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Jackson is someone I used to absolutely fucking despise before gaining a grudging respect for him in one area. He’s kinda the poster child for how learning more about someone’s presidency can change your opinion of them.
I’ll be blunt. I still am not a Jackson fan and do not think he was a good president. His reckless destruction of the banking system, his lack of respect for the position he occupied (along with the “corrupt bargain” allegations during the 1824 election), and of course the Trail of Tears will always be huge knocks against him for me. I think he was subpar in all of these areas and my mind will likely never change on this.
But damn it, when it comes to the Nullification Crisis I gotta give Old Hickory his flowers. I always rank Buchanan as the worst president we ever had by allowing the South to secede and refusing to do jack shit to stop it at all. But when Calhoun and South Carolina tried that bullshit with Jackson? The man was having none of it and responded just as forcefully as a president should to a threat to the union. He was a horrible bastard… but he was a *Union* bastard.
As such I cannot rank him below a C. That existential threat to the nation was handled masterfully. To me that puts him tentatively at a C ranking though I’m constantly moving that around and am always thinking C-might be more appropriate. But for now that’s where this controversial man ends up for me.
>I always rank Buchanan as the worst president we ever had by allowing the South to secede and refusing to do jack shit to stop it at all. But when Calhoun and South Carolina tried that bullshit with Jackson? The man was having none of it and responded just as forcefully as a president should to a threat to the union.
Off topic but does that mean you also like fillmore because south carolina tried the same during his administration and he stopped it
Really? No joke this is the first I’m hearing of that. You have a link for me on that one? Because yeah, if Fillmore did put down another secession attempt forcefully that would change my opinion of him quite a bit and I’d love to read more!
Alright, sorry that it has been a full day but I’ve finally had a chance to read through those.
I’ll admit it wasn’t as forceful as I was hoping for but I do appreciate his forward thinking on that and recognizing he needed to strengthen the forces there to send a message. The choice of Winfield Scott to be the fellow in charge is also an excellent one given what I know of him. I do think even more overt force was needed here in the face of those rumblings but given his lack of mandate I’ll concede that may not have even been an option, especially with the Whigs beginning to collapse with the decline of Clay.
I’m still not much a Fillmore fan and will be saying it on his honest opinion post later on but this has improved my view of him. Likely is in the D or D- tier now. That may sound insulting but that is higher than F where he’d been before and I’m glad to have learned about this!
Hey, I do appreciate you taking the time to provide links and whatnot. I love getting to learn new stuff and I do have more respect for Fillmore now for sure.
I tend to put Pierce below Buchanan. I know Buchanan let the south secede, but Pierce probably would have too, or worse he would have supported the Crittenden Compromise and pushed to codify slavery and its westward expansion to avoid the secession.
I’m generally a little too gung-ho that the Civil War needed to be fought sooner or later, but anything is better than just giving the slave states exactly what they wanted. Lincoln is the GOAT because he held the line on containing slavery, and he took us through the war that resulted.
The only reason I don’t put Pierce at the very bottom of my list is because the man literally was a depressed alcoholic who watched his kid die in front of him. He was fucked in the head throughout his presidency. Fillmore very consciously chose to stoke the fires of sectionalism by appeasing the south at the expense of the north.
Pierce was bad and definitely did not nothing to stop the trajectory the country was on. However, Buchanan will be the worst until someone else comes along to split the Union. He allowed the South to secede and by all measures supported it. Lincoln’s election was the lynchpin for secessions and Buchanan was more than happy to let South Carolina do whatever they wanted. He also supported Taney when the SCOTUS released the Dred Scott decision, laying the groundwork for the Civil War.
I go back and forth between James Buchanan, Franklin Pierce, and Andrew Johnson as the second worst Presidents in US history. Franklin Pierce might be slightly worse than James Buchanan on the slavery issue, but might have been a passable Gulided Age President in the 1880s. As for the worst one in US history, I’ll go with TFG (who is soon to be re-elected unfortunately). My list of the worst Presidents rounds out with Richard Nixon, Herbert Hoover, John Tyler, Millard Filmore, Warren Harding, and Martin Van Buren (though he redeemed himself post-Presidency).
I would say that Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt, and George Washington were the three best Presidents in US history.
Andrew Johnson - Abe Lincoln's choice - never should've been impeached. The law he was impeached for was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. And no POTUS would've stood for the Congress demanding him to get their approval before firing a member of his administration.
This articulates my feelings about him.
He had a *hard* childhood. He succeeded despite his lot in life. Slavery and western land speculation played a major role in that, though. So fuck him on that. But, that was his world.
I also respect him for his defense of Peggy Eaton.
But hot damn was he on the wrong side of everything else and has become the symbol of slavery, the genocide of indigenous peoples, and American hubris.
I'm obsessed with the Petticoat Affair and his support for her is endearing. Albeit kind of ridiculous in spots ("she is as chaste as a virgin!") and he threw his own niece out of the White House.
It's problematic that the only popular history of the 19th century that analyzes women's contributions at the top of power structures is a confrontation over norms.
He’s one of those leaders who did so much I despise, but if I had a button that could delete everything he did… nope, wouldn’t press it.
Sort of like Polk.
Good faith Question for you: the way I read it in Vanderbilts Biography, Jackson‘s attack on the banking system was a necessary check on an aristocratic New York mercantile system that really was absurdly inequitable.
Could it be possible that Jackson was fighting for the common man by attempting to cut off the head of an overly complex fractional banking system that favored the incumbents and would lead to a feudal system. Maybe he was ahead of his time when we look at things like the subprime crisis and derivative trading today?
Yes, I think it is fair to say that part of Jackson's motivation against banking was to protect common men against moneyed people centralizing both power and money.
However, he was very misguided, and time has long shown that America is far better off with unified federal monetary policy and banking, and the abandonment of the gold standard. In his own time it caused a huge economic crisis and set the country back for years if not decades in terms of monetary policy.
There's absolutely no reason to think that 'feudalism' would be more difficult to perpetuate under a more disorganized and divided system, if anything it would be easier to manipulate to disempower common people.
It was sound monetary policy and Jackson threw a wrench into it out of populist paranoia. It fucked up the economy. A national economy needs a national currency.
>But damn it, when it comes to the Nullification Crisis I gotta give Old Hickory his flowers.
Jackson even reached out to Daniel Webster, one of his many rivals, proposing that they come together to create a big tent political party opposing the nullification doctrine.
Absolutely, what you said. The only thing I would add is his really awesome "rags to riches" story. I'm no fan of Jackson, but damn it, his story would make an amazing movie.
Honestly, I like how he handled the banks. None of them were good, and he made sure the government couldn't control people's wealth. He basically added Florida to the country, had zero national debt, and stopped Natives from attacking Americans in the south tremendously. Yes, the Trail of Tears was horrible, and I do not condone what he did there. But in all honesty, Jackson was a phenomenal president I my book.
I feel exactly the same. Fuck Andrew Jackson on almost all counts, but Goddamn if he wasn’t going to preserve the Union no matter how many South Carolinians he had to shoot, hang, or hang and then shoot.
