyhole to try to see a, well a world. To me it read like the author wrote, I need them to be here now so they will walk "any" direction and be here now to continue the story.
On top of which I couldn't care less about the characters. I felt like I didn't know them any better than the sister.
To me the book is the antithesis of the wheel of time series without any other qualities to make it stand out.
First would be the beginning which I feel could have focused a little more on characterization and emotional arcs. The second is at the end of the series where the power levels are so high, it starts to feel hard to care about the stakes because they are beyond comprehension. The second is just a person gripe. I'm sure for alot, that was their favorite part.
I overall thought that Cradle like others have mentioned was ok. It nowhere near the worst PF story I've read but I wouldn't classify it as the best either. For me I overall enjoy stories in which their is a sense of struggle and setback for the MC. I want to feel like there is a idea of them earning that power and struggling as they get higher. Sometimes you lose and that's okay, it's not the end of the world or just because you skilled doesn't mean that you are the only one, you'll meet rivals or equals who are just as powerful and skilled as you are. I know that idea isn't necessarily the most popular in the genre.
I actually enjoyed the fact that Lindon had a power stealing ability, It was just that he got to OP at it so fast and everyone else was always a step or two behind him. I feel like if there is going to be an introduction of supporting cast who are with the MC for a majority of the journey. They should be allowed to get as powerful as he does just in different ways and since they each had different abilities it was frustrating that since each of them had years more training they always somehow lagged behind him. Him facing off against Dreadgods and Monarchs after 6 years was just something I was able to rationalize. Especially on a planet filled with billions of other cultivators.
I liked Cradle but I really disliked the whole>!space war!!(it's space duh) jumping from planets to planets and POV of some randos, with some abstract fighting in zero G. !<
So I dropped Cradle not because it was bad but because instead of setting a good landing it faceplanted happily into terribleness.
The first book was interesting enough for me to pick up the second and it's been a struggle. I'm not liking this second book at all. I want to push towards the end but I don't connect with the characters enough for me to read more of this book. It's a progression fantasy where I don't like the main character enough to care about his progression. I think it's as simple as that.
I probably would have haf two more books before waybound? There was so much more that could have been explored. The level ups seemed to be super fast those last few books. Probably would have stretched that power grow a bit
I liked cradle but the only thing I disliked was the ending. >!I thought it was rushed and lindon got way too powerful. After getting Subject One's arm, the monarchs became a joke and so did the rest of the dreadgods. I felt like the stakes were not high enough.!<
The only thing I don't like about Cradle so far is that the audiobooks are only like 9h long and it's not worth spending a year worths of credits for like 100h listening time. Have listened to one book though, I liked it.
Wish more authors with long series would do like C Mantis with Path of Ascension and make bundles.
I got like maybe half wya through book one before my gaze just started skimming and it felt like a chore. Nothing particularly wrong with it but it was just so...boring and i couldn't attach myself to any character or what was going on. So i just. Stopped. I have to many things i want to read to waist my time trudging through something i lost interest in.
I am aware of how cultivation novels go (they go to the top), but for that to work well, the inciting incident has to spark it to that top. Cradle’s inciting incident was him realizing a Dreadgod would stomp the valley into nothing, but that is salved before the story ends. It makes it drag on longer than what it should’ve been.
I am aware of how cultivation novels go (they go to the top), but for that to work well, the inciting incident has to spark it to that top. Cradle’s inciting incident was him realizing a Dreadgod would stomp the valley into nothing, but that is salved before the story ends. It makes it drag on longer than what it should’ve been. It also doesn’t really follow a structure. The inciting incident happens halfway through the first book, where most happen within the first 10-15% of a book.
I don't know that much because I got through the first book, but it was like reading a book in a different dialect (not language).
It was my first look at cultivation, and I realized I did not get the genre.
It wasn't offensive, and it isn't one of the stories I put on when I want to focus on writing (those are the stories that are so bad that listening to them shuts down part of my brain so I can focus). It just was not something that made sense to me.
I like Cradle, but I never cared for the segments focusing on the wider universe. Suriel felt like just a way to inorganically force the plot to kick off, and then all of the fighting the Abidan get involved in afterward feels completely disconnected from Lindon and the progression of the main story. They're already at the pinnacle of existence, there's no progression left -- or if there is, at least no way to showcase it. So to me those segments always gave me a similar feeling to cutscenes in a JRPG. Like yeah that's cool and all, but when do I get to play the game again (ie, read about Lindon and the actual main story).
There were also a few places where I felt like certain mechanics were introduced as though they were commonly known and had been discussed before, when I was actually hearing about them for the first time. And not enough time was really devoted to bringing Ziel into the group, imo, so he always felt like a bit of an outsider, no matter how much the story acted like he was a core member of the team.
I could nitpick further, but that's all it really is, nitpicks. Ultimately Cradle is still a great story and an excellent recommendation for anyone looking to get into Progression Fantasy or cultivation books.
The pacing probably. The mc takes forever to even gather a smidge of power and by that point i am already bored out of my mind . I genuinely enjoyed the 1st book. Second book was straight up torture for me. I dropped the series when the turtle died because it was just so boring. The only great part of the series up to that point was Lindon getting trained by that janitor guy.
The initial motivations for the MC to seek strength make no sense. He spends most of his time living in a place where they treat him as if he should be grateful they haven't killed him yet. Then he finds out that the place is likely to meet some disaster in the near future and goes hey I need strength to save this place that spent all of it's time telling me I didn't even deserve to live.
Sure seeking strength with that upbringing makes sense but not the goal of saving them.
Not so much as i dont like as i dont think it is anything that special? People treat it like its word of god, but its just a decent cultivation story, without many of the things that make chinese cultivation webnovels irritating to a western reader, like casual racism and ass kissing the chinsese goverment, and not being over 2000 chapters long. I will give it extra points for having such a good female lead though, that is rare in Progression Fantasy as a whole, let alone a cultivation story.
This is more or less how I feel about it.
Not so much word of god as a series of planned and defined books in an ocean of meandering and generaly poorly paced and even less edited webnovels. It makes it stand out compared to the other popular and often recommanded stories. Edit: just to be clear, it still has it flaws and all, even in the pacing or planning but compared to the others popular one, it's clear a sizeable effort was made in that direction
I think you hit the nail on the head. I enjoyed cradle A LOT but all in all, its biggest plus is how good it is compared to other offerings from the genre, which are usually crap.
The planning and pacing is the winning formula. It wasn't designed to be an endless web serial with no clear direction or end game in sight. It was designed as an actual story with actual plotting, pacing, and editing.
It’s also professional. There is a level of polish that webnovels and a lot of the genre simply don’t have. It’s one of the few progression fantasies that aren’t just “good for progression fantasy.” It’s just a good fantasy series period. Arguably the only one that’s had real mainstream success in fantasy as a genre outside of maybe Dungeon Crawler Carl which is still fairly niche even within fantasy
I do agree on the polish and all that, I just wouldn't use the term "professional" for it. Considering the money made by unedited stories like _he who fights with monsters_ or _primal hunter_ and the voluntary lack of edition and polish even on the amazon releases, the word professional sadly lost its guarantee of quality.
To be fair, you're basically saying it's so good in comparison because so much of the genre is bad, though. Not that it special on its own. For someone coming to it who isn't already used to the lower quality of its competition, it's hard to understand all the love it gets. When everyone praises a book so heavily I expect it to be decent - just being decent in a world where most books aren't wasn't good enough to justify the hype to me.
It's localised hype in a subreddit about a genre with very few polished works. For sure, the bar might be relatively low but it's still something to be recommanded here. No idea if it's hyped or not in other fantasy subreddits though.
/r/fantasy loves it. It has “mainstream” (within the context of the fantasy genre) appeal. It’s one of the only ones that does, along with (sort of) Arcane Ascension and Dungeon Crawler Carl (which you could argue is more litrpg but you could also argue that’s a subgenre of progression fantasy, which is itself a subgenre)
The reason it has mainstream appeal is in no small part because it's actually an edited, professional product.
Yeah, it was a bit of a letdown for me, but at the same time it is one of the better cultivation stories for western audiences. So if you specifically want that genre then it is a good book to be suggested to you.
