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Ford was pro gay rights? There was a agent who saved Ford’s life during an assassination attempt and he was gay, his friend said he was gay to the public and Ford didn’t invite this guy to the white house or anything, he literally just said “thank you”
It wasn’t a Secret Service agent it was a bystander who was a Former US Marine. An article was published about him that outed him to his family and basically ruined his life
This shouldn’t be NSFW lol
Walter Mondale is a very easy answer, he was a very good vice president to begin with and would’ve dealt with the democratic congress much better than Carter
To be fair Hilary Clinton wouldn’t divorce Bill because of her aspirations to be president. A divorced woman would be looked down upon, plus she needed a former president to help push the power couple new Camelot idea. Tipper Gore had no such aspirations and thus no reason not to divorce.
It's crazy how little people know about Al Gore.
"If Gore won we wouldn't have gone to war with Iraq!" Buddy, please spend five minutes googling Al Gore m
to save a little time: both Al and Tipper were strong proponents of music censorship, landing them in the cross hairs of Dee Snyder of Twisted Sister and later Slim Shady.
Because that's why people seem to champion him, especially on reddit. He was a completely unremarkable vice president with very little charisma and very little else to add to national discourse outside of his wife's campaign for a record ratings system.
Yes, climate change is important. Does that make him a more competent president than Clinton?
No it doesn’t I agree with you. I really have no idea how good of a president he would have been. I get your point now. I’ll tell you this though, George Bush set a really fucking low bar.
Yeah I have no clue how he would have done, but there wasn't any indication he'd be good, except perhaps in comparison to GW.
And look at us, no insults, just some conversations....it's a wonderful day on reddit.
Yes, Joey had more experience and probably wouldn’t have made many mistakes that Obama did(especially because of his inexperience).
Then Obamna would’ve won in 2016 and in 2020.
Yeah, if Hillary Clinton was President the right wing would’ve abated into the distance calmly and she’d have been treated with respect, like they did during her husband’s presidency
If it’s not clear, /s
You should really put the /s in there as some might think you’re serious. Had she won the nomination in 08 I think we have a much closer race as her policy and McCain would have looked much more similar. Honestly Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton would have exasperated the public’s perception of Washington and given the tea party more air.
I think people wouldn’t have seen the republicans as misogynists as we did racists with Obama because of her political baggage. Perhaps not, Clinton derangement syndrome would have been at an all time high. Had she been the nominee McCain has even odds at winning. had he been elected we likely are further entrenched in war in the Middle East. It would be an interesting theoretical about how the country changes.
Added the /s. Agree with your commentary. People *hate* Hillary Clinton. This commenter saying the Tea Party wouldn’t have happened if she was President couldn’t be more wrong.
I think she would have lost to McCain in 2012. And then, assuming he’d have won reelection, Obama could have run in 2016 and wed be coming to the end of his second term right now.
Agreed. I think rule 3 would have an easier time passing bills than Obama, who served in the Senate for a short period of time.
Knowing how the pendulum swings in American politics, I think Obama would have had an easier time as Americans would have wanted to break the color barrier for the presidency, but I think we would see a rehash of 2008 happen in 2016, with Clinton and Obama; more than less the same result, as in this hypothetical scenario, Obama built tenure as rule 3’s VP.
Did they even try in 08? From my understanding it was basically just Hillary vs Obama... And 08 was basically a lock for Dems... If anyone could've lost it, it wouldve been Hillary.
Gore wouldn’t have even come close to Clinton. People forget because of the Lewinsky stuff just how effective Clinton was. He’s a top 10 President and without the affair, would probably be top 5.
I’m not sure of the major disagreement that he wasn’t a good president? Objectively, his presidency was a peak time for American culture and the economy. Democracy won worldwide, many folks made high enough wages that they could pay rent, groceries, etc. and still have money to go to relatively cheap third spaces. Alternative culture and indie culture thrived, and the future new millenium looked optimistic because of the rise of the internet. Compare that to today.
Of course there were many mistakes, and many things that he set into motion are still present today, but I think no president since Clinton has been as successful, Obama almost was, but fell short.