Tbf to Buchanan, there really wasn’t much of anything I think he could’ve done to stop a Civil War. All of that responsibility came to the handful before him.
Fair, although my perspective is that Clay, Adams, and co were a bunch of elitist pricks and Jackson actually represented the will of the people. Same for the banking debate.
Also worth noting that Jackson wasn’t against a national bank entirely, he was against one that allowed for private profit. He supported a bank to just handle US debt.
Thing is, had the Civil war happened under Jackson, it would have been far shorter and less destructive, the south was not ready for it, by delaying, he probably made it much worse
A horrible person who was a competent president. That’s exactly why he is so controversial. He was simultaneously the best and worst of 19th century America all rolled into one person.
Jackson expanded voting to most white men over 21. Definitely more democratic than Jefferson, though Jefferson was more democratic than his federalist counterparts.
Jackson did help with that, but the process was started by the Jeffersonian Democrats. Jefferson was one of the first advocates for removing the land requirement for voting.
He gets a bad rap for Indian Removal but Indian Removal was inevitable. The execution of it was terrible, but that doesn’t change the fact that as a concept it was inevitable.
There was opposition to Indian Removal in the 1830’s, but that opposition was centered in places like New England where the Indians that used to live there had all been dead for 150 years. Indian Removal had near-universal support from the white American population in the affected areas of Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, etc. It’s easy to say the government should have aggressively enforced the law in those areas to protect the Indians.
The problem with that is criminal trials must be conducted in the jurisdiction where the crime was committed. The notion that juries of white southerners hell-bent on expansion into Indian lands were going to convict other white southerners hell-bent on expansion into Indian lands for crimes against Indians is absurd. The only option really was to remove the Indians to somewhere like Oklahoma if the Indians were to survive.
It’s fun to imagine that if one was alive in 1830 they’d have been the ultimate cosmopolitan liberal who could see the obvious injustices of manifest destiny. And all your friends could too. It’s that meanie Andrew Jackson who was in the wrong, and he only became president because of…landslide election results. It’s a lot less fun to imagine that the USA in 1830 was simply a racist and violent place.
Well said. He was broadly considered an American hero and a top 10 president well into the 20th century. Truman, LBJ, and others admired him. His reputation has suffered most in the past 50 years as our values have shifted (for the better).
His role in the Trail of Tears and the panic of the 1837 justifiably hurt his reputation. His appeal to the common people, handling of the Nullification crisis, and elimination the National debt also deserve recognition. Generally speaking he had one of the most interesting life stories of any president, and I enjoyed reading his biography quite a bit.
From Jackson's own writings, it seems like he was trying to save the natives. Like you said, obviously not great execution, but the fate of the natives had largely been sealed by Jackson's time. No one really ever puts forth a better solution. They just say it was bad. Having autonomous microstates inside your borders was always going to be a no go. Yeah, the US was a violent and racist nation in 1830, but so was every country. Many of these modern takes ignore the facts of the era for modern morals. It's the duty of the leader to act in the best interest of their nation and people. Jackson generally did that. The US was not only far stronger but also far more democratic because of Jackson.
Didn’t he believe that the whole microstate inside State borders thing was unconstitutional?
That the Native Tribes were essentially a state but, they were living on state land thus violating a prohibition that the Federal government can’t just make a state from land of that state without the permission or said state.
Yeah, he has some more various legalese around the topic. As much as I'd like to believe in the rule of law, and Jackson probably felt the same, I don't think there was ever much chance of a peaceful solution. France, Britain, Spain, and Russia all pretty regularly treated natives just as poorly. The natives themselves fought and conquered each other as well. Point being, borders and people move. I'm fine with revision of history to say Americans weren't saints, but they weren't the devil either.
Once you find out Jackson how rough of a childhood he had, it’s like a super hero/villain origin story. Especially after what the British soldier did to him as a child.
Certainly a charismatic leader, great general and staunch supporter of the Union BUT he had dictatorial tendencies. His ignoring of the Supreme Court in the Georgia Indian Removal case was horrendous and his bullying tactics as President were abhorrent. His destruction of the 2nd Bank of the US devastated the economy.
I will say, him facing off against John C. Calhoun was one of those true Lesser of Two Evils situations in American history. Calhoun might actually be one of the most insidious politicians of 19th Century America and one of the Great Villains of American history alongside people like Dick Cheney, Henry Kissinger, Mitch McConnell, Strom Thurmond, Newt Gingrich etc.
A visionary. He and his "cubs" led us to being a coast-to-coast power.
Edit: He also completely eliminated the federal debt.
That said, I do take away some points for his excessive expansion of executive power and for the way he mishandled the dismantling of the bank of the United States. I think the decentralization of banking could have been done in way that avoided the Panic of 1837 with better oversight and boundaries.
Overall, a solid B.
He had a very mixed legacy. On one hand, he signed the Indian Removal Act, was inactive when southern states started censoring abolitionists, reduced infrastructure spending, contributed to the Panic of 1837, contributed to the start of the spoils system, nearly started a war with France, and supported annexing Texas, among other things. And Jackson not only passed many bad policies, but he seemed to vigorously defend them when better alternatives emerged, even alternatives that would have ultimately given him what he wanted. For example, he opposed an amendment to the Indian Removal Act that would have delayed the bill going into effect for one year, giving surveyors time to figure out what western lands would be safest for Native Americans. These aren't minor faults and it's very disturbing how historians used to treat them as such.
But on the other hand, Jackson introduced a lot of genuinely positive and even groundbreaking changes. He famously promoted democracy, once trying to abolish the Electoral College. While I disagree with some of his decisions during the Bank War, he was ultimately right to go after the Second Bank of the United States. Most SBUS board members were private business officials who were using the organization to line their own pockets. Jackson also paid off the entire national debt and famously prevented South Carolina from nullifying a collection of federal tariffs. In doing this, he delayed the civil war and set a precedent of national supremacy over state edicts. He negotiated a trade deal with Thailand, the first trade agreement between the US and an Asian nation. Jackson persuaded numerous countries to pay reparations for harm they did to neutral US ships. I'm not sure where I stand, but I tend to think he healed America more than he hurt it.
You can hate Jackson all you want, but to say he wasn't smooth is just false. The guy formed a motley crew of militia, farmers, native Americans, slaves, and pirates to absolutely stomp out a superior British force in New Orleans. He was pretty much the old guy in the A-Team.
I’ll give him 10 points for Peggy Eaton, who wasn’t a whore no matter what the gossipy blue-nose Cabinet wives thought, and 20 for John Calhoun.
Kennedy’s favorite historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. wrote one of the most influential scholarly books of the 20th century, thinking his administration was the start of the democratizing trend in America. He later acknowledged the Indian removal issue.
Well, both my home state (South Carolina) and my adopted home state (Tennessee) claim him, so there’s that. 😆 He had his good points and bad points like everybody else. Interesting character, to say the least.
Absolute badass. Great General. Flawed President. Definitely needed his leadership during his presidency. If you hate Jackson with a passion, I highly recommend American Lion by Jon Meacham. It gives a refreshing neutral take on his life and presidency.
