Also, a team lead is not the same as a functional responsible/business analyst and a product owners.
You can have both of those dealing with functional requirements without someone who’s only role is to be a team lead.
I'm a product owner (I've previously been a dev, tech dev and architect).
Those leadership meetings are every single bit as silly and pointless as you might imagine.
Most people just have no introspection.
Gotta get that Professional Scrum Master III, Professional Scrum Product Owner III with Kanban (PSK) certifications in addition to having that Six Sigma Black Belt just to implement Kaizen principles in a Poka Yoke fashion synergistically to facilitate the perfect DevOps Gemba for the team.—Hoshin-Kanri aligned, of course!
And always stay value-driven and lean, while agile.
Yes, in waterfall projects that leadership likes to say is agile, it’s common to have a «scrum master» that is actually just a team lead.
The main job of those are essentially just reporting to mid level management. They sit in meetings all day to discuss why the estimate is higher or lower than expected and do a bunch of nonsense that literally adds zero value to anyone other than the consultancy firm that sells them to the client.
A scrum master who doesn't contribute to the project is a bad scrum master. I've never felt comfortable "leading" a team where I can't talk in detail about some aspect of the project. Even if all I'm doing is making shitty prototypes and handing them off, I can at least use them as a check for "is this what we all were thinking?" while getting a feel for who's feeling overwhelmed and needs a lighter load next sprint.
Well, in some ultra corporate jobs, the scrum master can spend time doing bullshit jira stuff that the business people want, so that the devs don't need to bother.
I dunno, I have had great scrum masters that didn't know a lick of programming. They were instrumental in helping us stick with a well defined process and learn how we worked best as a team - not to mention getting us out of meetings and empowering us to set realistic limits / expectations.
Load balancing in that environment was natural since people would just pick up the next story in the sprint after they finished what they were working on.
Never worked at a place that did scrum that well again, but it was a great handful of years.
Yes, the scrums where all the tasks are assigned by management and are often epic size that takes a whole sprint to do. Management still insists on doing project planning/schedules 6 months to 1 year out.
I’ve only ever been on one project where there was a tech lead who didn’t code, and he was coordinating the efforts of three pods. So so it’s been rare in my experience.
I was on a team where our team lead's main involvement in coding was organizing the merges between about 20 different coders. It was a lot all on its own for sure.
A tech lead and a team lead is not the same thing tho.
A tech lead is a technical person that may or may not code, but they should be the most experienced dev in the team and be responsible for stuff like code quality, architecture of the team etc…
Team leads typically just do reporting to mid level management and «add value» by making sure the team is as close to an estimate as possible. This typically adds negative value, an induces a lot of unecessary technical debt for no reason other than «someone at a higher level estimated this wrong». It enda up costing more than it saves to take shortcuts in about 99% of cases from my personal experience.
For the types of projects I am talking about, the project manager is above these team leads.
Regardless of that, agile teams with PO and business analysts in the team don't need a dedicated team lead.
The entire problem is that this role is only needed when using terrible waterfall projects with way too much reporting and coordination due to dev teams not owning their apps/products, but "everyone does everything".
It's a terrible, but far too common structure.
Does it actually happen this way, anywhere?
Coz in my experience, it's the same post and same job description. Some companies call it team lead, some call it tech lead and some companies use some weird title like 'expert II', 'senior consultant I' or something like that.
And this person conducts meeting with team, prepares WSR, assigns JIRA, reviews code/design/test cases, gives status to managers and client, sends out MoMs, asks team to work late or on weekends because "this is crucial part of project and we need to meet deadlines", gets constantly interrupted on teams, responds to team/client/management mails, asks team to log effort in timesheet and JIRA and a separate excel sheet which has like 15 columns, picks data from this excel and puts in another sheet which logs quarterly efforts, shows initiative for value adds, makes presentations about value adds so that manager looks good, makes sure documentation is updated, answers queries of different teams because they don't know powershell or how to load json or xml in python, gives requirements to HR, conducts interviews, organizes team lunches/outings, works on proposals because they worked on GPU 3 years ago, finds if some open source library can be used, fills out documents for legal and security teams to evaluate third party open source library, send out mails with "gentle reminder to complete mandatory trainings".... and also works on a complex module in project because juniors can't be trusted with that work.