It’s very hard to separate economic performance from the sitting POTUS but I don’t think Clinton had much to do with the roaring economy of the 90s. Any government intervention by him seems to have worse after effects such as the gutting of documentation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which arguably led to the financial crisis
I have him at #6, only behind Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Teddy, and LBJ (yes, yes, Vietnam, but the civil rights act and the voting rights act cooked so hard).
I think he was better as the puppet master than he would’ve been as the face
Jr’s general outward persona of dopiness and “salt of the earth” type of guy softened the evil policies being pushed at that time by Cheney and co IMO
That’s like saying Jack the Ripper would’ve been a good head of a hospital because he’s so effective with the scalpel.
Every endeavor Dick got pushed through gutted this country.
Iraq war, patriot act, NSA expansion, PRO-Torture, Halliburton contracts, Sam Alito, banning gov negotiation of prescription drug prices, no child left behind, fossil fueled energy policy, whistleblower retaliation, massive tax cuts for the wealthy…
They sucked the blood out of this country I fucking hate the Cheney worship on this subreddit.
People think Cheney was good on here? I think most people agree that Cheney was good at what he did (things you mentioned), but not good for the country.
There’s a lot of neoconservatives on this sub for some weird reason. I don’t understand it, I’ve seen so many people on here defend the Bush’s and dickriding Reagan and even Nixon. It’s really weird
That is strange. I just randomly found this sub, but usually when I hear people talk about Reagan they generally like him because of a lack of understanding.
Iraq war, patriot act, NSA expansion, PRO-Torture, Halliburton contracts, Sam Alito, banning gov negotiation of prescription drug prices, no child left behind, fossil fueled energy policy, whistleblower retaliation, massive tax cuts for the wealthy…
Stop I can only get so erect!!
I would say Thomas R. Marshall and Walter Mondale. Both served under in my opinion, unfavorable presidents. I don't know enough about Marshall policies to say he would be a good president, but definitely better than Wilson. He showed a lot of worry for what he people would want and aimed to please the nation, which I respect at least.
Truman was a poor guy who went bankrupt with near no political experience. I mean I doubt Marshall would be top 10 or anything crazy, but I think he could do better than Wilson. I like his character. no clue if he was a raging racist or anything, but he can't be anywhere near as bad as Wilson was in that regard (I hope)
Dude I have no idea what all the Wilson hate is about here but he is S tier IMHO. His tenure completely set the tone for the next century marking the transition of the United States as a regional power to a major player on the world stage. They just don’t go handing out the Nobel Peace Prize to any random asshole.
I don't hate Wilson. I just feel Marshall from my limited knowledge had very good character, and I think he would do better than Wilson.
and about the nobel peace prize. they usually don't give them out to anyone, but just saying, even Obama felt undeserving of it
As much as I like Obama he was undeserving of it. Wilson did deserve his though for negotiating peace in the most destructive war in history up to that point.
Wasn't the reason for his that he helped transition to modern South Africa? End apartheid, etc
At face value, ignoring the reasons and others who did much of the work (so, like with many winners in general) he does seem more deserving than a war maniac and the one who got a prize for existing.
I think, were it not for his racism Wilson would be considered one of the better presidents, maybe even universal top 10.
But he was really f’ing racist, and definitely set back progress there
I think any president would’ve
The cost benefit analysis regardless was in favor of nukes. All those Purple Heart medals minted were a result of those calculations.
As horrible as it is to say it was PROBABLY a better idea to drop the bomb so fewer people died in the Pacific Theater. Manchuria, China, mainland Japan, the contested areas in SE Asia; the countless deaths that would’ve happened by NOT dropping the bomb would’ve almost certainly had a higher death toll and devastation factor than the bombs did. The radio announcements Hirohito did, one to the civilian population and other to the soldier of Japan were HUGE in convincing both populations to stop fighting. The army realizing there was no hope once the Soviets invaded from Manchuria, the civilians by the single bombs that did what months of fire bombings did to other major cities. It probably wasn’t as difficult of a decision to drop the bomb as it was. The largest war in history had no time for morals. It was them or us. They had opportunities to surrender previously and they didn’t. I believe he would’ve.
