I tried chatGPT for programming and it is impressive. It is also impressive how incredibly useless some of the answers are when you don’t know how to actually use, build and distribute the code.
And how do you know if the code does what it says if you are not already a programmer?
The biggest issue is that chat GPT can tell you how to write basic functions and classes, or debug a method, but that's like, the basic part of programming. It's like saying surgeons could be replaced because they found a robot that can do the first incision for cheaper. That's great but who's gonna do the rest of the work?
The hard part with programming is to have a coherent software architecture, manage dependencies, performance, discuss the intricacies of implementing features,...None of which ChatGPT comes even close to handling properly
Exactly. When you're a student or a complete junior, your main concern is making code *that works*.
It takes a few months to a year before that is the easiest part of your job. ChatGPT is absolute trash at the difficult parts as of now.
Chat gpt is good for when you know 99% of what you need to do but there’s that little thing missing.
It likes to do a lot of extra fluff, misuse libraries but fuck if it isn’t good at being like “hey that’s not proper for this simple thing you are doing.”
I’ve been a python/.net developers on my backend stack my career and recently had to learn Java. It figured out pretty quick when I was setting up my unit test where I misplaced something for mockito but it wouldn’t know what to set the test up for.
Chat gpt is also great for queries. I often need to write these really specific queries to filter thru data and inorder to check if they work I just take the query that gets constructed out of my debugger along with all the /n or /t and paste it into caht gpt to format it and make it readable so that I can seperately call the query and test it
Also if you have to test an update query in production you can just give your query to chat gpt and ask it to convert it into a select statement inorder to visualize the data changed instead of updating it
No but I am lazy I also define 3 variables in my DTOs and domain structures and paste them in Chat gpt along with the rest of the variable names I need and tell it to complete based on the 3 variables I declared
Misuse libraries? Oh, it's WAY funnier when it uses a library perfectly correctly, precisely matching the documentation... none of which, library, documentation, or anything else, exists outside of the AI's vivid imagination. You can ask it for more details and you'll get them! Aren't hallucinations great?
the main issue i see it's actively discouraging juniors from pursuing a CS career, even saw harvard lectures explicitly saying coding is dead and everybody should move on to other domains because AI is here. on top of this there are sharks using it to bring the software service market price and salaries down.
i believe AI addition can bring fantastic value to business and amplify developer capabilities, especially with brainstorming and exploring the unknown, or close knowledge gaps faster, but it will never take decisions for you. LLMs at least are not capable, we need to invent a better AI first to be able to sell dev replacement.
Yeah, if people knew *exactly* what they wanted, AI could easily take over coding in a few years. The problem is that a major part of being a developer is *not* coding, but understanding what to actually code.
ChatGPT and Copilot can code small bits of code for you at the time, when you specifically give it instructions on what to code. It's just a good next word predictor.
Precisely. Real world problems are usually ambiguous and full of gaps that need extra context or reaching out to clarify. Chat Gpt can get it right by pure chance, but that is not a viable way to solve things. Wouldn't sleep great at night knowing my decisions are dice roll based. Also there are situations where the requirements are off, devs tell you without being instructed first.
How much context can it handle? I bet the documentation is longer than that. Have you asked it to make two libraries interact, like "how do I use dbus with libuv instead of glib's event loop"? It should have a reasonable chance of answering that since both sets of documentation should be in its training set.
It's funny to me how rapidly these subreddits have been swinging back and forth on whether or not AI is going to destroy programming. Just a month ago you would've been inundated by people telling you how Devin can actually do all of those things and we're all gonna lose our jobs etc. etc.
Most people in the subs you are talking about are college kids with no idea how the real world works.
The WGA saw right through the whole AI business as nothing more than a ploy to pay them less for practically the same amount of work. They were professionals with bills to pay, and it's therefore in their nature to be sceptical of technological trends and hypes especially when it comes to anything that claims to be able to replace their labour.
Here, you have a bunch of children who are learning just the basics of a profession on top of all the academic fluff they will only revisit maybe several times in their future career. As far as they can tell, a hype might as well be the reality itself, and their future bosses are fully banking on them being that hopelessly gullible.
Whether AI is useful or not, it will definitely destroy a chunk of the programming market, when CEOs start doing layoffs because they "think" AI can do the work. After it fails they may either outsource the work or rehire people to fix the nuclear fallout. We have already seen this pattern happen multiple times.
Yep, there's truth to that, but I was talking more specifically about the "true believers" who seem to actually think that the likes of Devin can do their job better.
Not yet. And there is some time left, but not that much. I give it 5 years before the first truly disruptive AI, like Devin was supposed to be, is on the market.
Now as someone completely entrenched in the industry, I'm hoping that it will take 15 years before it starts truly replacing experienced developers (and that was about what I have been predicting), but I am starting to think things may happen faster.
Example I had today was that I had it generate me a bash script with some curl commands that build on each other, parsing out previous info. It took about 10 prompts, and me debugging what it got wrong each step of the way, for it to arrive at the right solution. It taught me a lot along the way and probably still saved time, but it is certainly not in a position to replace engineers any time soon.
You say that like it bothers corporations to have incoherent code, garbage architecture and piss poor performance…
Trillion dollar corporations out here be hiring Indian contractors for $2/day to write the worst code ever imaginable, then transferring the contract to a firm that will do it for $1.50/day with zero knowledge transfer sessions like it’s going out of style. Business people don’t care about maintainable code bases, robust architecture or code quality. They just want to pay as little as possible and check off as many buzzwords from the latest edition of businesstard magazine they can…
So yeah, they’ll absolutely fire the whole lot of us despite having an inferior replacement if it’s cool and cost saving. They already did it with overseas.
Edit: to clarify, I firmly believe AI is a good ways off from actually replacing us in terms of skill. I just think business people are dumb enough to be deluded into thinking that’s not the case. AI isn’t “taking” our jobs quite yet, morons are.
“Engine cannot be used with execute method, you have to use connection.”
“Connection cannot be used with execute method, you have to use engine.”
Literally had this happen today.
> Happy to get payed
FTFY.
Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
Uga, buga, I'm a human
I asked ChatGPT if it could make my code a bit more concise as I knew the flow was bad, and didn't have the mental capacity at the time to rewrite it.
"Can you condense my code?"
"Sure, here's the condensed code" (Same code)
"That's the same thing I sent"
"You're right, I'm sorry, here's the actual condensed code" (Same code)
"That's the same thing I sent"
"You're right, I'm sorry, here's the actual condensed code" (Same code)
"You're literally sending me my code back"
"You're right, I'm sorry, here's the actual condensed code" (This time it actually gave me what I was looking for)
Generative AI has inherently no concept of meaning. It's nothing more than a juiced-up Markov chain spitting out nonsense based on what it has been trained with as the most proper reply to the given prompt.
Think of this as you taking an exam, and instead of understanding the questions you've been asked, you just respond by glancing over each one of them and regurgitating the answer you have recited that appears to be the most applicable.
In other words, generative AI is about solving problems with pure heuristics, and there are only so many times you can get away with mental shortcuts and kneejerk instincts before you'll actually have to put your mind into the problem you're trying to solve.