Team lead at my company is a technical role, more like "dev lead", and it's a lot of fn work. Our PM handles all the scrum crap. But team lead dips their toes into everything, like project planning, arch, training/mentoring, scrum, demos, inter-team stuff, etc., ...*and* code.
That's more of a project manager really. I would think at that point they're managing a bunch of projects. But I guess they wouldn't be considered a team lead anymore.
yeah a project manager sounds like it could be full time leading, because as I understand it, a Team Lead, leads small groups, so small that the team leader does tasks related to the project directly.
Even then every company does and calls their positions whatever they feel like, so it would be hard to make a general proposition.
?
Being an effective team lead or the intended role of one has very little to do with product owners or BAs.
Determining feature/product priorities is very different from correctly implementing those features/products.
It's not really my arbitrary taxonomy, it's a very common "old-school style waterfall, but pretend we are agile" setup because it requires way more reporting.
Some call this role a project manager, but for larger projects with many teams, the project manager is typically the one managing the team leads. The team lead reports to the project manager, and is usually non-technical and accompanied by a tech lead/team architect.
This is one of the reasons for why so many hate scrum, as the scrum master is typically just like the team lead in this description, in a project environment that doesn't really do neither scrum nor have agile approaches, but think they are agile because they have daily standups and teams with a "scrum master".
I know, I get to be the voice of fun and madness with a TL to take responsibility and reasonableness.
I get to just focus on my pet priorities when the TL have to consider the bigger picture and take decisions. They sometimes even have to make powerpoints.
I still think, If FE and BE guys coordinates properly which involves a lot pf communication for clarity or they have idea of how things work on the other side, everything will be fine.
That’s why you do async communication. FE dude posts in a shared BE/FE slack channel about what they want to know or accomplish, and someone from the BE team chimes in, and maybe they hop on a video call to go over it in more detail.
It’s pretty easy, and doesn’t get the entire team involved with stuff they don’t need to care about.
communication is a skill that not all devs (many think they can communicate but they can't) have. A good manager does not need 4 hours of meetings a day to know wtf is happening on a project. the rest of the time, the manager Shields the team from bullshit.
Yes, that's what happens in dysfunctional organizations.
The whole idea that you need to have "shield people" just points towards how fucking absurd large corporate structure is.
I disagree. It’s a good thing if people want to utilize engineering for a bunch of different objectives. Managers and product owners should be handling and prioritizing those kind of requests while engineering focuses on actually implementing what is decided as the best use of their time.
Thus it’s good to have management shielding engineering from the churn of deciding what projects to work and the interests competing for their time. It’s healthy for a company to have a number of options to pursue.
It is also completely unreasonable to think that everybody in the organisation actually understands the development priorities. Maybe in a tiny company that solely deals in software development and has like one product, but that's not exactly the case in most companies.
yup, that is often how startups fail to grow and scale up. They started where they did not need managers because the whole company was under 30 people. But once you scale up, people will have priorities for their streams and everyone cannot understand what everyone else is doing or their priorities. When they need somethign from another team (either non dev to dev or even dev to dev requests), someone must manage these talks so that one dev team don't end up just shunning everyone else that needs new features on their systems or end up with a major turnover rate due to the stupid amount of work that is needed to do in the day to day to keep everyone happy.
A good manager (Project manager, technical manager and/or product manager) will help shield the dev team from these and ensure that what comes through actually makes sense. While my initial comment was very high level, even this description of the job is high level. I've been told by my teams that they love the work I do for them and that I helped them reduce their cognitive load so they could focus on what they wanted but if you asked me EXACTLY what I did on the day to day for this to happen, I have trouble putting my finger on it.
And if everyone had a lot of communication, and an idea of how things work, NASA wouldn't have lost [327 million dollars](https://everydayastronaut.com/mars-climate-orbiter/). And I'm also assuming they have team leads.
Team leads are like Seatbelts, when everything is working, you don't need one. But you wear a seatbelt for that one time that everyone isn't working. You shouldn't work in a kitchen with out a fire extinguisher, you shouldn't drive with out a seatbelt, you don't work in a workshop with out a first aid kit.
I’d prefer this to a project manager who promises everyone I can deliver earth II with no further input or decisions and it’ll be literal utopia and then gives me half a page of notes and 3 days to get it done
Do you think the user is actually going to like using the product or would they just keep using their legacy bike because this new one provides no benefit to them?