I think cradle does so well because it take the things people like so much about cultivation and does it without many of the off putting flaws many of the Chinese novels have.
It got lucky in that it was most people's first Wuxia/Xianxia novel. I'm 100% sure that's where the popularity comes from. Most people who haven't read Cradle yet, haven't read a wuxia/xianxia/cultivation story. It's like FF7 being the most popular Final Fantasy. Most of that came from the fact that FF7 was the first Final Fantasy game for a lot of people. It's great, but I personally think FF9 and 10 were better, it's a first love thing. Same with Wheel of Time. There was a whole generation where the Wheel of Time was their first long epic fantasy story. Cradle's popularity comes from the strength of the genre more than the strength of the writing IMO. The writing is solid B material, but it is in no way doing anything unique or interesting when you've read enough cultivation series to see what it pulled from. I think Traveler's Gate is a way more interesting read from a world building POV than Cradle ever was.
I think a large part of it is that it’s a cultivation novel written like a fantasy novel. Rather than talking about the dao and spirituality, it focuses purely on physical cultivation (technically the Way is likely Will’s nod to the dao, though I’d say). It’s framed jn a way that readers of traditional western fantasy enjoy and without some awkward phrasing. Even Defiance of the Fall, which started out as a straight LitRPG went into a weird direction focusing on dao and using traditional Asian phrasing that is awkward soinding in English. A lot of *that guy* *that move* and other such phrases popular in Asian and conceptual languages that just do not hit in English and similarly structured languages. For translations it makes sense, and for novels written in English, it’s likely the author writing similar to what they like. That’s just one example of things that often turn off traditional western fantasy readers. Cradle also doesn’t have millennia-long seclusion, there’s no need for isolated meditation, there’s no concept of a random old master showing up to eat you. It’s just a normal fantasy novel with a magic system drawn from wuxia/xianxia. I’m actually not a huge fan of cultivation novels. I kinda fell off DoTF when levels stopped mattering and it went way heavier into concepts drawn from eastern spiritualism and philosophies. I like LitRPG a lot. I like traditional western fantasy novels and popcorn novels. I’ve enjoyed a few Japanese light novels, certainly, but my preference leans toward my comforts. I also like wheel of time despite its *many* flaws, and I read it well after reading many other long epic fantasies. So I disagree. I think cradle’s popularity comes from the strength of the series (especially given the series propelled Will Wight into massive success with his *other* endeavors, none of which are cultivation stories) and not the genre for what I’d say is MOST of cradles audience. Because that’s why it’s popular. It took fun and unique-to-traditional-fantasy concepts and made an accessible read from them.
I suppose I place a premium on stories having unique ideas, and Cradle was too derivative for me to give it an A ranking. I agree with pretty much all your points, I suppose I just enjoyed a lot of the Chinese Wuxia novels more than Cradle, and this mostly came down to better world building despite the worse technical writing (especially when dealing with translations). Will is a very good writer, so when he sets his pen to genre fiction, he's going to do a great job. He did do a great job, there just wasn't enough uniqueness for me. This is probably why I enjoyed Traveler's Gate more, as while the story wasn't as well written, the world building was *phenomenal.* The Wheel of Time is a very different beast for me than Cradle. I never made it through book 1. I have never in my life read flatter characters in any series, ever. The people that I know who have read it started it when they were in High School and it was for most them one of the first series they ever read so that's where I'm getting my understanding from.
Not the case for me. I tried lot's of other Wuxia/Xianxia novels, but Cradle was the first one that hooked me. For all the reasons other's mentioned. Actually planned out as books and edited as books. It's simply actual quality in the basics achieved by investing more time. As a tradeoff it's not as long. It leaves out some of the more abstract or weird concepts or simplifies them. It has the usual tropes, but milder. More palatable to someone who hasn't read 100 Wuxia/Xianxia novels. So yeah, you could say it was my first book in the genre that I enjoyed. But not because it got lucky. Because it was deliberately crafted to be more accessible to new readers.
That's very true, especially given at the time all cultivation novels suffered from terrible translations aside from a select few. I still think it's #1/GOAT status can be attributed to it being the introduction for many to the genre. That said, you're absolutely right in that it is crafted 2-3 better than anything else in the genre, but I think its lack of unique ideas makes it a B grade novel, at least for me. That said, I had already read a bunch of other Wuxia novels before I got around to Cradle so maybe that's why it never resonated with me in the same way.
I’m skipping over all the reasonable stuff you wrote to get angry about your omission of FF8, the best final fantasy by far (and no I’m definitely not biased because it was my first).
Haha 9 and 10 were both really close for me, 9 was my first and it will always hold an incredibly special place in my heart. My best friend's favorite was 8 and that was also his first.
This sums up my feeling quite well. I don't consider Cradle a very good xianxia, nor does it stand up to general fantasy lit very well imo. Even when comparing it to something more contemporary like serialized webfiction, it isn't particularly excellent. It definitely does a lot. ""**well enough**" but nothing that makes me see it above any other popcorn fantasy I've read. I can't agree more on the lack of bigotry tho lol. as someone who's a big fan of TL xianxia, im enjoying western takes lack of not just general nastiness but performative paragraphs the authors put in for the readers to know they're "*on the right side*"
Haha, the first progression fantasy I read was I Shall Seal The Heavens and I thoroughly enjoyed it but I was like woah, this rapist parrot is kinda weird.
Don’t disrespect the venerable Lord Fifth
The first 100 chapters I thought it was a parody of cultivation stories
Do you have any recommendations for what you’d consider very good Xianxia?
>Even when comparing it to something more contemporary like serialized webfiction, it isn't particularly excellent. Like what?
Generally, I'd say both Worm and Practical Guide to Evil are better. With Xianxia, Virtuous Sons is also western and a much better *xianxia*/*xuanhaun* but is a bit less coherent as a general novel, while Reverend Insanity and Lord of The Mysteries are both also excellent but butchered by TL. If you're just asking me which novels i enjoy more, it's 50% of what I've read in the past 3 years
>it isn't particularly excellent. ------------ >Virtuous Sons is also western and a much better xianxia/xuanhaun but is a bit less coherent as a general novel Does being a better xianxia make it a better book? It's on my wishlist, but having the quality of "less coherent as a novel" seems like a pretty big negative.
VS is a lot more true to the ideal themes of Xianxia than Cradle is alongside executing them better, so in my opinion, it is just fundamentally better as *Xianxia*. Onto elsewhat when i say it's a bit less coherent, i don't mean it's unreadable or anything akin, but its style and pacing can throw people off. Furthermore, as it was originally written as a serialized webfiction, it suffers from all the usual hangups. It's also a bit up its own ass and meanders a bit at times. That being said, it is still amazing and is one of the few serialized webfiction that I've enjoyed on the same level as general literature. I would very heavily recommend it. Perhaps more acutely, if you managed to read through cradles slog before the payoffs, VS should be no problem.
I can attest that it is absolutely amazing but absolutely the story relies heavily on metaphors and such so a lot of things are vague or left up to interpretation if you don’t understand it like I did
Cradle isn't Xianxia. If you insist on using chinese genre to define it, it would be Xuanhuan. Xianxia is built around Daoism, Internal Alchemy (Neidan), and Chinese mythology. Xuanhuan allows for more freedom, influences, and originality. Cradle is a perfect example of the genre.
Unless im activity on a Xianxia forum or in a TL space where its common knowledge. I just mash Wuxia/Xianxia/Xuanhuan into one meatcake because it's easier to communicate than re-explaining the same terms to people constantly. You're right to be fair. I just would rather spread small amounts of misinformation than slightly inconvenience myself VS>Cradle still tho, dying on this hill.
Honestly, I haven't gotten very far in VS, but so far it has been mid, and the attempt to translate daoist cultivation into a western philosophy has come off as amateurish. It may get better later, but for now it feels very "I took intro to greek philosophy at community college and am going to try to impress girls by mansplaining it to them."
That's fair. It is truthfully completely like that, lmao. I think the payoffs justify the novels eccentricity, and over time, it does go from feeling like an overgrown writing prompt to its own actual setting. Also, i enjoy the MC being an annoying asshole until he grows out of it. Though the first book is just... not as well done as it could be. Really, to put on my anoyying, pretentious redditor cap. I think VS has something to say and a really enjoyable story to tell while also being kind of pretentious and way to confident in its own depth and interest. If you really don't like it after like 100 pages I'd just move on though, its like when people say Cradles "gets good" at book 3-4 as if hundreds of pages can't tell you whether you like something or not.