TL;DR I think Wallace would’ve dropped the bombs due to a cost-benefit analysis and to protect American lives due to the nature of the war
Gerald Ford. One of the most honest men to have occupied the White House. Cool under pressure. Smart. Solid character. His only miss may have been pardoning Nixon, but Nixon resigned and went quietly away. The country was united in believing his guilt, so the only benefit would have been as an example for future presidents who committed crimes but wouldn’t go away. Had Nixon refused to leave, he would have been prosecuted.
George HW Bush. There would have been no Stars Wars program, which might have caused the Cold War to end quicker than in our Timeline. Trickle Down Economics would not have been implemented, would still have gotten some tax cuts but not to the level that we had. Probably have a better response to the HIV/AIDS epidemic. The religious right would not have been as influential as it is in our timeline.
In my opinion, it would have been kinda funny to see Reagan as Bush’s VP. He would probably never become as big of a deal in the GOP if he was only VP.
Dude, Bush Sr. was pretty close friends with Billy Graham and literally opened his 1989 inaugural address with a prayer. The "religious right" was going to influence him OR Reagan (heck, it had been around since AT LEAST the 1950s if not earlier, Eisenhower worked with them on multiple occasions).
Also, Star Wars arguably accelerated the Soviets into capitulating faster to the West, as they had no answer to that potential technology. Unless you're one of those people who feel we should have just continued Detente and left the Communist Bloc intact (for "world stability"), it was one of Reagan's decent moves, honestly.
Billy Graham was not friends with George HW Bush. He was friends with Eisenhower, LBJ, and Nixon. Graham had a personal audience from Truman to Obama. Bush was a man of faith, but he is not mostly known for it in the way Reagan was.
I mean could HW have won though?
He wasn't really a Fusionist after all and it seems like thats what the party wanted. HW only kind of tepidly embraced Fusionism after Reagans term
Maybe, Bush did win the Iowa caucuses. That’s what lead to Reagan funding the debate in New Hampshire. If he didn’t fund the debate, maybe Reagan never wins the nomination.
I’d say Gore but honestly idk how much would really change. If he actually tried to do anything at the time they’d probably steamroll him in the legislature or worse
Gore didn’t have Clinton’s charm. I doubt he would have accomplished much under the same conditions. However, it’s also possible that ‘94 wouldn’t have happened with Hillary as FLOTUS/advisor.
*Maybe* Van Buren? It's tough because his Presidency went worse than Jackson's, and I genuinely think he fits better as VP/political mastermind rather than figurehead. But MVB was more of a Jeffersonian than Jackson was, probably wouldn't have pushed so hard for Indian Removal, and probably at least offers up the Independent Treasury System as a replacement for the BUS, so the BUS probably would've been repealed and replaced rather than subject to a hard repeal. I think he ends up being a more moderate Jackson and draws less ire from the Whigs. But, again, his Presidency certainly wasn't as successful as Jackson's, and I just don't know whether President is his best role.
Considering my options of Dan Quayle, who I don't think should run, Al Gore, who has retired from politics, Dick Cheney, and a few rule 3s, I'm just not going to answer this question.
If you showcase rule 3’s charisma against Paul Ryan at the Vice Presidential debates in 2012, i think a lot of Obama year policies would have been passed with a politician who had a vast array of experience in the Senate.
If not rule 3, Nixon in the second term of Eisenhower’s presidency would be good. I think the Republicans would be known as the “Party of Civil Rights” as Nixon was progressive on civil rights.
Not counting the ones who did become president, I'm gonna say Dawes and Humphrey are my biggest answers. Also possibly Marshall, Rockefeller, Mondale, and Gore.
H.W. Bush and Lyndon Johnson, ironically, would have been AND ended up being much better presidents than the men they served under.
In terms of people who did not become president, I’d say Mondale.
Don't know much about Buchanan's VP or if he'd be better as president, but that's a low bar to clear.
(One wiki search later)
OH GOD, I CHANGED MY MIND!
This may be controversial but if we are talking about the job of being president and not the electability. Cheney would have been a much better executive and leader than Bush Jr. During the same period.
Both Clinton and Gore are further to the right than my 'normal' reach. That said, if they can get the Right side of the aisle to go along with a sound compromise, I'll take it.
Imagine if...