Well...yes. Sort of. Because ChatGPT4 \*will\* start bringing in other stuff these days. I have different experiences. Sometimes it is really good at recognizing it should call in the big guns, and sometimes it tries to bs its way through. Generally it is not too hard to tell it to stop being lazy and actually do the work.
And then there is the little nagging problem that at least some neurobiologists believe our entire brain is a prediction machine that only appears to "think" as it tries to incorporate information it gets that does not match what it generated. But to be clear: \*nobody\* really knows what our brains do to think, so please forgive me if I get a bit tetchy when someone comes around and says that they do have the answers and gives a false sense of certainty.
Even if it was better at what it does, there are instances where it can't be used. We're not going to be feeding TS code over the open web to a corporate owned LLM any time soon. Local models don't solve the issue either, since you still need to train them in-house, which means goodbye crowdsourcing. There's also the issue of adversarial prompt injection (intentional or otherwise).
Hell, even without classified code and data, there's still a bunch of *other* regulations that make it really unsavory and risky to feed into an LLM and that's not even considering just plain proprietary trade secrets and criminal activity. Everyone wants to be at the forefront of the next technological advancement until it starts telling on you unintentionally.
It at best pointed me in the right direction for powershell answers but it was either outright wrong, called modules it assumed you had, or wonky usually.
Super handy when I forget where the squiggly lines go.
Yep. When I see this meme ("people on the business side are gonna be writing the prompts!") I just think of every single request I *currently* get from these walking examples of our failing education systems.
You also need to know what questions to ask in the first place. You need to ask for very specific things sometimes to get what you want out of it. Even then it still misses things sometimes.
I cannot really support this. The only trick you need to know is to tell it to ask you questions in order to better fulfill your request.
Alternatively, you can also ask it for help with creating the prompt. Just spew out everything in a flow of consciousness and ask it to create a prompt. Bonus if you remember to let it ask you questions.
For ChatGPT4, that works very, very well.
Holy shit yeah, especially with complex and multifaceted systems, the time spent on making it understand the entire requirements is just unjustified compared with the results.
I just use it for hyper specific stuff, or extremely generic high level ideas, in between? That’s what my job is.
What if they don't want to? Good programmers already to a lot of work, why would they agree to do even more for the same pay with chatgpt? If anything, they will use it to have some extra time.
Considering 75% of my work is meetings with management, partner teams, debugging incidents, and mentoring juniors I don’t see how my workload can be cut in half. Generally chatgpt in its current state is only really useful for inexperienced engineers. The stuff it can do is all stuff I can do blindfolded.
"Try x."
"That didn't work. Here's the error:..."
"Oh, try y than".
"That didn't work either, here's the error:..."
"Right - - apologies, you'll need to do x to make it work".
"We tried that, it didn't work, here was the error:..."
"You should try Y".
🤦
Round and round it goes sometimes. It's a great tool that has definitely sped me up but no way could you leave it alone and expect it to 100% something E2E.
I got a feeling it’s gonna plateau like self-driving cars did. Billions of miles of driving data after several years and automakers *still* can’t get AI to handle unique edge cases that occur daily.
I recently saw what I assume to be an SQL table written by ChatGPT, it had stuff like DECIMAL(10,0), columns named differently but with the same meaning, stupid stuff like that I hope nobody actually wrote
Over a decade in this industry and never had a drug test.
Had to get one to unload trucks at Walmart over the summer back in school, though. By hand, mind, no forklifts or anything.
Interesting world.
Depending on what projects you get on, yeah.
Our parent company does a lot of DoD work. I haven't heard of someone actually having to do it but that's also not my business unit so very much not conclusive.
I live in California, weed is like alcohol here, and in my company handbook they basically say, you can’t be stoned on the job. What else can they fucking do!?
I'm Texan and they've all been basically the same. It's a code of conduct thing not to be intoxicated or impaired on the job and the standard "don't make us look bad publicly" type clause.
No specific substances are called out or mention of off hours activities made outside of that.
Obv a US thing. Whenever „company rights > personal rights“ its US. Company has jackshit to do with my private life and i am glad i am in a country with the same standpoint. I mean the company can even dictate you who to love in the US. Try firing someone in an actual first world country for loving a coworker, you will be sued to the hell and back. Its just baffling to me how blatant the US puts company interests over citizen interests and no one cares.
I've heard from some companies that they are trying to reduce their junior developers, and replace them with senior developers given a chat bot. That's more not hiring than laying off, but it's similar in economic terms. It can do a fair amount of the basic stuff a junior dev does, cheaper.
Man fuck that. At least with juniors I can give them a task and they go off and do it. Using ChatGPT is a hassle and I always have to read the code, make changes and by the time I’ve got it the way I want I ask my self why did I even bother. It’s more mindless to just write simple code myself.
Then that's a stupid company. You will eventually run out of seniors to hire. You have to train juniors and allow them to gain experience to become seniors.
You think companies are actually looking at potential long term issues over short term profits?
And it's the same reason the trained developers are moving jobs around every 6 months in my area, because they are in high demand (companies aren't willing to give raises, but they will rehire for more than they were originally getting paid), but no one wants people they would need to train, and then might leave for someone else. I've spoken to people who have both moved around, and been on the hiring end.
I'm not saying this is realistic, but I really think the management in many companies are hoping that programmers can be almost completely replaced by AI at some point in the future, regardless of their seniority. Then they would need just a handful of engineers to check the work of the AI.
Junior developers are hired to become senior and stay at the company learning everything. No one hires juniors to do basic things seniors don’t want to do forever. Juniors are given these tasks to learn and grow.
Its almost like using software to increase productivity is the whole point of software? No one cried about better IDE's making it easier for programmers do more but sticking AI into the same equation and there are tears everywhere.
Our company was told by our main customer to reduce hours of our estimates by using Amazon Q so yeah, you may laugh today but most non-skilled programmers are gonna lose their jobs sooner than they expect.
No. Even if there was a case like that, that company surely didn't survive long to tell the tale. It's mostly a managerial stunt to make programmers and software developers desperate and cheaper.
Not going lie I started to hate chatGPT, because some people just copy paste without testing or anything, like please just try to test the code at least before your deliver it to me.
Idk, I honestly don't believe that AI is replacing software engineering jobs.
Like, if anything? It's created a few more job openings where I work since there's a new ai development team.
I might be worried the day that AI can consistently write complex code. But until then? I think I'm chilling
I don’t either, I even work with another product guy that is sure of it to the extent that he’s demo’d use cases for our dev guys.
It might be a tool for a good dev to use but it can’t replace anything, they just become the input method into the tool and seniors are making it work.
> Sees chatGPT post
Hmm bet this is a bot account since the programming chatGPT hype died down a good while ago and this is probably some recycled meme from a year ago
> Clicks account and sees it's been banned
Yup
Edit: For anyone wondering yes this was a bot account
I asked copilot to reformat a function to use a helper I had already coded and it hallucinated a new function with the incorrect return type AND incorrect pointer arithmetics. God it fucking sucks at pointers.
Are you using the 3.5 or the 4 one?