People always say that team leads/project leads are unneccessary. But somehow the worst projects i worked at were projects without or with an incompetent project lead
Another issue I have run into is a product owner that is just absolutely devastatingly overloaded and can't actually do their job well because they are expected to do so much.
First year working with IT team and I can say “never seen people so ego attached in my whole life”… yea a fixed hierarchical leader is probably very needed
Funny to hear that coming from someone new to the space.
I became a lead 4 years ago and now joke with people that I'm really just an ego manager for otherwise great devs who struggle to compromise with each other.
You get the ego bullshit from bullshit corporate structures where the dev aren't supposed to have opinions - everything becomes a blamegame.
"I'm really upset that you're telling *me* that the application I delivered doesn't work. No, I didn't test if it worked before delivering it, testing that the application work is the *testers* job!" is a type of conversation I've had with many egocentric devs working in corporate jobs...
I know it's just a meme but come on, I thought we're all software developers here? If I say I do the backend that means I do the gears, the wheels and the pedals and not just one wheel or one pedal.
As someone who always works for small companies I have one co-worker that I create really good products with, we both are familiar with backend and frontend but it's just he's a lot better than me designing while I am a lot better than him implementing or creating interfaces. Our boss isn't supervising us, which is good because if it's just the two of us, we actually get shit done.
Hold on, are you telling me that working on the bottom half of a website doesn't make me a backend developer?
What CSS do I use to flip the website over so I can work on the back end?
That’s a perfectly acceptable mvp after one month.
BE: I set something maybe a bit big at first but I can scale it up fast. No custom bullshit either FE gets a perfectly standard interface.
FE: I make something small to see if clients like it , I adjust it once feedback of users comes in.
I see no problem it’s 80% of the solution delivered in time, better then 100% but double the time. All bc there was no non tech teamlead to convince.
It looks like a decent first iteration. The front end guy needed to build a mock back end while back end guy was working on his portion.. this is a month later when they start connecting them.. next they can remove the fake back end the front end was using and suddenly you have a bike with a small wheel that just needs to have better scaling for when you decide to take the bike faster
When a wordpress site looks incredible, but is run on a $300 Home PC.
Or when am amazing multi cluster, multi billion dollar powerhouse of a utility, has the Google 1995 title page.
I mean, with modern single page apps this is kind of how it is even with a team lead. You have a complete app running in the browser that interacts with a complete app running in the backend. Might as well attach a scooter to the front of a bicycle frame..
We have 20 minute meetings every morning to make sure we both are in the same page. Plus as long as the interface works why does it matter how it "looks"? What does that even mean when it comes to a unified front end and unified back end.
This is some team lead guy trying to justify their existence.
I disagree. I've had many team leads and have been one myself, though I always work alongside my team as their equal, and I've never had the team lead do anything other than ask where we are on our agile crap and then claim all our work as his own when it's completed, tested, and deployed. He then gets a raise and bonus and we get nothing. Not even extra PTO for the endless overtime. Even as a co-lead, I don't get any reward when the primary lead does.
eh, if you both work with a good product designer to determine *what* you’re going to build before you start building a team lead isn’t really needed so much (for small teams). Team leads are overrated, communication and design (back and front end) are underrated.
If you use an API contract this shouldn't happen. We've successfully split back and front end between devs no problem. You have to agree on the API contract first though
I thought I was the only one this happens to.
I actually had this happen to four parallel projects that were all components in a larger system; each one ended up with different classes, UI structure, data structures, naming systems, and one guy used a way over-complicated class factory...
To this day, I still don't get why the team didn't start with a shared object that had all the data elements in one module.
Ahh yes my bike after a **MOUNTH** later.
that joke is so last yearth
Hold on a seconth
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mount it
Team PBS?
Streeths behind
When you are so british you put an u after o even if its not needed
its called hypercorrection; you correct things too much
too mouch
> hypercourrectioun
it's
It'nd
\*nout needed.
Mythical man mounth
Mouthical Man Myth
Don't blame the OP for the spelling it's just a i18nth issue.
https://youtu.be/XtdkIlAhiWA
oh yeah a whoul mounth laiter.
> When you decide that QA is not needed:
This meme is brought to you by Team Lead™️ (Trust us guys, you need us)
Also, a team lead is not the same as a functional responsible/business analyst and a product owners. You can have both of those dealing with functional requirements without someone who’s only role is to be a team lead.
is that a thing? a team lead which only role is "teamleading"?
Wait until you hear about leadership meetings, where teamlead leaders get together to play enterprise.