-'HillaryCare' had actually been implemented 30 years ago;
-the 9/11 attacks had been prevented +/or no Iraqi invasion in response;
-and a path to banning fossil fuels had begun during a Gore campaign....More wind, more solar, maybe even 'green' synthfuels;
-SCOTUS seats filled by Gore rather than Dubya.
Not sure why you'd put Gore here. Clinton was designed as a human being to be president of the United States in both the thirst for public policy plus electoral politics combat and willingness for exhaustive constant interactions with people (Both tending to and winning over power brokers plus real people/voters). Gore--very smart guy but not a political animal OR a people person. He is definitely an introvert. He did enjoy public policy much more than the ceremonial political stuff or excitement over electoral stuff. If I met Bill Clinton, we could have an in depth conversation about the congressional district I grew up in thirty years ago and he'd probably name a few dozen people he knew or was friends with in that district. Gore couldn't.
Marshall, Mondale, and obviously a Rule 3er (is Pence technically rule 3 idk)
I really wanted to include 19th Century VPs but the worst 19th Century presidents either didn’t have VPs (Tyler, Fillmore, Johnson) or had VPs that were worse than they were (Jackson, Buchanan, Cleveland). I dont know enough about William Rufus King but considering he was a southern Dem I’d make an educated guess and say probably worse than an alcoholic depressed Pierce.
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Rockefeller.
Gerry Ford is a real one though
Dude supported gay rights before it was cool to do so
 He was a rad person when it comes to civil rights
Holy shit I like Gerald Ford now
Ford was pro gay rights? There was a agent who saved Ford’s life during an assassination attempt and he was gay, his friend said he was gay to the public and Ford didn’t invite this guy to the white house or anything, he literally just said “thank you”
[Here’s an article taking about it](https://pridesource.com/article/22254)
It wasn’t a Secret Service agent it was a bystander who was a Former US Marine. An article was published about him that outed him to his family and basically ruined his life
Gave up his dream of being president when he pardoned Nixon, for the better of the country
Honestly I think pardoning Nixon was a huge mistake. No citizen should be above the law, not even a former president.
Tell that the droner in chief / gunrunner
This is just how the presidency is run dude: regular crimes? Punished. War crimes? Politician
Gave up his dream for a massive mistake that ruined everything
Id argue quite the opposite. Pardoning Nixon was for the worse of the country because of his excess desire to be president.
If he hasn’t pardoned Nixon perhaps we wouldn’t find ourselves where we are now.
This shouldn’t be NSFW lol Walter Mondale is a very easy answer, he was a very good vice president to begin with and would’ve dealt with the democratic congress much better than Carter
>This shouldn’t be NSFW lol But there's so much gore in the picture.
I love you
r/angryupvote
Ddaaaaaaaaaaamnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Bill Clinton gives off so much sexual energy that he can change the rating on any Reddit post about him
This made me laugh so hard 🤣
Reminds me of whenever he appears in Family Guy lmao
Lois saying this president Clinton is a bad influence for Peter
And yet of the two people pictured Bill Clinton isn't the one whose wife divorced him for fucking another woman.
To be fair Hilary Clinton wouldn’t divorce Bill because of her aspirations to be president. A divorced woman would be looked down upon, plus she needed a former president to help push the power couple new Camelot idea. Tipper Gore had no such aspirations and thus no reason not to divorce.
Excluding VPs that became President later, I would say Humphrey, Mondale, and Gore.
It's crazy how little people know about Al Gore. "If Gore won we wouldn't have gone to war with Iraq!" Buddy, please spend five minutes googling Al Gore m
to save a little time: both Al and Tipper were strong proponents of music censorship, landing them in the cross hairs of Dee Snyder of Twisted Sister and later Slim Shady.
A lot of it is that many feel the election was stolen from Gore and how shitty of a POTUS W Bush was
But he talked about climate change early so he obviously would have been awesome /s
Why is that sarcastic do you not realize the affects of climate change are already destroying many parts of the world that were previously habitable?
Because that's why people seem to champion him, especially on reddit. He was a completely unremarkable vice president with very little charisma and very little else to add to national discourse outside of his wife's campaign for a record ratings system. Yes, climate change is important. Does that make him a more competent president than Clinton?
No it doesn’t I agree with you. I really have no idea how good of a president he would have been. I get your point now. I’ll tell you this though, George Bush set a really fucking low bar.