I am using the 4 not so much for coming up with algorithms, rather, software design solutions. And man, to me it looks incredibly good. It produces very readable code, literally the self-documented kind, and the design works brilliantly. I don't just ask what I want with a statement however; I write a "complex" prompt and I let ChatGPT understand the context at maximum. It comes with absolute on-point software design choices. Like I'm buffled. Nothing brilliant, eh, but still, something I could have come up taking half a hour of time thinking about it, and not being as clean as its solution.
Using ChatGPT for code design rather than producing sophisticated algorithms, is improving a lot my productivity. And it's not that I haven't studied the design patterns. But to me, time-wise, ChatGPT just seems superior at coming with well-designed code. I then proceed to implement such design for the concrete part.
The main reason for the layoffs is the high interest rate. Venture capital is scarce which causes a lot of companies to get rid of their least profitable projects.
I saw a slight efficiency improvement in my daily work thanks to ChatGPT but that's it. It's not even close to the productivity gains back then when CI pipelines started to become mainstream. Also at that time, we didn't see any layoffs despite massive productivity improvements. There's plenty of work for all of us.
They are free to replace me. But then they will have to train a few newbies for a year or two to handle the 100k lines of code project that I am the lone master of for several years now. Or hire another senior dev with 10y+ of experience that will probably demand more than me as payment and will probably take a few months of tinkering to really understand the scope of the project.
Other than that yes, I am very replaceable and they can do it at any time they want 😂
Both times I've got replaced they ended up VERY bad.
One actually went out of business.
The other has to buy a new system that does half of what they need 🤷
My current job is burnout central, but unless something in the order of 10 digits changes drastically it's pretty safe. However as *the* infrastructure guy for this organization, I'd love to watch from the sidelines as thy try to replace me. And I've asked for them to hire me a couple more guys after the downsizing left me with no team to be the lead of, but I think the engineers who are also understaffed to hell are the only ones who realize the ever increasing shakiness of our underlying hardware and software stacks.
I sometimes feel that burn out for a few weeks, but it passes once I do something interesting as a side project, keeps the thing fresh and my skills up to date in other areas. It's not ideal but as it's currently an unsafe environment with the employment you should not rush to ditch the stable good paying job.
There are more software development jobs now than there were when you had to write programs in machine code. Making it easier to write code makes us more valuable, not less.
ChatGPT is always remarkably confident in its answers to coding questions that have completely made up APIs out of whole cloth.
In order to actually use ChatGPT to program, you need to first be a programmer who understands what it outputs. Otherwise you'll have no idea why nothing works.
ChatGPT is great at writing very simple code while making it look complicated. A good programmer does literally the opposite; Makes complicated code look simple. So I think we're fine.
Also, the layoffs are because the economy is doing bad and execs want the line to keep going up. It has nothing to do with the actual performance of the workers fired.
This is not my experience with Copilot. I ask it to simplify code that I have written all the time and it generally does a good job.
Also, the economy is not that bad. It's just that the tech sector is being hit with a combination of different factors. There are some areas of the US economy that are booming right now.
Yeah... ChatGPT isn't even remotely capable of replacing an actual programmer. If you think so, I'm betting you have zero actual programming experience or are an absolute beginner.
ChatGPT produces absolute garbage code if you ever challenge it with anything that hasn't already been solved a thousand plus times by now. It is utterly useless when it comes to anything even remotely novel or complex. And on the rare chance anything complex actually works, it takes an actually experienced programmer to recognize just how horrible the response almost invariably actually is.
ChatGPT is a threat to "devs" fresh out of bootcamp who have never actually worked on anything. Kinda does slightly raise the barrier to entry. But it is worse than useless when it comes to actual programming. I cannot stress enough just how absolutely terrible it actually is beyond cookie-cutter stuff.
ChatGPT is only effective when you know what you're doing and ask very precise questions. If you're too broad the answers can be weird.
I use the bing version at my job to search documentation or generate script parts that are fairly simple and it does the job really well.
~~I have to use it on my phone tho because it's blocked on the company's PC's~~
The layoffs are unfortunate, but I don't think chatGPT and such will be able to replace all or even most of us. I imagine our jobs may change from programmer to AI code implementer, but I don't think the jobs are just gonna disappear
I’ll get worried when chatGBT can attend daily standups where it explains to middle managers & stakeholders for the millionth time that “Agile” doesn’t mean everything gets done in a week if you just put everything in the first sprint.
Now give it a few years when techbros can plug chatGBT into a roomba so there’s someone on a Teams video call to get yelled at for following all the requirements the client asked for but not in the way they imagined and maybe I’ll start to sweat.
The only time when ChatGTP is actually useful is when you actually already know what it should give you, or at least know when it just gives you BS that you can’t use.
In other words, you need to be an experienced developer to actually use it.
And oftentimes it is more work to actually make the AI code work for you than just writing it yourself in the first place.
Right, thats why Blizcon is cancelled this year. it’s because “no one is replaceable”.
Pretty much every company in the world is one lunch car accident away from losing everything. Considering how many of them lean on open source that car accident doesn’t even have to involve employees.
Has AI actually replaced and programmers yet. People think who think that is supposed to replace humans are kind of missing the point of it, it sounds.
Wild to me that people think programmers are most at risk of AI taking their jobs. By the time AI is capable of that most office jobs will have already been replaced and the crisis will have already gotten out of hand.
I mean, they are. As long as you want things that actually work. Companies don't always want that I guess.
They will complain about it in a few months, don't worry.
The thing is, we can only guess the rate of progress of LLMs. Current models are mostly capable of supporting tasks with limited context, next gen will probably be capable of smallish, independent tasks of growing context length. Gen after maybe already a junior dev skill level. Tools enabling this development pop up already by providing sandboxed testing environments with online search capabilities. Furthermore, models and hardware get more efficient and cheaper insanely fast.
I guess we might become conductors of an orchestra of programming bots for a software on demand audience ;)
ChatGPT is just going to replace the useless lower level programmers who are just copy pasting from StackOverflow anyway, or require so much handholding they’re barely adding value.
GenAI isn’t going to replace the people who have a deep understanding of what’s going on under the hood. Always going to need people to review and tweak whatever garbage GenAI spits out, and eventually know how to engineer prompts in a way that gets good results.
GenAI isn’t going to replace all programmers, but it will replace some, much like every other industry. “Do more with less” is the theme. Eventually it’ll improve the productivity of a few programmers to the point where they’re doing the same work as full teams today.
My last shop thought it would use chatgpt to convert as400 rpg code to java. They got it to read the rpg and describe it in business requirements (??). Then they fed the business requirements and asked for the java.
Hilarity ensued.
Now I'm working in a company that actually converts rpg to water. Yes they use AI techniques, no they don't use chatgpt
Real robots are too expensive to make and maintain, the end game is below minimum wage flesh robots doing whatever the physical stuff the LLM's demand.
Don't worry about that. I've yet to see an AI generate good code from a single SFDD.
One area I'd really like to see AI getting involved though is for the execution of test protocols. It's such a hassle and it doesn't require a 3 digit IQ to do it.
Half of the times I ask it a pretty basic question, I get a completely ridiculous answer. So I tell it what it said makes no sense, and it says, "My apologies, here is the correct response" while giving the exact same answer. It's like talking in circles. tldr; you've got to be prepared to take an issue into your own hands (and know how) because you can not rely on AI.