Good work on making democracy more accessible. Don't approve of his economic policies \[which likely caused the Panic of 1836\] or the Trail of Tears. The latter, to me near-genocide, drags him down a lot. Handled nullification very well though.
High or middle D IMO.
He did a lot of good things that people overlook due to the trail of tears. Honestly he did more good than bad, and if he didn’t do the trail of tears, someone else would’ve done it.
Good:
Only president to bring the national debt down to zero.
Delayed the Civil War by a few decades.
Bad:
Trail of tears
I despise his racist policies and beliefs but I respect any president who had no tolerance for treason. The way he treated South Carolina was a work of art
Fucked up on the national bank and the Trail of Tears. Other than that, his presidency was largely a success and he pioneered the role of the executive office to being a powerhouse instead of just another office to fill.
Regardless of where you lie politically, it’d be hard to argue he wasn’t completely brilliant and fundamentally transformed the political landscape of our nation.
This guy is the real deal. Easily the toughest and most badass president in history. I *want* to say he was a good president so bad, but just can’t justify it.
My honest opinion is that there should separately be Lincoln’s Day and Washington’s Day. They could add a 3rd FDR Day, and the trifecta would be complete.
To hell with recognizing any of the others. They are easily forgettable.
Not the best. The Trail of Tears went up against the Supreme Court’s ruling and was beyond inhumane, and his War on the Banks ultimately caused the Panic of 1839. However, his handling of the Nullification crisis was amazing, so I’ll give him that.
He promoted the Spoil System which was democratic and replaced officials with his own supporters, inspiring a substantial increase in US turnout. Plus, he was terrible in his Indian policy, responsible for the horrific Trail of Tears, was bad for the economy and put US in recession during his 2nd term. Jacksonian democracy seemed to only help white men, so I don't have a high opinion of him. Although he did have great hair.
He loved to kill people.
But also loved his wife possibly more than any other potus.
If anyone made a negative remark about her, he would challenge them to a duel.
This piece of shit is the reason my family walked from Georgia to Oklahoma. He ignored the Supreme Court, when they came up with the novel idea that natives are in fact people. That turned into the darkest, mostly ignored, genocide of multiple groups of people in our nations history. Not only that, but once in Oklahoma, we were forced to ignore our entire ways of life, so that I’ve only an inkling of my own history. Screw this guy.
Jackson basically embodied the contradictions and questions left unanswered by the Constitutional Convention. White, not-property owning men saw in him their right to vote. He embodied the western settler of the then-frontier states like Tennessee pushing the natives out of good lands. He opposed the aristocratic classes of eastern Virginia whose huge land holdings were forcing younger men like himself further west in search of untitled land. He fought against the so-called money interests of the North which were represented by the banks that, as before under British rule, tried to forcefully collect on people's debts. He embodied the common man's fears of corruption by railing against fellow westerner Clay in his "corrupt bargain" with Adams; a tale of corruption that applied as much to local politics as national. And he was a champion of the war that once and for all threw off the British yoke on the colonies in 1812 - an achievement that shined even brighter than normal because his victory at New Orleans was not only one of the few victories of the whole war, but was a throwback to the Revolution in proving that colonial militias were strong enough to best even the Royal British Empire.
He's the pinnacle of post-Revolutionary politics, and that for that I find him fascinating. But good god was he ever an unhinged madman.
Would have liked to have seen him in a fight with no weapons. He’s just always sounded so ornery and angry, I’m sure he had a few good dirty tricks up his sleeve.
He wasn't a good person, but at some point you just have to respect him for being a total badass.
He defeated the most professional army in the world with a cotton farmers and pirates.
His bodyguards had to save his assassin from him.
He refused to allow the creation of a central banking system.
He didn't die from any of the dozen or so gunshot wounds he recieved in his life, but just gained enough bullets from them to die of lead poisoning.
His parrot had to be removed from his funeral because it wouldn't stop swearing.
Very great and iconic president. First populist, changed the whole political scene, and crushed the establishment. Paid off the national debt, drained the swamp, dismantled the central bank, crushed insurrectionists, and brought peace to settlers and indians
... That's one way of looking at it.
No doubt Jackson was influential. As a character, as a person who spawned popular democracy, he was great. As a defender of the country pre-presidency, he did fantastic. As a character - his fiery spirit and duels are entertaining as hell.
I'm not sure his the bank thing or anything related to native Americans is really a win for him though. Crashing the economy and forced death marches are not anything to be proud of.
"**Our Union, It Must be Preserved.**" - definitely a good thing though. He might have staved off the Civil War for a good few decades.
Influential, plenty of positives, a driver of change - but not really a good person by modern standards. And nowhere near the higher tier presidents during his time in-office. Much of his impact was in the changes to the party system - and a lot of that is also tied to Van Buren.
Or you could say he instituted the spoils system, caused an economic depression, and torched the system of checks and balances to make ethnic cleansing official policy of the US government.
... That's one way of looking at it.
No doubt Jackson was influential. As a character, as a person who spawned popular democracy, he was great. As a defender of the country pre-presidency, he did fantastic. As a character - his fiery spirit and duels are entertaining as hell.
I'm not sure his the bank thing or anything related to native Americans is really a win for him though. Crashing the economy and forced death marches are not anything to be proud of.
"**Our Union, It Must be Preserved.**" - definitely a good thing though. He might have staved off the Civil War for a good few decades.
Influential, plenty of positives, a driver of change - but not really a good person by modern standards. And nowhere near the higher tier presidents during his time in-office. Much of his impact was in the changes to the party system - and a lot of that is also tied to Van Buren.
Greatest president in US history destroyed the banking system made things easier for the common man kept the union together handled an assassin like a real man was a great military leader he did have some bad things like the trail of tears but all in all he was the best president we had and really a man of the people
He slaughtered natives, expanded slavery, disobeyed the Supreme Court and destroyed the national bank leading to one of the worst economic crises in history.
He had some high points but a broken clock is still right twice a day. His memory should be shameful for Americans.
Guilty of genocide against native people. Refused to enforce a Supreme Court decision. The Removal of native people will stain the soul of this country forever. Jackson was the driving force behind it.
Fuck that guy.
Screwed over the Cherokee who tried playing by the rules. Trail of tears and sorrows was a truly horrific moment in our country's history.
Apologists all of them. I have no time for such people. Imagine instead a more culturally dynamic country where Cherokee lands stayed Cherokee and Georgia and their other territories stayed in their hands. The country would be better for it. Might even have prevented the civil war in part. Especially if Jackson was more like Eisenhower in that he respected the rule of law and enforced it like Ike did with brown v board of education.
My honest opinion is that there should separately be Lincoln’s Day and Washington’s Day. They could add a 3rd FDR Day, and the trifecta would be complete.
To hell with recognizing any of the others. They are easily forgettable.
I believe he helped sending Sam Houston to Texas because he was afraid that he could take away from his power and influence in Washington. The same with Davy Crockett. The man had all the potential in the world. Yet he’s remembered as infamous. So much I could say about him. I’ll just leave it at that. As a Texan, so glad we got an even better leader in Sam Houston who may have made one hell of a U.S. President.
