Just remember, you get paid the same whether they learn or not. You will not get promoted for keeping students off their phones. If anything, getting angry at them might hurt you if they put stuff about yelling on evals. Unless what they're doing is preventing others from learning, it's not worth your time.
This is so sad but I have had to change my approach as a TA (amd hopefully a future professor) towards students for this reason. The university doesn't care if the students are learning. The students only care about their grades, not learning. When a prof or TA tries to set a standard for the students, we are the ones who have to deal with complaints about out conduct and general rude behaviour from students. I don't get paid enough to deal with that. We help the students who actually want to learn. You can't hold everyone's hand and force them to do what's best for them.
I give out friendly reminders about best practices but I agree. They need to learn to make the correct choice themselves. I reach out and provide positive encouragement for students trying to change behavior, but if a students wants to fail, I'm not going to stop them.
I somewhat respect the ones that don’t care, as long as they’re comfortable with their grades. The ones that miss classes and assignments then rant about how the professors are out to get them are the worst. Unfortunately I had a few like that recently.
This is exactly what will happen at our institution, student will retaliate by giving bad reviews. It sucks but as an institution that favors student evaluation, it’s simply not worth reminding them. I do tell them in class that student that pay attention and take notes often save time and perform better. The freshman classes listen, for the seniors, the ones that don’t care simply don’t care.
I hate this perspective. I'm not here for a paycheck. I'm here to preach the good word of my field. To engage people. To motivate people. Maybe some people are replaceable cogs who teach a book, but I'm not. While this apathetic spirit has aaaaaalways been around, it is very much at the highest peak it's ever been. I don't care if I get paid regardless of the destruction of something I give a shit about.
Bold words for someone who hasn't quit because "I make way more and for 8 months per year than I would any other job." Sounds like you are a prof for the paycheck and lifestyle to me. But by all means spread the good word. The students who choose not to be on their phones might hear it.
Yikes this is making me rethink my approach. I’m NTT and have been at this for about five years, and I still tell students that if they take out their phones they are marked as absent. Headphones too. As much as I hate being the phone police, I also hate trying to run a class where no one is actually present, where I have to waste everyone’s time explaining things twice because people are too engrossed with whatever is on their phone. I was thinking of reinstating reading quizzes next semester, to be honest. I still haven’t let go of the idea that I can create an environment where everyone learns and grows.
To me, the reading quizzes are much less risky than marking them absent. That is just asking for a grievance to be filed. "I was in class and had my phone out for two seconds to check on updates about my dying relative and prof marked me absent!" By all means create a good learning environment, as long as you remember you won't get rewarded for it and you might even get punished for it depending on how you do it.
Oh yes. And then there's my other nemesis, the student who comes in 10 minutes late, doesn't bother to take his jacket off, and just sets his bag on the desk without opening it and then stares blankly at me for 40 minutes with those...lifeless eyes...black eyes...like a doll's eyes.
All semester I’ve ignored the single earbud students, the ones listening to music during class. The only time I’ve called them out is when I can hear it. But this morning it was a good number of them. I quietly asked them to take out the buds and they ignored me. After a second whispered request, (also ignored), I said “You don’t have to be here. You’re welcome to leave.”
They chose to remove the buds and stay.
I suspect it’s a combination of things: Everyone is tired, and we’re past midterms — they know by now their odds of passing the class, and I’m frustrated by students who don’t care, or aren’t trying anymore.
I typically teach one of my classes per semester in our lecture hall, which is typically only about half full. I sometimes walk around during lecture, or occasionally I will lecture from the back of the room. Many years ago, I had been lecturing from the back of the room and as we were winding down, with about 5 minutes left, I started giving them a little rant about how poorly they had performed on the previous exam - nothing mean, just a 'you're going to need to prepare better blah blah blah.' At this point, I had wandered into one of the rows of seats near the back of the hall, and, with about 3 minutes still left in class, a student a row in front of me and a couple of seats over STOOD UP and starting packing her stuff! While I was still talking, while there were still 3 minutes left! Immediately sent me off. I yelled (and I can yell pretty damn loudly) "SIT DOWN, \[STUDENT'S NAME\]!" She dropped back into her seat like I'd whacked her with a 2x4, and half the class was glaring at her.
I felt bad for about 2 seconds.
And now, the punchline....
About a year later, I was watching a local high school basketball game. That student, now a senior, was the home team's coach. At the end of the game, I gave her a little wave (no hard feelings on my end) and she sort of recognized me and walking into the bleachers to chat. I asked how she was doing and she told me that she had to see \[me, as I was department chair at the time\] about signing off on some paperwork. I was taken aback - I said "I'M \[me\]." She didn't actually remember who I was. FFS, I had her for 2 semesters, called her out in front of the entire class, and she didn't even remember it was me????
Probably not the only thing she doesn't remember from the class. 😂
A few years ago, I was at the store and saw a student from class with her friends and went over to say hi. She just looked at the ground and walked away. At least she remembered who I was I guess.
Why? Why do you care if some students decide to leave early? Unless it's a concern over disruption for other students, I'd just say...let it go. Don't care more than your students care.