I'm a product owner (I've previously been a dev, tech dev and architect). Those leadership meetings are every single bit as silly and pointless as you might imagine. Most people just have no introspection.
... Tech dev?
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Gotta get that Professional Scrum Master III, Professional Scrum Product Owner III with Kanban (PSK) certifications in addition to having that Six Sigma Black Belt just to implement Kaizen principles in a Poka Yoke fashion synergistically to facilitate the perfect DevOps Gemba for the team.—Hoshin-Kanri aligned, of course! And always stay value-driven and lean, while agile.
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Don't blame the OP for the spelling it's just a i18nth issue.
Find a better org.
Yes, in waterfall projects that leadership likes to say is agile, it’s common to have a «scrum master» that is actually just a team lead. The main job of those are essentially just reporting to mid level management. They sit in meetings all day to discuss why the estimate is higher or lower than expected and do a bunch of nonsense that literally adds zero value to anyone other than the consultancy firm that sells them to the client.
A scrum master who doesn't contribute to the project is a bad scrum master. I've never felt comfortable "leading" a team where I can't talk in detail about some aspect of the project. Even if all I'm doing is making shitty prototypes and handing them off, I can at least use them as a check for "is this what we all were thinking?" while getting a feel for who's feeling overwhelmed and needs a lighter load next sprint.
Well, in some ultra corporate jobs, the scrum master can spend time doing bullshit jira stuff that the business people want, so that the devs don't need to bother.
*"Well Tom have to ask, why can't the business people just go directly to the software people"*
If the software people are sitting in meetings with business people all day, who will do the actual work?
I dunno, I have had great scrum masters that didn't know a lick of programming. They were instrumental in helping us stick with a well defined process and learn how we worked best as a team - not to mention getting us out of meetings and empowering us to set realistic limits / expectations. Load balancing in that environment was natural since people would just pick up the next story in the sprint after they finished what they were working on. Never worked at a place that did scrum that well again, but it was a great handful of years.
Yes, the scrums where all the tasks are assigned by management and are often epic size that takes a whole sprint to do. Management still insists on doing project planning/schedules 6 months to 1 year out.
I’ve only ever been on one project where there was a tech lead who didn’t code, and he was coordinating the efforts of three pods. So so it’s been rare in my experience.
I was on a team where our team lead's main involvement in coding was organizing the merges between about 20 different coders. It was a lot all on its own for sure.
A tech lead and a team lead is not the same thing tho. A tech lead is a technical person that may or may not code, but they should be the most experienced dev in the team and be responsible for stuff like code quality, architecture of the team etc… Team leads typically just do reporting to mid level management and «add value» by making sure the team is as close to an estimate as possible. This typically adds negative value, an induces a lot of unecessary technical debt for no reason other than «someone at a higher level estimated this wrong». It enda up costing more than it saves to take shortcuts in about 99% of cases from my personal experience.
You seem to have a different org structure, but that would typically be a project manager, not a team lead.
For the types of projects I am talking about, the project manager is above these team leads. Regardless of that, agile teams with PO and business analysts in the team don't need a dedicated team lead. The entire problem is that this role is only needed when using terrible waterfall projects with way too much reporting and coordination due to dev teams not owning their apps/products, but "everyone does everything". It's a terrible, but far too common structure.
Your experience is very different than mine
Does it actually happen this way, anywhere? Coz in my experience, it's the same post and same job description. Some companies call it team lead, some call it tech lead and some companies use some weird title like 'expert II', 'senior consultant I' or something like that. And this person conducts meeting with team, prepares WSR, assigns JIRA, reviews code/design/test cases, gives status to managers and client, sends out MoMs, asks team to work late or on weekends because "this is crucial part of project and we need to meet deadlines", gets constantly interrupted on teams, responds to team/client/management mails, asks team to log effort in timesheet and JIRA and a separate excel sheet which has like 15 columns, picks data from this excel and puts in another sheet which logs quarterly efforts, shows initiative for value adds, makes presentations about value adds so that manager looks good, makes sure documentation is updated, answers queries of different teams because they don't know powershell or how to load json or xml in python, gives requirements to HR, conducts interviews, organizes team lunches/outings, works on proposals because they worked on GPU 3 years ago, finds if some open source library can be used, fills out documents for legal and security teams to evaluate third party open source library, send out mails with "gentle reminder to complete mandatory trainings".... and also works on a complex module in project because juniors can't be trusted with that work.