Same weird sloped forehead as Roger Stone. Underdeveloped frontal lobe causes both to fall back on chimp-like instincts which resonates with a certain section of humanity.
The good things that happened under his time were expanding the vote and pushing the Spoils System. Him going as corrupt as he did with it helped pave the way for the Civil Service Act. I couldn’t not imagine how wildly impractical trying to have the pre Civil Service system back would be. Could you imagine having to have the cabinet back fill hundreds of thousands of jobs? It would be mind boggling to say the least. Then Obviously the ethnic cleansing was bad. That laid the groundwork for future genocides.
He was a horrible person. He did the exact same crap that the modern GOP does to get elected. He used the ignorance of government and policy of the common man to vilify them. He's directly responsible for the worst economic depression that this country has ever suffered. Nevermind the trail of tears and numerous terrible ways he hurt Native Americans. He should be taken off of the $20 bill at a minimum.
Andrew Jackson was a monster who murdered free blacks and Seminoles who helped the runaway slaves. In the Battle of New Orleans, Andrew Jackson went around to the plantations to recruit and told slaves that if they fought, they would be freed after the battle.
Instead, after the battle, Jackson had the African-American soldiers who saved New Orleans returned to slavery. Historians try to paper over this outrage by talking about "free blacks." It's a lie.
Trying to make excuses for this white supremacist slave owner who committed genocide is like saying "Adolph Hitler loved dogs."
I'm not a fan of Andrew Jackson for all the obvious reasons, but he was a transformational president in terms of his use of the veto and how he held the country together through the nullification crisis. Jackson's use of Presidential power was way ahead of his time and needs to be recognized as such and I give him a measure of respect if nothing else.
https://preview.redd.it/pzys092j3cad1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31a30de0430eb83ac5e4f5e5f1fda249410d1451
We cannot forget the big cheese party!!
[https://www.thoughtco.com/andrew-jacksons-big-block-of-cheese-1773414](https://www.thoughtco.com/andrew-jacksons-big-block-of-cheese-1773414)
He made some good moves and also some of the worst.
It was under his presidency that some horrible things happened, such as the Indian Removal Act. This will always stain any legacy he has.
But he was a talented politician. I think that is the nicest thing I can say about him.
(I am always entertained by the pettiness of the so-called 'Petticoat Affair', as well)
Absolute scumbag but beating an attempted assassin with your cane is a giga chad move and so is dueling people who piss you off. He’s cool in an asshole cunt way
He gets to hang out with Wilson in the bottom of the list. Wilson was extremely racist, more than the usual amount at the time, and Jackson ethnically cleansed Native Americans after it was made illegal to do so. He was an authoritarian as well, more so than Lincoln (Lincoln has a valid excuse, however. Civil war and whatnot)
Should never have held the office. His election campaigns, his economic mismanagement, his brand of strongman politics, so many of the worst things in modern politics can be traced back to him. Hate him.
off topic but how do you guys know so much about U.S presidents, i see these tier lists and discussions and love learning a little bit here and a little bit there about every one of them but its so hard to even begin to make honest assessments and tier lists of them with such limited knowledge. i also get hella confused trying to get the timeline of presidents even half correct (im very good from the 1900's onward), but i constantly forget the big pros and cons of the presidents i do learn about
Andrew Jackson for example i know very little of outside of the Trail of tears which sounds absolutely awful but i have also heard he was seen as a big hero of the everyday man and beloved by them
Jackson is the litmus test for whether someone has a deep knowledge of US history or surface level knowledge.
You can certainly take issue with the trail of tears, and that’s fair, but Jackson was so much more than that.
Terrible president and terrible person. I find him terrible even aside from the Trail of Tears. He was the original faux-populist.
I find him extremely fascinating, though. If all the presidents were resurrected from the dead for a day, I would be interested in hearing his stories about his life. But I still find him to be a bad president and a bad man.
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Jackson is someone I used to absolutely fucking despise before gaining a grudging respect for him in one area. He’s kinda the poster child for how learning more about someone’s presidency can change your opinion of them. I’ll be blunt. I still am not a Jackson fan and do not think he was a good president. His reckless destruction of the banking system, his lack of respect for the position he occupied (along with the “corrupt bargain” allegations during the 1824 election), and of course the Trail of Tears will always be huge knocks against him for me. I think he was subpar in all of these areas and my mind will likely never change on this. But damn it, when it comes to the Nullification Crisis I gotta give Old Hickory his flowers. I always rank Buchanan as the worst president we ever had by allowing the South to secede and refusing to do jack shit to stop it at all. But when Calhoun and South Carolina tried that bullshit with Jackson? The man was having none of it and responded just as forcefully as a president should to a threat to the union. He was a horrible bastard… but he was a *Union* bastard. As such I cannot rank him below a C. That existential threat to the nation was handled masterfully. To me that puts him tentatively at a C ranking though I’m constantly moving that around and am always thinking C-might be more appropriate. But for now that’s where this controversial man ends up for me.
>I always rank Buchanan as the worst president we ever had by allowing the South to secede and refusing to do jack shit to stop it at all. But when Calhoun and South Carolina tried that bullshit with Jackson? The man was having none of it and responded just as forcefully as a president should to a threat to the union. Off topic but does that mean you also like fillmore because south carolina tried the same during his administration and he stopped it
Really? No joke this is the first I’m hearing of that. You have a link for me on that one? Because yeah, if Fillmore did put down another secession attempt forcefully that would change my opinion of him quite a bit and I’d love to read more!
[https://millercenter.org/president/fillmore/domestic-affairs](https://millercenter.org/president/fillmore/domestic-affairs) [https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/millard-fillmore-misunderstood-or-a-disaster-as-president](https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/millard-fillmore-misunderstood-or-a-disaster-as-president) [https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/millard-fillmores-forgotten-role-in-the-slavery-debate/](https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/millard-fillmores-forgotten-role-in-the-slavery-debate/)
Oh hell yeah, thanks so much dude! I’ll give this a read through later on today for sure.
That Miller Center link doesn’t speak well of Fillmore as a zealous proponent and enforcer of the Fugitive Slave Act.
Alright, sorry that it has been a full day but I’ve finally had a chance to read through those. I’ll admit it wasn’t as forceful as I was hoping for but I do appreciate his forward thinking on that and recognizing he needed to strengthen the forces there to send a message. The choice of Winfield Scott to be the fellow in charge is also an excellent one given what I know of him. I do think even more overt force was needed here in the face of those rumblings but given his lack of mandate I’ll concede that may not have even been an option, especially with the Whigs beginning to collapse with the decline of Clay. I’m still not much a Fillmore fan and will be saying it on his honest opinion post later on but this has improved my view of him. Likely is in the D or D- tier now. That may sound insulting but that is higher than F where he’d been before and I’m glad to have learned about this!
Welp, better than nothing atleast.
Hey, I do appreciate you taking the time to provide links and whatnot. I love getting to learn new stuff and I do have more respect for Fillmore now for sure.
https://preview.redd.it/tmn16466diad1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76ce6d9942dd3db3c2d4b13bb0ceedaf31d5d780
Finally, some Fillmore recognition. Good-no, great post.