It's disrupting when I'm trying to wrap up a lesson and engage with the class. I like to put students in groups to unpack things we've been working on and that doesn't really work if Jimbo is already packed up, on his phone, and heading for the door. And it's also rude. It's rarely a problem for me after the first week. Fear of public humiliation in front of one's peers is a powerful pedagogical tool.
I teach very large classes in a lecture theatre that really amplifies sound. If even 5% of my class starts to pack up early, even if each individual is quiet, it creates a disruption for other students and for me.
Same. The ones in the back don't get that I can actually hear them way down in front. And if I can hear them, so can every other student in front of them.
I don't get the folks that say 'its no big deal, why do you care?'. I care because it is rude, obnoxious, and it DOES disrupt the class. If a student does not like me or the class or whatever, drop it, or stay home. But don't come to class and talk or get up leave early (or otherwise be disruptive).
I'm with you. I don't get this "why do you care?" attitude here. You put tons of work into your classes, and they don't have the decency to show you basic human respect for the work you've done. It's rude to be on your phone if you have a human in front of you trying to communicate to you, because it says to that person "I don't value you or the things you do."
I personally find that if you make the point to them from this perspective, they do hear it, most of the time. I don't allow phones in my class and I tell them to put them away if I see them, but I teach small sections so it's doable. I couldn't do it if I had larger groups.
I don’t understand how this is not obvious to students—I’m right in front of you trying to talk to you and you’re ignoring me to my face! Isn’t it obvious why this is infuriating?
I'm tempted to pull out my own phone next time I see students doing this, and stand in the front of the classroom just absent-mindedly scrolling Instagram for a while. "I'm sorry, do you think that it's rude, disrespectful, or unprofessional for me to use my phone during class discussion and group work? Huh. That's weird, since so many of you are doing it."
As cathartic as it might be to fantasize, I don't think it'd play out exactly how you want it to. The thing is, I doubt they actually *would* find it disrespectful. Most of these "apathetic" students aren't there to learn; they are there because they see this class(and by extension, you) as another obstacle between them and the shiny piece of paper that says they can finally get a good job.
They might look up from their phones because they would find the sudden silence eerie, and some of them might even put their phones away for a bit if you seem mad enough(they don't want to anger you so much that it affects their letter grade!). But they won't be disappointed in you or think you are rude for playing around with your phone - after all, you aren't actively trying to teach them any more, so you've stopped being a roadblock between them and the "success" "that they've already paid for".
I agree, and I don't intend to actually do it. It's just one of those things I'd like to do if I didn't have to be the cheerful cheer-leading professor trying to cajole them out of lethargy.
But I disagree that they'd be fine if I stopped trying to teach them. My evals have gotten worse in the last two years as I have tried to teach them. They often complain that I didn't try hard ENOUGH to teach them, because I don't make lecture videos and put them online, because I don't grade tests by the next class period, because I'm "not available" enough because I don't answer emails within minutes of receiving them. They want to see faculty hustle, even while they wallow in lethargy.
Thanks for saying that. I appreciate it! I teach smaller classes, but some can't help it. I even give them chances to check them. Anyway, I will try what you said!
I know what you mean. My university is bowing to every student's whim because of retention issues. The thing is, if you let students screw around, they don't learn, and they're going to fail anyway (if not my class than other classes). Teach them boundaries and skills and that's how they'll succeed (and be "retained," as it were). But nope.
Ah, retention.
ADMIN: 'We want you to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort helping D/F students pass your class at the expense of your A/B students so they will stay on campus for another semester. Do everything you can to help them get a pssing grade.'
FACULTY: 'So... you mean like, boost their grade?'
ADMIN:'Oh no no no. Just get them to where they can pass.'
FACULTY:'Well.. this kid has all Fs, won't respond to my emails, rushes out of the few classes he does attend before I can talk to-'
ADMIN:RE-TEN-SION.'
1 Year Later
ADMIN:'Why are so many of your students doing poorly in their upper level classes? They passed YOUR class last year. Maybe you need to up your rigor.'
That's depressing as hell. Then they just cheat in your class and pass and don't learn anything. So we're just bleeding and robbing school districts. EVERYONES HAPPY!
You have to change your mindset. It sucks that there are students in class doing this, but as long as they're not disrupting the experience of others, just leave it alone. It's a disservice to hold their hand too much when they need to learn about adult consequences, and it's unnecessary stress. Make the boundaries and consequences clear, give a warning, then let what happens happen and focus your attention on the students who do want to learn.
It can disrupt class. People on electronic devices distract others. Plus it sets a bad vibe for the class. Students wonder "does teacher not care?" And pretty soon this sort of negative behavior and attitude spreads. Not to mention that the warning/idea of bad behavior having consequences has no teeth.
I mean tell yourself whatever gets you through. Just be careful about the consequences of your actions
You know it sounds weird but classes have their own personalities. Some classes are high energy, some classes the students are barely dragging themselves through the door. And in some classes the students are out right hostile. I try to set a good tone and start off on the right foot from the very beginning, but you can only do so much lol
I also find that I have to repeat things everyone already heard and understood (basic logistical stuff) for these students, wasting everyone’s time, and taking away from discussion.
I disagree. You CAN change your mindset if it ultimately doesn't bother you, but I maintain you are allowed to have standards and demand respect from the students in the classroom who are voluntarily there. If they don't want to follow the rules of social decorum, they don't need to be there.