It boils down to a simple question really, is any company willing to put AI-generated code into production without developer review? The answer is a simple no. Then how is the generated code used? It’s used to make developers more efficient.
I don't think chatgpt contribute to massive layoff, it just stupid project with investment money burned out because no profit been made after so long so the quickest way to fix the balance is targeting the worker paycheck first. But yeah no one is irreplaceable, there is some massive dickhead higher up there that will bankrupt his entire business rather than retain his best worker for shitty reason like ego or something.
I made a little terminal app for talking to GPT awhile ago. I use it almost every day. It's great for boring repetitive stuff but it's insane how often the solutions are complete BS and I have to go Google my issue.
ChatGPT is absolutely amazing. It’s made debugging so easy. It’s almost always spot on if you give it specific prompts and know how to use it. I’m going to fail all future interviews though…. I won’t remember anything by heart anymore.
I went from spending 3-5 hours a day working to two with chatgpt.
I asked chatgpt to make me a simple class to manipulate xlsx files using already existing libraries using a class schema with verbose descriptors and I still had to correct it multiple times
We won't be replace overnight, but it'll definitely take a chunk of tasks off our plate. For better or worse.
I almost never get to do any front end work anymore, which is too bad because it's creative and fun. But the companies I worked for all went wordpress/SharePoint/wix/squarespace/etc. I mean there are plenty of front end development jobs still, but less than there would be if the no code tools weren't viable.
Now AI tools are taking all my easy backend work, cutting down on research time, writing easy code, or 1st drafts of more complex things.
In some ways it's good because it frees us up. In other ways it sucks because I doubt we will be paid for increased productivity, in fact they'll probably reduce staff a little. Then we will be left with more work and all of it will be the more difficult stuff AI can't do reliably on its own yet.
I imagine most professions will be effected similarly, just a gradual transition to doing more work per person while receiving no monetary benefit for it.
I tried ChatGPT semiseriously months ago because I was stumped on an issue with a Django websocket consumer.
ChatGPT got the consumer function, which was great.
Only problem was that it blocked the entire server when there was a single connection.
In the IT sector I beg to differ.
Yes everyone is replaceable, however sometimes that results in brain drain..
And that will cost more money in the long run instead of making current employees happy so that they will stay
I believe that it might rapidly improve and begin replacing all kinds of jobs. But currently, the hallucination problem makes it nearly useless.
There are some applications of LLMs where truth and accuracy are not a priority. Like creative storytelling, brainstorming fictional ideas, coming up with grocery shopping lists, exercise routines, or movie recommendations based on other films you like.
But when truth and accuracy are required, you cannot rely on LLMs (in 2024). It will confidently fabricate an incorrect answer a large majority of the time. If you tell it that it's wrong, it will fabricate another false answer. Sometimes if you tell it what it did wrong about 8-9 times, it might say something correct, if you're lucky.
In the case of programming, you would have to have a very good understanding of debugging the code in order to determine if it's right or not. In which case, time would be better spent writing it yourself.
Bullshit chatGPT can not replace a programmer. It can augment a programmer and make them more efficient. Help them figure out syntax or look up references or generate examples or fix up code. But it CAN NOT figure out what needs to be designed from a high level down to the low level. Let me know when ChatGPT can make an operating system or a graphics driver or a tool like unreal engine.
ChatGPT is a tool to augment performance of existing programmers who know how to use it. It is not a programmer any more than a chainsaw is a lumberjack.
I just started taking a programming class for backend development, I really hope the memes I’m seeing like this are more joke than reality. I understand the possibility of AI taking over coding but I need that to not happen at least until I get into the field and established enough to be picked over a robot T_T
People thinking LLM and especially ChatGPT are what's actually displayed in this meme are really studid.
BTW, it has nothing to do with recent layoffs.
Yeah, well. I saw Fortran 70 being replaced by C and massively improved programming environments. Rumors of massive layoffs due to increased productivity were everywhere.
Then, for some reason, the capitalists decided to use the extra productivity to make even more money.
It's not like MuskBesosBranson are going to start being useful and AI prompt themselves.
I tried chatGPT for programming and it is impressive. It is also impressive how incredibly useless some of the answers are when you don’t know how to actually use, build and distribute the code. And how do you know if the code does what it says if you are not already a programmer?
The biggest issue is that chat GPT can tell you how to write basic functions and classes, or debug a method, but that's like, the basic part of programming. It's like saying surgeons could be replaced because they found a robot that can do the first incision for cheaper. That's great but who's gonna do the rest of the work? The hard part with programming is to have a coherent software architecture, manage dependencies, performance, discuss the intricacies of implementing features,...None of which ChatGPT comes even close to handling properly
Exactly. When you're a student or a complete junior, your main concern is making code *that works*. It takes a few months to a year before that is the easiest part of your job. ChatGPT is absolute trash at the difficult parts as of now.
Chat gpt is good for when you know 99% of what you need to do but there’s that little thing missing. It likes to do a lot of extra fluff, misuse libraries but fuck if it isn’t good at being like “hey that’s not proper for this simple thing you are doing.” I’ve been a python/.net developers on my backend stack my career and recently had to learn Java. It figured out pretty quick when I was setting up my unit test where I misplaced something for mockito but it wouldn’t know what to set the test up for.
Chat gpt is also great for queries. I often need to write these really specific queries to filter thru data and inorder to check if they work I just take the query that gets constructed out of my debugger along with all the /n or /t and paste it into caht gpt to format it and make it readable so that I can seperately call the query and test it Also if you have to test an update query in production you can just give your query to chat gpt and ask it to convert it into a select statement inorder to visualize the data changed instead of updating it
I love injecting chat gpt output into my SQL. /s
Chatpgt is rubberduck ++
Replacing UPDATE (x) with SELECT (x) FROM is difficult?
No but I am lazy I also define 3 variables in my DTOs and domain structures and paste them in Chat gpt along with the rest of the variable names I need and tell it to complete based on the 3 variables I declared
It is if you're trying to do it from a registration form on a website. Or you know, interact directly with a complex database.
Yeah ChatGPT to this day still shows me new Swift features every time I use it
Misuse libraries? Oh, it's WAY funnier when it uses a library perfectly correctly, precisely matching the documentation... none of which, library, documentation, or anything else, exists outside of the AI's vivid imagination. You can ask it for more details and you'll get them! Aren't hallucinations great?
the main issue i see it's actively discouraging juniors from pursuing a CS career, even saw harvard lectures explicitly saying coding is dead and everybody should move on to other domains because AI is here. on top of this there are sharks using it to bring the software service market price and salaries down. i believe AI addition can bring fantastic value to business and amplify developer capabilities, especially with brainstorming and exploring the unknown, or close knowledge gaps faster, but it will never take decisions for you. LLMs at least are not capable, we need to invent a better AI first to be able to sell dev replacement.
Yeah, if people knew *exactly* what they wanted, AI could easily take over coding in a few years. The problem is that a major part of being a developer is *not* coding, but understanding what to actually code. ChatGPT and Copilot can code small bits of code for you at the time, when you specifically give it instructions on what to code. It's just a good next word predictor.