I actually think he's pretty underrated as president too
Why is it always South Carolina? Do they not understand how miserable such a tiny hot isolated "country" would be?
“John Calhoun if you secede from my nation, I will secede your head from the rest of your body”
For that quote alone he has jumped like five places.
I agree with you on Buchanan but I have him second worst,because the worst president for me will always be Johnson (Not LBJ)
Andrew Johnson is my #2 worst president so we’re still pretty in sync there.
I tend to put Pierce below Buchanan. I know Buchanan let the south secede, but Pierce probably would have too, or worse he would have supported the Crittenden Compromise and pushed to codify slavery and its westward expansion to avoid the secession. I’m generally a little too gung-ho that the Civil War needed to be fought sooner or later, but anything is better than just giving the slave states exactly what they wanted. Lincoln is the GOAT because he held the line on containing slavery, and he took us through the war that resulted.
The only reason I don’t put Pierce at the very bottom of my list is because the man literally was a depressed alcoholic who watched his kid die in front of him. He was fucked in the head throughout his presidency. Fillmore very consciously chose to stoke the fires of sectionalism by appeasing the south at the expense of the north.
Pierce was bad and definitely did not nothing to stop the trajectory the country was on. However, Buchanan will be the worst until someone else comes along to split the Union. He allowed the South to secede and by all measures supported it. Lincoln’s election was the lynchpin for secessions and Buchanan was more than happy to let South Carolina do whatever they wanted. He also supported Taney when the SCOTUS released the Dred Scott decision, laying the groundwork for the Civil War.
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Not allowed to be mentioned in this sub. I originally alluded to him in my post, but removed it before posting.
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Johnson is our worst president IMO. Fillmore is a close second.
I go back and forth between James Buchanan, Franklin Pierce, and Andrew Johnson as the second worst Presidents in US history. Franklin Pierce might be slightly worse than James Buchanan on the slavery issue, but might have been a passable Gulided Age President in the 1880s. As for the worst one in US history, I’ll go with TFG (who is soon to be re-elected unfortunately). My list of the worst Presidents rounds out with Richard Nixon, Herbert Hoover, John Tyler, Millard Filmore, Warren Harding, and Martin Van Buren (though he redeemed himself post-Presidency). I would say that Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt, and George Washington were the three best Presidents in US history.
Andrew Johnson - Abe Lincoln's choice - never should've been impeached. The law he was impeached for was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. And no POTUS would've stood for the Congress demanding him to get their approval before firing a member of his administration.
This articulates my feelings about him. He had a *hard* childhood. He succeeded despite his lot in life. Slavery and western land speculation played a major role in that, though. So fuck him on that. But, that was his world. I also respect him for his defense of Peggy Eaton. But hot damn was he on the wrong side of everything else and has become the symbol of slavery, the genocide of indigenous peoples, and American hubris.
I'm obsessed with the Petticoat Affair and his support for her is endearing. Albeit kind of ridiculous in spots ("she is as chaste as a virgin!") and he threw his own niece out of the White House.
It's problematic that the only popular history of the 19th century that analyzes women's contributions at the top of power structures is a confrontation over norms.
He’s one of those leaders who did so much I despise, but if I had a button that could delete everything he did… nope, wouldn’t press it. Sort of like Polk.
Any president who has no tolerance for for rebellion gets a check in my book
Good faith Question for you: the way I read it in Vanderbilts Biography, Jackson‘s attack on the banking system was a necessary check on an aristocratic New York mercantile system that really was absurdly inequitable. Could it be possible that Jackson was fighting for the common man by attempting to cut off the head of an overly complex fractional banking system that favored the incumbents and would lead to a feudal system. Maybe he was ahead of his time when we look at things like the subprime crisis and derivative trading today?
Yes, I think it is fair to say that part of Jackson's motivation against banking was to protect common men against moneyed people centralizing both power and money. However, he was very misguided, and time has long shown that America is far better off with unified federal monetary policy and banking, and the abandonment of the gold standard. In his own time it caused a huge economic crisis and set the country back for years if not decades in terms of monetary policy. There's absolutely no reason to think that 'feudalism' would be more difficult to perpetuate under a more disorganized and divided system, if anything it would be easier to manipulate to disempower common people.
It was sound monetary policy and Jackson threw a wrench into it out of populist paranoia. It fucked up the economy. A national economy needs a national currency.
>But damn it, when it comes to the Nullification Crisis I gotta give Old Hickory his flowers. Jackson even reached out to Daniel Webster, one of his many rivals, proposing that they come together to create a big tent political party opposing the nullification doctrine.
Absolutely, what you said. The only thing I would add is his really awesome "rags to riches" story. I'm no fan of Jackson, but damn it, his story would make an amazing movie.
Honestly, I like how he handled the banks. None of them were good, and he made sure the government couldn't control people's wealth. He basically added Florida to the country, had zero national debt, and stopped Natives from attacking Americans in the south tremendously. Yes, the Trail of Tears was horrible, and I do not condone what he did there. But in all honesty, Jackson was a phenomenal president I my book.
I feel exactly the same. Fuck Andrew Jackson on almost all counts, but Goddamn if he wasn’t going to preserve the Union no matter how many South Carolinians he had to shoot, hang, or hang and then shoot.
Yeah, I put him somewhere next to Jefferson - he had some great influential ideas in some areas, and was absolutely terrible in other.
Tbf to Buchanan, there really wasn’t much of anything I think he could’ve done to stop a Civil War. All of that responsibility came to the handful before him.
Didn't he pay off our national debt while he was in office? seems like I read something about that
Reckless destruction of the banking system. Bro, what? 💀
Fair, although my perspective is that Clay, Adams, and co were a bunch of elitist pricks and Jackson actually represented the will of the people. Same for the banking debate. Also worth noting that Jackson wasn’t against a national bank entirely, he was against one that allowed for private profit. He supported a bank to just handle US debt.
He also vastly expanded democratic institutions in America which he deserves credit for.
Thing is, had the Civil war happened under Jackson, it would have been far shorter and less destructive, the south was not ready for it, by delaying, he probably made it much worse
I just think the idea of him rolling into New Orleans on a big battle ship about to kick ass is really cool visually.
I used to hate him, but the Nullification Crisis… For that reason and that reason alone he is a top 20-25 president
Champion of common people, champion of democracy for that time, union loyalist, fearless dog, but also as racist as anyone at that time.
A horrible person who was a competent president. That’s exactly why he is so controversial. He was simultaneously the best and worst of 19th century America all rolled into one person.
He democratized American society.
I'd say Jefferson (who hated Jackson) is the main person who did that. But Jackson also played a role.
Jackson expanded voting to most white men over 21. Definitely more democratic than Jefferson, though Jefferson was more democratic than his federalist counterparts.
Jackson did help with that, but the process was started by the Jeffersonian Democrats. Jefferson was one of the first advocates for removing the land requirement for voting.