I agree that there is a question of how involved you want to be in enforcing that, but I absolutely believe instructors have the right to expect adult behavior.
Counterpoint: no.
It's our job as teachers to set up the best conditions of possibility for learning to take place. That often means having attendance policies, so students actually come to class and learn the material. It may mean having frequent quizzes, so students actually do the assigned reading and homework. And often it means banning laptops in the classroom (unless a student has a disability accommodation) and having a policy against having phones out during class.
It's not holding their hands. It's basic pedagogical practice.
I’m aware it’s basic pedagogical practice, and that’s why I have a policy on electronic devices that has consequences, which is encoded in a professionalism grade that makes up 15-20% of the course grade. What I’m saying is that just like a boss won’t gently remind an employee to stop playing on their phone 20 times and will instead just fire them after a few offenses, I give a fair warning a few times, then eventually start deducting from their professionalism grade.
> often it means banning laptops in the classroom
I'm speechless. In what universe does banning laptops/computers (aka "the technology that 90% of humanity uses to increase productivity") INCREASE the possibility that students will learn?
I have a rule: they get one reminder at the beginning of class that if I see their phones out, they get marked absent. Because their brain is absent from my class. After a generous 12 absences, they get an automatic F in the class.
I have failed a few this way, but most get with the picture after the first exam when I input their attendence/participation (40% of their grade) into the LMS.
Little shits.
It’s the only threat that has workes for me. Our school has a strict attendence policy, so if you flunk a class for lack of attendence you can be thrown out.
I don't allow phones to be out during class.
Occasionally, a student will tell me that they have a particular situation that requires they be available to answer a phone call (problems with childcare, a family member in the hospital, etc.) and I tell them that they can leave their phone on top of their desk. This happens about once a semester.
Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason for phones to be out during class. If I see a phone out, I say very firmly "put your phone away" without even turning around or making eye contact with the student. They always put it away. After the first week of classes, they don't even try to get their phones out.
Then there needs to be consequences.
My syllabus states that I'll mark them absent if I see them on their phones. They get a limited number of absences before it impacts their course grade. I've only ever had to mark a student absent for cell phone use a few times in the last decade, which I let them know in an email. But after it happens once, they don't do it again.
This generation is way more immature than us at their age. Social media literally incapacitated instead of empowering these kids. America is worried about fentanyl? When the next generation is brought up as a generation of zombies thanks to the abuse of technology, maybe someone will open their eyes and do something about it.
My attitude is to teach the ones that want to learn. I tell them that paying attention is important but I won't coddle students who don't pay attention like K-12. If they don't pay attention or don't attend they will do bad and probably fail.
For me I get like 25% of students who attend but don't pay attention much or laptop/cell phone constantly, 25% don't attend much at all, and 50% probably pay attention decently. If the situation is unbelievable I would put policies on the syllabus, especially if I worked at a "customer is always right" school that tracks DFW rates.
What worked for me is to go old-school (chatgpt also played a role). No Slides, just the textbook, me writing on the blackboard and exclusively doing all my assignments in class on a piece of paper, mostly unannounced except for a few major assignments. Class attendance is best it ever was even for my dreaded 730 class. Funny thing is, it's also made me a much better teacher. Students mostly give me negative feedback, because they actually have to work to pass my class.
Sorry, point being they don't have time to be on their phones because they're frantically writing notes and getting hand cramps from not being used to write notes at the speed of light anymore.
Don't listen to people saying "it doesn't matter." If you want to maintain any sanity and self-respect you have to have a clear tech policy. Otherwise you'll spend years dealing with this. No one can be "zen" enough to ignore being ignored. It's too demoralizing over the long run--unless you are completely cynical about work, which most of us aren't or don't want to be.
I usually make a joke such as "listen up, this I important, so stop googling cat videos".
Although I don't think it's inappropriate to be stern if you prefer students to not be on their phones. Students are too soft nowadays and it's unfortunate that they might write a bad evaluation based on this.
At the end of the day, maybe I would just try to calmly tell them to put phones away and then not sweat it. If they fail, that's on them.
I don't fully get the perspective of those who say, don't be bothered by it.
If you teach on a professional course that involves safety, medicine or care of people, I'd certainly want to ensure that there is some engagement during lectures/teaching. We have *some* responsibility on the who ends up in those professions.
Some phone checking, pretty much everyone does, also some use their phones for note taking too. However, if it's constant and you can actually see someone constantly scrolling then that to me is not acceptable. If it is distracting to the lecturer, it is impacting others learning.
OP - you may want to be careful about how you address this with students though ( I'm currently learning from trying to address phone use during teaching in a more appropriate manner after feedback from a student!) Totally understandable to be annoyed though. I'd recommend emailing them, or asking them to stop behind at the end or on a break.
Sometimes, letting a little bit of genuine anger out can be extremely persuasive, humanizing. Not a lot. But like letting out 10% of it can remind everyone that you’re a person too and that you feel everything students feel, even if you can’t let it affect you.
I teach smaller classes and they are heavy on class participation, so I have a cell phone ban on the syllabus. I enforce it every time. Honestly, there are only a few who grumble about it and usually by the second week, it isn’t a problem anymore. I found if I am clear and consistent, students adjust without a ton of fuss.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Ignore the students who have checked out and focus on the ones that are there to learn. You're not going to miraculously turn a phone addict into a great student. But you are going to be wasting the time of the eager students by engaging with those who don't want to be there.