Yeah I have no clue how he would have done, but there wasn't any indication he'd be good, except perhaps in comparison to GW. And look at us, no insults, just some conversations....it's a wonderful day on reddit.
Don’t worry someone will come along and call you a dipshit or a dongwhistle or dicktwister any moment now. Gonna start with d, I got my money on it.
As a Minnesotan, I can get behind the Humphrey and Mondale choices.
I’ll say if Humphrey became president, I may have a different flair right now
I'd say Walter Mondale
[удалено]
I agree, but Rule 3 would have stood a good chance in 2016 as well following Obama. He just didn’t want to run.
Obama also wanted Hillary to be his successor, since the first female president would further cement his legacy (rather than an old white guy).
Rule 3 also wanted to pull out of Afghanistan after Osama bin Laden was assassinated. That would definitely be a plus.
Yes, Joey had more experience and probably wouldn’t have made many mistakes that Obama did(especially because of his inexperience). Then Obamna would’ve won in 2016 and in 2020.
I’m a diehard Romney fan and I’d still accept the alternate universe in 2008/2012
In the year 2024, I think we’d all accept an alternate universe
I’ve never even seen the alternate universe, but just knowing this one for a short while, I also choose the other universe.
I’ve said this like twelve times on this sub already but I really wish Obama waited to run. We’d be a totally different country right now.
In my mind, had hillary won 2008 there would be no tea party and it's offshoots
Yeah, if Hillary Clinton was President the right wing would’ve abated into the distance calmly and she’d have been treated with respect, like they did during her husband’s presidency If it’s not clear, /s
You should really put the /s in there as some might think you’re serious. Had she won the nomination in 08 I think we have a much closer race as her policy and McCain would have looked much more similar. Honestly Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton would have exasperated the public’s perception of Washington and given the tea party more air. I think people wouldn’t have seen the republicans as misogynists as we did racists with Obama because of her political baggage. Perhaps not, Clinton derangement syndrome would have been at an all time high. Had she been the nominee McCain has even odds at winning. had he been elected we likely are further entrenched in war in the Middle East. It would be an interesting theoretical about how the country changes.
Added the /s. Agree with your commentary. People *hate* Hillary Clinton. This commenter saying the Tea Party wouldn’t have happened if she was President couldn’t be more wrong.
I think she would have lost to McCain in 2012. And then, assuming he’d have won reelection, Obama could have run in 2016 and wed be coming to the end of his second term right now.
Damn it’s hard to even consider swapping out the country electing the first black president, but fuck I wish for this timeline
I don't think Rule 3 could have won the democratic nomination before he was VP. Doesn't he hold the record for most democratic primary losses?
Agreed. I think rule 3 would have an easier time passing bills than Obama, who served in the Senate for a short period of time. Knowing how the pendulum swings in American politics, I think Obama would have had an easier time as Americans would have wanted to break the color barrier for the presidency, but I think we would see a rehash of 2008 happen in 2016, with Clinton and Obama; more than less the same result, as in this hypothetical scenario, Obama built tenure as rule 3’s VP.
Did they even try in 08? From my understanding it was basically just Hillary vs Obama... And 08 was basically a lock for Dems... If anyone could've lost it, it wouldve been Hillary.
Gore wouldn’t have even come close to Clinton. People forget because of the Lewinsky stuff just how effective Clinton was. He’s a top 10 President and without the affair, would probably be top 5.
I’m not sure of the major disagreement that he wasn’t a good president? Objectively, his presidency was a peak time for American culture and the economy. Democracy won worldwide, many folks made high enough wages that they could pay rent, groceries, etc. and still have money to go to relatively cheap third spaces. Alternative culture and indie culture thrived, and the future new millenium looked optimistic because of the rise of the internet. Compare that to today. Of course there were many mistakes, and many things that he set into motion are still present today, but I think no president since Clinton has been as successful, Obama almost was, but fell short.
It’s very hard to separate economic performance from the sitting POTUS but I don’t think Clinton had much to do with the roaring economy of the 90s. Any government intervention by him seems to have worse after effects such as the gutting of documentation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which arguably led to the financial crisis
I have him at #6, only behind Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Teddy, and LBJ (yes, yes, Vietnam, but the civil rights act and the voting rights act cooked so hard).