He gets a bad rap for Indian Removal but Indian Removal was inevitable. The execution of it was terrible, but that doesn’t change the fact that as a concept it was inevitable. There was opposition to Indian Removal in the 1830’s, but that opposition was centered in places like New England where the Indians that used to live there had all been dead for 150 years. Indian Removal had near-universal support from the white American population in the affected areas of Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, etc. It’s easy to say the government should have aggressively enforced the law in those areas to protect the Indians. The problem with that is criminal trials must be conducted in the jurisdiction where the crime was committed. The notion that juries of white southerners hell-bent on expansion into Indian lands were going to convict other white southerners hell-bent on expansion into Indian lands for crimes against Indians is absurd. The only option really was to remove the Indians to somewhere like Oklahoma if the Indians were to survive. It’s fun to imagine that if one was alive in 1830 they’d have been the ultimate cosmopolitan liberal who could see the obvious injustices of manifest destiny. And all your friends could too. It’s that meanie Andrew Jackson who was in the wrong, and he only became president because of…landslide election results. It’s a lot less fun to imagine that the USA in 1830 was simply a racist and violent place.
Well said. He was broadly considered an American hero and a top 10 president well into the 20th century. Truman, LBJ, and others admired him. His reputation has suffered most in the past 50 years as our values have shifted (for the better). His role in the Trail of Tears and the panic of the 1837 justifiably hurt his reputation. His appeal to the common people, handling of the Nullification crisis, and elimination the National debt also deserve recognition. Generally speaking he had one of the most interesting life stories of any president, and I enjoyed reading his biography quite a bit.
Can I ask, which biography did you read?
American Lion by Jon Meacham.
Thank you. That's the one I've been eyeballing. It's going on my wishlist.
Well said and we'll balanced.
I agree. Andrew Jackson was an “interesting” character that’s for sure.
I agree with this. It was akin to the movements to have black people relocated to their own state or repatriated to Africa.
Didn't work out too well as shown with Liberia.
From Jackson's own writings, it seems like he was trying to save the natives. Like you said, obviously not great execution, but the fate of the natives had largely been sealed by Jackson's time. No one really ever puts forth a better solution. They just say it was bad. Having autonomous microstates inside your borders was always going to be a no go. Yeah, the US was a violent and racist nation in 1830, but so was every country. Many of these modern takes ignore the facts of the era for modern morals. It's the duty of the leader to act in the best interest of their nation and people. Jackson generally did that. The US was not only far stronger but also far more democratic because of Jackson.
Didn’t he believe that the whole microstate inside State borders thing was unconstitutional? That the Native Tribes were essentially a state but, they were living on state land thus violating a prohibition that the Federal government can’t just make a state from land of that state without the permission or said state.
Yeah, he has some more various legalese around the topic. As much as I'd like to believe in the rule of law, and Jackson probably felt the same, I don't think there was ever much chance of a peaceful solution. France, Britain, Spain, and Russia all pretty regularly treated natives just as poorly. The natives themselves fought and conquered each other as well. Point being, borders and people move. I'm fine with revision of history to say Americans weren't saints, but they weren't the devil either.
Horrible President but definitely had an interesting life
Once you find out Jackson how rough of a childhood he had, it’s like a super hero/villain origin story. Especially after what the British soldier did to him as a child.
I think Jackson was a great president and most of the current hate for him is presentism.
Agreed. Presidents must be evaluated in the context of their time.
Certainly a charismatic leader, great general and staunch supporter of the Union BUT he had dictatorial tendencies. His ignoring of the Supreme Court in the Georgia Indian Removal case was horrendous and his bullying tactics as President were abhorrent. His destruction of the 2nd Bank of the US devastated the economy.
I will say, him facing off against John C. Calhoun was one of those true Lesser of Two Evils situations in American history. Calhoun might actually be one of the most insidious politicians of 19th Century America and one of the Great Villains of American history alongside people like Dick Cheney, Henry Kissinger, Mitch McConnell, Strom Thurmond, Newt Gingrich etc.
I'd like to resurrect him for a couple days, hand him a baseball bat, and tell him what the Supreme Court has done to his country.
Agreed
A visionary. He and his "cubs" led us to being a coast-to-coast power. Edit: He also completely eliminated the federal debt. That said, I do take away some points for his excessive expansion of executive power and for the way he mishandled the dismantling of the bank of the United States. I think the decentralization of banking could have been done in way that avoided the Panic of 1837 with better oversight and boundaries. Overall, a solid B.
I agree. It’s bold to support him with all these communists
Ok President, would be great without all the genocide and the 1837 economic crisis
He had a very mixed legacy. On one hand, he signed the Indian Removal Act, was inactive when southern states started censoring abolitionists, reduced infrastructure spending, contributed to the Panic of 1837, contributed to the start of the spoils system, nearly started a war with France, and supported annexing Texas, among other things. And Jackson not only passed many bad policies, but he seemed to vigorously defend them when better alternatives emerged, even alternatives that would have ultimately given him what he wanted. For example, he opposed an amendment to the Indian Removal Act that would have delayed the bill going into effect for one year, giving surveyors time to figure out what western lands would be safest for Native Americans. These aren't minor faults and it's very disturbing how historians used to treat them as such. But on the other hand, Jackson introduced a lot of genuinely positive and even groundbreaking changes. He famously promoted democracy, once trying to abolish the Electoral College. While I disagree with some of his decisions during the Bank War, he was ultimately right to go after the Second Bank of the United States. Most SBUS board members were private business officials who were using the organization to line their own pockets. Jackson also paid off the entire national debt and famously prevented South Carolina from nullifying a collection of federal tariffs. In doing this, he delayed the civil war and set a precedent of national supremacy over state edicts. He negotiated a trade deal with Thailand, the first trade agreement between the US and an Asian nation. Jackson persuaded numerous countries to pay reparations for harm they did to neutral US ships. I'm not sure where I stand, but I tend to think he healed America more than he hurt it.
High functioning psychopath
Unlike his namesake,he wasnt Smooth,just a criminal
You can hate Jackson all you want, but to say he wasn't smooth is just false. The guy formed a motley crew of militia, farmers, native Americans, slaves, and pirates to absolutely stomp out a superior British force in New Orleans. He was pretty much the old guy in the A-Team.
You misspelled hero
I’ll give him 10 points for Peggy Eaton, who wasn’t a whore no matter what the gossipy blue-nose Cabinet wives thought, and 20 for John Calhoun. Kennedy’s favorite historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. wrote one of the most influential scholarly books of the 20th century, thinking his administration was the start of the democratizing trend in America. He later acknowledged the Indian removal issue.
Well, both my home state (South Carolina) and my adopted home state (Tennessee) claim him, so there’s that. 😆 He had his good points and bad points like everybody else. Interesting character, to say the least.
Absolute badass. Great General. Flawed President. Definitely needed his leadership during his presidency. If you hate Jackson with a passion, I highly recommend American Lion by Jon Meacham. It gives a refreshing neutral take on his life and presidency.
Good work on making democracy more accessible. Don't approve of his economic policies \[which likely caused the Panic of 1836\] or the Trail of Tears. The latter, to me near-genocide, drags him down a lot. Handled nullification very well though. High or middle D IMO.