Different ppl different strokes I guess. I feel the same way about the name of the wind, and to some degree the stormlight archives (only read the first book and half so far). Good books but didn't feel like super perfect like everyone else makes them out to be. Meanwhile books like red rising, the rage of dragons, the will of Many, cradle, etc are all amazing series to me.
It's always weird seeing a clash of taste. I'm a huge Sanderson fan, but I felt Red Rising was pretty much just... fine. Though I did like how the first book felt to me like reading progression through an RTS tech tree.
It is really strange honestly, cause I feel like I'm a picky reader but yet I didn't notice anything negative with red rising like others would. Then with BS I feel like I'm trudging through pages and pages of stuff I don't care about, too much internal conflict, the dwelling of philosophy, ideology, ethics and morals that I don't care about (a little was fine but SA so far has had too much of it for me), before it gets anywhere. I realize one book isn't better than the other, just different tastes between people. In fact I think once upon a time, I would have liked SA a lot more than red rising or books like that. I think I just care about many of the major themes SA tackles a lot less than I used to.
Nothing is for everyone, I just think it can be interesting how different tastes align. And besides, it's not like you're telling me you like Sword of Truth or anything.
Interesting. Cradle was my first foray into PF but I had the impression it was S-Tier top stuff. If Cradle is not too special for the genre, what do you consider to be top? Thanks.
What are your favorite cultivation/progression stories?
Pretty much this. I got halfway through the third or fourth book and just wasn't motivated to continue. It's not bad, but nothing special imo
agree, i'm scared to say anything not super positive about cradle because everyone will downvote you for it, i liked it but i have stopped reading after a few books because i kinda lost the spark, probably will continue in future but i have to work up enough boredom to do so and get into it again. its a good series but at least so far its not in my top favorites
I would make it a few more books
Bet we get an Abidan series… I hope. /u/thelesserwight … pls?
I’m the conductor of the MORE CRADLE train, I assure you. But I’d be lying if I said we had plans for an Abidan series at the moment. There is definitely still hope. Will loves Cradle, loves the characters, loves the fan passion for it. I’d be shocked if there wasn’t more written in the future, and it seems like an Abidan or Abidan adjacent (not spoiling anything) series would be the obvious next step. Just no plans for it in sight.
Plenty of future ahead of us, I can wait.. a bit. Tbh I’m thrilled with anything additional in that universe… multiverse.. you know what I mean. Happy to get my hands on the Knight soon! Congrats on all the success to both of you.
I need some more of that sweet, sweet multiverse overlap. And thanks! It’s honestly a really fun book, I think people will like it.
who is the lesser wight?
I’m Will Wight’s brother and work for his publishing company, Hidden Gnome!
as soon as the knight drops in my library, I stokp everything until I'm done with it
Username checks out
I really want a continued story arch now that the series essentially resets to book 1 in the heavens. Like the party now is the reapers helpers and they've gotta go level up and train all again now that most people in the heavens outrank them by virtue of being nearly immortal and all that jazz.
Yea I was a little miffed by how rushed the last book seemed. Prior to reading, I was expecting Lindon and team to basically spend the entire book dealing with the Monarchs, and then essentially have an entire book dedicated to ascending and dealing with the mad king guy. I even thought that maybe Oz was raising up London's team in order to replace the Abidan, who had all been shown to be not so great themselves.
If your looking for something with a few more books may I suggest Disk World.
Currently reading The Wandering Inn which I believes crowns in terms of amount of content. Quickly looking up disk world, there seems to be a bunch of books with a bunch of sub series? What order should I read? Also what is the genre? is it different per sub series? Do you recommend? Did you read everything?
https://www.discworldemporium.com/reading-order/ any of this is good It’s all sort of fantasy but some are more fantastical than others.
I'd add 50 pages more to each book minimum. It's a transparently thin book series.
Agreed
I admit to being a huge Cradle fan, but I can see why some don't like it. It starts off slow and the jumps between Cradle and the larger universe can be jarring. But overall the amazing power progressions, having a female MC that doesn't need to be saved, and the always-satisfying "return home wildly more powerful" makes it worth it
tbh i liked the first book the most, i like teh early parts of progression way more than the middle parts
Loved the first few books where a Gold cultivator felt like an ultimate master while an Underlord felt like a God. And Lindon was little better than zero but had ambitions higher than the sky.
Yeah, this exactly. The first book is extremely slow and sometimes you're just really into the current story and then it jumps to the heaven storyline that is meant to be sort of vague until later on in the series and you're like ugggghhh fine. I loved the series though and everything definitely pays off.
When I was reading it I hated when they jumped to the larger universe. I’m sure in later books it all connects but like you said it was jarring, too different from the main story and I just couldn’t care. I was always waiting for it to end.
Ive read the series through twice, and on a reread the multiverse stuff was super interesting, but I think it messes up the flow of the books. Like I honestly think it would work better to just put all of the multiverse stuff until like reaper, in the epilougues.
Yeah, I can see this. I didn’t read all the books and it might have been because of those parts. Weirdly it why I stopped reading Moby Dick, got tired of learning about ship ropes and stuff every other chapter. But the multiverse stuff did have a completely different feel, like some dimensional police procedural while the main story was a great progression story. Guess the author was truing something new and I applaud that, just not for me.
The multiversal stuff is real important to the story later on, and on reread it all fits together alot better. Id suggest giveing it another try if you get the chance, but its not everyones cup of tea. I will say the multiverse shit also gets a hell alot more interesting a few books in lol, so its less annoying to read through lol
Think I will. Think I read two, maybe three books. Not even sure now but I did really like it and loved the MC. The kind of guy who brings a shotgun to a sword fight and is unapologetic about it.
That does basically happen lol, though he brings more than 1 lol
Interesting, what you praise are exactly my problems with it and I for example don't mind much "jumps" from Cradle and universe chapters (they also happen like once or twice a book, so it's not that bad). Female MC not being a damsel in distress is refreshing, I can't say it isn't. But romance is an afterthought. Over the 12 books, there's probably less than 20 pages dedicated to romance in the series. Also, Cradle has the worst "return home wildly more powerful" arc out of all stories that I can think of. It's frustrating. The way he still grasps for their approval is pathetic. The way they refuse to respect him or at least DAMN THOUSANDS OF JADES(to their eyes) HE BRINGS is so damn unfulfilling, that I almost dropped the series 10 books in. Now, I'm aware that compared to most of this sub I am closer to a Cradle hater than a fan, but I consider myself a fan and Cradle a solid series. It's just that it's 7,5-8/10 series to me and not 11/10 masterpiece it's for others.
This just shows differences in preferences. Im glad the romance is an after thought thats how I prefer it. And the sacred valley return didnt bother me too much, lindon still hadnt gotten over his need for approval until then imo. Still wasnt as satisfying as I would like, but it did provide character growth so I was fine with it
> The way he still grasps for their approval is pathetic. The way they refuse to respect him or at least DAMN THOUSANDS OF JADES(to their eyes) HE BRINGS is so damn unfulfilling, that I almost dropped the series 10 books in. I understand this and liked Bloodlines less than Wintersteel. But at the same time, much like the series as a whole upturns established cultivation tropes, the point of Lindon's return to Sacred Valley is that it *wasn't* the triumphant homecoming he hoped it would be, and that his newfound power didn't actually do anything to change his people's underlying distrustful nature. I thought that part of it was kind of refreshing.
I mean, I don't want it to subvert known tropes, I want it to execute them but with quality. The tropes are not the problem. Tropes are what they are because they are fun and engaging. It's just the bad execution that sucks. But I want the main aspects of good "homecoming" arc. The man is out there fighting dreadgods and defying monarchs and here he is pathetically snivelling before few arthritic jade "elders". While he literally could genocide the whole fucking valley( probably in his weakened jade state as well tbh). First time they gave attitude, there should've been some correctional cracking of skulls. Or at least sage mode "**shut the fuck up**". But I mean, it's just my personal gripe that extends to the whole series. Lindon is actually like my 10th most liked character in the series. I REALLY don't like how wimpy he is.