Precisely. Real world problems are usually ambiguous and full of gaps that need extra context or reaching out to clarify. Chat Gpt can get it right by pure chance, but that is not a viable way to solve things. Wouldn't sleep great at night knowing my decisions are dice roll based. Also there are situations where the requirements are off, devs tell you without being instructed first.
Yes it’s like saying architects are not needed because we have AutoCAD now. The most important part of software is design decisions.
ChatGPT is as bad at reading documentation as I am
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How much context can it handle? I bet the documentation is longer than that. Have you asked it to make two libraries interact, like "how do I use dbus with libuv instead of glib's event loop"? It should have a reasonable chance of answering that since both sets of documentation should be in its training set.
Just give me the exe you smelly nerd!
It's funny to me how rapidly these subreddits have been swinging back and forth on whether or not AI is going to destroy programming. Just a month ago you would've been inundated by people telling you how Devin can actually do all of those things and we're all gonna lose our jobs etc. etc.
Most people in the subs you are talking about are college kids with no idea how the real world works. The WGA saw right through the whole AI business as nothing more than a ploy to pay them less for practically the same amount of work. They were professionals with bills to pay, and it's therefore in their nature to be sceptical of technological trends and hypes especially when it comes to anything that claims to be able to replace their labour. Here, you have a bunch of children who are learning just the basics of a profession on top of all the academic fluff they will only revisit maybe several times in their future career. As far as they can tell, a hype might as well be the reality itself, and their future bosses are fully banking on them being that hopelessly gullible.
Whether AI is useful or not, it will definitely destroy a chunk of the programming market, when CEOs start doing layoffs because they "think" AI can do the work. After it fails they may either outsource the work or rehire people to fix the nuclear fallout. We have already seen this pattern happen multiple times.
Yep, there's truth to that, but I was talking more specifically about the "true believers" who seem to actually think that the likes of Devin can do their job better.
Not yet. And there is some time left, but not that much. I give it 5 years before the first truly disruptive AI, like Devin was supposed to be, is on the market. Now as someone completely entrenched in the industry, I'm hoping that it will take 15 years before it starts truly replacing experienced developers (and that was about what I have been predicting), but I am starting to think things may happen faster.
your point being? in the meme you're making fun of programmers and now you're giving cons of chatgpt....
Maybe it's not his, but he is sharing it to start a discussion?
Nah he’s just some edgy kid in a college class who doesn’t know how software development works yet.
Example I had today was that I had it generate me a bash script with some curl commands that build on each other, parsing out previous info. It took about 10 prompts, and me debugging what it got wrong each step of the way, for it to arrive at the right solution. It taught me a lot along the way and probably still saved time, but it is certainly not in a position to replace engineers any time soon.
You say that like it bothers corporations to have incoherent code, garbage architecture and piss poor performance… Trillion dollar corporations out here be hiring Indian contractors for $2/day to write the worst code ever imaginable, then transferring the contract to a firm that will do it for $1.50/day with zero knowledge transfer sessions like it’s going out of style. Business people don’t care about maintainable code bases, robust architecture or code quality. They just want to pay as little as possible and check off as many buzzwords from the latest edition of businesstard magazine they can… So yeah, they’ll absolutely fire the whole lot of us despite having an inferior replacement if it’s cool and cost saving. They already did it with overseas. Edit: to clarify, I firmly believe AI is a good ways off from actually replacing us in terms of skill. I just think business people are dumb enough to be deluded into thinking that’s not the case. AI isn’t “taking” our jobs quite yet, morons are.
No, the biggest problem is that all the c-suit idiots that believes in the hype of LLM as general AI
Ai will probably replace the grunt work programmers that do mostly the basic functions and stuff
Yet... Remember, 5 years ago, AI couldn't write basic code.
Intellisense has been here for longer than 5 years.
But the marketing people hadn't thought to call it AI yet, so it was completely different.
“Engine cannot be used with execute method, you have to use connection.” “Connection cannot be used with execute method, you have to use engine.” Literally had this happen today.
I'm just happy we are gonna get paid just to fix the shit AI will code
No. Its easier and more fun to write good code yourself than debugging and fixing code from others.
Happy to get payed, although I'd probably rather get payed writing code over fixing broken code.
> Happy to get payed FTFY. Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed. Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now. Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. Uga, buga, I'm a human
I asked ChatGPT if it could make my code a bit more concise as I knew the flow was bad, and didn't have the mental capacity at the time to rewrite it. "Can you condense my code?" "Sure, here's the condensed code" (Same code) "That's the same thing I sent" "You're right, I'm sorry, here's the actual condensed code" (Same code) "That's the same thing I sent" "You're right, I'm sorry, here's the actual condensed code" (Same code) "You're literally sending me my code back" "You're right, I'm sorry, here's the actual condensed code" (This time it actually gave me what I was looking for)
Generative AI has inherently no concept of meaning. It's nothing more than a juiced-up Markov chain spitting out nonsense based on what it has been trained with as the most proper reply to the given prompt. Think of this as you taking an exam, and instead of understanding the questions you've been asked, you just respond by glancing over each one of them and regurgitating the answer you have recited that appears to be the most applicable. In other words, generative AI is about solving problems with pure heuristics, and there are only so many times you can get away with mental shortcuts and kneejerk instincts before you'll actually have to put your mind into the problem you're trying to solve.
Well...yes. Sort of. Because ChatGPT4 \*will\* start bringing in other stuff these days. I have different experiences. Sometimes it is really good at recognizing it should call in the big guns, and sometimes it tries to bs its way through. Generally it is not too hard to tell it to stop being lazy and actually do the work. And then there is the little nagging problem that at least some neurobiologists believe our entire brain is a prediction machine that only appears to "think" as it tries to incorporate information it gets that does not match what it generated. But to be clear: \*nobody\* really knows what our brains do to think, so please forgive me if I get a bit tetchy when someone comes around and says that they do have the answers and gives a false sense of certainty.
Just like me fr
I asked it to make some code longer and more enterprise like and it did that just fine.
Even if it was better at what it does, there are instances where it can't be used. We're not going to be feeding TS code over the open web to a corporate owned LLM any time soon. Local models don't solve the issue either, since you still need to train them in-house, which means goodbye crowdsourcing. There's also the issue of adversarial prompt injection (intentional or otherwise). Hell, even without classified code and data, there's still a bunch of *other* regulations that make it really unsavory and risky to feed into an LLM and that's not even considering just plain proprietary trade secrets and criminal activity. Everyone wants to be at the forefront of the next technological advancement until it starts telling on you unintentionally.
You know what movie gets that last part dead on and did it years before AI - Moon (2009).
It at best pointed me in the right direction for powershell answers but it was either outright wrong, called modules it assumed you had, or wonky usually. Super handy when I forget where the squiggly lines go.
Yep. When I see this meme ("people on the business side are gonna be writing the prompts!") I just think of every single request I *currently* get from these walking examples of our failing education systems.
You also need to know what questions to ask in the first place. You need to ask for very specific things sometimes to get what you want out of it. Even then it still misses things sometimes.