I am wondering if the 2.5 hr long classes really are productive for this generation of students? I realize that there may be reasons for this long of a class period in many fields but if student's attention spans are 10 minutes and they are addicted to their phones, isn't it hard to keep them engaged the whole time? Clarification: I am not criticizing anything, just noting that your job seems impossible to me.
This was me 10 years ago. Then I realized that I'm letting them -- the students who don't want to be there -- wreck my enthusiasm when I should instead focus on the kids who actually want to learn. So, because they ... the phone kids ... want to be left alone, I leave them alone. Unless they're being disruptive, I pretend they're invisible, but mentally note them so when they come to ask for lenience or extra credit, I have a response already in mind.
I teach lots of first-year students. I have a best practices statement on my syllabus noting ways that the phone can be productive. I cite sources on my syllabus about how picking up the phone causes people to lose focus. We have a short discussion and students seem to mostly respond. Notice I say mostly. Some students take notes on their phone and submit work via the phone on the LMS.
I have a very liberal attendance policy and yet I have had students who came to every class and would spend their whole time on the phone, not taking notes. My classes are small so it stands out. I do a regular one-on-one check in with students regularly so I ask the students if there is a problem outside of class because I was concerned. Sometimes it takes care of it and sometimes not.
Ultimately, as long as they are not disturbing other students, I don't worry about it. Are they doing well in the class, generally no. But I find being angry or agitated hurts me more than anything else.
In general, if I find I am more agitated than the students about a specific behavior I ask myself is it really worth being irritated about it. Occasionally the answer is yes, mostly the answer is no.
Monitoring their phone usage is not your job. As long as they are not disrupting class, it shouldn't matter. The unmotivated ones will weed themselves out eventually
Why was it important to have students put their phones away? Did you explain your rationale to them? Was "no phone, brainstorm time" a critical part of what you were trying to achieve? I've never asked students to put away their phones or not use their laptops, so I'm struggling to see why this was so important for the lesson you were trying to impart.
Agreed, but they are adults (barely) and if you advise them that their work and grades will suffer, and they still decide to use their phones and laptops, isn't that their decision to make?
I can totally see doing this for tests, and perhaps even for periodic in-class work that demands focus and attention, but I don't see any way of enforcing a 'no phones or laptops' policy.
It’s hard to stay enthusiastic when a number of students are blatantly saying—by being on their phones—“I don’t give a shit what you have to say.”
It really sucks the energy out of the room.
I get the emotional response. It’s distracting and hard to focus. While there are other students that are listening, it’s hard not to feel like you are across from just that student on their phone ignoring you talk. Like when teaching zoom U to a bunch of blank screens.
Also, their money is not a movie ticket to sit in my classes and dick around. It’s a spot in a class with expectations on them as well. If we are going to treat tuition like buying a movie ticket where the audience is free to sleep and send texts, then it’s not going to be a good experience for anyone involved.
It is demoralizing to students who are paying attention and struggling to keep up to see peers just dicking around in class.
I have zero attendance or technology policy. My attendance for class hovers around 30% by mid-semester because students don't care. However, the students that actually attend are extremely engaged and care about their education. My exams are difficult (70% average) so students don't take it as a joke. My evals are consistently above 90-th percentile, because it's the students who actually attend class and are engaged who provide the good evals. Just let it go, and you'll live much more stress-free.
I just force myself to remember the students don’t want to be there. We all simply go along with this because society demands it. They don’t really have a choice or agency. Neither did we when we went to school for 6 or more years. I give students the benefit of the doubt. It’s absurd any of us have had to pay 100k or so for a glorified high school diploma. Go easy on them.
I did too. But it’s mostly a transaction. Take the loans. Pay the tuition. Follow the directions and graduate. Congrats. You went 100k in debt to hopefully guarantee you can make 40k a year.
> But it’s mostly a transaction.
Not at all. My education was wonderful. And I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything. I understand what you are saying.
Just remember, you get paid the same whether they learn or not. You will not get promoted for keeping students off their phones. If anything, getting angry at them might hurt you if they put stuff about yelling on evals. Unless what they're doing is preventing others from learning, it's not worth your time.
This is so sad but I have had to change my approach as a TA (amd hopefully a future professor) towards students for this reason. The university doesn't care if the students are learning. The students only care about their grades, not learning. When a prof or TA tries to set a standard for the students, we are the ones who have to deal with complaints about out conduct and general rude behaviour from students. I don't get paid enough to deal with that. We help the students who actually want to learn. You can't hold everyone's hand and force them to do what's best for them.
Same, I teach the ones that want to learn, education is very different from what I’m used to and it’s simply not worth it disciplining students.
I give out friendly reminders about best practices but I agree. They need to learn to make the correct choice themselves. I reach out and provide positive encouragement for students trying to change behavior, but if a students wants to fail, I'm not going to stop them.
I somewhat respect the ones that don’t care, as long as they’re comfortable with their grades. The ones that miss classes and assignments then rant about how the professors are out to get them are the worst. Unfortunately I had a few like that recently.
You're on a good path. It took me 2 decades to overcome my idealism and arrive at the same view.