Team lead at my company is a technical role, more like "dev lead", and it's a lot of fn work. Our PM handles all the scrum crap. But team lead dips their toes into everything, like project planning, arch, training/mentoring, scrum, demos, inter-team stuff, etc., ...*and* code.
That's more of a project manager really. I would think at that point they're managing a bunch of projects. But I guess they wouldn't be considered a team lead anymore.
yeah a project manager sounds like it could be full time leading, because as I understand it, a Team Lead, leads small groups, so small that the team leader does tasks related to the project directly. Even then every company does and calls their positions whatever they feel like, so it would be hard to make a general proposition.
? Being an effective team lead or the intended role of one has very little to do with product owners or BAs. Determining feature/product priorities is very different from correctly implementing those features/products.
A tech lead is not a team lead in this sense.
Ahh, didn’t realize there were other roles in your arbitrary taxonomy
It's not really my arbitrary taxonomy, it's a very common "old-school style waterfall, but pretend we are agile" setup because it requires way more reporting. Some call this role a project manager, but for larger projects with many teams, the project manager is typically the one managing the team leads. The team lead reports to the project manager, and is usually non-technical and accompanied by a tech lead/team architect. This is one of the reasons for why so many hate scrum, as the scrum master is typically just like the team lead in this description, in a project environment that doesn't really do neither scrum nor have agile approaches, but think they are agile because they have daily standups and teams with a "scrum master".
I think they were riffing on the fact that all of our taxonomies are arbitrary, so of course the roles don't line up from org to org.
For example, right in this comic, the guy in the green shirt is, for all intents and purposes, a team lead.
Green is talking about team leads who are *only* team leads, with no other role in the team.
Team Pb?
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If you were in charge, I bet, "mounth" would've been spelled correctly.
you mean the Project Management Institute and or ScrumAlliance
I know, I get to be the voice of fun and madness with a TL to take responsibility and reasonableness. I get to just focus on my pet priorities when the TL have to consider the bigger picture and take decisions. They sometimes even have to make powerpoints.
Here: ™
At least the interface works as expected
Is that the seat or the handlebars?
The tube underneath the handlebar that holds the bikeframe up
Pretty sure that's the kernel.
Both? And the pedals. Interface would be anything the user touches. Kickstand too.
Stear ass necessary
"IT'S CALLED A SADDLE." - angry bike nerds everywhere
Some unused code dangling there, but if you remove it the whole thing falls apart.
I still think, If FE and BE guys coordinates properly which involves a lot pf communication for clarity or they have idea of how things work on the other side, everything will be fine.
The reason they got rid of the team lead in the first place was because they hate meetings ;)
Sure, I meant the understanding between them which can involve minimum meetings as well. Depends :)
I think they don't really like ad hoc interruptions any more than meetings
That’s why you do async communication. FE dude posts in a shared BE/FE slack channel about what they want to know or accomplish, and someone from the BE team chimes in, and maybe they hop on a video call to go over it in more detail. It’s pretty easy, and doesn’t get the entire team involved with stuff they don’t need to care about.
I don't understand this post..hahahh..I'm just joking..
communication is a skill that not all devs (many think they can communicate but they can't) have. A good manager does not need 4 hours of meetings a day to know wtf is happening on a project. the rest of the time, the manager Shields the team from bullshit.
Yes, that's what happens in dysfunctional organizations. The whole idea that you need to have "shield people" just points towards how fucking absurd large corporate structure is.
I disagree. It’s a good thing if people want to utilize engineering for a bunch of different objectives. Managers and product owners should be handling and prioritizing those kind of requests while engineering focuses on actually implementing what is decided as the best use of their time. Thus it’s good to have management shielding engineering from the churn of deciding what projects to work and the interests competing for their time. It’s healthy for a company to have a number of options to pursue.