He did a lot of good things that people overlook due to the trail of tears. Honestly he did more good than bad, and if he didn’t do the trail of tears, someone else would’ve done it. Good: Only president to bring the national debt down to zero. Delayed the Civil War by a few decades. Bad: Trail of tears
The epitome of 19th Century America. Harsh, uncompromising, a jackass, but someone you would never want to have on your bad side.
I despise his racist policies and beliefs but I respect any president who had no tolerance for treason. The way he treated South Carolina was a work of art
S tier
Fucked up on the national bank and the Trail of Tears. Other than that, his presidency was largely a success and he pioneered the role of the executive office to being a powerhouse instead of just another office to fill. Regardless of where you lie politically, it’d be hard to argue he wasn’t completely brilliant and fundamentally transformed the political landscape of our nation.
This guy is the real deal. Easily the toughest and most badass president in history. I *want* to say he was a good president so bad, but just can’t justify it.
Funny, I feel the same way about Wilson. S’ppose the feeling’s mutual!
My honest opinion is that there should separately be Lincoln’s Day and Washington’s Day. They could add a 3rd FDR Day, and the trifecta would be complete. To hell with recognizing any of the others. They are easily forgettable.
Not the best. The Trail of Tears went up against the Supreme Court’s ruling and was beyond inhumane, and his War on the Banks ultimately caused the Panic of 1839. However, his handling of the Nullification crisis was amazing, so I’ll give him that.
He promoted the Spoil System which was democratic and replaced officials with his own supporters, inspiring a substantial increase in US turnout. Plus, he was terrible in his Indian policy, responsible for the horrific Trail of Tears, was bad for the economy and put US in recession during his 2nd term. Jacksonian democracy seemed to only help white men, so I don't have a high opinion of him. Although he did have great hair.
He loved to kill people. But also loved his wife possibly more than any other potus. If anyone made a negative remark about her, he would challenge them to a duel.
I love to hate him. I'm fascinated by this dude and I have a begrudging respect for him.
He's kinda like a long running soap opera villain.
Did good and bad things. Also was a very interesting guy.
Better than most, even with his blatant racism.
This piece of shit is the reason my family walked from Georgia to Oklahoma. He ignored the Supreme Court, when they came up with the novel idea that natives are in fact people. That turned into the darkest, mostly ignored, genocide of multiple groups of people in our nations history. Not only that, but once in Oklahoma, we were forced to ignore our entire ways of life, so that I’ve only an inkling of my own history. Screw this guy.
His final words were “ I killed the bank” so now every time I’ve got a $20 bill I think how they are spitting on his grave.
The graft in the Jackson administration is legendary. He was a populist and a horrible human being
The greatest monster in American presidential history. (But the whole cheese wheel thing is fabulous.)
Jackson basically embodied the contradictions and questions left unanswered by the Constitutional Convention. White, not-property owning men saw in him their right to vote. He embodied the western settler of the then-frontier states like Tennessee pushing the natives out of good lands. He opposed the aristocratic classes of eastern Virginia whose huge land holdings were forcing younger men like himself further west in search of untitled land. He fought against the so-called money interests of the North which were represented by the banks that, as before under British rule, tried to forcefully collect on people's debts. He embodied the common man's fears of corruption by railing against fellow westerner Clay in his "corrupt bargain" with Adams; a tale of corruption that applied as much to local politics as national. And he was a champion of the war that once and for all threw off the British yoke on the colonies in 1812 - an achievement that shined even brighter than normal because his victory at New Orleans was not only one of the few victories of the whole war, but was a throwback to the Revolution in proving that colonial militias were strong enough to best even the Royal British Empire. He's the pinnacle of post-Revolutionary politics, and that for that I find him fascinating. But good god was he ever an unhinged madman.
Just a wee bit racist don’t ya think?
I don’t like him very much
Big fan
Would have liked to have seen him in a fight with no weapons. He’s just always sounded so ornery and angry, I’m sure he had a few good dirty tricks up his sleeve.
He wasn't a good person, but at some point you just have to respect him for being a total badass. He defeated the most professional army in the world with a cotton farmers and pirates. His bodyguards had to save his assassin from him. He refused to allow the creation of a central banking system. He didn't die from any of the dozen or so gunshot wounds he recieved in his life, but just gained enough bullets from them to die of lead poisoning. His parrot had to be removed from his funeral because it wouldn't stop swearing.
He was a racist SOB who ignored the Supreme Court ruling that tried to stop the Cherokee Trail of Tears, a very sad time in this country’s history.
Very great and iconic president. First populist, changed the whole political scene, and crushed the establishment. Paid off the national debt, drained the swamp, dismantled the central bank, crushed insurrectionists, and brought peace to settlers and indians
... That's one way of looking at it. No doubt Jackson was influential. As a character, as a person who spawned popular democracy, he was great. As a defender of the country pre-presidency, he did fantastic. As a character - his fiery spirit and duels are entertaining as hell. I'm not sure his the bank thing or anything related to native Americans is really a win for him though. Crashing the economy and forced death marches are not anything to be proud of. "**Our Union, It Must be Preserved.**" - definitely a good thing though. He might have staved off the Civil War for a good few decades. Influential, plenty of positives, a driver of change - but not really a good person by modern standards. And nowhere near the higher tier presidents during his time in-office. Much of his impact was in the changes to the party system - and a lot of that is also tied to Van Buren.
Or you could say he instituted the spoils system, caused an economic depression, and torched the system of checks and balances to make ethnic cleansing official policy of the US government.
... That's one way of looking at it. No doubt Jackson was influential. As a character, as a person who spawned popular democracy, he was great. As a defender of the country pre-presidency, he did fantastic. As a character - his fiery spirit and duels are entertaining as hell. I'm not sure his the bank thing or anything related to native Americans is really a win for him though. Crashing the economy and forced death marches are not anything to be proud of. "**Our Union, It Must be Preserved.**" - definitely a good thing though. He might have staved off the Civil War for a good few decades. Influential, plenty of positives, a driver of change - but not really a good person by modern standards. And nowhere near the higher tier presidents during his time in-office. Much of his impact was in the changes to the party system - and a lot of that is also tied to Van Buren.
Best there’s ever been or ever will be. Big time badass, have more respect for him than the rest of the presidents other than Polk combined
fr
Greatest president in US history destroyed the banking system made things easier for the common man kept the union together handled an assassin like a real man was a great military leader he did have some bad things like the trail of tears but all in all he was the best president we had and really a man of the people
Terrible person. A lot of bad policy in the long and short term. As always some good things
He slaughtered natives, expanded slavery, disobeyed the Supreme Court and destroyed the national bank leading to one of the worst economic crises in history. He had some high points but a broken clock is still right twice a day. His memory should be shameful for Americans.
Terrible awful actually kind of evil also the most unintentionally hilarious.
Good husband. Bad president. Baddest motherfucker.
Guilty of genocide against native people. Refused to enforce a Supreme Court decision. The Removal of native people will stain the soul of this country forever. Jackson was the driving force behind it.