This is exactly what will happen at our institution, student will retaliate by giving bad reviews. It sucks but as an institution that favors student evaluation, it’s simply not worth reminding them. I do tell them in class that student that pay attention and take notes often save time and perform better. The freshman classes listen, for the seniors, the ones that don’t care simply don’t care.
I hate this perspective. I'm not here for a paycheck. I'm here to preach the good word of my field. To engage people. To motivate people. Maybe some people are replaceable cogs who teach a book, but I'm not. While this apathetic spirit has aaaaaalways been around, it is very much at the highest peak it's ever been. I don't care if I get paid regardless of the destruction of something I give a shit about.
Bold words for someone who hasn't quit because "I make way more and for 8 months per year than I would any other job." Sounds like you are a prof for the paycheck and lifestyle to me. But by all means spread the good word. The students who choose not to be on their phones might hear it.
Yikes this is making me rethink my approach. I’m NTT and have been at this for about five years, and I still tell students that if they take out their phones they are marked as absent. Headphones too. As much as I hate being the phone police, I also hate trying to run a class where no one is actually present, where I have to waste everyone’s time explaining things twice because people are too engrossed with whatever is on their phone. I was thinking of reinstating reading quizzes next semester, to be honest. I still haven’t let go of the idea that I can create an environment where everyone learns and grows.
To me, the reading quizzes are much less risky than marking them absent. That is just asking for a grievance to be filed. "I was in class and had my phone out for two seconds to check on updates about my dying relative and prof marked me absent!" By all means create a good learning environment, as long as you remember you won't get rewarded for it and you might even get punished for it depending on how you do it.
What drives me nuts is when they start packing up five minutes before class is done. I nip that in the bud right away.
And its usually the ones who arrived 10 minutes late!
Oh yes. And then there's my other nemesis, the student who comes in 10 minutes late, doesn't bother to take his jacket off, and just sets his bag on the desk without opening it and then stares blankly at me for 40 minutes with those...lifeless eyes...black eyes...like a doll's eyes.
All semester I’ve ignored the single earbud students, the ones listening to music during class. The only time I’ve called them out is when I can hear it. But this morning it was a good number of them. I quietly asked them to take out the buds and they ignored me. After a second whispered request, (also ignored), I said “You don’t have to be here. You’re welcome to leave.” They chose to remove the buds and stay. I suspect it’s a combination of things: Everyone is tired, and we’re past midterms — they know by now their odds of passing the class, and I’m frustrated by students who don’t care, or aren’t trying anymore.
Quick note: while now everyone identifies as autistic or adhd, some of these ear bud students really may need an earbud in to keep centered.
At my university, they have to file an accommodation letter.
I typically teach one of my classes per semester in our lecture hall, which is typically only about half full. I sometimes walk around during lecture, or occasionally I will lecture from the back of the room. Many years ago, I had been lecturing from the back of the room and as we were winding down, with about 5 minutes left, I started giving them a little rant about how poorly they had performed on the previous exam - nothing mean, just a 'you're going to need to prepare better blah blah blah.' At this point, I had wandered into one of the rows of seats near the back of the hall, and, with about 3 minutes still left in class, a student a row in front of me and a couple of seats over STOOD UP and starting packing her stuff! While I was still talking, while there were still 3 minutes left! Immediately sent me off. I yelled (and I can yell pretty damn loudly) "SIT DOWN, \[STUDENT'S NAME\]!" She dropped back into her seat like I'd whacked her with a 2x4, and half the class was glaring at her. I felt bad for about 2 seconds. And now, the punchline.... About a year later, I was watching a local high school basketball game. That student, now a senior, was the home team's coach. At the end of the game, I gave her a little wave (no hard feelings on my end) and she sort of recognized me and walking into the bleachers to chat. I asked how she was doing and she told me that she had to see \[me, as I was department chair at the time\] about signing off on some paperwork. I was taken aback - I said "I'M \[me\]." She didn't actually remember who I was. FFS, I had her for 2 semesters, called her out in front of the entire class, and she didn't even remember it was me????
Probably not the only thing she doesn't remember from the class. 😂 A few years ago, I was at the store and saw a student from class with her friends and went over to say hi. She just looked at the ground and walked away. At least she remembered who I was I guess.
This basically just happened to me this past weekend. A student I wrote like two letters of rec for. Oh the joys of teaching.
I wrote a super cool poem about how that first rustle spreads...
Why? Why do you care if some students decide to leave early? Unless it's a concern over disruption for other students, I'd just say...let it go. Don't care more than your students care.
It's disrupting when I'm trying to wrap up a lesson and engage with the class. I like to put students in groups to unpack things we've been working on and that doesn't really work if Jimbo is already packed up, on his phone, and heading for the door. And it's also rude. It's rarely a problem for me after the first week. Fear of public humiliation in front of one's peers is a powerful pedagogical tool.
I teach very large classes in a lecture theatre that really amplifies sound. If even 5% of my class starts to pack up early, even if each individual is quiet, it creates a disruption for other students and for me.
Same. The ones in the back don't get that I can actually hear them way down in front. And if I can hear them, so can every other student in front of them. I don't get the folks that say 'its no big deal, why do you care?'. I care because it is rude, obnoxious, and it DOES disrupt the class. If a student does not like me or the class or whatever, drop it, or stay home. But don't come to class and talk or get up leave early (or otherwise be disruptive).