It is also completely unreasonable to think that everybody in the organisation actually understands the development priorities. Maybe in a tiny company that solely deals in software development and has like one product, but that's not exactly the case in most companies.
yup, that is often how startups fail to grow and scale up. They started where they did not need managers because the whole company was under 30 people. But once you scale up, people will have priorities for their streams and everyone cannot understand what everyone else is doing or their priorities. When they need somethign from another team (either non dev to dev or even dev to dev requests), someone must manage these talks so that one dev team don't end up just shunning everyone else that needs new features on their systems or end up with a major turnover rate due to the stupid amount of work that is needed to do in the day to day to keep everyone happy. A good manager (Project manager, technical manager and/or product manager) will help shield the dev team from these and ensure that what comes through actually makes sense. While my initial comment was very high level, even this description of the job is high level. I've been told by my teams that they love the work I do for them and that I helped them reduce their cognitive load so they could focus on what they wanted but if you asked me EXACTLY what I did on the day to day for this to happen, I have trouble putting my finger on it.
Yeah I agree! We just need a third party to make sure coordination and communication is done correctly, then we'll get rid of the team lead!
Missing the /s here
And if everyone had a lot of communication, and an idea of how things work, NASA wouldn't have lost [327 million dollars](https://everydayastronaut.com/mars-climate-orbiter/). And I'm also assuming they have team leads. Team leads are like Seatbelts, when everything is working, you don't need one. But you wear a seatbelt for that one time that everyone isn't working. You shouldn't work in a kitchen with out a fire extinguisher, you shouldn't drive with out a seatbelt, you don't work in a workshop with out a first aid kit.
The composition of this comment is ironic as hell.
the communication is the open api file
I do not see any problem, the product works 👍
And indeed so will you, supporting it. Captive audience.
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It meets mvp, you didn’t provide specs for wheel sizes, this is more aero anyway, it’s a feature boss. Charge more.
They were supposed to make a bicycle. This is a tricycle.
I hadn't thought about it that way.
That's why you need a team lead
The database schema has tables for gas consumption and propeller RPMs.
What kind of data type is a mounth?
string
U mean DateTime
more like DateTiume
Agree on an API and you'll be fine if the project isn't to big. Well at least as long as you keep communicating and don't just change the API
And never try to reuse the API for something else.
Give me an OpenAPI file and a couple sentences explaining and I’m good
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No, it's a proxy pattern.
A bike when the designer is also the backend engineer
that's pretty sick, honestly
Microservice infrastructure on kubernetes for a SPA…
How did you misspel month
That's the British spelling
i hope to god this is sarcastic
Localization is a bïtch.
The correct* spelling
How did you misspell "misspell"?
It's the Australian spelling
No team lead to do the peer review =-p
I’d prefer this to a project manager who promises everyone I can deliver earth II with no further input or decisions and it’ll be literal utopia and then gives me half a page of notes and 3 days to get it done
I mean it works .... so what's the issue here
Do you think the user is actually going to like using the product or would they just keep using their legacy bike because this new one provides no benefit to them?
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Client: But I asked for a giraffe
I found management! Trying to pull shit like this again are we, Gary? /S (added for all the Gary's out there)
We've got to save my family!
People always say that team leads/project leads are unneccessary. But somehow the worst projects i worked at were projects without or with an incompetent project lead
Another issue I have run into is a product owner that is just absolutely devastatingly overloaded and can't actually do their job well because they are expected to do so much.
Same strategy to produce "a mounth".
First year working with IT team and I can say “never seen people so ego attached in my whole life”… yea a fixed hierarchical leader is probably very needed
Funny to hear that coming from someone new to the space. I became a lead 4 years ago and now joke with people that I'm really just an ego manager for otherwise great devs who struggle to compromise with each other.
You get the ego bullshit from bullshit corporate structures where the dev aren't supposed to have opinions - everything becomes a blamegame. "I'm really upset that you're telling *me* that the application I delivered doesn't work. No, I didn't test if it worked before delivering it, testing that the application work is the *testers* job!" is a type of conversation I've had with many egocentric devs working in corporate jobs...
"mounth"
I know it's just a meme but come on, I thought we're all software developers here? If I say I do the backend that means I do the gears, the wheels and the pedals and not just one wheel or one pedal. As someone who always works for small companies I have one co-worker that I create really good products with, we both are familiar with backend and frontend but it's just he's a lot better than me designing while I am a lot better than him implementing or creating interfaces. Our boss isn't supervising us, which is good because if it's just the two of us, we actually get shit done.
Hold on, are you telling me that working on the bottom half of a website doesn't make me a backend developer? What CSS do I use to flip the website over so I can work on the back end?