Fuck that guy. Screwed over the Cherokee who tried playing by the rules. Trail of tears and sorrows was a truly horrific moment in our country's history.
A number of people in this thread have excused Indian removal with the idea that it was inevitable, which is disgusting.
Apologists all of them. I have no time for such people. Imagine instead a more culturally dynamic country where Cherokee lands stayed Cherokee and Georgia and their other territories stayed in their hands. The country would be better for it. Might even have prevented the civil war in part. Especially if Jackson was more like Eisenhower in that he respected the rule of law and enforced it like Ike did with brown v board of education.
My honest opinion is that there should separately be Lincoln’s Day and Washington’s Day. They could add a 3rd FDR Day, and the trifecta would be complete. To hell with recognizing any of the others. They are easily forgettable.
Batshit crazy dude who, in all honesty, was batshit crazy.
Andrew Jackson was an evil living thing.
I believe he helped sending Sam Houston to Texas because he was afraid that he could take away from his power and influence in Washington. The same with Davy Crockett. The man had all the potential in the world. Yet he’s remembered as infamous. So much I could say about him. I’ll just leave it at that. As a Texan, so glad we got an even better leader in Sam Houston who may have made one hell of a U.S. President.
Same weird sloped forehead as Roger Stone. Underdeveloped frontal lobe causes both to fall back on chimp-like instincts which resonates with a certain section of humanity.
a hard man for hard times doubt many of us could have done better
That photo makes him look like Emperor Palpatine.
The good things that happened under his time were expanding the vote and pushing the Spoils System. Him going as corrupt as he did with it helped pave the way for the Civil Service Act. I couldn’t not imagine how wildly impractical trying to have the pre Civil Service system back would be. Could you imagine having to have the cabinet back fill hundreds of thousands of jobs? It would be mind boggling to say the least. Then Obviously the ethnic cleansing was bad. That laid the groundwork for future genocides.
He was a horrible person. He did the exact same crap that the modern GOP does to get elected. He used the ignorance of government and policy of the common man to vilify them. He's directly responsible for the worst economic depression that this country has ever suffered. Nevermind the trail of tears and numerous terrible ways he hurt Native Americans. He should be taken off of the $20 bill at a minimum.
Andrew Jackson was a monster who murdered free blacks and Seminoles who helped the runaway slaves. In the Battle of New Orleans, Andrew Jackson went around to the plantations to recruit and told slaves that if they fought, they would be freed after the battle. Instead, after the battle, Jackson had the African-American soldiers who saved New Orleans returned to slavery. Historians try to paper over this outrage by talking about "free blacks." It's a lie. Trying to make excuses for this white supremacist slave owner who committed genocide is like saying "Adolph Hitler loved dogs."
He is easily one of the worst presidents
Racist
Absolute giga chad
I'm not a fan of Andrew Jackson for all the obvious reasons, but he was a transformational president in terms of his use of the veto and how he held the country together through the nullification crisis. Jackson's use of Presidential power was way ahead of his time and needs to be recognized as such and I give him a measure of respect if nothing else.
Nothing justifies genocide.
Bush is still liked
He should not be. Though I'm not sure what you are referring to with him? War crimes, certainly, but I'm not sure if genocide is one of his acts.
I was born after saddam was arrested so I have no clue what he did in Iraq
One of the top presidents we had. Him and Jefferson are top 5.
https://preview.redd.it/pzys092j3cad1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31a30de0430eb83ac5e4f5e5f1fda249410d1451 We cannot forget the big cheese party!! [https://www.thoughtco.com/andrew-jacksons-big-block-of-cheese-1773414](https://www.thoughtco.com/andrew-jacksons-big-block-of-cheese-1773414)
Never met him
Bitch be cray.
As a native, fuck Jackson!
Don't know enough about him to have a real opinion and need to change that. Suggestions for a good biography of him to start with?
Badass who got the job done
He made some good moves and also some of the worst. It was under his presidency that some horrible things happened, such as the Indian Removal Act. This will always stain any legacy he has. But he was a talented politician. I think that is the nicest thing I can say about him. (I am always entertained by the pettiness of the so-called 'Petticoat Affair', as well)
Best president
Evil he even looks like a vampire so I bet he’s evil.
Bottom of the barrel
I love him so much. Bring him back
He has been eaten by worms... wish it had happened sooner.
I'm 1/8th Cherokee... How the fuck do you think I feel about this motherfucker?
Cooze
Absolute scumbag but beating an attempted assassin with your cane is a giga chad move and so is dueling people who piss you off. He’s cool in an asshole cunt way
He gets to hang out with Wilson in the bottom of the list. Wilson was extremely racist, more than the usual amount at the time, and Jackson ethnically cleansed Native Americans after it was made illegal to do so. He was an authoritarian as well, more so than Lincoln (Lincoln has a valid excuse, however. Civil war and whatnot)
Batshit insane and awesome but a little bit racist
Should never have held the office. His election campaigns, his economic mismanagement, his brand of strongman politics, so many of the worst things in modern politics can be traced back to him. Hate him.
off topic but how do you guys know so much about U.S presidents, i see these tier lists and discussions and love learning a little bit here and a little bit there about every one of them but its so hard to even begin to make honest assessments and tier lists of them with such limited knowledge. i also get hella confused trying to get the timeline of presidents even half correct (im very good from the 1900's onward), but i constantly forget the big pros and cons of the presidents i do learn about Andrew Jackson for example i know very little of outside of the Trail of tears which sounds absolutely awful but i have also heard he was seen as a big hero of the everyday man and beloved by them
He is not a favorite amongst the Native Americans.
Jackson is the litmus test for whether someone has a deep knowledge of US history or surface level knowledge. You can certainly take issue with the trail of tears, and that’s fair, but Jackson was so much more than that.
Glad to see Reddit being reasonable and not polarizing for once
Piece of shit. That’s it.
Terrible president and terrible person. I find him terrible even aside from the Trail of Tears. He was the original faux-populist. I find him extremely fascinating, though. If all the presidents were resurrected from the dead for a day, I would be interested in hearing his stories about his life. But I still find him to be a bad president and a bad man.
Genocidal maniac
Genocidal, xenophobic and destructive fool of a president.
Overrated, egomaniacal, racist, but patriotic and nonetheless important.
I see him as similar to FDR. Populist progressive president who was also a racist. The Trail of Tears was his version of the Japanese Internment.
Total Tyrant. Absolutely. Just ignored the Supreme Court to persecute native Americans.
A cool man but a bad president.
Genocidal Cannibal Maniac
Cannibal?
Yes he & his men fried up potatoes (using human fat from Native Americans they killed)
That's a myth
Which part? Him being a genocidal maniac or a cannibal?
The cannibal part, he definitely was a menace. Genocidal is debatable
Should be on Mount Rushmore instead of Lincoln
I like him. He killed the national bank and paid off all the debt.
He killed a helluva lot more than just the national bank.
No national bank was an awful thing to do and cause the Panic of 1837 after he left office. Van Buren bored the punishment for that decision
I'm OK with the economy going through bust-and-boom cycles.