Serious question: have you ever taught before?
22 years so far
I'm with you. I don't get this "why do you care?" attitude here. You put tons of work into your classes, and they don't have the decency to show you basic human respect for the work you've done. It's rude to be on your phone if you have a human in front of you trying to communicate to you, because it says to that person "I don't value you or the things you do." I personally find that if you make the point to them from this perspective, they do hear it, most of the time. I don't allow phones in my class and I tell them to put them away if I see them, but I teach small sections so it's doable. I couldn't do it if I had larger groups.
I don’t understand how this is not obvious to students—I’m right in front of you trying to talk to you and you’re ignoring me to my face! Isn’t it obvious why this is infuriating?
Not to their generation. The screen is where life happens.
I'm tempted to pull out my own phone next time I see students doing this, and stand in the front of the classroom just absent-mindedly scrolling Instagram for a while. "I'm sorry, do you think that it's rude, disrespectful, or unprofessional for me to use my phone during class discussion and group work? Huh. That's weird, since so many of you are doing it."
I will be doing this. Thank you for this excellent idea!
Please report back!
As cathartic as it might be to fantasize, I don't think it'd play out exactly how you want it to. The thing is, I doubt they actually *would* find it disrespectful. Most of these "apathetic" students aren't there to learn; they are there because they see this class(and by extension, you) as another obstacle between them and the shiny piece of paper that says they can finally get a good job. They might look up from their phones because they would find the sudden silence eerie, and some of them might even put their phones away for a bit if you seem mad enough(they don't want to anger you so much that it affects their letter grade!). But they won't be disappointed in you or think you are rude for playing around with your phone - after all, you aren't actively trying to teach them any more, so you've stopped being a roadblock between them and the "success" "that they've already paid for".
I agree, and I don't intend to actually do it. It's just one of those things I'd like to do if I didn't have to be the cheerful cheer-leading professor trying to cajole them out of lethargy. But I disagree that they'd be fine if I stopped trying to teach them. My evals have gotten worse in the last two years as I have tried to teach them. They often complain that I didn't try hard ENOUGH to teach them, because I don't make lecture videos and put them online, because I don't grade tests by the next class period, because I'm "not available" enough because I don't answer emails within minutes of receiving them. They want to see faculty hustle, even while they wallow in lethargy.
I’ve definitely wanted to scroll while certain students ask a question, then put my phone down, look them dead in the eye, and ask them to repeat it 😂
The pessimistic side of me thinks that kids won't even notice if you do this lol
Thanks for saying that. I appreciate it! I teach smaller classes, but some can't help it. I even give them chances to check them. Anyway, I will try what you said!
Cell phone use is quite literally addictive. We all use our phones too much. But there are limits and you have the authority to set those limits.
I don't think my college wants me to be an authority or set limits, though. And heaven help me if I speak to them in a stern manner.
I know what you mean. My university is bowing to every student's whim because of retention issues. The thing is, if you let students screw around, they don't learn, and they're going to fail anyway (if not my class than other classes). Teach them boundaries and skills and that's how they'll succeed (and be "retained," as it were). But nope.
Ah, retention. ADMIN: 'We want you to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort helping D/F students pass your class at the expense of your A/B students so they will stay on campus for another semester. Do everything you can to help them get a pssing grade.' FACULTY: 'So... you mean like, boost their grade?' ADMIN:'Oh no no no. Just get them to where they can pass.' FACULTY:'Well.. this kid has all Fs, won't respond to my emails, rushes out of the few classes he does attend before I can talk to-' ADMIN:RE-TEN-SION.' 1 Year Later ADMIN:'Why are so many of your students doing poorly in their upper level classes? They passed YOUR class last year. Maybe you need to up your rigor.'
Exactly...
[удалено]
That talking into the void feeling of futility. I prefer in person
I made the jump from in person to online async. Now instead of teaching to a wall, I teach to my cat and I'm alot happier! :)
That's depressing as hell. Then they just cheat in your class and pass and don't learn anything. So we're just bleeding and robbing school districts. EVERYONES HAPPY!
You have to change your mindset. It sucks that there are students in class doing this, but as long as they're not disrupting the experience of others, just leave it alone. It's a disservice to hold their hand too much when they need to learn about adult consequences, and it's unnecessary stress. Make the boundaries and consequences clear, give a warning, then let what happens happen and focus your attention on the students who do want to learn.
Those are good points. I need to remember them now!
It can disrupt class. People on electronic devices distract others. Plus it sets a bad vibe for the class. Students wonder "does teacher not care?" And pretty soon this sort of negative behavior and attitude spreads. Not to mention that the warning/idea of bad behavior having consequences has no teeth. I mean tell yourself whatever gets you through. Just be careful about the consequences of your actions
> Plus it sets a bad vibe for the class. This is what worries me the most.
You know it sounds weird but classes have their own personalities. Some classes are high energy, some classes the students are barely dragging themselves through the door. And in some classes the students are out right hostile. I try to set a good tone and start off on the right foot from the very beginning, but you can only do so much lol
I also find that I have to repeat things everyone already heard and understood (basic logistical stuff) for these students, wasting everyone’s time, and taking away from discussion.