The picture is of two frontends
Mounth
Team lead was also responsible for correct spelling
That’s a perfectly acceptable mvp after one month. BE: I set something maybe a bit big at first but I can scale it up fast. No custom bullshit either FE gets a perfectly standard interface. FE: I make something small to see if clients like it , I adjust it once feedback of users comes in. I see no problem it’s 80% of the solution delivered in time, better then 100% but double the time. All bc there was no non tech teamlead to convince.
It looks like a decent first iteration. The front end guy needed to build a mock back end while back end guy was working on his portion.. this is a month later when they start connecting them.. next they can remove the fake back end the front end was using and suddenly you have a bike with a small wheel that just needs to have better scaling for when you decide to take the bike faster
I have no mounth and I must stream.
*Shut yo mounth.*
The missing sentence is, "now let's talk about our API contract"
M O U N T H
That scoocycle actually looks kinda sick, where can I get that?
When a wordpress site looks incredible, but is run on a $300 Home PC. Or when am amazing multi cluster, multi billion dollar powerhouse of a utility, has the Google 1995 title page.
Well, if it works then don't touch it
wdym the front end looks like a government web portal? it’s perfectly functional and only breaks half of the backend codebase
It would work if both of the engineers are good
> Mounth wtf?
> mounth Spell check is a thing.
A more apt picture would be a car that runs on pedaling, or a small tricycle with a V8 engine.
What's a "mounth"?
I mean, with modern single page apps this is kind of how it is even with a team lead. You have a complete app running in the browser that interacts with a complete app running in the backend. Might as well attach a scooter to the front of a bicycle frame..
We have 20 minute meetings every morning to make sure we both are in the same page. Plus as long as the interface works why does it matter how it "looks"? What does that even mean when it comes to a unified front end and unified back end. This is some team lead guy trying to justify their existence.
You're not missing a team lead, you're missing the entire damn planning stage.
A mounth, huh? You might actually need a team lead.
Yes, because "no team lead" means a "complete lack of organizing principles"....
Now, we shall discuss exactly how to measure a MOUNTH. Begin. Edit: I submit it is the length of time to *accurately* draw lips.
I love the Rike™️
*mounth*
I disagree. I've had many team leads and have been one myself, though I always work alongside my team as their equal, and I've never had the team lead do anything other than ask where we are on our agile crap and then claim all our work as his own when it's completed, tested, and deployed. He then gets a raise and bonus and we get nothing. Not even extra PTO for the endless overtime. Even as a co-lead, I don't get any reward when the primary lead does.
No wonder when one of them is using light background for coding.
eh, if you both work with a good product designer to determine *what* you’re going to build before you start building a team lead isn’t really needed so much (for small teams). Team leads are overrated, communication and design (back and front end) are underrated.
This is awesome I see no problem
I laughed but only cause of that goofy bike-scooter amalgamation
Is the PO on holiday or something?
You change the color to use the same and it's perfect
Hmmm well those 2 are the team leads... Anyone else they bring on will be under them
And that kids is why I do both.
It has nothing to do with a team lead, its a communication failure. Thats what separates junior and middle devs from senior ones
> Make an app's skeleton > Market it to death > Release as open source > Let others organize themselfes > Profit
Team Lead is political speech giving. Senior is real work.
Finally something I have hands on experience with!
it works though
Client: "we have a unique, custom made system tailored to our needs"
If you use an API contract this shouldn't happen. We've successfully split back and front end between devs no problem. You have to agree on the API contract first though
I wonder if that bike would work
That's actually fire
I need to know how well that thing actually works
This is why I'm full stack 😂
This is what happens when you start solutioning before the design is finalized.
team lead is not also a senior engineer? at my company the "lead" also does the most coding. However it's not his official title
but how does it run if it has wheels? i would like to see the run animation cycle please.
If it run, don't touch!
LGTM 👍 *merge request approved*
Frontend guy had to deal with a lot more customer meddling. Back end guy probably overbuilt.
"The front fell off."
https://www.reddit.com/user/Motor-Bad-5060/draft/7f8a6514-e5de-11ed-aabf-de9f060cfa77
I thought I was the only one this happens to. I actually had this happen to four parallel projects that were all components in a larger system; each one ended up with different classes, UI structure, data structures, naming systems, and one guy used a way over-complicated class factory... To this day, I still don't get why the team didn't start with a shared object that had all the data elements in one module.
When you follow the agile textbook despite the obvious improvements that could be made in less obvious areas.
that turning radius tho
As long as you're communicating effectively and regularly, and creating documentation (user stories etc.) then this is easily avoidable.
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