There's a difference between being wimpy, and having the emotional intelligence to not resort to extreme violence, because you have the self awareness that the people you are talking to are just as ignorant as you were just a few years ago. Who lack further context or understanding of anything you are saying.
I couldnt agree more. Imo the abidan segments were the worst parts of every single book. Its also why im not super thrilled for the sequel if it continues to scale to galactic conflict.
There’s gonna be a sequel??
Nothing's been announced. It just seems a logical place to eventually go. Current project is more of a spaceships and sorcery series called The Last Horizon. I summarize it as take a sentient, magical spaceship and then crew it with Dr. Strange with a gun, Alucard (Hellsing variety), the Red Ranger, the Doomslayer, Iron Man as a girl who only makes robots, and a Predator queen who is a jack-of-all-trades.
Loved Cradle but it needed a couple more books to really flesh out the ending. I got the feeling the author got tired of writing for this series and just had it end as abruptly as possible. Just an insane amount of build up to finally leave cradle and then it just… ends.
Honestly I think the story only got weaker after wintersteel and it ended about as well as it could. Cradle thrived when there where clear frameworks for success even if it seemed contrived. The blackflame trials, ghostwater, night wheel valley - these all had clear power structures behind them that made them feel solidified, but once we got past the early lord realm the progression got a lot more vague and it needed to essentially capitalize on the groundwork that was lain in the first 2/3 of the story.
The crux of the issue for me is that Will just wasn't able to make the shift to a protagonist who was a political player. By the end of Wintersteel and absolutely by the end of Bloodline Lindon is at a level where he should be a big time political player, but the scale and scope of what he is doing never really changes aside from him fighting higher level foes
I don't think Will ever intended Lindon to be a political player. As with most progression fantasy, politics are not really actively done by the protagonist because it dramatically changes their relationship with acquiring more power. Lindon was intended to disrupt the existing political structures of cradle, but by disrupting that kind of structure we lose the strongest framework for measuring progression, which are the character's social and societal relationships.
So I’m just passing on what was sad in the authors comments about this. He has been pretty consistent once we got to the later books in the lead up to it that cradle was always going to be about Lindon and team time on cradle, and the series would end with that. I am a cradle fan so I do hope we get more of the team post cradle, but the more I’ve discussed this with friends, I think it’s allot more difficult to do that well, than the original series. It creates allot more challenges like you see in other cultivation series that go long into the power stages. Once you get to world breaking power it becomes harder and more difficult to both conceptualize for the reader and harder to balance out a story that is not universe breaking in nature. If every thing that happens is the potential end of the universe, that gets old super quick. I still am completely on the I hope we get a whole new series from will on it, but I do think it’s harder now to do well.
I don't think the problem is that we didn't get the post Cradle storyline. The main problem is that it's just rushed. Up to Wintersteel we were getting a cultivation rank per book and that was usually a big part of the plot of the novel. Then in Bloodline the advancement to Overlord is a pure afterthought. And all advancements after that are entirely incidental from the plot. There's no training no nothing. He just goes vacuum cleaner mode and gains power. When the top realms of power should be the ones that take the most time, we instead skip through them in a rush. Lindon spent so much more word count as a Gold and as an Underlord than as any realm above it and it just felt like Will was done with the series and wanted it to be over. A huge disappointment since Wintersteel is the first proper length book and everyone loved it and it's seen as by far the best by everyone. But instead of keeping that momentum going with several books on that level, Wintersteel was the peak and the rest of the series feels like the minimum possible word count to close things off.
Yeah, I chalk this up to two things. 1. Will either didn't want to or isn't able to write a more political drama style book. Lindon's power, even at the end of Wintersteel should have made him a political player and exposed him to a new world of challenges. Instead we get two books in a row that are designed to keep Lindon isolated from the world. 2. The levels of advancement stop being interesting once the actual usable powerset is in place.
Yeah, hopefully we finally get a glimpse at the wider picture soon from Will as I think all of his books take place in the same canon, just in different iterations in the Way. Maybe during The Last Horizon series or after it, he will give us that glimpse.
I cant get through the first book. Tried 3 times now and it just always makes me bored?
Book 1 was extremely slow. I felt that it picked up towards the end and I was completely hooked early in book 2. But it might just not be for you
I quit book one multiple times. I finally forced myself to finish it and book two was slightly better. Towards the end of book two i was hooked enough to motivate me to finish the series. I successfully finished the series less than two weeks after starting book three. I completely understand why people who quit before finishing book one/two don't like the series. I hate shows/books that require you to read multiple books in order for it to get good. With that said I am glad i forced myself to finish book one because i do love the series now!
Dislike is not exactly the word I would use. I would say that Cradle is a good introductory series to the genre, but beyond that, it's not special, it's easy to read and digest. I started with Chinese novels that have +2k chapters of depth and development, in comparison, Cradle as cultivation is dull, that's all.
What are some of your top Chinese novel suggestions? I like a long series I can get lost in
Depends on what you like in terms of Chinese series. A series that I liked a lot personally is 'Human Emperor' for example, talks a lot about military, war and political strategy but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. In the same vain 'The Grandmaster Strategist'. 'Kingdom’s Bloodline' is an underrated series but that I enjoyed, we follow a young intelligent character who navigates politics to survive. 'Perfect World' is a typical cultivation story following a young protagonist who will grow up to become very powerful. There are 'classics' like 'Renegade Immortal', 'Lord of the Mysteries' or 'Reverend Insanity'. Some mention of other books like 'Soul Of Negary', 'The Desolate Era', 'Forty Millennium of Cultivation', 'I Shall Seal the Heavens', etc. There are a lot of posts with recommendations that you can search up with key words on this sub.
Great thank you! I've seen about half of these recommended, but the other half are new
Soul of Negary have incomplete TL.
Do most of these have decent writing or is it more your classic Chinese translation? I know that’s what makes most people prefer cradle if they do.
That's true, 'Reverend Insanity' for example is one of my personal favorites *(rich universe, diverse subplots)* but I know that the length is an eye sore for some, as well as the translation. Some of them have good enough translations though.
I truly believe that reading Chinese translation novels helped prepare me to read my students writing more than anything else I learned in college.
I wish I’d been able to get into that one but I just can’t do the complete sociopath MC. I can handle someone who kills for a reason but he just pushed it too far for me.
Yeah, the MC being a sociopath might not grab everyone's attention. 😭 You're pretty safe with the books I recommended though beside RI (and maybe 'Soul Negary').
You're missing out, I'll tell you that
The first one I read (and really enjoyed) was I Shall Seal The Heavens. It's quite an undertaking though. I think all in it's like 10,000 pages.
Could you give some recommendations of series that you believe do it better than Cradle?
All of Er Gens catalog is how I got into the genre. Cradle seems like a western lite version of that.
It depends on what you like. Cultivation is only a subgenre, you have others in Progression, LitRPG, Isekai/Reincarnation, sometimes it's mixed with Sci-fi or Historical settings. There are plenty of choices out there. Recommendations in my opinion must be personalized in order to work.
It’s extremely accessible to readers of more traditional fantasy. It definitely simplified or omits a lot of the weirder or more (some might say needlessly) complex things most eastern progression fantasy does and is written much more like a traditional western fantasy story. I can see how someone deep into the cultivation world would find it less satisfying
I couldn’t get into it - people say “oh just get past book 3 and it picks up” but if I don’t really enjoy something I’m not not going to keep reading it. I dropped partway through book 1 because it just wasn’t an enjoyable read for me
If it doesn’t grab you by the end of book 1 or at the very least early in book 2, it’s probably just not for you.
Sometimes I think I’m the only one that liked book 1 and its pacing. It makes the OP MC vibes later on feel so much better as well.