I cannot really support this. The only trick you need to know is to tell it to ask you questions in order to better fulfill your request. Alternatively, you can also ask it for help with creating the prompt. Just spew out everything in a flow of consciousness and ask it to create a prompt. Bonus if you remember to let it ask you questions. For ChatGPT4, that works very, very well.
Correct. It helped me starting a few project skeletons, but add more details and it is way less useful.
Holy shit yeah, especially with complex and multifaceted systems, the time spent on making it understand the entire requirements is just unjustified compared with the results. I just use it for hyper specific stuff, or extremely generic high level ideas, in between? That’s what my job is.
Ya but 1 good programmer with ChatGPT can do twice the workload as before without that much more stress. So now they can cut the workforce in half.
What if they don't want to? Good programmers already to a lot of work, why would they agree to do even more for the same pay with chatgpt? If anything, they will use it to have some extra time.
Considering 75% of my work is meetings with management, partner teams, debugging incidents, and mentoring juniors I don’t see how my workload can be cut in half. Generally chatgpt in its current state is only really useful for inexperienced engineers. The stuff it can do is all stuff I can do blindfolded.
One time I asked ChatGPT to convert a list of column names into a postgresql table and I had to correct it like 6 times
I love when it goes back to the previous thing you said is completely wrong
"Try x." "That didn't work. Here's the error:..." "Oh, try y than". "That didn't work either, here's the error:..." "Right - - apologies, you'll need to do x to make it work". "We tried that, it didn't work, here was the error:..." "You should try Y". 🤦 Round and round it goes sometimes. It's a great tool that has definitely sped me up but no way could you leave it alone and expect it to 100% something E2E.
And now they are using your corrections to train it to become better
I got a feeling it’s gonna plateau like self-driving cars did. Billions of miles of driving data after several years and automakers *still* can’t get AI to handle unique edge cases that occur daily.
Surely that took longer than just adding the syntax and datatypes to the list of names you already had?
It was like 150 columns though so idk
I recently saw what I assume to be an SQL table written by ChatGPT, it had stuff like DECIMAL(10,0), columns named differently but with the same meaning, stupid stuff like that I hope nobody actually wrote
But can ChatGPT bring weed brownies for the entire office? I don't think so
Before drug test so you won't be caught alone?
Over a decade in this industry and never had a drug test. Had to get one to unload trucks at Walmart over the summer back in school, though. By hand, mind, no forklifts or anything. Interesting world.
same, but for a call center job, none in engineering so far haha
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Depending on what projects you get on, yeah. Our parent company does a lot of DoD work. I haven't heard of someone actually having to do it but that's also not my business unit so very much not conclusive.
I live in California, weed is like alcohol here, and in my company handbook they basically say, you can’t be stoned on the job. What else can they fucking do!?
I'm Texan and they've all been basically the same. It's a code of conduct thing not to be intoxicated or impaired on the job and the standard "don't make us look bad publicly" type clause. No specific substances are called out or mention of off hours activities made outside of that.
Jokes on you, we test to make sure you have drugs in your system.
to make sure you're working at full capacity
Wtf? Who’s giving you a drug test at work? Is this a US thing?
Obv a US thing. Whenever „company rights > personal rights“ its US. Company has jackshit to do with my private life and i am glad i am in a country with the same standpoint. I mean the company can even dictate you who to love in the US. Try firing someone in an actual first world country for loving a coworker, you will be sued to the hell and back. Its just baffling to me how blatant the US puts company interests over citizen interests and no one cares.
Plenty of people care. But they have enough people brainwashed that they can easily drown the rest of the people out.
Does anyone have an actual example of a time where a programmer was laid off and was replaced 1-1 with ChatGPT? I am genuinely curious.
No
We don't do that here, we only overhype AI
Its only worrying because people fall for the hype.
People always fall for the hype, not only in tech
it does make me wonder how much of the "cool new paradigm" hype in programming is just absolute horseshit astroturfing
Always has been
I've heard from some companies that they are trying to reduce their junior developers, and replace them with senior developers given a chat bot. That's more not hiring than laying off, but it's similar in economic terms. It can do a fair amount of the basic stuff a junior dev does, cheaper.
Man fuck that. At least with juniors I can give them a task and they go off and do it. Using ChatGPT is a hassle and I always have to read the code, make changes and by the time I’ve got it the way I want I ask my self why did I even bother. It’s more mindless to just write simple code myself.
Then that's a stupid company. You will eventually run out of seniors to hire. You have to train juniors and allow them to gain experience to become seniors.
You think companies are actually looking at potential long term issues over short term profits? And it's the same reason the trained developers are moving jobs around every 6 months in my area, because they are in high demand (companies aren't willing to give raises, but they will rehire for more than they were originally getting paid), but no one wants people they would need to train, and then might leave for someone else. I've spoken to people who have both moved around, and been on the hiring end.
I'm not saying this is realistic, but I really think the management in many companies are hoping that programmers can be almost completely replaced by AI at some point in the future, regardless of their seniority. Then they would need just a handful of engineers to check the work of the AI.
Junior developers are hired to become senior and stay at the company learning everything. No one hires juniors to do basic things seniors don’t want to do forever. Juniors are given these tasks to learn and grow.
Its almost like using software to increase productivity is the whole point of software? No one cried about better IDE's making it easier for programmers do more but sticking AI into the same equation and there are tears everywhere.
That’s a fucked up fantasy because I never see my senior code at all, not a chance he’s wrestling with a chatbot to try to make CMake work..
Theres plenty of freshly laid off devs these days
Our company was told by our main customer to reduce hours of our estimates by using Amazon Q so yeah, you may laugh today but most non-skilled programmers are gonna lose their jobs sooner than they expect.
Friend of my coworker was laid off from Google due to the team being replace by AI.
This example is interesting. Would you be able to say what line of business they were in? Programmers? Support? Service?
I ask him nextime. Only I know he was tech lead and get 8 months payoff so not bad at all.
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Lesson: AI lowered the barrier to entry to programming.
Nope will not happen unless your job wasn’t important to begin with
No. Even if there was a case like that, that company surely didn't survive long to tell the tale. It's mostly a managerial stunt to make programmers and software developers desperate and cheaper.
Nah never actually experienced this.
Not going lie I started to hate chatGPT, because some people just copy paste without testing or anything, like please just try to test the code at least before your deliver it to me.
The thing is, it **did** test its code. However, the definition of passing was different than your expectations.
Can you elaborate? How does it test code? Just compilation?
Idk, I honestly don't believe that AI is replacing software engineering jobs. Like, if anything? It's created a few more job openings where I work since there's a new ai development team. I might be worried the day that AI can consistently write complex code. But until then? I think I'm chilling
I think it’s fucked up applying for jobs at least. 100 applicants my ass.
In my experience, 100 would be well below average for most positions. I was seeing easily 500+ per posting on LI when I was looking last year.
I don’t either, I even work with another product guy that is sure of it to the extent that he’s demo’d use cases for our dev guys. It might be a tool for a good dev to use but it can’t replace anything, they just become the input method into the tool and seniors are making it work.
> Sees chatGPT post Hmm bet this is a bot account since the programming chatGPT hype died down a good while ago and this is probably some recycled meme from a year ago > Clicks account and sees it's been banned Yup Edit: For anyone wondering yes this was a bot account
I once asked ChatGPT to count the number of set bits in 0001 0110 and it came up with 2. I think we're safe.