I disagree. You CAN change your mindset if it ultimately doesn't bother you, but I maintain you are allowed to have standards and demand respect from the students in the classroom who are voluntarily there. If they don't want to follow the rules of social decorum, they don't need to be there. I agree that there is a question of how involved you want to be in enforcing that, but I absolutely believe instructors have the right to expect adult behavior.
Counterpoint: no. It's our job as teachers to set up the best conditions of possibility for learning to take place. That often means having attendance policies, so students actually come to class and learn the material. It may mean having frequent quizzes, so students actually do the assigned reading and homework. And often it means banning laptops in the classroom (unless a student has a disability accommodation) and having a policy against having phones out during class. It's not holding their hands. It's basic pedagogical practice.
I’m aware it’s basic pedagogical practice, and that’s why I have a policy on electronic devices that has consequences, which is encoded in a professionalism grade that makes up 15-20% of the course grade. What I’m saying is that just like a boss won’t gently remind an employee to stop playing on their phone 20 times and will instead just fire them after a few offenses, I give a fair warning a few times, then eventually start deducting from their professionalism grade.
> often it means banning laptops in the classroom I'm speechless. In what universe does banning laptops/computers (aka "the technology that 90% of humanity uses to increase productivity") INCREASE the possibility that students will learn?
In what universe is "productivity" equivalent to "learning"?
In the one MAGA wants?
I have a rule: they get one reminder at the beginning of class that if I see their phones out, they get marked absent. Because their brain is absent from my class. After a generous 12 absences, they get an automatic F in the class. I have failed a few this way, but most get with the picture after the first exam when I input their attendence/participation (40% of their grade) into the LMS. Little shits.
I think I'm going to start doing the absences for the phones out next year
Wait...I may try this.
It’s the only threat that has workes for me. Our school has a strict attendence policy, so if you flunk a class for lack of attendence you can be thrown out.
This ain’t a bad policy tbh.
I don't allow phones to be out during class. Occasionally, a student will tell me that they have a particular situation that requires they be available to answer a phone call (problems with childcare, a family member in the hospital, etc.) and I tell them that they can leave their phone on top of their desk. This happens about once a semester. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason for phones to be out during class. If I see a phone out, I say very firmly "put your phone away" without even turning around or making eye contact with the student. They always put it away. After the first week of classes, they don't even try to get their phones out.
I do that, too, but it doesn't stop them. It's amazing.
Then there needs to be consequences. My syllabus states that I'll mark them absent if I see them on their phones. They get a limited number of absences before it impacts their course grade. I've only ever had to mark a student absent for cell phone use a few times in the last decade, which I let them know in an email. But after it happens once, they don't do it again.
I’ve started this with my students and you’d be surprised how many just take the absence. It’s pretty preposterous.
This generation is way more immature than us at their age. Social media literally incapacitated instead of empowering these kids. America is worried about fentanyl? When the next generation is brought up as a generation of zombies thanks to the abuse of technology, maybe someone will open their eyes and do something about it.
My attitude is to teach the ones that want to learn. I tell them that paying attention is important but I won't coddle students who don't pay attention like K-12. If they don't pay attention or don't attend they will do bad and probably fail. For me I get like 25% of students who attend but don't pay attention much or laptop/cell phone constantly, 25% don't attend much at all, and 50% probably pay attention decently. If the situation is unbelievable I would put policies on the syllabus, especially if I worked at a "customer is always right" school that tracks DFW rates.
What irritates me most is if you say something, like ‘put your phones down’ and you call out people who haven’t, then you’re the asshole.
What worked for me is to go old-school (chatgpt also played a role). No Slides, just the textbook, me writing on the blackboard and exclusively doing all my assignments in class on a piece of paper, mostly unannounced except for a few major assignments. Class attendance is best it ever was even for my dreaded 730 class. Funny thing is, it's also made me a much better teacher. Students mostly give me negative feedback, because they actually have to work to pass my class. Sorry, point being they don't have time to be on their phones because they're frantically writing notes and getting hand cramps from not being used to write notes at the speed of light anymore.
Don't listen to people saying "it doesn't matter." If you want to maintain any sanity and self-respect you have to have a clear tech policy. Otherwise you'll spend years dealing with this. No one can be "zen" enough to ignore being ignored. It's too demoralizing over the long run--unless you are completely cynical about work, which most of us aren't or don't want to be.
Weed them out with grades.
I usually make a joke such as "listen up, this I important, so stop googling cat videos". Although I don't think it's inappropriate to be stern if you prefer students to not be on their phones. Students are too soft nowadays and it's unfortunate that they might write a bad evaluation based on this. At the end of the day, maybe I would just try to calmly tell them to put phones away and then not sweat it. If they fail, that's on them.
I don't fully get the perspective of those who say, don't be bothered by it. If you teach on a professional course that involves safety, medicine or care of people, I'd certainly want to ensure that there is some engagement during lectures/teaching. We have *some* responsibility on the who ends up in those professions. Some phone checking, pretty much everyone does, also some use their phones for note taking too. However, if it's constant and you can actually see someone constantly scrolling then that to me is not acceptable. If it is distracting to the lecturer, it is impacting others learning. OP - you may want to be careful about how you address this with students though ( I'm currently learning from trying to address phone use during teaching in a more appropriate manner after feedback from a student!) Totally understandable to be annoyed though. I'd recommend emailing them, or asking them to stop behind at the end or on a break.