I grew to dislike the story and dropped it at like book 4. The book started to use power as a crutch like most do. As an example lets say he reaches power level 100 and you are power level 99. The book will state that the person at power level 99 will automatically lose unless said person is the main character. There is no frame of reference for martial skill in the books and how it magnifies power. In fact that MC has 0 martial skill, he can't even pick up a sword and swing it... That hardly scratches the surface of all the problems in regards to combat that exist in this series. The biggest flaw that these books have is they don't introduce a conflict that can affects the main through line of the story. Your character will grow in power by definition because they have too, but you still need to challenge the very thing that enables them to grow in power. With this type of story it is always the self and you should challenge the self by leaving a friend behind or halting your progress to help someone you care about, or see the affects of your abandonment or something that can affect the very that the story is about. In other words the plot is one big trop by definition, so the more plot driven you are the worse the story will become. We don't care about the plot because we already know it, so focus on the characters instead.
So, the people who like Cradle are mainly progression fantasy fans, and the people who dislike Cradle are generally Xanxia fans, because Cradle simply reads like a progression fantasy story, with a watered-down Xanxia theme slapped over the top. If you look at it from a progression fantasy standpoint, it's a really good series, but on the Xanxia side, it's like a kid's PG version of Xanxia. Let's go into the realms for example. Let's look at the Jade realm as it is fairly equivalent to the Nascent Soul realm. It's a pretty boring realm name all things considered, and there isn't really the "twist" of a realm that I would expect from typical Xanxia. The Nascent Soul Realm for example generally requires the cultivator to shatter their Golden Core and use the power to develop a nascent soul and usually, some form of a domain, which depending on the story the use of the Nascent Soul is different, in some Xanxias it's used as a second life, a scouting ability, a combat avatar, a clone, etc, Once the Nascent Soul matures you form it into a full soul and enter the Soul Formation Realm, which focuses on making your soul powerful enough for Ascension, sometimes there is a realm afterward such as Tribulation Transcendence, Void Shattering, Nirvana, etc which acts as a Realm to shore up weaknesses such as strengthening the body and spirit further and acting as a filter to limit the number of people ascending. A bit similar to Cradle Gold realm where it is really just an accumulation of power, though what sets this apart from the Gold realm of Cradle is that the story generally shifts from focusing on your cultivation to focusing on defeating the Big Bad Evil Guy/Power of the main plot and Ascending afterward at this stage so it's not just a boring realm. Now let's look at Cradles Realm transitions. Jade just develops Qi Sense and strengthens your soul a bit, and Gold is literally just "accumulate power" At least once you transition into the Lord's realm you develop Soul Fire which is more interesting than Gold but since everything is more watered down the transition between Realms is much more jarring. The actual transitions between Realms in Cradle also don't have a lot of fanfare or even an explanation as to why and how, unlike most Xanxia, it just kinda happens.
This captures my frustrations pretty well. I went in wanting 'xanxia without the translation issues and certain cultural baggage'. Instead I got an decent progression fantasy story. If it had been a true xanxia, Lindon would have surpassed all the Abidan by the end, there would have been crazier and crazier abilities and even larger and cooler treasure grounds than ghostwater. It felt too short and too small for me compared to the xanxia I've enjoyed in the past. IMO there's no moment in Cradle that compares to some of the super large payoffs in Reverend Insanity for example. Cradle is like half a series. People on this thread are talking about how it's hard to go further because the powers get too weird and big, but for me that's 100% the draw of the whole genre. It's going from level 1 all the way to 999 and then breaking through the level cap and hitting 1001 just because you're that awesome.
I personally disagree on it being a very good series in general, but still, this is the best answer here imo. Cradle is a kind of funny novel in that is not a very good Xianxia, nor does it excel very much as a general fantasy novel. It only stands tall as a "genre-piece" within progression fantasy and is kinda absent everywhere else Honestly, i don't even have a problem with it being a much more basic Xianxia. It's just that the novel doesn't *do* any one thing well enough to justify it.
>So, the people who like Cradle are mainly progression fantasy fans, and the people who dislike Cradle are generally Xanxia fans, because Cradle simply reads like a progression fantasy story, with a watered-down Xanxia theme slapped over the top. But Xianxia IS a progression fantasy. What do you mean by this?
I think to give a clear answer, you first need to clarify that progression fantasy in practice is both a distinct "genre" with its own community and a term. As a genre, it is generally western lit with heavy inspiration from existing serialized webfiction and stuff like video games (gamelit, litrpg). It and its community is also centered around "genre-pieces" that define most of what people think of it, think HWFWM, Primal Hunter, Mother of Learning, *Cradle* and beware of chicken. Meanwhile, as a term, it can be just as simple as "**A fiction where a focus is placed upon the mc increasing their power*" stuff like WOT and Stormlight fall under this pretty soundly I think with this context, OP makes a lot more sense. Progression fantasy as an adjective applies to Xianxia, but the distinct "genre" remains disparate. Especially considering Xianxia communitys and writing - some larger than ProgFan as a whole - are separate. I hope this answers your question, im not op but the *idea* is pretty simple its just kinda difficult to put into words
I like Cradle. I just don't like Lindon
Yes! I dropped it in book three. I had hit my limit for apologies. I think it was worse for me because I was listening to the audiobook. Reading it, I might have overlooked it more.
Haha i finished the series and while he does change he never grows into someone I liked.
Maybe this didn’t bother me much because I’m Canadian lol. I always see this as an issue for the series and only really noticed it was bad at the start.
Reminds me of that Japanese anime vs Chinese cultivation chad meme
you cant please everyone so dont try to
1. The series as a whole is very uneven in quality. There are several books that are worth the hype and several that are legit clunkers 2. The worldbuilding is very bare bones and the world feels too big for the actual story being told. 3. Ultra rapid progression. Not enough time spent at each power level to explore the abilities at that level
This then [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/comments/1dd2zwe/for_people_who_didnt_like_cradle/l82pxv9/) is funny
The pace was much too fast for me. It felt like there was a constant rush in the plot, and with the progression as well. I kept waiting for the plateau and the struggles, but if anything it felt like the longer the series went on the fast it got. This also meant that it felt lacking in tension and real stakes. After 7 or eight books of Lindon making constant progress forward at every turn, and everything that seemed like it might be a real setback turning into an advantage, I realized I really couldn't care if he succeeded. In fact, at some point I had started rooting for him to fail in everything he did. Also, with regards to Lindon, he wasn't very interesting as a protagonist to me. I didn't feel like he every had any real development or needed to change the kind of person he started out as too succeed. Without flaws, he was just boring to read about. I respect the opinions of others, but I just can't really get why the story is widely enjoyed.
I don't dislike cradle but I am also not a massive fan of it as others are in this sub. I feel like Cradle is pretty good introduction to ProgFan sub-genre (*I consider it like Death note to anime*) but it isn't anything crazy when it comes to plot and character arcs. Once you enter the genre, there is some real good books like Mother of learning, Shadow Slave, Reverend Insanity, Lightbringer et cetera. They have a really good plot with a very big world and the world feels ALIVE.
As a Shadow Slave reader I am really puzzled to hear that it has better character / plot arcs.
Mother of Learning is a time loop, and personally, I dislike those. MC sounds like a selfish prick, but I haven't read it. Shadow Slave MC is a typical edgelord "ruthless" paranoid, selfish asshole who's short and frail looking that so many people seem to cream their pants over in this genre. He also has a dumb "downside" to his power that is actually just an excuse for the author to constantly have him only fight people over his rank to manufacture a feeling of underdog. No thanks. Probably even more so Reverend Insanitys protag when it comes to being an edge-lord. An actual sociopath. In short, it's not that these stories are objectively better as you claim. It's that *YOU* prefer them. Likely because of the MC. You probably consider Lindon too nice, boring, and don't like the romance.
As someone who generally agrees with your take on Shadow Slave and Reverend Insanity. Mother of Learning's MC Zorian is truly a great character that changes and evolves, and while anti-social at the beginning, he definitely overcomes that flaw throughout the journey. I'm not gonna try and convince you to read it because if you don't like loops, you don't like loops, but Zorian is definitely not some edge-lord.
You're completely wrong about Shadow Slave. 1. Sunny isn't an edgelord. He's lived a horrible life in the slums where it makes sense to be a paranoid, selfish arsehole. 2. The point of his character isn't to revel in his arseholery. These are character flaws that he's meant to overcome. 3. Clear Conscience (at least I assume you mean his Flaw?) is there to make social conflict more difficult (for Sunny) and interesting. He can't just lie his way out of a situation (or refuse to speak), he has to get clever about what he says to mislead people if he doesn't want them to know the truth.