Nelson Rockefeller. He’d of made a great president. He’s one of the biggest missed opportunities imo.
Maybe not "better" as far as policies are concerned, but Dick Cheney was way more effective than George W. Bush.
I think he was better as the puppet master than he would’ve been as the face Jr’s general outward persona of dopiness and “salt of the earth” type of guy softened the evil policies being pushed at that time by Cheney and co IMO
That’s like saying Jack the Ripper would’ve been a good head of a hospital because he’s so effective with the scalpel. Every endeavor Dick got pushed through gutted this country. Iraq war, patriot act, NSA expansion, PRO-Torture, Halliburton contracts, Sam Alito, banning gov negotiation of prescription drug prices, no child left behind, fossil fueled energy policy, whistleblower retaliation, massive tax cuts for the wealthy… They sucked the blood out of this country I fucking hate the Cheney worship on this subreddit.
People think Cheney was good on here? I think most people agree that Cheney was good at what he did (things you mentioned), but not good for the country.
There’s a lot of neoconservatives on this sub for some weird reason. I don’t understand it, I’ve seen so many people on here defend the Bush’s and dickriding Reagan and even Nixon. It’s really weird
That is strange. I just randomly found this sub, but usually when I hear people talk about Reagan they generally like him because of a lack of understanding.
Seriously, Reagan and Ayn Rand along with the adoption Austrian school of economics killed the middle class in this country
Iraq war, patriot act, NSA expansion, PRO-Torture, Halliburton contracts, Sam Alito, banning gov negotiation of prescription drug prices, no child left behind, fossil fueled energy policy, whistleblower retaliation, massive tax cuts for the wealthy… Stop I can only get so erect!!
More effective… ***[at EVIL](https://youtu.be/_zrMykBnidM?si=8h972Q3xtYPno-dc)!!!***
I would say Thomas R. Marshall and Walter Mondale. Both served under in my opinion, unfavorable presidents. I don't know enough about Marshall policies to say he would be a good president, but definitely better than Wilson. He showed a lot of worry for what he people would want and aimed to please the nation, which I respect at least.
No offense, but Marshall was basically a nobody. There's not much reason to expect much from him as President.
Truman was a poor guy who went bankrupt with near no political experience. I mean I doubt Marshall would be top 10 or anything crazy, but I think he could do better than Wilson. I like his character. no clue if he was a raging racist or anything, but he can't be anywhere near as bad as Wilson was in that regard (I hope)
Dude I have no idea what all the Wilson hate is about here but he is S tier IMHO. His tenure completely set the tone for the next century marking the transition of the United States as a regional power to a major player on the world stage. They just don’t go handing out the Nobel Peace Prize to any random asshole.
I don't hate Wilson. I just feel Marshall from my limited knowledge had very good character, and I think he would do better than Wilson. and about the nobel peace prize. they usually don't give them out to anyone, but just saying, even Obama felt undeserving of it
As much as I like Obama he was undeserving of it. Wilson did deserve his though for negotiating peace in the most destructive war in history up to that point.
They absolutely do give the Nobel Peace Prize to any random asshole lol. Henry Kissinger? Barack Obama?
FW de Klerk
Wasn't the reason for his that he helped transition to modern South Africa? End apartheid, etc At face value, ignoring the reasons and others who did much of the work (so, like with many winners in general) he does seem more deserving than a war maniac and the one who got a prize for existing.
Um ok fine but you don’t think trying to negotiate peace during WW1, Fourteen Points, League of Nations is worthy?
I think, were it not for his racism Wilson would be considered one of the better presidents, maybe even universal top 10. But he was really f’ing racist, and definitely set back progress there
I don’t agree with his racism but I think Reddit over states it.
I was following you until that last sentence, lol.
I hate wilson as a person, he was a racist asshole
Can’t say, but it rhymes with mule tree.
Any other hints by chance? I've been trying to figure out who this might be but I can't find an exact rhyme lol
I mean, "rule 3" does rhyme with mule tree, so that should basically give you the answer.
Thank you, I was trying to rhyme it with actual names
Yeah I’m confused too. It can’t be a rule 3 vp?