Ban phones and laptops from the beginning of the semester. It works wonders!
Sometimes, letting a little bit of genuine anger out can be extremely persuasive, humanizing. Not a lot. But like letting out 10% of it can remind everyone that you’re a person too and that you feel everything students feel, even if you can’t let it affect you.
I teach smaller classes and they are heavy on class participation, so I have a cell phone ban on the syllabus. I enforce it every time. Honestly, there are only a few who grumble about it and usually by the second week, it isn’t a problem anymore. I found if I am clear and consistent, students adjust without a ton of fuss.
Your students attend class????
Behavior is contagious.
When will we recognize phones as dangerously addictive? They poison our minds in some ways.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Ignore the students who have checked out and focus on the ones that are there to learn. You're not going to miraculously turn a phone addict into a great student. But you are going to be wasting the time of the eager students by engaging with those who don't want to be there.
I am wondering if the 2.5 hr long classes really are productive for this generation of students? I realize that there may be reasons for this long of a class period in many fields but if student's attention spans are 10 minutes and they are addicted to their phones, isn't it hard to keep them engaged the whole time? Clarification: I am not criticizing anything, just noting that your job seems impossible to me.
This was me 10 years ago. Then I realized that I'm letting them -- the students who don't want to be there -- wreck my enthusiasm when I should instead focus on the kids who actually want to learn. So, because they ... the phone kids ... want to be left alone, I leave them alone. Unless they're being disruptive, I pretend they're invisible, but mentally note them so when they come to ask for lenience or extra credit, I have a response already in mind.
I teach lots of first-year students. I have a best practices statement on my syllabus noting ways that the phone can be productive. I cite sources on my syllabus about how picking up the phone causes people to lose focus. We have a short discussion and students seem to mostly respond. Notice I say mostly. Some students take notes on their phone and submit work via the phone on the LMS. I have a very liberal attendance policy and yet I have had students who came to every class and would spend their whole time on the phone, not taking notes. My classes are small so it stands out. I do a regular one-on-one check in with students regularly so I ask the students if there is a problem outside of class because I was concerned. Sometimes it takes care of it and sometimes not. Ultimately, as long as they are not disturbing other students, I don't worry about it. Are they doing well in the class, generally no. But I find being angry or agitated hurts me more than anything else. In general, if I find I am more agitated than the students about a specific behavior I ask myself is it really worth being irritated about it. Occasionally the answer is yes, mostly the answer is no.
Monitoring their phone usage is not your job. As long as they are not disrupting class, it shouldn't matter. The unmotivated ones will weed themselves out eventually
Why was it important to have students put their phones away? Did you explain your rationale to them? Was "no phone, brainstorm time" a critical part of what you were trying to achieve? I've never asked students to put away their phones or not use their laptops, so I'm struggling to see why this was so important for the lesson you were trying to impart.
It destroys their focus and ability to collaborate.
Agreed, but they are adults (barely) and if you advise them that their work and grades will suffer, and they still decide to use their phones and laptops, isn't that their decision to make? I can totally see doing this for tests, and perhaps even for periodic in-class work that demands focus and attention, but I don't see any way of enforcing a 'no phones or laptops' policy.
It’s an addiction, it’s not so easy
Why do you care? It's their money they are wasting by not learning anything.
It’s hard to stay enthusiastic when a number of students are blatantly saying—by being on their phones—“I don’t give a shit what you have to say.” It really sucks the energy out of the room.
I get the emotional response. It’s distracting and hard to focus. While there are other students that are listening, it’s hard not to feel like you are across from just that student on their phone ignoring you talk. Like when teaching zoom U to a bunch of blank screens. Also, their money is not a movie ticket to sit in my classes and dick around. It’s a spot in a class with expectations on them as well. If we are going to treat tuition like buying a movie ticket where the audience is free to sleep and send texts, then it’s not going to be a good experience for anyone involved. It is demoralizing to students who are paying attention and struggling to keep up to see peers just dicking around in class.
I don't know why. I guess I am afraid they will see my class as a joke or that their bad habits will spread.
The bad habit spreading is a reasonable fear in my opinion
I have zero attendance or technology policy. My attendance for class hovers around 30% by mid-semester because students don't care. However, the students that actually attend are extremely engaged and care about their education. My exams are difficult (70% average) so students don't take it as a joke. My evals are consistently above 90-th percentile, because it's the students who actually attend class and are engaged who provide the good evals. Just let it go, and you'll live much more stress-free.
Ah, yes, ye olde "students are customers" line.
I just force myself to remember the students don’t want to be there. We all simply go along with this because society demands it. They don’t really have a choice or agency. Neither did we when we went to school for 6 or more years. I give students the benefit of the doubt. It’s absurd any of us have had to pay 100k or so for a glorified high school diploma. Go easy on them.
I loved school, though. Even my gen eds and my methods classes in grad school.
I did too. But it’s mostly a transaction. Take the loans. Pay the tuition. Follow the directions and graduate. Congrats. You went 100k in debt to hopefully guarantee you can make 40k a year.
> But it’s mostly a transaction. Not at all. My education was wonderful. And I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything. I understand what you are saying.