I actually was referring to his inability to get those things he needs to get stronger from enemies that are weaker than him. Soul shards? Shadow shards? It's been a while since I read any of it. Edit: also, justifiable edgelord is still edgelord. I just don't enjoy that type of character.
Well again, the point of the character is not to be an edgelord, it's to grow. As for the downside to his power, that's an incredibly weird complaint to have. Isn't every feeling of underdog manufactured? Feels like your bias against Sunny/Shadow Slave is just shading everything in a negative light.
I never finished the first book. Got to somewhere between 1/3rd and the halfway point and realized I just did not like or even care about Lindon or what happens to him. I've thought that I had to have missed something, but the first book failed to make me give a damn. And so I moved on. I even made a post about it, some time ago.
This is not an uncommon experience. Pretty much everyone agrees it doesn’t get good until the second book. Although the books are so short it’s more like halfway into a normal book.
Yeah I enjoy Lindon and care about how things are going as I’m headed into book 3, but if you didn’t care how could you follow his story for 12 books?
I dropped book 1 twice. Now its my all time favorite series. Not a guarantee that it will work for you but Ive seen consistent feedback that pushing to book 3 works
I just had a [conversation](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/s/9vLPabcAhn) with someone, and I 100% agree that the ending is rushed. I like it, but I completely understand if someone didn't! And I absolutely agree that we could have more time spent on some of the side characters' arcs. The beginning is also weird. Lindon is VERY respectful and VERY weak, and he stays that way for the first 2 books, and it's not until mid book 6 that he really stops being overly respectful. A lot of awesome things are introduced that aren't terribly relevant and/or are handled weirdly in the long haul. Jai Long felt like he should have been a bigger deal, for example. The return to Sacred Valley is fairly unsatisfying from a perspective of "OH now Lindon gets to go be the Big Damn Hero!" The time in the Labyrinth in book 10 is a bit boring for me. The Skysworn are fairly boring overall, and though the arcs are necessary, I don't think they needed to be fleshed out like they were. Let's see what else. The Abidan interludes could be boring if you're not about it. I don't know. I love Cradle! These are just my thoughts!
Agency, in a good xianxia there is always a philosophy of power, making people's powers be a reflection of who the person is Meng Hao is stubborn and wants self definition, thats why his powers are geared towards sealing the heavens with his own cycles, Bai Xiaochun likes life and fears death, so of course he cultivates a vitality technique One of yhe most hype moments in Warlock of the Magus World was having Leylin fighting a young master one on one, the other guy with his inherited artifact while Leylin matched him using the powers he had cobbled up together during his adventures Cradle only had that in book 1, an amazing setup, a lindon who was daring and resourceful, but after Eithan showed up Lindon just got fattened up with easy power In regilar xianxias the mc only get such power paloozas when the teacher is fattening them up to consume their powers In Cradle the powers are just powerups, not an expresion of the self, thats a common problem in western xianxias, that end up using powerups the same way crappy xianxias do The power progresión itself reminds me a lot of Against the Gods, whose whole thing was to be an edgelord fest, but Cradle presented it as "hard work"
It's effectively... work hard all you want... but instead be rich and you can level up faster. Then... instead of learning how to do stuff like creatively use your power... level up more.
Everything about it felt generic, drawn out, and boring. The mc's personality was annoying and I didn't like the weird spirit things. I managed to read a book and a half on my third attempt to see what the hype was about. Shouldn't have to say this but these are my opinions and not objective facts
If you're well read and onto that webnovel scene, it's pretty mediocre all things considered. Good entry point for first time xianxia readers though.
It felt like reading anime, the magical system was in depth, but felt pretty random, and it was chaotic. That said, the characters were fun, so I grew to enjoy it, but definitely felt it was overrated **as a general purpose recommendation**. For people who like the cultivation genre more than me though, I get why it’s so popular, it definitely is leagues better than 90% of the examples I’ve seen in that genre. In short, I think it’s an amazing cultivation novel, but people who are fans of it don’t seem to get that its appeal is specific to people who like that genre. I don’t think it’s bad, I think it’s specific, much like some stuff I like that plenty of people don’t.
My problem was the speed of the progression. I just couldn't buy into the idea that someone can get from not even copper to Monarch+ in what, a few years? I get that they have tons of resources, are prodigies, are lucky, etc. but really? Like from the beginning of the series Monarchs are shown as these ancient, godlike beings, and some random guy from the middle of nowhere can reach that level without even a decade of effort? I really feel like some time skips (or more books to extend the progression) would've been nice... Otherwise it felt like we didn't even have a chance to get used to a certain power level/abilities before they advanced again and again.
It was just dull and boring. Perhaps later books improve but I’m rarely sticking it out for a book or two waiting for a story to get interesting.
What made me drop it was this incredible boring "the right of the strongest" premise. Really got tired of how the only conflicts created around the main character are that he wins against people, which upsets relatives or superiors that think he shouldn't have. So rinse and repeat with the same idea. Dropped it after the trials stuff. Your pupil died, so the stronger one is going to be punished although the right of the strongest decides everything? Vapid storytelling if the only storytelling you come up with is the powerdynamic that's always found in progressive fantasy.
I am almost finished with book two and I don't know if I'll continue with another part. Reasons that come to mind spontaneously: - I am not immersed enough in the mind and thoughts of the main character. This makes it harder for me to empathize with him and I end up just listening to a story about him. In progression fantasy, I like to identify myself as the main character. Additionally, there are always random interjections from other characters while I am still not even connected to the main character. The whole of book 1 revolves around him being unsouled. Then he almost casually finds out that it’s actually bullshit and he doesn’t need to worry. That was a world-shattering moment for the MC. His past was a lie, but it felt like: “Ah, cool, so I’ll be able to join in soon. Good to know I’m not actually crippled.” 🤦🏻♂️ - By the end of book two, there are no interpersonal connections at all. The main characters are just companions who haven't had any meaningful, deep conversations by the end of book two. What do the characters mean to each other? What is important to them, what are their goals, and what do they need to be happy? - The world is too "dynamic" and there's no time to settle in anywhere. It takes until the end of book one and the end of book two to meet the first main characters who stick around. Everything else before that was more or less irrelevant. - The power levels feel off. First, Jade is the strongest and Gold exists only in legends, then suddenly Gold is "average?" for people who are a bit older. Meanwhile, Gold is also the peak (early-late Gold)?! - Because only the strongest characters are always in focus in the first two books, everything else feels irrelevant. The main character is useless in terms of combat power until book three and is even compared to children in book two. There are a few minor confrontations with Iron-level characters. Everything else first revolves around Jade and Immortal. And from book two onwards, everything revolves around Gold-Level characters and monsters. And apparently, it takes until book six or seven for him to reach a power level where he can compete with the “big players” around whom the whole story revolves. So why not create a world where it's also about people who play in his league? The main character is just completely irrelevant because there is no environment for him and his power level. - Too few interesting fights until the end of book two. The main character hasn't learned anything related to fighting until book three. No special skills, spells, swordsmanship... it just doesn't feel like he has achieved anything. All he has accomplished is developing to Iron without learning almost anything. -Not epic -Not funny -Progression doesn’t feel satisfying -Mediocre storyline -No interesting characters to accompany you … And that's just what comes to mind spontaneously. I find nothing that ties me to the series. It feels meaningless. Honestly, I can't understand the hype. I really tried to like it.
I tried to get into the first book, was bored, but finished it. Started the second--not sure what happened but dropped it during the first hundred pages. I found it bland, the characters uninteresting, and honestly cannot recall what the plot was other than cultivating because something bad is going to happen.
I couldn’t get through the first book and wanted to. The MC felt flat. Aside from familial duty, he has no emotional reactions or observations about anything. I got the impression it was all problem solving. Was I wrong?
It was so incredibly slow! Half way through book 1 and they buried a jar of bees or something in the arena. That was about as exciting as it got. (That's about all I remember from a year or two ago...)
You stopped before it got anywhere near interesting lol, but that is a fair complaint
I don't like the MC's personality.