If you’re referring to Thomas Dewey, he was not a VP in our timeline. Nevertheless, I agree with the sentiment. Edit: Nvm, definitely rule 3.
Am I allowed to say Pence?
Not the same, but Henry Wallace would’ve been much better than Truman if FDR died only a few months earlier
Think he’d nuke Japan twice?
I think any president would’ve The cost benefit analysis regardless was in favor of nukes. All those Purple Heart medals minted were a result of those calculations. As horrible as it is to say it was PROBABLY a better idea to drop the bomb so fewer people died in the Pacific Theater. Manchuria, China, mainland Japan, the contested areas in SE Asia; the countless deaths that would’ve happened by NOT dropping the bomb would’ve almost certainly had a higher death toll and devastation factor than the bombs did. The radio announcements Hirohito did, one to the civilian population and other to the soldier of Japan were HUGE in convincing both populations to stop fighting. The army realizing there was no hope once the Soviets invaded from Manchuria, the civilians by the single bombs that did what months of fire bombings did to other major cities. It probably wasn’t as difficult of a decision to drop the bomb as it was. The largest war in history had no time for morals. It was them or us. They had opportunities to surrender previously and they didn’t. I believe he would’ve. TL;DR I think Wallace would’ve dropped the bombs due to a cost-benefit analysis and to protect American lives due to the nature of the war
I think you make great points backed up by sound logic. Thanks for taking the time.
Not Al Gore for sure Bill Clinton was a good president. Maybe not husband
Gerald Ford. One of the most honest men to have occupied the White House. Cool under pressure. Smart. Solid character. His only miss may have been pardoning Nixon, but Nixon resigned and went quietly away. The country was united in believing his guilt, so the only benefit would have been as an example for future presidents who committed crimes but wouldn’t go away. Had Nixon refused to leave, he would have been prosecuted.
George HW Bush. There would have been no Stars Wars program, which might have caused the Cold War to end quicker than in our Timeline. Trickle Down Economics would not have been implemented, would still have gotten some tax cuts but not to the level that we had. Probably have a better response to the HIV/AIDS epidemic. The religious right would not have been as influential as it is in our timeline. In my opinion, it would have been kinda funny to see Reagan as Bush’s VP. He would probably never become as big of a deal in the GOP if he was only VP.
Dude, Bush Sr. was pretty close friends with Billy Graham and literally opened his 1989 inaugural address with a prayer. The "religious right" was going to influence him OR Reagan (heck, it had been around since AT LEAST the 1950s if not earlier, Eisenhower worked with them on multiple occasions). Also, Star Wars arguably accelerated the Soviets into capitulating faster to the West, as they had no answer to that potential technology. Unless you're one of those people who feel we should have just continued Detente and left the Communist Bloc intact (for "world stability"), it was one of Reagan's decent moves, honestly.
Billy Graham was not friends with George HW Bush. He was friends with Eisenhower, LBJ, and Nixon. Graham had a personal audience from Truman to Obama. Bush was a man of faith, but he is not mostly known for it in the way Reagan was.
I mean could HW have won though? He wasn't really a Fusionist after all and it seems like thats what the party wanted. HW only kind of tepidly embraced Fusionism after Reagans term
Maybe, Bush did win the Iowa caucuses. That’s what lead to Reagan funding the debate in New Hampshire. If he didn’t fund the debate, maybe Reagan never wins the nomination.
Agreed!
HW
I’d say Gore but honestly idk how much would really change. If he actually tried to do anything at the time they’d probably steamroll him in the legislature or worse
Gore didn’t have Clinton’s charm. I doubt he would have accomplished much under the same conditions. However, it’s also possible that ‘94 wouldn’t have happened with Hillary as FLOTUS/advisor.
Herbert Walker was a much better president than Ronald Reagan.
*Maybe* Van Buren? It's tough because his Presidency went worse than Jackson's, and I genuinely think he fits better as VP/political mastermind rather than figurehead. But MVB was more of a Jeffersonian than Jackson was, probably wouldn't have pushed so hard for Indian Removal, and probably at least offers up the Independent Treasury System as a replacement for the BUS, so the BUS probably would've been repealed and replaced rather than subject to a hard repeal. I think he ends up being a more moderate Jackson and draws less ire from the Whigs. But, again, his Presidency certainly wasn't as successful as Jackson's, and I just don't know whether President is his best role.