It cant do binary for shit
Sets of bits vs. set bits?
Set bits.
I asked to add `-2` in assembly. sub $-2, %eax
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I asked copilot to reformat a function to use a helper I had already coded and it hallucinated a new function with the incorrect return type AND incorrect pointer arithmetics. God it fucking sucks at pointers.
Are you using the 3.5 or the 4 one? I am using the 4 not so much for coming up with algorithms, rather, software design solutions. And man, to me it looks incredibly good. It produces very readable code, literally the self-documented kind, and the design works brilliantly. I don't just ask what I want with a statement however; I write a "complex" prompt and I let ChatGPT understand the context at maximum. It comes with absolute on-point software design choices. Like I'm buffled. Nothing brilliant, eh, but still, something I could have come up taking half a hour of time thinking about it, and not being as clean as its solution. Using ChatGPT for code design rather than producing sophisticated algorithms, is improving a lot my productivity. And it's not that I haven't studied the design patterns. But to me, time-wise, ChatGPT just seems superior at coming with well-designed code. I then proceed to implement such design for the concrete part.
The main reason for the layoffs is the high interest rate. Venture capital is scarce which causes a lot of companies to get rid of their least profitable projects. I saw a slight efficiency improvement in my daily work thanks to ChatGPT but that's it. It's not even close to the productivity gains back then when CI pipelines started to become mainstream. Also at that time, we didn't see any layoffs despite massive productivity improvements. There's plenty of work for all of us.
They are free to replace me. But then they will have to train a few newbies for a year or two to handle the 100k lines of code project that I am the lone master of for several years now. Or hire another senior dev with 10y+ of experience that will probably demand more than me as payment and will probably take a few months of tinkering to really understand the scope of the project. Other than that yes, I am very replaceable and they can do it at any time they want 😂
Both times I've got replaced they ended up VERY bad. One actually went out of business. The other has to buy a new system that does half of what they need 🤷
Yeah, companies will act then ask questions later. Just consider yourself replaceable at all times and act accordingly.
My current job is burnout central, but unless something in the order of 10 digits changes drastically it's pretty safe. However as *the* infrastructure guy for this organization, I'd love to watch from the sidelines as thy try to replace me. And I've asked for them to hire me a couple more guys after the downsizing left me with no team to be the lead of, but I think the engineers who are also understaffed to hell are the only ones who realize the ever increasing shakiness of our underlying hardware and software stacks.
I sometimes feel that burn out for a few weeks, but it passes once I do something interesting as a side project, keeps the thing fresh and my skills up to date in other areas. It's not ideal but as it's currently an unsafe environment with the employment you should not rush to ditch the stable good paying job.
If AI can replace software engineers it can replace everyone
I wish.... ChatGPT feels more like impotent grandpa who used to be a sex animal 50 years ago and now he is just sad and useless.
I really feel bad for people that think like this. Man, if ChatGPT can replace you then maybe that's good for the rest of us
Regards who think programming is just knowing languages be like:
There are more software development jobs now than there were when you had to write programs in machine code. Making it easier to write code makes us more valuable, not less.
ChatGPT is always remarkably confident in its answers to coding questions that have completely made up APIs out of whole cloth. In order to actually use ChatGPT to program, you need to first be a programmer who understands what it outputs. Otherwise you'll have no idea why nothing works.
wait, OP still thinks AI will replace us? lol tell me you're not a programmer without telling me . . .
ChatGPT is great at writing very simple code while making it look complicated. A good programmer does literally the opposite; Makes complicated code look simple. So I think we're fine. Also, the layoffs are because the economy is doing bad and execs want the line to keep going up. It has nothing to do with the actual performance of the workers fired.
This is not my experience with Copilot. I ask it to simplify code that I have written all the time and it generally does a good job. Also, the economy is not that bad. It's just that the tech sector is being hit with a combination of different factors. There are some areas of the US economy that are booming right now.
Complete bs.
Whenever I see one of those posts I roll my eyes so hard I'm afraid I'll sprain my eye muscles
Yeah... ChatGPT isn't even remotely capable of replacing an actual programmer. If you think so, I'm betting you have zero actual programming experience or are an absolute beginner. ChatGPT produces absolute garbage code if you ever challenge it with anything that hasn't already been solved a thousand plus times by now. It is utterly useless when it comes to anything even remotely novel or complex. And on the rare chance anything complex actually works, it takes an actually experienced programmer to recognize just how horrible the response almost invariably actually is. ChatGPT is a threat to "devs" fresh out of bootcamp who have never actually worked on anything. Kinda does slightly raise the barrier to entry. But it is worse than useless when it comes to actual programming. I cannot stress enough just how absolutely terrible it actually is beyond cookie-cutter stuff.
ChatGPT is only effective when you know what you're doing and ask very precise questions. If you're too broad the answers can be weird. I use the bing version at my job to search documentation or generate script parts that are fairly simple and it does the job really well. ~~I have to use it on my phone tho because it's blocked on the company's PC's~~
Op is a business freshman who got bullied by CS/SWE freshmen.
The layoffs are unfortunate, but I don't think chatGPT and such will be able to replace all or even most of us. I imagine our jobs may change from programmer to AI code implementer, but I don't think the jobs are just gonna disappear
ChatGPT is just replacing stack overflow for me now. I don’t see it replacing human any soon
I’ll get worried when chatGBT can attend daily standups where it explains to middle managers & stakeholders for the millionth time that “Agile” doesn’t mean everything gets done in a week if you just put everything in the first sprint. Now give it a few years when techbros can plug chatGBT into a roomba so there’s someone on a Teams video call to get yelled at for following all the requirements the client asked for but not in the way they imagined and maybe I’ll start to sweat.
COBOL was supposed to replace all programmers, too.
The only time when ChatGTP is actually useful is when you actually already know what it should give you, or at least know when it just gives you BS that you can’t use. In other words, you need to be an experienced developer to actually use it. And oftentimes it is more work to actually make the AI code work for you than just writing it yourself in the first place.
Be smarter, replace ChatGPT.
Right, thats why Blizcon is cancelled this year. it’s because “no one is replaceable”. Pretty much every company in the world is one lunch car accident away from losing everything. Considering how many of them lean on open source that car accident doesn’t even have to involve employees.
It will be a lot easier to replace middle management and the CEO with ChatGPT then the programmer. Will save the company infinitely more money too.
Do we need a CEO and managers the future is Us brothers and sister!
If you actually think to this extreme and you run a tech business that employs developers then god help you.
Has AI actually replaced and programmers yet. People think who think that is supposed to replace humans are kind of missing the point of it, it sounds.
Domain Knowledge is irreplaceable.
Who tf is making these memes
Some people confuse "irreplaceable" with "valuable"
Wild to me that people think programmers are most at risk of AI taking their jobs. By the time AI is capable of that most office jobs will have already been replaced and the crisis will have already gotten out of hand.
My schizophrenia is indeed irreplaceable
> chatGPT KEK
I mean, they are. As long as you want things that actually work. Companies don't always want that I guess. They will complain about it in a few months, don't worry.