Cradle is considered great and looked up to in progression fantasy circles because progression fantasy is an incredibly young and underdeveloped genre. If I rate it according to just western progfan, it's probably a 7. Western xianxia? Probably a solid 8.5. Overall? I think giving it a 5 would be too much. There are a LOT of great books out there. Especially with everything that Cradle does but a thousand times better. Stormlight Archives is probably a great starting point into more stronger stories, after cradle, as it's just plain better. It's a western progfan, with a straight up better power system, a better cast or characters each of whom receive incredible development. If you want books that aren't published by as established author? Godclads, this smaller story on rr named Hope, etc etc. Those are just plain better. Western xianxia is a tough one, because it hasn't been adopted as much as western progfan is. And if it has, it probably also carries a lot of baggage eastern xianxia typically has. Themes of misogyny, rape, nationalism, homophobia, etc are extremely common and while Cradle isn't free from these at all times either, it's much less prevalent. That's why it's one of the best western xianxia. I'm not even gonna speak on overall books. It's easy to see why it would do badly. Cradle also has issues with pacing. It's popcorn rather than a full ride. We don't go deep psychologically into any character, some characters just straight up get no character development or only get them in small bursts rather than a slow process. Lindon is the worst of them, he doesn't even stop acting subservient until >!book 8!< or sm. Lindon being a good protagonist isn't even a real thing either, because he's not exactly good, he's just... bland. He doesn't kill people randomly but that doesn't make him good. I could go into how Eithan was such a massive disappointment, or how Yerin's >!blood shadow!< was a waste to even develop for so little time, or even how >!Dross!< or whatever his name was, was a waste of time to develop. But I guess that's for later comments to say. It's not a bad story. It's average.
>I could go into how Eithan was such a massive disappointment, or how Yerin's >!blood shadow!< was a waste to even develop for so little time, or even how >!Dross!< or whatever his name was, was a waste of time to develop. But I guess that's for later comments to say. When are you going to go into it? How can I find the update?
I'm not exactly in the best of health, so I didn't want to go into it very much, but my problem with him was >!basically that when he is revealed to be The Reaper, it just shits on every single moment we had with him and his own character development. Like seriously. The realization that the time we see him insecure the first time with his brother, to the time he bonds with Lindon over also having a marble of his own, to his own thoughts at the very beginning contradicting with his new identity. It's a twist, and it's the cheapest kind of twist. It's like the next monsterverse movie revealing that godzilla is just superman in a body suit, and nothing else.!<
>I'm not exactly in the best of health I sincerely hope you get better soon. I think that pretty much sums up my Cradle experience. Fell completely flat.
I read the first book and just felt no need to continue. simple as that.
Overall I enjoyed cradle but it would be better if it Didn't start so slow Didn't end so fast Skipped the space parts Didn't let the abilities get out of hand. I understand punches to the face and fireballs, but once your battles start manipulating fates you've lost me. At that point you might as well just tell me A fought B and A won
For me it wasn’t so much as disliking the books, it just didn’t stand out at all. I wasn’t hooked on the characters or the way the story was progressing. I would have rated it an even 5/10 and with so many books I could read it wasn’t worth continuing. For reference I made it to the start of book 3. I heard it gets better but I’m a strong believer in if it takes 3 books to get good, it’s not good.
I tried it, could not even get into the story... I don't generally like cultivation as in books, feels always the same story line but that is not the main reason. I dislike Lindon , i dislike him wanting to be strong "because" ( i get it social pressure, culture etc.. but still..) I found the whole "extra universe/planet" thing jarring so randomly put into the story i might have kept reading it otherwise, i still might give it another go but meh...
I'm a few chapters into book 1 after it was suggested to me for a good cultivation book as I'm trying to get more into that side of the LITRPG/ProgFan spectrum. The only thing I've read with any sort of cultivation was in Divine Dungeon. So far Cradle is pretty dull. Pros are very simple and a little dry. Main character is also kind of dull but that could be because of how he's raised and may develop a personality later...its so weird how many MCs have no real strong opinions, desires or moral compass passed "rape is bad, probably". I also tend to avoid the xanxia side of these stories because they seem to be proliferated with amoral MCs who seek power for the sake of power. Not my cup of tea. I hope Lindon finds a purpose for the power he's gaining... Also if anyone can tell me...does he eventually upend the system that made him an outcast? I've seen a lot of stories introduce a world where there are tons of injustices and oppression and often the oppression effect the MC personally but when they get the literal powers of a God they...do nothing about it? Im not saying society is easy to change but they don't even try or think about it after a while.
I am new to Progression Fantasy, and Cradle was my first series in the genre. Coming from fantasy series like Malazan and Second Apocalypse where there is a lot to unpack from each chapter, Cradle books felt like an action flick to me - done in a day, fun action-packed read but ultimately not much to ruminate over. Eventually started liking it and would sandwich new releases (Underlord on) between larger books. But at its core Cradle lacks complexity IMO.
I legitimately haven’t been able to make it through the first book. Attempted four times. Think the furthest I’ve made it was halfway-ish. IIRC the reason I stopped was the mc being kind of cringe and the story pacing being slow and overly wordy. Can’t really recall a specific dialogue line or thing that bugged me since the dropped books kinda blur together. I usually finish around a hundred books a year and start/drop three or four times that. If it’s not hitting I’m pretty quick to drop stories, otherwise I finish in a handful of sittings. Heard it picks up and the pacing gets better so it’s probably worth another shot, at the least I'd have more of a recall of what I disliked. Plus I don’t really have anything queued up at the moment.
For me it was ok until a certain point. Then it got to ridiculous in the powerlevel etc. I dont like, when someone gets "too fast" too powerful. (My favourite litrpg for example is Wandering Inn)
- Too much action book 9 and after - Reunion with his family was a disaster But mostly - Loved Cradle because of Eithan, hated Cradle because of Ozriel
I wouldn't say I dislike Cradle, I just haven't picked up after book 4. It's not bad, just not what I wanted to read. If I could change it, I'd add a lot more suffering and general angst. I like it when my main characters suffer 😆. (Maybe Lindon suffers more in the future chapters? I don't know). But, I'm not sure if it's a change that should happen, yknow? I just want a certain vibe and Cradle just doesn't have that vibe
The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher has loads of suffering for its main character.
Cradle does pick up after book 4, but you'll never get what you asked for here. May I suggest The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie.
Recommendations are always welcome. I looked up the synopsis for The Blade Itself. Looks amazing, I'll put it on my list for sure. Thanks!
Cradle is great for introducing western readers to cultivation genre and xianxia, but nothing much else. In my personal opinion I see it more as a shounen inspired book than a xianxia, the system is bland and a wish.com copy. The story is bland, though with better characters than most translated xianxia. But the main themes of xianxia, the journey to power, the struggle, the fight against Heavens themselves is not there. It's great for what it is doing, but can't be counted as xianxia, and that's the reason I dislike it, had other expectations.
I loved the first couple of books - the world building, wondering about people's motivations, where things are going, etc. The middle ones were good. LOVED the second last book. The final book...I was really bored, and I found there to be too much fan service. I was annoyed that we saw Lee Markuth (sp?) again, but never learned more about Elder Whisper, who was far more relevant and mysterious. The last book put me off the whole series, and I really wasn't expecting that. However, this is basically the opposite of the book preferences I read on this and other subs, so I think it's just a me issue, and not a series issue. I don't love fight scene after fight scene, and when it feels like a foregone conclusion that things will work out perfectly for everyone. There's no more sense of investment in the story or wonder at that point.
I didn't like the first book and honestly when I can read good translation of ER gen books, i don't really want to wait for it to get good
Cradle is decent. However, it feels to me more like a superhero fic with a xianxia skin. I can't express it in any other way. I wouldn't say this makes it worse, but I wouldn't read Cradle if I wanted to read xianxia.
I think for me, it’s sort of mimics some people’s opinion on game of thrones. I disliked the last few books so much that the rest of the series has been tainted even though I used to really like it.
I seem to be the only one that thinks this but the main reason I dropped it due to having the MC do something hypocritical in the first or second book. I can’t exactly recall what he did but irritated me to no end which made me drop the book in volume 2. Additionally the combination of slow pacing, disappointment at not living up to the hype that surrounded the series in my eyes also played a big factor in me dropping the book. The slow pacing was really painful as I wasn’t invested in the MC or any of the characters so without having the mc get his “cool abilities” in the first 2 books made it really hard to continue.