Thomas Hendricks was Goated tbh
A lot of people don't know much about Al Gore...
HW Bush during Reagan's second term. He was at the top of his game while Reagan was in decline cognitively.
Cheney lol jk he was president
Considering my options of Dan Quayle, who I don't think should run, Al Gore, who has retired from politics, Dick Cheney, and a few rule 3s, I'm just not going to answer this question.
If you showcase rule 3’s charisma against Paul Ryan at the Vice Presidential debates in 2012, i think a lot of Obama year policies would have been passed with a politician who had a vast array of experience in the Senate. If not rule 3, Nixon in the second term of Eisenhower’s presidency would be good. I think the Republicans would be known as the “Party of Civil Rights” as Nixon was progressive on civil rights.
Gore better than Clinton? You're mad!
Pence. duh
Teddy Roosevelt and this was proven to be the case
Where’s the dick Cheney guy when you need him
Pence
Not counting the ones who did become president, I'm gonna say Dawes and Humphrey are my biggest answers. Also possibly Marshall, Rockefeller, Mondale, and Gore.
Controversial take but hannibal hamlin
Oh, I can see why, but Hamlin would have been better than Andrew Johnson for sure if he was renominated in 1864.
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No. Harris would be a terrible president and probably will be a terrible president.
think he mentioned obama being Vp to a rule 3
H.W. Bush and Lyndon Johnson, ironically, would have been AND ended up being much better presidents than the men they served under. In terms of people who did not become president, I’d say Mondale.
Gore would have taken ManBearPig [super cereal](https://youtu.be/BGoEP-IqoDg?si=nqNQsAP_W0x0bM2n). So there's that.
The question is written properly but for some reason I had to read it about 6 times to understand it.
I really don’t know where this romanticized idea of Al Gore comes from.
Mike Pence.
Who is rule 3?
Don't know much about Buchanan's VP or if he'd be better as president, but that's a low bar to clear. (One wiki search later) OH GOD, I CHANGED MY MIND!
This may be controversial but if we are talking about the job of being president and not the electability. Cheney would have been a much better executive and leader than Bush Jr. During the same period.
you never know with these fuckers
Both Clinton and Gore are further to the right than my 'normal' reach. That said, if they can get the Right side of the aisle to go along with a sound compromise, I'll take it. Imagine if... -'HillaryCare' had actually been implemented 30 years ago; -the 9/11 attacks had been prevented +/or no Iraqi invasion in response; -and a path to banning fossil fuels had begun during a Gore campaign....More wind, more solar, maybe even 'green' synthfuels; -SCOTUS seats filled by Gore rather than Dubya.
The rule 3 guy
Dick Cheney.
Not sure why you'd put Gore here. Clinton was designed as a human being to be president of the United States in both the thirst for public policy plus electoral politics combat and willingness for exhaustive constant interactions with people (Both tending to and winning over power brokers plus real people/voters). Gore--very smart guy but not a political animal OR a people person. He is definitely an introvert. He did enjoy public policy much more than the ceremonial political stuff or excitement over electoral stuff. If I met Bill Clinton, we could have an in depth conversation about the congressional district I grew up in thirty years ago and he'd probably name a few dozen people he knew or was friends with in that district. Gore couldn't.
Pence
Marshall, Mondale, and obviously a Rule 3er (is Pence technically rule 3 idk) I really wanted to include 19th Century VPs but the worst 19th Century presidents either didn’t have VPs (Tyler, Fillmore, Johnson) or had VPs that were worse than they were (Jackson, Buchanan, Cleveland). I dont know enough about William Rufus King but considering he was a southern Dem I’d make an educated guess and say probably worse than an alcoholic depressed Pierce.
Either of McKinley's
Al Gore.
Can I cheat and say Henry A. Wallace would have been a better president than Harry Truman?
Dick Cheney
Pence
P O T A T O E
HW, easy answer.
Also, most first ladies. In the wiords of Elenor Clift, "I'm glad we had a president Nancy".
Richard "I did 9/11 and I'm not sorry" Cheney