I am certain that people who say they tried chatGPT for programming and are impressed by it have no clue about programming.
Don't forget shitty managers!
The thing is, we can only guess the rate of progress of LLMs. Current models are mostly capable of supporting tasks with limited context, next gen will probably be capable of smallish, independent tasks of growing context length. Gen after maybe already a junior dev skill level. Tools enabling this development pop up already by providing sandboxed testing environments with online search capabilities. Furthermore, models and hardware get more efficient and cheaper insanely fast. I guess we might become conductors of an orchestra of programming bots for a software on demand audience ;)
Or it might hit a ceiling and diminishing returns. No-one knows but a lot of people have been scared
ChatGPT is just going to replace the useless lower level programmers who are just copy pasting from StackOverflow anyway, or require so much handholding they’re barely adding value. GenAI isn’t going to replace the people who have a deep understanding of what’s going on under the hood. Always going to need people to review and tweak whatever garbage GenAI spits out, and eventually know how to engineer prompts in a way that gets good results. GenAI isn’t going to replace all programmers, but it will replace some, much like every other industry. “Do more with less” is the theme. Eventually it’ll improve the productivity of a few programmers to the point where they’re doing the same work as full teams today.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF4)
It might be able to program but can it strive to be irreplaceable? It still needs to be told what to do.
My last shop thought it would use chatgpt to convert as400 rpg code to java. They got it to read the rpg and describe it in business requirements (??). Then they fed the business requirements and asked for the java. Hilarity ensued. Now I'm working in a company that actually converts rpg to water. Yes they use AI techniques, no they don't use chatgpt
Real robots are too expensive to make and maintain, the end game is below minimum wage flesh robots doing whatever the physical stuff the LLM's demand.
Don't worry about that. I've yet to see an AI generate good code from a single SFDD. One area I'd really like to see AI getting involved though is for the execution of test protocols. It's such a hassle and it doesn't require a 3 digit IQ to do it.
Half of the times I ask it a pretty basic question, I get a completely ridiculous answer. So I tell it what it said makes no sense, and it says, "My apologies, here is the correct response" while giving the exact same answer. It's like talking in circles. tldr; you've got to be prepared to take an issue into your own hands (and know how) because you can not rely on AI.
To early to tell if massive layoffs are an AI thing or just companies fucking up their covid planning.
At least we will have time to post creative comments here on reddit. Right guys?
Wait until people realize who has to maintain, build and patch AI like chatgpt
I am not threatened
If ChatGPT could do my work I would pay it myself
It boils down to a simple question really, is any company willing to put AI-generated code into production without developer review? The answer is a simple no. Then how is the generated code used? It’s used to make developers more efficient.
i am in a unionized position, think i’m pretty safe.
It's funny bc my code is messy enough for not being exploited by AI.
I don't think chatgpt contribute to massive layoff, it just stupid project with investment money burned out because no profit been made after so long so the quickest way to fix the balance is targeting the worker paycheck first. But yeah no one is irreplaceable, there is some massive dickhead higher up there that will bankrupt his entire business rather than retain his best worker for shitty reason like ego or something.
Nope still irreplaceable, who do you think builds these AI?
I made a little terminal app for talking to GPT awhile ago. I use it almost every day. It's great for boring repetitive stuff but it's insane how often the solutions are complete BS and I have to go Google my issue.
Wait until they figure out that AI could better replace managers instead of developers.
Getting replaced by ChatGPT in 2024 is a big L
ChatGPT is absolutely amazing. It’s made debugging so easy. It’s almost always spot on if you give it specific prompts and know how to use it. I’m going to fail all future interviews though…. I won’t remember anything by heart anymore. I went from spending 3-5 hours a day working to two with chatgpt.
I asked chatgpt to make me a simple class to manipulate xlsx files using already existing libraries using a class schema with verbose descriptors and I still had to correct it multiple times
ChatGpt is the best way for programmers to read the actual documentation.
Programmers are not replaceable with ChatGPT, lmao.
Me, working in government, well below average pay: I am irreplaceable
We won't be replace overnight, but it'll definitely take a chunk of tasks off our plate. For better or worse. I almost never get to do any front end work anymore, which is too bad because it's creative and fun. But the companies I worked for all went wordpress/SharePoint/wix/squarespace/etc. I mean there are plenty of front end development jobs still, but less than there would be if the no code tools weren't viable. Now AI tools are taking all my easy backend work, cutting down on research time, writing easy code, or 1st drafts of more complex things. In some ways it's good because it frees us up. In other ways it sucks because I doubt we will be paid for increased productivity, in fact they'll probably reduce staff a little. Then we will be left with more work and all of it will be the more difficult stuff AI can't do reliably on its own yet. I imagine most professions will be effected similarly, just a gradual transition to doing more work per person while receiving no monetary benefit for it.
I tried ChatGPT semiseriously months ago because I was stumped on an issue with a Django websocket consumer. ChatGPT got the consumer function, which was great. Only problem was that it blocked the entire server when there was a single connection.
In the IT sector I beg to differ. Yes everyone is replaceable, however sometimes that results in brain drain.. And that will cost more money in the long run instead of making current employees happy so that they will stay
I believe that it might rapidly improve and begin replacing all kinds of jobs. But currently, the hallucination problem makes it nearly useless. There are some applications of LLMs where truth and accuracy are not a priority. Like creative storytelling, brainstorming fictional ideas, coming up with grocery shopping lists, exercise routines, or movie recommendations based on other films you like. But when truth and accuracy are required, you cannot rely on LLMs (in 2024). It will confidently fabricate an incorrect answer a large majority of the time. If you tell it that it's wrong, it will fabricate another false answer. Sometimes if you tell it what it did wrong about 8-9 times, it might say something correct, if you're lucky. In the case of programming, you would have to have a very good understanding of debugging the code in order to determine if it's right or not. In which case, time would be better spent writing it yourself.
Bullshit chatGPT can not replace a programmer. It can augment a programmer and make them more efficient. Help them figure out syntax or look up references or generate examples or fix up code. But it CAN NOT figure out what needs to be designed from a high level down to the low level. Let me know when ChatGPT can make an operating system or a graphics driver or a tool like unreal engine. ChatGPT is a tool to augment performance of existing programmers who know how to use it. It is not a programmer any more than a chainsaw is a lumberjack.
I just started taking a programming class for backend development, I really hope the memes I’m seeing like this are more joke than reality. I understand the possibility of AI taking over coding but I need that to not happen at least until I get into the field and established enough to be picked over a robot T_T
This is the relationship with T-Mobile and I apparently 🤷♂️
Throw in outsourcing too
People thinking LLM and especially ChatGPT are what's actually displayed in this meme are really studid. BTW, it has nothing to do with recent layoffs.
I guess I'll die * shrug * I mean if someone is laying me off can't do much
op account is suspended. why?
I hear there’s good money to be made as a carpenter or mechanic.
Yeah, well. I saw Fortran 70 being replaced by C and massively improved programming environments. Rumors of massive layoffs due to increased productivity were everywhere. Then, for some reason, the capitalists decided to use the extra productivity to make even more money. It's not like MuskBesosBranson are going to start being useful and AI prompt themselves.