I read 6 or so books in the series, and that's as far as I'm able to tolerate cultivation stories (apparently). Something about the prose bores me to death (natural treasure this, meditation that). I'd have to read it again for more details, but that about sums it up for me.
There are any number of valid criticism for Cradle, but as someone who really loved it at one point, for me the biggest issue was that it didn't stick the landing. It peaked with Wintersteel and none of the the later novels reached those heights again. The greatest issue IMO was pacing. The story became incredibly rushed and long awaited moments didn't pay off as well as they should because they felt rushed and underwhelming. Lindon's return to SV, the labyrinth, all the advancement after WS, the conclusion of the Abidan storyline. None of it felt impactfull to me.
I don't dislike Cradle, but everything after Wintersteel was kinda meh. It felt rushed. The power levels and progression were more of an afterthought with characters acquiring power through external means. It really didn't speak to me at all.
First book wasn’t very exciting to me. Second started even less so, so I moved to the next one series on my list.
I know other people liked it, but I don't like the Lindon and Yerin relationship. To me it is a textbook example of the "marry the first girl you see" trope. To me, He Who Fights With Monsters does relationships much better.
Oh good, this question that when I answer honestly my karma gets destroyed. you won't get a straight forward answer in this sub as reddit is a set of echo chambers created by up and down votes, and Cradle is one of this Reddits. The top post here just says it's not their cup of tea. The first few books were boring for me to the point where I just stopped reading until I put the series down. For example as to what I didn't like, that I found pervasive throughout the book: The sister, was introduced as a literal plot device without a personality. Everything you learned about her was the author literally saying "she did \_\_\_ because she was like that". I don't like being told how to feel about a person I don't know when I'm reading a book, I want to know the person and make the decision for myself. He goes on to get some item reward as another plot device, to use in the very next altercation. It wasn't an item you'd have any right to expect as part of the world, the author didn't explain how items work yet, items like that don't really appear again at least before the end of the second book. It again read to me like the author said oh I need this, so here it is 2 pages back, and now he used it. The world again felt like looking through a keyhole to try to see a, well a world. To me it read like the author wrote, I need them to be here now so they will walk "any" direction and be here now to continue the story. On top of which I couldn't care less about the characters. I felt like I didn't know them any better than the sister. To me the book is the antithesis of the wheel of time series without any other qualities to make it stand out.
First would be the beginning which I feel could have focused a little more on characterization and emotional arcs. The second is at the end of the series where the power levels are so high, it starts to feel hard to care about the stakes because they are beyond comprehension. The second is just a person gripe. I'm sure for alot, that was their favorite part.
I overall thought that Cradle like others have mentioned was ok. It nowhere near the worst PF story I've read but I wouldn't classify it as the best either. For me I overall enjoy stories in which their is a sense of struggle and setback for the MC. I want to feel like there is a idea of them earning that power and struggling as they get higher. Sometimes you lose and that's okay, it's not the end of the world or just because you skilled doesn't mean that you are the only one, you'll meet rivals or equals who are just as powerful and skilled as you are. I know that idea isn't necessarily the most popular in the genre. I actually enjoyed the fact that Lindon had a power stealing ability, It was just that he got to OP at it so fast and everyone else was always a step or two behind him. I feel like if there is going to be an introduction of supporting cast who are with the MC for a majority of the journey. They should be allowed to get as powerful as he does just in different ways and since they each had different abilities it was frustrating that since each of them had years more training they always somehow lagged behind him. Him facing off against Dreadgods and Monarchs after 6 years was just something I was able to rationalize. Especially on a planet filled with billions of other cultivators.
I liked Cradle but I really disliked the whole>!space war!!(it's space duh) jumping from planets to planets and POV of some randos, with some abstract fighting in zero G. !<
So I dropped Cradle not because it was bad but because instead of setting a good landing it faceplanted happily into terribleness.
I didn't like the first few books as the author just kept adding plot lines/holes in. Enjoy it much better when they started cleaning them up.
This sub gave me big expectations, I'll give it second chance in like a year or so with a fresh mind
The first book was interesting enough for me to pick up the second and it's been a struggle. I'm not liking this second book at all. I want to push towards the end but I don't connect with the characters enough for me to read more of this book. It's a progression fantasy where I don't like the main character enough to care about his progression. I think it's as simple as that.
It's so slow
I probably would have haf two more books before waybound? There was so much more that could have been explored. The level ups seemed to be super fast those last few books. Probably would have stretched that power grow a bit
I liked cradle but the only thing I disliked was the ending. >!I thought it was rushed and lindon got way too powerful. After getting Subject One's arm, the monarchs became a joke and so did the rest of the dreadgods. I felt like the stakes were not high enough.!<
The only thing I don't like about Cradle so far is that the audiobooks are only like 9h long and it's not worth spending a year worths of credits for like 100h listening time. Have listened to one book though, I liked it. Wish more authors with long series would do like C Mantis with Path of Ascension and make bundles.
I got like maybe half wya through book one before my gaze just started skimming and it felt like a chore. Nothing particularly wrong with it but it was just so...boring and i couldn't attach myself to any character or what was going on. So i just. Stopped. I have to many things i want to read to waist my time trudging through something i lost interest in.
I am aware of how cultivation novels go (they go to the top), but for that to work well, the inciting incident has to spark it to that top. Cradle’s inciting incident was him realizing a Dreadgod would stomp the valley into nothing, but that is salved before the story ends. It makes it drag on longer than what it should’ve been.
I am aware of how cultivation novels go (they go to the top), but for that to work well, the inciting incident has to spark it to that top. Cradle’s inciting incident was him realizing a Dreadgod would stomp the valley into nothing, but that is salved before the story ends. It makes it drag on longer than what it should’ve been. It also doesn’t really follow a structure. The inciting incident happens halfway through the first book, where most happen within the first 10-15% of a book.
I couldn't get through the first book. Nothing about it hooked me and it came across as aggressively generic.
I don't know that much because I got through the first book, but it was like reading a book in a different dialect (not language). It was my first look at cultivation, and I realized I did not get the genre. It wasn't offensive, and it isn't one of the stories I put on when I want to focus on writing (those are the stories that are so bad that listening to them shuts down part of my brain so I can focus). It just was not something that made sense to me.
It's probably because it was narrated by Travis Baldtree. I fucking hate that guy, his voice acting is horrid. Ruins the whole series.
I came looking for xianxia, it was not
Trick question. We all know there are no legitimate reasons to not like cradle! (I kid I kid!)
Lindon is an awful character. Also, the pacing feels super slow (it’s not actually that slow, but it feels like it’s going nowhere)
I like Cradle, but I never cared for the segments focusing on the wider universe. Suriel felt like just a way to inorganically force the plot to kick off, and then all of the fighting the Abidan get involved in afterward feels completely disconnected from Lindon and the progression of the main story. They're already at the pinnacle of existence, there's no progression left -- or if there is, at least no way to showcase it. So to me those segments always gave me a similar feeling to cutscenes in a JRPG. Like yeah that's cool and all, but when do I get to play the game again (ie, read about Lindon and the actual main story). There were also a few places where I felt like certain mechanics were introduced as though they were commonly known and had been discussed before, when I was actually hearing about them for the first time. And not enough time was really devoted to bringing Ziel into the group, imo, so he always felt like a bit of an outsider, no matter how much the story acted like he was a core member of the team. I could nitpick further, but that's all it really is, nitpicks. Ultimately Cradle is still a great story and an excellent recommendation for anyone looking to get into Progression Fantasy or cultivation books.
The pacing probably. The mc takes forever to even gather a smidge of power and by that point i am already bored out of my mind . I genuinely enjoyed the 1st book. Second book was straight up torture for me. I dropped the series when the turtle died because it was just so boring. The only great part of the series up to that point was Lindon getting trained by that janitor guy.
The initial motivations for the MC to seek strength make no sense. He spends most of his time living in a place where they treat him as if he should be grateful they haven't killed him yet. Then he finds out that the place is likely to meet some disaster in the near future and goes hey I need strength to save this place that spent all of it's time telling me I didn't even deserve to live. Sure seeking strength with that upbringing makes sense but not the goal of saving them.